Fidelity as a one stop shop

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bostondan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:31 pm

boston10 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:29 pm
bostondan wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:27 pm
I encountered another issue, this time with bill pay. It does not allow me to select total balance, instead only paying the amount due. This results in the automatic payments being for $25 and leaving a balance on the credit card. BofA always allowed me to pay the full balance with ebills. I called Fidelity and they said this was correct functionality and nothing could be done.

The solution I found was to initiate the autopay on the credit card side, rather than through Fidelity bill pay. Not a huge hassle, but another little glitch in using Fidelity for banking.
I believe you can autopay in full with some payees but not others. It depends on what data they pass through to Fido's billpay service.
That is consistent with what I was told by Fidelity and what is available in the documentation. However, at BofA I never encountered a credit card that could not be paid in full by automatic bill pay.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

Lyrrad
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Lyrrad » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:18 pm

Leif wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:57 pm
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. But recently I've seen Fidelity clear check deposits quickly. It use to take 4-5 business days for cash available for withdrawal. Now it seems to take 1-2 days. Very pleased to see that.
I've noticed that my EFT pull requests initiated from the Fidelity side can to take different amounts of time to clear, even when pulling from the same account. I've had some clear in one business day, but others take about week. My guess is they have an automated system that determines the risk level of a particular transaction and sets the clear time, or there's different about some of my transactions.
bostondan wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:27 pm
I encountered another issue, this time with bill pay.
[...]
The solution I found was to initiate the autopay on the credit card side, rather than through Fidelity bill pay. Not a huge hassle, but another little glitch in using Fidelity for banking.
I almost always pull from the credit card side. I assume I get an extra day or two of interest on my money, and if something goes wrong, the credit card company is more likely to understand what happened.

Minty
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Minty » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:40 pm

bostondan wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:07 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:49 pm
Minty wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am
Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Not that I think that this is common, but it's an example of why I have a CMA for ATM withdrawals only, with no overdraft from any other account set up. I think I have less than $20 in that account now, and have never even done an ATM withdrawal from it yet. Everything else is done with a brokerage account dedicated to cash management (separate from my main investing brokerage account), and this has been working flawlessly. I am private client, so could do free ATM withdrawals from the brokerage, but I didn't even request an ATM/debit card for this brokerage account, since I don't want it exposed to fraudulent ATM or debit transactions.

Kevin
Got it. I created a new brokerage account, so it is the same as just using a separate CMA. This brokerage account is only used for being a “checking” account.
Update: Fidelity has given me my money back. I remain a little nervous because, although I had activated my card, I had never used it, so it was not possible for anyone to have skimmed or observed my pin number. I wish Fidelity allowed permanent disabling of the debit feature, which I never use because of a prior cybercrime 20 years ago, and two factor authentication or on-line disabling of the ATM feature. On the other hand, Fidelity did stop a couple of other charges, so they seem to be attentive.
Core Four with nominal bonds and TIPS.

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Leif
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Leif » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:43 pm

Lyrrad wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:18 pm
I almost always pull from the credit card side. I assume I get an extra day or two of interest on my money, and if something goes wrong, the credit card company is more likely to understand what happened.
Recently I deposited a cashier's check, and two personal checks from individuals I never deposited a check from before. All 3 had cash available for withdrawal (not just Settled cash), in a single day.

Cash
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Cash » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:09 am

Data point: I initiated an EFT pull from an outside bank at 9:15pm last night and the money is currently sitting in my account available to use (as of at least 5:45am EDT). Amazing.
Last edited by Cash on Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cash
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Cash » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am

As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by CyclingDuo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:53 am

Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
:sharebeer
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boston10
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:36 am

Minty wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:40 pm
bostondan wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:07 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:49 pm
Minty wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am
Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Not that I think that this is common, but it's an example of why I have a CMA for ATM withdrawals only, with no overdraft from any other account set up. I think I have less than $20 in that account now, and have never even done an ATM withdrawal from it yet. Everything else is done with a brokerage account dedicated to cash management (separate from my main investing brokerage account), and this has been working flawlessly. I am private client, so could do free ATM withdrawals from the brokerage, but I didn't even request an ATM/debit card for this brokerage account, since I don't want it exposed to fraudulent ATM or debit transactions.

