My New Car Buying Tips

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theplayer11
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by theplayer11 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:53 am

researcher wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:40 pm
surfstar wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:57 pm
Last purchase we never spoke to the person until we met them in person at the dealer. All email. Went perfectly.
I'm not saying you can't get a decent price and a smooth car-buying process via email only.

I'm simply saying that if you want the BEST opportunity to save the MOST amount of money, picking up the phone and talking with a few sales managers is the way to do it.

If you don't care about saving an extra ~$500 - $1500+, then you should absolutely go the email-only route.
again...disagree that you must use the phone to get best price.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:52 pm

GatorGuy7’s post was timely. I have a similar dilemma, and my situation is also semi-rushed. Actually, I’ve already been managing without my car for longer than I care to remember so time is kind of the essence because I can’t let this go on much longer.

After a lot of research and thought, I decided I want a Toyota because of its history of reliability and longevity. I’ve been planning to buy a 2020 Camry XLE 4 cylinder because I really like that I can get leather without a sunroof, and it has a CD player. Nearby dealers don’t have one yet that fits my criteria (Super White exterior and macadamia leather with no add ons), but I did a search on this link hoping it would be helpful:

www.toyota.com/search-inventory/

My major problem is that only two Camry’s came up with my criteria in my zip, but those show available dates of 11/22/2019 and 12/04/2019. I then put in two other FL zips, one in GA and one in NC. They had the same VIN’s, which apparently means those are the only two that will be available in the entire southeast region (via Southeast Toyota Distributorship) through 12/4/19. I then tried to verify those VIN’s on this link:

www.toyota.com/owners/my-vehicle/vehicle-specification

However, I don’t feel confident it’s a reliable source either. Over the weekend, the details on both VINs came up, but the next day it said “please enter a valid VIN” on one. And I just tried them both again twice. The first time it said “please enter a valid VIN,” and the second time the details did pull up on the one VIN that’s supposedly available on 12/4/19! :confused

Because I need a new car sooner rather than later, I started to wonder if maybe I should just get a 2020 RAV4 XLE Premium, which I also test drove and considered. I then searched on Toyota’s inventory link. Nine came up that fit my criteria in my zip, and others in the southeast, that will supposedly be available starting 11/25/19 through 11/29/19. There were three more from 12/9/19 to 12/11/19, but I don’t want to wait that long. When I tried to verify those VINs (second link), five came up “Please enter a valid Toyota VIN” and one said “Sorry Something Went Wrong. Please try later.” Like the Camry, it seems to change! Miraculously, the details of six of the VINs pulled up, and it shows an order date but not the dealer that ordered it IF that’s even the case. Some dealers and HQ gave me inconsistent answers when I questioned this.

The bottom line is I had the same questions as GatorGuy7, and I feel better that he was able to negotiate via email even though the dealers don’t have his vehicle yet. I’d love to know what kind of proof they gave him that the car for sure is arriving in 30 days because I don’t have a lot of confidence in dates or VINs now. I need to know that the date they give me is at least within a few days give or take of when I’ll get my car. I don’t want them to tell me I can realistically expect a Camry on 11/22/19 and then I don’t see it until 2020. If that the case, I’ll just get a RAV4.

So I’m going to start the email bidding process right away, but I’m starting to wonder if I’d be wasting time and taking a chance only focusing on the Camry. Would it be better to see what kind of response I can get on both cars by using two different email addresses so they don’t know I’m the same person? I’m almost at the point that I’ll buy whichever one I can get first although the Camry was my first choice because I really don’t want a sunroof. But, maybe it will be a blessing in disguise if I buy the RAV4 instead. I’m moving in the spring, and it will give me more flexibility and space whenever I need it later, too. Everyone also tells me they like sitting up higher. Each model has their pros and cons for my life, but I’ve always driven and been happy with a sedan because it’s usually just me in my car, and I don’t typically need to haul a bunch of stuff.

I’d appreciate any advice and words of wisdom regarding my situation and using this strategy.

clip651
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:02 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by clip651 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:18 am

FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:52 pm
GatorGuy7’s post was timely. I have a similar dilemma, and my situation is also semi-rushed. Actually, I’ve already been managing without my car for longer than I care to remember so time is kind of the essence because I can’t let this go on much longer.

After a lot of research and thought, I decided I want a Toyota because of its history of reliability and longevity. I’ve been planning to buy a 2020 Camry XLE 4 cylinder because I really like that I can get leather without a sunroof, and it has a CD player. Nearby dealers don’t have one yet that fits my criteria (Super White exterior and macadamia leather with no add ons), but I did a search on this link hoping it would be helpful:

www.toyota.com/search-inventory/

My major problem is that only two Camry’s came up with my criteria in my zip, but those show available dates of 11/22/2019 and 12/04/2019. I then put in two other FL zips, one in GA and one in NC. They had the same VIN’s, which apparently means those are the only two that will be available in the entire southeast region (via Southeast Toyota Distributorship) through 12/4/19. I then tried to verify those VIN’s on this link:

www.toyota.com/owners/my-vehicle/vehicle-specification

However, I don’t feel confident it’s a reliable source either. Over the weekend, the details on both VINs came up, but the next day it said “please enter a valid VIN” on one. And I just tried them both again twice. The first time it said “please enter a valid VIN,” and the second time the details did pull up on the one VIN that’s supposedly available on 12/4/19! :confused

Because I need a new car sooner rather than later, I started to wonder if maybe I should just get a 2020 RAV4 XLE Premium, which I also test drove and considered. I then searched on Toyota’s inventory link. Nine came up that fit my criteria in my zip, and others in the southeast, that will supposedly be available starting 11/25/19 through 11/29/19. There were three more from 12/9/19 to 12/11/19, but I don’t want to wait that long. When I tried to verify those VINs (second link), five came up “Please enter a valid Toyota VIN” and one said “Sorry Something Went Wrong. Please try later.” Like the Camry, it seems to change! Miraculously, the details of six of the VINs pulled up, and it shows an order date but not the dealer that ordered it IF that’s even the case. Some dealers and HQ gave me inconsistent answers when I questioned this.

The bottom line is I had the same questions as GatorGuy7, and I feel better that he was able to negotiate via email even though the dealers don’t have his vehicle yet. I’d love to know what kind of proof they gave him that the car for sure is arriving in 30 days because I don’t have a lot of confidence in dates or VINs now. I need to know that the date they give me is at least within a few days give or take of when I’ll get my car. I don’t want them to tell me I can realistically expect a Camry on 11/22/19 and then I don’t see it until 2020. If that the case, I’ll just get a RAV4.

So I’m going to start the email bidding process right away, but I’m starting to wonder if I’d be wasting time and taking a chance only focusing on the Camry. Would it be better to see what kind of response I can get on both cars by using two different email addresses so they don’t know I’m the same person? I’m almost at the point that I’ll buy whichever one I can get first although the Camry was my first choice because I really don’t want a sunroof. But, maybe it will be a blessing in disguise if I buy the RAV4 instead. I’m moving in the spring, and it will give me more flexibility and space whenever I need it later, too. Everyone also tells me they like sitting up higher. Each model has their pros and cons for my life, but I’ve always driven and been happy with a sedan because it’s usually just me in my car, and I don’t typically need to haul a bunch of stuff.

I’d appreciate any advice and words of wisdom regarding my situation and using this strategy.
Go test drive both cars again and figure out what you want. You're likely to have the car quite while, so decide what suits you better and pursue that one.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:54 am

clip651 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:18 am
FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:52 pm
GatorGuy7’s post was timely. I have a similar dilemma, and my situation is also semi-rushed. Actually, I’ve already been managing without my car for longer than I care to remember so time is kind of the essence because I can’t let this go on much longer.

After a lot of research and thought, I decided I want a Toyota because of its history of reliability and longevity. I’ve been planning to buy a 2020 Camry XLE 4 cylinder because I really like that I can get leather without a sunroof, and it has a CD player. Nearby dealers don’t have one yet that fits my criteria (Super White exterior and macadamia leather with no add ons), but I did a search on this link hoping it would be helpful:

www.toyota.com/search-inventory/

My major problem is that only two Camry’s came up with my criteria in my zip, but those show available dates of 11/22/2019 and 12/04/2019. I then put in two other FL zips, one in GA and one in NC. They had the same VIN’s, which apparently means those are the only two that will be available in the entire southeast region (via Southeast Toyota Distributorship) through 12/4/19. I then tried to verify those VIN’s on this link:

www.toyota.com/owners/my-vehicle/vehicle-specification

However, I don’t feel confident it’s a reliable source either. Over the weekend, the details on both VINs came up, but the next day it said “please enter a valid VIN” on one. And I just tried them both again twice. The first time it said “please enter a valid VIN,” and the second time the details did pull up on the one VIN that’s supposedly available on 12/4/19! :confused

Because I need a new car sooner rather than later, I started to wonder if maybe I should just get a 2020 RAV4 XLE Premium, which I also test drove and considered. I then searched on Toyota’s inventory link. Nine came up that fit my criteria in my zip, and others in the southeast, that will supposedly be available starting 11/25/19 through 11/29/19. There were three more from 12/9/19 to 12/11/19, but I don’t want to wait that long. When I tried to verify those VINs (second link), five came up “Please enter a valid Toyota VIN” and one said “Sorry Something Went Wrong. Please try later.” Like the Camry, it seems to change! Miraculously, the details of six of the VINs pulled up, and it shows an order date but not the dealer that ordered it IF that’s even the case. Some dealers and HQ gave me inconsistent answers when I questioned this.

The bottom line is I had the same questions as GatorGuy7, and I feel better that he was able to negotiate via email even though the dealers don’t have his vehicle yet. I’d love to know what kind of proof they gave him that the car for sure is arriving in 30 days because I don’t have a lot of confidence in dates or VINs now. I need to know that the date they give me is at least within a few days give or take of when I’ll get my car. I don’t want them to tell me I can realistically expect a Camry on 11/22/19 and then I don’t see it until 2020. If that the case, I’ll just get a RAV4.

So I’m going to start the email bidding process right away, but I’m starting to wonder if I’d be wasting time and taking a chance only focusing on the Camry. Would it be better to see what kind of response I can get on both cars by using two different email addresses so they don’t know I’m the same person? I’m almost at the point that I’ll buy whichever one I can get first although the Camry was my first choice because I really don’t want a sunroof. But, maybe it will be a blessing in disguise if I buy the RAV4 instead. I’m moving in the spring, and it will give me more flexibility and space whenever I need it later, too. Everyone also tells me they like sitting up higher. Each model has their pros and cons for my life, but I’ve always driven and been happy with a sedan because it’s usually just me in my car, and I don’t typically need to haul a bunch of stuff.

