Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

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thatme
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Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:27 am

My wife and I purchased a new 2018 Ford Expedition Max in early 2019. Got a good deal for buying the last year’s model, but it’s still the priciest vehicle we’ve ever purchased, easily. We need such a large vehicle because we have six kids, ages 13-infant. We had a Honda Pilot for kids 1-4 and it was fine, but once 5 came, it became cramped. For 6, it seems like the only real choices are Expedition or Suburban. I’ve always been a Toyota or Honda buyer and this was the first new Ford product I’ve ever purchased. I didn’t get the Suburban because it seemed a bit outdated and the one anecdotal experience I knew of was my boss who had transmission issues with hers.

Fast forward to a month ago - the transmission goes out in our new Expedition, at approximately 13K miles. It’s shifting very poorly, LOUD clunks and JERKS between certain gears, etc. I take it to Ford, they’ve been working on it, can’t figure out the problem. It’s currently slated for a full disassembly of the transmission next week. Now that I’ve had this issue I’ve found people having lots of similar problems with the F-150, which shares a motor and trans with the Expedition. In my state, the Lemon Law kicks in after four failed repair attempts OR 30 days in the shop. 30 days will be here in about a week and based on current estimates, they won’t even begin the tear down process for another 7 days. I assume it’s going to be over the 30 days in the shop number. Has anyone successfully pursued a lemon law claim? I did some searches and didn’t find much on the forum about an actual claim such as this (lots of hit on “lemon” for 5+ year old cars experiencing problems). From what I’ve read they will typically offer to either buy the car back with a deduction for mileage traveled or replace the car. I’m pretty down on the vehicle and expectation of reliability at this point and would consider moving back to Toyota if possible. My concern is that taxes and registration were $8,500 on this vehicle and I don’t want to lose that, plus have to pay a per mileage penalty. I assume if they were going to replace the vehicle they would figure out how to negate the tax/registration impact. Any experiences with this? Any idea what the per mileage penalty is? It’s not clear from anything I’ve read online.

A related question - if I did move back to the Toyota Sequoia, it’s decidedly smaller than the Expedition Max. Has anyone had one with six kids? The idea was to have the Expedition for 9 years, at which time the oldest four would be through high school and then we likely wouldn’t need such a large vehicle, so longevity was the second most important factor upon purchase other than size. Outside of the recent transmission troubles my wife generally likes the Expedition, but I know both of us have lost faith in it at this point. Maybe we can recover that, but I’m not sure.

AZAttorney11
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by AZAttorney11 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:52 am

You need to find an attorney in your state who does lemon law litigation. They are out there. Google is your friend for a legal issue like this insofar as finding an attorney. It’s almost certainly going to be a solo practitioner or small firm that does lots of consumer rights type of work. I’d find a few names and start making calls today so you are fully aware of your rights and remedies. This issue is very state specific so avoid the arm chair lawyers who have anecdotes about their cousin who got a free Ferrari by doing X, Y, and Z. Many (maybe all?) states provide for a full recovery of attorney’s fees to the consumer if you prevail on your claim.

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:00 am

One of the problems with this type of issue is the perception that "lots" of these issues exist. Since people rarely post of their joy at having a trouble-free vehicle, online perspectives are tremendously slanted to the negative.

I frequent an F-150 forum with huge traffic, and I can tell you that there is not any abundance of issues with the 10 speed transmission, if that's what you are referring to.

As to Lemon Law claims, as noted each state is different. Note that once you get a lawyer, the car company will stop talking with you. I would suggest that at 30 days you reach out to Ford Corporate and get a case opened. Mention things like "I'm concerned about my family's safety if my wife and 6 kids are left stranded on the side of a highway", etc.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by bob60014 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:20 am

13k miles? You can always ask though results may vary, rather than having them tear down the tranny, tell them to put in a new one, with full warranty of course.

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sk2101
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by sk2101 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:26 am

I been on the other side, at an auto manufacturer where we did pay lots of lemon law claims. In some of the claims paid there was compensation for full price paid plus taxes and registration, so you can certainly ask for that. Also, is the dealership providing you with a loaner car while the car is being repaired? They should.

You need an attorney specialized in lemon law to push the right buttons and make Ford come to a settlement quickly. I would not accept a new vehicle exchange and push for a cash compensation. I like the Sequoia idea. Good luck!

