Electric Bicycles

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michaeljc70
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by michaeljc70 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:06 am

I bought a Nakto Green mountain eBike online a few weeks ago. It was $700. It is my first eBike and I didn't want to spend a lot. Enthusiasts will say it is garbage and this and that, but I really like it.It has Shimano shifters and disc brakes. Will it last and be easy to have serviced if I have an issue? I don't know, but I thought the risk was worth it. I really don't like eBikes where the battery looks like a 2 liter bottle strapped on to the frame. If I use this bike a lot I may sell it and upgrade. I live in a big city and the risk of theft is high so that is a factor on spending big $$$$. If you look on YouTube you can see videos of how easy just about any type of lock can be snapped or cut off.

Andyrunner
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by Andyrunner » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:25 am

victorb wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:54 pm
There have been a few times when I have gone out and misjudged the wind. It was considerably more difficult to make it home when the wind picked up and an electric assist would have made all the difference. Another time, I did some unexpected physical work for a friend, during my ride and it was a pain biking home. Those are a few times where an electric assist coming home would have been extremely welcome.
If that is the sole reason, maybe look at changing the gears on your bike first. That might be a much cheaper option.

As for the RAD bikes, I have seen several people commute to work on them. I think the benefit really is for those commuters who wear a suit/dress clothes and don't want to build a sweat. I know one of the cons with an e-bike is that they are heavy compared to a regular bike. That will also mean you will wear out the tires faster.

batpot
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by batpot » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:44 am

I've been considering buying a bottom bracket mounted Bafang motor and modifying my baby hauler.
Hauling ~80 pounds (trailer, plus 2 kids, plus kid stuff) up any kind of grade is brutal, but I've been doing it most weekends all summer.
It definitely limits the places and distance I'm willing to go with them, though.

...and I could then feasibly use it for my 40 mile round trip commute, if I can average >=20mph.

It's still a ~$900 upgrade (48v 500w motor), and I'm not sure it's worth it.
But I'll have a way better riding experience and way better components than paying >~$1500 on a Rad or anything else in that price range.
Last edited by batpot on Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

user542
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by user542 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:46 am

I have an Xtracycle Edgerunner 10E kid-hauler with Bosch mid-drive E-assist. I'm a Boston "Streetcar" Suburb commuter to the downtown core. It's allowed me to skip taking public transit options for my commute and allow me to skip past lots of school traffic for dropping kids off at their respective schools.

I've put almost 6000 miles on it since I purchased it in April 2018 (probably 4x the mileage I would have done if I had a non E-Assist bike). You learn required maintenance -- I've gone through 3 chains, 3 cassettes, a set of rotors, new rear wheel and countless brake pads. For the most part - the E-Assist part is maintenance free. But the speed, weight and how much I ride on it (including winters) makes the wear components go fast. But you learn quick to identify the parts requiring service and I'm building up my tool and component collection. This is built on mountain bike components to sourcing parts is pretty easy.

Buy something where you can have it reliably serviced when things go wrong or you get mystery sounds.

And I use a big lock, and have a supplemental insurance policy on it to ensure I have Uninsured/Underinsured motorist coverage and comprehensive coverage (in case of theft)

Atilla
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by Atilla » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:49 am

Electric bikes let you exercise as much as you wish to. They are also excellent for riders of different fitness levels to be able to ride together at the same comfortable pace.

We have a pair of Magnum electric bikes: https://www.magnumbikes.com/. My wife has the Ui6 and I have the Peak. Different bike styles that fit our needs, but with identical battery and motor so they are compatible riding along together.

Purchased in May 2018 - I have over 4,000 miles clocked with only minor repair/maintenance things I was able to handle myself. Motor and electricals have been flawless.

From what I can tell the Magnum brand enjoys very good reliability at a decent price point.
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MotoTrojan
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by MotoTrojan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:50 am

Bit pricier but these are impressively quick.

https://www.vintageelectricbikes.com/co ... l0QAvD_BwE

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kenyan
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:04 am

user542 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:46 am
I have an Xtracycle Edgerunner 10E kid-hauler with Bosch mid-drive E-assist. I'm a Boston "Streetcar" Suburb commuter to the downtown core. It's allowed me to skip taking public transit options for my commute and allow me to skip past lots of school traffic for dropping kids off at their respective schools.

I've put almost 6000 miles on it since I purchased it in April 2018 (probably 4x the mileage I would have done if I had a non E-Assist bike). You learn required maintenance -- I've gone through 3 chains, 3 cassettes, a set of rotors, new rear wheel and countless brake pads. For the most part - the E-Assist part is maintenance free. But the speed, weight and how much I ride on it (including winters) makes the wear components go fast. But you learn quick to identify the parts requiring service and I'm building up my tool and component collection. This is built on mountain bike components to sourcing parts is pretty easy.

Buy something where you can have it reliably serviced when things go wrong or you get mystery sounds.

And I use a big lock, and have a supplemental insurance policy on it to ensure I have Uninsured/Underinsured motorist coverage and comprehensive coverage (in case of theft)
Probably worth mentioning that the fact that it's a mid-drive does put extra strain on the drive train; that's one advantage that hub motors have. Of course, there are plenty of other advantages to mid-drive (including the lack of complication changing rear flats that I touched on in an earlier post). Agreed overall that you just start to learn a lot of maintenance tasks - at first it can seem a bit complicated but you just learn bit by bit, and the second (and any subsequent) time you have to do something it's much easier.

There are two types of things to maintain - the mechanical portions, which are largely identical to a regular bike and can largely be DIY, and the electrical portions, which for most people will require professional assistance.
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batpot
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by batpot » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:09 am

kenyan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:04 am
user542 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:46 am
I have an Xtracycle Edgerunner 10E kid-hauler with Bosch mid-drive E-assist. I'm a Boston "Streetcar" Suburb commuter to the downtown core. It's allowed me to skip taking public transit options for my commute and allow me to skip past lots of school traffic for dropping kids off at their respective schools.

