Amex cost to restaurant

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Eric
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Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Eric » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:10 pm

I’m thinking about getting an Amex* card for the first time, primarily for use at small (non-chain) restaurants. However, I’m wondering what additional costs I would be imposing on the restaurant, versus using a VISA or MasterCard rewards card. I see a lot of conflicting information about this online; some sources say there is no longer much (if any) cost difference, while others say Amex costs are substantially higher. Can anyone with direct experience or knowledge comment? Thanks in advance for any information.

*Technically it’s a Wells Fargo card that uses the Amex network, rather than a direct-from-Amex card. Not sure if that makes any difference in processing fees.

jminv
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by jminv » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:21 pm

Eric wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:10 pm
I’m thinking about getting an Amex* card for the first time, primarily for use at small (non-chain) restaurants. However, I’m wondering what additional costs I would be imposing on the restaurant, versus using a VISA or MasterCard rewards card. I see a lot of conflicting information about this online; some sources say there is no longer much (if any) cost difference, while others say Amex costs are substantially higher. Can anyone with direct experience or knowledge comment? Thanks in advance for any information.

*Technically it’s a Wells Fargo card that uses the Amex network, rather than a direct-from-Amex card. Not sure if that makes any difference in processing fees.
Why does it matter to you? It's a cost that businesses bear and by accepting Amex, they willingly choose to bear that cost. The fee might be +1% more of total than visa/mastercard but in exchange they get a sale and a customer who might otherwise not shop there or would be irritated that they don't take amex. Amex customers are attractive to businesses as they make more money, on average, and spend more money, on average. Don't feel bad about using Amex, their acceptance of it is a conscious business decision. In reality, though, amex is fairly competitive in the restaurant category the difference might be much less.

If it's still an issue for you, it can matter what size your ticket is, the transaction type, what kind of card, etc. For example, the fee might be 10 cents plus 1.9% on tickets under $25, 2.5% above that, 2.75% above $100, etc. Visa might be 1.5% plus 10% but be 2% or more for rewards cards, etc. I think the spread is really more like 0.5% for restaurants.

In any case, the long term trend of amex swipe fees is downward sloping because of the competition. The business probably looks at it more as with visa I keep 98.5 cents of every dollar after merchant fees that I can use to pay for all of my expenses, while with amex I have 97.5. 97.5 is still better than zero. If the restaurant buys into Amex marketing or they have otherwise found it to be true, the restaurant might actually feel they do better having an amex customer that spends more than a visa customer that spends less. In that case, the small difference in interchange fees is more than justified. Also, while amex acceptance doesn't really matter for people just passing through since they won't be repeat customers, it does matter for customers that could become regulars - don't take their favorite card, don't get a repeat customer.

Personally, I find Amex to be a pain since it is not accepted nearly as frequently as visa or mastercard. I used to have one but was happy to let it go a few years ago. Amex had a certain reputation years ago that made people want to have it over visa but that was before my time.
Last edited by jminv on Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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dm200
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by dm200 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:25 pm

We have an American Express (Blue) card - primarily to use on those occasions when we rent a car - we have the added (only when used) car rental insurance benefit - one charge per rental - and not per day - as charged by the car rental company. We no longer carry collision insurance on our two cars that we own.

So, we would, then, decline all added insurance from the rental company.

The decision to accept AMEX by restaurants is a "business decision" - so, I assume that if the restaurant accepts AMEX - they are ok with the charges.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by NJdad6 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:34 pm

Typically Amex is more expensive however it depends on the card processor the restaurant is using. The merchant works with them, not Amex (or Visa/MC). The rate is based on the network not the issuer. Meaning your card will be treated as an Amex card. A WF Visa card would be treated as a Visa transaction.

Most restaurants will not care if you use Amex or not. Some might prefer Visa or MasterCard. I was at a deli this morning that didn’t accept Amex. This is not as common as it was a few years ago but I still see it pretty frequently.

The impact of the rate is a bigger issue for larger business to business transactions. There the Amex acceptance gap is significantly larger due to the usually higher cost of acceptance (although this is not always the case).

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Geologist » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:34 pm

dm200 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:25 pm
We have an American Express (Blue) card - primarily to use on those occasions when we rent a car - we have the added (only when used) car rental insurance benefit - one charge per rental - and not per day - as charged by the car rental company. We no longer carry collision insurance on our two cars that we own.

