What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
NYCwriter
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by NYCwriter » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:46 am

J G Bankerton wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:41 pm
bgf wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:46 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:53 pm
I am somewhat surprised how many Bogleheads calculate or track performance.
eh, BHs tend to like money and numbers, which makes counting our money one of our favorite past times :D
Numbers tell one when to rebalance. This is why they teach math as on of the three "R"s.
Cool, your answer is even more snide than the OP's. :D

Anyway, whether I Excel it or use an app to check allocation, I'm not actually doing that math, just inputting or extracting data, yes? For rebalancing, I'm less concerned with YTD performance and more attentive to allocation percentage.

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Portfolio7
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Portfolio7 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:07 am

an_asker wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:08 am
I disagree.

If there are no contributions or withdrawals, FOGU's example is good enough (except for the minor correction I stated above).

If there are contributions or withdrawals, it gets complicated. But a back of the envelope calculation can add half the total of contributions minus withdrawals (assuming they were evenly spread out across the year) to the beginning balance and use that as the denominator.
+1. At the end of the year I add all my contributions (which are comprised of equally distributed payments, except for a lump sum contribution late in 3Q from a bonus payment). I multiply that by .45 (a little under half, since my contributions are skewed a bit to the second half of the year, and thus have less time to earn). I add that amount to my starting balance, and use that as my denominator. I take as my numerator my end of year balance adjusted for any unusual events. Divide the two and the growth is my annual return.

My calculated returns generally agree to my on-line statements for FY return within a few basis points (hundredths of a percent), which for me is close enough. The method generally works pretty well, but you can also do a weighted average calculation for your contributions and add that to your starting balance for a bit more accuracy. (I started that calculation when I received quarterly paper statements that excluded annual results.)
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Benjamin Franklin

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J G Bankerton
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by J G Bankerton » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:55 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:52 pm
J G Bankerton wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:12 pm
YTD looks really good because it doesn't include October and December of 2018. My 12 month return is 4.4% :shock: Vanguard doesn't do YTD and I don't have enough fingers and toes to figure it on my own. :(
Any 12 month return that is positive and above the rate of inflation, is a good return.
Don't forget taxes. I'm in the 51% marginal tax bracket.* My real gains are not as impressive as they look on paper. :x Inflation was 1.6% according to my inflation protected annuities.

*viewtopic.php?t=237823
J G Bankerton wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:10 pm
Average daily balance would be a good number; that is how banks figure credit balances. Is there an app for that?
an_asker wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:08 am
If there are no contributions or withdrawals, FOGU's example is good enough (except for the minor correction I stated above).
I invest ten units a month, more if there is a falling knife. That is what makes figuring YTD so difficult. Fortunately YTD is not that important especially on January 1st.

MnD
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by MnD » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:19 am

+15.4%.
Detracting from a YTD model portfolio with our same AA of 16.1% is having a significant portion of our fixed income in stable value versus nominal bonds. Coming up on first year in retirement at the end of the month and I'm just pleased it didn't start out like 1966 (knock on wood)!

winner23red
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by winner23red » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:24 am

YTD..... 20.5%
65/25/10 (US Total/Int'l Total/Total Bonds)

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by abuss368 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:18 am

With the recent market increase I still have not had any interest to log into our portfolio and determine year to date performance results.

Stay the course and tune out market noise.
John C. Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio: Total Stock & Total Bond. "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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J G Bankerton
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by J G Bankerton » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:36 pm

MnD wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:19 am
stable value
I had to look that up. That is not unlike an annuity.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Trader Joe » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:18 pm

22.73% YTD.

angeleyes
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by angeleyes » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:51 pm

20.12% YTD

Stocks 88% Bonds 12%

Not bad for doing nothing

arsenalfan
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by arsenalfan » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:01 pm

24%
Great, since everything is on autopilot.
Was shocked until I looked at my numbers for past 2 years - I forgot about the ~14% drop in 4Q 2018

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Bluce
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Bluce » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:49 pm

angeleyes wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:51 pm
20.12% YTD

Stocks 88% Bonds 12%

Not bad for doing nothing
Yup!

My PF (70% fixed) is up more than twice what I've earned working YTD. :mrgreen:

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by bgf » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:56 pm

arsenalfan wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:01 pm
24%
Great, since everything is on autopilot.
Was shocked until I looked at my numbers for past 2 years - I forgot about the ~14% drop in 4Q 2018
im global weight so essentially treading water since the high in feb of 2018. if i were 100% US the performance would be better but still not amazing, from that particular high anyway.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

sksbog
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by sksbog » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:18 pm

75/25 3 Fund portfolio.

