Jumper cables

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dbr
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by dbr » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:51 pm

Do those Li ion battery packs actually work if stored in the car at below zero F. I have one but the documentation advises not to store in either hot or cold conditions. Naturally the time there will be a problem is going out to a car at -20F overnight.

iamlucky13
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:15 pm

For jumper cables, shorter and heavier is better to reduce voltage loss over the wires, but shorter than about 8' and you'll have trouble reaching even if you can get the cars front-to-front.
dbr wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:51 pm
Do those Li ion battery packs actually work if stored in the car at below zero F. I have one but the documentation advises not to store in either hot or cold conditions. Naturally the time there will be a problem is going out to a car at -20F overnight.
Their current output drops significantly at low temperatures, but it also does so for your car's battery or for the lead-acid battery jump starters. Most lithium ion batteries are acceptable to store down to -20 C (-4 F), but should not be charged when below 0 C (32 F). Take them in the house and let them warm up for an hour before charging if it's freezing out.

Note that most of these little packs supplement a weak battery, but might not start a car with a dead battery, and I doubt any of those little packs come anywhere near their claimed amperage (which is almost certainly peak A, not CCA). Here's an example of a comparison test of one of the heavy, lead acid AGM jump starters with a new lithium ion model. The video is slow paced, but I picked it because both are reputable brands (Jump-n-Carry is made by Clore Automotive).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsuwfAmXU0M

The "1000A" lithium ion unit couldn't even provide 100A at an acceptable voltage. I did see another test where the user deliberately shorted an off-brand unit and got over 500A for a second or two, but it then quickly failed and the batteries vented.

The lead acid unit tested at an estimated 400 cold cranking amps based on voltage under the 100A load, and it looks like it's probably been around a few years.

Age is another factor to be aware of. Lithium ion batteries lose their charge more slowly than lead-acid batteries, but they age more when stored at full charge, losing capacity, and far more critically in this application, suffering increased internal resistance that lowers their current output. Lead acid batteries last their longest when stored at full charge.

Aging also accelerates at high temperatures, but that applies to both lithium-ion and lead acid batteries.

My AGM lead acid jump starter recommends charging every 6 months. I had been thinking I probably need to replace the battery, since it's at least a decade old, and went several years with no charging when it sat in the garage forgotten about for a while, but when my wife's car battery wore out a couple months ago, it was still able to start it twice at around 0 Celsius before we made it to the store to get a new battery.

Actually, I probably should still take the jump starter to the auto parts store to test, as that experience was jumping a weak battery, not a dead one.

That's for my wife's car. Personally I keep a set of jumper cables in my car, and have used them for myself once, and to help others 2-3 times over the last decade or so.

Overall, I'd say buy the product you will actually keep in your car, but my preference is cables (simply for low cost) over a lead-acid jump-starter over a lithium-ion jump starter.

Also, if you buy a lithium-ion jump starter, buy from a reputable seller: That means NOT Amazon unless it is a known brand like Noco or Schumacher, sold and shipped by Amazon or the manufacturer, not a third party seller. This is exactly the sort of product Amazon does an almost criminally bad job of policing their third party sellers on, and since defective lithium ion batteries sometimes spontaneously catch fire, they are not a product to try to save $20 on, in my opinion.
Last edited by iamlucky13 on Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kenkat
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Kenkat » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:22 pm

I’m 3-0 on starting cars with a Li-ion jump pack. I do also have jumper cables in each of the cars just in case.

ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:13 pm

Somebody has already done a pretty good evaluation of jumper cables...
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best- ... emergency/

(Scroll about halfway down.)

...and come to this conclusion:
After scrutinizing the specs of dozens of sets and having an electrical engineer analyze three top-rated models, we’d buy the AAA Heavy Duty 16-foot 6 Gauge Booster Cables.

ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:18 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:33 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:28 pm
As for those that had bought the battery pack, does it work after a few years? Doesn't the battery has a limited life like 2 years? Or, it is different from the battery that we used on our laptop.
Mine is 5 or 6 years old and going strong. Battery life has a lot to do with your usage model. A laptop battery is under far more stress than a jump starter battery. It is charged infrequently and spends its time slowly discharging in standby mode.
Yes, battery packs for cars are charged/discharged much less frequently than laptops. I would expect them to last much longer than a laptop battery.

