My New Car Buying Tips

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hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:56 pm

My rebates(incentives) have always been included the OTD price. It was always a deduction from the selling price.
I never got a rebate later. I'd ask for an itemized quote before making a deal and driving to the dealer. Most dealers send this out without asking. Maybe call the dealers and ask.

Since you are working on a scarce vehicle....right now you only know about one that you like, you may want to go with Dealer 1. If every dealer had 3 of those on the lot, you could run the bidding process.
It never hurts to call a dealer and tell them you're getting ready to make a decision and give them some time to call you back and offer a lower price.

To run the bidding process, you want the dealer to have the vehicle on the lot or to be able to get the vehicle in a few days.

I can't speak to your choice of vehicle. My preferences would not help as I would never buy a Rav4 or Camry for myself.

surfstar
Posts: 1852
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by surfstar » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:34 pm

Agreed with Hudson - get a detailed quote prior.

We left out the incentives (Uber and USA Triathlon) in our negotiations b/c we knew that they were in addition to the best deal we could negotiate and that they were Toyota provided, so the dealer couldn't claim we're taking profit from them.

The incentives were part of the deal, though, applied after tax, of course, but were not an after the fact rebate. They lowered our total/OTD price, but I believe only the actual dealer discount lowered our sales tax purchase price.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:16 am

hudson wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:56 pm
My rebates(incentives) have always been included the OTD price. It was always a deduction from the selling price.
I never got a rebate later. I'd ask for an itemized quote before making a deal and driving to the dealer. Most dealers send this out without asking. Maybe call the dealers and ask.

Since you are working on a scarce vehicle....right now you only know about one that you like, you may want to go with Dealer 1. If every dealer had 3 of those on the lot, you could run the bidding process.
It never hurts to call a dealer and tell them you're getting ready to make a decision and give them some time to call you back and offer a lower price.

To run the bidding process, you want the dealer to have the vehicle on the lot or to be able to get the vehicle in a few days.

I can't speak to your choice of vehicle. My preferences would not help as I would never buy a Rav4 or Camry for myself.
Thanks, Hudson, for all your insight and help.

I’m so happy that it looks like I can get another $1,500 off the purchase price because of the manufacturer offers of $1,000 Cash Back On Select 2020 Toyota Camry and $500 Cash Back On Select 2020 Toyota Models. Both of those show my trim.

It sounds like I should email Dealer #1 and say I’m getting ready to make a decision, and I want to give him the opportunity to offer a lower price. Hopefully he’ll do that and then I’ll ask for an itemized quote before making the deal. Once I receive that, then I’ll let him know that I’m aware that there are two manufacturer offers/cash back that need to be applied to the purchase price. Am I on the right track? MSRP for what I want is $30,270, and his initial OTD price with fees, taxes and everything was $28,155, which was $720 less than #2.

I’m just curious why you would “never” buy a Rav4 or Camry. Is it because of the eight-speed transmission? What Toyota do you have?

Edit: I was just about to post this when I looked again at the inventory on Toyota’s site, which is where it showed those two Camry’s were about to be available at the port. I’m so upset now because now there’s only ONE that meets my criteria! The available date now is even later (12/9/19) and it shows a different VIN than before. It’s appears those other two were sold. Maybe this is a sign I need to get a RAV4! I just can’t wait much longer. I also don't know if that would change what I assume might be my next steps. Ugh!

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:31 am

surfstar wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:34 pm
Agreed with Hudson - get a detailed quote prior.

We left out the incentives (Uber and USA Triathlon) in our negotiations b/c we knew that they were in addition to the best deal we could negotiate and that they were Toyota provided, so the dealer couldn't claim we're taking profit from them.

The incentives were part of the deal, though, applied after tax, of course, but were not an after the fact rebate. They lowered our total/OTD price, but I believe only the actual dealer discount lowered our sales tax purchase price.
You have no idea how much you and Hudson have helped me. Thank you.

My concern is that those two dealers didn’t send me detailed quotes so I hope they didn’t already include those incentives, or even others that don’t apply to me. I’d be an unhappy camper. They never mentioned the cash back rebates in their emails and neither did I.

Now I have no idea how to handle this situation based on the “Edit” that I did in my last post to Hudson. I was so happy earlier thinking that I'd get more off the purchase price because of the incentives, but now it seems I'll have wait even longer to get my new car although it's only about a week. That or get a RAV4, which are more readily available. The problem is this has already been going on way too long as it is. :(

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:38 am

FinIndyGal,
I wouldn't buy either car FOR ME because I would buy a Tundra or a 4Runner. I do not prefer sedans or small suvs. I need something that will pull a trailer. I need real 4WD. I want a big back seat for hauling dogs and kids. I want to be able to throw a mountain bike in the back without taking the wheels off.

I bought my wife a RAV4; it was a great vehicle....no problems. I also got her a Sienna....also a good van.
The key is what you want and what works for you; a Tundra won't work for you...I'd bet.

During my vehicle shopping days, I focused what was on the dealers lots, not what was coming in.
If you want to run the bid process, find cars in stock that you like and get OTDs....of course bring up the incentives and make sure incentives are on your quote. Again, I disregard all of the stuff that the dealer puts on the list unless I see a mistake; I focus on OTD.

If you see a vehicle that you like, that a dealer will get for you, maybe skip the bidding....negotiate over the phone for the best OTD price and buy it. It doesn't look like you want to wait.
Last edited by hudson on Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:47 am

FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:31 am
My concern is that those two dealers didn’t send me detailed quotes so I hope they didn’t already include those incentives, or even others that don’t apply to me. I’d be an unhappy camper. They never mentioned the cash back rebates in their emails and neither did I.
If you want, call em and inquire. There's nothing like 2 way communication.

I don't get unhappy during the process. If I see an error or if somebody fudges, I call em and get the OTD quote corrected. If they don't want to play, thank them for their time, wish them a great day and don't call them back until you buy the next car. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Call around, you'll find a dealer that needs to sell a vehicle. It's the end of the month. Today is a great day to call; they aren't that busy hopefully. Friday and this weekend are terrible times to call. I always work the last Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursdays of the month.

But if I wanted a car now, I would call anytime. Don't forget to get contact names and their working schedule. Get a backup if the salesperson is going to be off work during crunch time.

When you get close to the end, and you're getting ready to make a deal, ask them what kinds of payments they accept. I've had some dealers happy with my check...no problems. There's one dealer that I've bought 2 vehicles from that uses some kind of check service. My checks alway get rejected...probably because my credit is frozen. Now I ask to talk to the finance guy directly and ask him what will work. That way when I go to pick up my car I don't have to get creative. I also charge the maximum they'll let me to a credit card...usually 3-5K and get the 2% back on the credit card. That's $100!

