Fidelity as a one stop shop

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
mighty72
Moderator
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 11:22 pm
Location: Somewhere in the West

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by mighty72 »

The wiki also summaries this post. All are encouraged to add to the wiki if there is more relevant info. You can PM me if you are not a wiki contributor and I can add the info there.
https://bogleheads.org/wiki/Fidelity:_one_stop_shop
ndpage
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by ndpage »

FrugalProfessor wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:54 pm I tried to synthesize the entire thread into a single blog post here: https://www.frugalprofessor.com/cash-management/.

The overdraft setup is covered in the blog.

I use the brokerage as my true checking account and the CMA as the ATM checking account. Consequently, direct deposits go to the brokerage and are automatically allocated to SPAXX, my default core position.

Since writing the initial post a few months ago, I've transitioned everything but ATM from CMA to brokerage. My apologies for not updating the post accordingly (at the time, I'd pay my mortgage, credit cards, etc from CMA but eventually found the unnecessary OD transfers to be unruly to monitor in Personal Capital).
Ok, this makes more sense now: ATM card for the perpetually $0 balance CMA, and the checkwriting, direct deposit, and billpay connected to the brokerage SPAXX.

I probably should have done all this before starting a YNAB account. :) [I can always zero out the current budget and start over again once I close the various checking accounts and cut the savings accounts to the bare minimums while I wait for some CDs to mature.]
User avatar
bostondan
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan »

ndpage wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:54 pm Ok, this makes more sense now: ATM card for the perpetually $0 balance CMA, and the checkwriting, direct deposit, and billpay connected to the brokerage SPAXX.
Check if you have enough assets to qualify for free ATMs in the brokerage account. If you do qualify, then you have no need for a CMA account and can simplify to just using a brokerage account for everything.

I initially started going down the CMA/brokerage path, but then realized that as a private wealth level client I got everything free just using the brokerage account, so am using that as my only account now and it is working very well.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
ndpage
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by ndpage »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:08 pm
ndpage wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:54 pm Ok, this makes more sense now: ATM card for the perpetually $0 balance CMA, and the checkwriting, direct deposit, and billpay connected to the brokerage SPAXX.
Check if you have enough assets to qualify for free ATMs in the brokerage account. If you do qualify, then you have no need for a CMA account and can simplify to just using a brokerage account for everything.

I initially started going down the CMA/brokerage path, but then realized that as a private wealth level client I got everything free just using the brokerage account, so am using that as my only account now and it is working very well.
Sadly, I am nowhere near a private wealth level client. :( That's ok, I use about $75 in cash in a typical month, so one ATM transaction monthly to refill my wallet to $120 in cash
..
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:08 pm Check if you have enough assets to qualify for free ATMs in the brokerage account. If you do qualify, then you have no need for a CMA account and can simplify to just using a brokerage account for everything.

I initially started going down the CMA/brokerage path, but then realized that as a private wealth level client I got everything free just using the brokerage account, so am using that as my only account now and it is working very well.
How much is the private wealth level client? Any other benefits besides the free ATM?
My signature has been deleted.
User avatar
bostondan
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:39 pm
bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:08 pm Check if you have enough assets to qualify for free ATMs in the brokerage account. If you do qualify, then you have no need for a CMA account and can simplify to just using a brokerage account for everything.

I initially started going down the CMA/brokerage path, but then realized that as a private wealth level client I got everything free just using the brokerage account, so am using that as my only account now and it is working very well.
How much is the private wealth level client? Any other benefits besides the free ATM?
I don't know. We have about $6m at Fidelity. I think someone said it might be $250k to get the free ATMs?

Our total expense ratio for all investments at Fidelity is about 0.03%, so they're not making all that much money from us. I guess they just see me as a potential source of income for them if I ever stop being a DIY investor, or when I die and my heirs want to just let Fidelity manage the money (though I have advised my wife to let Vanguard manage it).

The primary benefit I have seen is that when I call through the Fidelity app (it logs in before placing the call) I have never had to wait more than 10 seconds to reach a human. That person is always extremely helpful and knowledgable. I once waited about 10 seconds and the person apologized profusely to me for making me wait so long. I think I must have a small group of people who take my calls, even when calling the main number, because I frequently get the same people even though I don't call that often. They also pre-fill my forms for me and will go to great lengths to fix whatever issue arises. They always offer to expedite anything I need. For example, I needed new checks and they had them out to me within 48 hours at no charge. I once found some a ton of old stock certificates from the 1960s in a drawer at our old house (after my father passed) and Fidelity did extensive research for free to determine if any of them had value and then deposited the shares in our account.