Kevin
Got it. I created a new brokerage account, so it is the same as just using a separate CMA. This brokerage account is only used for being a “checking” account.
Update: Fidelity has given me my money back. I remain a little nervous because, although I had activated my card, I had never used it, so it was not possible for anyone to have skimmed or observed my pin number. I wish Fidelity allowed permanent disabling of the debit feature, which I never use because of a prior cybercrime 20 years ago, and two factor authentication or on-line disabling of the ATM feature. On the other hand, Fidelity did stop a couple of other charges, so they seem to be attentive.
My thought is, who cares if someone steals your CMA debit card number? Fidelity is required by law to reimburse for fraud, and they are insured, so there is zero long-term financial risk to you. The only risk to you is a short-term liquidity risk, which you mitigate by keeping your CMA separate from your brokerage, not linked for overdraft, and with a minimal balance.

BUBear29
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BUBear29 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:33 am

FrugalProfessor wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:48 pm
Kevin M wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:49 pm
Minty wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am
Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Not that I think that this is common, but it's an example of why I have a CMA for ATM withdrawals only, with no overdraft from any other account set up. I think I have less than $20 in that account now, and have never even done an ATM withdrawal from it yet. Everything else is done with a brokerage account dedicated to cash management (separate from my main investing brokerage account), and this has been working flawlessly. I am private client, so could do free ATM withdrawals from the brokerage, but I didn't even request an ATM/debit card for this brokerage account, since I don't want it exposed to fraudulent ATM or debit transactions.

Kevin
I like your system (ATM-only CMA with no overdraft protection from brokerage). It's safer than my system (ATM-only CMA w/ OD protection) because it places a ceiling on the maximum loss from fraud (no greater than the balance of the CMA account) but is more inconvenient because it forces me to plan ahead when using the ATM.

I use an ATM very sparingly (I seldom carry my card with me), so perhaps I'll park $20-$100 of SPRXX in the CMA in perpetuity on the off chance that I need to visit an ATM. If I need more cash, I'd know to simply execute the brokerage->CMA transfer before visiting the ATM.

Given that the brokerage account is my main checking account, perhaps I'll even set up my overdraft in opposite direction to how I have it set up currently. After changing directions, CMA funds would now cover shortfalls in the brokerage account in the event of a brokerage shortfall.

I like it.

Edit - On second thought it looks like I can't set up the overdraft protection in the other direction (CMA funds brokerage). Oh well. I'll turn of OD protection and simply park a few dollars in the CMA in the event of the rare ATM withdrawal.
You should do what I do imo. Set a peg balance in the CMA (mine is $750 - slightly above the $500 atm limit). Then when balance in CMA drops below $750, it will sweep funds overnight from Brokerage and you will receive a notification. Kind of a hybrid between OD protection and none with a max loss of $750 (could be slightly more if you don’t move excess funds from sweep back as I thinj there is a minimum sweep amount) as you can shut off overnight sweep if fraudulent activity. I use CMA for atm and checks
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

BUBear29
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BUBear29 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am

Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

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bostondan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am

BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

BUBear29
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BUBear29 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am

bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
i prefer Vanguard funds. I hold Vangurd etf’s in my taxable so this makes everything fit in three funds.

not sure there are any inconveniences i can think of
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

pyld76
Posts: 272
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by pyld76 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:55 am

BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Why?

You have Fido options which are cheaper for those given asset class today. And in an IRA, there’s no friction to shift if Fido underperforms.

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bostondan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:57 am

BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am
bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
i prefer Vanguard funds. I hold Vangurd etf’s in my taxable so this makes everything fit in three funds.

not sure there are any inconveniences i can think of
Mutual funds allow easier purchase of exact dollar amounts and can be easily set for automatic investments due to that. ETFs cannot generally be purchased as fractional shares except for reinvestments.

In a Roth IRA I want to deposit $6000 and purchase exactly that amount. I don’t like having money leftover in cash.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

BUBear29
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BUBear29 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:00 pm

bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:57 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am
bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
i prefer Vanguard funds. I hold Vangurd etf’s in my taxable so this makes everything fit in three funds.

not sure there are any inconveniences i can think of
Mutual funds allow easier purchase of exact dollar amounts and can be easily set for automatic investments due to that. ETFs cannot generally be purchased as fractional shares except for reinvestments.

In a Roth IRA I want to deposit $6000 and purchase exactly that amount. I don’t like having money leftover in cash.
ah i see. yeah I don’t auto invest. i manually purchase funds twice a year. I don’t mind a few dollars in my Spaxx. I can see why some might not though
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

Spirit Rider
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Spirit Rider » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:01 pm

BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am
bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
i prefer Vanguard funds. I hold Vangurd etf’s in my taxable so this makes everything fit in three funds.

not sure there are any inconveniences i can think of
The benefits the others have stated and...