12.9% up ytd

Buckeye Chuck
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Buckeye Chuck » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:13 pm

24% ytd

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:30 pm

21% YTD (11/08/19)

lostdog
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by lostdog » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:06 am

bgf wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:56 pm
arsenalfan wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:01 pm
24%
Great, since everything is on autopilot.
Was shocked until I looked at my numbers for past 2 years - I forgot about the ~14% drop in 4Q 2018
im global weight so essentially treading water since the high in feb of 2018. if i were 100% US the performance would be better but still not amazing, from that particular high anyway.
We've been sideways for two years. This info isn't click bait for the media. The current highs and impending doom and gloom recessions. All noise.
Total World Stock and Total World Bond. The simple two fund diversified portfolio. "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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Portfolio7
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Portfolio7 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:47 pm

MnD wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:19 am
+15.4%.
Detracting from a YTD model portfolio with our same AA of 16.1% is having a significant portion of our fixed income in stable value versus nominal bonds. Coming up on first year in retirement at the end of the month and I'm just pleased it didn't start out like 1966 (knock on wood)!
All my fixed income is in Stable Value as well. It was recommended to me that as long a expected returns are higher than SEC yield on the total bond fund (or Int Trsy Fund), then stay in SV. Yield were converging at one point, but never closed the gap. I view that as one of those decisions that will work against me at times, and for me at others...

Have you just had the SV fund in retirement, or did you use it while you were in the accumulation stage also? If you did use it in accumulation, was it also 100% of your FI?
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Benjamin Franklin

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kenyan
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by kenyan » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Up about 30% with Beardstown math.

Up about 16% based upon returns. Will actually do an XIRR once the year is up to get the real answer.
Retirement investing is a marathon.

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Sheepdog
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Sheepdog » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:34 am

86 years old, retired.....stock allocation is 25%.....2019 investment performance: 8.09%
Just because it isn't your fault doesn't mean it isn't your responsibility....Josh Reid Jones

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marti038
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by marti038 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:00 am

34.9% as of this morning, 100% in stock.

We bought some ROKU at a really good time which has proven to be a bit of a swoon for our portfolio this year.

FOGU
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by FOGU » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:23 am

an_asker wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:04 am
FOGU wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:35 pm
J G Bankerton wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:12 pm
YTD looks really good because it doesn't include October and December of 2018. My 12 month return is 4.4% :shock: Vanguard doesn't do YTD and I don't have enough fingers and toes to figure it on my own. :(
Just divide current balance by the starting balance.

Example: Jan 1, 2019 balance is 900k. End of day balance on Oct 31, 2019 is 1.1m. Ending balance divided by starting balance = 1.22. You're up 22%.
Sorry to get technical. But the denominator should be balance as of 12/31/2018 :sharebeer
Not really. Jan 1 is a market holiday so Dec 31 is the same as Jan 1 for purposes of calculation. :sharebeer

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LilyFleur
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by LilyFleur » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:38 am

10.14% based on actual returns. Retired.

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LilyFleur
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by LilyFleur » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:38 am

What in the world is Beardstown math?

MathIsMyWayr
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:08 am

LilyFleur wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:38 am
What in the world is Beardstown math?
The Beardstown Business and Professional Women's Investment Club:
The audit that showed the ladies' famous investment club didn't make much of a killing in the stock market at all, that their vaunted 23.4 percent, 10-year average annual rate of return was really 9.1 percent.

clip651
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by clip651 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:13 am

LilyFleur wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:38 am
What in the world is Beardstown math?
It involves counting your contributions as part of your gains.

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Bluce
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Bluce » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:47 am

My 30/70 PF has gained exactly 12.00% YTD.

Beardstown: +12.89% YTD.

BT math doesn't move the needle much anymore. Ah, to be young again and have very few assets! :sharebeer

StrangePenguin
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by StrangePenguin » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:51 am

Bluce wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:47 am
My 30/70 PF has gained exactly 12.00% YTD.

Beardstown: +12.89% YTD.

BT math doesn't move the needle much anymore. Ah, to be young again and have very few assets! :sharebeer
I am in a mode where I am saving more than ever before but I have only been saving a lot for a few years, so my savings each year is really having a big impact on a percentage basis.

(Today's total - Jan 1, 2019) / (Jan 1) = 40.8%
but
(Today's total - Jan 1, 2019 - 2019 contributions) / (Jan 1) = 21.9%

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ruralavalon
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by ruralavalon » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:11 am

StrangePenguin wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:51 am
Bluce wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:47 am
My 30/70 PF has gained exactly 12.00% YTD.

Beardstown: +12.89% YTD.