That said, I consider battery packs for cars to be an option in addition to having jumper cables. I would never only have a battery pack. Jumper cables are cheap and will work in a number of edge case conditions where a battery pack might have trouble. Better safe than sorry.

texasdiver
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by texasdiver » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:21 pm

The one time I tried to use a jump starter portable battery pack in winter it did not have enough cranking juice to turn over a V6 engine.

As for Jumper cables. Twice I have had to jump cars that were parked head-in into parking spaces and only a long set of cables was able to reach. It isn't so easy to push an automatic transmission car with dead engine out of a parking space to jump it.

These are the ones I most recently bought. 20 ft, 2 gauge heavy duty cables: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016YJ4NBW/

gpburdell
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by gpburdell » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:56 pm

Peculiar_Investor wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:09 pm
Another supporter of a portable jump starter. BTW there is a previous topic portable jump starters with lots of useful information and experiences.

Our personal choice is the NOCO GB40  Boost Plus. It has served us very well, including getting a car with a totally dead battery up and running. I've set a calendar alert to remind me to recharge it periodically. Originally set for every 3 months but since relaxed to every 6 months based on experience to date.
I have this same one and have used it several times over the last couple years and it has always worked.

random_walker_77
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by random_walker_77 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:31 am

fortfun wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:28 pm
Skip the cables! For around $70, just get an emergency charger. Store it in your glove box. Stays charged for quite a long time and can easily be charged. Doubles as a phone charger. I think my days of using jumper cables are officially over! I have this one:
https://www.amazon.com/DBPOWER-18000mAh ... WER&sr=8-1 Works great!
I've a similar lithium-ion jumpstarter, and they're great. However, if you're in a hot part of the country, don't keep them in your car during the summer. It's a bad idea to keep lithium batteries in the car, where it can easily get hotter than 140F. That's asking for a fire to happen...

I also keep a set of 20ft, 4 gauge jumper cables in each car.

gnujoe2001
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by gnujoe2001 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:47 am

portable battery jump pack + jumper cables.

Especially on newer cars, be mindful on where you store them in the vehicle --rear cargo might be an awfully inconvenient place if its electronic release hatch with a dead battery.

Daryl
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Daryl » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:55 am

gnujoe2001 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:47 am
portable battery jump pack + jumper cables.

Especially on newer cars, be mindful on where you store them in the vehicle --rear cargo might be an awfully inconvenient place if its electronic release hatch with a dead battery.
Most cars probably have a manual override for the electronic hatch release. In newer Civics for example, there is a manual key that can open the driver's side door. The next step involves being somewhat flexible in that I'd have to crawl over the center console, between the two front seats and into back seat. There is a decorative/trim piece right behind the left rear passenger's seat which can be removed, revealing the emergency rear hatch release.

I have roadside assistance because that sounds like a pain in the rear. I also carry a set of jumper cables so that I can be the "good Samaritan"

dbr
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by dbr » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:59 am

gpburdell wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:56 pm
Peculiar_Investor wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:09 pm
Another supporter of a portable jump starter. BTW there is a previous topic portable jump starters with lots of useful information and experiences.

Our personal choice is the NOCO GB40  Boost Plus. It has served us very well, including getting a car with a totally dead battery up and running. I've set a calendar alert to remind me to recharge it periodically. Originally set for every 3 months but since relaxed to every 6 months based on experience to date.
I have this same one and have used it several times over the last couple years and it has always worked.
Did it work after being stored in the car below 0 F?

Thanks

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Nate79
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Nate79 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:32 am

While I also recommend these battery portable jump starters I too tried to use one on a dead battery in the cold and it did nothing. If you watch some youtube videos of them in action it's clear that they don't all work well in all conditions and they greatly over estimate the cranking amps. Even the videos trying to use some well known brands did not go so well.

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Peculiar_Investor
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Peculiar_Investor » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:40 am

dbr wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:59 am
gpburdell wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:56 pm
Peculiar_Investor wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:09 pm
Another supporter of a portable jump starter. BTW there is a previous topic portable jump starters with lots of useful information and experiences.

Our personal choice is the NOCO GB40  Boost Plus. It has served us very well, including getting a car with a totally dead battery up and running. I've set a calendar alert to remind me to recharge it periodically. Originally set for every 3 months but since relaxed to every 6 months based on experience to date.
I have this same one and have used it several times over the last couple years and it has always worked.
Did it work after being stored in the car below 0 F?

