Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
OnTrack
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by OnTrack » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:43 am

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:07 pm
to my mind this depends on the buffet and on what service my server provides. At a high-end buffet, a server might take care of my drinks, check several times on how the meal is going, clear away plates and utensils once I use them, bring new utensils, refold my napkin each time I go to the buffet, etc.
I tip at buffets, but I really don't appreciate having my napkin refolded every time I get up. Never understood the point of that.

stoptothink
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by stoptothink » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:14 am

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:07 pm
Watty wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:20 pm
student wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:23 am
davebo wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:08 pm
Generally speaking, I tip like this:

-Movers are $20/person.
-Restaurants are 15-20%.
-Bars are probably just $1.00, whatever the bill is (assuming 2 drinks)
-Barbers usually $4 on a $16 hair cut, which is a little high now that I think about it.
-Furniture movers give $10.

I never tip housekeepers, mostly because I just don't think about it. I've heard people tip them $1/day per member of your family. That seems kind of high to me, but maybe you're making up for the vast majority that don't tip.

One thing I have an issue with is tipping based on the amount of the bill. Usually service should go up the more you spend, but then you have situations like when you're in Disneyworld. We were doing Free Dining and our bills would've been like $200 had we paid out of cash. The bill will mention that and then recommend that you tip 18-20%, which would mean something like a $45 tip for a buffet.
The tip for buffet is usually less. 10%. Emily Post tipping guide is a good starting point. https://emilypost.com/advice/general-tipping-guide/ This is what I follow except for housekeepers.
The idea of tipping at a buffet under normal circumstances is absurd.
Watty, to my mind this depends on the buffet and on what service my server provides. At a high-end buffet, a server might take care of my drinks, check several times on how the meal is going, clear away plates and utensils once I use them, bring new utensils, refold my napkin each time I go to the buffet, etc.

At buffets like those I would certainty want to tip, and perhaps at a higher rate than the 10% my dad taught me was appropriate for buffets.

Andy.
My sister paid her way completely through undergrad working at a popular local buffet (a Brazilian churrascaria). As a waitress, all she did was handle drink orders and bring the bill yet on a Saturday night she'd easily make $150-$200 in tips...on top of minimum wage.

michaeljc70
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:29 am

Watty wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:20 pm
student wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:23 am
davebo wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:08 pm
Generally speaking, I tip like this:

-Movers are $20/person.
-Restaurants are 15-20%.
-Bars are probably just $1.00, whatever the bill is (assuming 2 drinks)
-Barbers usually $4 on a $16 hair cut, which is a little high now that I think about it.
-Furniture movers give $10.

I never tip housekeepers, mostly because I just don't think about it. I've heard people tip them $1/day per member of your family. That seems kind of high to me, but maybe you're making up for the vast majority that don't tip.

One thing I have an issue with is tipping based on the amount of the bill. Usually service should go up the more you spend, but then you have situations like when you're in Disneyworld. We were doing Free Dining and our bills would've been like $200 had we paid out of cash. The bill will mention that and then recommend that you tip 18-20%, which would mean something like a $45 tip for a buffet.
The tip for buffet is usually less. 10%. Emily Post tipping guide is a good starting point. https://emilypost.com/advice/general-tipping-guide/ This is what I follow except for housekeepers.
The idea of tipping at a buffet under normal circumstances is absurd.
At some buffets they take your drink order and bring drinks. They also clear dirty plates, utensils and glasses. Is that not service?

They want tips at Chipotle/Panera/etc where you order at the counter, pick up your own food and bus your own table!

michaelingp
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by michaelingp » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:33 am

Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:22 pm


My wife tips 3 dollars at Panera where you order at the counter and then take your own order to the table and clean up after yourself. I think a little less on a 15 to 25 dollar meal is appropriate.
Just curious, where does she leave the tip? I don't think our Panera's have tip jars, and you can't just leave it on a clean table.

michaeljc70
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by michaeljc70 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:12 am

michaelingp wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:33 am
Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:22 pm


My wife tips 3 dollars at Panera where you order at the counter and then take your own order to the table and clean up after yourself. I think a little less on a 15 to 25 dollar meal is appropriate.
Just curious, where does she leave the tip? I don't think our Panera's have tip jars, and you can't just leave it on a clean table.
Not only does my Panera have a tip jar on the counter,when you pay by credit card the display offers several tipping options. Using a credit card there and at Chiptole was my way of avoiding tipping :shock: . I think tipping at fast food places is somewhat ridiculous.

dbr
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by dbr » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:26 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:12 am
michaelingp wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:33 am
Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:22 pm


My wife tips 3 dollars at Panera where you order at the counter and then take your own order to the table and clean up after yourself. I think a little less on a 15 to 25 dollar meal is appropriate.
Just curious, where does she leave the tip? I don't think our Panera's have tip jars, and you can't just leave it on a clean table.
Not only does my Panera have a tip jar on the counter,when you pay by credit card the display offers several tipping options. Using a credit card there and at Chiptole was my way of avoiding tipping :shock: . I think tipping at fast food places is somewhat ridiculous.
Sorry for referring to a rather lengthy article, but anyone might enjoy watching the experience of Mulder and Scully at Forowā sushi restaurant. One really should not neglect to tip the chefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rm9sbG93ZXJz Rm9sbG93ZXJz, by the way, is the title of the show and not a weird URL.