I've put almost 6000 miles on it since I purchased it in April 2018 (probably 4x the mileage I would have done if I had a non E-Assist bike). You learn required maintenance -- I've gone through 3 chains, 3 cassettes, a set of rotors, new rear wheel and countless brake pads. For the most part - the E-Assist part is maintenance free. But the speed, weight and how much I ride on it (including winters) makes the wear components go fast. But you learn quick to identify the parts requiring service and I'm building up my tool and component collection. This is built on mountain bike components to sourcing parts is pretty easy.

Buy something where you can have it reliably serviced when things go wrong or you get mystery sounds.

And I use a big lock, and have a supplemental insurance policy on it to ensure I have Uninsured/Underinsured motorist coverage and comprehensive coverage (in case of theft)
Probably worth mentioning that the fact that it's a mid-drive does put extra strain on the drive train; that's one advantage that hub motors have. Of course, there are plenty of other advantages to mid-drive (including the lack of complication changing rear flats that I touched on in an earlier post). Agreed overall that you just start to learn a lot of maintenance tasks - at first it can seem a bit complicated but you just learn bit by bit, and the second (and any subsequent) time you have to do something it's much easier.

There are two types of things to maintain - the mechanical portions, which are largely identical to a regular bike and can largely be DIY, and the electrical portions, which for most people will require professional assistance.
However, mid drive are required for most applications, in order to get enough clearance for disc brake calipers.
Also, belt drive eliminates most of the maintenance issues; even better with a Rohloff/Enviolo drive train.

See:
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/embark

dustinst22
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by dustinst22 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:16 am

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:57 am
A Juiced hyperfat or Luna apex is going to be ordered the day after we pay off the mortgage, about 1.5yrs to go.


This is what we did a few years ago, one for my wife as well. Luna bikes have way better performance than just about anything on the market under 5 K. Powerful enough to ride on the beach sand (with a fat bike), up to 35 MPH on the pavement and we're getting 50+ mile range. Pretty much the ultimate beach bike.

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kenyan
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:43 am

batpot wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:09 am

However, mid drive are required for most applications, in order to get enough clearance for disc brake calipers.
Also, belt drive eliminates most of the maintenance issues; even better with a Rohloff/Enviolo drive train.

See:
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/embark
I think you must be referring to kits - plenty of hub drives have disc brakes (including mine). The frame is modified vs. a normal bike. Not throwing any shade at mid drives, though - I'd love to have a belt-driven mid-drive, but they're $$$.
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bltkmt
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bltkmt » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:52 am

My wife and I, both in our mid-50's, each have Pedego Interceptors - they look like beach cruisers. We ride them everywhere and love them. Like someone above mentioned, we would likely not be riding "normal" bikes. We can go farther distances and not worry about hills. We always pedal - throttle does not get used much.

Jeff Albertson
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by Jeff Albertson » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:42 pm

"How an E-Bike Changed My Life
Riding grew harder as I grew older. Then I got an electric bicycle."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/opin ... osition=14
Although they’ve been around since the 1990s, until recently e-bikes were sold mostly in China and in Europe. But now sales are through the roof; in 2017 over a quarter-million of them were sold in this country, a 25 percent jump from the year before.
...
Since I got the e-bike, though, I’ve been riding 15 and 20 miles a day, four or five days a week. It’s been life altering, not just making me fitter, but also raising my spirits, getting me out of the house and back into the mountains.

surfstar
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by surfstar » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:01 pm

I've been riding my Juiced CCS (CrossCurrent S) for about 9 months now.
One flat tire from a construction staple - no other issues. I crank up the assist to "S/sport" for my commute home and keep up with traffic in the 25 mph timed stoplight sections. Don't break a sweat unless it is hot outside and then that's after work, at least.

Their newer version is about what I paid ($1700-1800) and now comes with a 52v battery for even more performance. Pretty good deal, I'd say, if looking for a commuter type bike. I have a single side pannier and a quick release trunk bag on the rack and take lunch/clothes in the removable bag to work with me. The pannier holds things like climbing gym items or mail that I drop off on the ride to work. My car sits unused for days (~10 mi RT commute), which I love.

We're in pretty good shape (backpack, rock climb, etc), but I was never a fan of riding bikes for recreation, unless it was dirt/mtb. An e-bike gets me out of the car way more often, and has been great. Should pay for itself in fuel savings, if the bike lasts just a couple years total (the battery should easily make that based on my use pattern).

:sharebeer

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kenyan
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:16 pm

surfstar wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:01 pm
I've been riding my Juiced CCS (CrossCurrent S) for about 9 months now.
One flat tire from a construction staple - no other issues. I crank up the assist to "S/sport" for my commute home and keep up with traffic in the 25 mph timed stoplight sections. Don't break a sweat unless it is hot outside and then that's after work, at least.

Their newer version is about what I paid ($1700-1800) and now comes with a 52v battery for even more performance. Pretty good deal, I'd say, if looking for a commuter type bike. I have a single side pannier and a quick release trunk bag on the rack and take lunch/clothes in the removable bag to work with me. The pannier holds things like climbing gym items or mail that I drop off on the ride to work. My car sits unused for days (~10 mi RT commute), which I love.

We're in pretty good shape (backpack, rock climb, etc), but I was never a fan of riding bikes for recreation, unless it was dirt/mtb. An e-bike gets me out of the car way more often, and has been great. Should pay for itself in fuel savings, if the bike lasts just a couple years total (the battery should easily make that based on my use pattern).

:sharebeer
Same bike, but have had it a bit longer (18 months now) :sharebeer. I prefer to ride on setting 1 assist myself and actually do aim to work up a sweat, except heading in to work when I use setting 2 - it's generally cool and dark out at that time, which helps. I use dual panniers for commuting and lighter errands, and then will hook up a trailer (Burley Travoy) so I can get the week's groceries, perhaps adding a backpack as well for big trips.