Not to mention, you now have placed impediments to tax loss harvesting in taxable by having the same funds in IRAs.

Emotion and loyalty get in the way of sound investment planning.

BUBear29
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BUBear29 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:05 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:01 pm
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am
bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
i prefer Vanguard funds. I hold Vangurd etf’s in my taxable so this makes everything fit in three funds.

not sure there are any inconveniences i can think of
The benefits the others have stated and...

Not to mention, you now have placed impediments to tax loss harvesting in taxable by having the same funds in IRAs.

Emotion and loyalty get in the way of sound investment planning.
decent point. I’ve not historically TLH but I might in a few years
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

boston10
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:00 pm

BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am
bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
i prefer Vanguard funds. I hold Vangurd etf’s in my taxable so this makes everything fit in three funds.

not sure there are any inconveniences i can think of
If you have an emotional attachment to Vanguard then you should just transfer your IRAs to a Vanguard brokerage account and hold Vanguard's mutual funds there. It doesn't make sense to hold more expensive Vanguard ETFs in a Fidelity IRA.

Fidelity's index mutual funds have zero expense ratios. The only reason to hold Vanguard funds over Fidelity is if you have a taxable account, because of Vanguard's patented capital gains tax avoidance techniques. Or if, like me, you have Vanguard IRAs and don't think the hassle of transferring them to Fido is worth it the benefits of an ER drop.

sarabayo
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by sarabayo » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:16 pm

bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:57 am
Mutual funds allow easier purchase of exact dollar amounts and can be easily set for automatic investments due to that. ETFs cannot generally be purchased as fractional shares except for reinvestments.

In a Roth IRA I want to deposit $6000 and purchase exactly that amount. I don’t like having money leftover in cash.
M1 Finance lets you purchase fractional shares of ETFs, in return for forcing you to batch orders once a day rather than being able to trade throughout the day. I wonder if any of the other brokerages, including Fidelity, might one day introduce such a feature as well. Does anyone know of any other brokerages that do this?

BUBear29
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BUBear29 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:58 pm

boston10 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:00 pm
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am
bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am
BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 am
Cash wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:10 am
As mentioned in the leaving Fidelity thread, Fidelity has now joined the no-commission crowd:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
Looks like I’m changing all my Fidelity Mutual Funds in my RIRAs to VTI, VXUS and BND!! Great news
Is there any reason to do this in a Roth? Wouldn’t the tax advantages of an ETF be useless in a Roth, while the inconvenience of an ETF would be considerable?
i prefer Vanguard funds. I hold Vangurd etf’s in my taxable so this makes everything fit in three funds.

not sure there are any inconveniences i can think of
If you have an emotional attachment to Vanguard then you should just transfer your IRAs to a Vanguard brokerage account and hold Vanguard's mutual funds there. It doesn't make sense to hold more expensive Vanguard ETFs in a Fidelity IRA.

Fidelity's index mutual funds have zero expense ratios. The only reason to hold Vanguard funds over Fidelity is if you have a taxable account, because of Vanguard's patented capital gains tax avoidance techniques. Or if, like me, you have Vanguard IRAs and don't think the hassle of transferring them to Fido is worth it the benefits of an ER drop.
makes sense. I consolidated all banking and investing to Fido but I don’t currently use the zero expense funds. I use the recommended 3 fund portfolio with regular fidelity funds. Use to have my investments at Vanguard.
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

sarabayo
Posts: 330
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by sarabayo » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:50 pm

BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:58 pm
boston10 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:00 pm
Fidelity's index mutual funds have zero expense ratios. The only reason to hold Vanguard funds over Fidelity is if you have a taxable account, because of Vanguard's patented capital gains tax avoidance techniques. Or if, like me, you have Vanguard IRAs and don't think the hassle of transferring them to Fido is worth it the benefits of an ER drop.
makes sense. I consolidated all banking and investing to Fido but I don’t currently use the zero expense funds. I use the recommended 3 fund portfolio with regular fidelity funds. Use to have my investments at Vanguard.
Note that the Fidelity Zero index funds follow different indexes from what Vanguard's index funds follow. In particular, they follow a proprietary in-house index developed by Fidelity (which is one reason why they've been able to decrease the ER to zero, since they don't have to pay license fees to a third party index provider). So if that difference matters to you, that might be a reason to use Vanguard funds over Fidelity Zero funds, or vice versa. Also, Fidelity has traditional non-zero-ER funds that follow third-party independent indexes like Vanguard's funds (though still not exactly the same indexes), if you want to use those.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:45 pm

Just initiated a transfer of my taxable brokerage (wow that was easy) from Vanguard to Fidelity. Now that I can trade ETFs commission free, Fidelity's amazing customer service (all over a simple online chat) was enough to tip the scales.