ERguy101
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by ERguy101 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am

Restaurants kill me ... if I order a fancy bourbon or wine, and it's like $60-$70, so I really owe the Waitr $14 (20%) for serving me the overpriced spirit? My solution is to stop drinking at restaurants.

student
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by student » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:58 am

ERguy101 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am
Restaurants kill me ... if I order a fancy bourbon or wine, and it's like $60-$70, so I really owe the Waitr $14 (20%) for serving me the overpriced spirit? My solution is to stop drinking at restaurants.
I know. It doesn't make sense to me either but I follow what is expected of us (15%-20% tip). I still drink at restaurant but $3 ice tea or $7 beer.

dbr
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:50 am

Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by dbr » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:10 pm

student wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:58 am
ERguy101 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am
Restaurants kill me ... if I order a fancy bourbon or wine, and it's like $60-$70, so I really owe the Waitr $14 (20%) for serving me the overpriced spirit? My solution is to stop drinking at restaurants.
I know. It doesn't make sense to me either but I follow what is expected of us (15%-20% tip). I still drink at restaurant but $3 ice tea or $7 beer.
It makes sense to the same degree it makes sense for the restaurant to make a large profit on wine and a small profit on fish.

Your solution is totally justified.

PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:18 pm

That’s an eminently sensible solution to your concern.

Those who chose to purchase expensive drinks but begrudge tipping on that luxury purchase run the risk of seeming stingy. Foregoing the luxury purchase avoids that perception.

Andy.
ERguy101 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am
Restaurants kill me ... if I order a fancy bourbon or wine, and it's like $60-$70, so I really owe the Waitr $14 (20%) for serving me the overpriced spirit? My solution is to stop drinking at restaurants.

michaeljc70
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by michaeljc70 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:20 pm

dbr wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:10 pm
student wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:58 am
ERguy101 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am
Restaurants kill me ... if I order a fancy bourbon or wine, and it's like $60-$70, so I really owe the Waitr $14 (20%) for serving me the overpriced spirit? My solution is to stop drinking at restaurants.
I know. It doesn't make sense to me either but I follow what is expected of us (15%-20% tip). I still drink at restaurant but $3 ice tea or $7 beer.
It makes sense to the same degree it makes sense for the restaurant to make a large profit on wine and a small profit on fish.

Your solution is totally justified.
It's not much different than the difference of tip on a meal that costs $100 and one that costs $15. The waiter still takes the order and it takes no more time to order a $10 entree than a $50 one. It is also not heavier for them to carry out to you. Maybe they say "is everything okay" and fill your water glass 5 times more than they need to at the expensive place....

student
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by student » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:02 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:20 pm
dbr wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:10 pm
student wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:58 am
ERguy101 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am
Restaurants kill me ... if I order a fancy bourbon or wine, and it's like $60-$70, so I really owe the Waitr $14 (20%) for serving me the overpriced spirit? My solution is to stop drinking at restaurants.
I know. It doesn't make sense to me either but I follow what is expected of us (15%-20% tip). I still drink at restaurant but $3 ice tea or $7 beer.
It makes sense to the same degree it makes sense for the restaurant to make a large profit on wine and a small profit on fish.

Your solution is totally justified.
It's not much different than the difference of tip on a meal that costs $100 and one that costs $15. The waiter still takes the order and it takes no more time to order a $10 entree than a $50 one. It is also not heavier for them to carry out to you. Maybe they say "is everything okay" and fill your water glass 5 times more than they need to at the expensive place....
Except at this one expensive restaurant that I sometimes go, the waiter gave me a chilled fork for the salad on a number of occasions. :shock: I think at expensive restaurants there are fewer tables per waiter and people take longer to eat their food over several courses in a meal, but I see your argument.

Godot
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Godot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:06 pm

msk wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:02 am
catdude wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:47 pm
I recently moved... I hired a moving company to haul my stuff from the old house to the new one. Their fee was about $575. They sent two guys out to do the job, which took about five hours.
Now, let's see. The guys get paid for their labor, that their employer charges over $100 per hour. How much to tip a plumber who charges you $60 per hour? :confused
I would love to find a plumber that charges only $60 an hour!
“There is man in his entirety, blaming his shoe when his foot is guilty.” ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

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FlyAF
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by FlyAF » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:08 pm

I worked at a super duper fancy, chic, trendy restaurant in my early 20's. The type where your local pro sports team athletes take people that they're trying to impress by blowing all of their $$$. Bottles of wine started in the hundreds and went into the tens of thousands. When spending that kind of money on booze, it is understood that 15-20% is NOT expected. Also when CEO types came in, food would go on the corporate card (15-20% tip) and the booze would be on a separate check paid on a personal card with a much more modest percentage tip.

I was young, but it was explained to me that this was understood throughout the entire industry. You're not expected to tip hundreds of dollars to have a waiter open a bottle of expensive wine.

