Retirement Friendly States

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ScubaHogg
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by ScubaHogg » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:23 am

BogleFanGal wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:38 pm
ChrisC wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:40 pm
Glockenspiel wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:20 am
Couldn’t pay me to live in almost any of the southeastern states. I’ll be staying in Minnesota, where it’s beautiful, but just cold enough to keep out the riff-raff.
Bless your heart for staying in MN. :beer
I vote this best post of the thread :D
:P

ScubaHogg
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by ScubaHogg » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:50 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:37 am
EddyB wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:04 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:21 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:19 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:05 pm


I've not seen any studies of that, but the data I'm looking at do not support the idea that state tax rates are significantly correlated with household income.

The chart below uses the state income tax rates from the ten states with the highest rates as well as the seven states with no income tax and compares that to their household income.

Image

Among the top ten states, the Pearson correlation between the two variables is -.075. Among all 17 states, the correlation is .14, meaning that the R-square is about 2%. This doesn't include all 50 states, but there doesn't seem to be a meaningful relationship between state tax rates and state's household income.
Statistics are oftentimes misleading. If you take certain statistical averages (mean, median,,,), there might be no distinct correlation between income and tax rates. However, if we use a common sense, high paying jobs (not average income, but counting high paying jobs only) tend to be more concentrated in places where tax rates are high. For example, CA, MA, NY, NJ, MD,,,
The data I've presented do not seem to support your hypothesis. In the battle between common sense and data, the latter are far more convincing to me. Further, I've seen many with very high paying jobs in low or no tax states.
But in fairness, is it even the right data? Maybe 90th percentile incomes make more sense as a way to judge the claim.
The statement was "income tends to be high where state tax is high." So far, the data do not even come close to supporting that hypothesis. I would do the same analysis for all 50 states, but then someone would point out that some of the states' marginal rates are only paid by extremely high income earners (e.g. $1 million or more in annual income).

It's not as conclusive as hard numbers, but take a look at the map below. Beyond a couple of notable outliers like California and New York, I can't personally see any relationship between state tax rates and income at all. And even then, there are places like Seattle and Las Vegas that are taking a lot of high-paying tech jobs away from the Bay area, and both cities are in states with no income tax at all. But there are a lot of high-paying jobs in Texas, Florida, and Alaska. And many residents of Virginia and North Carolina have some of the highest incomes in the country while those income tax rates are very middle of the road.

Image

To be honest, I suspect that some people may try to justify living in a high tax state with the idea that doing so is enabling them to earn a higher income than otherwise. In some cases, that's certainly true. In others, it's certainly false.
And to pile on, I think it’s worthwhile to point out that the purchasing power of a dollar in different states varies significantly (not just taxes) and that is going to have a big impact on savings, etc. I could earn 20% more in the vibrant parts of California and still be clearly worse off in financial terms, even if didn’t pay a nickel more in taxes.

https://taxfoundation.org/real-value-100-state-2019/

smitcat
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by smitcat » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:16 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:56 pm
smitcat wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:53 pm
Of course taxes matter - I was directly speaking to higher income folks where taxes will be higher so savings will be lower as a result.
Given a choice between saving 50% of $150K or 44% of $600K I would take the lower savings rate of 44% of 600K = $265K every time - even though that also represents paying a whole lot more taxes as well as a lower % of income.
On that point we can robustly agree. I'm not sure how often that actually happens (i.e. four times greater income in the same profession by just changing states), but I suppose that it does occasionally.
In our past we moved from a lower cost of living area to a higher cost of living area - nothing extreme but nonetheless the costs went up noticeably in the new area.
Due to the change these things happened quite rapidly in the new area:
- income went up about 3X
- taxes went up many fold (100's of %)
- expenses (costs) due to the new area went up about 50% to 150% of the past location
- savings were more than doubled from the past location

Results and stuff we learned after a dozen or so years …
- our savings rate as a % of gross salary dropped
- our savings rate per year more than doubled immediately
- savings rate as a % is not critical , savings dollars are
- our new higher cost of living area home has appreciated at a much higher % than the last area home
- our savings against our retirement destination are much higher since our retirement destination is a lower cost
- there are real measurable dollar advantages to having an option to moving to a future lower cost area

Since that first move the numbers continued to change but our savings rate vs gross salary never rose to the 50% or so that it hovered around years back. Although we do not check or track that ratio the last time we did it was something like 44/33/22% (savings/taxes/expenses).
YMMV

ndpage
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by ndpage » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:57 am

ScubaHogg wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:19 am
texasdiver wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:07 pm
You don't live in a "state". You live in a city or community. Living in New York City is not remotely the same thing as say living in Plattsburg on Lake Champlain an hour south of Montreal. Living in Yreka CA in the Siskiyou mountains along the OR border is not remotely the same thing as living in San Diego.
+1. I keep saying this. Dallas probably has more in common with Los Angeles than it does Amarillo. And LA with Dallas than El Centro, CA.
Yep, my analysis was based on SMSA/CMA. So "Texas" for me was DFW, Amarillo, and Texarkana. What Houston or McAllen was like just didn't matter.

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willthrill81
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:21 am

ScubaHogg wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:50 am
And to pile on, I think it’s worthwhile to point out that the purchasing power of a dollar in different states varies significantly (not just taxes) and that is going to have a big impact on savings, etc. I could earn 20% more in the vibrant parts of California and still be clearly worse off in financial terms, even if didn’t pay a nickel more in taxes.
It's the same for us if moved to a different part of our state. If we moved our home and .2 acre lot there, its price tag would increase by a factor of 3-4. And other prices would increase as well. Even if our income went up by 50%, which it certainly would not, we'd still be house poor.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by abuss368 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:33 am

I enjoy reading the top states to retire. Periodically these appear online.
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ChrisC
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by ChrisC » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:45 am

ndpage wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:06 am
seclawyer wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:58 pm
I’m in Chicago and I’m very close to making the same decision. Have personal history in Charlotte, but prefer the Triangle for easing into retirement. Also looking at Loudoun County Virginia and Nashville / Franklin, but Raleigh / Cary are in the lead and likely to win. Reasoning very similar to yours. Driven by data, not anecdotes or emotion. Where in the Triangle have you settled and have your expectations been validated so far?
I used to live in SE DuPage, Downers Grove South district. Now, I am in Cary but Chatham County. My other option was Hillsborough/Mebane which would have been less expensive but more of a drive. I couldnt make Chapel Hill work, the property taxes are very high there compared to elsewhere. If you're coming from the city or Oak Park or Evanston, that wouldn't be an issue. My property tax now is under 1% of market value, but itll probably reset to 1% at the next assessment. One thing here is that a lot of houses sell in 4-5 days, my research paid off because i knew exactly what i wanted and all the comps.

I did look seriously at Charlotte and the SC suburbs, but to me Charlotte is a great place to raise a family, and I don't have kids.