I think they basically treat me like they're making a ton of money off me because they should be if I have $6m there, but in reality they make almost nothing from me. It's possible they treat everybody this way, even if you have only $10 at Fidelity. I have no way to compare.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
FrugalProfessor
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 11:34 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by FrugalProfessor »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:08 pm
ndpage wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:54 pm Ok, this makes more sense now: ATM card for the perpetually $0 balance CMA, and the checkwriting, direct deposit, and billpay connected to the brokerage SPAXX.
Check if you have enough assets to qualify for free ATMs in the brokerage account. If you do qualify, then you have no need for a CMA account and can simplify to just using a brokerage account for everything.

I initially started going down the CMA/brokerage path, but then realized that as a private wealth level client I got everything free just using the brokerage account, so am using that as my only account now and it is working very well.
I was lucky enough to have the revered Finance Buff grace my blog and leave this same suggestion in a comment (https://www.frugalprofessor.com/cash-ma ... mment-2362). Unfortunately we don't have the $6M that bostondan has yet but are converging on $1M in the not-too-distant future at Fidelity. Despite that, the vast majority is tied up in employer sponsored accounts which don't count towards the $250k threshold.

So Alas, we've begun the CMA/brokerage path. It seems like a pain in the rear on paper, but in reality I seamlessly use the brokerage for 99.999% of my transactions and the CMA for the 0.001% of the time that I need cash. Given how rarely we use cash, we could almost be just as well served with the brokerage-only approach, but we like having the option of the free ATM for that once-in-a-blue-moon scenario. As documented in the blog post, the CMA overdraft setup is a one-time fixed cost of 5 minutes that you'll never have to mess with again.
Last edited by FrugalProfessor on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
I blog. Taxes are the lowest hanging source of alpha. I eat tax alpha for breakfast.
ChrisBenn
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:56 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by ChrisBenn »

Is there potential for an unintended Roth IRA interaction here? I'm under the impression that you can't make Roth contributions directly from a taxable brokerage- but instead have to withdraw it (From the taxable brokerage account) to a banking institution then fund the Roth through that (though in trying to google for this the question gets blurred by people trying to move equities or the like directly over).

Granted this doesn't mean you couldn't benefit from this; just that you might need to keep a standard bank account around with the minimum deposits/balances to negate fees. If I'm misunderstanding the regs though that makes this much simpler. If I'm not misunderstanding it, then I wonder if the FDIC CMA sweep would qualify as a Roth funding source?
zeal
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:28 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by zeal »

ChrisBenn wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:28 am Is there potential for an unintended Roth IRA interaction here? I'm under the impression that you can't make Roth contributions directly from a taxable brokerage- but instead have to withdraw it (From the taxable brokerage account) to a banking institution then fund the Roth through that (though in trying to google for this the question gets blurred by people trying to move equities or the like directly over).

Granted this doesn't mean you couldn't benefit from this; just that you might need to keep a standard bank account around with the minimum deposits/balances to negate fees. If I'm misunderstanding the regs though that makes this much simpler. If I'm not misunderstanding it, then I wonder if the FDIC CMA sweep would qualify as a Roth funding source?
Good question, Chris. I wasn't sure so I checked. I can confirm I made a contribution to my Fidelity Roth IRA from my Fidelity Brokerage account earlier this year. However, I do still keep an account open at my local credit union, since the nearest Fidelity branch is several hours away. This way I can still deposit cash when necessary and have access to any other things only available at a brick & mortar bank.
User avatar
FrugalProfessor
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 11:34 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by FrugalProfessor »

ChrisBenn wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:28 am Is there potential for an unintended Roth IRA interaction here? I'm under the impression that you can't make Roth contributions directly from a taxable brokerage- but instead have to withdraw it (From the taxable brokerage account) to a banking institution then fund the Roth through that (though in trying to google for this the question gets blurred by people trying to move equities or the like directly over).

Granted this doesn't mean you couldn't benefit from this; just that you might need to keep a standard bank account around with the minimum deposits/balances to negate fees. If I'm misunderstanding the regs though that makes this much simpler. If I'm not misunderstanding it, then I wonder if the FDIC CMA sweep would qualify as a Roth funding source?
When I fund my Traditional Fidelity IRA (as part of the backdoor Roth), I can choose either the CMA or the brokerage account as the funding source. My wife and I have a joint brokerage account so we can fund either of our IRAs with it.
I blog. Taxes are the lowest hanging source of alpha. I eat tax alpha for breakfast.
mervinj7
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by mervinj7 »

FrugalProfessor wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:57 pm
ChrisBenn wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:28 am Is there potential for an unintended Roth IRA interaction here? I'm under the impression that you can't make Roth contributions directly from a taxable brokerage- but instead have to withdraw it (From the taxable brokerage account) to a banking institution then fund the Roth through that (though in trying to google for this the question gets blurred by people trying to move equities or the like directly over).