So, we would, then, decline all added insurance from the rental company.

The decision to accept AMEX by restaurants is a "business decision" - so, I assume that if the restaurant accepts AMEX - they are ok with the charges.
I think it was Michael Lewis who wrote an article about Amex who included an anecdote about a store clerk who found out Lewis had a Visa after charging something with Amex who said "Do you mind if we charge this item with the Visa rather than the Amex?" because the store paid Visa less than Amex. Lewis's overall point was that stores took Amex because customers wanted to use it, not because stores were OK with it because the stores would prefer credit cares with lower merchant charges.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by mindboggling » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:48 pm

I live in a semi-rural part of upstate NY. Most local businesses here do not accept Amex. Just the big supermarkets, gas stations and the big-box stores (Wal-mart, Home Depot).
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student
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by student » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:13 pm

I agree with others who said whether a place accept AMEX is a business decision. I would not worry about it. My understanding is that even VISA has different level of fees, the high reward infinite has a higher fee than gold. https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card ... s-1275.php

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by rage_phish » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:16 pm

My dads restaurants never took Amex. Too expensive

Was never an issue losing customers

If a company accepts Amex I’d have zero problem using my Amex there

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Jags4186 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:23 pm

Stores don't take AMEX because people want to use it. Stores take AMEX because AMEX customers spend more money than Visa/Mastercard/Discover cardholders.

That said, while your local bank Visa card may have lower fees than AMEX, if you're walking around with a Visa Signature, Visa Infinite, or World Elite Mastercard you're likely costing the business the same as AMEX.

Also, many independent shops use Square, Clover, or Toast for their CC processing now. Those services charge a flat fee regardless of the type of card.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by dodecahedron » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:27 pm

Oddly enough, I had dinner with friends in a restaurant in Manhattan but the catch was that they only accept AmEx or cash!

Nobody in our party (five adults, one preschool child) had an Amex card*, so one of us had to go out before the end of the meal and find the nearest ATM in order to pay for dinner.

It was a Chinese restaurant in Chinatown (very good food served family style at modest prices, very simple unprepossessing decor--it did not at all fit our preconceived notions of the type of restaurant that would take only Amex cards and not VISA, Discover, MasterCard.)

(*Note: I actually DO have an Amex card, a free one that my late husband took out years ago for the Hilton points. Amex put the card in my name after his death so I could redeem the points he left behind, and I never bothered to close it. But I have not carried it with me in all these years because it is dominated by other cards with better rewards profiles. So it was in the sock drawer at home during this outing.)

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Eric
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Eric » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:28 pm

I appreciate that people will have different thoughts on the “why do you care” issue. To keep the thread focused, though, let’s zero in on the figures. If the bill is $60 and I would otherwise have used a “rewards” VISA or MasterCard (which have higher processing fees than a regular VISA or MasterCard), roughly what would the cost difference be? Thanks!

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:34 pm

The stand I take is the business knows better than I do if they should accept an American Express card.

Who am I to question their business plan?

Broken Man 1999
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student
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by student » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:39 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:27 pm
Oddly enough, I had dinner with friends in a restaurant in Manhattan but the catch was that they only accept AmEx or cash!

Nobody in our party (five adults, one preschool child) had an Amex card*, so one of us had to go out before the end of the meal and find the nearest ATM in order to pay for dinner.

It was a Chinese restaurant in Chinatown (very good food served family style at modest prices, very simple unprepossessing decor--it did not at all fit our preconceived notions of the type of restaurant that would take only Amex cards and not VISA, Discover, MasterCard.)