I now have two brokerage accounts at Fidelity; one for investments and one tied to my CMA (which is always at $0 balance) acting as my joint checking/savings account.

I also have a Roth IRA at M1 but now have no accounts at Vanguard.

Pretty jazzed!

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bostondan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:17 pm

As much as I am glad that trades are now free, I had just recently transferred enough money to qualify for the 500 free trade bonus. I guess I’m not “losing” anything because I still get free trades, but I do feel like I no longer am getting any particular bonus for transferring money to Fidelity.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:58 am

bostondan wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:17 pm
As much as I am glad that trades are now free, I had just recently transferred enough money to qualify for the 500 free trade bonus. I guess I’m not “losing” anything because I still get free trades, but I do feel like I no longer am getting any particular bonus for transferring money to Fidelity.
Called it :happy
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=292254&p=4786859#p4786859

Though you actually still get a bonus if you trade options, apparently:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=292254&p=4786859#p4786973

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walletless
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by walletless » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:21 am

I extensively used my debit card for CMA during a recent trip to Japan. The 7/11s there have international ATMs that charge 220 yen as fees. I can confirm that Fidelity reimbursed that fee every single time. I also got decent foreign exchange rates there. I just had to inform Fidelity ahead of time about my trip in order to use the ATM in Japan; that required a phone call to Fidelity (no way to specify that online, with Banks like Chase I could just do that online). Besides that minor inconvenience, I'm glad I had the CMA account and debit card during the trip!

pyld76
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by pyld76 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:26 pm

boston10 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:00 pm
Or if, like me, you have Vanguard IRAs and don't think the hassle of transferring them to Fido is worth it the benefits of an ER drop.
So, I did this relatively recently. The “hassle” amounted to a single day out of the market, largely because I did not enable limited margin in the IRA and thus had to wait a day from selling the VG fund that had transferred in kind and buying into the fidelity counterparts. FWIW.

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bostondan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:29 pm

walletless wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:21 am
I extensively used my debit card for CMA during a recent trip to Japan. The 7/11s there have international ATMs that charge 220 yen as fees. I can confirm that Fidelity reimbursed that fee every single time. I also got decent foreign exchange rates there. I just had to inform Fidelity ahead of time about my trip in order to use the ATM in Japan; that required a phone call to Fidelity (no way to specify that online, with Banks like Chase I could just do that online). Besides that minor inconvenience, I'm glad I had the CMA account and debit card during the trip!
How does it compare to Schwab? I keep a Schwab account purely for the international ATM feature. It charges absolutely no fees and the exchange rate always perfectly matched what google said was the current rate.

If the Fidelity international ATM features are comparable then I’ll provably close the Schwab account.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

arf30
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by arf30 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:36 pm

Fidelity and Schwab are basically the two best ATM cards for international travel, I would keep both.

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walletless
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by walletless » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:40 pm

bostondan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:29 pm
walletless wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:21 am
I extensively used my debit card for CMA during a recent trip to Japan. The 7/11s there have international ATMs that charge 220 yen as fees. I can confirm that Fidelity reimbursed that fee every single time. I also got decent foreign exchange rates there. I just had to inform Fidelity ahead of time about my trip in order to use the ATM in Japan; that required a phone call to Fidelity (no way to specify that online, with Banks like Chase I could just do that online). Besides that minor inconvenience, I'm glad I had the CMA account and debit card during the trip!
How does it compare to Schwab? I keep a Schwab account purely for the international ATM feature. It charges absolutely no fees and the exchange rate always perfectly matched what google said was the current rate.

If the Fidelity international ATM features are comparable then I’ll provably close the Schwab account.
I have no experience with Schwab, but I'm very happy with my Fidelity CMA + Brokerage combo.

Lyrrad
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Lyrrad » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:00 pm

bostondan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:29 pm
How does it compare to Schwab? I keep a Schwab account purely for the international ATM feature. It charges absolutely no fees and the exchange rate always perfectly matched what google said was the current rate.

If the Fidelity international ATM features are comparable then I’ll provably close the Schwab account.
They’re similar. They should have the same Visa exchange rate.
- Fidelity allows one to invest in their Money market funds which pay a higher rate than either Fidelity’s or Schwab’s cash rate. Funds in Fidelity run MM funds are available immediately for ATM withdrawal.
- Fidelity reimburses ATM fees in about a business day or two. I believe Schwab does it at the end of the statement.
- I believe that Schwab uses its own bank while Fidelity uses a third party bank for ATM cards
- Schwab appears to have a higher ATM limit (~$1000). I can’t seem to raise the Fidelity limit (~$500). Fidelity allows for multiple Cash Management accounts.
- Fidelity appears to charge a 1% forex fee for foreign debit card purchases.