I've been going a month or more at times without ever starting the car - it's great! I'm several hundred miles past the point where the bike is 'paid for' using the IRS mileage rate, though to be fair I've had to buy some other things for the bike (maintenance items, panniers, locks, etc). For those who aren't familiar, the electricity use of these bikes is so low to almost be inconsequential from a cost standpoint - a fraction of a cent per mile, especially if you're doing some pedaling. Still, the bike is going strong. I did have one issue with the motor that Juiced ended up replacing under warranty.
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batpot
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by batpot » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:20 pm

kenyan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:43 am
batpot wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:09 am

However, mid drive are required for most applications, in order to get enough clearance for disc brake calipers.
Also, belt drive eliminates most of the maintenance issues; even better with a Rohloff/Enviolo drive train.

See:
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/embark
I think you must be referring to kits - plenty of hub drives have disc brakes (including mine). The frame is modified vs. a normal bike. Not throwing any shade at mid drives, though - I'd love to have a belt-driven mid-drive, but they're $$$.
Fair point; and yes, I've been focusing on kits for myself. If I do ever end up with a belt driven Rohloff, it probably won't be an e-bike.

mugworts
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by mugworts » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:33 pm

I have a Haibike Trekking model as well. I use to bike an average of 7,000 miles a year (for 20 years) recreationally on a traditional bike. But after buying an ebike, it has really made commuting and errands so much fun, I rarely bike recreationally and rarely use a car either these days. My only regret was waiting so long to get one. Every day I just grin and and amazed how fun they are.
I looked at countless bikes, each with advantages and disadvantages, but in the end, I just held my breath and bought one, and have never looked back.

bloom2708
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm

I hope "they" don't invent eRunning gear. Strap on some bionic legs and go for an e-Run. You can run at 20 mph with the effort of sitting on the couch. :(

I'm 48, my commute is 3.5 miles each way. I enjoy pedaling too much. I think the target audience is someone who is unable or just doesn't ride bike without the assist factor.

I have a hard time seeing a biker who enjoys pedaling swapping to an e-bike when they don't have to. But I'm proven wrong daily.

We are closer to the vision of the movie Wall-E where people sit in hover cars all day with no effort and cannot walk anymore. :mrgreen:

Funny how most won't pay $300 for a pedal bike, but $3,000 or $4,000 for an e-bike is well within reason. Good thread and lots to chew on.
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kenyan
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:31 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm

We are closer to the vision of the movie Wall-E where people sit in hover cars all day with no effort and cannot walk anymore. :mrgreen:
Do you really think an e-bike puts us closer to that? I think the personal automobile is by far the biggest problem shoving us in that direction. The e-bike is in the direction of goodness. My feeling from your comment is that you haven't actually tried an e-bike, though I apologize if I'm wrong. I pedal 100% of the time (ok, perhaps 99%) I'm using propulsion on my e-bike, and I enjoy doing so. With an e-bike, you pedal and feel like superman.
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stoptothink
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by stoptothink » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:41 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm
I think the target audience is someone who is unable or just doesn't ride bike without the assist factor.

I have a hard time seeing a biker who enjoys pedaling swapping to an e-bike when they don't have to. But I'm proven wrong daily.
I am a former pretty high-level triathlete and even now I fairly regularly ride pulling a bike trailer with my son in it 30+ miles all over very hilly Utah County. I want one bad. The only friend I know who has an e-bike is a cardio monster ultra-marathoner and obstacle course racer. It's a grocery-getter/errand runner more than anything else.

I pretty much always take my bike (with trailer) to do any errands within ~10 miles, but anything further than that sometimes requires a little too much time and planning (and energy I might not have that specific day) and some places you don't necessarily want to show up all sweaty.

bloom2708
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:43 pm

kenyan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:31 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm

We are closer to the vision of the movie Wall-E where people sit in hover cars all day with no effort and cannot walk anymore. :mrgreen:
Do you really think an e-bike puts us closer to that? I think the personal automobile is by far the biggest problem shoving us in that direction. The e-bike is in the direction of goodness. My feeling from your comment is that you haven't actually tried an e-bike, though I apologize if I'm wrong. I pedal 100% of the time (ok, perhaps 99%) I'm using propulsion on my e-bike, and I enjoy doing so. With an e-bike, you pedal and feel like superman.
If you were a non-biker and the e-bike got you biking, super. I tried to call out that age or other factors would come into play. If you biked (without power) and just decided the e-bike was more fun, then we are headed in a different direction.
"We are not here to agree with you; we are here to provoke thoughtfulness." Unknown Boglehead

bloom2708
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:19 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:41 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm
I think the target audience is someone who is unable or just doesn't ride bike without the assist factor.

I have a hard time seeing a biker who enjoys pedaling swapping to an e-bike when they don't have to. But I'm proven wrong daily.
I am a former pretty high-level triathlete and even now I fairly regularly ride pulling a bike trailer with my son in it 30+ miles all over very hilly Utah County. I want one bad. The only friend I know who has an e-bike is a cardio monster ultra-marathoner and obstacle course racer. It's a grocery-getter/errand runner more than anything else.

I pretty much always take my bike (with trailer) to do any errands within ~10 miles, but anything further than that sometimes requires a little too much time and planning (and energy I might not have that specific day) and some places you don't necessarily want to show up all sweaty.
If good e-bikes were $250 would you have one? I probably would too. Your use case (kid hauler, grocery getter) is a good one. Do you really have to go 30 miles (bike or car) to do errands? The cost/benefit is still out of whack because people don't likely sell their car. I wouldn't sell my pedal bikes (Brompton and Speciaized Fatboy) to get an e-bike. Maybe price/competition will increase like TVs. Maybe the utility will demand the prices stay high. Not sure.
"We are not here to agree with you; we are here to provoke thoughtfulness." Unknown Boglehead

stoptothink
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by stoptothink » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:39 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:19 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:41 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm
I think the target audience is someone who is unable or just doesn't ride bike without the assist factor.

