BofA ShopSafe going away

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
cu_
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:12 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by cu_ »

HRPennypacker wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:14 pm I figured only the Bogleheads would share my disappointment at hearing that ShopSafe is going away...

Anyone have direct experience with Privacy?
I used privacy few times. With Shopsafe going away, I will probably use privacy.com more. The positive is, it is more convenient than shopsafe as it has an app for your phone where you can generate the numbers. Negative obviously is, the money is coming out of a checking account rather than a credit card.
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:01 pm
GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:52 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:56 pm
GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:48 pm Since BofA has excellent fraud detection and has never failed to credit me back for a fraudulent charge, I have little concern about that. However, I have used ShopSafe extensively for subscriptions. This is in case they don't cancel when I request, or I just forget to cancel. I also need it for my kid's online game purchases for obvious reasons (although gift cards or prepaid debit cards would work ine for that).

I need a service that allows both a time limit and a dollar limit.
It sounds like both Citi and Capitol One provide a service that would provide both of those, is that correct?
Citi does, yes. I don't give Capital One my credit card business, so can't comment.
Looks like Citi Double Cash is the way to go for a VAN replacement. I'm thinking I'll use my AMEX Bluebird for one-time purchases like my kid's online game stuff, and the Citi Double Cash card using their VAN service for subscriptions and other stuff. If Citi lets me increase the dollar limit after first use (like Shopsafe did) I could also use it for subscription renewals.

PS: I hate auto-renewals.
Just be aware that as of 9/22, Citi DoubleCash loses the following benefits:

- additional 2 year warranty
- Price Rewind
- 90 day return protection
- lost baggage protection
- trip delay protection
- worldwide car rental insurance

and more.

Costco Visa by Citi keeps some of these, like the additional 2 year warranty.
Those look like great perks, but I really just want the VAN feature so Citi Double Cash will work fine for that.
Is the Costco VISA retaining the rental insurance? That's really the only one of those features I would use.

If anyone has a better choice for a credit card with the VAN feature please let us know.
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by RickBoglehead »

GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:46 pm

Those look like great perks, but I really just want the VAN feature so Citi Double Cash will work fine for that.
Is the Costco VISA retaining the rental insurance? That's really the only one of those features I would use.

If anyone has a better choice for a credit card with the VAN feature please let us know.
Yes.

https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credi ... conversion
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:07 pm
GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:46 pm

Those look like great perks, but I really just want the VAN feature so Citi Double Cash will work fine for that.
Is the Costco VISA retaining the rental insurance? That's really the only one of those features I would use.

If anyone has a better choice for a credit card with the VAN feature please let us know.
Yes.

https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credi ... conversion
But I thought the Costco VISA did not have the VAN feature?

EDIT: Ah, sorry I think you were responding to my question about the auto rental insurance and not "is there a better choice".
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by RickBoglehead »

GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:27 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:07 pm
GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:46 pm

Those look like great perks, but I really just want the VAN feature so Citi Double Cash will work fine for that.
Is the Costco VISA retaining the rental insurance? That's really the only one of those features I would use.

If anyone has a better choice for a credit card with the VAN feature please let us know.
Yes.

https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credi ... conversion
But I thought the Costco VISA did not have the VAN feature?

EDIT: Ah, sorry I think you were responding to my question about the auto rental insurance and not "is there a better choice".
Correct. No virtual with Costco.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Tamales
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:47 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Tamales »

I'll join the chorus of disappointment at BofA ending Shop Safe (and such short notice too).

They don't list a number or website to voice complaints, but there's a slim chance that pointing them to this thread (and people sending a bunch of individual email pleas to reconsider) might get them to reconsider. I just don't know where to send it.

I use Shop Safe for all online purchases, for many years now, and for the same reasons as others have explained. Their "digital wallet" that they point you to as an alternative is NOT equivalent. They can't possibly not know that.

Plus the digital wallet requires you to make payments via smartphone, and I don't have a personal smartphone. I really want to maintain my habit of not using a smartphone for purchases. I don't want the "convenience" of mindless smartphone purchases. I want to have to think about every purchase (and the extra step for shop safe serves that role well, except for the couple times when it was down when I wanted to create a virtual number).