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:38 am

AZAttorney11 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:52 am
You need to find an attorney in your state who does lemon law litigation. They are out there. Google is your friend for a legal issue like this insofar as finding an attorney. It’s almost certainly going to be a solo practitioner or small firm that does lots of consumer rights type of work. I’d find a few names and start making calls today so you are fully aware of your rights and remedies. This issue is very state specific so avoid the arm chair lawyers who have anecdotes about their cousin who got a free Ferrari by doing X, Y, and Z. Many (maybe all?) states provide for a full recovery of attorney’s fees to the consumer if you prevail on your claim.
Thanks for the advice. I’m also an attorney, but this is well outside of my comfort area. I’ll ask around for some recs. For the time being I’m just sitting tight, researching a bit assuming that we make it to the 30 day mark.

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Nate79
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by Nate79 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:39 am

Every state has different and specific lemon law rules. Most don't require an attorney. Just follow the rules but expect the manufacturer to fight it.

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:40 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:00 am
One of the problems with this type of issue is the perception that "lots" of these issues exist. Since people rarely post of their joy at having a trouble-free vehicle, online perspectives are tremendously slanted to the negative.

I frequent an F-150 forum with huge traffic, and I can tell you that there is not any abundance of issues with the 10 speed transmission, if that's what you are referring to.
That’s a fair point. It is the 10-speed trans. I did read there’s an ongoing class action related to a similar, but slightly different, issue in the 10-speed. It sounded like it was earlier versions though, as in 2017, whereas mine was manufactured in mid-late 2018 so I assumed that things were resolved. Could just be a fluke as well, I totally acknowledge that.

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:42 am

sk2101 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:26 am
I been on the other side, at an auto manufacturer where we did pay lots of lemon law claims. In some of the claims paid there was compensation for full price paid plus taxes and registration, so you can certainly ask for that. Also, is the dealership providing you with a loaner car while the car is being repaired? They should.

You need an attorney specialized in lemon law to push the right buttons and make Ford come to a settlement quickly. I would not accept a new vehicle exchange and push for a cash compensation. I like the Sequoia idea. Good luck!
They did provide us with a loaner, but it’s a smaller vehicle (Explorer, only seats six) and it’s been a huge hassle. If we all go anywhere we need to take two cars (my car only seats 7). I’m hoping it’s resolved soon, but the dealer doesn’t seem to have any Expedition loaners, which I do understand.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:47 am

thatme wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:40 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:00 am
One of the problems with this type of issue is the perception that "lots" of these issues exist. Since people rarely post of their joy at having a trouble-free vehicle, online perspectives are tremendously slanted to the negative.

I frequent an F-150 forum with huge traffic, and I can tell you that there is not any abundance of issues with the 10 speed transmission, if that's what you are referring to.
That’s a fair point. It is the 10-speed trans. I did read there’s an ongoing class action related to a similar, but slightly different, issue in the 10-speed. It sounded like it was earlier versions though, as in 2017, whereas mine was manufactured in mid-late 2018 so I assumed that things were resolved. Could just be a fluke as well, I totally acknowledge that.
Note also that this transmission was developed by Ford and GM. It is available in multiple models of each manufacturer.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:51 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:47 am
thatme wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:40 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:00 am
One of the problems with this type of issue is the perception that "lots" of these issues exist. Since people rarely post of their joy at having a trouble-free vehicle, online perspectives are tremendously slanted to the negative.

I frequent an F-150 forum with huge traffic, and I can tell you that there is not any abundance of issues with the 10 speed transmission, if that's what you are referring to.
That’s a fair point. It is the 10-speed trans. I did read there’s an ongoing class action related to a similar, but slightly different, issue in the 10-speed. It sounded like it was earlier versions though, as in 2017, whereas mine was manufactured in mid-late 2018 so I assumed that things were resolved. Could just be a fluke as well, I totally acknowledge that.
Note also that this transmission was developed by Ford and GM. It is available in multiple models of each manufacturer.
Yep, I did find that out. That’s one of the reasons that I’ve continued to keep the Suburban off of my list of possible replacements. At this point I’m only interested in either keeping my current vehicle or trading to the Toyota.