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:07 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:38 am
FinIndyGal,
I wouldn't buy either car FOR ME because I would buy a Tundra or a 4Runner. I do not prefer sedans or small suvs. I need something that will pull a trailer. I need real 4WD. I want a big back seat for hauling dogs and kids. I want to be able to throw a mountain bike in the back without taking the wheels off.

I bought my wife a RAV4; it was a great vehicle....no problems. I also got her a Sienna....also a good van.
The key is what you want and what works for you; a Tundra won't work for you...I'd bet.

During my vehicle shopping days, I focused what was on the dealers lots, not what was coming in.
If you want to run the bid process, find cars in stock that you like and get OTDs....of course bring up the incentives and make sure incentives are on your quote. Again, I disregard all of the stuff that the dealer puts on the list unless I see a mistake; I focus on OTD.

If you see a vehicle that you like, that a dealer will get for you, maybe skip the bidding....negotiate over the phone for the best OTD price and buy it. It doesn't look like you want to wait.
Thanks, Hudson. I thought I already started the bidding process by sending my first email and getting different quotes. :)

It sounds like I should just tell Dealer #1 (lowest price) to send me his detailed quote so I can get the car ordered ASAP and before there’s more of a delay. When I get the detail, hopefully the rebates aren’t already added in and then I can ask him to do that, which will lower the price more.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:09 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:47 am
FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:31 am
My concern is that those two dealers didn’t send me detailed quotes so I hope they didn’t already include those incentives, or even others that don’t apply to me. I’d be an unhappy camper. They never mentioned the cash back rebates in their emails and neither did I.
If you want, call em and inquire. There's nothing like 2 way communication.

I don't get unhappy during the process. If I see an error or if somebody fudges, I call em and get the OTD quote corrected. If they don't want to play, thank them for their time, wish them a great day and don't call them back until you buy the next car. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Call around, you'll find a dealer that needs to sell a vehicle. It's the end of the month. Today is a great day to call; they aren't that busy hopefully. Friday and this weekend are terrible times to call. I always work the last Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursdays of the month.

But if I wanted a car now, I would call anytime. Don't forget to get contact names and their working schedule. Get a backup if the salesperson is going to be off work during crunch time.

When you get close to the end, and you're getting ready to make a deal, ask them what kinds of payments they accept. I've had some dealers happy with my check...no problems. There's one dealer that I've bought 2 vehicles from that uses some kind of check service. My checks alway get rejected...probably because my credit is frozen. Now I ask to talk to the finance guy directly and ask him what will work. That way when I go to pick up my car I don't have to get creative. I also charge the maximum they'll let me to a credit card...usually 3-5K and get the 2% back on the credit card. That's $100!
Thanks. Before I contact Dealer #1, I think I’m going to call Dealer #2 first to see if he can go lower than #1. I was going to going to contact them today, but I appreciate you putting a fire under me. I’ve been dealing with the Dealer #1’s General Sales Manager, and he’s always responded right away to my emails.

I really appreciate you also giving me insight on payment. I was planning on asking about my credit card, but at least now I have an idea of a range I should ask for.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:16 pm

FinIndyGal,

Remember to tell him/her: I've got a quote for a car for $X. I'll probably buy it....then don't say a word. Whoever speaks next loses. Let the silence go on. I have had sales folks ask me....are you still there?

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:48 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:16 pm
FinIndyGal,

Remember to tell him/her: I've got a quote for a car for $X. I'll probably buy it....then don't say a word. Whoever speaks next loses. Let the silence go on. I have had sales folks ask me....are you still there?
You're awesome.Thanks. I'm about to call Dealer #2's sales guy that I did test drives with last month. I never gave him my info so I guess I'll let him know I met him before right? Should I say something like "I test drove some cars with you a little over a month ago, but I’ve since been looking around. I have a total OTD price for a 2020 Camry XLE, Super White exterior and macadamia interior with no add-ons for $28,154.94. I'll probably buy it"? I want him to know I'm about ready to make a deal so I can get an answer and then contact #1. I also think the rebates/cash back that I'd get expire on 12/2/19 so I want to get this signed.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:58 pm

That’s what I would do

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:05 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:58 pm
That’s what I would do
Thanks. You're the best. I'll let you know what happens. The really hard part for me will be not saying a word after that. :wink:

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:45 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:58 pm
That’s what I would do
Hudson,

I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving!

Yesterday I contacted the last sales guy that I test drove with at Dealer #2. As usual there, it was a major fiasco. I ended up talking to another sales guy, and he then had a manager call me.

Thanks for being such a great coach. I kept telling myself that you said to not say a word. I was silent most of the time, but I’m sure I said more than you would have. I did this with all three people I spoke with. It was kind of fun.

I told the manager about the OTD price I have, etc. I typed as he talked so I can see if there were any contradictory statements or red flags. Below is pretty much exactly how our conversation went:

What do I want him to do - see if he can do that price?

What am I asking him to do as a manager?

He’ll do everything in his power.

Am I paying cash? Yes.

Does he need to be at or meet the price?

Tell him what he needs to do to earn my business.

Do I have a stock number by chance?

Is it a white one?

This is it – 2020 (like he found one).

What does he need to do to try and make it happen for me? I sighed.

It’s an XLE that I’m looking at? Yes.

Yes – an XLE!

Are you still there? Yes (I was cracking up to myself because you said this happened to you).

Hello? Yes.

I thought I lost you - sorry.

Do I have a tag transfer or do I need a new tag? I said a tag transfer.

Transfer and new tag are different. If transferring and has a violation, it might be more money. A lot of times we charge a low transfer fee and when goes to transfer, the buyer has over $80 in toll fees. It stays with the tag number, and they charge me for that. I said I don’t have unpaid tolls or tickets.

He was doing whatever, and I kept hearing tons of beeping noises. It was obvious more than one person was listening.

He’d like to call me back so he can figure whatever he has to figure and let me know whatever he has to do to help me. I said I thought that’s what you were doing.

What he’s saying is he asked me what he has to do to earn my business, and I have a price at $28,153 OTD. What can he do?

He’ll tell a customer if he can’t do it and a great deal and would go buy that one and that’s why he’s waiting – he misunderstood. I said I don’t know what else to say.

I had a price for $28,153 OTD. I said actually it is $28,154.

Does he have to match that? If he can’t, he’ll say that’s a great price.

If he can’t do that price, he’ll tell me.

IF I got that price, he’ll say go purchase it if he can’t make the numbers work for me on that price - that’s a great price.

He’s asking me does he have to do the same price?

He has to work his numbers and is why he’s calling me - to see what he has to do to earn my business.