I have friends in Loudon County, but I couldn't afford it in retirement and it was too far north for me. I spent probably 200 nights in Nashville for work from 96-06, the layout is not my thing (Franklin was too far from the airport) but it is really a good option.
Hmmmm, when we were looking at retirement relocation places (and I would have actually preferred to stay in Arlington Virginia where we were living but my wife wanted more trees and space), we seriously looked at Loundon County, Richmond, Chapel Hill - Raleigh/Durham, and Charlotte. We settled in the Charlotte area (Western Union County and are actually 2 miles south of the Queen City). Couldn't be any happier there, especially since my daughter and her family moved closer to us in the SC suburbs of Charlotte, three years ago, from California :happy.

We just did a Tennessee Road Trip to Nashville and Gatlinburg, and I was overwhelmed by the level of mixed commercial/residential project construction going on in Nashville -- reminds me of Arlington County construction in 2005-2009 before the housing bust. I really enjoyed Nashville but not sure it would be a place I'd want to retire -- I'm not a big Country music fan -- though I enjoyed going to the Ryman for the Grand Ole Opry last week; Nashville does have a lot to offer.

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by CyclingDuo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:03 pm

Iowa comes out on top as best state for retirement

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/iowa-co ... 01465.html

Blacktower Financial Management Group reveals rankings for the best and worst states to retire. Chris Thornton, Blacktower Financial Management Group's US Country manager, reveals why the Hawkeye state is number one and why Alaska falls short for retirees.
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Broken Man 1999
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:53 pm

Well, fortunately we won't have to move to a tax-friendly state as we already live in one. No move needed, daughters and grandchildren all live close to us. We are happy just where we are.

Apparently there are many retirees who agree Florida is a good retirement state, as they have been streaming in for years.

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mathwhiz
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by mathwhiz » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:33 pm

The estate tax can be a major issue if you have a lot of money. It's why the rich continue to stream down from New York to Florida. Why pay New York 16% if you can help it?

For all the talk about Florida's summers, I find them a lot more tolerable than winter up north. I hate cold weather and find my tolerance for cold continues to decline as I get older and judging by the population growth, plenty of people continue to agree with me.

Most Floridians know to do summer outdoor activities in the mornings or early evenings after afternoon thunderstorms have cooled things off. Stay inside with AC during the hottest portion of the day. It's not that big a deal.

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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by radiowave » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:42 pm

ChrisC wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:45 am
. . .

Hmmmm, when we were looking at retirement relocation places (and I would have actually preferred to stay in Arlington Virginia where we were living but my wife wanted more trees and space), we seriously looked at Loundon County, Richmond, Chapel Hill - Raleigh/Durham, and Charlotte. We settled in the Charlotte area (Western Union County and are actually 2 miles south of the Queen City). Couldn't be any happier there, especially since my daughter and her family moved closer to us in the SC suburbs of Charlotte, three years ago, from California :happy.

We just did a Tennessee Road Trip to Nashville and Gatlinburg, and I was overwhelmed by the level of mixed commercial/residential project construction going on in Nashville -- reminds me of Arlington County construction in 2005-2009 before the housing bust. I really enjoyed Nashville but not sure it would be a place I'd want to retire -- I'm not a big Country music fan -- though I enjoyed going to the Ryman for the Grand Ole Opry last week; Nashville does have a lot to offer.
I've lived on Charlotte, Chapel Hill/Hillsboro, and Charleston SC. Currently living in a western state. Plan to move back to Chapel Hill area, probably north Chatham county in a couple years. Best balance of local attractions, (UNC and Duke), but approximately 2 hours to the beach or 2 hours or so to the mountains. Yeah, will likely be paying an extra 1k or more on property taxes and an additional 1% state tax. Agree with comment about Charlotte being a family friendly place but really not as appealing for retirement. Charleston has a lot of appeal, but much hotter/humid, lots more bugs, and more threat from hurricanes although I was in Charlotte for Hugo and in Chapel Hill for Fran.
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MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:54 pm

mathwhiz wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:33 pm
The estate tax can be a major issue if you have a lot of money. It's why the rich continue to stream down from New York to Florida. Why pay New York 16% if you can help it?

For all the talk about Florida's summers, I find them a lot more tolerable than winter up north. I hate cold weather and find my tolerance for cold continues to decline as I get older and judging by the population growth, plenty of people continue to agree with me.

Most Floridians know to do summer outdoor activities in the mornings or early evenings after afternoon thunderstorms have cooled things off. Stay inside with AC during the hottest portion of the day. It's not that big a deal.
One may over-dress, but cannot under-dress.

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willthrill81
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:26 pm

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:54 pm
mathwhiz wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:33 pm
The estate tax can be a major issue if you have a lot of money. It's why the rich continue to stream down from New York to Florida. Why pay New York 16% if you can help it?

For all the talk about Florida's summers, I find them a lot more tolerable than winter up north. I hate cold weather and find my tolerance for cold continues to decline as I get older and judging by the population growth, plenty of people continue to agree with me.

Most Floridians know to do summer outdoor activities in the mornings or early evenings after afternoon thunderstorms have cooled things off. Stay inside with AC during the hottest portion of the day. It's not that big a deal.
One may over-dress, but cannot under-dress.
I breathed hot soup in the South for decades and don't care to do so anymore.

Personally, I love winter now that I know how to downhill ski and we live in close proximity to several great ski areas. With proper clothing and equipment, we don't get cold much.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:30 pm

Tee shirts and shorts are my normal garb. If I need something more formal, I'll wear a shirt with a collar.

For weddings and funerals, I will don a pair of pants. Otherwise, not very likely.

I do have a few long-sleeve shirts in my closet, but they seldom see any wear time.

Cold bothers me far more than heat, cold weather makes my bones ache. Probably because of all the breaks in them I have accumulated over the years.

Perhaps I am part reptile, and need the sun.

I am a native Floridian, so the heat is tolerable for me.

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Clamshell
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Clamshell » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:31 pm

JediMisty wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:36 pm
Small Savanna wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:36 pm
We moved to the Atlanta area for work, not specifically for retirement, but discovered that Georgia gives favorable treatment to retirement income. Social security is not taxed and people over 65 get a $65K exemption for other retirement income ($130K for a couple) so we expect that our state income tax burden will be very low when we get to that age. Our county also provides a generous property tax break to seniors.