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by galawdawg » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:04 am

thatme wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:38 am
AZAttorney11 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:52 am
You need to find an attorney in your state who does lemon law litigation. They are out there. Google is your friend for a legal issue like this insofar as finding an attorney. It’s almost certainly going to be a solo practitioner or small firm that does lots of consumer rights type of work. I’d find a few names and start making calls today so you are fully aware of your rights and remedies. This issue is very state specific so avoid the arm chair lawyers who have anecdotes about their cousin who got a free Ferrari by doing X, Y, and Z. Many (maybe all?) states provide for a full recovery of attorney’s fees to the consumer if you prevail on your claim.
Thanks for the advice. I’m also an attorney, but this is well outside of my comfort area. I’ll ask around for some recs. For the time being I’m just sitting tight, researching a bit assuming that we make it to the 30 day mark.
If you are still in Colorado, you may want to look at C.R.S. § 42-10-103. It provides in 103(1) that "If the manufacturer, its agent, or its authorized dealer is unable to conform the motor vehicle to the warranty by repairing or correcting the defect or condition which substantially impairs the use and market value of such motor vehicle after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer shall, at its option, replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle or accept return of the motor vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price, including the sales tax, license fees, and registration fees and any similar governmental charges, less a reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the motor vehicle. " But it also appears that section 103(2)(a)(II) requires written prior notice of the defect to the manufacturer by certified mail before the presumption that a reasonable attempt to repair has been made arises. Have you sent a notice certified mail? As I'm not admitted to Colorado, I don't know how that subsection has been applied and whether the thirty day out-of-service provision would begin running prior to that notice being sent if you haven't already sent it. Obviously there may also be caselaw that would help guide your decisions.

Perhaps you could schedule a meeting with the owner of the dealership, give him your business card (assuming you are in private practice and not in government service), and express your concerns along with your reasonable requests, such as replacement of the transmission and a loaner vehicle that is the equivalent to your out-of-service vehicle. They may need to provide you with a rental car allowance sufficient to rent an Expedition or equivalent. In the meantime, I'd go ahead and send out that certified notice if you haven't already done so. Perhaps taking a copy of that letter to the dealership for your meeting would help them move this along to a satisfactory conclusion.

Good luck.

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:27 am

galawdawg wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:04 am
thatme wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:38 am
AZAttorney11 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:52 am
You need to find an attorney in your state who does lemon law litigation. They are out there. Google is your friend for a legal issue like this insofar as finding an attorney. It’s almost certainly going to be a solo practitioner or small firm that does lots of consumer rights type of work. I’d find a few names and start making calls today so you are fully aware of your rights and remedies. This issue is very state specific so avoid the arm chair lawyers who have anecdotes about their cousin who got a free Ferrari by doing X, Y, and Z. Many (maybe all?) states provide for a full recovery of attorney’s fees to the consumer if you prevail on your claim.
Thanks for the advice. I’m also an attorney, but this is well outside of my comfort area. I’ll ask around for some recs. For the time being I’m just sitting tight, researching a bit assuming that we make it to the 30 day mark.
If you are still in Colorado, you may want to look at C.R.S. § 42-10-103. It provides in 103(1) that "If the manufacturer, its agent, or its authorized dealer is unable to conform the motor vehicle to the warranty by repairing or correcting the defect or condition which substantially impairs the use and market value of such motor vehicle after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer shall, at its option, replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle or accept return of the motor vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price, including the sales tax, license fees, and registration fees and any similar governmental charges, less a reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the motor vehicle. " But it also appears that section 103(2)(a)(II) requires written prior notice of the defect to the manufacturer by certified mail before the presumption that a reasonable attempt to repair has been made arises. Have you sent a notice certified mail? As I'm not admitted to Colorado, I don't know how that subsection has been applied and whether the thirty day out-of-service provision would begin running prior to that notice being sent if you haven't already sent it. Obviously there may also be caselaw that would help guide your decisions.

Perhaps you could schedule a meeting with the owner of the dealership, give him your business card (assuming you are in private practice and not in government service), and express your concerns along with your reasonable requests, such as replacement of the transmission and a loaner vehicle that is the equivalent to your out-of-service vehicle. They may need to provide you with a rental car allowance sufficient to rent an Expedition or equivalent. In the meantime, I'd go ahead and send out that certified notice if you haven't already done so. Perhaps taking a copy of that letter to the dealership for your meeting would help them move this along to a satisfactory conclusion.

Good luck.