Starfish
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Starfish » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:17 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:29 am
Watty wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:20 pm
student wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:23 am
davebo wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:08 pm
Generally speaking, I tip like this:

-Movers are $20/person.
-Restaurants are 15-20%.
-Bars are probably just $1.00, whatever the bill is (assuming 2 drinks)
-Barbers usually $4 on a $16 hair cut, which is a little high now that I think about it.
-Furniture movers give $10.

I never tip housekeepers, mostly because I just don't think about it. I've heard people tip them $1/day per member of your family. That seems kind of high to me, but maybe you're making up for the vast majority that don't tip.

One thing I have an issue with is tipping based on the amount of the bill. Usually service should go up the more you spend, but then you have situations like when you're in Disneyworld. We were doing Free Dining and our bills would've been like $200 had we paid out of cash. The bill will mention that and then recommend that you tip 18-20%, which would mean something like a $45 tip for a buffet.
The tip for buffet is usually less. 10%. Emily Post tipping guide is a good starting point. https://emilypost.com/advice/general-tipping-guide/ This is what I follow except for housekeepers.
The idea of tipping at a buffet under normal circumstances is absurd.
At some buffets they take your drink order and bring drinks. They also clear dirty plates, utensils and glasses. Is that not service?

They want tips at Chipotle/Panera/etc where you order at the counter, pick up your own food and bus your own table!
Then what do we pay for in a rerăsturnat? The rent of the place? In my mind the only thing I pay for is the service. That is why a beer is 6$ before taxes and tip, no 1$. The mark up is already high.

Starfish
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Starfish » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm

I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?

PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:29 pm

Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
Absolutely I do, and I’ve done so for decades. The hotel maids work hard to change your sheets and clean your toilet, and tips make a significant difference in their lives.

Why wouldn’t I want to help people who serve me under those circumstances? This doesn’t strike me as ridiculous at all, but rather humane.

Andy.

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celia
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Pick-up by a charity?

Post by celia » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:40 pm

I will soon be clearing out the house of someone who died. After the estate sale, I will call the thrift shop associated with a charity. Do the charity's haulers usually get tips? After all, the charity (their employer) will keep the proceeds from whatever they sell, but the haulers will likely only get their usual pay (as charity employees, I assume).

student
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by student » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:52 pm

Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I tip but I did not following my usual go-to guide, Emily Post. At my last stay, I think I was there two nights, I put out a do not disturb sign for my entire stay, and I think I gave $3. (I don't remember, it was a while ago. In general, I give between $1 and $2 per night and I do not require cleaning during my stay, so I only gave on the last stay.)

HereToLearn
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Re: Pick-up by a charity?

Post by HereToLearn » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:59 pm

celia wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:40 pm
I will soon be clearing out the house of someone who died. After the estate sale, I will call the thrift shop associated with a charity. Do the charity's haulers usually get tips? After all, the charity (their employer) will keep the proceeds from whatever they sell, but the haulers will likely only get their usual pay (as charity employees, I assume).
Celia--Sharing your logic about the workers' pay, we tipped the charity haulers, and then when I had to hire private haulers to take the furniture the charity haulers did not want, I tipped them also.

HereToLearn
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by HereToLearn » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I leave $5 daily instead of leaving a larger sum on the day I check out. Housekeepers are not paid well, and if I have the disposable income to stay in a hotel, then I can certainly spare $5 for housekeeping.

I don't leave the money on the pillow. I write "Housekeeping, Thank you" on the hotel notepad and leave the money there. I don't actually know where one is supposed to leave the tip.

criticalmass
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by criticalmass » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:27 am

Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I think most with a heart have done this for a long time, maids / housekeeping are the hardest working folks in the hotel and they get paid little. A few dollars to clean up after you, scrub the toilet, etc makes a HUGE difference in their lives. Remember to leave a small tip for every day of service instead of a larger tip on last day (unless you don’t have multiple days of housekeeping) as the maids often change their schedule or floors by day.
Last edited by criticalmass on Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

mrmass
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by mrmass » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:49 am

student wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:52 pm
Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I tip but I did not following my usual go-to guide, Emily Post. At my last stay, I think I was there two nights, I put out a do not disturb sign for my entire stay, and I think I gave $3. (I don't remember, it was a while ago. In general, I give between $1 and $2 per night and I do not require cleaning during my stay, so I only gave on the last stay.)
I do the same. DND on the door for the entire stay. Leave $2/day tip at the end

student
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by student » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:31 am

criticalmass wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:27 am
Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I think everyone with a heart does this for a century or so, maids / housekeeping are the hardest working folks in the hotel and they get paid little.
Although I tip, I do not believe the first part of the statement is accurate "I think everyone with a heart does this for a century or so," I think it is a more recent trend. http://money.com/money/3394185/tipping- ... s-history/ states that "until very recently, most travelers didn’t tip hotel maids" based on a couple of surveys. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ds/590410/ and https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/busi ... pping.html both claimed that the majority do not tip, with numbers such as 70% do not tip and I doubt they are all heartless people.

criticalmass
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by criticalmass » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 am

student wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:31 am
criticalmass wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:27 am
Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I think everyone with a heart does this for a century or so, maids / housekeeping are the hardest working folks in the hotel and they get paid little.
Although I tip, I do not believe the first part of the statement is accurate
I updated my post to address your concerns. I tipped at hotels beginning in the 1970s or 80s, but don't have a quick data point for the 1920s. I'm glad that I can directly help out someone who takes care of me and thanks to good investing strategies I have the means to do so.