I then think I for sure screwed up! When I said so you’re telling me that’s a great price, he said it’s a great price because his internet price is…and rattled something about $32k. I said we’re not talking about the same car then. He said it’s marked down to $29,516 and that’s not counting taxes or fees or anything. (MSRP is $30,270, and his internet guy previously gave me an OTD price of $28,875 although he doesn’t know that.)

What he was saying to me earlier is $28,154 OTD is a heck of a price and that’s a wonderful price. I said that’s good to know, which I think was a mistake!

What he’s trying to tell me – I then stopped him and said you can’t do that? Another mistake!

He has to work the numbers but that tells him at that price that what they’re selling that car for is around $24 -25k, and he doesn’t have that much mark up if it’s the same car and same equipment. They all have the same car and same invoice.

That’s a great price.

He’s trying to help me and do what he has to do, but $28,154 - that’s strong and a great price.

I made another mistake when I said really – like I was questioning it. He said it’s a fantastic price.

He’s a straight shooter.

He’ll give me the best price that he has OTD, and let me know how good a price. IF that’s the price, he’d tell me to go buy it before they change their mind, but he’ll work the numbers and will call me right back.

It took him 49 minutes to call me back, and this is what he said:

He doesn’t have the exact the car - he has a little more equipment like a panoramic roof and clear coat paint and stuff you don’t need (I was shocked).

He talked to his owner and told him what I’m trying to do.

He has to find the car I want without all the equipment.

HE said I don’t want clear coat protection, and I just want the car itself and maybe floor mats and window tint (I wanted to say you need to throw those in for me to do business with you).

If he can locate the car from the port, then he can see how aggressive he can be to get to my number or better.

He can’t do on his car because he’s too high – about $1300 or 1400 (he couldn’t give me a panoramic roof anyway).

He looked on line at the port, and he sees a car that might work and he’ll see if he can get it on Friday so hang in there.

I then became concerned that he was going to try to get the ONE that’s going to be available and make it hard for me to get it through the other guy (#1) and then he (#2) won’t give me a better price. I probably made a mistake by several times telling him not to get the car until we agree on the price, etc., and this is what he kept saying about that:

If he finds the car and I agree with the price, now he has to try and get it.

He has to find the car that will work and make sure the price works before he gets the car.

He’s trying to locate one that will work and then we’ll talk about price when he finds it. If agrees on the price, he can get it there in a day.

He wants to earn my business and make sure it’s the right car without all the bells and whistles and right price.

He doesn’t have the price because he needs the VIN# and invoice and then he can work on the price once he finds the car.

He can find it at the port no problem.

He’ll try to find one on Friday. If he sees that’s the car and invoice, he’ll say he found one and here’s where he’s at. If I agree, he can have it in a day. He’d rather do that and make sure.

Once he sees the car, then he can get the invoice sent to him and then work off the cost and see if he can make it work on price (what worries me is he said when he “sees” the car).

If he can do that price or better, then I can say what I want to do and then go from there.

He can’t give me the price now. The price he has now is the one he has in stock, and it’s not the right color interior and has too much equipment on it.

The port is where all cars land. He can pick one and intercept it, and he can give one of his, but he has to make sure he can do that and get the right price.

He won’t get the car yet.

If he finds the car, they’ll send the invoice.

He has to track the car and look at the paperwork, and if works, he will go get it.

When it’s at the port, he can get it in a day. He’s not worried.

He doesn’t have the equipment or cost and doesn’t know anything so he can’t work off a number because he can’t even see the invoice unfortunately. I reminded him I don’t want extra equipment.

He’s not getting the car until we make a deal.

If he finds the car and I said no, he hasn’t lost anything.

When I said hopefully he can give me a good deal, he said I appreciate you and we hung up.

I’d be very grateful to know what you think of my calls and if you have any advice on how I should handle it now. It won’t hurt my feelings if you tell me I screwed up. He said he’ll call me Friday morning as soon as he gets there so it will be interesting what he comes up with. Hopefully I can get something signed with him or the other guy and get my new car pronto! I also don’t want to lose those rebates that expire 12/2/19. Thanks again for all your guidance.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:35 am

You're on the right track! You've found someone that's helpful. I like it when the say, "What can I do to earn your business." I like it when they listen to what I want.
I never hitched my wagon to any incentives; I figure that maybe another incentive will come along. I think incentives are sales tools. Most car places and mattress places have some tricks to hurry you up. My wife falls for that trick every time. I focus on OTD.
If this salesman can get you something that works...or is close, I would bite.
I usually took something that was on the lot or something that could be gotten in 1 day.
Again, you are going for a scarce vehicle and that is fine. Your job is to get the best price possible.
Some dealers really want to sell one more car by the end of the month.
Bragg says don't discuss finance until you've got a deal. If they ask me how I'm going to pay, I say credit card and a check...Don't tell James. Before I drive in to pick up my car, I insist that I talk to the finance guy and ask him if they'll take my check. Some use a check service....those services usually turn me down because my credit is frozen.
I don't want to drive into the dealer and have a problem with the payment. Also, after I've committed, I tell them, I don't want to hear one word about maintenance contracts or about anything that isn't included the OTD price.
If anyone tries to sell me a maintenance contract, I tell them no. If they continue, I stand up; if they don't stop, I'll walk....again no talk...no more conversation...no deal. If they want the deal to happen, they'll move on. I would call dealer #2 and ask if that price was still good.
When negotiating, your 2 best tools are silence and "walking away".

Off the subject: Sometimes I tell them that I want a spare set of keys/remote. Usually you get 2 sets with the car. I tell them that I want to drive away with a third set. I don't really tie that to the OTD price. The third set costs you hundreds of dollars if you get it later. I've had dealers throw in an extra remote and key.

Your car may have one of those remotes with a tiny key inside of the remote. You probably already know about those. If not, ask how those work. Maybe get a spare tiny key.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:28 am

hudson wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:35 am
You're on the right track! You've found someone that's helpful. I like it when the say, "What can I do to earn your business." I like it when they listen to what I want.
I never hitched my wagon to any incentives; I figure that maybe another incentive will come along. I think incentives are sales tools. Most car places and mattress places have some tricks to hurry you up. My wife falls for that trick every time. I focus on OTD.
If this salesman can get you something that works...or is close, I would bite.
I usually took something that was on the lot or something that could be gotten in 1 day.
Again, you are going for a scarce vehicle and that is fine. Your job is to get the best price possible.
Some dealers really want to sell one more car by the end of the month.
Bragg says don't discuss finance until you've got a deal. If they ask me how I'm going to pay, I say credit card and a check...Don't tell James. Before I drive in to pick up my car, I insist that I talk to the finance guy and ask him if they'll take my check. Some use a check service....those services usually turn me down because my credit is frozen.
I don't want to drive into the dealer and have a problem with the payment. Also, after I've committed, I tell them, I don't want to hear one word about maintenance contracts or about anything that isn't included the OTD price.
If anyone tries to sell me a maintenance contract, I tell them no. If they continue, I stand up; if they don't stop, I'll walk....again no talk...no more conversation...no deal. If they want the deal to happen, they'll move on. I would call dealer #2 and ask if that price was still good.
When negotiating, your 2 best tools are silence and "walking away".