I’d appreciate any advice and words of wisdom regarding my situation and using this strategy.
Go test drive both cars again and figure out what you want. You're likely to have the car quite while, so decide what suits you better and pursue that one.
Thanks for your response. I actually have test driven both a few times. There are things I like about each one, but my gut usually tells me to buy the Camry although some days I go back and forth. Nothing these days excites me too much. You brought up an important point – I keep my cars forever so reliability and longevity mean more to me than anything. My current car is 20-years old, and I intend to keep my new car at least that long, which is why this is such an important decision. This could be my last car, too.

The reason for my post is I was concerned that there’s not as much inventory of the Camry’s, at least for exactly what I want. Unless something changes, it looks like there’s only two that meet my criteria that will be available in the southeast region through 12/4/19. The problem is I don’t know if those two are even real or still available based on the stuff I outlined in my post. It’s been very frustrating, but I’m going to start the bidding process today for the Camry. Hopefully then I’ll get some answers and get my new car soon.

hudson
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:02 pm

FinIndyGal,
If there's not much inventory, the bidding process won't work.
If there are only 2 vehicles in the SouthEast, that's not enough.
You'll need to work with a dealer and pretty much pay the dealer what they quote.
If you want a specific car, you'll need to order it or just pay the price.
I've been in your place, I made a change to a widely available vehicle.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 11303
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:01 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:52 pm
GatorGuy7’s post was timely. I have a similar dilemma, and my situation is also semi-rushed. Actually, I’ve already been managing without my car for longer than I care to remember so time is kind of the essence because I can’t let this go on much longer.
Order exactly what you want. They aren't made in Japan and shipped by boat months later. They're made in Kentucky. Not overly far from the Toledo, Ohio plant from which my ordered Wrangler came. Sure, you have to wait a few months. You get exactly what you want and don't pay extra for stuff you don't want. You can negotiate exactly the same way you can for a car on the lot.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:48 pm

hudson wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:02 pm
FinIndyGal,
If there's not much inventory, the bidding process won't work.
If there are only 2 vehicles in the SouthEast, that's not enough.
You'll need to work with a dealer and pretty much pay the dealer what they quote.
If you want a specific car, you'll need to order it or just pay the price.
I've been in your place, I made a change to a widely available vehicle.
Thanks for your feedback. It’s not like I’m trying to get some unusual car. It’s just a 2020 Camry XLE. They have plenty of cars if I fall for their game of paying for expensive add-ons like a panoramic sunroof and maybe colors that aren’t as popular or whatever, but this is what comes up inventory on Toyota’s site:

240 matches before I put in my exterior and interior colors.

13 matches when I selected my colors (super white exterior and tan interior, which I’m adamant about because I live in sunny and hot FL).

2 matches when I narrow that down to no options.

Compare that to the 2020 RAV4 XLE Premium:

1,582 matches when I selected FWD vs. AWD and before I selected exterior or interior colors.

143 matches when I selected my colors.

12 matches when I narrowed that down to no options.

So, it’s really a difference of 10 VIN’s as to exactly what I want, which is basically the color and no add ons. The bottom line is dealers are trying to force consumers to buy all the extra stuff first so they get a higher price.

The only thing I felt would work in my favor as to the Camry is that so many people want CUV’s these days, but maybe I will have to do like you and buy the RAV4 instead since it’s more widely available. Maybe I’ll find later that I’m glad I bought a CUV if I end up doing that.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:52 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:01 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:52 pm
GatorGuy7’s post was timely. I have a similar dilemma, and my situation is also semi-rushed. Actually, I’ve already been managing without my car for longer than I care to remember so time is kind of the essence because I can’t let this go on much longer.
Order exactly what you want. They aren't made in Japan and shipped by boat months later. They're made in Kentucky. Not overly far from the Toledo, Ohio plant from which my ordered Wrangler came. Sure, you have to wait a few months. You get exactly what you want and don't pay extra for stuff you don't want. You can negotiate exactly the same way you can for a car on the lot.
Thanks. It shows that there will be two Camry's available of exactly what I want on 11/25/19 and 12/4/19 IF this information is true. Yesterday that 11/25/19 VIN had an available date of 11/22/19, but whatever! I unfortunately can’t wait a couple of months, but one of the dealers yesterday said that the 2020’s have only been out about 3 weeks so now they’ll be sending more.

psteinx
Posts: 3557
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by psteinx » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:40 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:48 pm
Thanks for your feedback. It’s not like I’m trying to get some unusual car. It’s just a 2020 Camry XLE. They have plenty of cars if I fall for their game of paying for expensive add-ons like a panoramic sunroof and maybe colors that aren’t as popular or whatever, but this is what comes up inventory on Toyota’s site:

240 matches before I put in my exterior and interior colors.

13 matches when I selected my colors (super white exterior and tan interior, which I’m adamant about because I live in sunny and hot FL).

2 matches when I narrow that down to no options.

Compare that to the 2020 RAV4 XLE Premium:

1,582 matches when I selected FWD vs. AWD and before I selected exterior or interior colors.

143 matches when I selected my colors.

12 matches when I narrowed that down to no options.
Err, it seems that YOUR colors aren't so popular - ~5% of Camrys, ~9% of RAV4s.

In general, you have more negotiating leverage if what you want is readily available (i.e. you go with colors/options that are popular). You may find that, for instance, the extra cost of the options is mitigated to a large extent by increased leverage in negotiating for a more popular options package.

Also, as a general aside to folks looking for cars in November/December. Keep in mind that your state/locality *MAY* have extra taxes that are applied on a calendar year basis, and so deferring your purchase until >= Jan 1 may effectively save you quite a bit on taxes - possibly more than you'd save just with decent haggling. (And of course, you can haggle in January, too).

hudson
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:18 pm

FinIndyGal,

If I were in your shoes, I'd use the phone. I'd call say 3 or 4 dealerships and tell them exactly what you want...maybe tell them that you would accept something close. Ask for an out the door price and a description of the vehicle. I wouldn't hesitate to give them my contact information. I'd tell them that I was a serious buyer and that I would be making a purchase in 3 days or whatever deadline you want to set for yourself. I'd write down their name and number....maybe ask for a backup person in case they aren't there. I'd ask for their working hours and days.
I'd take notes on whatever they told me. I'd look at these 3-4 quotes and go from there.

I no longer tell the salespeople that I'm taking bids; I get into that later on the 2d call. I just want an out the door price and details on the vehicle. I don't have much to say to the salesperson. I just want them to know that I'm a serious buyer, and that I am buying in x days. Again, if you are buying a scarce vehicle, you won't have much leverage....except that you are a serious buyer...and there are lots of dealers out there.

Maybe take a look at James Bragg's website and see if you like his car buying package. He'll coach you over the phone if you want.
https://fightingchance.com/

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:54 am

psteinx wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:40 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:48 pm
Thanks for your feedback. It’s not like I’m trying to get some unusual car. It’s just a 2020 Camry XLE. They have plenty of cars if I fall for their game of paying for expensive add-ons like a panoramic sunroof and maybe colors that aren’t as popular or whatever, but this is what comes up inventory on Toyota’s site:

240 matches before I put in my exterior and interior colors.

13 matches when I selected my colors (super white exterior and tan interior, which I’m adamant about because I live in sunny and hot FL).

2 matches when I narrow that down to no options.

Compare that to the 2020 RAV4 XLE Premium:

1,582 matches when I selected FWD vs. AWD and before I selected exterior or interior colors.

143 matches when I selected my colors.

12 matches when I narrowed that down to no options.
Err, it seems that YOUR colors aren't so popular - ~5% of Camrys, ~9% of RAV4s.

In general, you have more negotiating leverage if what you want is readily available (i.e. you go with colors/options that are popular). You may find that, for instance, the extra cost of the options is mitigated to a large extent by increased leverage in negotiating for a more popular options package.

Also, as a general aside to folks looking for cars in November/December. Keep in mind that your state/locality *MAY* have extra taxes that are applied on a calendar year basis, and so deferring your purchase until >= Jan 1 may effectively save you quite a bit on taxes - possibly more than you'd save just with decent haggling. (And of course, you can haggle in January, too).
Thanks, but white is a very popular car down here in Florida. It's my belief that Toyota is holding onto those so they can try to force you to buy the ugly or least popular colors first. :P

Of the 13 Super White's that come up in my zip that are supposedly coming soon, 3 have panoramic GLASS roofs, which is a deal killer. Eight have stuff I don't want like clear paint protection, phone chargers, the ToyoGuard BS, navigation and driver assist. There are a couple that have mats and the one for the trunk that I'd want thrown in anyway but with a lot of the other stuff I don't want. I'm going to start with what I want, with no options because I hate to cave to their games, and see how it goes.

I never knew that about taxes, but it's the same for us all year.
Last edited by FinIndyGal on Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

psteinx
Posts: 3557
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by psteinx » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:12 am

Re: the taxes.

In my state (Missouri), you have to pay sales tax when you buy the car. But you also pay something called personal property taxes on certain stuff, including cars. I don't think it's pro-rated - it's based on what you own on Jan 1 I think, so deferring a purchase until Jan 2 or later can save you a non-trivial amount. I suspect at least some other states are similar.

psteinx
Posts: 3557
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by psteinx » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:15 am

Also, re the colors:

It's understandable that sometimes a popular new vehicle is in short supply (manufacturing constraints, etc.), and thus dealers can command more/negotiate less.

But it's fairly easy for manufacturers to control the color mix of what they DO build, and color preferences don't generally change that quickly. Yes, sometimes companies/dealers/etc do silly things or make mistakes, but I suspect that in general, manufacturers do a reasonable job of creating a mix of colors roughly matching demand, both nationally and within regions. It would generally be foolish for a manufacturer to intentionally and significantly overproduce cars in colors known to be unpopular.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:24 am

hudson wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:18 pm
FinIndyGal,

If I were in your shoes, I'd use the phone. I'd call say 3 or 4 dealerships and tell them exactly what you want...maybe tell them that you would accept something close. Ask for an out the door price and a description of the vehicle. I wouldn't hesitate to give them my contact information. I'd tell them that I was a serious buyer and that I would be making a purchase in 3 days or whatever deadline you want to set for yourself. I'd write down their name and number....maybe ask for a backup person in case they aren't there. I'd ask for their working hours and days.
I'd take notes on whatever they told me. I'd look at these 3-4 quotes and go from there.

I no longer tell the salespeople that I'm taking bids; I get into that later on the 2d call. I just want an out the door price and details on the vehicle. I don't have much to say to the salesperson. I just want them to know that I'm a serious buyer, and that I am buying in x days. Again, if you are buying a scarce vehicle, you won't have much leverage....except that you are a serious buyer...and there are lots of dealers out there.