RollTide31457
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by RollTide31457 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:47 am

Usually only tip ($2) at fancy restaurants like Golden Corral or Pizza Hut.

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sunny_socal
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by sunny_socal » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:10 am

I think you did fine OP!

Am I scrooge? This is how I tip:
- Nothing at any stand-up ordering restaurant (ie. where you get a number and take it back to your table)
- Nothing for Baristas if I'm getting coffee to go
- Nothing at hotels
- Pizza guy gets a few bucks
- I double the tax at restaurants. (I do not tip 15% of the bill total! Double the tax is roughly 15% of the order total.)

My in-laws tip about 25%. When eating out with a large group this can sometimes become outrageous ($80-100 for the tip alone.)

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LilyFleur
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by LilyFleur » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:22 am

HereToLearn wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:01 pm
Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?

I leave $5 daily instead of leaving a larger sum on the day I check out. Housekeepers are not paid well, and if I have the disposable income to stay in a hotel, then I can certainly spare $5 for housekeeping.

I don't leave the money on the pillow. I write "Housekeeping, Thank you" on the hotel notepad and leave the money there. I don't actually know where one is supposed to leave the tip.
+1
I have left it on the unmade bed in the past, but I like writing a little thank you note as well.
I make a point of going to the bank for $5 bills before I travel, as I seldom use cash at home.
Most of these maids are immigrants with families to support.
Sometimes I leave the "Do Not Disturb" sign up all day because I like the privacy.

Starfish
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Starfish » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:06 pm

criticalmass wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:27 am
Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I think most with a heart have done this for a long time, maids / housekeeping are the hardest working folks in the hotel and they get paid little. A few dollars to clean up after you, scrub the toilet, etc makes a HUGE difference in their lives. Remember to leave a small tip for every day of service instead of a larger tip on last day (unless you don’t have multiple days of housekeeping) as the maids often change their schedule or floors by day.
I am over 40, I stayed in hotels/motels/airbnbs hundreds of nights but it never crossed my mind - forget my heart - to leave a tip in a hotel. I heard about this only recently.
It does not make any sense because I already pay a large price per night for the hotel for a small amount of real estate. The reason why I pay that price is the service. Why would I pay more for something I already paid for?
I don't see the relevance of how much are maids paid and how hard is the work. There are plenty of people working hard with low pay, am I supposed to tip them all?
For example should I throw some money from the car at the worker who is cleaning the highway because he cleans for me and I have the disposable income to have a car? Should I live some money in my cubicle for the people who clean it and throw the garbage?

The tipping culture is going so crazy that now I see tip by default in ice cream places and coffee shops. 10-15% is prechecked, I have to move it back to 0. For pouring a drip coffee. Isn't that already paid for when I pay 3-4$ for the coffee or 7-8$ for the ice cream?

Starfish
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Starfish » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:03 pm

And it gets crazier. Just stumbled across another tipping topic for a Costco delivery. A lot of topics on this forum are about "how much should I tip?". If people who lived in a country for tens of years don't know how much to tip (and the answers are all over the place: from 0, inappropriate to 20$ a person) for a very simple standardized service, something is very wrong.

PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 pm

Starfish, consider cases where, first, you receive personal service from an individual and, second, the price you pay for that service includes a living wage or less for the person providing you that service.

If you don’t want to tip those people to recognize their service to you, you don’t have to. But it is naive to assume the price you pay for the service includes adequate compensation for the service they provide to you.

Some of us wish to reward exemplary service or simply add to the compensation of those who provide us personal service. You may not choose to do so, but it doesn’t strike me as ridiculous for others to choose to help those who serve them.

If what you find ridiculous isn’t that personal choice, but rather social norms to view negatively those who choose not to tip in socially sanctioned contexts, that is perfectly understandable because social norms by their nature aren’t rational and there is a perfectly reasonable way on which they can be viewed as ridiculously arbitrary.

You probably won’t be able to change strongly-seated tipping norms, but you can certainty learn to accept with equanimity the price of violating them.


Andy.




Starfish wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:06 pm
criticalmass wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:27 am
Starfish wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:20 pm
I read somewhere that nowadays is expected to live a tip on the pillow in hotel for the cleaning service. Does anybody really do this?
It's so ridiculous, where does it stop?
I think most with a heart have done this for a long time, maids / housekeeping are the hardest working folks in the hotel and they get paid little. A few dollars to clean up after you, scrub the toilet, etc makes a HUGE difference in their lives. Remember to leave a small tip for every day of service instead of a larger tip on last day (unless you don’t have multiple days of housekeeping) as the maids often change their schedule or floors by day.
I am over 40, I stayed in hotels/motels/airbnbs hundreds of nights but it never crossed my mind - forget my heart - to leave a tip in a hotel. I heard about this only recently.
It does not make any sense because I already pay a large price per night for the hotel for a small amount of real estate. The reason why I pay that price is the service. Why would I pay more for something I already paid for?
I don't see the relevance of how much are maids paid and how hard is the work. There are plenty of people working hard with low pay, am I supposed to tip them all?
For example should I throw some money from the car at the worker who is cleaning the highway because he cleans for me and I have the disposable income to have a car? Should I live some money in my cubicle for the people who clean it and throw the garbage?

