FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

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international001
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs

Post by international001 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:15 am

In the spirit of test, I just did 3 withdrawals one hour ago, each withdraw within 5 minutes . My results

Deutsche bank: 1.1189 $/E
Bankia: 1.1276 $/E
Bankinter: 1.1179 $/E

I used Capital One Debit card, that does not charge omissions.

So I stand corrected and Deutsche bank doesn't charge any fee. Bankia seems to have a worse rate.
You may see in the ATM a message like 'your institution will charge you a fee'. Ignore it. It probably just means that it 'may' (but Capital One, for instance, doesn't)

michaeljc70
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:14 am

I was just in Mexico City. I try to stick to banks that I recognize. My first withdrawal was from BBVA and it converted to almost 19 pesos to the dollar. The next time I used HSBC and I got less than 18 pesos to the dollar. It did alert me they charge a 5.5% up charge on top of the atm fee, but I had people waiting outside to go to dinner. I got the best rate using a Capital One no foreign conversion fee credit card and that came in at about 19.2.

When I was in Puerto Vallarta earlier this year I noticed that one particular set of ATMs had a line of Americans/Canadians almost everyday. I assumed it gave the best rate/lowest fees and started using that one (going early/late to avoid the lines).

It would be nice if their was a resource by city/country with exchange rates, fees, etc. for various banks. Sort of an app like Gas Buddy does for gas. I know a couple percent isn't going to kill anyone, but in the case of HSBC they hit me for about 9%.

international001
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by international001 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:59 pm

I think banks are not transparent about it. I have had banks charging fees w/o any warning on the ATM (most ATMs at least tell you if they are going to charge you a fee). Also, the rate changes from one ATM to the next and from one debit card to the next. I am told also that Visa conversion has a fee, but Mastercard doesn't seem to have any on all the cards I try. So I think best it's trial and error and check your debit card statements.

michaeljc70
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:04 pm

international001 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:59 pm
I think banks are not transparent about it. I have had banks charging fees w/o any warning on the ATM (most ATMs at least tell you if they are going to charge you a fee). Also, the rate changes from one ATM to the next and from one debit card to the next. I am told also that Visa conversion has a fee, but Mastercard doesn't seem to have any on all the cards I try. So I think best it's trial and error and check your debit card statements.
Trial and error might not pay if they are hitting you with a $5-$8 ATM fee for each withdrawal. I made 2 ATM withdrawals on my last 8 day trip. Making more small ones to find a good exchange rate probably wouldn't have been worth it given the flat fee. I try to stick to the no foreign transaction fee credit cards as much as possible so I only have to take out cash for things that cannot be charged.

international001
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by international001 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:11 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:04 pm
international001 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:59 pm
I think banks are not transparent about it. I have had banks charging fees w/o any warning on the ATM (most ATMs at least tell you if they are going to charge you a fee). Also, the rate changes from one ATM to the next and from one debit card to the next. I am told also that Visa conversion has a fee, but Mastercard doesn't seem to have any on all the cards I try. So I think best it's trial and error and check your debit card statements.
Trial and error might not pay if they are hitting you with a $5-$8 ATM fee for each withdrawal. I made 2 ATM withdrawals on my last 8 day trip. Making more small ones to find a good exchange rate probably wouldn't have been worth it given the flat fee. I try to stick to the no foreign transaction fee credit cards as much as possible so I only have to take out cash for things that cannot be charged.
Well.. that's what trial an error mean. If you cannot do many transactions, you'll have to take the loss. So it works only if you are a frequent traveler to that place :happy

chemocean
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Sneaky ATMs in Europe

Post by chemocean » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:37 am

[Merged here -- mod oldcomputerguy]

During a recent trip to Portugal, I encountered a choice at an ATM (Multibank) that I thought was deceptive. I was in a rush and needed to get cash for bus ride. After entering my personal data, I was asked if I wanted to accept the guaranteed rate of $1.22/1euro. Not having paid much attention to the exchange rate, I accepted. When I got back to our accommodations, I looked up the exchange rate and the official rate was $1.11/1 euro.
The next time I used the ATM from the same network, I chose not to accept the guaranteed rate. A new screen came up encouraging me to accept the guaranteed rate of $1.22/1euro. This screen contained language pointing out that if I didn't accept the guaranteed rate, I would not know what rate I would be getting. Again, I declined the guaranteed rate, and found that my account was charged $1.11/ 1 euro.
In essence, by accepting the guaranteed rate, I was accepting a 10% transaction fee.