Thanks
Yes it did and we've used it to start a Lexus SUV in cold weather. I'm located in Calgary, AB, Canada and our winters are often very cold (i.e. later this week Calgary, Alberta 14 Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Network), hence the reason to carry a personal battery boaster device.

When I started the car with the totally dead battery, that was last September, so temperature was probably around 10 C (50 F).

For me the key is making sure you check the amount of charge and periodically re-charge it on a schedule that suits where you are located.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams

dbr
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by dbr » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:41 am

Peculiar_Investor wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:40 am
dbr wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:59 am
gpburdell wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:56 pm
Peculiar_Investor wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:09 pm
Another supporter of a portable jump starter. BTW there is a previous topic portable jump starters with lots of useful information and experiences.

Our personal choice is the NOCO GB40  Boost Plus. It has served us very well, including getting a car with a totally dead battery up and running. I've set a calendar alert to remind me to recharge it periodically. Originally set for every 3 months but since relaxed to every 6 months based on experience to date.
I have this same one and have used it several times over the last couple years and it has always worked.
Did it work after being stored in the car below 0 F?

Thanks
Yes it did and we've used it to start a Lexus SUV in cold weather. I'm located in Calgary, AB, Canada and our winters are often very cold (i.e. later this week Calgary, Alberta 14 Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Network), hence the reason to carry a personal battery boaster device.

When I started the car with the totally dead battery, that was last September, so temperature was probably around 10 C (50 F).

For me the key is making sure you check the amount of charge and periodically re-charge it on a schedule that suits where you are located.
Thanks

Luke Duke
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Luke Duke » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:20 am

I've got this on in my wife's Buick:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FTG9PBK/

I've got this one in my diesel truck, along with the longest, lowest gauge jumper cables that I could find:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JFJLP6/

The Clore jump starter started a guy's Tahoe after his cheap jumper cables wouldn't work with 3 other cars.

All of the products have come in handy over the years. I learned the value of good jumper cables when I was a teenager with an unreliable car.

mpnret
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by mpnret » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:33 am

I noticed some posters stating the jump starter wouldn't start a dead battery. A good number of these jump starters will not work on a completly dead battery. The built in protection needs to see some voltage to determine it is hooked up properly. Some of the jump starters have a button to bypass the protection for a completly dead battery. Anti Gravity XP-10 is one of these. I had mine a couple of years now and used it many times and it hasn't failed me yet. Even when I came up on someone trying to use jumper cables without success. This little thing turned the engine over fast and started it. It claims it will start a 7.3L diesel. Also the top rated one in Consumer Reports.
https://www.amazon.com/Antigravity-XP-1 ... B074VGWLF3
Last edited by mpnret on Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

texasdiver
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by texasdiver » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:43 am

Nate79 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:32 am
While I also recommend these battery portable jump starters I too tried to use one on a dead battery in the cold and it did nothing. If you watch some youtube videos of them in action it's clear that they don't all work well in all conditions and they greatly over estimate the cranking amps. Even the videos trying to use some well known brands did not go so well.
And remember, the inclement conditions that are most likely to produce a dead car battery are the most likely conditions in which you are going to need to use one of these jump starters. I'm not saying they aren't handy. But I would't use them to replace jumper cables which are pretty much guaranteed to work if they are hooked to a running car.

rich126
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by rich126 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:45 am

Make sure you do some research and use them properly. I've seen people using them incorrectly and it can be dangerous. Also don't skimp on the cheapest ones. I once had a set where if you weren't careful they would seriously scratch the car.

wrongfunds
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by wrongfunds » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:11 pm

The best BH approach would be to replace the 4 year old car battery pro-actively. It is one of the cheapest routine maintenance item on a vehicle at $2 per month or about 7 cents per day. You will drastically cut down on your "unscheduled" dead battery incidents.

madpunster
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by madpunster » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:02 pm

Just tried out the supercapacitor referenced by telemark which I REALLY wanted to work but it didn't. The problem was the power draw by the onboard electronics which hobbled the supercapacitor's ability to generate enough juice to crank the engine effectively. The particulars were a 9 year old original battery in a friend's Chrysler which had it's wipers on and fans on full blast. On the first start attempt, the dash lights flickered, the wipers crawled, and the receiver for the keyfob signal struggled mightily. The fans and interior lights coming on were the coup de grace. The starting voltage on the battery was ~4v, and had no problem getting the supercapacitor to 15.8v prior to the first attempt. I then recharged the supercapacitor to 15.8v using a 2A usb connection which allowed for 3 microscopic cranks of the engine via push button start with the voltage declining all the while like the market in 2007. Alas, this option probably works best for vehicles with minimal onboard electronics like say my 80's honda, but then again putting her in first and a push worked pretty well back then too.