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jpsfranks
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by jpsfranks » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:11 pm

The Fidelity card has a 1% foreign transaction fee on purchases, the Schwab card has none (i.e. using it as a debit card rather than at an ATM to make a withdrawal, neither card has fee on ATM withdrawals). I never use debit cards for purchases so this does not matter to me.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:40 pm

Lyrrad wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:00 pm
bostondan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:29 pm
How does it compare to Schwab? I keep a Schwab account purely for the international ATM feature. It charges absolutely no fees and the exchange rate always perfectly matched what google said was the current rate.

If the Fidelity international ATM features are comparable then I’ll provably close the Schwab account.
They’re similar. They should have the same Visa exchange rate.
- Fidelity allows one to invest in their Money market funds which pay a higher rate than either Fidelity’s or Schwab’s cash rate. Funds in Fidelity run MM funds are available immediately for ATM withdrawal.
- Fidelity reimburses ATM fees in about a business day or two. I believe Schwab does it at the end of the statement.
- I believe that Schwab uses its own bank while Fidelity uses a third party bank for ATM cards
- Schwab appears to have a higher ATM limit (~$1000). I can’t seem to raise the Fidelity limit (~$500). Fidelity allows for multiple Cash Management accounts.
- Fidelity appears to charge a 1% forex fee for foreign debit card purchases.
The $500 daily limit is probably the only drawback I have found with my card. Interesting to know you can have multiple CMA's though; can they be tied to the same brokerage? I may make a 2nd one for DW instead of using a single joint one.

I just moved my taxable to Fidelity, opened Roths for DW and I, got a 2% Visa card, and have been using the CMA/brokerage for a few months now. I am extremely pleased with Fidelity; customer service via chat has been top notch.

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walletless
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by walletless » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:08 pm

Lyrrad wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:00 pm
- I believe that Schwab uses its own bank while Fidelity uses a third party bank for ATM cards
I think Fidelity ATM cards are issued by PNC Bank, not that it matters to me

Lyrrad
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Lyrrad » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:17 am

MotoTrojan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:40 pm
The $500 daily limit is probably the only drawback I have found with my card. Interesting to know you can have multiple CMA's though; can they be tied to the same brokerage? I may make a 2nd one for DW instead of using a single joint one.
I don’t think more than one CM account can be connected to a brokerage account for overdraft since I remember trying to do so and getting an error. You could keep one day of ATM funds in each CM account in a MM fund or decide to transfer funds in when one believes they may need more than $500 cash in a day.

MisterBill
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MisterBill » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:19 pm

walletless wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:08 pm
Lyrrad wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:00 pm
- I believe that Schwab uses its own bank while Fidelity uses a third party bank for ATM cards
I think Fidelity ATM cards are issued by PNC Bank, not that it matters to me
"The Fidelity® Debit Card is issued by PNC Bank, N.A., and the debit card program is administered by BNY Mellon Investment Servicing Trust Company."

bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:56 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:40 pm
I just moved my taxable to Fidelity, opened Roths for DW and I, got a 2% Visa card, and have been using the CMA/brokerage for a few months now. I am extremely pleased with Fidelity; customer service via chat has been top notch.
I totally agree. I have CMA and some of my taxable investments at Fidelity. Really happy with it. Their index funds are great. DW and I also use the 2% cash back card for almost all bill paying, spending, etc. My only disappointment is with their money market funds. I know something has to finance the cash management services but their expense ratios are high and their yields are low. I keep just what I need for spending in the CMA, and the rest of my cash reserves I keep in Vanguard Federal MMF. But the debit card is very convenient and I just replenish the CMA as needed.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:03 pm

bck63 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:56 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:40 pm
I just moved my taxable to Fidelity, opened Roths for DW and I, got a 2% Visa card, and have been using the CMA/brokerage for a few months now. I am extremely pleased with Fidelity; customer service via chat has been top notch.
I totally agree. I have CMA and some of my taxable investments at Fidelity. Really happy with it. Their index funds are great. DW and I also use the 2% cash back card for almost all bill paying, spending, etc. My only disappointment is with their money market funds. I know something has to finance the cash management services but their expense ratios are high and their yields are low. I keep just what I need for spending in the CMA, and the rest of my cash reserves I keep in Vanguard Federal MMF. But the debit card is very convenient and I just replenish the CMA as needed.
You could also keep your cash reserves in auto-rolled treasury bills and just sell them as needed to replenish the CMA.

bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:14 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:03 pm
bck63 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:56 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:40 pm
I just moved my taxable to Fidelity, opened Roths for DW and I, got a 2% Visa card, and have been using the CMA/brokerage for a few months now. I am extremely pleased with Fidelity; customer service via chat has been top notch.
I totally agree. I have CMA and some of my taxable investments at Fidelity. Really happy with it. Their index funds are great. DW and I also use the 2% cash back card for almost all bill paying, spending, etc. My only disappointment is with their money market funds. I know something has to finance the cash management services but their expense ratios are high and their yields are low. I keep just what I need for spending in the CMA, and the rest of my cash reserves I keep in Vanguard Federal MMF. But the debit card is very convenient and I just replenish the CMA as needed.
You could also keep your cash reserves in auto-rolled treasury bills and just sell them as needed to replenish the CMA.
True. But the current yield for VMFXX beats the yields for T-bills (unless I'm misreading them). Current yield is 1.85%.

engineerbme
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by engineerbme » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:34 pm

just came back from a 10 day trip to Italy, had zero issues withdrawing $ with my Fidelity CMA, no transaction fees at all and very good same day conversion rates, very pleasant experience, very glad I joined Fidelity

bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:55 pm

engineerbme wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:34 pm
just came back from a 10 day trip to Italy, had zero issues withdrawing $ with my Fidelity CMA, no transaction fees at all and very good same day conversion rates, very pleasant experience, very glad I joined Fidelity
That is great to hear. We are going to England in June and hope we have the same experience.

Hope you had a great trip!

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corn18
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by corn18 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:58 pm

bck63 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:55 pm
engineerbme wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:34 pm
just came back from a 10 day trip to Italy, had zero issues withdrawing $ with my Fidelity CMA, no transaction fees at all and very good same day conversion rates, very pleasant experience, very glad I joined Fidelity
That is great to hear. We are going to England in June and hope we have the same experience.

Hope you had a great trip!
Same here on our Africa trip. Fido debit card worked great at atms. Didn’t use their cc as they charge a transaction fee for international.
Don't do something, just stand there!

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Kevin M
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Kevin M » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:12 pm

bck63 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:14 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:03 pm
bck63 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:56 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:40 pm
I just moved my taxable to Fidelity, opened Roths for DW and I, got a 2% Visa card, and have been using the CMA/brokerage for a few months now. I am extremely pleased with Fidelity; customer service via chat has been top notch.
I totally agree. I have CMA and some of my taxable investments at Fidelity. Really happy with it. Their index funds are great. DW and I also use the 2% cash back card for almost all bill paying, spending, etc. My only disappointment is with their money market funds. I know something has to finance the cash management services but their expense ratios are high and their yields are low. I keep just what I need for spending in the CMA, and the rest of my cash reserves I keep in Vanguard Federal MMF. But the debit card is very convenient and I just replenish the CMA as needed.
You could also keep your cash reserves in auto-rolled treasury bills and just sell them as needed to replenish the CMA.
True. But the current yield for VMFXX beats the yields for T-bills (unless I'm misreading them). Current yield is 1.85%.
Correct, but you need to consider that VMFXX had about 78% of income from USGO (exempt from state tax) in 2018, while Treasuries or Vanguard Treasury MM fund are 100% exempt from state tax. I assume 78% of Fed MM in USGO for taxable-equivalent yield (TEY) calculations.

At my marginal tax rates of 27% Fed and 8% State, Fed MM at 1.87% compound yield (I use compound yield to compare to bank APY), my compound TEY is 2.05%. For Treasury MM at 1.87% my compound TEY is 2.10%.

Current Treasury Bill yields are:

Code: Select all

1m   2m   3m   6m   1y
1.75 1.73 1.67 1.65 1.59
My TEY on 1m Tbill at 1.75% is 1.97%, and on 6m at 1.65% it's 1.85%, so Fed MM is better for me at this point, but of course Treasury MM is even better.

Treasury MM holds Tbills mostly in the 1m to 3m maturity range. The reason Treasury MM yield is higher than current 1m to 3m Treasury yields, even after subtracting the 0.09% ER is that the Treasuries are still accruing interest at the yield when purchased, so some of the Treasuries bought at original maturity of three months are earning the yield from almost three months ago.