I have a hard time seeing a biker who enjoys pedaling swapping to an e-bike when they don't have to. But I'm proven wrong daily.
I am a former pretty high-level triathlete and even now I fairly regularly ride pulling a bike trailer with my son in it 30+ miles all over very hilly Utah County. I want one bad. The only friend I know who has an e-bike is a cardio monster ultra-marathoner and obstacle course racer. It's a grocery-getter/errand runner more than anything else.

I pretty much always take my bike (with trailer) to do any errands within ~10 miles, but anything further than that sometimes requires a little too much time and planning (and energy I might not have that specific day) and some places you don't necessarily want to show up all sweaty.
If good e-bikes were $250 would you have one? I probably would too. Your use case (kid hauler, grocery getter) is a good one. Do you really have to go 30 miles (bike or car) to do errands? The cost/benefit is still out of whack because people don't likely sell their car. I wouldn't sell my pedal bikes (Brompton and Speciaized Fatboy) to get an e-bike. Maybe price/competition will increase like TVs. Maybe the utility will demand the prices stay high. Not sure.
30 miles, no, but 10+ all the time. We're not most people, we don't have an extra car to sell. We're a two professional household who shares a single car (by choice, I have a walking commute), an e-bike means I am riding when I take my son to wrestling practice (about ~8 miles, with a huge hill), when I take my daughter to gymnastics (~10 miles), or even when we visit grandmas (pretty much every weekend, both are 15-20 miles away). At this point, those regular activities are exclusively by car because I don't have the energy after a long day of work (and mid-day training). We've shared a car for going on 4yrs and it usually works out well, but it is becoming more complicated as the kids get older and having more activities.

bloom2708
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:44 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:39 pm
30 miles, no, but 10+ all the time. We're not most people, we don't have an extra car to sell. We're a two professional household who shares a single car (by choice, I have a walking commute), an e-bike means I am riding when I take my son to wrestling practice (about ~8 miles, with a huge hill), when I take my daughter to gymnastics (~10 miles), or even when we visit grandmas (pretty much every weekend, both are 15-20 miles away). At this point, those regular activities are exclusively by car because I don't have the energy after a long day of work (and mid-day training). We've shared a car for going on 4yrs and it usually works out well, but it is becoming more complicated as the kids get older and having more activities.
You are already bypassing the proverbial second car, so you can certainly justify an e-bike. At some point I'd like my car to be worth less than my bikes. Not there yet due to 3 kids and duties required. You also likely have much better year-round weather. We live where there is some of the worst winters and longest in the US. Doh. Depending on snowfall and accumulation and temps not getting above -10 to -15F for highs, that I can't bike to work for some periods. If I owned an e-bike and left it outside with a high of -10 at work, I don't know what that would mean for the batteries.
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dustinst22
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by dustinst22 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:47 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:43 pm

If you were a non-biker and the e-bike got you biking, super. I tried to call out that age or other factors would come into play. If you biked (without power) and just decided the e-bike was more fun, then we are headed in a different direction.
Disagree. For the active biker, the e-bike simply gives them more range to be able to bike.

KlangFool
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by KlangFool » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:50 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:44 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:39 pm
30 miles, no, but 10+ all the time. We're not most people, we don't have an extra car to sell. We're a two professional household who shares a single car (by choice, I have a walking commute), an e-bike means I am riding when I take my son to wrestling practice (about ~8 miles, with a huge hill), when I take my daughter to gymnastics (~10 miles), or even when we visit grandmas (pretty much every weekend, both are 15-20 miles away). At this point, those regular activities are exclusively by car because I don't have the energy after a long day of work (and mid-day training). We've shared a car for going on 4yrs and it usually works out well, but it is becoming more complicated as the kids get older and having more activities.
You are already bypassing the proverbial second car, so you can certainly justify an e-bike. At some point I'd like my car to be worth less than my bikes. Not there yet due to 3 kids and duties required. You also likely have much better year-round weather. We live where there is some of the worst winters and longest in the US. Doh. Depending on snowfall and accumulation and temps not getting above -10 to -15F for highs, that I can't bike to work for some periods. If I owned an e-bike and left it outside with a high of -10 at work, I don't know what that would mean for the batteries.
bloom2708,

For most e-bike, the battery is removable. You do not have to leave it outside.

KlangFool

bloom2708
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:51 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:47 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:43 pm

If you were a non-biker and the e-bike got you biking, super. I tried to call out that age or other factors would come into play. If you biked (without power) and just decided the e-bike was more fun, then we are headed in a different direction.
Disagree. For the active biker, the e-bike simply gives them more range to be able to bike.
Agree to disagree. Go father with less effort. Not the same.

Isn't "the effort" part of the puzzle? Maintaining fitness. If all sidewalks were moving walkways, going for walks wouldn't have the same meaning. OK, your legs are moving with the e-bike. Some more than others based on the type of e-assist.

When I bike to work, I don't want car driving time to equal bike driving time. I leave earlier (planning). Sometimes wind makes it take longer.
Last edited by bloom2708 on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:50 pm
bloom2708,

For most e-bike, the battery is removable. You do not have to leave it outside.

KlangFool
Yes, good point. Some of the latest designs are nice. Lockable/removable batteries. Winter proof.
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by stoptothink » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:06 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:44 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:39 pm
30 miles, no, but 10+ all the time. We're not most people, we don't have an extra car to sell. We're a two professional household who shares a single car (by choice, I have a walking commute), an e-bike means I am riding when I take my son to wrestling practice (about ~8 miles, with a huge hill), when I take my daughter to gymnastics (~10 miles), or even when we visit grandmas (pretty much every weekend, both are 15-20 miles away). At this point, those regular activities are exclusively by car because I don't have the energy after a long day of work (and mid-day training). We've shared a car for going on 4yrs and it usually works out well, but it is becoming more complicated as the kids get older and having more activities.
You are already bypassing the proverbial second car, so you can certainly justify an e-bike. At some point I'd like my car to be worth less than my bikes. Not there yet due to 3 kids and duties required. You also likely have much better year-round weather. We live where there is some of the worst winters and longest in the US. Doh. Depending on snowfall and accumulation and temps not getting above -10 to -15F for highs, that I can't bike to work for some periods. If I owned an e-bike and left it outside with a high of -10 at work, I don't know what that would mean for the batteries.
I also live in an area where it snows up to 6 months (or more a year). Don't know if you've ever ridden a fat bike with aggressive tires, but they can go through anything and are fantastic in snow. My friend (who works at my same employer) commutes every single day, rain/snow/shine with his e-assist fat bike.