The tipping culture is going so crazy that now I see tip by default in ice cream places and coffee shops. 10-15% is prechecked, I have to move it back to 0. For pouring a drip coffee. Isn't that already paid for when I pay 3-4$ for the coffee or 7-8$ for the ice cream?

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by z91 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:34 pm

Yay monthly tipping thread :sharebeer

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by michaelingp » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm

Starfish wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:06 pm

The tipping culture is going so crazy that now I see tip by default in ice cream places and coffee shops. 10-15% is prechecked, I have to move it back to 0. For pouring a drip coffee. Isn't that already paid for when I pay 3-4$ for the coffee or 7-8$ for the ice cream?
I don't think this is the tipping culture going crazy. It's just technology inserting itself. In the old days, you had a cash register that rang up the amount you paid, and a tip jar that you put a buck in (or not). Now they all have iPads, which are programmed to ask you for a tip. Whether the coffee shop has much control over this or not I don't know, but I just cancel the suggested 15% or whatever, and put in $1 (or whatever). Never has a cashier ever looked at me sideways, or, conversely, thanked me. In other words, the tip is still 100% voluntary. By the way, my wife hates this, and thinks it puts undue pressure on her to leave a tip which she wouldn't have lacking the iPad "register", but I think this is irrational. Just cancel the tip suggested by the machine and do what you wish.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Starfish » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:01 pm

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 pm
Starfish, consider cases where, first, you receive personal service from an individual and, second, the price you pay for that service includes a living wage or less for the person providing you that service.
I receive some kind of personal service almost everywhere and it is still not very clear to me where I should tip and where I should not.
For example in Safeway very nice people scan and bag personally for me. Why not tip them? What about Starbucks?
If you don’t want to tip those people to recognize their service to you, you don’t have to. But it is naive to assume the price you pay for the service includes adequate compensation for the service they provide to you.
The way I see it companies use tipping as a way to increase profit and reduce expenses. They don't pay the workers and assume the tips will take care f it.
Some of us wish to reward exemplary service or simply add to the compensation of those who provide us personal service.
This is exactly what tipping should be. It should be a compensation for extraordinary, above standard, service (except few paces like restaurants).
But it is not that anymore. Regardless of the service, tipping is the social norm. If you don't tip either because you are not provided extraordinary service or you do not desire above standard service there will be public shaming.
If what you find ridiculous isn’t that personal choice, but rather social norms to view negatively those who choose not to tip in socially sanctioned contexts, that is perfectly understandable because social norms by their nature aren’t rational and there is a perfectly reasonable way on which they can be viewed as ridiculously arbitrary.
If this was a social norm, we wouldn't see every other week a topic about tipping.
The social norms are manipulated and people are confused. The times when you tipped only your waiter, barber and taxi driver are long gone. Now there is long list of people you don't know f you are supposed o tip or not.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:15 pm

Starfish, I appreciate your thoughtful reply to my post.

I agree the various social norms associated with contexts where tipping is or is not expected are not all equally established in our culture. This is perhaps to be expected because there is no single “norm of tipping” that applies in all contexts.

The social sanctions for choosing not to tip in situations where the norms are well-established also strike me as harsh: Folks who flaunt those norms might be perceived as selfish, uncaring, greedy, heartless. That other, more weakly-established norms also exist means that there is much possibility for confusion and uncertainty about how others might judge us.

This messiness may be a reason why tipping is a recurring. theme in BH discussions — there is much to discuss, and quite a bit at stake for recipients, givers, and non-givers of tips.

Andy.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by dboeger1 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 pm

I've always been a generous tipper as an adult, having learned from my father growing up, who tipped generously even in uncommon tipping situations including other countries where tipping is generally not practiced. Even so, I'm getting sick of tipping in the US and wish the practice would just die out. I mean, okay, I'm all for voluntarily being able to tip more, and if people want to do that, that's totally fine. In fact, I still do tip generously and rather enjoy it when the service is good. But I think the idea of shaming people who don't tip, or certain industries secretly mandating tips by skirting around minimum wage laws, is just fundamentally broken.

My wife is from China, and I can't tell you how frustrating it is every time we have to come to an agreement on tipping. It's just such a culturally foreign concept to her. To her, the price is the price, and if it's not enough, that's on the seller, not the buyer. She hates having to be responsible for tipping a server's pay up to minimum wage. And why shouldn't she? She didn't do anything wrong. It's the employer that's giving the servers a raw deal.