I don't get why the use of Flash and its end-of-life is a show stopper...how much could it possibly cost to port it to something else?
Tamales
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:47 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Tamales »

Citi sure doesn't make it easy to figure out which cards allow Virtual Account Numbers.

from here: https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Produ ... nt-Numbers
it just says available on select cards, and you "can view all Citi cards and their features by visiting Citicards.com"

So I go there, and it lists the available cards, and manually clicking on the disclosures for each of them, and ZERO list Virtual Account Numbers associated with that card.

Then I called, and after being routed to a 3rd person since nobody knew what virtual account numbers were, I finally got some info from a helpful rep (although I have no idea what she was looking at to give me this info):

The double-cash-back card, according to the rep, DOES NOT have VAN. The AAdvantage cards, the Prestige, and the Premier cards have VAN but also have annual fees.
So if you don't want a card with annual fees, Citi's VAN is not an alternative.
But some in this thread imply the double-cash card has VAN so maybe the rep was wrong.

It would be best to see it in writing on their website, but no luck finding anything in the card disclosures that says card xyz has virtual account numbers.

edit: The rep also confirmed that the citi costco card does NOT have VAN.
Last edited by Tamales on Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 5628
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:20 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Tamales wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:52 pm Citi sure doesn't make it easy to figure out which cards allow Virtual Account Numbers.

from here: https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Produ ... nt-Numbers
it just says available on select cards, and you "can view all Citi cards and their features by visiting Citicards.com"

So I go there, and it lists the available cards, and manually clicking on the disclosures for each of them, and ZERO list Virtual Account Numbers associated with that card.

Then I called, and after being routed to a 3rd person since nobody knew what virtual account numbers were, I finally got some info from a helpful rep (although I have no idea what she was looking at to give me this info):

The double-cash-back card, according to the rep, DOES NOT have VAN. The AAdvantage cards, the Prestige, and the Premier cards have VAN but also have annual fees.
So if you don't want a card with annual fees, Citi's VAN is not an alternative.
But some in this thread imply the double-cash card has VAN so maybe the rep was wrong.

It would be best to see it in writing on their website, but no luck finding anything in the card disclosures that says card xyz has virtual account numbers.
Our Citibank Double Cash Mastercard DOES have the VAN feature. It's not terribly convenient for us because the Citibank site/Chrome/Flash combination seems to be incompatible and we have to go to another (Windows) computer to get a VAN on that card. The BofA site DOES work with Chrome (go figure).
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
Tamales
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:47 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Tamales »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:56 pm
Our Citibank Double Cash Mastercard DOES have the VAN feature.
Thanks. I guess a couple things could explain the discrepancy:
The rep was wrong.
or
You have been grandfathered into VAN but new applicants don't get it except with the annual fee cards.
Tamales
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:47 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Tamales »

In this article: https://thecollegeinvestor.com/22836/vi ... dit-cards/
it says "Citibank offers virtual credit cards for almost all of its cardholders."
So I don't know what to believe at this point, except that Citi's website doesn't put it in writing anywhere (not even for the card the CS rep told me have VAN)

Another option that might be of interest to some, mentioned in that article, is: https://jointoken.com/#/
Currently only for phones, but it says a desktop extension for Chrome is "coming soon" (however, that article from May said that as well).

The other option listed in that article from May is Entropay, but going to their website gives this message:
"We're sorry to let you know that Entropay has ceased providing its services on 1 July 2019.
We have terminated our agreement with you according to clause 11 of the Entropay Terms and Conditions. You no longer have access to your account through Entropay.com. Withdrawals can only be made by contacting us by email on support@entropay.com before 1 July 2025."

So that's another thing to keep in mind with these fly-by-night start-ups. They may cease to exist at any time.
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

I called Citi too and they steered me towards the Citi Sapphire Preferred and Citi Sapphire Reserved, %95 and $450 annual fee cards.

I applied for (and got approved for) the Double Cash. We'll see ...

BTW, someone on WalletHub posted that it does have VAN.
OnTrack
Posts: 677
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:16 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by OnTrack »

Count me as another one disappointed in shopsafe being discontinued.
lakpr
Posts: 5939
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:59 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by lakpr »

GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:54 pm I called Citi too and they steered me towards the Citi Sapphire Preferred and Citi Sapphire Reserved, %95 and $450 annual fee cards.
Huh? Sapphire Preferred and Sapphire Reserve are Chase trademarks. Not Citi
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by RickBoglehead »

Tamales wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:52 pm Citi sure doesn't make it easy to figure out which cards allow Virtual Account Numbers.

from here: https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Produ ... nt-Numbers
it just says available on select cards, and you "can view all Citi cards and their features by visiting Citicards.com"

So I go there, and it lists the available cards, and manually clicking on the disclosures for each of them, and ZERO list Virtual Account Numbers associated with that card.