Thanks, and yes, I’m in Colorado still. At this point we’re at day ~22 in the process so we’re not there yet. It’s possible they tear it down, figure out the issue quickly, and we don’t hit 30 days, at which point it doesn’t matter. I’ll likely reach out to Corporate if we’re still in this same position in 10 days. The loaner car thing is annoying but the service manager has been good to me and kept me updated (my original service “adviser” was terrible so I elevated to the service manager and he’s been much better), so I’d rather not elevate further at the moment. We typically only drive somewhere “all together” on the weekend anyway so hopefully this is resolved in the span of a few more weekends and it’s not a huge deal. My wife already said, we’re not going to Thanksgiving at so and so’s house if we have to drive two cars - which I considered a net positive on balance. :happy

scophreak
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by scophreak » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:42 am

I am not a lawyer, but common sense would argue that if the vehicle was taken to the dealership for repair then proper "notice" has been given as to the documented repair attempt. Not sure how one could argue otherwise. Of course, I'm often confused at how the law and common sense can often be at odds with one another :oops:

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:55 am

scophreak wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:42 am
I am not a lawyer, but common sense would argue that if the vehicle was taken to the dealership for repair then proper "notice" has been given as to the documented repair attempt. Not sure how one could argue otherwise. Of course, I'm often confused at how the law and common sense can often be at odds with one another :oops:
I think the point of the notice requirement is to ward off someone simply suing Ford, rather than trying to resolve it with them first. In my instance it’s a single repair of 30+ days, which is pretty obvious, but lots of times people have to aggregate numerous visits, etc.

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FlyAF
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by FlyAF » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:04 am

Out of curiosity, is the dealer aware that they're "on the clock?" Also note that the 30 days is 30 business days, not just days.

It varies drastically by state, but I'd be surprised if simply 30 days in the shop is enough to satisfy all lemon law requirements in your state for full replacement/refund. In my state, that one metric would not even get you close.

stl717
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by stl717 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:18 am

Have you been over this forum? These guys may be able to help more than here (no offense fellow BH's)

https://www.expeditionforum.com/forums/ ... esent.110/

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:26 am

FlyAF wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:04 am
Out of curiosity, is the dealer aware that they're "on the clock?" Also note that the 30 days is 30 business days, not just days.

It varies drastically by state, but I'd be surprised if simply 30 days in the shop is enough to satisfy all lemon law requirements in your state for full replacement/refund. In my state, that one metric would not even get you close.
Doesn't matter if they are aware or not.

Yes, it's 30 business days.

And yes, it's enough. "... out of service for repairs for a cumulative total of thirty (30) or more business days during the warranty term, or one year after original delivery, whichever comes first".

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/ ... ealers.pdf
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by snackdog » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:29 am

Your note and every response so far seems to assume the car is doomed to decades of breakdown and appropriate for a lemon lawsuit.

I would be pushing like hell on the dealer to fix it, like within a day or two. Even if it takes them 45 days to fix, as long as you have some sort of loaner it is a whole lot less hassle than going through lemon lawsuits. That is a nuclear option you are bringing out after the enemy fired a single stray bullet. Let them fix your transmission.

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FlyAF
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by FlyAF » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:33 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:26 am
FlyAF wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:04 am
Out of curiosity, is the dealer aware that they're "on the clock?" Also note that the 30 days is 30 business days, not just days.

It varies drastically by state, but I'd be surprised if simply 30 days in the shop is enough to satisfy all lemon law requirements in your state for full replacement/refund. In my state, that one metric would not even get you close.
Doesn't matter if they are aware or not.

Yes, it's 30 business days.

And yes, it's enough. "... out of service for repairs for a cumulative total of thirty (30) or more business days during the warranty term, or one year after original delivery, whichever comes first".

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/ ... ealers.pdf
I realize that it doesn't matter if the dealer knows that they're on the clock or not. Hence why I prefaced that with the fact that I was simply curious. I'd be curious to know if the dealer would change how they handle anything if this had been discussed (impossible to know I realize).

I too know how to use google and found that link, which is where I picked up the business days part. That said, I doubt the entirety of CO's lemon laws can be summed up nicely in less than a 1 page document. Cars go into the shop for more than 30 days ALL THE TIME. I'd be absolutely astonished if all of the vehicles that happened to in CO were eligible for full replacement/refund.

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:36 am

FlyAF wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:33 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:26 am
FlyAF wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:04 am
Out of curiosity, is the dealer aware that they're "on the clock?" Also note that the 30 days is 30 business days, not just days.