Other factors: The cost of living isn't cheap by national standards, but is more affordable than California, NY, or the DC area where we moved from. Atlanta is a big enough city that there are things to do. The ocean and the mountains are both close enough for a weekend trip. Winters are mild and summers are actually no worse than DC. When we retire I expect we will spend July and/or August on the lake up north, and go someplace warm for a few weeks in the winter. The wild card is that we don't know where our kids will end up settling down, but it will probably be a direct flight from the world's busiest airport.
+!. I live in New Jersey now. The state tax relief is a "cliff" unlike Georgia's fairer treatment. In NJ, if your income is $1 over the "exemption", you pay tax on the entire income. I find my home state of Florida too hot and also boring. In north Georgia, there are some areas that would be good for hiking, though I haven't figured out where they are relative to the airport. I expect to continue to travel in retirement, so proximity to an airport is important, too.
Wife and I moved to Cherokee County in north GA, to an over 55, this year after 49 years in MA. Happy so far. I turned 70 this year and became retired. Son's family has been in north GA for going on 10 years. Easy proximity to family is indeed #1 by far for us as it is also for our neighbors. "Best Places to Retire" advice probably applicable mainly to those lacking opportunities for becoming near to family. And the $$$ impact can vary greatly according to the individual's mix of income sources and assets so it is good to avoid being surprised I guess.

In addition to the favorable comments about GA for income tax and property tax for oldsters (enormously better than MA) I would add the benefit of zero estate taxation by GA (again way better than MA's). Getting under the $10k federal SALT cutoff or close to it looks feasible. I get the impression that local govt is focused on keeping things affordable too. Services in general are cheaper than back north. Housing cost favorable. In sum, a favorable mix in cost-of-living. Summer heat and humidity pretty tolerable; when retired you can dress for it full time. One other thing is that the area has a plentiful variety of new retail handy due to growth, and ATL airport is 55 miles drive. Medical resources seem pretty good, though strained by recent growth, we'll see. On my last medical appointments in MA I did my best to promote Cherokee Cty to my docs.

JediMisty
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by JediMisty » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:48 pm

Clamshell wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:31 pm
JediMisty wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:36 pm
Small Savanna wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:36 pm
We moved to the Atlanta area for work, not specifically for retirement, but discovered that Georgia gives favorable treatment to retirement income. Social security is not taxed and people over 65 get a $65K exemption for other retirement income ($130K for a couple) so we expect that our state income tax burden will be very low when we get to that age. Our county also provides a generous property tax break to seniors.

Other factors: The cost of living isn't cheap by national standards, but is more affordable than California, NY, or the DC area where we moved from. Atlanta is a big enough city that there are things to do. The ocean and the mountains are both close enough for a weekend trip. Winters are mild and summers are actually no worse than DC. When we retire I expect we will spend July and/or August on the lake up north, and go someplace warm for a few weeks in the winter. The wild card is that we don't know where our kids will end up settling down, but it will probably be a direct flight from the world's busiest airport.
+!. I live in New Jersey now. The state tax relief is a "cliff" unlike Georgia's fairer treatment. In NJ, if your income is $1 over the "exemption", you pay tax on the entire income. I find my home state of Florida too hot and also boring. In north Georgia, there are some areas that would be good for hiking, though I haven't figured out where they are relative to the airport. I expect to continue to travel in retirement, so proximity to an airport is important, too.
Wife and I moved to Cherokee County in north GA, to an over 55, this year after 49 years in MA. Happy so far. I turned 70 this year and became retired. Son's family has been in north GA for going on 10 years. Easy proximity to family is indeed #1 by far for us as it is also for our neighbors. "Best Places to Retire" advice probably applicable mainly to those lacking opportunities for becoming near to family. And the $$$ impact can vary greatly according to the individual's mix of income sources and assets so it is good to avoid being surprised I guess.

In addition to the favorable comments about GA for income tax and property tax for oldsters (enormously better than MA) I would add the benefit of zero estate taxation by GA (again way better than MA's). Getting under the $10k federal SALT cutoff or close to it looks feasible. I get the impression that local govt is focused on keeping things affordable too. Services in general are cheaper than back north. Housing cost favorable. In sum, a favorable mix in cost-of-living. Summer heat and humidity pretty tolerable; when retired you can dress for it full time. One other thing is that the area has a plentiful variety of new retail handy due to growth, and ATL airport is 55 miles drive. Medical resources seem pretty good, though strained by recent growth, we'll see. On my last medical appointments in MA I did my best to promote Cherokee Cty to my docs.
Thanks clamshell. I'll check out Cherokee County. This is very helpful information!

IMO
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by IMO » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:55 pm

LiveSimple wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:07 am
Retirement Friendly States

Folks which states you choose for your retirement and what were the major decisions point for your choosing the state.

Due to retirement income, tax treatment
Due to weather or sue to family and friend
Due to the activities.

As we are thinking on these lines, do want to hear who had the experience or in the planning.
We chose with our weighting/ranking as the following:
1. Activities
2. What we could afford for housing
3. Weather
4. Family/Friends
-But we have family on both sides on the country so no matter what we chose, there was a compromise on this factor.

The retirement income/tax treatment really was the last factor. I think for us, it probably meant a $5k year difference on taxes. But that number is probably insignificant in the big picture. If housing was more expensive in one state, that could mean a much larger difference that makes the $5k yr seem trivial. There are other living/life costs that be higher/lower in a particular state so that can offset or add to the difference. Weather is a very personal thing, some are okay shoveling snow or hiring someone to do that. Some hate being shut in the winter, some hate being shut in the summer heat. Living in Hawaii sounds great, but the costs/inconvenience of flying back to the mainland for elderly parents played into the decision.

Ultimately, it takes a lot of soul searching on where you want to spend your golden years.

OP, didn't you once post a vague where to retire in a walkable neighborhood anywhere (USA/World) ??? One should really narrow down regions of the country vs. a broad question asking "what is the best state for _____________" otherwise it probably isn't that productive.

musicmom
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Where the family is

Post by musicmom » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:07 am

We picked our retirement state based on family proximity.

Our two grown kids live within one hour of us in northern NJ.
Unlikely either will relocate.
We have lived in NJ since childhood. Love almost everything about jersey except cost of real estate and taxes of course.

Age 62, sold large longtime family home with property tax over 10K per year.
Moved 15 miles away to 800sq ft lake house, tax bill just over half of first house.

No mortgage, low-ish taxes....our retirement income is more than sufficient.
Once we decided where to retire, we adjusted to make it doable.
Everyones priorities are different. We're happy to have found our retreat.

texasdiver
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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by texasdiver » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am

We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.

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Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by exoilman » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:20 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:19 am
Depends.

There are states that are very tax friendly that you couldn't pay me to live in.

I'll be staying in Massachusetts.
+1, staying in N.J. :D

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TomatoTomahto
Posts: 9745
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:37 am

texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
What a thoughtful process to pick a locale. Kudos.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

mpnret
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 9:16 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by mpnret » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:27 am

exoilman wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:20 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:19 am
Depends.

There are states that are very tax friendly that you couldn't pay me to live in.