(*Note: I actually DO have an Amex card, a free one that my late husband took out years ago for the Hilton points. Amex put the card in my name after his death so I could redeem the points he left behind, and I never bothered to close it. But I have not carried it with me in all these years because it is dominated by other cards with better rewards profiles. So it was in the sock drawer at home during this outing.)
I think sometimes a place only accept AMEX due to some arrangements. For Example, Neiman Marcus only started accepting Visa and Mastercard "recently." https://www.americanbanker.com/news/nei ... mastercard

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Jags4186 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:40 pm

Eric wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:28 pm
I appreciate that people will have different thoughts on the “why do you care” issue. To keep the thread focused, though, let’s zero in on the figures. If the bill is $60 and I would otherwise have used a “rewards” VISA or MasterCard (which have higher processing fees than a regular VISA or MasterCard), roughly what would the cost difference be? Thanks!
The answer is $0 difference. The average independent restaurant will pay 2.6% and $0.10 per transaction regardless of the card used.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by RickBoglehead » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:52 pm

Eric wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:28 pm
I appreciate that people will have different thoughts on the “why do you care” issue. To keep the thread focused, though, let’s zero in on the figures. If the bill is $60 and I would otherwise have used a “rewards” VISA or MasterCard (which have higher processing fees than a regular VISA or MasterCard), roughly what would the cost difference be? Thanks!
No one can answer that for you except that restaurant.

Fees vary as stated by type of card, a reward card paying 2% cash is different than a non-reward card for example. Volume processed in a specific period affects rates, the more you have charged, the less per transaction. Cards like Amex can give a business an incentive to process more.

The fact is that Amex users spend more money than Visa or MasterCard. It is a fact. I have seen the data personally. They are simply better customers.

As to the person who said that their dad's restaurant lost no customers by not taking Amex, that's an opinion. Even if a survey was taken that proved that no customers stopped coming (likely), no study was taken showing if any people didn't become customers because Amex was not accepted.

OP should use whatever he wants to. For a $60 tab, difference is negligible. Order a drink, huge profit margin.
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by fsrph » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:18 pm

If you want an approximate processing fee ....

From - https://paymentdepot.com/blog/average-c ... sing-fees/

"But if you’re just looking for a general overview, here is a recent breakdown of average costs for four major networks:

American Express – 2.5% to 3.5%
Discover – 1.56% to 2.3%
Mastercard – 1.55% to 2.6%
Visa – 1.43% to 2.4%".

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Seas » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:26 pm

Having been in biz for many years it amazes me why every retailer (or restaurant) doesn't take Amex, they say it cost too much.

THat's only true if they don't consider the average cost of all cards they take, so it's not 1% more when the average is considered.

So when you look at the increase is sales that 1% practically disappears

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:31 pm

Not only does Amex not cost more than Visa / MC to accept, Amex can be more profitable to the merchant!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amex-is-pa ... 1574109204
For nearly 20 years, Exxcel Gymnastics and Climbing didn’t accept AmEx because of its higher swipe fees, said co-owner Tatiana Kamarskaya.

Last year, an AmEx representative visited the children’s gym in Newton, Mass., with an offer that was too good to pass up: a $15,000 sign-on bonus, no minimum charge volume required, and a pledge to match Visa and Mastercard on fees.

“I said, ‘Wow, they really want our business,’” said Ms. Kamarskaya.

...

For years, Ralph Carlo was a holdout. He repeatedly declined to take AmEx at his New Haven, Conn., heating-oil business because of its higher fees.

In spring 2018, an AmEx salesperson offered Mr. Carlo a $2,500 sign-on bonus. He still wasn’t convinced. The salesperson returned with his boss, a $5,000 bonus and a pledge to lower the swipe fee. Mr. Carlo said the lower fee changed his mind; the bonus was upped to $7,500, anyway.

“It surprised me that he raised it because I wasn’t asking for it,” he said.

Mr. Carlo’s Tracey Energy Services did around $43,000 in AmEx sales in the second half of 2018, he said. At that pace, it would take about six years for AmEx to recoup the $7,500 bonus.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Nummerkins » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Eric wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:28 pm
I appreciate that people will have different thoughts on the “why do you care” issue. To keep the thread focused, though, let’s zero in on the figures. If the bill is $60 and I would otherwise have used a “rewards” VISA or MasterCard (which have higher processing fees than a regular VISA or MasterCard), roughly what would the cost difference be? Thanks!
There is absolutely no way to know. An average pricing guide is about 20 pages covering all card types, issuers, card present/ not present, chip vs swipe, debit/credit, etc. All are negotiated though many different processors. Amex might cost more or it might not. In the end, it's almost impossible for the restaurant to even tell. This is why things like Square are popular -- flat fee regardless of card.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by sport » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:07 pm

If you are a Costco member, get one of their Visa cards. It rebates 3% for restaurants among other rebates.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by 02nz » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:11 pm

Amex used to have significantly higher interchange fees than MasterCard and Visa, but as part of a push toward wider merchant acceptance they're trying to be more competitive in this regard, especially for small businesses (the Small Business Saturday Amex created is a part of this effort). The exact numbers vary, but broadly speaking, for a non-chain restaurant that accepts Amex, the interchange fees are likely not significantly higher. On a dinner tab for two it's a rounding error.