Off the subject: Sometimes I tell them that I want a spare set of keys/remote. Usually you get 2 sets with the car. I tell them that I want to drive away with a third set. I don't really tie that to the OTD price. The third set costs you hundreds of dollars if you get it later. I've had dealers throw in an extra remote and key.

Your car may have one of those remotes with a tiny key inside of the remote. You probably already know about those. If not, ask how those work. Maybe get a spare tiny key.
Thanks, Hudson. The world would be a better place if there were more kind people like you in it!

Now for the bad news. The manager at Dealer #2 (the one two miles from my house) just called. He said:

He did his search at the port, and he doesn’t have anything that is a base vehicle. Usually when they order an XLE, they get the most equipment because people are stepping up. They are out there, but it’s very seldom that they order without a panoramic roof and all the stuff.

Macadamia interior is very few and far between because everyone prefers the graphite (dark medium gray) or black interior. Most people have kids and they don’t want lighter or show stains or marks or wear. That’s what they tell him from the survey. That color is popular to me, but it’s not a popular choice so people ORDER the car like I want - it’s not like it comes in all the time. They have them periodically, but the majority is a dark interior. When I said I’d never have black interior in Florida, he said people buy it all the time, and it doesn’t make sense to him either.

He did see what I want at the port, but the problem is it’s already ordered for a customer in Savannah so it’s going to their store. He thought he could intercept it, but he found it’s already pre-ordered so he couldn’t intercept it and give one of his.

He found another macadamia up in Georgia and it doesn’t have all the extras that I didn’t want with almond interior, but the problem is he can’t get to $28,154. He’s right at maybe $29k.

He kept making comments like that’s a great price and IF I have that price, I probably should revisit that because he didn’t have anything close without all that equipment. He’d jump all over that price – he can’t even get close realistically. He thought maybe it was my trade but my trade is worth more so it’s not the trade and that’s a great price - especially OTD right now. If he had the car, he can’t get to that price – that’s an aggressive, aggressive price. HE is really aggressive on price so he’s not sure. Even if he took the equipment - like the one he found at the port - even though it’s sold, he couldn’t even get to $28,154. He’s closer to $29k so that’s an excellent price.

I assume I should now go back to Dealer #1 that gave me the $28,154 price and tell him that I’m ready to move forward ASAP and to email me a buyer’s order with the VIN# and the exact specifics of the car with a breakdown correct? I’m really starting to question his OTD price – mainly because he didn’t send me the breakdown when I asked for it. I’m also concerned because #1 said he’d get this car directly from the port. If #2 can’t get it, then #1 couldn’t either unless #1 ordered it when I asked for the OTD price.

I’m really starting to wonder if this is a sign that maybe I should get a RAV4. A super white with a tan interior seems a lot more prevalent. It’s a darker tan interior than the Camry.

And it sounds like you don’t think I should worry so much about those rebates that are expiring Monday. The problem is I need a car sooner rather than later.

Thank for everything. You’ve been so helpful.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:22 pm

You're on the right track.
You can't go wrong with a Rav4 or the Camry.
If you want a car now, work both dealers for the best deal on something they've got on the lot or something they can get in one day.
If you can wait, they may be able to get close to your specifications.
If you want a car today, it's the art of the possible.

Topic Author
denovo
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by denovo » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:16 pm

researcher wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
david9117 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:12 am
I think this approach stands out from the thousands of email the dealers get thru from various websites. Atleast the sales person knows I am a serious buyer who is willing to give a call instead of sending mass emails.
Agreed. There shouldn't even be an argument that directly contacting the dealer better positions you for the best price.

Buyer 1
- Sets up an anonymous, single-use email address to communicate with dealers.
- Emails a dozen dealership "internet specialists," who are usually $10/hr noobs.
- Refuses to speak over the phone or in person.

Buyer 2
- Calls the dealer directly. Speaks with a sales manager.
- Provides their actual real name and contact info.
- Establishes rapport. Commits to a price and timeline for purchasing the vehicle.

Which is the dealer going to take more seriously?
Which is the dealer willing to expend more effort to gain their business?
Which will the dealer reach out to first when they need to make one more sale before the end of the month?
hudson wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:39 am
I like to call 5-10 dealers and try to establish that I'm a serious buyer...honest, and straightforward.
I also try to get the name and phone number of who I'm working with and maybe their backup person. I ask for their schedule and who to call if I can't get him/her. I try to figure out what their preferred method of communication is. I don't insist on a written quote until crunch time....but I do ask for an "out the door price." I haven't run into anyone in the car sales business who can't deliver that exact "out the door price" quicky. I had one salesman fudge on the "out the door price". I didn't buy from him; that dealership would have to really drop their bid to get my business...and they didn't. Using the denovo (OP) system correctly can get you the best deal available....as long as you are buying a vehicle that is widely available. If you are buying a scarce type vehicle, it won't work. I've learned that there are many dealers that won't deal...but there are enough that are interested.


OP here, my advice remains the same. E-mail only, you will not get a better deal by playing telephone, you will spend more time and not a good deal. Committing to a timeline is probably one of the worst pieces of advice.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:08 pm

denovo wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:16 pm
OP here, my advice remains the same. E-mail only, you will not get a better deal by playing telephone, you will spend more time and not a good deal. Committing to a timeline is probably one of the worst pieces of advice.
I agree that email-only an no-timeline can work just fine.

I personally like to wait until the last Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday of the month or year and start making phone calls. I've found that some dealers want to deal; other dealers give me one only price and drop out. The phone let's me build a working relationship with a salesperson and usually a manager. On my 2d call, they know me and I hope they believe that I'm a serious buyer who's going to make decision very soon. On that 2d call I start to learn how serious the dealer is. On the 3d round, I'm ready to set a cut off time and choose a dealer. I'm almost always finished in 2 or 3 days. Two way communication....for me is a plus.

Email or phone; I think either can work; it depends on the dealer. If one dealer doesn't want to deal your way; there are plenty of others.

It also depends on the communication style of the person who gets the phone call or email. I try to find out how they like to communicate. I left out texts; some sales people prefer texting; I can work with that. There are also dealerships that don't like phone, texts, or emails. You'll have to show up to deal....and that's not for everyone....probably not for me.

Great discussion Denovo!