iamlucky13
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by iamlucky13 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:56 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:11 pm
The best BH approach would be to replace the 4 year old car battery pro-actively. It is one of the cheapest routine maintenance item on a vehicle at $2 per month or about 7 cents per day. You will drastically cut down on your "unscheduled" dead battery incidents.
Most places that sell batteries will do a free load test that provides an estimate of cold cranking amps. These tests are usually fairly conservative (they want to convince you to buy a battery after all), but may help you get better value without much risk of being stranded.

In our mild climate, for example, we seem to get ~8 years out of a battery.

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telemark
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by telemark » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:16 am

madpunster wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:02 pm
Just tried out the supercapacitor referenced by telemark which I REALLY wanted to work but it didn't. The problem was the power draw by the onboard electronics which hobbled the supercapacitor's ability to generate enough juice to crank the engine effectively. The particulars were a 9 year old original battery in a friend's Chrysler which had it's wipers on and fans on full blast. On the first start attempt, the dash lights flickered, the wipers crawled, and the receiver for the keyfob signal struggled mightily. The fans and interior lights coming on were the coup de grace. The starting voltage on the battery was ~4v, and had no problem getting the supercapacitor to 15.8v prior to the first attempt. I then recharged the supercapacitor to 15.8v using a 2A usb connection which allowed for 3 microscopic cranks of the engine via push button start with the voltage declining all the while like the market in 2007. Alas, this option probably works best for vehicles with minimal onboard electronics like say my 80's honda, but then again putting her in first and a push worked pretty well back then too.
Thanks for posting that. It seems like a design flaw in the vehicle--you ought to be able to jumpstart the engine without running the windshield wipers--but the vehicle is what it is. Newer ones are probably even worse.

Starfish
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Starfish » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:36 pm

madpunster wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:02 pm
Just tried out the supercapacitor referenced by telemark which I REALLY wanted to work but it didn't. The problem was the power draw by the onboard electronics which hobbled the supercapacitor's ability to generate enough juice to crank the engine effectively. The particulars were a 9 year old original battery in a friend's Chrysler which had it's wipers on and fans on full blast. On the first start attempt, the dash lights flickered, the wipers crawled, and the receiver for the keyfob signal struggled mightily. The fans and interior lights coming on were the coup de grace. The starting voltage on the battery was ~4v, and had no problem getting the supercapacitor to 15.8v prior to the first attempt. I then recharged the supercapacitor to 15.8v using a 2A usb connection which allowed for 3 microscopic cranks of the engine via push button start with the voltage declining all the while like the market in 2007. Alas, this option probably works best for vehicles with minimal onboard electronics like say my 80's honda, but then again putting her in first and a push worked pretty well back then too.
The difference between crank current and electronics should be at least 10 times. Probably the capacitor is not large enough.
Did you disconnect the battery before doing this?

Starfish
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Starfish » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 pm

Trader Joe wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:24 pm
Jazztonight wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:58 pm
The set of jumper cables I keep in the trunk of my car mysteriously disappeared, and I want to replace them.

Your recommendations, please. My car is a 2001 Camry V6; the battery is under 2 years old. But this would be for emergency situations--mine or someone else's. I do not live or drive in a cold-weather area (anymore).

16' or 20'?
What gauge?

Thank you.
I recommend the cheapest jumper cables that you can find. Check Walmart.

You might be the king of bad advice on this forum, but maybe not everybody knows.
Buying cheap (=thin) cables is a big mistake because the voltage drop at max current makes them unusable. The car just won't start.

Yooper
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Yooper » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 pm

Starfish wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 pm
Trader Joe wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:24 pm
Jazztonight wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:58 pm
The set of jumper cables I keep in the trunk of my car mysteriously disappeared, and I want to replace them.

Your recommendations, please. My car is a 2001 Camry V6; the battery is under 2 years old. But this would be for emergency situations--mine or someone else's. I do not live or drive in a cold-weather area (anymore).

16' or 20'?
What gauge?

Thank you.
I recommend the cheapest jumper cables that you can find. Check Walmart.