I'll be staying in Massachusetts.
+1, staying in N.J. :D
Looks like I may do the same. The right area in NJ can be a very nice place in retirement. Cost of living may be on the high side but worth it especially if family is here. I looked at some of the supposedly tax savings states in the area and came up empty handed. I first considered PA being it doesn't tax retirement income but that savings is quickly eaten up by the high PA inheritance tax. I also did state income tax returns for DE, NC, SC, WV and all came out higher than NJ at my income.
Last edited by mpnret on Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

cowbman
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by cowbman » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:57 pm

texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
Lots of the FIRE crowd/bloggers are choosing Camas, WA. Funny thing, when I a youth, I was really into Geography. I was trying to find out where to live to minimize taxes, and I quickly narrowed it down to Vancouver, WA for the reasons outlined above. Enjoy!

marcopolo
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by marcopolo » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:25 pm

texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
Interesting approach.

I wonder what the tendency is for future generations to stay close to the family "homestead".

Maybe it varies by family. Our family is scattered all over the country, and a few over seas at various times. The next generation is already scattering wherever their career takes them.

Will having a "homestead", and maybe an expectation to stay close, limit the opportunities they pursue?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

MathIsMyWayr
Posts: 1236
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:47 pm
Location: CA

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:51 pm

marcopolo wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:25 pm
texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
Interesting approach.

I wonder what the tendency is for future generations to stay close to the family "homestead".

Maybe it varies by family. Our family is scattered all over the country, and a few over seas at various times. The next generation is already scattering wherever their career takes them.

Will having a "homestead", and maybe an expectation to stay close, limit the opportunities they pursue?
When young people are ambitious, adventurous, and seeking success, they tend to reach out of the boundaries and explore opportunities. Remember the story of twin Irish brothers during the Great Irish Potato Famine, one crossed the ocean and the other stayed home tilling a meager farm land.

Theseus
Posts: 643
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Theseus » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:57 pm

seclawyer wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:58 pm
I’m in Chicago and I’m very close to making the same decision. Have personal history in Charlotte, but prefer the Triangle for easing into retirement. Also looking at Loudoun County Virginia and Nashville / Franklin, but Raleigh / Cary are in the lead and likely to win. Reasoning very similar to yours. Driven by data, not anecdotes or emotion. Where in the Triangle have you settled and have your expectations been validated so far?
I live in Loudoun County , VA. I love it. I am early retired and still raising kids. But I am not sure it is a good place to move to for retirement, but it all depends on your criteria. But jobs are plenty here. Ton of things to do. Good micro brewery scene. Decent wineries. Access to horse country and close to Shenandoah mountains as well as to DC. Highly educated and diverse demographic. Very well managed county government. Our property taxes have gone lower while services are maintained or increased.

Traffic is a major issue for commuters.

MathIsMyWayr
Posts: 1236
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:47 pm
Location: CA

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:09 pm

Theseus wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:57 pm
seclawyer wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:58 pm
I’m in Chicago and I’m very close to making the same decision. Have personal history in Charlotte, but prefer the Triangle for easing into retirement. Also looking at Loudoun County Virginia and Nashville / Franklin, but Raleigh / Cary are in the lead and likely to win. Reasoning very similar to yours. Driven by data, not anecdotes or emotion. Where in the Triangle have you settled and have your expectations been validated so far?
I live in Loudoun County , VA. I love it. I am early retired and still raising kids. But I am not sure it is a good place to move to for retirement, but it all depends on your criteria. But jobs are plenty here. Ton of things to do. Good micro brewery scene. Decent wineries. Access to horse country and close to Shenandoah mountains as well as to DC. Highly educated and diverse demographic. Very well managed county government. Our property taxes have gone lower while services are maintained or increased.

Traffic is a major issue for commuters.
Is Loudoun County, VA really a retirement friendly area? I believe Bethesda and Rockville are nearby. Both are quite HCOL by any means.

Theseus
Posts: 643
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Theseus » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:26 pm

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:09 pm
Theseus wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:57 pm
seclawyer wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:58 pm
I’m in Chicago and I’m very close to making the same decision. Have personal history in Charlotte, but prefer the Triangle for easing into retirement. Also looking at Loudoun County Virginia and Nashville / Franklin, but Raleigh / Cary are in the lead and likely to win. Reasoning very similar to yours. Driven by data, not anecdotes or emotion. Where in the Triangle have you settled and have your expectations been validated so far?
I live in Loudoun County , VA. I love it. I am early retired and still raising kids. But I am not sure it is a good place to move to for retirement, but it all depends on your criteria. But jobs are plenty here. Ton of things to do. Good micro brewery scene. Decent wineries. Access to horse country and close to Shenandoah mountains as well as to DC. Highly educated and diverse demographic. Very well managed county government. Our property taxes have gone lower while services are maintained or increased.

Traffic is a major issue for commuters.
Is Loudoun County, VA really a retirement friendly area? I believe Bethesda and Rockville are nearby. Both are quite HCOL by any means.
That’s what I said. But it all depends on someone’s criteria of what they want. Taxes are lower than Maryland and Rockville/Bethesda area. But housing is expensive and similarly priced. However it has all the other things that may be important to some people more than just taxes. A lot is dependent on what an individual wants in retirement and what they can afford.

texasdiver
Posts: 3256
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:50 am
Location: Vancouver WA

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by texasdiver » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:47 pm

marcopolo wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:25 pm
texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
Interesting approach.

I wonder what the tendency is for future generations to stay close to the family "homestead".

Maybe it varies by family. Our family is scattered all over the country, and a few over seas at various times. The next generation is already scattering wherever their career takes them.

Will having a "homestead", and maybe an expectation to stay close, limit the opportunities they pursue?
I don't disagree. And we certainly have no intention of clipping their wings or trying to keep them close to home. This is frankly more of an urban/rural issue rather than which specific city or region. We have 3 daughters. Oldest is in college, the other two are in 8th and 11th grade. Who knows what careers they will eventually pursue but everything they are looking at and tossing around suggests urban careers. Had we chosen to relocate to some smaller isolated community that might have worked for us personally, it would have almost certainly meant all 3 daughters moving away for college and careers. By choosing a top 20-ish metro area they at least have the options of pursuing a wide variety of education and career opportunities nearby, or most certainly up in the Seattle area which isn't far. We also definitely wanted to choose a state that had top-quality public university options so that staying near home for school would be viable. Something we have here in WA. Less so if we had decided to move to say Boise ID, Bozeman MT, Duluth MN, or some similar isolated smaller community like those in a state with less investment in higher education.

But I think it is getting harder to fly off and explore opportunities across the country than it might have been a generation ago when we were young. Rents are going through the roof in most big metro areas and mobility seems to be decreasing. If my kids want to go off to California or the east coast or South America or wherever, more power too them. But they at least have the opportunity to stay near home and not be in an economic or cultural wasteland. Peer influence is also something to consider. Had we stayed in TX they would most likely have been following the pattern of most of their HS classmates of going to TX universities (or nearby SEC/Big12 schools in neighboring states and then gravitating towards jobs/internships in Dallas, Austin or Houston. Now that they are in northwest they are much more likely to attend local Northwest universities which will leverage into jobs/internships/opportunities here in the Northwest. Geography isn't destiny but it does matter.