Maybe take a look at James Bragg's website and see if you like his car buying package. He'll coach you over the phone if you want.
https://fightingchance.com/
I really appreciate your suggestions. I already composed my email for the Camry asking for an OTD price, etc., which I’m sending out today since it’s only ten days from when supposedly one of the two that fit my criteria will be available. I also know me – dealers are going to aggravate me on the phone so I’m going to start with email and then I’ll talk to the ones with the best deal after I narrow some down. I just can’t stand how scummy that industry is so the least I talk to them, the better.

It may be that I have to accept something close to the Super White that I want or maybe I’ll end up just getting a RAV4 since there are a few more that apparently will be available. I actually think I’m going to compose an email for the RAV4 too and send it from a different email address. I’ll word it differently and send it early next week so they don’t know I’m the same person. This way I don’t lose any more time and then I can see which one I can get the best deal on and which one I can get the fastest.

BTW – thanks for the James Bragg link. I actually became familiar with him a couple of years ago and learned a lot after reading countless articles about his approach and insight. He’s one of the reasons I decided to negotiate this way instead of torturing myself by going into dealerships. :wink:

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:56 am

psteinx wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:15 am
Also, re the colors:

It's understandable that sometimes a popular new vehicle is in short supply (manufacturing constraints, etc.), and thus dealers can command more/negotiate less.

But it's fairly easy for manufacturers to control the color mix of what they DO build, and color preferences don't generally change that quickly. Yes, sometimes companies/dealers/etc do silly things or make mistakes, but I suspect that in general, manufacturers do a reasonable job of creating a mix of colors roughly matching demand, both nationally and within regions. It would generally be foolish for a manufacturer to intentionally and significantly overproduce cars in colors known to be unpopular.
Thanks. I agree – I don’t think they’re deliberately overproducing colors that aren’t popular. I do think they’re not making as many of the Super White’s readily available down here as quickly as the others because they know the Super White’s will sell faster. I could be wrong. I feel it’s the same thing with all the stupid options that they’re trying to force people to buy. I guess there’s nothing I trust about that industry so I question everything they do. I’m just glad that I haven’t had to deal with this for 20 years, and I hope to not do it again for at least 20 more years, if ever. I’m over it at this point.

User avatar
BogleFanGal
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by BogleFanGal » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:28 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:56 am
psteinx wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:15 am
Also, re the colors:

It's understandable that sometimes a popular new vehicle is in short supply (manufacturing constraints, etc.), and thus dealers can command more/negotiate less.

But it's fairly easy for manufacturers to control the color mix of what they DO build, and color preferences don't generally change that quickly. Yes, sometimes companies/dealers/etc do silly things or make mistakes, but I suspect that in general, manufacturers do a reasonable job of creating a mix of colors roughly matching demand, both nationally and within regions. It would generally be foolish for a manufacturer to intentionally and significantly overproduce cars in colors known to be unpopular.
Thanks. I agree – I don’t think they’re deliberately overproducing colors that aren’t popular. I do think they’re not making as many of the Super White’s readily available down here as quickly as the others because they know the Super White’s will sell faster. I could be wrong. I feel it’s the same thing with all the stupid options that they’re trying to force people to buy. I guess there’s nothing I trust about that industry so I question everything they do. I’m just glad that I haven’t had to deal with this for 20 years, and I hope to not do it again for at least 20 more years, if ever. I’m over it at this point.
too funny ...I'm shopping for a camry too....and ALL I have been seeing are white cars with almond interior - so. many. white cars. :annoyed I'm open to pretty much any color BUT white - I hate it and won't buy a white car. Just reminds me too much of a rental car, since rental agencies stock white camrys by the boatload. We're looking for black or silver and they're usually grabbed much faster or in higher trims only.
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:26 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:28 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:56 am
psteinx wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:15 am
Also, re the colors:

It's understandable that sometimes a popular new vehicle is in short supply (manufacturing constraints, etc.), and thus dealers can command more/negotiate less.

But it's fairly easy for manufacturers to control the color mix of what they DO build, and color preferences don't generally change that quickly. Yes, sometimes companies/dealers/etc do silly things or make mistakes, but I suspect that in general, manufacturers do a reasonable job of creating a mix of colors roughly matching demand, both nationally and within regions. It would generally be foolish for a manufacturer to intentionally and significantly overproduce cars in colors known to be unpopular.
Thanks. I agree – I don’t think they’re deliberately overproducing colors that aren’t popular. I do think they’re not making as many of the Super White’s readily available down here as quickly as the others because they know the Super White’s will sell faster. I could be wrong. I feel it’s the same thing with all the stupid options that they’re trying to force people to buy. I guess there’s nothing I trust about that industry so I question everything they do. I’m just glad that I haven’t had to deal with this for 20 years, and I hope to not do it again for at least 20 more years, if ever. I’m over it at this point.
too funny ...I'm shopping for a camry too....and ALL I have been seeing are white cars with almond interior - so. many. white cars. :annoyed I'm open to pretty much any color BUT white - I hate it and won't buy a white car. Just reminds me too much of a rental car, since rental agencies stock white camrys by the boatload. We're looking for black or silver and they're usually grabbed much faster or in higher trims only.
What state do you live in? Is it a cold climate? I have a feeling you're going to prove my point that they start with the worst colors for a region and then bring out the best colors for that climate last.

I actually loved how the black with tan leather looked on the Camry, but there are several reasons why I wouldn't buy a black car. You also might change your mind about black and silver after reading this:
www.victimslawyer.com/blog/which-color- ... accidents/

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BogleFanGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by BogleFanGal » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:36 pm

nope...hotter than you-know-where. I didn't say my color preference was LOGICAL lol. It's stupidly illogical - as my late father always used to tell me - he preferred white and could never understand it.

I just see white, I think cheap rental car. Just don't like the way most cars look in white. Thanks for the article link - ring of truth. :D Our last black car was in THREE accidents - none of which were our fault or ticketed to us. Hmmm....

Are you open to purchasing a used 2019 rental? Hertz has a pretty good track record - decent cars - at least from the people I've seen who bought and shared their experiences on BH. They probably have quite a few white camrys with low mileage they're looking to unload if you don't mind basic LE or SE versions.
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:59 pm

hudson wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:18 pm
FinIndyGal,

If I were in your shoes, I'd use the phone. I'd call say 3 or 4 dealerships and tell them exactly what you want...maybe tell them that you would accept something close. Ask for an out the door price and a description of the vehicle. I wouldn't hesitate to give them my contact information. I'd tell them that I was a serious buyer and that I would be making a purchase in 3 days or whatever deadline you want to set for yourself. I'd write down their name and number....maybe ask for a backup person in case they aren't there. I'd ask for their working hours and days.
I'd take notes on whatever they told me. I'd look at these 3-4 quotes and go from there.

I no longer tell the salespeople that I'm taking bids; I get into that later on the 2d call. I just want an out the door price and details on the vehicle. I don't have much to say to the salesperson. I just want them to know that I'm a serious buyer, and that I am buying in x days. Again, if you are buying a scarce vehicle, you won't have much leverage....except that you are a serious buyer...and there are lots of dealers out there.

Maybe take a look at James Bragg's website and see if you like his car buying package. He'll coach you over the phone if you want.
https://fightingchance.com/
Hudson,

Unfortunately, my emails aren’t producing great results so I’m now thinking I need to do it your way. It seems that I read not long ago where someone on a forum said that James Bragg also no longer recommends sending emails, which is different than when I first learned about him in 2017.

I sent emails to my five local dealers yesterday/Friday. Within probably an hour at the most, two responded. I haven’t heard from the other three. MSRP for the exact Camry I want is $30,270. One dealer offered an OTD price of $28,155 with transfer tag. The other $28,875, and he didn’t seem willing to budge at this point. Of course, he’s the dealer that is closest to me, but I don’t like them anyway. Maybe I’m wrong, but I didn’t feel these offers were great, especially considering a lot of people want CUV/SUV’s versus sedans these days.

I guess I should now plan to call the other three dealers on Monday and approach it like you suggested. I’ll let them know I’m a serious buyer, but the first VIN that meets my criteria isn’t supposedly available to any of dealers until 11/25/19 and the second VIN on 12/4/19. Should I say that I’ll be making a purchase by the end of the month or should I still give an X-day deadline because I assume I’ll have to put down a deposit so they can allocate that car to their dealership?

Although my gut tells me to go with the Camry, I’m wondering if in that conversation I should also ask for an OTD price for the RAV4 since evidently there will be more inventory that meets my criteria. The first available for those are 11/25 and 11/28 and about the same time as the Camry.
Last edited by FinIndyGal on Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:59 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:36 pm
nope...hotter than you-know-where. I didn't say my color preference was LOGICAL lol. It's stupidly illogical - as my late father always used to tell me - he preferred white and could never understand it.

I just see white, I think cheap rental car. Just don't like the way most cars look in white. Thanks for the article link - ring of truth. :D Our last black car was in THREE accidents - none of which were our fault or ticketed to us. Hmmm....

Are you open to purchasing a used 2019 rental? Hertz has a pretty good track record - decent cars - at least from the people I've seen who bought and shared their experiences on BH. They probably have quite a few white camrys with low mileage they're looking to unload if you don't mind basic LE or SE versions.
Well, I have to admit it was very tempting for me to consider the black Camry with the tan. I thought the combo was beautiful, but there are too many ramifications for me to want to buy one. I also really like white.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I want to purchase new because I keep my cars forever, and I don’t trust rentals. I also want an XLE because it has leather.

hudson
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:28 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:59 pm
hudson wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:18 pm
FinIndyGal,

If I were in your shoes, I'd use the phone. I'd call say 3 or 4 dealerships and tell them exactly what you want...maybe tell them that you would accept something close. Ask for an out the door price and a description of the vehicle. I wouldn't hesitate to give them my contact information. I'd tell them that I was a serious buyer and that I would be making a purchase in 3 days or whatever deadline you want to set for yourself. I'd write down their name and number....maybe ask for a backup person in case they aren't there. I'd ask for their working hours and days.
I'd take notes on whatever they told me. I'd look at these 3-4 quotes and go from there.

I no longer tell the salespeople that I'm taking bids; I get into that later on the 2d call. I just want an out the door price and details on the vehicle. I don't have much to say to the salesperson. I just want them to know that I'm a serious buyer, and that I am buying in x days. Again, if you are buying a scarce vehicle, you won't have much leverage....except that you are a serious buyer...and there are lots of dealers out there.

Maybe take a look at James Bragg's website and see if you like his car buying package. He'll coach you over the phone if you want.
https://fightingchance.com/
Hudson,

Unfortunately, my emails aren’t producing great results so I’m now thinking I need to do it your way. It seems that I read not long ago where someone on a forum said that James Bragg also no longer recommends sending emails, which is different than when I first learned about him in 2017.