Granted this doesn't mean you couldn't benefit from this; just that you might need to keep a standard bank account around with the minimum deposits/balances to negate fees. If I'm misunderstanding the regs though that makes this much simpler. If I'm not misunderstanding it, then I wonder if the FDIC CMA sweep would qualify as a Roth funding source?
When I fund my Traditional Fidelity IRA (as part of the backdoor Roth), I can choose either the CMA or the brokerage account as the funding source. My wife and I have a joint brokerage account so we can fund either of our IRAs with it.
Same here. Single joint CMA can fund two individual Traditional IRAs which are then converted to Roth IRAs. No restrictions on source in my experience but it's not exactly ChrisBenn's situation of contributing directly to a Roth IRA from a brokerage account. However, I don't see what it should be different.
mptfan
Posts: 6130
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by mptfan »

bostondan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:59 pm The primary benefit I have seen is that when I call through the Fidelity app (it logs in before placing the call) I have never had to wait more than 10 seconds to reach a human. That person is always extremely helpful and knowledgable. I once waited about 10 seconds and the person apologized profusely to me for making me wait so long.
Thank you for this, I was not aware that you could call through the Fidelity app, that is good to know.
ChrisBenn
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:56 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by ChrisBenn »

Thanks all for the info and confirmations on IRA funding viability!

I didn't originally expect there to be an issue, but some other articles around the internet brought that assumption into question. Good to hear it's a non issue.
lstone19
Posts: 845
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:33 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by lstone19 »

Perhaps ChrisBenn (or whatever source he is reading) is confusing the restriction on only contributing cash (no in-kind contributions) to mean no contributing from a brokerage account. But when you contribute from a brokerage account and assuming the money being contributed was in the core money market fund, Fidelity does not transfer shares of the money market fund, they sell them, contribute the cash, and then buy whatever money market fund is used as the core in the IRA (even if it's the same fund).
User avatar
obafgkm
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Fidelity as a one-stop shop

Post by obafgkm »

Wow.

This morning, before 6:00 am EDT, I initiated a transfer of just under $1000 from my Cash Management Account to my brick-and-mortar credit union account. About 8:00 am, I received an email from Fidelity saying the "EFT processed successfully."

This evening at 8:50 p.m., I checked, and the money was in my credit union account. :shock: I don't know when it arrived.

That is FAST. I've never seen money go from one institution to another the SAME DAY.
Minty
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:19 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Minty »

Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 4.125% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 shopping
User avatar
bostondan
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan »

Minty wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
What did Fidelity have to say about it?

Seems unlikely that Fidelity is less secure than any other major bank. Does anybody have access to your card? Is it still in your possession? Do you keep it in your wallet? Was it definitely a physical ATM and not an EFT transaction?
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11646
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Kevin M »

Minty wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Not that I think that this is common, but it's an example of why I have a CMA for ATM withdrawals only, with no overdraft from any other account set up. I think I have less than $20 in that account now, and have never even done an ATM withdrawal from it yet. Everything else is done with a brokerage account dedicated to cash management (separate from my main investing brokerage account), and this has been working flawlessly. I am private client, so could do free ATM withdrawals from the brokerage, but I didn't even request an ATM/debit card for this brokerage account, since I don't want it exposed to fraudulent ATM or debit transactions.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)
User avatar
bostondan
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan »

Kevin M wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:49 pm
Minty wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Not that I think that this is common, but it's an example of why I have a CMA for ATM withdrawals only, with no overdraft from any other account set up. I think I have less than $20 in that account now, and have never even done an ATM withdrawal from it yet. Everything else is done with a brokerage account dedicated to cash management (separate from my main investing brokerage account), and this has been working flawlessly. I am private client, so could do free ATM withdrawals from the brokerage, but I didn't even request an ATM/debit card for this brokerage account, since I don't want it exposed to fraudulent ATM or debit transactions.

Kevin
Got it. I created a new brokerage account, so it is the same as just using a separate CMA. This brokerage account is only used for being a “checking” account.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11646
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Kevin M »

bostondan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:07 pm
Kevin M wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:49 pm
Minty wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Not that I think that this is common, but it's an example of why I have a CMA for ATM withdrawals only, with no overdraft from any other account set up. I think I have less than $20 in that account now, and have never even done an ATM withdrawal from it yet. Everything else is done with a brokerage account dedicated to cash management (separate from my main investing brokerage account), and this has been working flawlessly. I am private client, so could do free ATM withdrawals from the brokerage, but I didn't even request an ATM/debit card for this brokerage account, since I don't want it exposed to fraudulent ATM or debit transactions.

Kevin
Got it. I created a new brokerage account, so it is the same as just using a separate CMA. This brokerage account is only used for being a “checking” account.
Exactly. A Fidelity rep explained this to me some time ago--I think before this thread started, but this thread has helped elucidate it.