Then there's also the whole idea that servers are even entitled to a living wage in the first place. I'm sorry, but that's not how free market economics work. The idea that you can mandate that someone's labor is worth X amount is what crumbled many a communist system, and the remaining regimes around the world have largely abandoned that idea in favor of free market economics. There's a reason ice makers don't make what they used to. It's not because they don't work as hard. It's because they're obsolete now that everyone has a freezer at home. The value of things naturally evolves over time with changing market forces. I know this is not a popular thing to say, but in the age of technology and being able to order what you want and have it in a moment's notice, the assertion that all servers deserve a living wage keeping up with inflation is just flat out wrong. Bringing you a drink just isn't that valuable of a service anymore. There have been many times I've gone to a restaurant and had terrible service that would have been greatly improved by automation. I generally tipped well in those situations because I know those people need the money, but try explaining that to my wife. And you can be absolutely sure I stop going to those places as soon as I have a bad experience. So in the end, they lost my business anyway. Why would I willingly give an extra gratuity to an obsolete business model again and again? My sympathy doesn't really extend past the initial consumption.

As someone else mentioned, how is it normal that millions of Americans are clueless as to how tipping works despite living here their entire lives? Something's wrong with the system. There are way too many inconsistencies, and trying to paint it as a moral issue just ends up leading to hypocrisy. The only way this nonsense is ever going to stop is if tips stop becoming de facto standards. As consumers, Americans really need to stand up for themselves and defend the fact that gratuities should be completely optional. No more secret costs. If a service costs more than the price, then raise the price, simple as that. And if it can't stay competitive, then I'm sorry, but it's no longer a good business, and needs to be changed to become profitable again.

For me, this has taken the form of refusing to eat at establishments were tipping is the norm unless I specifically go into it wanting to pay generously for an outstanding experience. This means I'll pass on a typical sit-down restaurant like Applebee's in favor of a counter-serve option like Chipotle, and then on special occasions I'll splurge for a nice steakhouse or something where I'm willing to tip well for a much better experience. The other way I'll go to a tipping place is if I get a really good deal through Groupon or something like that, so then I can justify tipping well because it feels like a larger than normal percentage of my bill is going to the server. The way I see it, if businesses want to play this game where they thrust the responsibility to pay servers on me, then I'll play the coupon game right back and cut their margins razor thin. I refuse to pay full price in order to support a business' healthy margins and then be expected to pay the employees a living wage on behalf of the business, otherwise be shamed as the cheap Scrooge.

I get that it's not comparing apples to apples because the prices would be further inflated if wages went up, but again, that's what every non-tipping industry deals with. If my wages go up as a software engineer, either the company has to eat the cost, raise prices, or my productivity has to go up in the market. Why shouldn't my company's customers tip me for spending long hours in a cubicle? Is that immoral of them? Sure, I make substantially more than a typical waiter, but last I checked, right and wrong wasn't about what each person made. In fact, I've received what could be called tips for helping friends and family with computer problems, so it's not like some crazy talk I'm spewing here. But notice those tips are not systematically enforced or strongly encouraged; I received those out of pure appreciation. If I had done those favors saying, "Yeah, I'll do it for free, but you better tip me otherwise I'll rant about you online and demand legal action on my behalf," that'd be pretty nasty of me. I think too many people are conflating the issue of inequality with the issue of tipping. Inequality is a huge problem in the US and across the world. Many of these servers who depend on tips work for peanuts compared to the wealthy among us. It's terrible. But that does not change the fact that the tipping system is broken, nobody knows how it works, and the whole thing feels like walking on egg shells. Unfortunately, certain industries have tied those things together in our collective consciousness, and it's why so many people try to claim the moral high ground when it comes to tipping.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by dbr » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:04 pm

I have observed in my community that some efforts to provide tip free service with higher wages for servers have failed miserably. I don't have analysis of the exact issue. What can be said is that some retauranteurs have or do try and it is a mixed picture for success.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by SandysDad » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:39 pm

I have pretty much had it with tips being expected in non sub minimum wage jobs.

My rule is simple. If it’s not a full service restaurant or other sub minimum wage job, it’s optional. I frequently do it, but it’s my choice and I don’t feel guilty if I don’t.

I do tip for above and beyond service. Like a delivery guy who hauled a bunch of curb side delivered furn around the block for me. Tried to give him 50 he refused to take more than 20.

The point is. Don’t let a bunch of people tell you the customer that you have to pay extra to everyone you encounter.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by criticalmass » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:16 am

Starfish wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:01 pm
PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 pm
Starfish, consider cases where, first, you receive personal service from an individual and, second, the price you pay for that service includes a living wage or less for the person providing you that service.
I receive some kind of personal service almost everywhere and it is still not very clear to me where I should tip and where I should not.
For example in Safeway very nice people scan and bag personally for me. Why not tip them? What about Starbucks?
I don’t know about Safeway, but tipping the baggers at the military commissaries (supermarkets) has been customary for as long as there have been modern commissaries. They also carry your food to your car. They are typically sons or daughters of military families and may not get any much other pay.