You might be the king of bad advice on this forum, but maybe not everybody knows.
Buying cheap (=thin) cables is a big mistake because the voltage drop at max current makes them unusable. The car just won't start.
Trader Joe - This is NOT directed at you or your post, I'm just making a point for those trying to decide. Last winter a co-worker of my wife needed a jump. She had her cables out (a cheap pair) and we tried. Her car clicked. I did notice that a couple of the strands on her cables had worked loose from the clamps. I put mine on (2 gauge wire) and immediately it roared to life. To get the most juice transfer from battery to battery, you need all the copper you can get.

dbr
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by dbr » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:34 am

Yooper wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 pm
Starfish wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:39 pm
Trader Joe wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:24 pm
Jazztonight wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:58 pm
The set of jumper cables I keep in the trunk of my car mysteriously disappeared, and I want to replace them.

Your recommendations, please. My car is a 2001 Camry V6; the battery is under 2 years old. But this would be for emergency situations--mine or someone else's. I do not live or drive in a cold-weather area (anymore).

16' or 20'?
What gauge?

Thank you.
I recommend the cheapest jumper cables that you can find. Check Walmart.

You might be the king of bad advice on this forum, but maybe not everybody knows.
Buying cheap (=thin) cables is a big mistake because the voltage drop at max current makes them unusable. The car just won't start.
Trader Joe - This is NOT directed at you or your post, I'm just making a point for those trying to decide. Last winter a co-worker of my wife needed a jump. She had her cables out (a cheap pair) and we tried. Her car clicked. I did notice that a couple of the strands on her cables had worked loose from the clamps. I put mine on (2 gauge wire) and immediately it roared to life. To get the most juice transfer from battery to battery, you need all the copper you can get.
A Yooper would know.

random_walker_77
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by random_walker_77 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:47 pm

Yooper wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 pm
Trader Joe - This is NOT directed at you or your post, I'm just making a point for those trying to decide. Last winter a co-worker of my wife needed a jump. She had her cables out (a cheap pair) and we tried. Her car clicked. I did notice that a couple of the strands on her cables had worked loose from the clamps. I put mine on (2 gauge wire) and immediately it roared to life. To get the most juice transfer from battery to battery, you need all the copper you can get.
I agree w/ Yooper. The thicker the cables, the better. You're trying to transfer hundreds of amps of current, and this is where you need thick wire (lower gauge == better).

With cheap/thin jumper cables, you can't directly jump it but instead need to leave it connected for several minutes to try and charge the dead battery. With thick cables, you can just directly start the engine.

Jimmie
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Jimmie » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:56 pm

random_walker_77 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:47 pm
I agree w/ Yooper. The thicker the cables, the better. You're trying to transfer hundreds of amps of current, and this is where you need thick wire (lower gauge == better).

With cheap/thin jumper cables, you can't directly jump it but instead need to leave it connected for several minutes to try and charge the dead battery. With thick cables, you can just directly start the engine.
+1

With low voltages like 12 volts in an automotive system coupled with high current, the loss of power in a long run of thin cable is significant. The fact that power transmission lines are high voltage at lower current to reduce IR loss is no engineering accident. Don't break Ohm's Law. :D

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queso
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by queso » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:38 am

We have 2 of the jump starters as well as good old cables (an Antigravity and a Type S). I have successfully jumped an Accord multiple times in one day with the Antigravity, but haven't used the Type S (the same one above that everybody buys from Costco). I remove both of them from our vehicles and charge them once a month. A couple weeks ago the Type S wouldn't fully charge (4th light just kept blinking indicating charging even after several days plugged in). I reached out to Type S via email and they sent me a brand new one. Just posting this since I know a lot of BHs shop at Costco and have that Type S unit so if you do 1) make sure you register it via their website to get an extra year of warranty and 2) their customer service seems very good so if yours has any issues reach out and they should send you a new unit.

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wander
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by wander » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:13 pm

I got a battery starter jumper for my wife and demonstrate once for her. It saved her when I was on travel and the car didn't start. I however also have cable jumper in the trunk for worst case scenario.

whomever
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by whomever » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:44 pm

I'm in the 'both' camp.

Jumper cables aren't going to be dead because they discharged or some random electronic part failed.

OTOH, jumper cables aren't much good when you find your battery completely dead and you're the only car at a remote trailhead.

Replacing the car battery on a schedule is good advice as well, but FWIW the remote-trailhead incident where I used the LiON jumpstarter was the OEM battery on truck that was six months out of the factory door.