I sent emails to my five local dealers yesterday/Friday. Within probably an hour at the most, two responded. I haven’t heard from the other three. MSRP for the exact Camry I want is $30,270. One dealer offered an OTD price of $28,155 with transfer tag. The other $28,875, and he didn’t seem willing to budge at this point. Of course, he’s the dealer that is closest to me, but I don’t like them anyway. Maybe I’m wrong, but I didn’t feel these offers were great, especially considering a lot of people want CUV/SUV’s versus sedans these days.

I guess I should now plan to call the other three dealers on Monday and approach it like you suggested. I’ll let them know I’m a serious buyer, but the first VIN that meets my criteria isn’t supposedly available to any of dealers until 11/25/19 and the second VIN on 12/4/19. Should I say that I’ll be making a purchase by the end of the month or should I still give an X-day deadline because I assume I’ll have to put down a deposit so they can allocate that car to their dealership?

Although my gut tells me to go with the Camry, I’m wondering if in that conversation I should also ask for an OTD price for the RAV4 since evidently there will be more inventory that meets my criteria. The first available for those are 11/25 and 11/28 and about the same time as the Camry.
FinIndyGal,

On the first call, I don't have much to say; I just want an out the door price for a vehicle that would work for me.
I'd call and try for 5 out the door quotes. I'd take notes on a primary and maybe a backup person and get their contact info and schedule....I'd make that quick and simple. (James Bragg would say to start on Nov. 26th a Tuesday...near the end of the month.)
I'd pick one car and stick with it...at least for starters. Once I had 5 out the door quotes, I'd study the vehicles and prices. I don't know if you can get apples to apples on a scarce vehicle....but get what you can. Select the best deal and start your second round. I do not tell them what I'm doing. My second call says something like, I've selected a vehicle with the best deal at another dealer. It looks like I'm going to buy that one...say today or tomorrow. Then I bite my tongue and don't say another word. I just wait. The salesman knows what to do if he wants your business. He may say, that's the best that I can do...if so, make a note, thank him or her and move to the next call...you may end up with that car. (I don't talk financing or trade or anything until I've made a deal.)
At the end of round 2, look at your notes and see if you see anything that you like and start round 3. Round 3 is anyone that's given you a lower bid in round 2. If they didn't drop, they're out...for now.

With a scarce vehicle, you probably aren't going to work miracles.
Even though I've run this process on 3 Toyotas, I always buy Bragg's package...and most of the time, I'll call and talk to him and get his opinion on any hitches.

I usually call the 5 closest dealers whether I like them or not. I'll like them if they give me a OTD price and a vehicle description. I've learned that over time good dealers become bad dealers and vica-versa.

If you go with the Camry and you later change to the RAV4, I'd call all my contacts and tell them that I've changed vehicles...I want to build trust and rapport with the salespersons.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:36 pm

hudson wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:28 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:59 pm
hudson wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:18 pm
FinIndyGal,

If I were in your shoes, I'd use the phone. I'd call say 3 or 4 dealerships and tell them exactly what you want...maybe tell them that you would accept something close. Ask for an out the door price and a description of the vehicle. I wouldn't hesitate to give them my contact information. I'd tell them that I was a serious buyer and that I would be making a purchase in 3 days or whatever deadline you want to set for yourself. I'd write down their name and number....maybe ask for a backup person in case they aren't there. I'd ask for their working hours and days.
I'd take notes on whatever they told me. I'd look at these 3-4 quotes and go from there.

I no longer tell the salespeople that I'm taking bids; I get into that later on the 2d call. I just want an out the door price and details on the vehicle. I don't have much to say to the salesperson. I just want them to know that I'm a serious buyer, and that I am buying in x days. Again, if you are buying a scarce vehicle, you won't have much leverage....except that you are a serious buyer...and there are lots of dealers out there.

Maybe take a look at James Bragg's website and see if you like his car buying package. He'll coach you over the phone if you want.
https://fightingchance.com/
Hudson,

Unfortunately, my emails aren’t producing great results so I’m now thinking I need to do it your way. It seems that I read not long ago where someone on a forum said that James Bragg also no longer recommends sending emails, which is different than when I first learned about him in 2017.

I sent emails to my five local dealers yesterday/Friday. Within probably an hour at the most, two responded. I haven’t heard from the other three. MSRP for the exact Camry I want is $30,270. One dealer offered an OTD price of $28,155 with transfer tag. The other $28,875, and he didn’t seem willing to budge at this point. Of course, he’s the dealer that is closest to me, but I don’t like them anyway. Maybe I’m wrong, but I didn’t feel these offers were great, especially considering a lot of people want CUV/SUV’s versus sedans these days.

I guess I should now plan to call the other three dealers on Monday and approach it like you suggested. I’ll let them know I’m a serious buyer, but the first VIN that meets my criteria isn’t supposedly available to any of dealers until 11/25/19 and the second VIN on 12/4/19. Should I say that I’ll be making a purchase by the end of the month or should I still give an X-day deadline because I assume I’ll have to put down a deposit so they can allocate that car to their dealership?

Although my gut tells me to go with the Camry, I’m wondering if in that conversation I should also ask for an OTD price for the RAV4 since evidently there will be more inventory that meets my criteria. The first available for those are 11/25 and 11/28 and about the same time as the Camry.
FinIndyGal,

On the first call, I don't have much to say; I just want an out the door price for a vehicle that would work for me.
I'd call and try for 5 out the door quotes. I'd take notes on a primary and maybe a backup person and get their contact info and schedule....I'd make that quick and simple. (James Bragg would say to start on Nov. 26th a Tuesday...near the end of the month.)
I'd pick one car and stick with it...at least for starters. Once I had 5 out the door quotes, I'd study the vehicles and prices. I don't know if you can get apples to apples on a scarce vehicle....but get what you can. Select the best deal and start your second round. I do not tell them what I'm doing. My second call says something like, I've selected a vehicle with the best deal at another dealer. It looks like I'm going to buy that one...say today or tomorrow. Then I bite my tongue and don't say another word. I just wait. The salesman knows what to do if he wants your business. He may say, that's the best that I can do...if so, make a note, thank him or her and move to the next call...you may end up with that car. (I don't talk financing or trade or anything until I've made a deal.)
At the end of round 2, look at your notes and see if you see anything that you like and start round 3. Round 3 is anyone that's given you a lower bid in round 2. If they didn't drop, they're out...for now.

With a scarce vehicle, you probably aren't going to work miracles.
Even though I've run this process on 3 Toyotas, I always buy Bragg's package...and most of the time, I'll call and talk to him and get his opinion on any hitches.

I usually call the 5 closest dealers whether I like them or not. I'll like them if they give me a OTD price and a vehicle description. I've learned that over time good dealers become bad dealers and vica-versa.

If you go with the Camry and you later change to the RAV4, I'd call all my contacts and tell them that I've changed vehicles...I want to build trust and rapport with the salespersons.
Hudson,

Thank you for your kind feedback. I’ve been thinking a lot about this additional fantastic information and have a couple of other questions if you don’t mind.

While I could certainly use a break from this nightmare, should I still wait to make my first calls on Tuesday, 11/26/19, considering the first of the two VINs that meet my exact criteria are going to be available in my zip and the southeast on 11/25/19 (if it’s true)? I'd like to get that first VIN if I can and without anyone test driving it.

Do you ask for the Internet Manager or do you talk to any salesperson that answers?

Can I assume on that first call, or any time they give you a price, that you ask them to email you their quote or do you wait and ask for a written proposal when you get the best price? My concern is that they can give you any quote over the phone and then change it.

BTW - it’s not like a 2020 Camry XLE in Super White exterior with macadamia interior is that scarce. The problem is I don’t want any of their expensive add-ons. They’ll apparently have 13 in my colors beginning 11/25/19 if I fall for their game and pay for things like a panoramic sunroof, the ToyoGuard crap, phone chargers and all the other stuff they want you to buy. The good news is that one of the first available in my colors is without add-ons.

I feel better about using this process considering you’ve done it with three Toyotas. I’m curious – is Bragg's package brand and model specific or is it just a general package?

The hardest part for me is going to be not saying too much and biting my tongue. :annoyed

Thanks again for all your help. I truly appreciate it.

hudson
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:42 pm

FinIndyGal,

If you want to get the first one that comes in, just go for it and pay the price if it suits you. Can you go online and tell which dealer it's going to?

When I call, I ask for the sales manager or internet manager, and I'm happy with anyone they put on the line. I don't insist on anything.

I always assume trust with the dealer....but I don't make a deal or a deposit unless, they send me a formal quote.
When I'm in the bidding stage, I trust them. I had a dealer fudge on the out the door price once; I didn't make a big deal out of it except to let him know that he wasn't playing it straight. I'd still deal with him...but he'd have to really beat the other bidders. That dealer didn't have the best bid anyway.

I understand not wanting the expensive add ons and other add ons to the price. The way you get around that is to pick a readily available car and go through the bidding process. You may get some extra stuff, but you don't have to discuss those details, you only discuss the OTD price. You don't care a bit about those scotch guarded seats.
They get all of there cars from SE Toyota, the dealer has no choice. SE Toyota rules.

Bragg's package is model specific...to the best of my memory. Call him and ask. Either Bragg or his excellent assistant will give you the details.

Again, when I'm buying, I'm very nice and cool, and I don't have much to say except, here's what I want. I think you've got one on your lot that'll work for me with this stuff on it. I'd like to get an out the door price on it. I'm a serious buyer that's going to buy a car in 2 days. I don't complain about anything. I give them my name, number, email, and address. Toyota has me in their database so they can see my Toyota buying history back to 2000. That's round one if I'm going to run the bidding process.

I would never walk into a dealership and ask for a price or try to talk them down. I do not care about the invoice price or the blue book price or any price except for the OTD price. Car salespersons know exactly what that is.

If you run into a dealer that doesn't want to play, thank them and move on. There are plenty of dealers that want to sell you a car...especially at the end of the month or the end of the year. I've found that the largest and slickest dealers near me will only give me one price and that's it. The smaller dealers will usually fight for my business. You never know until you call.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:14 pm

hudson wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:42 pm
FinIndyGal,

If you want to get the first one that comes in, just go for it and pay the price if it suits you. Can you go online and tell which dealer it's going to?

When I call, I ask for the sales manager or internet manager, and I'm happy with anyone they put on the line. I don't insist on anything.

I always assume trust with the dealer....but I don't make a deal or a deposit unless, they send me a formal quote.
When I'm in the bidding stage, I trust them. I had a dealer fudge on the out the door price once; I didn't make a big deal out of it except to let him know that he wasn't playing it straight. I'd still deal with him...but he'd have to really beat the other bidders. That dealer didn't have the best bid anyway.