If you don’t want to tip a very appreciative hotel maid a dollar or two a day for personalized service to you as a job well done, then don’t. That’s your choice.
Last edited by criticalmass on Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by criticalmass » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:21 am

dboeger1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 pm

My wife is from China, and I can't tell you how frustrating it is every time we have to come to an agreement on tipping. It's just such a culturally foreign concept to her. To her, the price is the price, and if it's not enough, that's on the seller, not the buyer. She hates having to be responsible for tipping a server's pay up to minimum wage. And why shouldn't she? She didn't do anything wrong. It's the employer that's giving the servers a raw deal.
One place I never tip is a Chinese hairdresser (even in USA). They don’t expect tips because their primary clientele never tips. So their pricing and pay is setup without any assumptions of customer tipping.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Cheez-It Guy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:00 am

criticalmass wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:16 am
If you don’t want to tip a very appreciative hotel maid a dollar or two a day for personalized service to you as a job well done, then don’t. That’s your choice.
I realize we’ve already had some discussion on this in another thread, and that opinions on either side are probably unlikely to change, but the subtext of your wording in several similar posts seems to indicate that choosing not to tip who you view as poorly-compensated and / or appreciative and deserving employees is some sort of moral failing. I think it is important to separate the assessed status of the individuals from a flawed system. That is the only way the situation has a chance of improving. There are numerous other cultures where this is not expected, and even some where it is insulting and actively discouraged.

Do you like tipping because it makes you feel good, because you think it is a good and fair system, or both? To me, in many instances, it just feels like getting scammed or extorted. The original idea of tipping has become so distorted. For instance, in restaurants, I pretty much tip the same percentage regardless of service level for fear of being judged or because maybe the person who just gave me marginal to poor service is just having a bad day and I don’t want to inadvertently take food out of their babies’ mouths or make them have to choose between taking their prescription anti-anxiety medication and paying their premium cable bill.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am

To me, possible abstract talk of economic systems doesn’t go very far in these discussions without consideration of the lives led by individuals living within a specific system.

Certainly people living within an economic system can bear specific moral relations to one another related to economic facts about their lives within that system. Recognizing that one’s economic system is flawed, that significant aspects of one’s system are contingent, that one’s own system is and different from systems in place elsewhere does not dissolve the moral ties that bind those living within a system.

So, it is certainly possible that choosing not to tip is a moral failing in specific circumstances. Not every decision about whether to tip is morally fraught, but I believe that some might be.

Deciding not to tip (and agreeing to live with the social sanction that generates) may be an effective way to change our economic system in ways that you think would correct some of its flaws, but it isn’t obvious that this is the case, much less that it is the only way to achieve such change.

All that said, my decisions to tip have little to do with my abstract assessment of our economic system or a desire to change it. Rather, I see myself as connected to individuals who provide me with service and whom (in some cases) I want to tip and (in others) I believe I have a moral obligation to tip. Others are free to exercise their autonomy as they see fit and may not have similar desires or understand their moral obligations the same way I do. That is fine.



Andy.
Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:00 am
^^I realize we’ve already had some discussion on this in another thread, and that opinions on either side are probably unlikely to change, but the subtext of your wording in several posts seems to indicate that choosing not to tip who you view as poorly-compensated and / or appreciative and deserving employees is some sort of moral failing. I think it is important to separate the status of the individuals from a flawed system. That is the only way the situation has a chance of improving. There are numerous other cultures where this is not expected, and even some where it is insulting and actively discouraged. Do you like tipping because it makes you feel good, because you think it is a good and fair system, or both? To me, in many instances, it just feels like getting scammed or extorted.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:29 am

Criticalmass, I remember, when I was maybe four or five, being jealous that my grandmother gave a quarter to the “bag boys” who bagged her groceries, carried them outside, and put them in the trunk of her car.

I’ve never seen anyone tip baggers at mi local Safeway, and I’ve never done so, but I imagine that tooling there would be normal if they provided the same services my grandmother enjoyed.

I was pleased to learn that this custom still exists in some places.


Andy.
criticalmass wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:16 am
Starfish wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:01 pm
PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 pm
Starfish, consider cases where, first, you receive personal service from an individual and, second, the price you pay for that service includes a living wage or less for the person providing you that service.
I receive some kind of personal service almost everywhere and it is still not very clear to me where I should tip and where I should not.
For example in Safeway very nice people scan and bag personally for me. Why not tip them? What about Starbucks?
I don’t know about Safeway, but tipping the baggers at the military commissaries (supermarkets) has been customary for as long as there have been modern commissaries. They also carry your food to your car. They are typically sons or daughters of military families and may not get any much other pay.

If you don’t want to tip a very appreciative hotel maid a dollar or two a day for personalized service to you as a job well done, then don’t. That’s your choice.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by Cheez-It Guy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:33 am

^^Well taken.

As I’ve stated previously elsewhere, I DO tip an amount that I feel is beyond reproach in situations that unfortunately demand it, but expanding the base of activities that require or expect tipping as many seem happy to do is actively harming the system for the consumer. Employers quickly realize that their employees are being subsidized by generous customers, and that they can reduce benefits accordingly. In the end, the worker is really no better off, the consumer is WORSE off, and the company or corporation wins.

So is there some more effective way to use your funds to drive a positive social change without damaging the system for those who disagree with it?

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by criticalmass » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:11 am

Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:33 am
^^Well taken.

As I’ve stated previously elsewhere, I DO tip an amount that I feel is beyond reproach in situations that unfortunately demand it, but expanding the base of activities that require or expect tipping as many seem happy to do is actively harming the system for the consumer. Employers quickly realize that their employees are being subsidized by generous customers, and that they can reduce benefits accordingly. In the end, the worker is really no better off, the consumer is WORSE off, and the company or corporation wins.