Luke Duke
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Re: Jumper cables

Post by Luke Duke » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:20 pm

Jimmie wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:56 pm
random_walker_77 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:47 pm
I agree w/ Yooper. The thicker the cables, the better. You're trying to transfer hundreds of amps of current, and this is where you need thick wire (lower gauge == better).

With cheap/thin jumper cables, you can't directly jump it but instead need to leave it connected for several minutes to try and charge the dead battery. With thick cables, you can just directly start the engine.
+1

With low voltages like 12 volts in an automotive system coupled with high current, the loss of power in a long run of thin cable is significant. The fact that power transmission lines are high voltage at lower current to reduce IR loss is no engineering accident. Don't break Ohm's Law. :D
False.
Go to the following website and see the voltage drop in the following scenarios:

Scenario 1 - Cheap Cables
Gauge = 6AWG
Type = Copper
Length = 12ft
Phase = DC
Voltage = 14V
Load = 300A

Scenario 2 - Good Cables
Gauge = 2AWG
Type = Copper
Length = 12ft
Phase = DC
Voltage = 14V
Load = 300A

If you increase the Amperage, the voltage drop is even more dramatic.

https://www.inchcalculator.com/voltage-drop-calculator/

Jimmie
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:05 pm

Re: Jumper cables

Post by Jimmie » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:33 pm

Luke Duke wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:20 pm
Jimmie wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:56 pm
random_walker_77 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:47 pm
I agree w/ Yooper. The thicker the cables, the better. You're trying to transfer hundreds of amps of current, and this is where you need thick wire (lower gauge == better).

With cheap/thin jumper cables, you can't directly jump it but instead need to leave it connected for several minutes to try and charge the dead battery. With thick cables, you can just directly start the engine.
+1

With low voltages like 12 volts in an automotive system coupled with high current, the loss of power in a long run of thin cable is significant. The fact that power transmission lines are high voltage at lower current to reduce IR loss is no engineering accident. Don't break Ohm's Law. :D
False.
Go to the following website and see the voltage drop in the following scenarios:

Scenario 1 - Cheap Cables
Gauge = 6AWG
Type = Copper
Length = 12ft
Phase = DC
Voltage = 14V
Load = 300A

Scenario 2 - Good Cables
Gauge = 2AWG
Type = Copper
Length = 12ft
Phase = DC
Voltage = 14V
Load = 300A

If you increase the Amperage, the voltage drop is even more dramatic.

https://www.inchcalculator.com/voltage-drop-calculator/
What exactly is false about my statement?

Thicker cables carry higher current with less voltage loss. And longer runs make it worse. This is even more significant when voltage is lower and current higher, assuming power (voltage x current) is constant. That's why power transmission lines are higher voltages.

Perhaps you misunderstood my post.

Luke Duke
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:44 am
Location: Texas

Re: Jumper cables

Post by Luke Duke » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pm

Jimmie wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:33 pm
Luke Duke wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:20 pm
Jimmie wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:56 pm
random_walker_77 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:47 pm
I agree w/ Yooper. The thicker the cables, the better. You're trying to transfer hundreds of amps of current, and this is where you need thick wire (lower gauge == better).

With cheap/thin jumper cables, you can't directly jump it but instead need to leave it connected for several minutes to try and charge the dead battery. With thick cables, you can just directly start the engine.
+1

With low voltages like 12 volts in an automotive system coupled with high current, the loss of power in a long run of thin cable is significant. The fact that power transmission lines are high voltage at lower current to reduce IR loss is no engineering accident. Don't break Ohm's Law. :D
False.
Go to the following website and see the voltage drop in the following scenarios:

Scenario 1 - Cheap Cables
Gauge = 6AWG
Type = Copper
Length = 12ft
Phase = DC
Voltage = 14V
Load = 300A

Scenario 2 - Good Cables
Gauge = 2AWG
Type = Copper
Length = 12ft
Phase = DC
Voltage = 14V
Load = 300A

If you increase the Amperage, the voltage drop is even more dramatic.

https://www.inchcalculator.com/voltage-drop-calculator/
What exactly is false about my statement?

Thicker cables carry higher current with less voltage loss. And longer runs make it worse. This is even more significant when voltage is lower and current higher, assuming power (voltage x current) is constant. That's why power transmission lines are higher voltages.

Perhaps you misunderstood my post.
I did misread your post. I thought you said "insignificant".

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