Then I called, and after being routed to a 3rd person since nobody knew what virtual account numbers were, I finally got some info from a helpful rep (although I have no idea what she was looking at to give me this info):

The double-cash-back card, according to the rep, DOES NOT have VAN. The AAdvantage cards, the Prestige, and the Premier cards have VAN but also have annual fees.
So if you don't want a card with annual fees, Citi's VAN is not an alternative.
But some in this thread imply the double-cash card has VAN so maybe the rep was wrong.

It would be best to see it in writing on their website, but no luck finding anything in the card disclosures that says card xyz has virtual account numbers.

edit: The rep also confirmed that the citi costco card does NOT have VAN.
I have Citi DoubleCash, and used a VAN on Friday... So you don't need to see it on their website. :)

Costco Visa does not offer it though.

As to usability, you can use the Citi site to create a number OR download software for Windows and run that on your PC.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
usa
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by usa »

My no-fee Citi Thank you card has this feature! I used BoA ShopSafe at least once a week. Thanks to the original poster for getting this conversation going.
criticalmass
Posts: 1554
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by criticalmass »

I’ve really benefited from Shopsafe too, particularly the protection against rogue repeating charges.

One issue with shopsafe at BoA is that it used a dated Adobe Flash platform. Perhaps they didn’t want to justify the expense of an overhaul to replace adobe flash.

Over the years they did make some changes like allowing you to copy the number to the clipboard, albeit with spaces, then requiring the CVC2 or CVV2 to access a number, and within the last year they began hiding the number until you clicked on it.

So in the past 12 years we’ve lost American Express Private Payments, Discover Virtual Private Numbers (Orbiscom), and Bank of America Shopsafe (Orbiscom). We’ve gained Capital One Enos. If Enos works with the mobile app,I haven’t figured it out yet.
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

lakpr wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:48 am
GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:54 pm I called Citi too and they steered me towards the Citi Sapphire Preferred and Citi Sapphire Reserved, %95 and $450 annual fee cards.
Huh? Sapphire Preferred and Sapphire Reserve are Chase trademarks. Not Citi
Ah, you are correct, I made a few calls and I mixed up my notes. The Citi cards with annual fees are called Premier and Prestige, $95 and $495.
I did get the Citi Double Cash though.
Tamales
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:47 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Tamales »

Hey Bank of America, if you are looking in (and since you don't give a way to communicate directly on this issue), it's not just a rogue group of Bogleheads that are disappointed with this proposed termination of Shop Safe. A quick Google search revealed other online users expressing disappointment, and I'm sure there are others:

https://slickdeals.net/f/13363504-psa-b ... ommentsBox

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/bank-of- ... d-numbers/

https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/co ... that_they/

Notice that many commenters have their BofA credit card because of ShopSafe, and see no reason to continue with the BofA card (and in some cases, with their BofA relationship more broadly), if it's discontinued. Your "digital wallet" alternative is not a substitute. Please work to find a way to continue offering Shop Safe. You've misjudged the way your valued customers use Shop Safe. If, as you say in the termination popup, you're "always looking for ways to improve your digital banking experience," restoring Shop Safe is a way you can do that. Nobody requested termination of Shop Safe.
Tamales
Posts: 1465
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:47 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Tamales »

GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:54 pm I applied for (and got approved for) the Double Cash. We'll see ...
BTW, someone on WalletHub posted that it does have VAN.
Did you authorize a hard credit pull during the application?
Online comments say they don't let you specify a credit limit in the initial application and they tend to be quite low initially. Is that what you found?

Also, since the Double Cash is a MasterCard, I seem to recall that Costco accepts Visa only. So I'd still have to use the BofA Visa as a defacto Costco card.
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

Tamales wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:15 pm
GaryA505 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:54 pm I applied for (and got approved for) the Double Cash. We'll see ...
BTW, someone on WalletHub posted that it does have VAN.
Did you authorize a hard credit pull during the application?
Online comments say they don't let you specify a credit limit in the initial application and they tend to be quite low initially. Is that what you found?

Also, since the Double Cash is a MasterCard, I seem to recall that Costco accepts Visa only. So I'd still have to use the BofA Visa as a defacto Costco card.
I'm sure they checked my credit rating. I don't mind since I'm firmly entrenched in the 800 Club. They gave me a $9000 limit, and I don't really care much about that.