So is there some more effective way to use your funds to drive a positive social change without damaging the system for those who disagree with it?
That may not be true in some cases (e.g. Hotel housekeeper earning minimum wage doesn't have anything to lose) but certainly is true in some cases, eg cruise industry. Remember when cruises were virtually tip free? I do. Today the entire customer facing service staff depends on tips to survive and cruise operators have made "gratuities" all but mandatory. Cruises are advertised with rock bottom prices to compete but naturally they don't include the automatic tips.

This is interesting on itineraries with passengers from differing cultures. Americans tend to accept it. The first thing many British passengers upon embarking is opt out of the automatic gratuities at customer service which can be done per fine print. But regular wage laws don't apply aboard and compensation has been shifted from the operator to customer.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by stoptothink » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:37 am

It's just easier to not partake in any services where tips are now expected. This definitely isn't the primary reason we literally never eat out, I move and install my own appliances, I have moved all our stuff myself both times we've moved, I put the "do not disturb" sign on perpetually when staying in hotels when traveling for work, etc., but it has definitely crossed my mind as a factor.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by student » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:24 am

criticalmass wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:11 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:33 am
^^Well taken.

As I’ve stated previously elsewhere, I DO tip an amount that I feel is beyond reproach in situations that unfortunately demand it, but expanding the base of activities that require or expect tipping as many seem happy to do is actively harming the system for the consumer. Employers quickly realize that their employees are being subsidized by generous customers, and that they can reduce benefits accordingly. In the end, the worker is really no better off, the consumer is WORSE off, and the company or corporation wins.

So is there some more effective way to use your funds to drive a positive social change without damaging the system for those who disagree with it?
That may not be true in some cases (e.g. Hotel housekeeper earning minimum wage doesn't have anything to lose) but certainly is true in some cases, eg cruise industry. Remember when cruises were virtually tip free? I do. Today the entire customer facing service staff depends on tips to survive and cruise operators have made "gratuities" all but mandatory. Cruises are advertised with rock bottom prices to compete but naturally they don't include the automatic tips.

This is interesting on itineraries with passengers from differing cultures. Americans tend to accept it. The first thing many British passengers upon embarking is opt out of the automatic gratuities at customer service which can be done per fine print. But regular wage laws don't apply aboard and compensation has been shifted from the operator to customer.
The cruise industry is an interesting example. If memory serves, I think they were upfront about this when I booked online. Interestingly, upscale cruise lines usually include gratuities in the price. https://www.travelmarketreport.com/arti ... Gratuities I have never been to one. (Way too expensive.)

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:34 am

student wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:24 am
criticalmass wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:11 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:33 am
^^Well taken.

As I’ve stated previously elsewhere, I DO tip an amount that I feel is beyond reproach in situations that unfortunately demand it, but expanding the base of activities that require or expect tipping as many seem happy to do is actively harming the system for the consumer. Employers quickly realize that their employees are being subsidized by generous customers, and that they can reduce benefits accordingly. In the end, the worker is really no better off, the consumer is WORSE off, and the company or corporation wins.

So is there some more effective way to use your funds to drive a positive social change without damaging the system for those who disagree with it?
That may not be true in some cases (e.g. Hotel housekeeper earning minimum wage doesn't have anything to lose) but certainly is true in some cases, eg cruise industry. Remember when cruises were virtually tip free? I do. Today the entire customer facing service staff depends on tips to survive and cruise operators have made "gratuities" all but mandatory. Cruises are advertised with rock bottom prices to compete but naturally they don't include the automatic tips.

This is interesting on itineraries with passengers from differing cultures. Americans tend to accept it. The first thing many British passengers upon embarking is opt out of the automatic gratuities at customer service which can be done per fine print. But regular wage laws don't apply aboard and compensation has been shifted from the operator to customer.
The cruise industry is an interesting example. If memory serves, I think they were upfront about this when I booked online. InteThe restingly, upscale cruise lines usually include gratuities in the price. https://www.travelmarketreport.com/arti ... Gratuities I have never been to one. (Way too expensive.)
I haven't seen it as much recently, but in the past I remember how the maître d'
would come and ask how your meal was and chit chat before the end of the cruise when it was tipping time. I always thought it was a joke as they never did anything directly for me the whole cruise. The chats seemed force and blatantly geared toward "earning" a tip.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by student » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:51 am

PhilosophyAndrew wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am
So, it is certainly possible that choosing not to tip is a moral failing in specific circumstances. Not every decision about whether to tip is morally fraught, but I believe that some might be.
I think the moral aspect can be applied to almost any action? Should I buy a pair of shoes that was made in a third world country with possible bad working conditions, should I use plastic or paper bag, and should I shop at a place that treats the workers badly?

When I tip, I simply follow the "rules" that I learned when I was growing up and I consult Emily Post if I need additional info. Basically, 15%-18% at sit down restaurants (20% at several places that I visit frequently), 10% at buffet restaurants, and no tip at McDonald, Panera and for take-out.

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Re: Did I commit a tipping faux pas?

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:20 pm

This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted, derailed). See: Locked Topics
Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.
(Tipping discussions can continue in other threads.)
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