Still, now and then even that can't explain all of the excess yield of Treasury MM. After doing the appropriate averaging of Tbills over the last 3m, 2m and 1m, taking the 7-day trailing average of that, and subtracting the ER, I get 1.79% as the expected SEC yield, but it's actually 1.85%.

Here is a chart showing some history of average Treasury yields minus ER, 7-day average of that minus ER, and actual SEC yield:

Image

In a Fidelity IRA, I'd compare rolling Tbills to the best money market fund you can get in the IRA. In one of my IRAs, I have FZDXX ($10K min in an IRA), with SEC yield of 1.80%, so better at this point than Tbills. In another Fidelity IRA I have SPRXX at SEC yield of 1.68%, so Tbills might be worth considering, but the amount is so small I think I'll just wait until one of my CDs in this account matures in Jan 2020, then open FZDXX.

In my Fidelity brokerage that I'm using to pay bills (I only use CMA for ATM), I am using SPAXX as my core fund, which at an SEC yield of 1.55% is TEY for me of 1.66%. In that account I bought $10K face of 6-month Treasuries on 5/28 at a yield of 2.387% (TEY = 2.68%) to provide some margin for overdraft protection. When the bills mature on 11/29/2019, I'll consider rolling them.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)

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Leif
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Leif » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:20 pm

corn18 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:58 pm
Same here on our Africa trip. Fido debit card worked great at atms. Didn’t use their cc as they charge a transaction fee for international.
The international transaction fee is 1%, their reward is 2%, for purchases. You net 1%. Using cash from an ATM from the debit card you net 0%. I only use local cash for small carry around money.

bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:29 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:12 pm
In my Fidelity brokerage that I'm using to pay bills (I only use CMA for ATM), I am using SPAXX as my core fund, which at an SEC yield of 1.55% is TEY for me of 1.66%. In that account I bought $10K face of 6-month Treasuries on 5/28 at a yield of 2.387% (TEY = 2.68%) to provide some margin for overdraft protection. When the bills mature on 11/29/2019, I'll consider rolling them.

Kevin
Kevin thanks for this whole post and I am going to read it in depth. But I wanted to mention, consider using FDRXX in your CMA (can't use it as core but can buy it separately). As near as I can tell it is absolutely identical to SPAXX, but the ER is 0.38%, as opposed to 0.42%. For the life of me I don't know why. My only guess is that I read somewhere that FDRXX is the sweep account for Fidelity IRAs. I don't know if that is accurate but maybe that has something to do with it.

The yield difference is only 6 bp (FDRXX is 1.61%) but I use FDRXX on principle because it's cheaper.

Horsefly
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Horsefly » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:36 pm

Just thought I would post what happened to me today.

At about 8:30am this morning (MST) I put in a request at Fidelity to transfer $10K to my checking account at Ally. Based on previous experience, I figured I would see the money in my Ally account Monday, or Tuesday morning at the latest. I logged into my Ally account at 2:15pm, and BAM! It's already there, and available. This was just a normal EFT, not any expedited wire transfer.

That's the fastest I think I've seen. Good on both Fidelity and Ally for doing it so quickly!

Interesting side note: According to Fidelity, the transfer is still being processed. :shock:

MotoTrojan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:37 pm

Leif wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:20 pm
corn18 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:58 pm
Same here on our Africa trip. Fido debit card worked great at atms. Didn’t use their cc as they charge a transaction fee for international.
The international transaction fee is 1%, their reward is 2%, for purchases. You net 1%. Using cash from an ATM from the debit card you net 0%. I only use local cash for small carry around money.
Other cards are 0% and even have higher rewards...

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Leif
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Leif » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:12 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:37 pm

Other cards are 0% and even have higher rewards...
I'm sure that is true. But my point above was that the Fidelity CC should not be avoided due to the 1% fee if those are the cards (Fidelity CC and debit) that you have.

MotoTrojan
Posts: 6915
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:29 pm

Leif wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:12 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:37 pm

Other cards are 0% and even have higher rewards...
I'm sure that is true. But my point above was that the Fidelity CC should not be avoided due to the 1% fee if those are the cards (Fidelity CC and debit) that you have.
Ah I see, indeed good point.

boston10
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:40 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:12 pm
At my marginal tax rates of 27% Fed and 8% State, Fed MM at 1.87% compound yield (I use compound yield to compare to bank APY), my compound TEY is 2.05%. For Treasury MM at 1.87% my compound TEY is 2.10%.

[...]

My TEY on 1m Tbill at 1.75% is 1.97%, and on 6m at 1.65% it's 1.85%, so Fed MM is better for me at this point, but of course Treasury MM is even better.