I understand not wanting the expensive add ons and other add ons to the price. The way you get around that is to pick a readily available car and go through the bidding process. You may get some extra stuff, but you don't have to discuss those details, you only discuss the OTD price. You don't care a bit about those scotch guarded seats.
They get all of there cars from SE Toyota, the dealer has no choice. SE Toyota rules.

Bragg's package is model specific...to the best of my memory. Call him and ask. Either Bragg or his excellent assistant will give you the details.

Again, when I'm buying, I'm very nice and cool, and I don't have much to say except, here's what I want. I think you've got one on your lot that'll work for me with this stuff on it. I'd like to get an out the door price on it. I'm a serious buyer that's going to buy a car in 2 days. I don't complain about anything. I give them my name, number, email, and address. Toyota has me in their database so they can see my Toyota buying history back to 2000. That's round one if I'm going to run the bidding process.

I would never walk into a dealership and ask for a price or try to talk them down. I do not care about the invoice price or the blue book price or any price except for the OTD price. Car salespersons know exactly what that is.

If you run into a dealer that doesn't want to play, thank them and move on. There are plenty of dealers that want to sell you a car...especially at the end of the month or the end of the year. I've found that the largest and slickest dealers near me will only give me one price and that's it. The smaller dealers will usually fight for my business. You never know until you call.
Thanks so much for all your insight.

I want to get the best price that I can so I’ll probably hold off until no later than next Tuesday, but I’m curious how long it’s taken you to get your new car when you use this phone method.

I can’t tell online which dealer is going to get the first available VIN (11/25/19 supposedly), or any of the VIN’s. I’d think someone would know because they have to deliver them somewhere, but I couldn’t get any answers when I tried last week.

I think I’m confused when you say “You may get some extra stuff, but you don't have to discuss those details, you only discuss the OTD price.” I thought I needed to tell them what my exact criteria is (i.e., 2020 Camry XLE, Super White with macadamia leather, and no add-ons). I’ll be more than happy to get extra stuff (especially car and trunk mats) if I’m not charged for them, but they couldn’t give me a panoramic sunroof. In fact, I was thinking that I'd ask them later to throw in mats.

I’m kind of surprised that you’d give them your home address during the bidding process. I don’t see why they’d need it at that point, but maybe I’m not thinking clearly after a long day.

It’s interesting that the largest and slickest dealers near you would only give one price. When I let one of the two dealers who replied with a quote know that his price was significantly higher than anyone else (although it was just one other dealer), he replied and said “Thank you for the opportunity and have a blessed day.” They’re major jerks there anyway, and I think the biggest Toyota dealer in this area. Of course, they’re the one closest to me.

BTW - the other three dealers still haven’t responded to my email so that was a big waste of time.

Thanks again for everything. You're awesome!

hudson
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:54 pm

Toyota builds cars with "extras" on them. Here's a Camry from a Toyota in Tampa...https://www.buyatoyota.com/southeasttoy ... ries=camry

The extras are whatever comes with the car...maybe above a base model.
Before you call a dealer, check the dealer website and pick out a car that you would own. Make a note of it.
Ask for the OTD price for that car. On my vehicles, I want, white, power door locks, XM radio, 4 wheel drive, air conditioning. All of the vehicles that I've purchased have more stuff that I don't want like Toyoguard, paint protection, maybe lane warning beepers. I end up with that stuff, even though I don't want it. All dealers in the Southeast come with that junk. We don't have a choice; the SE Toyota Region has a contract with Toyota and that's how they get their profit. You can talk until you're blue in the face, you will not change it. I tried 4 vehicles ago to buy a truck without that extra junk....no luck. On my last 3 vehicles, I ignored all that fluff and just ran the OTD bid system. That way you shouldn't care what's on the sticker. You're comparing OTD prices.

I've run the OTD bid system and had a deal in 2 days and picked it up on day 3. Last year, I was buying a widely available vehicle that every dealer in my area had on their lot. I called 7 dealers; 4 were interested in making a 2d bid. Two had a short lived bidding war. I told them that I was getting ready to make a decision in a few hours. One of the other dealers under bid them all and I bought from them. Many times, I have upset salespersons or sales managers, but they know that they can get my business with a low bid....although I never tell them I'm doing the bid process. They inherently know.

You could actually call and ask for "2020 Camry XLE, Super White with macadamia leather, and no add-ons) and ask for the closest thing they have. All XLEs might have sun roofs? That info used to be on the SE Toyota website, but I couldn't find it today. Maybe you can find a helpful salesperson who can coach you on what is possible.

Home address: I give it out. I want to build trust. Toyota has my address anyway because I've bought 4 vehicles since 2000 from them. After I make a purchase, I only get one more call from the losing dealers...it's usually from a non-salesperson; they ask if I'm still looking for a car. I tell them no; they leave me alone.

I've gotten bids from the 2 largest dealers in my area for my last 4 vehicles...both just off of interstate highways. They just give one price. They want to talk about free oil changes and free extra warranty stuff, and how wonderful they are. I want to hang up when they do that, but I lay the phone down and wait for them to run out of breath. Then they usually ask, "Are you there." I pause for a moment and give a very low key, "Yes." I'm also ready to tell them, "Thanks! I've got to run!" I always call them back because dealerships change; they may be in a bind and want to make an easy and quick sale with only 15 minutes of sales work.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:47 pm

hudson wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:54 pm
Toyota builds cars with "extras" on them. Here's a Camry from a Toyota in Tampa...https://www.buyatoyota.com/southeasttoy ... ries=camry

The extras are whatever comes with the car...maybe above a base model.
Before you call a dealer, check the dealer website and pick out a car that you would own. Make a note of it.
Ask for the OTD price for that car. On my vehicles, I want, white, power door locks, XM radio, 4 wheel drive, air conditioning. All of the vehicles that I've purchased have more stuff that I don't want like Toyoguard, paint protection, maybe lane warning beepers. I end up with that stuff, even though I don't want it. All dealers in the Southeast come with that junk. We don't have a choice; the SE Toyota Region has a contract with Toyota and that's how they get their profit. You can talk until you're blue in the face, you will not change it. I tried 4 vehicles ago to buy a truck without that extra junk....no luck. On my last 3 vehicles, I ignored all that fluff and just ran the OTD bid system. That way you shouldn't care what's on the sticker. You're comparing OTD prices.

I've run the OTD bid system and had a deal in 2 days and picked it up on day 3. Last year, I was buying a widely available vehicle that every dealer in my area had on their lot. I called 7 dealers; 4 were interested in making a 2d bid. Two had a short lived bidding war. I told them that I was getting ready to make a decision in a few hours. One of the other dealers under bid them all and I bought from them. Many times, I have upset salespersons or sales managers, but they know that they can get my business with a low bid....although I never tell them I'm doing the bid process. They inherently know.

You could actually call and ask for "2020 Camry XLE, Super White with macadamia leather, and no add-ons) and ask for the closest thing they have. All XLEs might have sun roofs? That info used to be on the SE Toyota website, but I couldn't find it today. Maybe you can find a helpful salesperson who can coach you on what is possible.

Home address: I give it out. I want to build trust. Toyota has my address anyway because I've bought 4 vehicles since 2000 from them. After I make a purchase, I only get one more call from the losing dealers...it's usually from a non-salesperson; they ask if I'm still looking for a car. I tell them no; they leave me alone.

I've gotten bids from the 2 largest dealers in my area for my last 4 vehicles...both just off of interstate highways. They just give one price. They want to talk about free oil changes and free extra warranty stuff, and how wonderful they are. I want to hang up when they do that, but I lay the phone down and wait for them to run out of breath. Then they usually ask, "Are you there." I pause for a moment and give a very low key, "Yes." I'm also ready to tell them, "Thanks! I've got to run!" I always call them back because dealerships change; they may be in a bind and want to make an easy and quick sale with only 15 minutes of sales work.
Thanks again, Hudson.

Even though Toyota builds a lot of their cars with extra stuff, they do have some that come without add-ons. The reason I don’t want to wait too long to call is because those are more limited so I’m still debating when I’m going to do that.

Just like I did in my email, I’ll ask for a 2020 Camry XLE, Super White with macadamia leather and no add-ons. Dealers don’t have any Super Whites yet period, unless they got some today.

It sounds like you’re not as stubborn as me about add ons. I know I’m shopping for the best OTD price, but that extra stuff is still going to increase the price…and for stuff I don’t want.

I decided on the XLE four cylinder because it doesn’t come with a sunroof. The V6 does. I feel I know more than their sales people, and I’ve sadly had to bring things to their attention that they didn’t even know.

I’m glad you reminded me that you never tell them you’re doing the bid process. I thought letting dealers know they’re bidding against each other is exactly the concept that James Bragg tells everyone to do, but it’s been a while since I read those articles about him.

hudson
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:00 am

FinIndyGal,
It sounds like you've been doing your homework.

I also always buy white unless there's a better deal in say light grey. I made a deal and put down a deposit with low bidder dealer A for a white vehicle; I learned later that it was at a dealer 200 miles away. Dealer B was the runner up; he was upset that I didn't go with him; he "bought" "my" white vehicle that was 200 miles away hoping that I would go with him. Dealer A told me what happened right away and offered me a grey vehicle that was "worth" $2000 more. I took it.
I was very stubborn about add ons 20 years ago; I learned that the dealer had no voice. They had to buy from SE Toyota; they delivered all of them that way with worthless extras. I found that I was wasting my time; I could have bought a Ford. Bragg speaks to this SE Toyota stuff. If you find a way around it, let me know.

I decided on my own that I get better results without talking about my bidding methods to the dealer. This probably goes against Bragg's advice. I just tell the salesperson exactly what I want and request an OTD price. I never call on weekends or Mondays....always in the last week of the month...usually Tuesday or Wednesday.

Now if I had questions about where my "2020 Camry XLE, Super White with macadamia leather and no add-ons" was I would call completely outside of the bidding process. I'd call and ask for their internet person or sales manager and ask about that vehicle. If I liked that person, I'd get their contact information and call them back for the bid.
I'd ask them how I could get the white camry....or if it was possible.

Every dealership has good, bad, and brand new salespeople. Since you need more information, maybe call around and try to find a good one. When I bought a vehicle in 2000, I got a brand new salesman who knew nothing. He knew about the vehicle that I wanted, but he couldn't speak to the price. He was being coached by the sales manager, who had a word with me before I left. They didn't play the "leave customer in the office" game. We were standing near the exit eyeball to eyeball. He gave me his card and said, "Let me know what I can do to get your business." I left and started my first pre-Bragg bidding process with all of the dealers in the area. I called him weeks later and said, I got this price, can you help me. He quoted a price about $500 lower. I bought it. These people are hard to find...and they are rarely still around when I buy another car.