No doubt an e-assist bike is not for a lot of people, but nobody here is saying it is. It may not be a good option for you, but it is for many of us.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:13 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:06 pm
I also live in an area where it snows up to 6 months (or more a year). Don't know if you've ever ridden a fat bike with aggressive tires, but they can go through anything and are fantastic in snow. My friend (who works at my same employer) commutes every single day, rain/snow/shine with his e-assist fat bike.

No doubt an e-assist bike is not for a lot of people, but nobody here is saying it is. It may not be a good option for you, but it is for many of us.
I have a L-Assist (Leg Assist) 2014 Specialized Fatboy fat bike. Love it. Fenders, lights, rear rack, panniers. I ride unless the high is below zero OR the sidewalks are impassable or maybe the wind is > 25 mph and cold temps. If we get concurrent large snowfalls, there are times when the sidewalks/bike paths are out of commission for periods of days. They just can't keep them plowed out. Ususally this occurs in late December through February. Some winters we just don't get much snow/cold and it works out. Others are not good. I am hoping this is a global warming winter that is warmer-ish.

I wasn't trying to be controversial. If healthy 20,30,40,50 year old people who like to bike are putting their non-ebikes on the curb to switch to $2k to $5k e-bikes, then I don't think e-bikes are accomplishing what they think. Hopefully that is the minority and e-bikes are capturing non-bikers and people who can't/won't/don't bike. If that is controversial, well then I accept that.
Last edited by bloom2708 on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by stoptothink » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:19 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:13 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:06 pm
I also live in an area where it snows up to 6 months (or more a year). Don't know if you've ever ridden a fat bike with aggressive tires, but they can go through anything and are fantastic in snow. My friend (who works at my same employer) commutes every single day, rain/snow/shine with his e-assist fat bike.

No doubt an e-assist bike is not for a lot of people, but nobody here is saying it is. It may not be a good option for you, but it is for many of us.
I have a L-Assist (Leg Assist) 2014 Specialized Fatboy fat bike. Love it. Fenders, lights, rear rack, panniers. I ride unless the high is below zero OR the sidewalks are impassable or maybe the wind is > 25 mph and cold temps. If we get concurrent large snowfalls, there are times when the sidewalks/bike paths are out of commission for periods of days. They just can't keep them plowed out. Ususally this occurs in late December through February. Some winters we just don't get much snow/cold and it works out. Others are not good. I am hoping this is a global warming winter that is warmer-ish.
So what exactly are you arguing, that an e-assist bike isn't a viable mode of transportation for you when you wouldn't be going outside anyway?

I'm confused as to what point you are trying to make. It may not be a good option for you, so don't get one. That doesn't mean it isn't a good option for a lot of us.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:21 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:19 pm
So what exactly are you arguing, that an e-assist bike isn't a viable mode of transportation for you when you wouldn't be going outside anyway?

I'm confused as to what point you are trying to make. It may not be a good option for you, so don't get one. That doesn't mean it isn't a good option for a lot of us.
I wasn't trying to be controversial. If healthy 20,30,40,50 year old people who like to bike are putting their non-ebikes on the curb to switch to $2k to $5k e-bikes, then I don't think e-bikes are accomplishing what they think. Hopefully that is the minority and e-bikes are capturing non-bikers and people who can't/won't/don't bike. Or keeping and riding their pedal bikes and using the e-bikes for certain use cases. If that is controversial, well then I accept that.
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dustinst22
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by dustinst22 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:22 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:51 pm


Agree to disagree. Go father with less effort. Not the same.
With using pedal assist you can put in the same effort but faster.

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kenyan
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:22 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:19 pm

If good e-bikes were $250 would you have one? I probably would too. Your use case (kid hauler, grocery getter) is a good one. Do you really have to go 30 miles (bike or car) to do errands? The cost/benefit is still out of whack because people don't likely sell their car. I wouldn't sell my pedal bikes (Brompton and Speciaized Fatboy) to get an e-bike. Maybe price/competition will increase like TVs. Maybe the utility will demand the prices stay high. Not sure.
Good bikes aren't $250, either, and either of the bikes you own could purchase a good e-bike for the same price. As you'd expect, with battery technology driving the price more than anything else, e-bikes have been dropping in price even over the short time I've been paying attention (or in many cases you just get more for your money). The tariffs did hurt a bit, but they've overcome that.

I think you've got a flawed vision of what people do with an e-bike - just replace whatever bike riding they were doing, now with less effort. I really don't think that is at all common. You also seem to believe that people aren't getting much exercise on them. For many people - and initial studies are bearing this out - they're an enabler of more riding - longer, farther, faster for the same amount of effort. Still getting the exercise, but over longer distances.

Maybe you think people who ride like me are an outlier, but I'll explain how I ride as a data point to consider - in most cases, I don't stop pedaling harder just because I'm going faster than I would on a regular bike - I keep pedaling harder until I reach a point where I can maintain the effort consistently, similarly to how I would on a non-assist bike. I just get to be rewarded with quicker acceleration and going ~10 mph faster than I would without the motor.

Am I getting the same level of exercise I would for a given distance on a bike? No, of course not. Am I getting the same level of exercise I would for a given time riding? Ah, with that consideration it's much closer, but I'm sure the the e-bike takes the edge off of acceleration and hills. I do have a fitness/heart rate tracker so I'm not just making the perceived exertion up.

As I mentioned above, my cost/benefit is already positive with the e-bike, and I've hopefully got many thousands of miles left on this puppy.
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kenyan
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:23 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:22 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:51 pm


Agree to disagree. Go father with less effort. Not the same.
With using pedal assist you can put in the same effort but faster.
Precisely. I don't stop working hard at pedaling just because I'm going faster than I 'deserve'. I enjoy the speed and pedal just as hard as I would without assist, some situations (hills) excepted.
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by MichCPA » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:24 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:57 pm
I just can’t do an ebike.