As a tangent, at that time, all I wanted to do was have a Fidelity account that was easy to add external banks to, which is not the case for my main brokerage trust account. So I opened a POD CMA (POD = payable on death with named beneficiaries, accomplishes same probate avoidance objective as the trust), for some reason thinking that it would better suit my needs for this specific purpose, but when I called to ask some questions about it, the Fidelity rep explained to me that I could do everything I wanted with a POD brokerage account, so that's what I'm using now for "CM".

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)
User avatar
FrugalProfessor
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 11:34 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by FrugalProfessor »

Kevin M wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:49 pm
Minty wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
Not that I think that this is common, but it's an example of why I have a CMA for ATM withdrawals only, with no overdraft from any other account set up. I think I have less than $20 in that account now, and have never even done an ATM withdrawal from it yet. Everything else is done with a brokerage account dedicated to cash management (separate from my main investing brokerage account), and this has been working flawlessly. I am private client, so could do free ATM withdrawals from the brokerage, but I didn't even request an ATM/debit card for this brokerage account, since I don't want it exposed to fraudulent ATM or debit transactions.

Kevin
I like your system (ATM-only CMA with no overdraft protection from brokerage). It's safer than my system (ATM-only CMA w/ OD protection) because it places a ceiling on the maximum loss from fraud (no greater than the balance of the CMA account) but is more inconvenient because it forces me to plan ahead when using the ATM.

I use an ATM very sparingly (I seldom carry my card with me), so perhaps I'll park $20-$100 of SPRXX in the CMA in perpetuity on the off chance that I need to visit an ATM. If I need more cash, I'd know to simply execute the brokerage->CMA transfer before visiting the ATM.

Given that the brokerage account is my main checking account, perhaps I'll even set up my overdraft in opposite direction to how I have it set up currently. After changing directions, CMA funds would now cover shortfalls in the brokerage account in the event of a brokerage shortfall.

I like it.

Edit - On second thought it looks like I can't set up the overdraft protection in the other direction (CMA funds brokerage). Oh well. I'll turn of OD protection and simply park a few dollars in the CMA in the event of the rare ATM withdrawal.
I blog. Taxes are the lowest hanging source of alpha. I eat tax alpha for breakfast.
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

Kevin M wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:26 pm As a tangent, at that time, all I wanted to do was have a Fidelity account that was easy to add external banks to, which is not the case for my main brokerage trust account. So I opened a POD CMA (POD = payable on death with named beneficiaries, accomplishes same probate avoidance objective as the trust), for some reason thinking that it would better suit my needs for this specific purpose, but when I called to ask some questions about it, the Fidelity rep explained to me that I could do everything I wanted with a POD brokerage account, so that's what I'm using now for "CM".
I recently opened a trust account at Fido, and I just realized it is so much harder to link a bank account to it. There is no online ACH link setup (e.g. micro-deposits). I had to print out a PDF form and fill it in. I then scanned and submitted it by secure email. Fido replied and told me -- no sir, scanning does not work, you need to mail the hardcopy in or bring it to the investor center. :oops:

At this point, I'm not sure if I want to even move part of my trust assets to them. No promo bonus. Difficulty in adding new banks. I should probably just restrict myself to using their regular brokerage for checking.
My signature has been deleted.
Horsefly
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:13 am
Location: Colorado, mostly

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Horsefly »

indexfundfan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:46 pm I recently opened a trust account at Fido, and I just realized it is so much harder to link a bank account to it. There is no online ACH link setup (e.g. micro-deposits). I had to print out a PDF form and fill it in. I then scanned and submitted it by secure email. Fido replied and told me -- no sir, scanning does not work, you need to mail the hardcopy in or bring it to the investor center. :oops:

At this point, I'm not sure if I want to even move part of my trust assets to them. No promo bonus. Difficulty in adding new banks. I should probably just restrict myself to using their regular brokerage for checking.
Funny thing: In 2013, we set up our trust, and moved most of our non-IRA assets into it (including the bank and Fidelity). At that point I already had ACH / wire transfer set up from our Fidelity brokerage to our bank account. When we changed the registration of the Fidelity account to the trust, it all just stayed in place.

When we changed banks to get away from the thieves at Wells Fargo, we set up a new trust account at Ally. I re-set up everything to do transfers both ways between Ally and Fidelity, and everything worked great with no paper forms. The Fidelity brokerage is our spending money, so I move money to the bank maybe twice per month. Easy peasy.