I honestly just didn't want the family geography to center on Texas because we were tired of living there and I don't think it will necessarily be a very sustainable place to build a future over the next couple of generations. It is really in the climate bullseye. Had we stayed there and all our kids decided to stay in the region for college and careers then the entire geography of our family would have shifted for generations and then if grand kids and such happened we would have felt pressure to stay ourselves.

"Homestead" might not be the right word. But I do think geography does matter and we wanted to pick a metro area that would at least provide maximum educational/career opportunities and quality of life for the next generations, not just ourselves. How much easier, for example, would it be for some kid who wanted to move into San Francisco and break into the tech industry if grandma and grandpa were living there and had a nice basement apartment available. That makes the calculation considerably different than the typical snowbird retirement type location search. For us, the most retirement friendly state and location is the one that will provide the most future opportunity for all of our family and future generations, not just me and my wife.

seclawyer
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:44 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by seclawyer » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:03 pm

Theseus states the advantages and disadvantages of Loudoun County as I understand them. (I lived in MD to work in a prior administration.) The imminent extension of the Silver Line to Ashburn is another positive for a retiree who might want decent access to DC, as I would — for recreation certainly, perhaps also occasionally for work (although I would generally work at home when I did work).

Loudoun County is not inexpensive, but Virginia taxes are reasonable and Virginia’s fiscal position is stable, in each case unlike Chicago, Illinois (where I live now). Also of note: Dulles airport is right there, and Amtrak (hence the entire east coast) is one Silver Line fare away.

marcopolo
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by marcopolo » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:18 pm

texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:47 pm
marcopolo wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:25 pm
texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
Interesting approach.

I wonder what the tendency is for future generations to stay close to the family "homestead".

Maybe it varies by family. Our family is scattered all over the country, and a few over seas at various times. The next generation is already scattering wherever their career takes them.

Will having a "homestead", and maybe an expectation to stay close, limit the opportunities they pursue?
I don't disagree. And we certainly have no intention of clipping their wings or trying to keep them close to home. This is frankly more of an urban/rural issue rather than which specific city or region. We have 3 daughters. Oldest is in college, the other two are in 8th and 11th grade. Who knows what careers they will eventually pursue but everything they are looking at and tossing around suggests urban careers. Had we chosen to relocate to some smaller isolated community that might have worked for us personally, it would have almost certainly meant all 3 daughters moving away for college and careers. By choosing a top 20-ish metro area they at least have the options of pursuing a wide variety of education and career opportunities nearby, or most certainly up in the Seattle area which isn't far. We also definitely wanted to choose a state that had top-quality public university options so that staying near home for school would be viable. Something we have here in WA. Less so if we had decided to move to say Boise ID, Bozeman MT, Duluth MN, or some similar isolated smaller community like those in a state with less investment in higher education.

But I think it is getting harder to fly off and explore opportunities across the country than it might have been a generation ago when we were young. Rents are going through the roof in most big metro areas and mobility seems to be decreasing. If my kids want to go off to California or the east coast or South America or wherever, more power too them. But they at least have the opportunity to stay near home and not be in an economic or cultural wasteland. Peer influence is also something to consider. Had we stayed in TX they would most likely have been following the pattern of most of their HS classmates of going to TX universities (or nearby SEC/Big12 schools in neighboring states and then gravitating towards jobs/internships in Dallas, Austin or Houston. Now that they are in northwest they are much more likely to attend local Northwest universities which will leverage into jobs/internships/opportunities here in the Northwest. Geography isn't destiny but it does matter.

I honestly just didn't want the family geography to center on Texas because we were tired of living there and I don't think it will necessarily be a very sustainable place to build a future over the next couple of generations. It is really in the climate bullseye. Had we stayed there and all our kids decided to stay in the region for college and careers then the entire geography of our family would have shifted for generations and then if grand kids and such happened we would have felt pressure to stay ourselves.

"Homestead" might not be the right word. But I do think geography does matter and we wanted to pick a metro area that would at least provide maximum educational/career opportunities and quality of life for the next generations, not just ourselves. How much easier, for example, would it be for some kid who wanted to move into San Francisco and break into the tech industry if grandma and grandpa were living there and had a nice basement apartment available. That makes the calculation considerably different than the typical snowbird retirement type location search. For us, the most retirement friendly state and location is the one that will provide the most future opportunity for all of our family and future generations, not just me and my wife.
Thanks for the explanation. I think your reasoning makes sense. We chose to stay in an urban area with good schools for a few years after we retired so our kids could avail themselves of similar opportunities as you describe.

After one finished college (with internships and jobs in different states) and the other one started college, it became quite clear to us that their career trajectories would likely take many twists and turns. We had no desire to try to chase after them. We could have stayed in the same area to provide a home base. We did seriously consider that. But, in the end we figured life and careers will keep them busy, and we opted to relocate to a very desirable vacation destination with hopes of having future family gatherings here.

As they say, many roads to Dublin.

Best wishes to you and your family.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

IMO
Posts: 704
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by IMO » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:18 am

texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
Appreciate hearing your story. I am curious, with you and your spouse's ability to work most places as an OB, why would you have made the original move to Texas? Seems like moving back to Pacific Northwest and essentially near your parents and extended family would have made more sense from the get go?

My spouse and myself having grown up in large metropolitan areas (with extended families still in those areas), ironically found the opposite thought that we wouldn't want to have our future generations tied to essentially living in the rat race of a large city/metropolitan area. Geography has the potential to be important, and my kid enjoys the outdoors and really doesn't see any appeal to moving to the big cities when he visits family/friends. I have to remind him, unfortunately your career may dictate you end up moving to less than desirable places in the country. I advised him, it may be important to find a spouse that doesn't have family that lives in an undesirable place because your spouse may want to move near family. :?

I must say on the water concern of areas, I always laugh when I hear that concern. I heard it growing up in SoCal and it never stopped development or the desire to continually cram as many people in the area as possible. Didn't change a thing for over 50 years. My parents still get to douse their lush lawn with plenty of cheap water and keep the pool filled. Don't know if those things or other environmental concerns should really be long term concerns on where to live, I mean isn't the Seattle area always under constant threat of earthquakes/tsunami's and volcanic eruptions?

smectym
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 5:07 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by smectym » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:50 am

HueyLD wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:52 am
I indicated that I didn't like poor quality of life and poor quality people.

There are places where residents are very much anti outsiders and very clickish and I consider such people of poor quality.
HueyLD points out a problem retirees considering relocation should take into account. The attitude is silly, in my opinion, but residents of states now experiencing significant population growth through migration often adopt a jaundiced view of newcomers: the “Welcome to Idaho: Now Go Home” bumper-sticker-mentality. Shouldn’t deter anyone from relocating to anywhere one damn well pleases, but some may wish to de-emphasize outsider status by quickly changing those license plates, and not wearing the Dodgers or Yankees cap around Coeur d’Alene.