It would take away from real pedal biking.

They go fast and extend your range. I think it take 90% of the exercise away.

Rad Power are good bikes. I would research and ride a bunch of options.
Most of them allow you to adjust the assist level. Honestly, as a regular (non e) cyclist this seems like the ideal use. You can turn up the assist if you want to commute to work so you don't need a shower and you can still get a good workout on the way back. Should you use it in a race? He** no that's cheating, but for communing/exercise, go for it.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by MichCPA » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:27 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:21 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:19 pm
So what exactly are you arguing, that an e-assist bike isn't a viable mode of transportation for you when you wouldn't be going outside anyway?

I'm confused as to what point you are trying to make. It may not be a good option for you, so don't get one. That doesn't mean it isn't a good option for a lot of us.
I wasn't trying to be controversial. If healthy 20,30,40,50 year old people who like to bike are putting their non-ebikes on the curb to switch to $2k to $5k e-bikes, then I don't think e-bikes are accomplishing what they think. Hopefully that is the minority and e-bikes are capturing non-bikers and people who can't/won't/don't bike. Or keeping and riding their pedal bikes and using the e-bikes for certain use cases. If that is controversial, well then I accept that.
What about commuters who don't want/can't shower at work or change clothes? Its a cost effective replacement or supplement for a car in urban/ suburban areas.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:28 pm

MichCPA wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:24 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:57 pm
I just can’t do an ebike.

It would take away from real pedal biking.

They go fast and extend your range. I think it take 90% of the exercise away.

Rad Power are good bikes. I would research and ride a bunch of options.
Most of them allow you to adjust the assist level. Honestly, as a regular (non e) cyclist this seems like the ideal use. You can turn up the assist if you want to commute to work so you don't need a shower and you can still get a good workout on the way back. Should you use it in a race? He** no that's cheating, but for communing/exercise, go for it.
I am 48. I have my eye on an e-bike when I'm 68. :mrgreen:

I get around having to shower on my commute (3.5 miles) by just going 11-12mph. The "no sweat" speed for me. I see e-bikes all over. They routinely pass me going 25+. If they beat me to work by 10 minutes, they had to work 10 minutes longer. 8-)
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:36 pm

MichCPA wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:27 pm
What about commuters who don't want/can't shower at work or change clothes? Its a cost effective replacement or supplement for a car in urban/ suburban areas.
That seems like a very reasonable scenario for an e-bike. If the effort is truly the same as many are arguing, that might imply they would still get sweaty, but just get to work faster. The ebikes I see are using them more on the scooter mode and going 20-25+ mph. I have solved getting sweaty by not having a backpack on my back and going slower/leaving earlier so I can go slower. But, that doesn't work in all scenarios.
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by lightheir » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:48 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:21 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:19 pm
So what exactly are you arguing, that an e-assist bike isn't a viable mode of transportation for you when you wouldn't be going outside anyway?

I'm confused as to what point you are trying to make. It may not be a good option for you, so don't get one. That doesn't mean it isn't a good option for a lot of us.
I wasn't trying to be controversial. If healthy 20,30,40,50 year old people who like to bike are putting their non-ebikes on the curb to switch to $2k to $5k e-bikes, then I don't think e-bikes are accomplishing what they think. Hopefully that is the minority and e-bikes are capturing non-bikers and people who can't/won't/don't bike. Or keeping and riding their pedal bikes and using the e-bikes for certain use cases. If that is controversial, well then I accept that.
I def disagree with that concept of people not getting as much out of cycling due to e-bikes because they should go non-motorized.

I'm a triathlete, so I train pretty hard on the bike and would be considered pretty strong compared to any nonracing cyclist (the typical bike and def e-bike crowd). I can average 22+mph for 56 miles on a nonflat course and still be able to run 7min/mile for a half marathon right after that (don't forget the swim before the bike as well!)

Even for me, anything more than a trivially small hill requires a surprisingly robust power effort. I have a powermeter, and I'd say that anything north of 200 watts for more than 1 minute would be considered challenging for most nonracing cyclists, yet that is the type of effort I encounter on nearly every small climb or roller in my area. Heck, the 2 blocks right outside my house aren't even what someone would call steep, but it takes 250+ watts just to ride at faster than jogging pace on it. For truly steep climbs, you're talking 300+ watts for over a minute, which would be a near-death experience for most nonracing occasional cyclists!

My message here is that hills are HARD on bikes. It doesn't have to be a giant like Mt Everest for it to be hard - even a few bunches of smallish rollers can wipe out the energy of even a healthy 25 year old who rarely bikes. E-bikes are an ideal solution for this 'hills are too hard' reality for most non-regular cyclists. If you're one of the diehards though that rides regularly for fitness and/or commuting, then more power to you and tackle those hills without the e-bike assist!

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by MichCPA » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:50 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:28 pm

I am 48. I have my eye on an e-bike when I'm 68. :mrgreen:

I get around having to shower on my commute (3.5 miles) by just going 11-12mph. The "no sweat" speed for me. I see e-bikes all over. They routinely pass me going 25+. If they beat me to work by 10 minutes, they had to work 10 minutes longer. 8-)
So that's the difference. I have a 10 mile commute and typically am at 15.5 to 16 mph on a hybrid and have no shower. Slowing down that much would cost me 20 minutes. Right now I alternate driving vs riding so I always have fresh clothes at work. I could also envision buying an e-bike for my fiancee to allow her to keep up with me on my roadie or just adding some distance because she has an old hip injury that keeps us to about 10 miles together.

I totally get that some are obnoxious and I feel like fighting them when they pass me and act like I am out of shape and slow, but they do have a place.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by Osprey » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:52 pm

I bought an e-bicycle, pedal assist type in June when I wanted to start bicycling with my husband who has biked for 20+ years and goes faster and further distances. Delighted with my bike, we’ve had lots of fun and I mostly bicycle without using the motor but do use it about 10% of the time and it makes me more comfortable going further distances.