Anyway, I never experienced the pain you went through. It's been quite nice.
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

Horsefly wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:39 pm
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:46 pm I recently opened a trust account at Fido, and I just realized it is so much harder to link a bank account to it. There is no online ACH link setup (e.g. micro-deposits). I had to print out a PDF form and fill it in. I then scanned and submitted it by secure email. Fido replied and told me -- no sir, scanning does not work, you need to mail the hardcopy in or bring it to the investor center. :oops:

At this point, I'm not sure if I want to even move part of my trust assets to them. No promo bonus. Difficulty in adding new banks. I should probably just restrict myself to using their regular brokerage for checking.
Funny thing: In 2013, we set up our trust, and moved most of our non-IRA assets into it (including the bank and Fidelity). At that point I already had ACH / wire transfer set up from our Fidelity brokerage to our bank account. When we changed the registration of the Fidelity account to the trust, it all just stayed in place.

When we changed banks to get away from the thieves at Wells Fargo, we set up a new trust account at Ally. I re-set up everything to do transfers both ways between Ally and Fidelity, and everything worked great with no paper forms. The Fidelity brokerage is our spending money, so I move money to the bank maybe twice per month. Easy peasy.

Anyway, I never experienced the pain you went through. It's been quite nice.
Good for you! I suppose the policies changed. Compared to this Fidelity policy, Vanguard's ACH setup is so much easier -- you only need the ABA and Acc numbers.

At Fidelity, even the ACH link for the regular brokerage account requires a copy of the check or a statement showing the account numbers.
My signature has been deleted.
Minty
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:19 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Minty »

bostondan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:02 am
Minty wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
What did Fidelity have to say about it?

Seems unlikely that Fidelity is less secure than any other major bank. Does anybody have access to your card? Is it still in your possession? Do you keep it in your wallet? Was it definitely a physical ATM and not an EFT transaction?
Fidelity said they would have the fraud department investigate. Yes, I have the card. Fidelity said it was an ATM withdrawal, which AFAIK can only be done with a physical card.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 4.125% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 shopping
boston10
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:44 am

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 »

indexfundfan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:12 pm At Fidelity, even the ACH link for the regular brokerage account requires a copy of the check or a statement showing the account numbers.
Are you sure your account isn't restricted in some way? Fidelity definitely doesn't require a check or statement to add an ACH link. Just routing number and account number.
mrmass
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:35 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by mrmass »

boston10 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:55 am
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:12 pm At Fidelity, even the ACH link for the regular brokerage account requires a copy of the check or a statement showing the account numbers.
Are you sure your account isn't restricted in some way? Fidelity definitely doesn't require a check or statement to add an ACH link. Just routing number and account number.
I have Fido, and for a time I wanted to make them my "bank" I found the account numbering system odd. See here https://www.fidelity.com/cash-managemen ... unt-number

setting up outside banks, etc was fine, but there's no tiny deposit to provide confidence. I still use them but send my paycheck to CapitalOne. It's very easy, and from there I can move it around very very easily.
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

boston10 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:55 am
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:12 pm At Fidelity, even the ACH link for the regular brokerage account requires a copy of the check or a statement showing the account numbers.
Are you sure your account isn't restricted in some way? Fidelity definitely doesn't require a check or statement to add an ACH link. Just routing number and account number.
I just did an experiment. For a credit union ABA 231381116, Fidelity asked me to upload a copy of the check.
For Bank of America ABA 121000358, it asked me for my BofA online login credentials.

So I guess whether you need to upload a check or statement depends on the bank you are trying to link to.

But if you have a trust account, you are required to print out the EFT form, complete it, attach your check or statement and bring it to their investor center or mail it in. Fidelity did not accept the forms when I uploaded them through their secure messaging system.

Vanguard does not require a check or statement; just the ABA + Acc numbers will do. This works for regular account or a trust account.
My signature has been deleted.
boston10
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:44 am

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 »

indexfundfan wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:22 am
boston10 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:55 am
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:12 pm At Fidelity, even the ACH link for the regular brokerage account requires a copy of the check or a statement showing the account numbers.
Are you sure your account isn't restricted in some way? Fidelity definitely doesn't require a check or statement to add an ACH link. Just routing number and account number.
I just did an experiment. For a credit union ABA 231381116, Fidelity asked me to upload a copy of the check.
For Bank of America ABA 121000358, it asked me for my BofA online login credentials.

So I guess whether you need to upload a check or statement depends on the bank you are trying to link to.

But if you have a trust account, you are required to print out the EFT form, complete it, attach your check or statement and bring it to their investor center or mail it in. Fidelity did not accept the forms when I uploaded them through their secure messaging system.

Vanguard does not require a check or statement; just the ABA + Acc numbers will do. This works for regular account or a trust account.
Interesting. I churn bank accounts to get bonuses, so I've entered 4-5 bank accounts into Fido within the last few months and I've either been able to use the online login to verify, they didn't require verification, or they've used micro-deposits. I've never been asked to upload a check (and I don't order checks for those accounts anyway). In fact my experience has been that Fido is more efficient than Vanguard in this regard (although I can't speak to trust accounts).