Yes, Costco is VISA only. I don't mind using the Costco VISA there and using the Double Cash MasterCard for the VAN purchases. No big deal.
davidsorensen32
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:57 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by davidsorensen32 »

This truly sucks. Can't we write a letter - lets store it on google drive and share it with BofA or send emails to their head honchos ?
Chip
Posts: 3059
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:57 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Chip »

MikeG62 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.
Another reason is that if the main card is compromised while traveling it can be a pain or impossible to get a new one during the trip. I carry backup cards for just this reason.
MikeG62
Posts: 2960
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by MikeG62 »

Chip wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:58 am
MikeG62 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.
Another reason is that if the main card is compromised while traveling it can be a pain or impossible to get a new one during the trip. I carry backup cards for just this reason.
I too carry an additional card when I travel for this reason. However, I would point out that I’ve had my Chase Sapphire Reserve card compromised twice while traveling out of the country (in both cases it was an internet transaction within the US). Chase was really helpful in that they were able to leave the card open for all charges in the location I was in as long as the card was physically present. They set the card to shut down the day after I returned from the trip and then mailed me a replacement card. I don’t know that other banks would do the same thing, but Chase was super helpful in both these situations.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
student
Posts: 5115
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by student »

MikeG62 wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:35 am
Chip wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:58 am
MikeG62 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.
Another reason is that if the main card is compromised while traveling it can be a pain or impossible to get a new one during the trip. I carry backup cards for just this reason.
I too carry an additional card when I travel for this reason. However, I would point out that I’ve had my Chase Sapphire Reserve card compromised twice while traveling out of the country (in both cases it was an internet transaction within the US). Chase was really helpful in that they were able to leave the card open for all charges in the location I was in as long as the card was physically present. They set the card to shut down the day after I returned from the trip and then mailed me a replacement card. I don’t know that other banks would do the same thing, but Chase was super helpful in both these situations.
Thanks for the story. It is good that Chase was willing to do it. Another plus of the CSR is you get to talk to a human being right away.
Chip
Posts: 3059
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:57 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Chip »

MikeG62 wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:35 am Chase was really helpful in that they were able to leave the card open for all charges in the location I was in as long as the card was physically present. They set the card to shut down the day after I returned from the trip and then mailed me a replacement card. I don’t know that other banks would do the same thing, but Chase was super helpful in both these situations.
That is quite helpful. As a contrast, Capital One shut down a card of mine with no warning whatsoever. Even though I regularly receive text & email notifications of charges asking me if I made them. When I asked their phone support why they didn't text or email, they said that they automatically assume that if the card is compromised then so are my phone and email.

I diplomatically pointed out how STUPID that was but they didn't seem to care. :D

Fortunately I wasn't traveling, because I sorta doubt they'd send a new card anywhere but to my home address. Though I haven't asked that question.
investor4life
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:45 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by investor4life »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:56 pm
Tamales wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:52 pm Citi sure doesn't make it easy to figure out which cards allow Virtual Account Numbers.

from here: https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Produ ... nt-Numbers
it just says available on select cards, and you "can view all Citi cards and their features by visiting Citicards.com"

So I go there, and it lists the available cards, and manually clicking on the disclosures for each of them, and ZERO list Virtual Account Numbers associated with that card.

Then I called, and after being routed to a 3rd person since nobody knew what virtual account numbers were, I finally got some info from a helpful rep (although I have no idea what she was looking at to give me this info):

The double-cash-back card, according to the rep, DOES NOT have VAN. The AAdvantage cards, the Prestige, and the Premier cards have VAN but also have annual fees.
So if you don't want a card with annual fees, Citi's VAN is not an alternative.
But some in this thread imply the double-cash card has VAN so maybe the rep was wrong.

It would be best to see it in writing on their website, but no luck finding anything in the card disclosures that says card xyz has virtual account numbers.
Our Citibank Double Cash Mastercard DOES have the VAN feature. It's not terribly convenient for us because the Citibank site/Chrome/Flash combination seems to be incompatible and we have to go to another (Windows) computer to get a VAN on that card. The BofA site DOES work with Chrome (go figure).
I use VAN with Chrome and have figured out a workaround for the Flash issue. When VAN complains about Flash, click on the lock in the address bar (in the VAN window) and you'll be prompted to allow Flash temporarily. Then it's smooth sailing.