BTW, OP, I'd say you've totally overthought this.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by TallBoy29er » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:15 pm

I've asked small service providers if they have a preference b/w me using AE, and Visa. They always say they don't care. So now, neither do I.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by JonnyDVM » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:17 pm

Not a restaurant but the fees for AMEX are definitely more than VISA. About 0.6% I think. If I didn’t want to take it I wouldn’t. You accept the fee. People like using their AMEX. I get a ton of Delta AMEX use. The restaurants you frequent probably feel the same way. No one is forcing them to accept AMEX. It’s the cost of doing business.
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by HoosierJim » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:24 pm

rage_phish wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:16 pm
My dads restaurants never took Amex. Too expensive ...Was never an issue losing customers
You never know about customers you don't have.

We had company issued Amex cards for travel. Never went anywhere that didn't take Amex.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by rage_phish » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:16 pm

I suppose. What I should have said is that it was never an issue when people were told their Amex wasn’t accepted. Their just pull out another credit card, a debit card or cash

I have a company issued Amex. If I end up somewhere that doesn’t accept it I use my own personal card and get reimbursed. Don’t see the issue personally

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by phxjcc » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:49 am

As a former retail storefront owner, the issue that I had with Amex wasn't so much their 0.5% higher fee rather it was that they would take longer than Visa and MC to pay.

Diners Club? No way, their fees were way out of line.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by JD Leonard » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:24 am

I am involved in a business in the credit card processing space and have written algorithms to calculate the cost of any given transaction. Some of the answers here are incorrect.

The cost to a business of accepting a given card for a given transaction may depend on *many* factors. The largest factor is the pricing schedule(s) that the business signed up for with their merchant services provider(s).

A given Amex transaction may cost less, more, or the same as a non-Amex transaction of the same amount. Unless they over-pay (e.g. Square's flat pricing), business owners almost never can tell you how much a given transaction will cost them because the pricing schedules are incredibly complex.

As an aside, if you own a business and want to reduce your costs while still accepting credit cards, buy your own equipment and seek out an "interchange plus" pricing model with a very low markup (e.g. 0.1% above interchange/discount rates). You can find/negotiate for this with some merchant services providers.
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by AlohaJoe » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:18 am

jminv wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:21 pm
In any case, the long term trend of amex swipe fees is downward sloping because of the competition. The business probably looks at it more as with visa I keep 98.5 cents of every dollar after merchant fees that I can use to pay for all of my expenses, while with amex I have 97.5. 97.5 is still better than zero.
I know several people who run restaurants and none of them think of it that way.

They all think of it as "my business's margins are 5% with cash; if I accept Visa that's down to 2.5%; if I accept American Express that is down to 1%. And that's pre-tax."

(Restaurants usually have 3-5% profit margin. So accepting American Express can cost them 25%-33% of their profits.)

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by trevorshhh » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:40 am

I'm noticing more and more local restaurants use Square to process credit cards, which charges the same rate for every type of card. It's hard to estimate fees because there are so many different ways that a business can have cards processed.

Also, Amex has been going down on fees while MC and Visa keep coming up with new ways to make it more expensive (like new card types Infinite, World Elite, etc.).

That said, as other said, it's a business decision. I work in an industry that takes credit cards, and we just base a certain percentage of people using cards to decide how much to bump prices up. Example I think our average CC fees are around 1.8% and around 70% of people use a card, which makes for a 1.26% bump in price to account for cards (it's slightly more complex than that, but you get the idea). That's a pretty small price difference for the food you're ordering I'd imagine. If you really feel bad drop some money in a tip jar.
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by HoosierJim » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:26 am

AlohaJoe wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:18 am
They all think of it as "my business's margins are 5% with cash; if I accept Visa that's down to 2.5%; if I accept American Express that is down to 1%. And that's pre-tax."
(Restaurants usually have 3-5% profit margin. So accepting American Express can cost them 25%-33% of their profits.)
Yes, was always amazed that farmers raise crops and animals, transport then to processors, provide processing and delivery, a chef makes the food, the waitstaff takes it to the table, and you have to clean the dishes and keep the lights on and pay the property tax, AND a company takes 2.5% of the gross for an electronic transaction that happens at low cost in milliseconds.