Is it possible there's some difference in the spelling or syntax of your name across accounts that's preventing them from verifying that the name matches? I know some banks use a real-time validation service to verify account ownership before allowing ACH transactions. I assume there's fuzzy logic in there to cover multiple spellings, account for differences in middle names and suffixes, etc, but I'm sure there's an error rate. Exceptions might require a manual check upload.
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

boston10 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:23 am
indexfundfan wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:22 am I just did an experiment. For a credit union ABA 231381116, Fidelity asked me to upload a copy of the check.
For Bank of America ABA 121000358, it asked me for my BofA online login credentials.

So I guess whether you need to upload a check or statement depends on the bank you are trying to link to.

But if you have a trust account, you are required to print out the EFT form, complete it, attach your check or statement and bring it to their investor center or mail it in. Fidelity did not accept the forms when I uploaded them through their secure messaging system.

Vanguard does not require a check or statement; just the ABA + Acc numbers will do. This works for regular account or a trust account.
Interesting. I churn bank accounts to get bonuses, so I've entered 4-5 bank accounts into Fido within the last few months and I've either been able to use the online login to verify, they didn't require verification, or they've used micro-deposits. I've never been asked to upload a check (and I don't order checks for those accounts anyway). In fact my experience has been that Fido is more efficient than Vanguard in this regard (although I can't speak to trust accounts).

Is it possible there's some difference in the spelling or syntax of your name across accounts that's preventing them from verifying that the name matches? I know some banks use a real-time validation service to verify account ownership before allowing ACH transactions. I assume there's fuzzy logic in there to cover multiple spellings, account for differences in middle names and suffixes, etc, but I'm sure there's an error rate. Exceptions might require a manual check upload.
That's interesting. For the account that requires check upload, I was never asked to enter my name, and no, there is no inconsistency with my name or address. You are asked the same questions -- Are you the owner, Account type = checking, Routing number and Account number.

You could try with credit union ABA 231381116 (PSECU) and a random Acc number. After you submit this information, you will then requested to upload the document before you can continue.
My signature has been deleted.
snowman
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:59 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by snowman »

boston10 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:23 am Interesting. I churn bank accounts to get bonuses, so I've entered 4-5 bank accounts into Fido within the last few months and I've either been able to use the online login to verify, they didn't require verification, or they've used micro-deposits. I've never been asked to upload a check (and I don't order checks for those accounts anyway). In fact my experience has been that Fido is more efficient than Vanguard in this regard (although I can't speak to trust accounts).
I am a churner as well, so I really like the ease with which one can create external links at Fidelity. I have never encountered request to upload a copy of a check or statement until several months ago. It really surprised me, as it was completely unexpected. So clearly there are banks out there where statement upload will be required, but it should not happen often.
YoungBogle
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:04 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by YoungBogle »

I’ve opened the accounts at Fidelity and am doing the 2 account set up where I am keeping $0 in CMA, and over-drafting from brokerage where cash is settled in SPAXX.

I recently tried to Venmo someone $50, however the Venmo wouldn’t go through as my “checking acct (CMA)” was at $0 balance. Has anyone else ran into this problem or have a solution?

I would rather not have to transfer from brokerage to CMA every time I Venmo someone.
Gadget
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Gadget »

YoungBogle wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:57 am I’ve opened the accounts at Fidelity and am doing the 2 account set up where I am keeping $0 in CMA, and over-drafting from brokerage where cash is settled in SPAXX.

I recently tried to Venmo someone $50, however the Venmo wouldn’t go through as my “checking acct (CMA)” was at $0 balance. Has anyone else ran into this problem or have a solution?

I would rather not have to transfer from brokerage to CMA every time I Venmo someone.
I do the same thing but with Google Pay and it works. I thought I've used paypal on it too. Haven't tried Venmo. But it's definitely possible to use the e payment systems with overdraft and 0 balance on the CMA.
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 1038
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

LOL at Fidelity TV commercials talking about their great money market rates for cash. 9X better than Schwab! Silence on Vanguard.
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:02 pm LOL at Fidelity TV commercials talking about their great money market rates for cash. 9X better than Schwab! Silence on Vanguard.
Unfortunately, Vanguard eliminated their VanguardAdvantage account.
My signature has been deleted.
User avatar
Cheez-It Guy
Posts: 1038
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Yes, I know. I had one.
BUBear29
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:20 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BUBear29 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:02 pm LOL at Fidelity TV commercials talking about their great money market rates for cash. 9X better than Schwab! Silence on Vanguard.
thanks for the insight
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.
User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11646
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Kevin M »

I've set up a number of external banks at Fidelity, and have had to use every one of the methods mentioned more than once: upload check or statement (quite common), micro deposits, and login authentication.