User avatar
BogleFanGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by BogleFanGal » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:24 pm

FinIndyGal - how did it turn out? I'm hoping you landed your dream car over the weekend after all your diligent work...
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:04 pm

hudson wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:22 pm
You're on the right track.
You can't go wrong with a Rav4 or the Camry.
If you want a car now, work both dealers for the best deal on something they've got on the lot or something they can get in one day.
If you can wait, they may be able to get close to your specifications.
If you want a car today, it's the art of the possible.
Thanks, Hudson. I’m curious what kind of official document you received from dealers via email before you moved forward, and did you give them a deposit over the phone via credit card?

I ran into a concern with Dealer #1 who gave me the Camry OTD price of $28,154. When I told him Friday that I’m ready to move forward and to email me an official proposal/quote outlining the price details, VIN #, description of the car, etc., I was uncomfortable with what he sent me. It was a “Consumer Sheet” that showed a picture of the Camry XLE and listed standard features, etc. It was basically a print screen and similar to what you’d see on Toyota’s website. “Warranty info” was blank, which I found odd. I was concerned that attached to that was a “For Internal Use Only” document that has a VIN #, Mileage 3, 2020 Toyota Camry, Type XSE (vs. XLE) 4 dr sedan 2548 (the XSE #!) and he left the color blank! It had numbers like selling price, discount, Cash Deposit $0 and the balance (OTD price he quoted). There were signature lines for my approval and their management.

What I didn’t like at all is the language “For Information Only. This is not an offer or contract for sale.” I haven’t said anything to him yet, but I feel this leaves me open to a different price later, and it makes me wonder if this is the reason it took him so long to send this to me. Dealer #2’s quote doesn’t have this language. What do you think? It also says that I authorize the release of my credit, but I’m paying cash so I don’t intend to let them do that. It had some other stuff about communication and that terms and conditions are subject to credit approval, which won’t apply to me.

I did let him know my concerns that it shows an XSE, doesn't have colors, and he didn’t confirm when and where the car is coming from. He said they don’t have it in stock and it will be a locate and take 10-14 business days to arrive and he can’t put a vehicle that they don’t own on a purchase order. He also asked if I received the “window sticker” (aka Consumer Sheet) highlighting the year, make, model, trim level, color, and features. He said once he has secured it, he can send over a VIN #.

I guess I understand that he doesn’t have a VIN # yet, but to put a completely different model and not the colors raised alarm bells, as well as that it says that it’s not an offer or contract for sale. Attaching a print of a Consumer Sheet is weird to me, too.

I was then annoyed and stopped communicating. I went back to Dealer #2 to discuss a RAV4 that he has on his lot. After a few days, I asked #1 for a price on a RAV4 that he has for comparison purposes.

Would any of this be a red flag to you? Maybe I’m reading too much into it. I also hope he’s not just saying it will be 14 business days max and then the car shows up two months from now. He confirmed it will be coming directly from the port to him.

Thanks for everything.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:10 pm

denovo wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:16 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am
david9117 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:12 am
I think this approach stands out from the thousands of email the dealers get thru from various websites. Atleast the sales person knows I am a serious buyer who is willing to give a call instead of sending mass emails.
Agreed. There shouldn't even be an argument that directly contacting the dealer better positions you for the best price.

Buyer 1
- Sets up an anonymous, single-use email address to communicate with dealers.
- Emails a dozen dealership "internet specialists," who are usually $10/hr noobs.
- Refuses to speak over the phone or in person.

Buyer 2
- Calls the dealer directly. Speaks with a sales manager.
- Provides their actual real name and contact info.
- Establishes rapport. Commits to a price and timeline for purchasing the vehicle.

Which is the dealer going to take more seriously?
Which is the dealer willing to expend more effort to gain their business?
Which will the dealer reach out to first when they need to make one more sale before the end of the month?
hudson wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:39 am
I like to call 5-10 dealers and try to establish that I'm a serious buyer...honest, and straightforward.
I also try to get the name and phone number of who I'm working with and maybe their backup person. I ask for their schedule and who to call if I can't get him/her. I try to figure out what their preferred method of communication is. I don't insist on a written quote until crunch time....but I do ask for an "out the door price." I haven't run into anyone in the car sales business who can't deliver that exact "out the door price" quicky. I had one salesman fudge on the "out the door price". I didn't buy from him; that dealership would have to really drop their bid to get my business...and they didn't. Using the denovo (OP) system correctly can get you the best deal available....as long as you are buying a vehicle that is widely available. If you are buying a scarce type vehicle, it won't work. I've learned that there are many dealers that won't deal...but there are enough that are interested.


OP here, my advice remains the same. E-mail only, you will not get a better deal by playing telephone, you will spend more time and not a good deal. Committing to a timeline is probably one of the worst pieces of advice.
Thanks, OP. Believe me, I wanted to just do email, but I only received 4 responses of the 8 emails I sent. I called the others, but they wouldn’t give me an OTD price because they didn’t have the Camry I wanted. I later emailed about RAV4’s they had in stock and got a better response. I’m still trying to figure it all out.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:20 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:24 pm
FinIndyGal - how did it turn out? I'm hoping you landed your dream car over the weekend after all your diligent work...
How sweet. Thanks for asking. See the update/reply I just did. Unfortunately, I still don’t have my car yet, but hopefully it will be any time now. It better be! I’ll let you know the end result. After I get it, I honestly never want to even think about a car again.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:40 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:04 pm
Thanks, Hudson. I’m curious what kind of official document you received from dealers via email before you moved forward, and did you give them a deposit over the phone via credit card?
FinIndyGal, It's gonna work out!

Does dealer #1 want a deposit and a signature before he gets your car?
If so, I'd want at least verbal assurance that I'd get a car that fit my criteria.

For my last 3 vehicle purchases, I asked for one of their official documents that had the VIN and the sticker type info on it before I drove to pick it up. I have paid a deposit on the verbal promise that they would get a car that met my requirements. I think that I've done that 3 times in recent history, where the dealer got my car from another dealer and delivered it to me.

If you buy a car from them, they want you to be happy. There's a Toyota Factory Survey that you will get and they very much want a max on that from you. I've always been happy; I've always maxed the survey out.

If the vehicle and the price were not satisfactory; I'd tell them no deal and ask for my deposit back.

In other words, to ask them to get you a car; that's not a binding contract. A deposit to get a car that pretty much meets your specs is not a contract. You can bail, if they don't get you what you want.

They know what you want; they said they would get it within 2 weeks. If they play any games, you can bail.

Yes...deposit over the phone with a credit card.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:21 pm

hudson wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:40 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:04 pm
Thanks, Hudson. I’m curious what kind of official document you received from dealers via email before you moved forward, and did you give them a deposit over the phone via credit card?
FinIndyGal, It's gonna work out!

