Are you a "solo ager?"

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
dknightd
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by dknightd » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:40 am

Good question! For now I have people who will help with my care. But I might end up solo. Perhaps by then I will not care?

mac808
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by mac808 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:50 am

I can't help but wonder about the untapped entrepreneurial opportunities here. I've spent enough time in nursing homes to know that past 85 your health and well-being is often totally entrusted to caregivers around you. Many of those caregivers treat it as just a job and are not emotionally invested in positive outcomes. Emotional investment and trust are hard problems to solve.
Last edited by mac808 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CULater
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by CULater » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:51 am

GerryL wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 am
carolinaman wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:57 am
I see potential issues with this. It is risky to find even close family members to do this. Once you have cognitive decline, there is a great temptation to misuse the funds. I think having some oversight over the fiduciary is advised. For example, if you have an attorney as fiduciary, have a CPA review your accounts each year to assure compliance with your care and objectives. I know, I lean toward paranoia with things like this, but I have seen so many situations where the fiduciary basically siphoned off the person's funds.
My plan is to have a team that includes my nephew and a professional fiduciary so that no major financial moves can be made by a single person. Don't know yet how to make that happen, but I have asked my nephew if he would be willing. With luck, I won't suffer severe cognitive decline and will stay physically capable and the LTC insurance company will get to keep all the money I've paid them in premiums. Hope for the best; plan for the worst.
Thank you. I have a nephew and we've been close over the years, but he has no financial sense and has not been very successful career-wise or even life-wise. However, he has a good heart and good intentions. Perhaps pairing him with a fiduciary might be a possible course of action for me that I hadn't thought about. I'll have to look into this. The tricky part is finding the right fiduciary. Another concern is that I might not be living near my nephew. Yet another concern is that he might have his hands full with his parents (my sister and BIL) who are the same age as I.
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GerryL
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by GerryL » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:58 am

CULater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:51 am
GerryL wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 am
carolinaman wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:57 am
I see potential issues with this. It is risky to find even close family members to do this. Once you have cognitive decline, there is a great temptation to misuse the funds. I think having some oversight over the fiduciary is advised. For example, if you have an attorney as fiduciary, have a CPA review your accounts each year to assure compliance with your care and objectives. I know, I lean toward paranoia with things like this, but I have seen so many situations where the fiduciary basically siphoned off the person's funds.
My plan is to have a team that includes my nephew and a professional fiduciary so that no major financial moves can be made by a single person. Don't know yet how to make that happen, but I have asked my nephew if he would be willing. With luck, I won't suffer severe cognitive decline and will stay physically capable and the LTC insurance company will get to keep all the money I've paid them in premiums. Hope for the best; plan for the worst.
Thank you. I have a nephew and we've been close over the years, but he has no financial sense and has not been very successful career-wise or even life-wise. However, he has a good heart and good intentions. Perhaps pairing him with a fiduciary might be a possible course of action for me that I hadn't thought about. I'll have to look into this. The tricky part is finding the right fiduciary. Another concern is that I might not be living near my nephew. Yet another concern is that he might have his hands full with his parents (my sister and BIL) who are the same age as I.
My nephew, who lives in another state, is not schooled in investing, but he does have a good head on his shoulders and has good financial sense. (And I gave him a copy of the Bogleheads book when he graduated from college several years ago.) His parents are both older than me. (Poor kid.) All the more reason to ask him to be involved -- as part of a team -- but not to expect him to take a lead role.

delamer
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by delamer » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:17 pm

CULater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:14 am
changingtimes wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 am
delamer wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
A solo ager with financial means should certainly consider a CCRC. Not only do they offer the opportunity to live in the circumstances that you need as you age, but there are medical personnel and social workers to make determinations when you should make transitions to higher levels of care.

The staff at my mother’s CCRC are the ones who alerted me to how severe her cognitive decline was.