I got a Bianchi Manhattan for a great price as it was last years model and discontinued. I wanted a lighter bike than thetreks I tested and this met that criteria and was substantially cheaper.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by TheMadEph » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:05 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:41 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm
I think the target audience is someone who is unable or just doesn't ride bike without the assist factor.

I have a hard time seeing a biker who enjoys pedaling swapping to an e-bike when they don't have to. But I'm proven wrong daily.
I am a former pretty high-level triathlete and even now I fairly regularly ride pulling a bike trailer with my son in it 30+ miles all over very hilly Utah County. I want one bad. The only friend I know who has an e-bike is a cardio monster ultra-marathoner and obstacle course racer. It's a grocery-getter/errand runner more than anything else.

I pretty much always take my bike (with trailer) to do any errands within ~10 miles, but anything further than that sometimes requires a little too much time and planning (and energy I might not have that specific day) and some places you don't necessarily want to show up all sweaty.
Exactly, I run ultras and ride my normal commuter bike all over the place. But we got a e-bike (cargo bike) for errands and groceries and dog shuttling. Ebikes are good for people who are unable to ride a bike, true. But there is a HUGE opportunity for people to replace cars with ebikes. We got a Packster 60 from Riese and Muller and the bike is amazing. I take the dog into town, i pick up pizza and beer, i have gone to hardware store and brought back two bags of mulch. Once the mindset is changed, the e-bikes are life-changers.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by rj49 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:08 pm

I have two electric bikes and have had others, so I can correct a lot of the misconceptions I read here. First of all, some bikes are rated Class 3, meaning the electric assist can get up to 28 mph, plus the human input. I had one and always blasted by racer types and flew up hills. Hills are the huge benefit of an electric bike, since they broaden the range of places where you'll ride, allow you to conserve energy and avoid excessive stress, and they make biking fun.

There are bikes where you can turn up the pedal assist and use little effort, or even use a throttle, but most of the time you're going to put in some effort, and if you want to maximize battery life for longer rides, it helps to keep a balance of human and electric power input. I always easily close the 30 minutes of my Apple Watch exercise ring and get my heart rate into an exercise zone. Again, it's having help on the hills that keeps my heart rate out of a danger zone.

If you want tons of videos and written reviews, check out electricbikereview, which gives recommendations by type of bike, speed, and everything else, along with battery/range/weight specs that dealer sites don't always provide. There are also message boards for people with issues and questions and sharing their love of their bikes.

Electric bikes are really taking off, particularly for older rides and especially couples, since it allows them to keep up with each other. My city has an REI and a few other bike shops that have sold e-bikes, but now a bigger Seattle store opened an outlet here, so I see people on ebikes every day, including parents carting children on electric cargo bikes. You can also rent them in places like Seattle through Lime and other apps, and they're much safer and useful than the stupid scooters. I call them a bargain-basement Tesla, even the higher-end models, because you get the environmental benefits of an electric car without the cost, and they also add fun and health benefits, as well as potential relationship benefits of couples exploration and exercise.

The drawbacks are that the bike is going to be heavier, the battery usually lasts for 700 or so charges, I get range anxiety when I go on longer rides and have run out of juice a few times and have struggled home (although pedaling a 60-lb bike with 7 gears is a really good workout). Some jerks ride too fast on public or mountain bike trails on ebikes, some snobby lycra-clad racers with their $5000 custom-built road bikes look down on e-bikes. I was once one of them, though, doing cross-state rides, up and over mountain passes, hunched over a super-light carbon bike in a lemming-like paceline, but then I decided I'd ride for fun instead of distance or speed, so I got into ebikes (although I dusted off my road bike this summer, and after a 60-pound bike, I really flew on my 18-pound one). I'm able to do shopping, commutes, dirt-path rides, excursions out into farmland and around lakes, and I can get downtown and park my bike in 5 minutes, whereas it would take 15 in a car, if I include driving, looking for parking, hunting for change or trying to use a parking app, and then walking to where I need to go.

If you want an alternative to Rad bikes, look at Ariel bikes, which have much more torque and battery capacity and potential range than Rad and other cheaper bikes, as well as hydraulic brakes (very important with a heavier bike), and they have some really nice-looking bikes (I'm looking at their M-class bike, only 49 lbs). The default settings on the bikes can also be changed to get up to 28 mph, too. They only sell online, like Rad, and take Amazon pay, so if you have 5-10% cashback through an Amazon or Discover card it can save even more (nice videos of their bikes on electricbikereview.com as well).

If you're mechanically-minded, you can hook up an e-bike conversion kit to a regular bike, which can be really built for speed, although some could violate local laws on motor wattage. I've seen conversion bikes sold on Craigslist, so that's one way to check out an e-bike, besides a shop.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by ThreeBears » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:59 pm

To each their own, but for me the choice is clear.

Juiced Bike CrossCurrent S2.

https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s2

Other bikes do not even come close, on a pure specs and cost basis.

Mine should ship in late October ... in time for winter, i guess.

Given that Juiced Bikes is an option, I don't know why people buy Rad Bikes. But, some people don't care about speed and power, so there's a market for everyone.

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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:33 pm

TheMadEph wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:05 pm
Once the mindset is changed, the e-bikes are life-changers.
Indeed. The most common mistake is that people see them as recreational devices for lazy people. I see them more as hyper-efficient (10-20 times more efficient than an electric car) and versatile transportation devices that also happen to give you a lot of exercise, time outdoors, and be loads of fun. Build your life around them and you'll be wondering why everyone else is wasting their lives sitting in traffic in their car.
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by kenyan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:37 pm

ThreeBears wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:59 pm
To each their own, but for me the choice is clear.

Juiced Bike CrossCurrent S2.

https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s2

Other bikes do not even come close, on a pure specs and cost basis.

Mine should ship in late October ... in time for winter, i guess.