As an aside, one of my pet peeves about Citi was the lack of 2FA. However, I found out recently, by accident, that they do have it now--in fact they use 8-digit codes as opposed to the standard 6-digit ones most others use. As far as I know, this was never advertised by them (or maybe it was and I did not get the memo).

But boy do I hate their incessant pestering about Flex Loans...but I digress.
User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 5628
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:20 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by FrugalInvestor »

investor4life wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:02 pm
FrugalInvestor wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:56 pm
Tamales wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:52 pm Citi sure doesn't make it easy to figure out which cards allow Virtual Account Numbers.

from here: https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Produ ... nt-Numbers
it just says available on select cards, and you "can view all Citi cards and their features by visiting Citicards.com"

So I go there, and it lists the available cards, and manually clicking on the disclosures for each of them, and ZERO list Virtual Account Numbers associated with that card.

Then I called, and after being routed to a 3rd person since nobody knew what virtual account numbers were, I finally got some info from a helpful rep (although I have no idea what she was looking at to give me this info):

The double-cash-back card, according to the rep, DOES NOT have VAN. The AAdvantage cards, the Prestige, and the Premier cards have VAN but also have annual fees.
So if you don't want a card with annual fees, Citi's VAN is not an alternative.
But some in this thread imply the double-cash card has VAN so maybe the rep was wrong.

It would be best to see it in writing on their website, but no luck finding anything in the card disclosures that says card xyz has virtual account numbers.
Our Citibank Double Cash Mastercard DOES have the VAN feature. It's not terribly convenient for us because the Citibank site/Chrome/Flash combination seems to be incompatible and we have to go to another (Windows) computer to get a VAN on that card. The BofA site DOES work with Chrome (go figure).
I use VAN with Chrome and have figured out a workaround for the Flash issue. When VAN complains about Flash, click on the lock in the address bar (in the VAN window) and you'll be prompted to allow Flash temporarily. Then it's smooth sailing.

As an aside, one of my pet peeves about Citi was the lack of 2FA. However, I found out recently, by accident, that they do have it now--in fact they use 8-digit codes as opposed to the standard 6-digit ones most others use. As far as I know, this was never advertised by them (or maybe it was and I did not get the memo).

But boy do I hate their incessant pestering about Flex Loans...but I digress.
Thank you very much for that tip. I had been going to my browser setting and allowing flash but that had become troublesome as well. Your solution works! When the BofA VANs (3% cash back for me) stop working I'll go back to using CitiBank (2% cash back) for that.

My understanding is that Flash is going to go away at some point but it's already lasted longer than it was supposed to. If companies don't implement different software to produce the VANs I fear that at some point no one will be offering them. I hope I'm wrong.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
NickIzaak
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:01 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by NickIzaak »

Also a disappointed Shopsafe user... I've sent a lot of complaints to Bofa about this short notice service cancellation. It's so poorly worded and insulting:

"We remain committed to providing the highest level of security when you transact online with your Bank of America® credit or debit card, and we’re always looking for ways to improve your digital banking experience. On September 20, we are discontinuing our online ShopSafe® service."
...
"Technology has come a long way since we launched ShopSafe. We believe the wide range of security alerts and best-in-class fraud tools we use today, combined with the availability of digital wallets, provide our customers with an enhanced level of protection and a better user experience."

It's such a joke. Anyways, Privacy sounded great until they wanted my Banking login information. That's more dangerous than using my actual card and getting a fraud charge. Alternatively, I've found Token (phone app only). Already switched my Shopsafe cards over to this and it was easy and quick to get up and running. It also just piggybacks off one of your credit cards, so you don't have to compromise your entire banking account privacy and you can control the spending and length. Wish I found this sooner too, its SOOO much easier to generate a card than having to 2FA login to Bank of America and pray Flash actually loads up for Shopsafe.
User avatar
Topic Author
indexfundfan
Posts: 3051
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by indexfundfan »

NickIzaak wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:15 pmAlternatively, I've found Token (phone app only). Already switched my Shopsafe cards over to this and it was easy and quick to get up and running. It also just piggybacks off one of your credit cards, so you don't have to compromise your entire banking account privacy and you can control the spending and length. Wish I found this sooner too, its SOOO much easier to generate a card than having to 2FA login to Bank of America and pray Flash actually loads up for Shopsafe.
This is very interesting. Looks like a perfect solution.