Others may say the hell with it, I’ll wear my Barry Bonds jersey anywhere I feel like. Just do it “mindfully,” as 2019’s hottest adverb would have you do

texasdiver
Posts: 3256
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:50 am
Location: Vancouver WA

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by texasdiver » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 am

IMO wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:18 am
texasdiver wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:56 am
We actually did the opposite of many here and migrated north towards colder climate, thinking long term about climate change and where we wanted to set up a family "homestead" for our kids and possible grandkids down the road.

My wife's career had brought us to Central Texas a decade earlier although we were never really full-blown Texans. It was the summer of 2011 or 2012 that pretty much finally did it for us in Texas. Just endless relentless heat and about half of Central Texas caught on fire that summer. Set records for the number of days about 100 and number of days about 105. By August our pool was so warm the kids no longer even wanted to go in it. One had to drive at least 500 miles to the New Mexico mountains to find any place under 100 degrees. Looking at the long-term potential water shortages and relentless population growth we just decided it wasn't where we wanted our kids and eventual grandkids to base their lives.

We were still 15 years out from possible early retirement but we wanted to find a city where we could provide our kids a long-term homestead. Some place with a vibrant economy and lots of educational and employment opportunities so they wouldn't be forced away to find economic opportunity. And some place that would be in the sweet spot a generation from now if worst-case climate forecasts come to pass. We wanted to put down roots someplace that would be viable for our grandkids in 50 years. A lot of people on this forum think about multi-generational trusts when it comes to passing down wealth and leaving a legacy. We wanted to do the same thing in terms of location. And also knowing that buying into an expensive metro area might give our kids a foothold that they might not otherwise have if they moved there on their own without roots. My wife is Latino and her notions of a multi-generational home base are somewhat stronger than the typical upscale mobile American.

With me in education and my wife in medicine we could work pretty much anywhere. As a bilingual Spanish speaking family doctor who does OB my wife was in demand literally everywhere. I quickly found that some states were much more friendly to out-of-state teachers than others. MN it turns out is one of the worst. Almost impossible to convert an out-of-state teaching license in that state so while we were initially Minneapolis-curious we wrote off MN. We looked at a variety of Great Lakes area older cities from Duluth to Rochester that are well-placed to be climate sanctuaries in 50 years. But were not impressed with most had to offer in terms of immediate opportunities for our kids. Rocky Mountain cities like Albuquerque and the front range cities in CO were attractive but face long-term drought issues and water.

We ended up focusing mainly on the Pacific Northwest (where I'm from originally) which has abundant water and should be a resilient as any place in terms of climate. While we could have found work in medicine and education pretty much anywhere, maximizing future opportunities for our kids meant looking primarily at the greater Puget Sound (Seattle) and Portland metro areas with consideration of Spokane and Boise as well. We visited pretty much every city in the Northwest from Salt Lake City to Bellingham over a couple of year period and ended up in the greater Vancouver WA area across the river from Portland. That was four years ago. My parents live nearby which made the decision easier and we have lots of extended family in the area which we had none of in TX. But simply in terms of a location to retire we are 100% happy with the decision. We are now about 8-10 years out from our target retirement date (when the youngest daughter is scheduled to graduate college) and we have no intention of ever moving again. We have a much larger house than we really need but we picked it specifically because we have a whole ground floor guest suite in case we wind up needing a mother-in-law apartment for either of our parents who are all in their 80s. Or maybe us in 25 years. If the kids all empty out and don't boomerang then the basement family room and guest bedroom area gets converted to a wood shop where I can build boats.

In terms of taxes. My back of the envelope calculation is that choosing to live in the WA side of the Columbia river means that what we save in state income tax (WA has no income tax, OR has 9.9%) just about pays for our oldest daughter's college tuition at an out-of-state public university. Although the house we bought in WA was nearly double the price of the home we sold in TX our property taxes are almost identical. In other words, the mil rate in the Waco TX area is about double that in the Vancouver area. And if we want to evade sales taxes (which is technically illegal but everyone does it) the Costco, Home Depot, and malls in Portland are 15 minutes away where there is no sales tax. Legally WA residents who shop in OR are supposed to save their receipts and mail in the sales tax the owe to the WA department of revenue, but I doubt more than 0.01% of the population ever does that and that might be a high estimate. Every time I go to the Costco or Home Depot across the river it looks like about 50% of the cars in the parking lot have WA license plates.
Appreciate hearing your story. I am curious, with you and your spouse's ability to work most places as an OB, why would you have made the original move to Texas? Seems like moving back to Pacific Northwest and essentially near your parents and extended family would have made more sense from the get go?

My spouse and myself having grown up in large metropolitan areas (with extended families still in those areas), ironically found the opposite thought that we wouldn't want to have our future generations tied to essentially living in the rat race of a large city/metropolitan area. Geography has the potential to be important, and my kid enjoys the outdoors and really doesn't see any appeal to moving to the big cities when he visits family/friends. I have to remind him, unfortunately your career may dictate you end up moving to less than desirable places in the country. I advised him, it may be important to find a spouse that doesn't have family that lives in an undesirable place because your spouse may want to move near family. :?

I must say on the water concern of areas, I always laugh when I hear that concern. I heard it growing up in SoCal and it never stopped development or the desire to continually cram as many people in the area as possible. Didn't change a thing for over 50 years. My parents still get to douse their lush lawn with plenty of cheap water and keep the pool filled. Don't know if those things or other environmental concerns should really be long term concerns on where to live, I mean isn't the Seattle area always under constant threat of earthquakes/tsunami's and volcanic eruptions?
We moved to Texas for my wife's medical residency right after we got married. You pretty much take what you get when it comes to the residency match but she matched with one of the top primary care residencies in the country in part due to being bilingual and it being Texas. After she graduated she was offered a fairly prestigious faculty and clinical position in Texas. We took an initial interview trip through the Northwest but nothing was as interesting as the positions she was being offered in Texas. A couple years later the oldest kid is in HS and it gets more difficult to move and then before you know it 10 years goes by. The day the oldest graduated from HS we were basically on the road for the Northwest. Literally. We closed on the house the day after her HS graduation. The next youngest was 5 years younger and would be starting 8th grade and we knew that was our best window to make a big move.

Texas was very good to us economically and I don't begrudge our time there. It is a very easy place to make a start and there are lots of opportunities. It is a great place to start out as a young couple looking to get ahead. But in the end it eventually became clear that we weren't really real Texans and were never really going to fit in, especially in a conservative and parochial town like Waco. And it wasn't where we wanted to spend the rest of our lives.