Given that Juiced Bikes is an option, I don't know why people buy Rad Bikes. But, some people don't care about speed and power, so there's a market for everyone.
Juiced suffers from a perception of mediocre support. I have one myself (as I mentioned upthread) and agree that there's no better bang-for-your-buck if you want a high-performance bike, outside of kits. My one support experience was...mixed, but in the end they did right by me. Hopefully they continue to improve in that area.
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Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by alfaspider » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:35 pm

kenyan wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:35 am
IMO wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:31 am

You have a link to that study? I'm a bit skeptical on that and would like to look at the data.

Finally did try an ebike a couple weeks ago. I'm looking into getting a conversion kit for an older bike (with much better components than many ebikes out there) because I'd like to get one for a means to run more errands sans car. Basically the things are like a modern electric version to the old mopeds (not scooters and some younger folk will need to google that). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped Not into the off road trail thing personally with these and I'm sure hikers/equestrians are really going to like these things being allowed on the trails. However I'd be one of "those people" who use it in a paved bike path/lane because I'm not into riding bikes on roads with cars and all the risks that come with that.
Here you go:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 821930017X

An article discussing it:
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a2881966 ... els-study/

I get way more exercise on my e-bike than I did on my regular bike, because I didn't ride it. I'd wager that I get more exercise on my e-bike than most most cyclists, since they might grab a recreational ride on the weekend and then drive their car all week; I ride the e-bike for all of it.

I'm not sold on e-bikes offroad or on single-track. Bike paths I don't find to be too bad, and don't think I'm too obnoxious on (could be wrong) because I keep my speed down. I have little problem riding on roads with cars (some roads excepted) - the e-bike makes it much easier to accelerate with and keep up with traffic.
The amount of exercise you get probably depends a lot on the environment. If I were on the rural roads where I ride on the weekends, I can see my distance going up and effort remaining the same or greater. I might average 18mph on the road bike, and 28mph on a speedy e-bike. But 28mph on a bike is only relatively safe if you are on a smooth obstruction free road without cross traffic. I can't ride 28mph on the local bike paths without being a menace to other users, but it's not fast enough to keep me from being a rolling road block to car traffic on suburban roads without shoulders.

Also, the study that is cited seems to indicate that the difference may just be that people are attempting longer rides because of the e-bike. Someone might not have time to bike commute 10 miles with out the e-assist allowing them to arrive more quickly. But if the same commute is done on an e-bike and traditional, the study isn't showing that the e-bike would result in more exercise.

Arlington2019
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:29 pm
Location: Snohomish County, Washington, USA

Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by Arlington2019 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:07 pm

This is an interesting and timely thread for me. I am 60 years old, have been a recreational bicyclist for 52 years and have two road and one MTB in the stable. I live in the Cascade foothills 45 miles north of Seattle in very hilly terrain. As my hip joints start to squeak more and more as I throw a leg over the bicycles and motorcycle, I am pondering an electric bike step through as a means of being able to continue bicycling. I need to have something with decent gears so I can continue to pedal and go up hills and use an electric motor to assist, if wanted. If I were to do a long-distance ride or STP again, I would use one of the road bikes. Cost of the bike is immaterial, since one of my road bikes cost over $ 5K (Independent Fabrications Titanium Crown Jewel).

I am thinking about a cargo bike so I could also use it to run errands. Right now, I am pondering the Tern HSD S8i, the Cero One, and the Ariel M-class. The Tern will be out next year. I am giving it the lead due to the Shimano Nexus internal hub, hydraulic discs and carbon fiber belt. The Ariel also has a Shimano Nexus, hydraulic discs and is less than half of what the Tern will be selling for, and is surprisingly well-equipped for the price. This will be strictly recreational for me and will not replace a car. Knowledgeable people should suggest any other models that I am overlooking. Being in the Seattle area, you see a ton of Radpower and Juiced bicycles around.

CascadiaSoonish
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:44 am

Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by CascadiaSoonish » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:28 pm

I bought a Sur-Ron from Lunacycles earlier this year. It decidedly falls into the "not even remotely an ebike" legal classification by power and speed, but still makes for a great city commuter. I've put several hundred miles on it already this summer. 100% electric, easy to ride, and ridiculously fun. Caveats: motorcycle training is really a necessity, and riders should be mindful not to be jerks regarding infrastructure and lanes designed for bikes.

As others have pointed out, these higher-powered bikes fall into a grey area between e-bikes and full-on electric motorcycles like a Zero. Looking into the possibility of registering and plating the bike would be wise in jurisdictions where the law wouldn't look kindly on something that's well beyond the legal definition of a Class 1/2/3 e-bike.

All that said, it's absurdly fun to ride. Got me to work this morning in less time than it would take to drive since it's so quick and nimble. Highly recommended for those with motorcycle experience and a desire to reduce their personal commuting carbon footprint.

michaeljc70
Posts: 5424
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Electric Bicycles

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:25 pm

CascadiaSoonish wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:28 pm
I bought a Sur-Ron from Lunacycles earlier this year. It decidedly falls into the "not even remotely an ebike" legal classification by power and speed, but still makes for a great city commuter. I've put several hundred miles on it already this summer. 100% electric, easy to ride, and ridiculously fun. Caveats: motorcycle training is really a necessity, and riders should be mindful not to be jerks regarding infrastructure and lanes designed for bikes.

As others have pointed out, these higher-powered bikes fall into a grey area between e-bikes and full-on electric motorcycles like a Zero. Looking into the possibility of registering and plating the bike would be wise in jurisdictions where the law wouldn't look kindly on something that's well beyond the legal definition of a Class 1/2/3 e-bike.

All that said, it's absurdly fun to ride. Got me to work this morning in less time than it would take to drive since it's so quick and nimble. Highly recommended for those with motorcycle experience and a desire to reduce their personal commuting carbon footprint.
The problem is try insuring that with a mainstream auto insurer as a vehicle. As far as I know, eBikes don't have a VIN. If you have plates, you need insurance. To get plates or insurance you need a VIN.

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