Just wondering how does Token make money? Is Token a viable business?
My signature has been deleted.
Janef
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Janef »

Talked to BofA and they walked me through setting up PAY PAL account so that I don't have to give my credit number on the internet. However, I can't set a dollar limit. I will check out Citigroup to see about getting their card so I could continue with using temporary numbers with a limit.
Cash
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:52 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Cash »

indexfundfan wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:25 am
NickIzaak wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:15 pmAlternatively, I've found Token (phone app only). Already switched my Shopsafe cards over to this and it was easy and quick to get up and running. It also just piggybacks off one of your credit cards, so you don't have to compromise your entire banking account privacy and you can control the spending and length. Wish I found this sooner too, its SOOO much easier to generate a card than having to 2FA login to Bank of America and pray Flash actually loads up for Shopsafe.
This is very interesting. Looks like a perfect solution.

Just wondering how does Token make money? Is Token a viable business?
This is from a CNET article:

The company earns a percentage of the overall transaction cost, the "interchange fee" associated with all credit card transactions

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/use-token-t ... ard-fraud/

It also notes:

For example, suppose you have a card that pays you 2 percent cash back on dining, 3 percent on travel and 1 percent on everything else. When you use Token, you'll likely end up with just 1 percent on everything, because each purchase is recorded with Token as the merchant, and therefore not categorized as "dining" or "travel."
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

Just an update and a hint. I was able to get the Citi Double Cash card, which does have the Virtual Account Number feature (as others have stated). I did initially have a problem getting it working, but after a call to their tech support (1-888-252-8209) it's working fine. I was getting an error message but after they worked on the account that was fixed. I'm not sure what they did, but I did notice that after the call the Double Cash card was shown in my account before the Costco card (the Costco was first before that). As a software engineer, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it wasn't working because the Costco card was listed first and the software would not allow the VAN because the first card listed didn't have that feature. Anyway the Citi VAN looks like a good replacement for ShopSafe, as the VAN allows both a dollar limit and a time limit.
spankasmurf
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:23 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by spankasmurf »

GaryA505 wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:56 pm Just an update and a hint. I was able to get the Citi Double Cash card, which does have the Virtual Account Number feature (as others have stated). I did initially have a problem getting it working, but after a call to their tech support (1-888-252-8209) it's working fine. I was getting an error message but after they worked on the account that was fixed. I'm not sure what they did, but I did notice that after the call the Double Cash card was shown in my account before the Costco card (the Costco was first before that). As a software engineer, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it wasn't working because the Costco card was listed first and the software would not allow the VAN because the first card listed didn't have that feature. Anyway the Citi VAN looks like a good replacement for ShopSafe, as the VAN allows both a dollar limit and a time limit.
Did the same. Looks like my almost 30yr history with MBNA and now BOA will be gathering dust. Bye bye shopsafe, it's been fun keeping those sketchy companies from continuing to charge my credit card when I stopped doing business with them.
User avatar
peter-dg
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by peter-dg »

I called "Citi" to find out which of their cards offer their VAN feature and after an hour bouncing around their agents - about 10 "I'll transfer you"s - I'm still nowhere. Did someone say they have good customer service ?
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

peter-dg wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:20 pm I called "Citi" to find out which of their cards offer their VAN feature and after an hour bouncing around their agents - about 10 "I'll transfer you"s - I'm still nowhere. Did someone say they have good customer service ?
No, their customer service is outsourced offshore and it pretty-much sucks. I don't really care as I won't need to call them much (hopefully never).

Get the Citi Double Cash card. I just got one and the VAN feature works.

Edit: Actually the tech support people I talked to were knowledgeable and fast. 1-888-252-8209
User avatar
peter-dg
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by peter-dg »

Wow, I tried to contact Citi about the Citi Double Cash card and VAN - and after about 2 hours on the phone and 12 different department transfers I still got no information. You have to sing up and them they'll tell you. None of the websites listing all the card features have the words VAN or virtual. Did someone say their customer service is good? I'm finding it horrible.

Finally I got the info from a supervisor and even that took about 15 minutes. Caution: don NOT apply by phone - it took 30 minutes with that supervisor! You can probably do it in 2 minutes on-line. [[I tried to post this before but it never showed up, so sorry if I'm double posting.]]
anoop
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:33 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by anoop »

whodidntante wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:25 am
boomer_techie wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:21 am
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:43 pm BofA ShopSafe going away
BofA says to use a digital wallet, ex. Apple Pay. I'm about to upgrade to an Apple Pay capable phone. However, how the heck do I use something on my phone to pay a random web site from which I'm trying to make a purchase via my computer? :confused
The online vendor needs to support that payment method. Apple Pay is not widely accepted.