Does dealer #1 want a deposit and a signature before he gets your car?
If so, I'd want at least verbal assurance that I'd get a car that fit my criteria.

For my last 3 vehicle purchases, I asked for one of their official documents that had the VIN and the sticker type info on it before I drove to pick it up. I have paid a deposit on the verbal promise that they would get a car that met my requirements. I think that I've done that 3 times in recent history, where the dealer got my car from another dealer and delivered it to me.

If you buy a car from them, they want you to be happy. There's a Toyota Factory Survey that you will get and they very much want a max on that from you. I've always been happy; I've always maxed the survey out.

If the vehicle and the price were not satisfactory; I'd tell them no deal and ask for my deposit back.

In other words, to ask them to get you a car; that's not a binding contract. A deposit to get a car that pretty much meets your specs is not a contract. You can bail, if they don't get you what you want.

They know what you want; they said they would get it within 2 weeks. If they play any games, you can bail.

Yes...deposit over the phone with a credit card.
Thanks, Hudson. I truly appreciate your advice.

I’ve never spoken to Dealer #1. Everything is in email. The “For Internal Use Only” document he sent with the numbers shows “Cash Deposit $0,” and his emails never said he wanted a deposit. There is a signature line for “Customer Approval,” but he never asked me to sign it before he gets the car. When I initially said I was reviewing his OTD price, he said “You just give me the ok and I will secure one for you.” When I told him I’m ready to move forward and to email me an official proposal/quote outlining the price details, etc., he said “I will get that information over to you. I will work on securing one now. Please reply that everything is correct on the offical purchase proposal on window sticker.” I then got a separate email with the documents “For Internal Use Only” and “Consumer Sheet” that showed a picture of the Camry and a description of the make, model, year and colors that I want. His information doesn’t show my address, phone number or anything, and he never asked for it. He has part of my email address as my name, but that’s not my name so I guess at some point I need to tell him what my real name is. :P

When you say “the dealer delivered it to me,” did they literally deliver the car to your house? I’ve been trying to figure out how to ask my guy to do that because he’s about 20 miles from me, and I’m not trading in my car. This is why it would easier to get it from the dealer two miles from my house, but he was at least $800 more.

All I know is you’ve made me feel a lot better about this so my plan is to give him the go ahead tomorrow/Wednesday morning to get the car. I didn’t think about the survey, and it’s good to know I can bail, if necessary. If he does ask for a deposit to get the car, I can always cancel it on my credit card if things turn out to not be what I want and exactly as we agreed. I just hope everything works out, and it arrives sooner rather than later. I can’t take much more of this. I’m exhausted!

BTW – should I wait until the car is delivered to him before I ask about putting $3k to $5k on my credit card? I don’t want to scare him and then he doesn’t get the car.

Thanks again for being so kind and helpful.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:59 am

FinIndyGal,

I would get the salesperson on the phone and hash out the details....including how much they'll allow on a credit card. Before you get the car, you'll likely have to go into the dealer and pay the finance person. I've never had a problem giving my name and contact information. I've given it out from the beginning to each dealer I want a quote from. I've never had heartburn from leaving my contact information. I've found these dealers to be better guardians of my info than most.

Have I had a car delivered? Once. I went to pick up a car, and they didn't have it on the lot. I was getting ready to bail. I had driven to a dealer located 100 miles away. My son was going to drive it away. The salesperson said that he would personally deliver the vehicle to my residence in 24 hours. I said OK. I sat down with the finance guy and paid for the car. It all worked out. I learned to get full disclosure before driving to the dealer. I want the vehicle ready, clean, no surprises, and a fast checkout. No talk of service contracts. I want the finance person to approve my check before I drive to the dealer; I'll be glad to get him/her a voided check in advance.

Some dealers promise delivery; some don't. I've bought 4 vehicles since; I picked each up from the dealer.
Last may, I went to pay and pick up a vehicle from a dealer an hour away. I didn't have a driver; I thought about hiring uber to take me...but at the time, they didn't come out this far. I drove an 18 year old toyota that I was later going to take to Carmax to unload. I hadn't cleaned it up or washed it in over a year. I met with the sales lady to start the check out payment process. The deal was already made as I had an OTD price. I asked the sales lady if she would name a price for my old vehicle; I liked the price and left it with her. So, I worked out my ride to the dealership and avoided a 2d trip to Carmax.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:06 am

hudson wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:59 am
FinIndyGal,

I would get the salesperson on the phone and hash out the details....including how much they'll allow on a credit card. Before you get the car, you'll likely have to go into the dealer and pay the finance person. I've never had a problem giving my name and contact information. I've given it out from the beginning to each dealer I want a quote from. I've never had heartburn from leaving my contact information. I've found these dealers to be better guardians of my info than most.

Have I had a car delivered? Once. I went to pick up a car, and they didn't have it on the lot. I was getting ready to bail. I had driven to a dealer located 100 miles away. My son was going to drive it away. The salesperson said that he would personally deliver the vehicle to my residence in 24 hours. I said OK. I sat down with the finance guy and paid for the car. It all worked out. I learned to get full disclosure before driving to the dealer. I want the vehicle ready, clean, no surprises, and a fast checkout. No talk of service contracts. I want the finance person to approve my check before I drive to the dealer; I'll be glad to get him/her a voided check in advance.

Some dealers promise delivery; some don't. I've bought 4 vehicles since; I picked each up from the dealer.
Last may, I went to pay and pick up a vehicle from a dealer an hour away. I didn't have a driver; I thought about hiring uber to take me...but at the time, they didn't come out this far. I drove an 18 year old toyota that I was later going to take to Carmax to unload. I hadn't cleaned it up or washed it in over a year. I met with the sales lady to start the check out payment process. The deal was already made as I had an OTD price. I asked the sales lady if she would name a price for my old vehicle; I liked the price and left it with her. So, I worked out my ride to the dealership and avoided a 2d trip to Carmax.
Thanks, Hudson. I’m curious – why do you buy so many cars? I buy them new and keep them forever.

I’m not dealing with a salesperson – I contacted the General Sales Manager in the beginning and have only dealt with him. I feel it’s important to go straight to the decision maker if I can get to him. It’s my intention to pay for the car the day I take delivery and not before. This is what I did in 1999 when I bought my current car, but I put a $500 deposit down in advance because it was a special order. There’s no way I can drive way over there before because my BMW needs a sensor to operate. I have a buyer who is anxiously waiting to buy it, and he’s going to fix it once he’s the owner. This is why I hope Dealer #1 at least has a shuttle to pick me up on the day of delivery because everyone works, and it will be a royal pain for me to figure out how to get there. His competitor is only two miles from my house. I’ve heard of dealers bringing the car right to you, and you do all the paperwork and pay them at your location.