[...]

In my Fidelity brokerage that I'm using to pay bills (I only use CMA for ATM), I am using SPAXX as my core fund, which at an SEC yield of 1.55% is TEY for me of 1.66%. In that account I bought $10K face of 6-month Treasuries on 5/28 at a yield of 2.387% (TEY = 2.68%) to provide some margin for overdraft protection. When the bills mature on 11/29/2019, I'll consider rolling them.

Kevin
These numbers seem wrong. At an 8% marginal state tax rate, TEY on a 1m Tbill at 1.75% is 1.90%. For a 6-month Tbill at 1.65% it's 1.79%. For SPAXX at 1.55%, it should be about 1.62% given a 56% content of government securities. The other TEY numbers are similarly high.

Am I missing something, or calculating TEY incorrectly?

hap_ca
Posts: 46
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by hap_ca » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:50 pm

Kevin M wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:12 pm
bck63 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:14 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:03 pm
bck63 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:56 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:40 pm
I just moved my taxable to Fidelity, opened Roths for DW and I, got a 2% Visa card, and have been using the CMA/brokerage for a few months now. I am extremely pleased with Fidelity; customer service via chat has been top notch.
I totally agree. I have CMA and some of my taxable investments at Fidelity. Really happy with it. Their index funds are great. DW and I also use the 2% cash back card for almost all bill paying, spending, etc. My only disappointment is with their money market funds. I know something has to finance the cash management services but their expense ratios are high and their yields are low. I keep just what I need for spending in the CMA, and the rest of my cash reserves I keep in Vanguard Federal MMF. But the debit card is very convenient and I just replenish the CMA as needed.
You could also keep your cash reserves in auto-rolled treasury bills and just sell them as needed to replenish the CMA.
True. But the current yield for VMFXX beats the yields for T-bills (unless I'm misreading them). Current yield is 1.85%.
Correct, but you need to consider that VMFXX had about 78% of income from USGO (exempt from state tax) in 2018, while Treasuries or Vanguard Treasury MM fund are 100% exempt from state tax. I assume 78% of Fed MM in USGO for taxable-equivalent yield (TEY) calculations.

At my marginal tax rates of 27% Fed and 8% State, Fed MM at 1.87% compound yield (I use compound yield to compare to bank APY), my compound TEY is 2.05%. For Treasury MM at 1.87% my compound TEY is 2.10%.

Current Treasury Bill yields are:

Code: Select all

1m   2m   3m   6m   1y
1.75 1.73 1.67 1.65 1.59
My TEY on 1m Tbill at 1.75% is 1.97%, and on 6m at 1.65% it's 1.85%, so Fed MM is better for me at this point, but of course Treasury MM is even better.

Treasury MM holds Tbills mostly in the 1m to 3m maturity range. The reason Treasury MM yield is higher than current 1m to 3m Treasury yields, even after subtracting the 0.09% ER is that the Treasuries are still accruing interest at the yield when purchased, so some of the Treasuries bought at original maturity of three months are earning the yield from almost three months ago.

Still, now and then even that can't explain all of the excess yield of Treasury MM. After doing the appropriate averaging of Tbills over the last 3m, 2m and 1m, taking the 7-day trailing average of that, and subtracting the ER, I get 1.79% as the expected SEC yield, but it's actually 1.85%.

Here is a chart showing some history of average Treasury yields minus ER, 7-day average of that minus ER, and actual SEC yield:

Image

In a Fidelity IRA, I'd compare rolling Tbills to the best money market fund you can get in the IRA. In one of my IRAs, I have FZDXX ($10K min in an IRA), with SEC yield of 1.80%, so better at this point than Tbills. In another Fidelity IRA I have SPRXX at SEC yield of 1.68%, so Tbills might be worth considering, but the amount is so small I think I'll just wait until one of my CDs in this account matures in Jan 2020, then open FZDXX.

In my Fidelity brokerage that I'm using to pay bills (I only use CMA for ATM), I am using SPAXX as my core fund, which at an SEC yield of 1.55% is TEY for me of 1.66%. In that account I bought $10K face of 6-month Treasuries on 5/28 at a yield of 2.387% (TEY = 2.68%) to provide some margin for overdraft protection. When the bills mature on 11/29/2019, I'll consider rolling them.

Kevin
Is SPAXX exempts from California taxes? I thought I’d have to hold FDLXX Fidelity® Treasury Only Money Market Fund for that. I’ve been buying SPRXX in my account for the higher yield not knowing it’s probably about the same or lower than SPAXX tey :oops:

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