Not at all relevant to your question, but maybe helpful for others, is that Samsung Pay will work anywhere you can physically swipe a card. That's because it uses your phone to simulate a card swipe. It has worked everywhere I have tried it, and it really freaks some cashiers out. Some will try to warn you off that they don't accept apple pay or whatever, I just smile and hold my phone to the reader anyway.
For random websites, you would generate a virtual account number on your phone and enter that number on the random website. It would not count as an Apple Pay transaction, so you'd only get 1% cash back.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/15/how-to- ... umber.html
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

peter-dg wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:53 pm Wow, I tried to contact Citi about the Citi Double Cash card and VAN - and after about 2 hours on the phone and 12 different department transfers I still got no information. You have to sing up and them they'll tell you. None of the websites listing all the card features have the words VAN or virtual. Did someone say their customer service is good? I'm finding it horrible.

Finally I got the info from a supervisor and even that took about 15 minutes. Caution: don NOT apply by phone - it took 30 minutes with that supervisor! You can probably do it in 2 minutes on-line. [[I tried to post this before but it never showed up, so sorry if I'm double posting.]]
Yes, I would have mentioned this but it never occurred to me that someone would apply for a credit card over the phone.

I also tried finding the information about their VAN online. It's not there. Don't bother looking.

As I think I mentioned before, I got the Double Cash card (just a few days ago) and VAN works. Some of their annual-fee cards have it too, but who wants to pay an annual fee?
anoop
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:33 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by anoop »

GaryA505 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:20 pm
peter-dg wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:53 pm Wow, I tried to contact Citi about the Citi Double Cash card and VAN - and after about 2 hours on the phone and 12 different department transfers I still got no information. You have to sing up and them they'll tell you. None of the websites listing all the card features have the words VAN or virtual. Did someone say their customer service is good? I'm finding it horrible.

Finally I got the info from a supervisor and even that took about 15 minutes. Caution: don NOT apply by phone - it took 30 minutes with that supervisor! You can probably do it in 2 minutes on-line. [[I tried to post this before but it never showed up, so sorry if I'm double posting.]]
Yes, I would have mentioned this but it never occurred to me that someone would apply for a credit card over the phone.

I also tried finding the information about their VAN online. It's not there. Don't bother looking.

As I think I mentioned before, I got the Double Cash card (just a few days ago) and VAN works. Some of their annual-fee cards have it too, but who wants to pay an annual fee?
The problem with Citi's virtual account number is that it requires flash (which I refuse to use because of security concern) or download their app (they only have one for Windows, not macOS). So it doesn't work for me.
User avatar
roymeo
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: Oakland, CA
Contact:

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by roymeo »

So the thing the bank made to protect itself from false charges (which requires the user to go to extra work to protect the bank) costs more than it is worth to them.

Definitely not worth my time.
The sewer system is a form of welfare state. | -- "Libra", Don DeLillo
User avatar
peter-dg
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by peter-dg »

anoop wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:22 pm
I also tried finding the information about their VAN online. It's not there. Don't bother looking.
Actually the VAN feature is described in https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Produ ... nt-Numbers
but it does not tell yo which of their cards offers that.
TallBoy29er
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by TallBoy29er »

Not that it'll do much, but I like to write executive leadership teams when a significant, customer impactful change takes place, and express my displeasure. Just me shaking my tiny fist at "the man." I found some of the exec emails online, and plan on shooting off a complaint. Occasionally I will get a personal response.

Anne Finucane
Vice Chairman
anne.m.finucane@bankofamerica.com

Chief Executive
Bryan T. Moynihan
brian.t.moynihan@bankofamerica.com
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:27 pm Not that it'll do much, but I like to write executive leadership teams when a significant, customer impactful change takes place, and express my displeasure. Just me shaking my tiny fist at "the man." I found some of the exec emails online, and plan on shooting off a complaint. Occasionally I will get a personal response.

Anne Finucane
Vice Chairman
anne.m.finucane@bankofamerica.com

Chief Executive
Bryan T. Moynihan
brian.t.moynihan@bankofamerica.com
Yeah, that's what I call "rattling cages".
TallBoy29er
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by TallBoy29er »

GaryA505 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:33 pm
TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:27 pm Not that it'll do much, but I like to write executive leadership teams when a significant, customer impactful change takes place, and express my displeasure. Just me shaking my tiny fist at "the man." I found some of the exec emails online, and plan on shooting off a complaint. Occasionally I will get a personal response.