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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Igetit » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:59 am

I was a bookkeeper at a restaurant in a New England tourist town for over 2 decades. I retired in 2016.

At the time, processing Amex was on average 1 to 1/2% higher than Visa M/C.

But there was never any question about accepting or not accepting Amex.
We didn't want to lose business by not taking it.
Although other restaurants in town didn't accept it, a few were even cash only.

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Eric
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by Eric » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:54 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:52 pm
OP should use whatever he wants to. For a $60 tab, difference is negligible. Order a drink, huge profit margin.
I take your point, but couldn't the same be said of most expense discussions on Bogleheads? A person's asset allocation makes a huge difference in their returns, much more than the expense ratio. But we still worry about expense ratios quite a bit.
02nz wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:11 pm
OP, I'd say you've totally overthought this.
Which forum am I posting on, again? ;-)

I wasn't going to go into the "why do I care" issue -- it just seemed likely to take the discussion off-track -- but it's bugging enough people in this thread that I should probably address it. The short version is that I don't want to annoy the owners of the mostly family-owned small restaurants I attend. If it won't annoy them, great (and many of the posts in this thread are reassuring on that score).

I'm reminded of something my wife has mentioned. She's a lawyer who practices by herself, and is paid almost always by check. But she does have an account with Square (which, yes, charges the same amount to process Amex as VISA) for those rare occasions where the client asks (or the even rarer occasions where she is worried about nonpayment and wants to take away the excuse). Maybe once or twice a year. Sometimes, a client who asks about this expresses enthusiasm about getting miles or whatever. And my wife thinks (but does not say), "you want me to pay 2.6% so you can save 1.5%?" (or whatever the figures may be).

To be clear, my wife's story is applicable to all card issuers, not just Amex, since for her very-low-frequency credit-card collection she has chosen to use a flat-rate provider. But I could see a restaurant owner going through a similar thought process for Amex vs. VISA if Amex charges them more.

At the end of the day, I'm reassured that either the costs aren't higher for the restaurants I patronize, or the restaurants have been compensated for those costs. (See, e.g., the WSJ article posted in this thread, describing the extraordinary lengths Amex is going to in order to win over retailers, including hefty sign-up bonuses.) But I did want to explore this so I would know.
jminv wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:21 pm
I think the spread is really more like 0.5% for restaurants.
NJdad6 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:34 pm
Typically Amex is more expensive however it depends on the card processor the restaurant is using. The merchant works with them, not Amex (or Visa/MC). The rate is based on the network not the issuer. Meaning your card will be treated as an Amex card. A WF Visa card would be treated as a Visa transaction.
Jags4186 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:40 pm
The average independent restaurant will pay 2.6% and $0.10 per transaction regardless of the card used.
fsrph wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:18 pm
If you want an approximate processing fee ....

From - https://paymentdepot.com/blog/average-c ... sing-fees/

"But if you’re just looking for a general overview, here is a recent breakdown of average costs for four major networks:

American Express – 2.5% to 3.5%
Discover – 1.56% to 2.3%
Mastercard – 1.55% to 2.6%
Visa – 1.43% to 2.4%".
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:31 pm
Not only does Amex not cost more than Visa / MC to accept, Amex can be more profitable to the merchant!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amex-is-pa ... 1574109204
Nummerkins wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:01 pm
All are negotiated though many different processors. Amex might cost more or it might not. In the end, it's almost impossible for the restaurant to even tell. This is why things like Square are popular -- flat fee regardless of card.
JonnyDVM wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:17 pm
Not a restaurant but the fees for AMEX are definitely more than VISA. About 0.6% I think.
phxjcc wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:49 am
As a former retail storefront owner, the issue that I had with Amex wasn't so much their 0.5% higher fee rather it was that they would take longer than Visa and MC to pay.
JD Leonard wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:24 am
I am involved in a business in the credit card processing space and have written algorithms to calculate the cost of any given transaction. . . . A given Amex transaction may cost less, more, or the same as a non-Amex transaction of the same amount. Unless they over-pay (e.g. Square's flat pricing), business owners almost never can tell you how much a given transaction will cost them because the pricing schedules are incredibly complex.
Igetit wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:59 am
I was a bookkeeper at a restaurant in a New England tourist town for over 2 decades. I retired in 2016.