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:06 pm

hudson wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:00 am
FinIndyGal,
It sounds like you've been doing your homework.

I also always buy white unless there's a better deal in say light grey. I made a deal and put down a deposit with low bidder dealer A for a white vehicle; I learned later that it was at a dealer 200 miles away. Dealer B was the runner up; he was upset that I didn't go with him; he "bought" "my" white vehicle that was 200 miles away hoping that I would go with him. Dealer A told me what happened right away and offered me a grey vehicle that was "worth" $2000 more. I took it.
I was very stubborn about add ons 20 years ago; I learned that the dealer had no voice. They had to buy from SE Toyota; they delivered all of them that way with worthless extras. I found that I was wasting my time; I could have bought a Ford. Bragg speaks to this SE Toyota stuff. If you find a way around it, let me know.

I decided on my own that I get better results without talking about my bidding methods to the dealer. This probably goes against Bragg's advice. I just tell the salesperson exactly what I want and request an OTD price. I never call on weekends or Mondays....always in the last week of the month...usually Tuesday or Wednesday.

Now if I had questions about where my "2020 Camry XLE, Super White with macadamia leather and no add-ons" was I would call completely outside of the bidding process. I'd call and ask for their internet person or sales manager and ask about that vehicle. If I liked that person, I'd get their contact information and call them back for the bid.
I'd ask them how I could get the white camry....or if it was possible.

Every dealership has good, bad, and brand new salespeople. Since you need more information, maybe call around and try to find a good one. When I bought a vehicle in 2000, I got a brand new salesman who knew nothing. He knew about the vehicle that I wanted, but he couldn't speak to the price. He was being coached by the sales manager, who had a word with me before I left. They didn't play the "leave customer in the office" game. We were standing near the exit eyeball to eyeball. He gave me his card and said, "Let me know what I can do to get your business." I left and started my first pre-Bragg bidding process with all of the dealers in the area. I called him weeks later and said, I got this price, can you help me. He quoted a price about $500 lower. I bought it. These people are hard to find...and they are rarely still around when I buy another car.
Thanks, Hudson. I’ll let you know what happens. Maybe I’ll end up with a RAV4 since there seems to be more of those available.

You always mention that YOU want to build trust and rapport with the salespersons. It should be the other way around. Dealers and their staff should be bending over backwards to prove they can be trusted. Sadly, I don’t know of anyone that enjoys buying a new car…for a reason. It’s a scummy industry.

hudson
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:36 pm

FinIndyGal,
Most (salespeople, internet salespeople, and sales managers) that I've been in contact with played it straight. There were only 2 that were questionable.
It's those guys in the back offices that try to sell you maintenance contracts; none of those guys are coming to my birthday party. On my next purchase, I'm going to make that part of the deal....not one word about extended warranty contracts.
Last edited by hudson on Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

theta
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by theta » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:53 pm

What was helpful to me was knowing the “deals” that other folks were getting. That is usually discussed in owner’s forums. Here’s a link to one such forum for Camry owners:

https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/wh ... 18/page-78

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:27 am

hudson wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:36 pm
FinIndyGal,
Most (salespeople, internet salespeople, and sales managers) that I've been in contact with played it straight. There were only 2 that were questionable.
It's those guys in the back offices that try to sell you maintenance contracts; none of those guys are coming to my birthday party. On my next purchase, I'm going to make that part of the deal....not one word about extended warranty contracts.
Exactly. I'd never buy an extended warranty.

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:52 am

theta wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:53 pm
What was helpful to me was knowing the “deals” that other folks were getting. That is usually discussed in owner’s forums. Here’s a link to one such forum for Camry owners:

https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/wh ... 18/page-78
It's so funny that you posted this. I read that thread yesterday and started reading it on the exact same page (78) since it goes back to 2017. :happy
I appreciate you posting the link because I only saw it by accident. It's also good to know that you found it helpful. I'm going to go back and look at it again today, but I found that most posts were about pretty much every model except the one I want (2020 XLE). I'm also going to set up an account today so I can communicate on that site since it seems there's a lot of valuable information on it.

BTW - do you have a new Camry? If so, I'd love to get your feedback about it. Thanks again.

Barkingsparrow
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Barkingsparrow » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:12 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:52 am
theta wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:53 pm
What was helpful to me was knowing the “deals” that other folks were getting. That is usually discussed in owner’s forums. Here’s a link to one such forum for Camry owners:

https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/wh ... 18/page-78
It's so funny that you posted this. I read that thread yesterday and started reading it on the exact same page (78) since it goes back to 2017. :happy
I appreciate you posting the link because I only saw it by accident. It's also good to know that you found it helpful. I'm going to go back and look at it again today, but I found that most posts were about pretty much every model except the one I want (2020 XLE). I'm also going to set up an account today so I can communicate on that site since it seems there's a lot of valuable information on it.

BTW - do you have a new Camry? If so, I'd love to get your feedback about it. Thanks again.
I'm not Theta - but I just purchased a 2020 Camry LE two weeks ago. I wanted a base model with the minimum number of features as possible - e.g. - I did not get the autostart - as to reduce the number of potential future problem spots. I went with the 2020 because it's the 3rd year of the current build cycle and the year that I thought, that would be most reliable.

The current build cycle has the new 8-speed automatic transmission and many people have complained about it. There's been some TBS updates, to the 2018 and 2019 models, to deal with some of these complaints. So far, 500 miles in, the transmission has been relatively smooth - but I'm making an effort to "train" the transmission, by not using cruise control, and by driving more assertively than I normally would.

So far, I'm very happy with the car. It's not all perfect - the Entune 3.0 entertainment system is a bit cumbersome. But that could be that I've just not sat down and studied the manual for it in detail.

surfstar
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by surfstar » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:34 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:06 pm
Thanks, Hudson. I’ll let you know what happens. Maybe I’ll end up with a RAV4 since there seems to be more of those available.
When do you "need" to purchase?
Now - I'd get a 2020 Prius Prime - see my post previously on the kind of deal that can be had on one. TCO would definitely be less than a Camry, with gas savings over its lifetime and lower purchase price with rebates and tax credits. They are also very reliable, with minimum required maintenance, a 10yr/150k mi battery warranty too. Fun to also be able to do local trips entirely on EV. Can recharge overnight (~5.5hrs) on standard 120v outlet. My wife is loving hers.

Or if a Rav4 might work - the 2021 Rav4 Prime could possibly qualify for the largest $7500 Federal tax credit, if the battery size is large enough. Would be more than a Prius or Camry, but much, much bigger cargo area, and newest 2021 tech/safety. Supposed to be out in summer 2020, though...

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:42 pm

Barkingsparrow wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:12 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:52 am
theta wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:53 pm
What was helpful to me was knowing the “deals” that other folks were getting. That is usually discussed in owner’s forums. Here’s a link to one such forum for Camry owners:

https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/wh ... 18/page-78
It's so funny that you posted this. I read that thread yesterday and started reading it on the exact same page (78) since it goes back to 2017. :happy
I appreciate you posting the link because I only saw it by accident. It's also good to know that you found it helpful. I'm going to go back and look at it again today, but I found that most posts were about pretty much every model except the one I want (2020 XLE). I'm also going to set up an account today so I can communicate on that site since it seems there's a lot of valuable information on it.

BTW - do you have a new Camry? If so, I'd love to get your feedback about it. Thanks again.
I'm not Theta - but I just purchased a 2020 Camry LE two weeks ago. I wanted a base model with the minimum number of features as possible - e.g. - I did not get the autostart - as to reduce the number of potential future problem spots. I went with the 2020 because it's the 3rd year of the current build cycle and the year that I thought, that would be most reliable.

The current build cycle has the new 8-speed automatic transmission and many people have complained about it. There's been some TBS updates, to the 2018 and 2019 models, to deal with some of these complaints. So far, 500 miles in, the transmission has been relatively smooth - but I'm making an effort to "train" the transmission, by not using cruise control, and by driving more assertively than I normally would.

So far, I'm very happy with the car. It's not all perfect - the Entune 3.0 entertainment system is a bit cumbersome. But that could be that I've just not sat down and studied the manual for it in detail.
I’m very grateful for your feedback, and I’d obviously welcome anyone’s experience, etc.

I initially thought about the LE because I really don’t want the push-button start for the exact reason you mentioned - I’m concerned about future problems. Unfortunately, I don’t have a choice because I want leather. While I realize I can have Katzkin installed, I’d rather not because it would be my luck that I’ll get a bad install or whatever else could go wrong.

I’m glad you mentioned the autostart thing. I haven’t bought a car in 20 years so I thought it was the same as push-button start until I Googled it. :P

This is the first link that came up, but it appears you have to subscribe to it, which I wouldn’t do. I assume it wouldn’t cause potential issues then correct?
www.toyotaofmassapequany.com/blog/does- ... ote-start/

Like you, I decided to wait and get a 2020 Camry since it’s the third year of the redesign, and my odds seem better for reliability. I’ve just about made myself sick over all the complaints I’ve read about that new 8-speed transmission. I almost decided against a Toyota because of it, but it doesn’t seem like there’s anything else more reliable out there. Lexus isn’t in my price range.

I read on another forum where someone mentioned training the transmission, which is crazy to me! I hope someone at the dealer can show me what to do to mitigate any problems later. I’m curious what you’re doing now to drive more aggressively so I can do the same thing, if it will help.

Thanks again. I’m so relieved that you’re happy with your car. Because the exact car I want (color and no options) seems to be so limited, there are times that I think I should get a RAV4, but my gut always tells me to still get the Camry. It will be interesting to see what ultimately happens.

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:56 pm

surfstar wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:34 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:06 pm
Thanks, Hudson. I’ll let you know what happens. Maybe I’ll end up with a RAV4 since there seems to be more of those available.
When do you "need" to purchase?
Now - I'd get a 2020 Prius Prime - see my post previously on the kind of deal that can be had on one. TCO would definitely be less than a Camry, with gas savings over its lifetime and lower purchase price with rebates and tax credits. They are also very reliable, with minimum required maintenance, a 10yr/150k mi battery warranty too. Fun to also be able to do local trips entirely on EV. Can recharge overnight (~5.5hrs) on standard 120v outlet. My wife is loving hers.