Anne Finucane
Vice Chairman
anne.m.finucane@bankofamerica.com

Chief Executive
Bryan T. Moynihan
brian.t.moynihan@bankofamerica.com
Yeah, that's what I call "rattling cages".
Do something, or do nothing. Futile, maybe. But better than sitting on my @$$. :sharebeer
TallBoy29er
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by TallBoy29er »

TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:36 pm
GaryA505 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:33 pm
TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:27 pm Not that it'll do much, but I like to write executive leadership teams when a significant, customer impactful change takes place, and express my displeasure. Just me shaking my tiny fist at "the man." I found some of the exec emails online, and plan on shooting off a complaint. Occasionally I will get a personal response.

Anne Finucane
Vice Chairman
anne.m.finucane@bankofamerica.com

Chief Executive
Bryan T. Moynihan
brian.t.moynihan@bankofamerica.com
Yeah, that's what I call "rattling cages".
Do something, or do nothing. Futile, maybe. But better than sitting on my @$$. :sharebeer
I just got off the phone with the person that handles executive office escalations after writing an email to them less than an hour ago. We had a good conversation. Obviously no resolution, but one more voice (amongst others she has heard from recently) letting them know of the disappointment. I would hazard a guess that if 50 more folks on this site wrote to the emails above as well, you would also hear back. There's volume in numbers.
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

OK, TallBoy28er inspired me to get off my arse and write an email (not that it will matter).

BTW, CITI Double Cash gives me 2% cash back, better than the 1% BofA paid me without using those stupid "categories".
TallBoy29er
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by TallBoy29er »

GaryA505 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:34 pm OK, TallBoy28er inspired me to get off my arse and write an email (not that it will matter).

BTW, CITI Double Cash gives me 2% cash back, better than the 1% BofA paid me without using those stupid "categories".
Niner. 29er. not 28er. They don't make 28 inch mountain bike wheels. Geez.

But I am proud of you, good sir. Not simply for your sarcasm or your curmudgeonry, both of which I actually admire, but your willingness to act. Now answer that 800 number that calls you in 30 minutes, and tell her (assuming it's the same lady) I said hello. 8-)
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:44 pm
GaryA505 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:34 pm OK, TallBoy28er inspired me to get off my arse and write an email (not that it will matter).

BTW, CITI Double Cash gives me 2% cash back, better than the 1% BofA paid me without using those stupid "categories".
Niner. 29er. not 28er. They don't make 28 inch mountain bike wheels. Geez.

But I am proud of you, good sir. Not simply for your sarcasm or your curmudgeonry, both of which I actually admire, but your willingness to act. Now answer that 800 number that calls you in 30 minutes, and tell her (assuming it's the same lady) I said hello. 8-)
I'm a 26er. :?
User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 5628
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:20 am

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by FrugalInvestor »

GaryA505 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:34 pm OK, TallBoy28er inspired me to get off my arse and write an email (not that it will matter).

BTW, CITI Double Cash gives me 2% cash back, better than the 1% BofA paid me without using those stupid "categories".
This is true but two things concern me.....

First, Citi also uses Flash to generate the card numbers which is being phased out due to security issues (and perhaps other reasons). Citi is going to need to update their system and may decide to cancel the feature as well.

Second, since I specifically use my BofA card for online purchase security I have the 'online shopping' category set to 3% and so get 50% MORE cash back for BofA purchases than using my Citi Double Cash card. I like getting 50% more!
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
GaryA505
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:29 am
GaryA505 wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:34 pm OK, TallBoy28er inspired me to get off my arse and write an email (not that it will matter).

BTW, CITI Double Cash gives me 2% cash back, better than the 1% BofA paid me without using those stupid "categories".
This is true but two things concern me.....

First, Citi also uses Flash to generate the card numbers which is being phased out due to security issues (and perhaps other reasons). Citi is going to need to update their system and may decide to cancel the feature as well.

Second, since I specifically use my BofA card for online purchase security I have the 'online shopping' category set to 3% and so get 50% MORE cash back for BofA purchases than using my Citi Double Cash card. I like getting 50% more!
They have a downloadable app that can be used instead of the flash method. Windows only though.

Thanks for the tip on the online shopping 3%. That would be fine for trusted web sites (Amazon, etc.).
Post Reply