As for large metro areas vs smaller towns. I think there is also a difference between boys and girls. I've found that educated girls are much less likely to be thrilled with the idea of rural living while there is a certain strain of outdoorsy boy that is attracted to outdoor rural careers and things like forestry, wildlife management, agriculture, and outdoor careers in general. Some girls too, but that's more common with boys. None of our 3 daughters are likely going into any careers that are remotely rural in nature. Or even smaller city-oriented like education or medicine. Portland is pretty big but it's no Chicago or Houston or LA. And we live out on the outer edge in what was once a stand-alone town but now is more of a bedroom community. So we have kind of smaller town life on the edge of a larger metro. And we both work nearby so don't have to commute into the city. It's basically upscale small town living without much traffic or hassle (for us anyway) with a major metro area next door. If I was running the gauntlet across the river to Portland every day like many of the neighbors I'd no doubt feel a lot different about the rat race.

texasdiver
Posts: 3256
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:50 am
Location: Vancouver WA

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by texasdiver » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:34 am

smectym wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:50 am
HueyLD wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:52 am
I indicated that I didn't like poor quality of life and poor quality people.

There are places where residents are very much anti outsiders and very clickish and I consider such people of poor quality.
HueyLD points out a problem retirees considering relocation should take into account. The attitude is silly, in my opinion, but residents of states now experiencing significant population growth through migration often adopt a jaundiced view of newcomers: the “Welcome to Idaho: Now Go Home” bumper-sticker-mentality. Shouldn’t deter anyone from relocating to anywhere one damn well pleases, but some may wish to de-emphasize outsider status by quickly changing those license plates, and not wearing the Dodgers or Yankees cap around Coeur d’Alene.

Others may say the hell with it, I’ll wear my Barry Bonds jersey anywhere I feel like. Just do it “mindfully,” as 2019’s hottest adverb would have you do
Honestly, it's often the attitudes of the newcomers that are as much at fault as the locals. Don't move to rural Idaho and then complain that the dining and culture and weather are not up to your refined California standards. And that they just need a Trader Joe's and Whole Foods and wider freeways and nicer master-planned communities with higher standards and less riffraff with trash in their front yards. And then complain about the dairy farms that were there first, and the local hunters who want to cross your property like they've been doing for 3 generations. Because there are a LOT of folks who do that too, whether consciously or unconsciously.

craimund
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:39 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by craimund » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:43 am

Theseus wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:57 pm
seclawyer wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:58 pm
I’m in Chicago and I’m very close to making the same decision. Have personal history in Charlotte, but prefer the Triangle for easing into retirement. Also looking at Loudoun County Virginia and Nashville / Franklin, but Raleigh / Cary are in the lead and likely to win. Reasoning very similar to yours. Driven by data, not anecdotes or emotion. Where in the Triangle have you settled and have your expectations been validated so far?
I live in Loudoun County , VA. I love it. I am early retired and still raising kids. But I am not sure it is a good place to move to for retirement, but it all depends on your criteria. But jobs are plenty here. Ton of things to do. Good micro brewery scene. Decent wineries. Access to horse country and close to Shenandoah mountains as well as to DC. Highly educated and diverse demographic. Very well managed county government. Our property taxes have gone lower while services are maintained or increased.

Traffic is a major issue for commuters.
I live in Stafford County, VA and I am weighing the benefits of staying here in retirement. Lived here for 25+ years and like the local area but the traffic is horrible and the cost of living, while not quite as high as Loudoun, is up there. While taxes in retirement are reasonable (first $25K in retirement income exempt from state taxation, 5.75% highest marginal income tax rate) I also have concerns with recent state political trends which I believe will lead to higher taxes as well as more needless regulation and eventually crime. It's also miserably hot and humid in the summer.
"When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose"-Bob Dylan 1965. "When you think that you've lost everything, you find out you can always lose a little more"-Dylan 1997

Count of Notre Dame
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Count of Notre Dame » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm

LilyFleur wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:26 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 pm
ohai wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm
The top criteria I've seen in retired people are:
1) They already live there and don't want moving stress or leaving familiar community.
2) They move close to where their kids or family live. This is even more important when you get very old and need people to care for you.

I barely know anyone nowdays who moved primarily for tax or financial reasons.
My father in law moved from Southern California to Fairhope, Alabama, but his situation is unique. He is on his second marriage, and does not see his kids more than once per year (and is willing to fly to see them now). He was also tired of California politics as he worked for the city for years and still follows local government.
I cannot imagine seeing my children only once a year. Where they live will be a major factor in where I live.
Absolutely agree. I'm going to stay wherever my daughters end up living.

marcopolo
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by marcopolo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:30 pm

Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm
LilyFleur wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:26 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 pm
ohai wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm
The top criteria I've seen in retired people are:
1) They already live there and don't want moving stress or leaving familiar community.
2) They move close to where their kids or family live. This is even more important when you get very old and need people to care for you.

I barely know anyone nowdays who moved primarily for tax or financial reasons.
My father in law moved from Southern California to Fairhope, Alabama, but his situation is unique. He is on his second marriage, and does not see his kids more than once per year (and is willing to fly to see them now). He was also tired of California politics as he worked for the city for years and still follows local government.
I cannot imagine seeing my children only once a year. Where they live will be a major factor in where I live.
Absolutely agree. I'm going to stay wherever my daughters end up living.
What if they choose different areas of the country?
Will you choose one over the other?
What if they move periodically for career mobility/changes?
Will you chase them around the country?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 4453
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:00 pm

Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm
LilyFleur wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:26 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 pm
ohai wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm
The top criteria I've seen in retired people are:
1) They already live there and don't want moving stress or leaving familiar community.
2) They move close to where their kids or family live. This is even more important when you get very old and need people to care for you.

I barely know anyone nowdays who moved primarily for tax or financial reasons.
My father in law moved from Southern California to Fairhope, Alabama, but his situation is unique. He is on his second marriage, and does not see his kids more than once per year (and is willing to fly to see them now). He was also tired of California politics as he worked for the city for years and still follows local government.
I cannot imagine seeing my children only once a year. Where they live will be a major factor in where I live.
Absolutely agree. I'm going to stay wherever my daughters end up living.
When my grandparents retired, they moved to Florida. They hated it and moved back to MA after a year.

While they claimed they didn't like the hot weather, I've been told by others that it was far more about lack of access to family and friends than anything else. For some reason, they were surprised that relatives didn't head down to visit them more often.
Very Stable Genius

Count of Notre Dame
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Count of Notre Dame » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:10 pm

marcopolo wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:30 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm
LilyFleur wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:26 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 pm
ohai wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm
The top criteria I've seen in retired people are:
1) They already live there and don't want moving stress or leaving familiar community.
2) They move close to where their kids or family live. This is even more important when you get very old and need people to care for you.

I barely know anyone nowdays who moved primarily for tax or financial reasons.
My father in law moved from Southern California to Fairhope, Alabama, but his situation is unique. He is on his second marriage, and does not see his kids more than once per year (and is willing to fly to see them now). He was also tired of California politics as he worked for the city for years and still follows local government.
I cannot imagine seeing my children only once a year. Where they live will be a major factor in where I live.
Absolutely agree. I'm going to stay wherever my daughters end up living.
What if they choose different areas of the country?
Will you choose one over the other?
What if they move periodically for career mobility/changes?
Will you chase them around the country?
All of these things would make me sad! I think when they are ready to have children they will likely want to us around to help :)

User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:21 pm

marcopolo wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:30 pm

What if they choose different areas of the country?
Will you choose one over the other?
What if they move periodically for career mobility/changes?
Will you chase them around the country?
Yup.