Or if a Rav4 might work - the 2021 Rav4 Prime could possibly qualify for the largest $7500 Federal tax credit, if the battery size is large enough. Would be more than a Prius or Camry, but much, much bigger cargo area, and newest 2021 tech/safety. Supposed to be out in summer 2020, though...
Unfortunately, I need to make a purchase now. I really appreciate your suggestion, but a hybrid doesn’t make financial sense for me because I don’t drive a lot anymore. My car is a 1999, and it only has 79,000 miles on it. I also keep my cars for at least 20 years, and I don’t want to pay for one of those expensive batteries. But, you had me curious so I Googled to see what my favorite mechanic thinks of it. I was actually very surprised that Scotty put it on his top 5 list of “Most reliable Cars of 2018,” and he isn’t usually a fan of hybrids. I’m kind of bummed now that it won’t work in my situation because reliability and longevity are so important to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:50 pm

hudson wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:36 pm
FinIndyGal,
Most (salespeople, internet salespeople, and sales managers) that I've been in contact with played it straight. There were only 2 that were questionable.
It's those guys in the back offices that try to sell you maintenance contracts; none of those guys are coming to my birthday party. On my next purchase, I'm going to make that part of the deal....not one word about extended warranty contracts.
Hudson,

Well, today I used your strategy and called one of the three dealers who didn’t respond to my email. I didn’t have any luck calling either. The operator said she was transferring me to the internet manager, but I’m pretty sure I just got some sales girl in that department. Her phone kept making a weird beeping noise, and I felt someone was listening to our call until I said something about it! Very annoying! She also typed the entire time we talked.

When I told the girl what I wanted, she said she was looking for the specific car to make sure they have it (I knew they didn’t). When she said they have one of the XLE Camry in wind chill pearl (a different white) with ash interior, I said that’s not what I want. I wanted to say that I saw that in their inventory, and it also has a panoramic sunroof and countless other options that I just told you that I don’t want. I find it amazing how this industry doesn’t listen. When I said I assume you can get it, she said her department/internet sales only gives special pricing for certain trim levels and those specials are on the L, LE and SE, and I have to come in for the XLE and speak to an actual sales specialist to get that special pricing for their Black Friday sales inventory event. I nicely said I’m not going to do that, and I want to do it over the phone and if she wants to have someone talk to me that’s good because others will do it on the phone. She said they operate differently, and are family-owned and not corporate, and they like to handle everything in person so they can assist with the pricing of the car and tell me what kind of fees goes into a car deal. When she then proceeded to say that a transfer tag ranges from $150 to $350, I tried hard to bite my tongue, but I kind of indicated it was high by saying “wow.” When she said finance has a system and DMV shoots back a price, I said I know it’s $85 at the DMV to transfer my tag. She then said they can’t make any money on the DMV and legally no dealership can make money off government fees. It was very difficult, but I just let it go although I wanted to let her know that’s exactly what she was trying to do. When I told her I’m not asking for a breakdown, but I just want their lowest OTD price for what I want, she said she can’t give that and just a break down but the breakdown price would be the price of the car, dealer fee of $798 and government fees, which is tax, tag and title. When I again said I just want your best OTD price, she again said that would have to be handled with a specialist in person. I just nicely thanked her and ended the call.

I didn’t make the other two calls because I wanted to sleep on this overnight to think how I want to handle those. Maybe I will have better luck if I wait until next Tuesday, but I was concerned that the one VIN that was supposedly going to be available on 12/4/19 has been replaced with a different VIN with an available date of 12/10/19. It also appears that the other VIN that I thought was going to be available before the end of the month is actually just a temporary and fake VIN. This isn’t a good sign, but I need a car. It may be that I do have to seriously consider the RAV4 instead.

I can’t wait to move to a small town.

hudson
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:06 pm

I've run into exactly the same thing...a dealer that wants to do it their way. If it works for them. That's fine.
Thank you for your time....next dealer.

I always run into those dealers. I can think of 3 within 50 miles of me. They sell lots of cars because I see more cars with their license plate holders than anywhere else. They haven't sold one to me. On the last day of 2012, I bought a Toyota $2000 cheaper than the biggest, slickest, high volume Toyota dealer in my state. I bought $2700 lower than a smaller dealer. Three dealers wanted my business and came within $350 of the lowest OTD price.

You are probably already using this to find dealers: https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Here's the website for SE Toyota. They rule the southeast: https://www.jmfamily.com/about-us#Locations
Maybe call them and see if they can coach you. I've never called them.
Corporate Headquarters
info@jmfamily.com
100 Jim Moran Blvd.
Deerfield Beach, FL 33442
954-429-2000
Website
Facebook

A440
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by A440 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:45 am

surfstar wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:57 pm


I always use 867-5309 for my number, yet none of them get it.
:D "Jenny, Jenny, who can I turn to?" I'll have to use this instead of 555-1212 next time. :sharebeer
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.

A440
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by A440 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:50 am

I emailed one Honda dealer for an OTD price and told them I was considering some other makes/models as well before purchasing. The "noob" that responded acutally asked me for more information about the other makes/models so she could be informed. :shock:
Hmm...Isn't that part of your job to know the competition?? I was tempted to reply with those exact words, but I had grace.
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.

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Blueskies123
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by Blueskies123 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:25 am

A440 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:50 am
I emailed one Honda dealer for an OTD price and told them I was considering some other makes/models as well before purchasing. The "noob" that responded acutally asked me for more information about the other makes/models so she could be informed. :shock:
Hmm...Isn't that part of your job to know the competition?? I was tempted to reply with those exact words, but I had grace.
Actually, she knew what she was doing. First, they want to see how knowledgable you are and how much homework you have done. Secondly, they want to know all the details so they can tell you the negatives the model and trim you are looking at vs their model and trims.
Next time they ask you that question rattle off for several minutes, at a fast pace, the exact model and all the options. Make it sound like you have done a lot of homework and are very knowledgable. It would be best if you fired off two or more models but you have to talk fast and list all the details of each model.
If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging

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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bertilak » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:54 am

surfstar wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:57 pm
I always use 867-5309 for my number, yet none of them get it.
OK, I don't get it either. Can someone please explain it to me?

234-5789 I would get:
Image
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet

researcher
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by researcher » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:58 am

bertilak wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:54 am
surfstar wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:57 pm
I always use 867-5309 for my number, yet none of them get it.
OK, I don't get it either. Can someone please explain it to me?
Here you go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo

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bertilak
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by bertilak » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:04 am

researcher wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:58 am
bertilak wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:54 am
surfstar wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:57 pm
I always use 867-5309 for my number, yet none of them get it.
OK, I don't get it either. Can someone please explain it to me?
Here you go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo
Thanks!

Looks like I was on the right track, but at a different station.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet

FinIndyGal
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Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:13 pm

hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:06 pm
I've run into exactly the same thing...a dealer that wants to do it their way. If it works for them. That's fine.
Thank you for your time....next dealer.

I always run into those dealers. I can think of 3 within 50 miles of me. They sell lots of cars because I see more cars with their license plate holders than anywhere else. They haven't sold one to me. On the last day of 2012, I bought a Toyota $2000 cheaper than the biggest, slickest, high volume Toyota dealer in my state. I bought $2700 lower than a smaller dealer. Three dealers wanted my business and came within $350 of the lowest OTD price.

You are probably already using this to find dealers: https://www.toyota.com/dealers/

Here's the website for SE Toyota. They rule the southeast: https://www.jmfamily.com/about-us#Locations
Maybe call them and see if they can coach you. I've never called them.
Corporate Headquarters
info@jmfamily.com
100 Jim Moran Blvd.
Deerfield Beach, FL 33442
954-429-2000
Website
Facebook
Hudson,

Thanks so much for being so nice and for the additional information. Before contacting dealers via email or phone on Friday, I did call SE Toyota. The guy was really nice, but he basically said I need to talk to a dealer to locate the exact car I want and acted like he doesn’t have access to that information. Whatever!

I’m trying to find out on a Toyota forum what other people paid or what they consider a good price for a 2020 Toyota Camry XLE, 4 cylinder, with no packages or accessories added. I’ll be paying cash, and I won’t trade-in. In the meantime, I’d be very grateful to you and anyone who can give me feedback on the initial quotes I received below so I know how to proceed. I’d like to get the best price I can sooner rather than later so I can sign the deal, get my new car and move on. :sharebeer

After receiving quotes, I Googled current cash back rebates, and this is the first link that came up. They all include the trim Camry I’d get:
www.roundrocktoyota.com/global-incentiv ... b0c6dd.htm

My questions are:
Should applicable cash back rebates be included in their OTD price or should those be over and above?
Can I assume the Loyalty offer of $500 is for current Toyota owners? I’ve never owned a Toyota.
What are Affiliate offers? There are two - $750 and $500. I don’t know if these would apply to me.

It appears these will at least apply to me: Manufacturer Offers of $1,000 Cash Back On Select 2020 Toyota Camry and $500 Cash Back On Select 2020 Toyota Models.

MSRP is $30,270 for my exact criteria per Toyota’s website. Florida’s sales tax is 6% on the total purchase price of the car (not on the fees), plus a county surcharge of 1% up to $5k ($50.00). The real cost at the DMV to transfer my current Florida registration and license plate to my new car is $4.60, and it’s $78.25 to transfer the title of the new car to me.

I contacted eight dealers and requested an OTD price, inclusive of all fees, taxes, title, and license plate transfer. Two sent a breakdown of the OTD price even though I didn’t initially request it. I’m glad they did because it appears cash back rebates are included in at least #4’s OTD price and my guess all of them. My concern is some included every possible rebate even though the financing, recent college grad, military and lease won’t apply to me.

Dealers don’t have exactly what I want yet (color combo and no options) so only four gave me quotes. The others weren’t interested until they have that car even though it will be available for them to get in a few days.

These are the quotes I received. The first two dealers are considered local to me. I don’t know if their quotes included the above rebates:

Dealer #1
“We do not have the color combination you requested in stock. However we can get one here for you with in 10-14 business days if you decide to do business with us. Your cash out the door price will be $28154.94 with a transfer tag.”

He’s about 20 miles/30 minutes away. His was the best quote, and I like that he seemed the most honest and willing to get what I want instead of trying to sell me what he has on his lot. He was also the only one that said “We appreciate the opportunity to earn your business.”

When I asked him Friday to provide a breakdown and where the car is coming from, he said it’s coming straight from port by truck, which I like because I don’t want a car driven from wherever and miles put on it. However, it bothers me that he didn’t provide the breakdown I asked for so I don’t know how to handle that now or what to make of it.

Dealer #2
Instead of initially giving me an OTD price, he kept asking what price they need to be at to earn my business. After pulling teeth, he finally replied “$28,700 out the door plus your tag. Good luck on beating that.” When I said I requested a total OTD price, which includes everything, his next reply was $28,700 + $175 transfer tag = $28,875 out the door.” He didn’t pursue it when I indicated he was higher than #1 before he added the transfer tag.

They’re only two miles from my house, which would be convenient considering my car isn’t operating, but, at a minimum, I don’t like their cocky attitudes or the games they play. I test drove a 2019 Camry there because I discovered when I arrived that they lied on the phone and didn’t have a 2020 XLE. They’re awful. I also don’t know where they’d get this car or the miles on it.