It varies drastically by state, but I'd be surprised if simply 30 days in the shop is enough to satisfy all lemon law requirements in your state for full replacement/refund. In my state, that one metric would not even get you close.
Doesn't matter if they are aware or not.

Yes, it's 30 business days.

And yes, it's enough. "... out of service for repairs for a cumulative total of thirty (30) or more business days during the warranty term, or one year after original delivery, whichever comes first".

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/ ... ealers.pdf
I realize that it doesn't matter if the dealer knows that they're on the clock or not. Hence why I prefaced that with the fact that I was simply curious. I'd be curious to know if the dealer would change how they handle anything if this had been discussed (impossible to know I realize).

I too know how to use google and found that link, which is where I picked up the business days part. That said, I doubt the entirety of CO's lemon laws can be summed up nicely in less than a 1 page document. Cars go into the shop for more than 30 days ALL THE TIME. I'd be absolutely astonished if all of the vehicles that happened to in CO were eligible for full replacement/refund.
I disagree with the last part of that - I’ve never had a repair take more than a day or two, with the exception of body work and accident damage, which obviously is different. Plus, it’s 30 days within the first 365 days of ownership - so a relatively limited time window. Frankly, I just want the car back and repaired properly, I just don’t have a ton of confidence that will happen. At the very least, once this is resolved (assuming it is fixed), I will request some additional mileage warranty on the transmission as that seems only fair in my opinion.

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by Luckywon » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:50 pm

I was successful in getting the manufacturer to buy back a vehicle in California. I did not retain an attorney, though I spoke to several. I was leery of the retainer agreements they presented, which held me responsible for costs if they were unsuccessful, so I was glad I did not need to retain one. Once I mentioned to the manufacturer that I was speaking to an attorney, they were quick to offer to buy the vehicle back. In California, the law provides for attorney fees and costs in addition to the vehicle buy back, so the manufacturer does have an incentive to not see an attorney involved.

The manufacturer refunded all payments made, including taxes and registration, minus a mileage allowance. They also refunded a prorated amount of a tire service contract I had purchased. To me it was a far better outcome than a successful repair of the car.

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:59 pm

I would let the process play out. You will most likely get a new transmission. It will continue to have the full drive train warranty.

Our Ford dealer is booked out 3+ weeks, so I understand the difficulties getting it in and fixed. No fun.

Other than gas, the loaner is like free miles. Drive it as much as you can. The problem with any single vehicle is the law of averages does not apply to a single vehicle. Even the most reliable of reliable vehicles overall have spot issues.

We have a Ford Fusion and a Ford Flex. The Power Transfer Unit on the Flex went out at 70k miles. Ford replaced under warranty. I read that this is a problem with the PTU on the Flex. I was out a car for 1 day, so nothing like what you are experiencing.

We had a super reliable 2007 Honda Odyssey. The problem was ours had issues. Honda ended up replacing the motor at 40k miles. We were without the vehicle for nearly 3 weeks. We ended up driving it to past 120k miles.

Keep the thread updated with the progress.
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btenny
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by btenny » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:59 pm

I suggest you go look and test drive some big Ford vans. They can be set up for 7-15 passengers with 3-5 rows of seats. So get one with three rows of seats and lots of luggage space. I bet the dealer would work a trade for your Expedition. They are not as expensive.

Good luck

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:39 am

btenny wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:59 pm
I suggest you go look and test drive some big Ford vans. They can be set up for 7-15 passengers with 3-5 rows of seats. So get one with three rows of seats and lots of luggage space. I bet the dealer would work a trade for your Expedition. They are not as expensive.

Good luck
Yeah, we specifically did not want one of those vans. No 4WD/AWD, don’t really NEED that much space all of the time, etc.

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:39 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:59 pm
I would let the process play out. You will most likely get a new transmission. It will continue to have the full drive train warranty.

Our Ford dealer is booked out 3+ weeks, so I understand the difficulties getting it in and fixed. No fun.

Other than gas, the loaner is like free miles. Drive it as much as you can. The problem with any single vehicle is the law of averages does not apply to a single vehicle. Even the most reliable of reliable vehicles overall have spot issues.

We have a Ford Fusion and a Ford Flex. The Power Transfer Unit on the Flex went out at 70k miles. Ford replaced under warranty. I read that this is a problem with the PTU on the Flex. I was out a car for 1 day, so nothing like what you are experiencing.