BT math doesn't move the needle much anymore. Ah, to be young again and have very few assets! :sharebeer
I am in a mode where I am saving more than ever before but I have only been saving a lot for a few years, so my savings each year is really having a big impact on a percentage basis.

(Today's total - Jan 1, 2019) / (Jan 1) = 40.8%
but
(Today's total - Jan 1, 2019 - 2019 contributions) / (Jan 1) = 21.9%
At your stage the most important investing decision is to maintain a high contribution rate. Keep it up.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

an_asker
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by an_asker » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:08 pm

FOGU wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:23 am
an_asker wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:04 am
FOGU wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:35 pm
J G Bankerton wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:12 pm
YTD looks really good because it doesn't include October and December of 2018. My 12 month return is 4.4% :shock: Vanguard doesn't do YTD and I don't have enough fingers and toes to figure it on my own. :(
Just divide current balance by the starting balance.

Example: Jan 1, 2019 balance is 900k. End of day balance on Oct 31, 2019 is 1.1m. Ending balance divided by starting balance = 1.22. You're up 22%.
Sorry to get technical. But the denominator should be balance as of 12/31/2018 :sharebeer
Not really. Jan 1 is a market holiday so Dec 31 is the same as Jan 1 for purposes of calculation. :sharebeer
Good one! I failed to realize that LOL!

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Portfolio7
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Portfolio7 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:37 pm

I am in a mode where I am saving more than ever before but I have only been saving a lot for a few years, so my savings each year is really having a big impact on a percentage basis.

(Today's total - Jan 1, 2019) / (Jan 1) = 40.8%
but
(Today's total - Jan 1, 2019 - 2019 contributions) / (Jan 1) = 21.9%
Good job! That's what you expect to see - here are our first several years of saving:

Annual Increase in Retirement Assets 435% 150% 107% 68% 56% 6%

Returns were good in the late 1990's, but not that good! The increases dropped to single digits shortly thereafter during the dot.com crash, before rebounding. These days, my rolling average rate of return seems to be about 8%, while retirement assets are increasing about 10% annually; contributions are clearly about 2%.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Benjamin Franklin

boglesmind
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by boglesmind » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:06 pm

lostdog wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:06 am
bgf wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:56 pm
arsenalfan wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:01 pm
24%
Great, since everything is on autopilot.
Was shocked until I looked at my numbers for past 2 years - I forgot about the ~14% drop in 4Q 2018
im global weight so essentially treading water since the high in feb of 2018. if i were 100% US the performance would be better but still not amazing, from that particular high anyway.
We've been sideways for two years. This info isn't click bait for the media. The current highs and impending doom and gloom recessions. All noise.
Roughly 70/30 stocks/bonds
20.49% IRR for 2019 (assuming zero change in portfolio values from now till 12/31/19).
23.71% IRR for YTD (11/15/19)
6.72% IRR for 2 years ending 2019 (same assumption as above).
Portfolio growth in the last two years has more than covered our withdrawals during that time.

IRR calculated using Quicken.

Boglesmind

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marti038
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by marti038 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:59 am

Checked again this morning. Now up 38% not including new contributions.

What a year.

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J G Bankerton
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by J G Bankerton » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:47 pm

marti038 wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:59 am
Checked again this morning. Now up 38% not including new contributions.

What a year.
How did you beat the S&P 500?

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xystici
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by xystici » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:33 pm

2019 YTD (As of November 28, 2019)

30% Vanguard Total Stock, XIRR = 28.9%
3% Vanguard Mid Cap, XIRR = 29.6%
7% Vanguard Small Cap, XIRR = 26.5%
4% Vanguard REIT, XIRR = 31.9%

29% Vanguard Total Intl, XIRR = 18.5%

23% Vanguard Total Bond, XIRR = 9.2%
3% Vanguard Inflation Protected, XIRR = 8.7%

Total Portfolio, XIRR = 19.9%
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Trader Joe
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Trader Joe » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:35 pm

I am up 25.62% YTD.

I am very, very happy.

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Bluce
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Bluce » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:53 pm

30/70 AA, up 12.77% YTD, no Beardstown math.

McGilicutty
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by McGilicutty » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:28 am

My asset allocation is 94/6 ~ 94% S&P 500 and 6% individual stocks.

My total return YTD is 25.8%. The S&P 500 is up a little over 28% YTD, so my messing around with individual stocks has cost me a little over 2% in returns this year so far.

spefactor
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by spefactor » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 pm

up 29.8%, beardstown math

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Bluce
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Bluce » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:28 pm

McGilicutty wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:28 am
My asset allocation is 94/6 ~ 94% S&P 500 and 6% individual stocks.