The below two dealers are about three hours away where I’m moving. I was just curious what the difference would be considering it’s a smaller town:

Dealer #3
“$29,139.41 out-the-door assuming you have a FL plate to transfer.”

When I asked, he replied “I have not included options the breakdown goes as follows:
Sale Price $26,292.00
Dealer Fee $899
Taxes $1690.91
Electronic filling fee $157.50
Tag transfer fee (estimate) $100
Total out the door $29,139.41

We have provided you with a real out the door offer as you requested, everything you see listed above is standard, we took add on stuff off (like apperance package), usually dealers like to give customers that are shopping multiple dealers unrealistic prices to change it up as soon as you come in they try to jerk you around. We do not want to pull your leg so we are providing realistc pricing on the vehicle you requested, we are not applying all rebates which can be deceiving bc most custoemr don't qualify for military rebates college grads etc. I do not have the car at this store, I do have it at one of our sister stores (we have 5 stores). It takes me 24 hours to get it here.”

My concerns are I don’t know where the car will be coming from or how many miles will be put on it (my preference is off the truck like #1). I also don’t trust that he shows “estimate” for the tag transfer fee, which means he could later charge anything even though there’s no question that the real cost at the DMV to transfer my plate is $4.60 – no more, no less!

Dealer #4
PDF/proposal/buyer's order was sent. Description shows 2020 Camry, but not XLE although his reply email says XLE.

List price $31,866
*Savings $6,699.43 (then down at the very bottom it says “*Savings includes all applicable rebates & discounts.”)
Vehicle purchase price $25,166.57
Window tint $499
Pinstripe $149
Splash guard $399
Ghost arbor $199
Door edge guards $299
Subtotal $26,711.57
**Pre-delivery service charge $899 (down at very bottom “**…inspecting, cleaning & adjusting vehicles, and preparing documents.”)
State & local taxes $1,718.12
Total license & fees $643.50
Total sales/cash price $29,972.19

“Payment” to the right shows “Finance.”

Not only is this dealer the highest, but my gut tells me he’s the one who added every possible rebate regardless if they apply to me. And what the heck does “Ghost arbor $199” mean!? I also don’t like that I had to pull these responses out of him:

“We currently do not have the requested color combination in our inventory. The vehicle was chosen as it is the same price as one we would order for you. We would find a vehicle to your exact specifications and have it brought to our dealership. We have a special driver service that brings them and whatever the mileage is on the vehicle is gifted to you and added to the warranty.”

When I had to ask again what he means by the vehicle was chosen, he replied “The MSRP of the vehicle I sent over is the same as the MSRP of the Camry we would be bringing in for you so it still serves as a great starting point as far as price comparisons go. As far as the options go, all our vehicles are sold with everything that is listed in the proposal I sent over. I think you will find that even after adding everything in we will still be competitive with our pricing.”

I’m paying cash so I asked again about "finance" under "Payment” when he neglected to answer it the first time. He finally said “It's just how the proposal prints out. It automatically gives that option but then just leaves it blank when it's a cash deal.”

I feel there are too many red flags in his responses. I also don’t like that it appears they’ll order what I want but add on what they want me to buy, and I have no idea where the car will come from or the miles.
Last edited by FinIndyGal on Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

smalliebigs
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:48 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by smalliebigs » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:25 pm

I've built a relationship with the sales guy. I just rock up, with my employee discount, ask him what they're trying to get rid of via incentives, and just lease that. I get very good deals.

hudson
Posts: 2358
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by hudson » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:27 pm

FinIndyGal,
Wow! You're really doing your homework.
I can't speak to Camry prices. In a few weeks, you'll be the expert.

To me the OTD price is what I need to pay to drive off the lot...and not a penny more. All dealers and sales folks know exactly what that means; I've had one try to fudge on that. If the fudger had been the lowest bidder, he would have to be a lot lower for me to drive to his place.

When I get down to the end of the process, that's when I make sure that the winning dealer has everything right...before I put down a deposit....usually $300-$500. I ask for some kind of document by email. When I'm sure about the vehicle, and I've got the VIN and maybe a copy of the sticker on the car, or a printout, and maybe some kind of official quote, that's when I'm ready to "shake hands". Once I make a deal, I'll stick with it, even if another dealer comes in late and lower. At the end of my bidding process, I'm usually down to 2-3 dealers. Then I give them a deadline. I'll say, I'm going to make a final decision at 6PM this evening. I'm ready to get my vehicle. They know that if they want to make a better price, it should be by then.

The rebate should be in the OTD price. I only dealt with Toyota rebates. If I qualified for any other rebate, that would be worked out before the OTD price was quoted.

When the car you want is available...then you can start the negotiations.

I don't worry whether I like them or not. If they want my business, they'll name me an OTD price. I don't really dwell on what's included in the OTD. I might double check on the rebates....but I don't care what their dealer fees are....I don't care if they add extra charges for anything. I'm pretty much just looking at the OTD price....on a vehicle that I've specified.

surfstar
Posts: 2068
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by surfstar » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:02 pm

FinIndyGal wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:13 pm
What are Affiliate offers? There are two - $750 and $500. I don’t know if these would apply to me.
If you don't mind signing up for Uber, you can get that $750 offer - https://www.toyotaofnaperville.com/uber ... incentive/
The terms are you must be an "active" Uber driver - no requirement to actually drive anyone at all. Just sign up, pass background check, car inspection, and get an active account status. Show to dealer - $750 off.

These are Manu. incentives also, so negotiate your lowest price prior to bringing them up. Don't let the salesperson try and add the incentive in as a "discount".
My wife became a USA Triathlon and Uber member for an extra $1250 off her Prius Prime last month :mrgreen:
FYI - the process can take a few days to weeks, reportedly. We lucked out and it was days, with the "active" status being the day before we purchased.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:38 am

hudson wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:27 pm
FinIndyGal,
Wow! You're really doing your homework.
I can't speak to Camry prices. In a few weeks, you'll be the expert.

To me the OTD price is what I need to pay to drive off the lot...and not a penny more. All dealers and sales folks know exactly what that means; I've had one try to fudge on that. If the fudger had been the lowest bidder, he would have to be a lot lower for me to drive to his place.

When I get down to the end of the process, that's when I make sure that the winning dealer has everything right...before I put down a deposit....usually $300-$500. I ask for some kind of document by email. When I'm sure about the vehicle, and I've got the VIN and maybe a copy of the sticker on the car, or a printout, and maybe some kind of official quote, that's when I'm ready to "shake hands". Once I make a deal, I'll stick with it, even if another dealer comes in late and lower. At the end of my bidding process, I'm usually down to 2-3 dealers. Then I give them a deadline. I'll say, I'm going to make a final decision at 6PM this evening. I'm ready to get my vehicle. They know that if they want to make a better price, it should be by then.

The rebate should be in the OTD price. I only dealt with Toyota rebates. If I qualified for any other rebate, that would be worked out before the OTD price was quoted.

When the car you want is available...then you can start the negotiations.

I don't worry whether I like them or not. If they want my business, they'll name me an OTD price. I don't really dwell on what's included in the OTD. I might double check on the rebates....but I don't care what their dealer fees are....I don't care if they add extra charges for anything. I'm pretty much just looking at the OTD price....on a vehicle that I've specified.
Thanks, Hudson, for continuing to help me.

This process hasn’t been working for me because dealers currently have colors and options I don’t want, but there will be a few of my criteria Camry available any day. Maybe I’ll see if I can find the invoice price, but I don’t see any reason why I wouldn’t go with Dealer #1. He’s the lowest at $28,154.94 OTD and $720.06 less than #2 although I don’t have the breakdown or details from either. I can also get what I want (no options) with Dealer #1 and it goes to him on a truck directly from port so I assume it will have probably 0 or a couple miles on it. However, a HUGE problem is where he’s located because my car isn’t operating so would you tell him that they have to deliver the car and throw in mats and/or window tint? Or maybe I should go back to Dealer #2 and see if I can get them to go lower than #1’s price or match it? Even though I don’t like or trust #2, it would be A LOT easier since they’re two miles from me. I’m also moving in the spring.

If I don’t have #1 or #2 secure it now just before it gets to the port, there’s no telling where it will go, and there aren’t that many that will be available. I don’t want to risk it ending up in Miami or wherever and then someone has to drive it to my location.

The good news is the Camry I want will finally be available soon, but it shows on Toyota’s website that the RAV4 XLE Premium is available now. Sometimes I wonder if someone is trying to tell me something and that maybe I should get a RAV4. I initially considered it and it appears those will be more plentiful than the Camry, at least in the color combo I want with no options. I’ve only had one round of emails, and I don’t know if the lowest OTD price I got for the Camry ($28,154.94) is a good price. I was hoping for a better deal considering sedans aren't that popular now. The MSRP for the RAV4 I'd want is $30,910 vs. $30,270 for the Camry so a $640 difference. I just don't know how much off MSRP I can get on the RAV4. I’d love to know opinions on this before I pull the trigger. I see pros and cons to both.

I feel better knowing rebates should be in the OTD price, but can I assume you don’t technically receive the rebate in cash later and they take it off the purchase price, which is my preference? Neither of my two local dealers stated in their email that rebates were part of their OTD price. I appreciate that you keep pounding in my brain that you just look at the OTD price, and it sounds like you don’t ask if rebates, options or anything else is included.

Thanks again, and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

FinIndyGal
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: My New Car Buying Tips

Post by FinIndyGal » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:49 am

surfstar wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:02 pm
FinIndyGal wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:13 pm
What are Affiliate offers? There are two - $750 and $500. I don’t know if these would apply to me.
If you don't mind signing up for Uber, you can get that $750 offer - https://www.toyotaofnaperville.com/uber ... incentive/
The terms are you must be an "active" Uber driver - no requirement to actually drive anyone at all. Just sign up, pass background check, car inspection, and get an active account status. Show to dealer - $750 off.

These are Manu. incentives also, so negotiate your lowest price prior to bringing them up. Don't let the salesperson try and add the incentive in as a "discount".
My wife became a USA Triathlon and Uber member for an extra $1250 off her Prius Prime last month :mrgreen:
FYI - the process can take a few days to weeks, reportedly. We lucked out and it was days, with the "active" status being the day before we purchased.
I appreciate you helping me understand the affiliate offers because I now know those won’t be applicable to me. Unfortunately, I don’t have time to wait for a background check, etc., and my car isn’t operating at the moment for an inspection.

I’m kind of confused about the manufacturer incentives. Hudson said those should be in the OTD price, but what I’ll do is bring those up after I see that I have the lowest price. The good news is neither of the two lowest dealers nor I mentioned rebates. Were your incentives ultimately in your deal or did you get actual cash back after you got your car? Thanks for your insight.

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