I had one recently where the login method failed (no idea why, as the names are identical on both accounts), and was not offered any of the other easy ways to do it--they wanted me to mail a form, so I just skipped it for now.

One workaround for trust accounts is that if you get an external bank set up for a non-trust account, Fidelity may add that bank to the trust account if you call and request it. They did this once for me.

Setting up external banks for a trust account at Vanguard is easier, but some things are harder. As I recall, Fidelity allowed online agent authorization (for me on my wife's trust account), but Vanguard requires a form to do this for trusts (individual and IRAs can be done online).

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)
muffins14
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by muffins14 »

YoungBogle wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:57 am I’ve opened the accounts at Fidelity and am doing the 2 account set up where I am keeping $0 in CMA, and over-drafting from brokerage where cash is settled in SPAXX.

I recently tried to Venmo someone $50, however the Venmo wouldn’t go through as my “checking acct (CMA)” was at $0 balance. Has anyone else ran into this problem or have a solution?

I would rather not have to transfer from brokerage to CMA every time I Venmo someone.
I use this setup as well and Venmo works for me every time with no issue. Are you certain the over-draft is set up correctly, and that you did in fact have money-market assets in the brokerage?
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

Kevin M wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:35 pm One workaround for trust accounts is that if you get an external bank set up for a non-trust account, Fidelity may add that bank to the trust account if you call and request it. They did this once for me.
Thanks Kevin. I talked to Fidelity a few days ago and the rep insisted that mailing in the EFT papers is needed "for security reasons".

I will try to call them again and see if your workaround works. Maybe they make an exception for private clients (which I am not).
My signature has been deleted.
User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11646
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Kevin M »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:54 pm
Kevin M wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:35 pm One workaround for trust accounts is that if you get an external bank set up for a non-trust account, Fidelity may add that bank to the trust account if you call and request it. They did this once for me.
Thanks Kevin. I talked to Fidelity a few days ago and the rep insisted that mailing in the EFT papers is needed "for security reasons".

I will try to call them again and see if your workaround works. Maybe they make an exception for private clients (which I am not).
To clarify, it didn't happen instantly. The rep had to put in a request, and then it got done within a few days. Maybe it's a case by case thing.

The way I have things set up now, I wouldn't even bother with the phone call. I can transfer instantly from the trust brokerage to the TOD brokerage or CMA, then do the transfer from the TOD brokerage or CMA to the bank. I guess if you want to avoid a few extra mouse clicks ...

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

Kevin M wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:08 pm To clarify, it didn't happen instantly. The rep had to put in a request, and then it got done within a few days. Maybe it's a case by case thing.

The way I have things set up now, I wouldn't even bother with the phone call. I can transfer instantly from the trust brokerage to the TOD brokerage or CMA, then do the transfer from the TOD brokerage or CMA to the bank. I guess if you want to avoid a few extra mouse clicks ...
My intended setup is different from yours. I wanted to make use of the margin capability in the trust account to gain quick availability of money from any check deposited or ACH pulls.

For example, I would link my online savings account (OSA) to the trust account. If I need quick access to the money in the OSA, I will initiate a pull using the trust account. The next day when the money arrives, I can immediately access the money and transfer it out to the CMA or regular brokerage without any holds (this is possible due to margin in the trust account). By having this setup, it allows me to avoid the 4 or 5-day holds placed on any cash that is pulled in.
My signature has been deleted.
User avatar
Kevin M
Posts: 11646
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Kevin M »

indexfundfan wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:51 pm
Kevin M wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:08 pm To clarify, it didn't happen instantly. The rep had to put in a request, and then it got done within a few days. Maybe it's a case by case thing.

The way I have things set up now, I wouldn't even bother with the phone call. I can transfer instantly from the trust brokerage to the TOD brokerage or CMA, then do the transfer from the TOD brokerage or CMA to the bank. I guess if you want to avoid a few extra mouse clicks ...
My intended setup is different from yours. I wanted to make use of the margin capability in the trust account to gain quick availability of money from any check deposited or ACH pulls.

For example, I would link my online savings account (OSA) to the trust account. If I need quick access to the money in the OSA, I will initiate a pull using the trust account. The next day when the money arrives, I can immediately access the money and transfer it out to the CMA or regular brokerage without any holds (this is possible due to margin in the trust account). By having this setup, it allows me to avoid the 4 or 5-day holds placed on any cash that is pulled in.
My main brokerage accounts are margin accounts, mainly to be able to do things like you mention.

I don't believe there is any cash hold with respect to transferring between Fidelity accounts, in which case you could just pull into the non-trust account then transfer it to the trust margin account, and the credit would offset any margin debit.