It’s not like I had a problem giving my name and contact information, but we’ve only communicated via email. He just assumed my name was what my email address says, and I didn’t feel it was necessary to correct him until I decided we have a deal. Now that I see the wrong name on his “For Information Only” document that he sent me, I’ll let him know. I purposely created my email address as not my name because I sometimes sell stuff on Craigslist, and I want to make sure I’m not dealing with a serial killer or some crazy person.

My plan is to order this today. The only thing that bugs me is I didn’t do anything but one round with him. The reason is his OTD was $28,155, #2 was $28,875 and the two dealers that are three hours from me and where I’m moving were $29,139 and $29,972, but they had add-ons that I didn’t want. I didn’t want to push my luck. Because of the confusion about the Camry, he’s since offered to put window tint and door guards on my car for free, which apparently the other dealer charges $699 for. I’ve since decided I don’t want either of those, and I’m going to ask him to throw in carpet floor mats and the trunk mat instead, as well as the extra and third set of keys as you suggested.

Thanks again for everything. I’ll let you know what happens.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:26 am

FinIndyGal,
I keep vehicles for at least 10 years...many times, much longer...especially since I've started buying Toyotas. I have a mess of drivers...and another with a learning permit.
Last edited by hudson on Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:30 am

FinIndyGal,
You've done the best you can do in your "scarce vehicle" situation.

It sounds like you need a car now. I'd go forward. I would definitely talk to the sales manager. Email works if you have all of the details worked out; but you need 2 way communication to get the job done. Maybe write down your list of questions and see what's possible.

If each dealer had 3 cars that you liked on their lots, it would be a different story.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:10 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:30 am
FinIndyGal,
You've done the best you can do in your "scarce vehicle" situation.

It sounds like you need a car now. I'd go forward. I would definitely talk to the sales manager. Email works if you have all of the details worked out; but you need 2 way communication to get the job done. Maybe write down your list of questions and see what's possible.

If each dealer had 3 cars that you liked on their lots, it would be a different story.
Thanks, Hudson. Well, you’re not going to believe this! I still haven’t signed my deal, but I am tomorrow morning because it takes 10 to 14 business days to get. I finally decided the safest one for me to get is the RAV4 instead of the Camry. I have an OTD price of $30,448 for the 2020 XLE Premium. MSRP IS $30,910. Dealer discount is $3,500. I hope that’s a good deal. I didn’t go a second round because he was cheapest, and the only one willing to locate it in the colors I want with no add-ons. I’m going to ask him to throw in carpet floor mats and the trunk mat. The OTD price on the Camry is $28,155 so the price difference is only $2,293. Insurance is higher on the Camry I assume because it’s one of the top ten stolen cars, which also was a factor in my decision.

Because I like and don’t like things about both, I decided to weigh what’s most important to me, which is safety. I had to consider age because I’m a planner, and I keep my cars forever. While getting in and out of a sedan isn’t an issue now, I’ve read many articles that say this changes. What really pushed me over the edge was a recent comment on an AARP article where someone said “I drive a Toyota Camry, and feel like I risk my own, and possibly other people's lives every day. Trying to leave a parking space safely at a shopping center with a SUV parked next to you on both side is an impossibility. Cannot see over the SUV and have to pull out way to far before I can see anyone/or anything approaching is a big problem I fear I will hit a little child or animal(not to mention, a car) due to the fact that my car is so low to the ground.” I previously ignored articles that said the new Camry’s entry and exit prove difficult because it sits lower to the ground than it used to, but that comment by someone who owns a Camry really bugged me. I also read there are some visibility problems when reversing so I just feel I’ll be safer in the RAV4.

So, I hope I’m making the right decision because it’s something that I’ll be living with for a very long time. I just couldn’t ignore that it’s easier to get in and out of, provides better visibility and an extra bonus is it will handier. I’d rather not have a sunroof, but I can live with that if it means I’ll feel safer.

I’d love to get your opinion on my deal, etc. I’m also curious why your wife got rid of her RAV4. Thanks for all the help you’ve given me.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:28 pm

FinIndyGal,
I think you're good to go!
My wife liked her RAV4. It was still running fine after 8-10 years. She keeps saying that she would like to have another. We got a Sienna because we wanted a van for kids/dogs.
I have a problem getting in the driver's side of the Sienna...bad hip. I'm going to get that fixed.
I can easily get into the Tundra/4Runner type vehicles because of the step.
I don't remember having a problem entering the drivers side of the RAV4....but that's been year or more and my hip wasn't as bad.
I would think getting in a Camry would be difficult, but I could/would get in. I would never get a Camry for myself because I prefer Tundras/4Runners.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:06 pm

hudson wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:28 pm
FinIndyGal,
I think you're good to go!
My wife liked her RAV4. It was still running fine after 8-10 years. She keeps saying that she would like to have another. We got a Sienna because we wanted a van for kids/dogs.
I have a problem getting in the driver's side of the Sienna...bad hip. I'm going to get that fixed.
I can easily get into the Tundra/4Runner type vehicles because of the step.
I don't remember having a problem entering the drivers side of the RAV4....but that's been year or more and my hip wasn't as bad.
I would think getting in a Camry would be difficult, but I could/would get in. I would never get a Camry for myself because I prefer Tundras/4Runners.
Thanks so much, Hudson.Wow! That's a great testimonial that your wife keeps saying that she would like to have another. It sounds like it hasn't been that long since you got rid of her RAV4. :D

I'm really sorry to bug you yet again, but I feel you always give great advice. I'm curious how you diplomatically asked the sales manager about using your credit card. Did you tell him that you wanted to pay $3-5k on your card and pay cash for the rest or did you ask how much or if you can use your credit card? I'm basically going to let this guy know tomorrow morning that I want the RAV4, but I don't want to mess up the whole credit card thing. I'd really like to do the $5k if they'd let me so I can get cash back. I just don't want him to think I don't have the money to pay for all of it or whatever he'd think.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:26 pm

FinIndyGal,
Are you talking about a deposit? That's been $300-500 for me in the past.
For part of the overall payment, I would ask the salesperson how much I could put on my card.

If I was really a tough guy, I would say, "I need to put 5K on my card", and bite my tongue....silence. Wait for an answer. All of this before making the deal. If the answer is less, there may be some negotiation room.
I think my last 2 purchase credit card payments were 3K and 4K....I never got 5K....which would be $100 in 2% points....not a big deal.

If you don't get what you want, tell the salesperson, "Then I don't want to hear one word about those blinking service contracts then!" On my next purchase, I'm not listening to a service contract sales pitch!