At the time, processing Amex was on average 1 to 1/2% higher than Visa M/C.
Thanks for all the information! (I also appreciate the other more general comments on this thread, just quoting specific cost information here to group it in one place.)

EnjoyIt
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by EnjoyIt » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:17 pm

regarding square and take out food. I find myself tipping a bit more when they have a digital processor like square and they shove the tipping screen in my face in front of everyone. Normally I tip $1-$3 when I take out food but don't get service. Now I feel more compelled to do 15% - 20%.

It is not a lot of money either way, but I wonder if the shop owners bring in more money using square despite the slightly higher fee.

sambb
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by sambb » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:30 pm

amex cardholders spend more than other cardholders. good business for many to accept it.

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Bogle7
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re: public shaming

Post by Bogle7 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:54 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:17 pm
they shove the tipping screen in my face in front of everyone.
That incentives me to tip zero.

EnjoyIt
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Re: re: public shaming

Post by EnjoyIt » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:47 pm

Bogle7 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:54 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:17 pm
they shove the tipping screen in my face in front of everyone.
That incentives me to tip zero.
I usually tip a little when I take out. Not 20-22% as I normally do, but $1 for a small order up to a few bucks for something larger. This setup pushes you to tip more if you want to tip and I don’t like being pushed into anything.

toofache32
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by toofache32 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:26 pm

I've seen some businesses add on 2 or 3% for using credit cards to offset the cost.

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southerndoc
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Re: re: public shaming

Post by southerndoc » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:25 am

Bogle7 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:54 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:17 pm
they shove the tipping screen in my face in front of everyone.
That incentives me to tip zero.
This drives me crazy (especially for take out orders). I recently had one shoved in my face where the minimum tip was 20% and went all the way to 40%. I clicked other. Instead of offering a percentage, it required that I entered an actual dollar amount. I chose to enter $0 out of protest.

I don't buy the argument that restaurants take Amex because they're afraid of turning away business. Most people don't realize what cards are taken until after they go to pay. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't pay attention to the credit card stickers on the doors telling what cards a business accepts.

EnjoyIt
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Re: re: public shaming

Post by EnjoyIt » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:22 pm

southerndoc wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:25 am
Bogle7 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:54 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:17 pm
they shove the tipping screen in my face in front of everyone.
That incentives me to tip zero.
This drives me crazy (especially for take out orders). I recently had one shoved in my face where the minimum tip was 20% and went all the way to 40%. I clicked other. Instead of offering a percentage, it required that I entered an actual dollar amount. I chose to enter $0 out of protest.
Wow, what a load of psychological BS.

I really wonder if that tipping scheme squeezes more money from their customers or incentivizes $0 out of protest.

carne_asada
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by carne_asada » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:31 pm

If your are concerned about costs to the business- just use cash.

cowbman
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by cowbman » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:31 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:23 pm
Stores don't take AMEX because people want to use it. Stores take AMEX because AMEX customers spend more money than Visa/Mastercard/Discover cardholders.

That said, while your local bank Visa card may have lower fees than AMEX, if you're walking around with a Visa Signature, Visa Infinite, or World Elite Mastercard you're likely costing the business the same as AMEX.

Also, many independent shops use Square, Clover, or Toast for their CC processing now. Those services charge a flat fee regardless of the type of card.
+1!

mmonkelton
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Re: Amex cost to restaurant

Post by mmonkelton » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:43 pm

Our office processes around $100k through credit cards and AMEX is about the same as VISA or MC. Debit is lower, but I would never recommend anyone pay with debit due to the unnecessary ID theft risk. In fact I scold clients when they do pay with debit. FYI, we don't use Square and have variable fees etc.

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