We have one in CA and one in FL. Won't live in either state, plus FL one wants to move back to MI someday, and we want to leave...
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

MathIsMyWayr
Posts: 1236
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:47 pm
Location: CA

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:29 pm

marcopolo wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:30 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm
LilyFleur wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:26 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 pm
ohai wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm
The top criteria I've seen in retired people are:
1) They already live there and don't want moving stress or leaving familiar community.
2) They move close to where their kids or family live. This is even more important when you get very old and need people to care for you.

I barely know anyone nowdays who moved primarily for tax or financial reasons.
My father in law moved from Southern California to Fairhope, Alabama, but his situation is unique. He is on his second marriage, and does not see his kids more than once per year (and is willing to fly to see them now). He was also tired of California politics as he worked for the city for years and still follows local government.
I cannot imagine seeing my children only once a year. Where they live will be a major factor in where I live.
Absolutely agree. I'm going to stay wherever my daughters end up living.
What if they choose different areas of the country?
Will you choose one over the other?
What if they move periodically for career mobility/changes?
Will you chase them around the country?
This.
Looking up someone else is the common problem for older people. They become spectators of life, not participants. They have to live their own lives, not somebody else's. Don't talk about your children or grandchildren, but about yourself. At the end of the day, it is your life that counts. When is the last time Jack Bogle talked about his children/ grandchildren?

marcopolo
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by marcopolo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:41 pm

Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:10 pm
marcopolo wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:30 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm
LilyFleur wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:26 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 pm


My father in law moved from Southern California to Fairhope, Alabama, but his situation is unique. He is on his second marriage, and does not see his kids more than once per year (and is willing to fly to see them now). He was also tired of California politics as he worked for the city for years and still follows local government.
I cannot imagine seeing my children only once a year. Where they live will be a major factor in where I live.
Absolutely agree. I'm going to stay wherever my daughters end up living.
What if they choose different areas of the country?
Will you choose one over the other?
What if they move periodically for career mobility/changes?
Will you chase them around the country?
All of these things would make me sad! I think when they are ready to have children they will likely want to us around to help :)
Will knowing that this will make you sad cause them to limit their choices in life? No one wants to disappoint their parents.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

UpperNwGuy
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:46 pm

Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm
LilyFleur wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:26 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:43 pm
ohai wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm
The top criteria I've seen in retired people are:
1) They already live there and don't want moving stress or leaving familiar community.
2) They move close to where their kids or family live. This is even more important when you get very old and need people to care for you.

I barely know anyone nowdays who moved primarily for tax or financial reasons.
My father in law moved from Southern California to Fairhope, Alabama, but his situation is unique. He is on his second marriage, and does not see his kids more than once per year (and is willing to fly to see them now). He was also tired of California politics as he worked for the city for years and still follows local government.
I cannot imagine seeing my children only once a year. Where they live will be a major factor in where I live.
Absolutely agree. I'm going to stay wherever my daughters end up living.
I have three adult children, and they have chosen to live in different parts of the country. One just moved to a different city, and another is likely to move soon. So I have no plans to relocate to be near children. I travel to see them, or they travel to see me.

UpperNwGuy
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:54 pm

craimund wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:43 am
I live in Stafford County, VA and I am weighing the benefits of staying here in retirement. Lived here for 25+ years and like the local area but the traffic is horrible and the cost of living, while not quite as high as Loudoun, is up there. While taxes in retirement are reasonable (first $25K in retirement income exempt from state taxation, 5.75% highest marginal income tax rate) I also have concerns with recent state political trends which I believe will lead to higher taxes as well as more needless regulation and eventually crime. It's also miserably hot and humid in the summer.
Virginia is an excellent example of a purple state that takes the best from both sides of the political spectrum and creates an environment that combines friendliness to business with a strong social consciousness. I congratulate you on your choice of states. As for the heat and humidity in the summer... well, that's a downside for sure, but the mild winters make up for it.

CoastalWinds
Posts: 717
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:28 pm

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by CoastalWinds » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:02 pm

I’ve decided to retire on the atoll from “Castaway”.
Great seafood, friendly surroundings (Wilson), lots of sunshine, and no taxes.

User avatar
bengal22
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:20 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by bengal22 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:44 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:32 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:29 pm
I find that Ohio is very friendly to retirees. When I drive others wave at me and some honk. I feel very welcome. I am glad I chose Ohio where they make you feel your number one
Wrong thing to push, especially this week..

OHOWIHATEOHIOSTATE. :D

GO BLUE!
O-H
I-O
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:03 pm

bengal22 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:44 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:32 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:29 pm
I find that Ohio is very friendly to retirees. When I drive others wave at me and some honk. I feel very welcome. I am glad I chose Ohio where they make you feel your number one
Wrong thing to push, especially this week..

OHOWIHATEOHIOSTATE. :D

GO BLUE!
O-H
I-O
This post has been reported for numerous reasons...

How do you have time to post, aren't there pizzas to deliver?
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

Random Poster
Posts: 1913
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:17 am

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by Random Poster » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:24 pm

texasdiver wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 am
Texas was very good to us economically and I don't begrudge our time there. It is a very easy place to make a start and there are lots of opportunities. It is a great place to start out as a young couple looking to get ahead. But in the end it eventually became clear that we weren't really real Texans and were never really going to fit in, especially in a conservative and parochial town like Waco. And it wasn't where we wanted to spend the rest of our lives.
Sure, but don’t you miss H-E-B?

H-E-B might be the only good thing about where I live now, and it will certainly be the only thing I will miss when I leave.

texasdiver
Posts: 3256
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:50 am
Location: Vancouver WA

Re: Retirement Friendly States

Post by texasdiver » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:11 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:24 pm
texasdiver wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:06 am
Texas was very good to us economically and I don't begrudge our time there. It is a very easy place to make a start and there are lots of opportunities. It is a great place to start out as a young couple looking to get ahead. But in the end it eventually became clear that we weren't really real Texans and were never really going to fit in, especially in a conservative and parochial town like Waco. And it wasn't where we wanted to spend the rest of our lives.
Sure, but don’t you miss H-E-B?

H-E-B might be the only good thing about where I live now, and it will certainly be the only thing I will miss when I leave.
Yes, H-E-B was good. Even better were the H-E-B Central Market stores which beat the pants off Whole Foods. I miss watching the HS football. As a teacher I had dozens and dozens of students go on to play major college ball so I could watch lots of them on Saturdays. That's much rarer out here in WA. October and March were good months in Texas. You could finally open your windows at night and not run the AC 24/7. And I miss all the good family-run Mexican restaurants and taco trucks. After that I start running out of things to miss.

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