My total return YTD is 25.8%. The S&P 500 is up a little over 28% YTD, so my messing around with individual stocks has cost me a little over 2% in returns this year so far.
Your AA is actually 100/0.

AFAIK, individual stocks and stock funds all go together.

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ruralavalon
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by ruralavalon » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:13 am

Age 74, retired, asset allocation is 50/50.
our wit
Total return up 17.19% year to date.

Best fund so far is Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX), total return up 27.16%.

Our investment returns are more than three times the amount of our withdrawals.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by sschullo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:41 am

spefactor wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 pm
up 29.8%, beardstown math
😀
Public School K-12 Educators: "Ask NOT what your annuity sales person can do for you, ask what you can do to be a Do-It-Yourselfer (DIY)."

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by sschullo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:45 am

34/66

12.2%
Public School K-12 Educators: "Ask NOT what your annuity sales person can do for you, ask what you can do to be a Do-It-Yourselfer (DIY)."

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:23 am

Changed asset allocation from 50/50 tp 40/60 mid year. Not comfortable while waiting for SS AT 50/50.

17% up. Great year.

ohai
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by ohai » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:33 am

Up 41% YTD! Although this was after down 12% in 2018...

yogesh
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by yogesh » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:27 am

ohai wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:33 am
Up 41% YTD! Although this was after down 12% in 2018...
What’s in your Portfolio?
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040

ohai
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by ohai » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:08 am

yogesh wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:27 am
ohai wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:33 am
Up 41% YTD! Although this was after down 12% in 2018...
What’s in your Portfolio?
In order of dollar size:
1) Normal US equity large cap
2) Leveraged equity I.e. UPrO (I did this before hedgefundie!!)
3) Muni funds (great year)
4) small cap (losers)

APX32
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by APX32 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:23 am

Dumb question, when calculating returns, how do you account for your own contributions? I’ll share my own numbers, I keep everything in a simple spreadsheet.

(All figures rounded to the nearest thousand)

Balance of all investments on Jan 1, 2019: $504,000
401k contributions: $19,000
Company match: $9,500
Backdoor Roth: $6,000
HSA: $3,500
I-bonds: $10,000
Additional savings to taxable account; $20,000

Total savings for 2019: $68,000

Balance as of Dec 1: $692,000

So, my total return is (504,000+68,000) / 692,000 = 17.4%

Do I have it correct? Or do I simply go with how much higher I sit now compared to Jan 1, in which case I’m up 28%.

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BigWave Dave
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by BigWave Dave » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:28 am

OTIIX 32.1%

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Portfolio7
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Portfolio7 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:49 pm

APX32 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:23 am
Dumb question, when calculating returns, how do you account for your own contributions? I’ll share my own numbers, I keep everything in a simple spreadsheet.

(All figures rounded to the nearest thousand)

Balance of all investments on Jan 1, 2019: $504,000
401k contributions: $19,000
Company match: $9,500
Backdoor Roth: $6,000
HSA: $3,500
I-bonds: $10,000
Additional savings to taxable account; $20,000

Total savings for 2019: $68,000

Balance as of Dec 1: $692,000

So, my total return is (504,000+68,000) / 692,000 = 17.4%

Do I have it correct? Or do I simply go with how much higher I sit now compared to Jan 1, in which case I’m up 28%.
Be aware you need to divide by the beginning balance, not the ending balance. You are inverting the mathematical relationship in all of your calculations above:

(504 + 68)/692 is 82.6%, which I think you are subtracting from 100% to get 17.4%. This is incorrect, but replicated for clarity.

Total increase is (692-504=) 188/504 = 37.3%. This is not your returns, because as per your comments, it includes contributions. It's still a useful number when looking at your net worth growth, but not for assessing your investment returns.

If one assumes your contributions were spread out evenly over the entire year... A simple estimation model follows.
$692K less 504K = 188K is your returns plus contributions
$188K less $68K contributions = $120K is your returns.
$120K/Beginning balance is your return if you have zero contributions.
To incorporate contributions, assume they were contributed roughly evenly throughout the year (i.e. not all on Jan 1, or Dec 31)
To do that, divide contributions by half, and add to your Beginning Balance.
$68K/2= $34K. $34K plus $504K = $538. This is your revised beginning balance, for purposes of this model.
You can ratio the divisor of the $68k if you think the contribution timing was front end or back end loaded, but am keeping it simple.
Now simply divide your $120K in returns by your $538K revised beginning balance.
120/538 = 22.3%

This would be consistent with a US centric heavily equity portfolio.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Benjamin Franklin

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