bayview
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Re: Sneaky ATMs in Europe

Post by bayview » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:43 am

chemocean wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:37 am
During a recent trip to Portugal, I encountered a choice at an ATM (Multibank) that I thought was deceptive. I was in a rush and needed to get cash for bus ride. After entering my personal data, I was asked if I wanted to accept the guaranteed rate of $1.22/1euro. Not having paid much attention to the exchange rate, I accepted. When I got back to our accommodations, I looked up the exchange rate and the official rate was $1.11/1 euro.
The next time I used the ATM from the same network, I chose not to accept the guaranteed rate. A new screen came up encouraging me to accept the guaranteed rate of $1.22/1euro. This screen contained language pointing out that if I didn't accept the guaranteed rate, I would not know what rate I would be getting. Again, I declined the guaranteed rate, and found that my account was charged $1.11/ 1 euro.
In essence, by accepting the guaranteed rate, I was accepting a 10% transaction fee.
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whodidntante
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Re: Sneaky ATMs in Europe

Post by whodidntante » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:44 am

Yep. I've posted about the evils of dynamic currency conversion before, including at ATMs. Never accept it. It's not being offered to benefit you.

jminv
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Re: Sneaky ATMs in Europe

Post by jminv » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:48 am

Yes this is an emerging problem which I also posted in the old thread linked above.

In France, BNP Paribas ATMs have had this since early this year. When you withdraw cash, they make it appear that you have to accept the conversion to get money since the other option was 'cancel'. I think now they've changed it to 'decline' but it still is worded in a way that makes it seem that it has to be done.

The way these things are socially engineered is often nothing like the standard DCC card payments where you are asked whether you want to pay in the local currency or USD. They are designed to get the user to accept while making it seem it is the only option. They don't make it an Euro or USD decision.

international001
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by international001 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:30 pm

Did I mention that in the middle (Andorra) they don't try to trap you ? ;-)

I guess it's one of this cases where it's easy to rip off the tourist, since he doesn't have a vote

UpperNwGuy
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:56 pm

I leave for Spain in two days and plan to use my Charles Schwab debit card to pull Euros from Deutsche Bank ATMs. This provides me with double protection in that Deutsche Bank doesn't charge a fee, and even if they did, Charles Schwab would reimburse me.

international001
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by international001 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:33 pm

Do they really reimburse you international fees? I haven't seen this with any US debit card

scophreak
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by scophreak » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:43 pm

international001 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:33 pm
Do they really reimburse you international fees? I haven't seen this with any US debit card
Yes, Schwab reimburses both domestic and international ATM fees.

international001
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by international001 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:11 pm

That's good to know. I'll check it out
Perhaps you can try to use it in a non-fee friendly bank (LaCaixa, BBVA,...) and let us know how it goes. Just in the interest of science ;-)

scophreak
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Re: FYI, Spanish bank ATMs [Dynamic Currency Conversion]

Post by scophreak » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:25 pm

international001 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:11 pm
That's good to know. I'll check it out
Perhaps you can try to use it in a non-fee friendly bank (LaCaixa, BBVA,...) and let us know how it goes. Just in the interest of science ;-)
I did use my card at an ATM at baggage claim in the Madrid airport (not sure of the bank) and received a fee reimbursement from Schwab. From their website:

1. Unlimited ATM fee rebates apply to cash withdrawals using the Schwab Bank Visa® Platinum Debit Card wherever it is accepted. ATM fee rebates do not apply to any fees other than fees assessed for using an ATM to withdraw cash from your Schwab Bank account. Schwab Bank makes its best effort to identify those ATM fees eligible for rebate, based on information it receives from Visa and ATM operators. In the event that you have not received a rebate for a fee that you believe is eligible, please call a Schwab Bank Client Service Specialist for assistance at 888‐403‐9000 (or for clients of independent investment advisors, a Schwab Alliance Service team member at 800-515-2157). Schwab Bank reserves the right to modify or discontinue the ATM fee rebate at any time.

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