But, I also set up my cash management brokerage account as a margin account, and bought some Tbills on auto-roll to provide some margin for that account too. It exposes it to a bit more fraud potential, but I can limit that to whatever level I'm comfortable with, and again, no ATM/debit card for this account.

Kevin
Wiki ||.......|| Suggested format for Asking Portfolio Questions (edit original post)
User avatar
indexfundfan
Posts: 3048
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by indexfundfan »

Kevin M wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:35 pm I don't believe there is any cash hold with respect to transferring between Fidelity accounts, in which case you could just pull into the non-trust account then transfer it to the trust margin account, and the credit would offset any margin debit.
With this setup, the "instant cash" will be available in the trust account, e.g. for you to write a check. But this is what I wanted to avoid because I expect the trust account would have more assets at risk to fraud (especially since it has margin) if I use checks from this account frequently.

My intention is to use the non-trust brokerage as checking. It can get replenished quickly from the trust account using margin if needed. This will require an action on my part to move money from the trust to non-trust account. The "at risk" money is only in the non-trust account. I won't be using the checks from the trust account.
My signature has been deleted.
MisterBill
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MisterBill »

bostondan wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:02 am
Minty wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am Long-time Fidelity customer (as well as Vanguard) and just consolidated paycheck direct deposit, billpay, checking, etc. at Fidelity so I could make some interest. I've never actually used the ATM/Debit card, only electronic transactions. Today someone withdrew about $500 from an ATM 300 miles away. I hope this isn't how it is going to go.
What did Fidelity have to say about it?

Seems unlikely that Fidelity is less secure than any other major bank. Does anybody have access to your card? Is it still in your possession? Do you keep it in your wallet? Was it definitely a physical ATM and not an EFT transaction?
I also had fraudulent activity on my Fidelity debit card recently, fortunately it was only $28 and was an Amazon purchase. I had posted about it when it happened and it took a couple of weeks for me to get the money refunded to my account. One of their reps called me (oddly, on my landline number even though I had given them my cell phone as the contact when I submitted the fraudulent activity report We exchanged voice mails but never actually spoke.. The credit eventually showed up as a temporary but then I got a letter saying that they had refunded the money and were closing the case.

I had also contacted Amazon when I saw the charge and they said that they were opening a case and would get back to me. They never did. They also claimed that they had determined that the charge was fraudulent and had cancelled the order and the charge would not end up hitting my account, but it did.

Anyway what I wanted to say is that when the Fidelity person called me, the CallerID said BNY/Mellon, so not a small company and presumably competent. But I wonder if they've had some unpublicized breach.
User avatar
Leif
Posts: 2982
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:15 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Leif »

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. But recently I've seen Fidelity clear check deposits quickly. It use to take 4-5 business days for cash available for withdrawal. Now it seems to take 1-2 days. Very pleased to see that.
Gadget
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Gadget »

Leif wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:57 pm I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. But recently I've seen Fidelity clear check deposits quickly. It use to take 4-5 business days for cash available for withdrawal. Now it seems to take 1-2 days. Very pleased to see that.
Is your account new? The same thing happened to me when I first opened it. After a few weeks (not sure exactly), it seems to switch to the 1-2 days you mention.
User avatar
bostondan
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bostondan »

I encountered another issue, this time with bill pay. It does not allow me to select total balance, instead only paying the amount due. This results in the automatic payments being for $25 and leaving a balance on the credit card. BofA always allowed me to pay the full balance with ebills. I called Fidelity and they said this was correct functionality and nothing could be done.

The solution I found was to initiate the autopay on the credit card side, rather than through Fidelity bill pay. Not a huge hassle, but another little glitch in using Fidelity for banking.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel
User avatar
Leif
Posts: 2982
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:15 pm

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Leif »

Gadget wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:40 pm
Leif wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:57 pm I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. But recently I've seen Fidelity clear check deposits quickly. It use to take 4-5 business days for cash available for withdrawal. Now it seems to take 1-2 days. Very pleased to see that.
Is your account new? The same thing happened to me when I first opened it. After a few weeks (not sure exactly), it seems to switch to the 1-2 days you mention.
No. My account is around 20 years old. Perhaps a system wide change, which I certainly welcome. I've made a few posts in the past complaining it took much longer to clear than my B&M bank.
boston10
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:44 am

Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 »

bostondan wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:27 pm I encountered another issue, this time with bill pay. It does not allow me to select total balance, instead only paying the amount due. This results in the automatic payments being for $25 and leaving a balance on the credit card. BofA always allowed me to pay the full balance with ebills. I called Fidelity and they said this was correct functionality and nothing could be done.

The solution I found was to initiate the autopay on the credit card side, rather than through Fidelity bill pay. Not a huge hassle, but another little glitch in using Fidelity for banking.
I believe you can autopay in full with some payees but not others. It depends on what data they pass through to Fido's billpay service.
Post Reply