I absolutely don't care about what the salesperson thinks about my finances. The salesperson doesn't care either. He/she knows that the finance person in the back will take care of all of that. The salesperson wants the sale.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:40 pm

hudson wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:26 pm
FinIndyGal,
Are you talking about a deposit? That's been $300-500 for me in the past.
For part of the overall payment, I would ask the salesperson how much I could put on my card.

If I was really a tough guy, I would say, "I need to put 5K on my card", and bite my tongue....silence. Wait for an answer. All of this before making the deal. If the answer is less, there may be some negotiation room.
I think my last 2 purchase credit card payments were 3K and 4K....I never got 5K....which would be $100 in 2% points....not a big deal.

If you don't get what you want, tell the salesperson, "Then I don't want to hear one word about those blinking service contracts then!" On my next purchase, I'm not listening to a service contract sales pitch!

I absolutely don't care about what the salesperson thinks about my finances. The salesperson doesn't care either. He/she knows that the finance person in the back will take care of all of that. The salesperson wants the sale.
Thanks again, Hudson. No, I'm not talking about a deposit. His OTD quote sheet shows $0 for deposit, but we'll see what happens tomorrow. I hope it stays that way.

I'm talking about the overall payment. He knows I'm paying cash, and I was just trying to figure out how to bring up the credit card thing. I've been dealing directly with the General Sales Manager, not a salesperson. I think I’ll just ask him how much I can put on my card like you said and then I’ll give a check for the rest.

You’re funny. It sounds like they've almost harassed you about service contracts. I really don't think the GSM will go there with me. I've been pretty straightforward all along that I don't want any extras on this car, but all of our communication so far has been via email.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he won’t pull any fast ones tomorrow because I need to get this car ordered pronto. I appreciate all your help, and I’ll let you know what happens.

glock19
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:49 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by glock19 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:36 am

Since we are talking about Toyota products here, can anyone tell me about how much "off sticker price" one could expect to pay for a Lexus NX? Not including rebates, of course.

I purchased a new Rav4 about 5 years ago and got a few thousand off MSRP but my understanding is that Toyota does not discount much anymore.

researcher
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by researcher » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:39 am

glock19 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:36 am
Since we are talking about Toyota products here, can anyone tell me about how much "off sticker price" one could expect to pay for a Lexus NX? Not including rebates, of course.

I purchased a new Rav4 about 5 years ago and got a few thousand off MSRP but my understanding is that Toyota does not discount much anymore.
You need to do an internet search for "Lexus NX forum" and then look for the "Prices Paid" thread.
Such a forum/thread exists for virtually every made/model.
Here is the most recent post I found fom a 5 second search...

Bought our first Lexus on Black Friday. Loving it so far.
2020 Atomic Silver w/ Black Interior
MSRP - $41,588
$4,888 off from dealer
$2,000 off from Lexus
License fee - $503
Doc fee - $85
Tax - $2850

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:49 am

FinIndyGal,
When I bought a new Sienna, they sent me to the back room to talk to the finance guy to finish the deal. In the past, the finance guy was a finance guy. In this Toyota dealership, he was a salesman. He pitched the extended warranty to me for 5-10 minutes. He had a monitor built into his desk with an excellent presentation. I had a hard time distinguishing between his briefing of the built in warranty and the extended warranty. I decided to figure it out myself from the manuals. I politely let him talk. When he asked me if I was interested. I said, "I don't buy extended warranties." He continues and dropped the price and went on and on. When he paused, I calmly told him that I wasn't interested. He dropped the price again; I repeated my answer. He stood up and walked out; a few moments later, he came in with his boss, who was very nice and also gave a heck of a presentation and sales pitch. I replied again; NO. They finally gave up. The sales pitch was so good, I can see many folks buying...but not me.

I bought another vehicle from another nearby Toyota dealer; there wasn't a finance guy. I only dealt with a salesman. There wasn't one word about extended service contracts. Also, I was paying with a check...but I had not moved any money into my checking account. I told him my dilemma. He told me that he'd hold my check until I called him. Every dealer is different. When I buy another vehicle, I'll call both dealers again for OTD quotes. For the winning bidder, I'll specify in advance that there will be no extended warranty talk. After that, if I hear one word, I'll spill my extra large coffee all over the desk. :happy
Last edited by hudson on Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:26 am

glock19,
I agree with Researcher's advice.
Consider checking James Bragg's website for his $40 service. He publishes the prices his customers have reported for car purchases nationwide. Maybe search for James Bragg...Fighting Chance. He sends customers a slew of documents that give detail on the vehicle that you select including prices paid, the current buying climate for your vehicle, and other buying strategies. I've used his service three times with 5 different vehicles. You can call him for additional advice. I've made 3 calls to him through the years and his advice was invaluable.

Does Toyota still discount? I would say that they have incentives to move any models that aren't selling well enough. If a vehicle is scarce...no discount. I've found that if you use out-the-door bidding (OTD), you can find price differences between dealers. Again, dealers won't discount scarce vehicles. A friend tried to do OTD to buy a luxury sedan with a high end entertainment package. He couldn't get any second bids; it was a scarce vehicle. He went ahead with the purchase.

A440
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:46 am
Location: NJ

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by A440 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:19 am

Looking to purchase the brand new 2020 Hyundai Sonata Limited (cash, no trade). The cars just started arriving on lots, so selections is, well...Limited. :happy
I told one salesperson to let me know when they can sell it at invoice price. He asked his manager and I was told I could get it now if I placed a deposit for a vehicle coming in February (the exact color combo I want). I said "Great, please send me an OTD breakdown". The OTD included invoice+advertising fees of $500+dealer costs (all of which were taxed). The OTD price was just over $36,000. Other dealerships are charging MSRP.
Then I tried TrueCar. No deal there.
Costco, however, had a $500 below invoice set price. I can get an additional $500 off if I purchase what they have on the lot before the end of December :greedy However, I plan to wait and get exactly was I want, since I will be driving it for at least a decade.
I'm hoping a similar offer will happen at the end of January or February because who purchases a FWD sedan in the cold, snowy Northeast during those months?
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.

hudson
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:37 am

A440,
It pays to shop around! ...and that's what you are doing.
OTD price is also a plus. Waiting is a plus! Shop around, learn, and research.
I think that "invoice price" is a game, trick, marketing device or worse used by manufacturers.
I disregard all invoice price talk; it's dishonest. I like to deal with folks that are 100% honest...no stupid games. I'm not going to argue with a salesperson about that; I'm just going to ignore all invoice talk and move on to the next subject. (Note: I only negotiate by phone; I don't want to sit around a dealership and play their games.)
That's why OTD is good. It's real...it's honest. I don't care what they include in the OTD price. I'm going to shop around and compare OTD prices. I want to create an apples to apples comparison between dealers.

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