We had a super reliable 2007 Honda Odyssey. The problem was ours had issues. Honda ended up replacing the motor at 40k miles. We were without the vehicle for nearly 3 weeks. We ended up driving it to past 120k miles.

Keep the thread updated with the progress.
Totally fair points. My wife said last night that she hopes they get her car fixed and she gets it back working properly with no more issues. So I guess that’s I’m hoping for too. :happy

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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:40 am

Luckywon wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:50 pm
I was successful in getting the manufacturer to buy back a vehicle in California. I did not retain an attorney, though I spoke to several. I was leery of the retainer agreements they presented, which held me responsible for costs if they were unsuccessful, so I was glad I did not need to retain one. Once I mentioned to the manufacturer that I was speaking to an attorney, they were quick to offer to buy the vehicle back. In California, the law provides for attorney fees and costs in addition to the vehicle buy back, so the manufacturer does have an incentive to not see an attorney involved.

The manufacturer refunded all payments made, including taxes and registration, minus a mileage allowance. They also refunded a prorated amount of a tire service contract I had purchased. To me it was a far better outcome than a successful repair of the car.
Thanks for that data point, we’ll see how it goes.

LawEgr1
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by LawEgr1 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:34 am

I'll be watching this. Although we are in MN, we need to have 30 cumulative days of repairs of the same defect (regardless of # of times to be fixed) OR 4 unsuccessful attempts at the same repair. We are currently on 2 of 4 (3 if you count they didn't attempt a repair the first time) and we are guessing this issue is going to crop up again in the winter temperatures (which we are approaching!). Like you, the issue must occur within the first year or so of ownership.

At any rate, the MN lemon law is clearly written out on their website. It goes like this:

1) You must notify regional manager of manufacturer or dealership via certified mail, notifying you plan on using the state Lemon Law and the reason why, request a buyback / swap of vehicle.

2) Submit documentation

3) This notifies the mfg. company that you intend to employ the law, and that you give them one final attempt to resolve.

4) I know our manufacturer requires arbitration prior to filing lawsuit under lemon law, so I would expect a settlement then comes if the final attempt is unsuccessful.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but like luckywon poster stated, I'm not a believer that an attorney is required for the same reasons, but would employ the same tactics.

I suppose in your case I would ask them to just replace the tranny and be done with it. But, if you qualify for LL, you qualify, so the choice is yours.

In our case, for example, we've had the same recurring defect after multiple repairs and we suspect it still hasn't been fixed (it's temperature related, the car won't start in less than 10F)

Best - LE1

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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:38 am

thatme wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:39 am
Totally fair points. My wife said last night that she hopes they get her car fixed and she gets it back working properly with no more issues. So I guess that’s I’m hoping for too. :happy
That being the case, you may want to purchase a Ford factory extended warranty when you get it back. It would not be fun to get just outside the powertrain warranty and have the tranny fail again.
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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:14 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:38 am
thatme wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:39 am
Totally fair points. My wife said last night that she hopes they get her car fixed and she gets it back working properly with no more issues. So I guess that’s I’m hoping for too. :happy
That being the case, you may want to purchase a Ford factory extended warranty when you get it back. It would not be fun to get just outside the powertrain warranty and have the tranny fail again.
Absolutely. I intend to ask them to extend the PT warranty in any event no matter what, and be a squeaky wheel at Corporate. If that fails I will definitely consider buying the extended warranty myself, but hopefully they will at least provide that level of comp.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:21 am

thatme wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:14 am
Absolutely. I intend to ask them to extend the PT warranty in any event no matter what, and be a squeaky wheel at Corporate. If that fails I will definitely consider buying the extended warranty myself, but hopefully they will at least provide that level of comp.
Keep in mind that the powertrain warranty is 5 years, 50,000 miles. If they won't extend it, you can buy a warranty online from Flood Ford or Ziegler Ford for much less than other dealers. You have until 3 years, 36,000 miles to buy that extended warranty.

I believe Ford will offer this up easily.
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thatme
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by thatme » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:28 pm

Day 30, still no diagnosis of the issue or expected timeline for resolution.

Helo80
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Re: Ford Expedition - possible lemon claim and what to do?

Post by Helo80 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:52 pm

thatme wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:28 pm
Day 30, still no diagnosis of the issue or expected timeline for resolution.
PM sent

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