In some ways, finding a trusted financial surrogate is harder.
Assuming that there hasn't been a sea change in elder care by the time I get there, I am assuming I will end up in a CCRC (or whatever its future equivalent is). Hopefully they will start creating them for urban hipsters. :) :)
I've been looking into CCRCs and have one major hangup. They resemble "life annuities" in the sense that you exchange a large upfront sum of money for the promise of lifetime healthcare, and you are locked into that "life care annuity" until you're done. That facility will be the place you reside for the rest of your life. If things change, such as family/friends moving away, you're locked in. If things change, such as the CCRC becomes a less desirable place to be, you're locked in. It's essentially a one-way non-revokable decision. You've got to be pretty sure about what you're doing. Maybe that's why the average age of people who choose a CCRC tends to be pretty old, in the 80s I believe. People wait until they're less likely to care about moving out or changing their minds because they're getting pretty close to the end of the road. How long are you likely to last in a CCRC if you are in your 80s when you move in? Is it worth the large sum of money you'll probably end of forfeiting? Like an annuity, most of the people who enter CCRCs end up paying the cost of the small percentage who live for years in assisted living/nursing care, minus the profit and the overhead collected by the CCRC. Is it worth it? If your choices are limited and you won't have someone to look after you, manage your financial and healthcare, and be your advocate, perhaps. For us solo agers, perhaps.
I certainly wouldn’t consider an independent apartment in a CCRC until my late 70’s, barring a medical condition that might require me to move in sooner. The average age is such that a 65-year-old would be a youngster.

If you are a solo ager, why would you be concerned about “forfeiting” your money? You don’t have any direct heirs who you want to pass money onto.

I agree with you about the basic financial model, but it isn’t really any different than medical insurance. A small percentage of the population accounts for a very high percentage of the costs. At least with a CCRC, you receive housing, food, transportation, medical attention, and social activities in return for your deposit/premium even if you never need to leave your independent apartment.

My intention isn’t to minimize the decision to turn over a large sum of money to an entity that is promising to provide care for you for the rest of your life. A lot of research and due diligence is required. But I disagree with some of the objections raised in this thread.

shell921
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by shell921 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:26 pm

I recently went to a "preview party" of a senior living facility being built near me.
The preview party was interesting -over 100 people there. Average age of people attending
this "preview" was about 79 I'd say. The price varies by
floorplan. there isn't a "buy in" fee of several hundred thousand -like with a CCRC but there IS
a "community fee" of between $20,000 - $100,000 based on the size of
the unit you will "rent". It is amortized over 5 years - meaning if you decide
to leave or you die, you or your estate gets some $$ back. Let's say after
2 years you want to leave, you would get 3/5ths of your 'community fee' back.

Essentially you are "renting" so do you need
renter's insurance? Your homeowner's insurance expense goes away
of course but I wonder -do you need renter's insurance?

on the website it says this:
"Residents will have the option to select one of two meal plans: All-Inclusive (meals included in your monthly fee)
or A La Carte (pay as you go). We believe this will give residents the freedom to choose what best suits their needs."

Had I stayed for the question/answer period after the one hour presentation I would have asked
more about this. I think if you want the pay-as-you-go meal plan the monthly fee is less.

They said they will have a "concierge" in the lobby to greet you. this I could do without.
also what happens if you run out of money ? do they kick you out?

If i sold my house i could afford this. if I rent out my house i could also afford this but
why would I rent it out? I would still have the upkeep and property taxes to deal with !!
and the homeowners! best to sell I would imagine.

https://silvergaterr.com/

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GerryL
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by GerryL » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:39 pm

delamer wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:17 pm

I certainly wouldn’t consider an independent apartment in a CCRC until my late 70’s, barring a medical condition that might require me to move in sooner. The average age is such that a 65-year-old would be a youngster.
From what I understand, CCRC's are targeting people who are still active and able to live independently. Many will then guarantee to move those residents to high level care (e.g., assisted living and eventually nursing or memory care) as needed. If you are already requiring assistance, you may not be accepted into a community where you would want to live.

delamer
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by delamer » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:53 pm

GerryL wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:39 pm
delamer wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:17 pm

I certainly wouldn’t consider an independent apartment in a CCRC until my late 70’s, barring a medical condition that might require me to move in sooner. The average age is such that a 65-year-old would be a youngster.
From what I understand, CCRC's are targeting people who are still active and able to live independently. Many will then guarantee to move those residents to high level care (e.g., assisted living and eventually nursing or memory care) as needed. If you are already requiring assistance, you may not be accepted into a community where you would want to live.
Right.

However, you might have a mild version of a medical condition in your 60’s that would allow you to be admitted to a CCRC. But that condition could cause deterioration to the point that you could not be admitted at 80. That’s the situation that I was referring to above.

mariezzz
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by mariezzz » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:37 pm

CULater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:14 am
changingtimes wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 am
delamer wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
A solo ager with financial means should certainly consider a CCRC. Not only do they offer the opportunity to live in the circumstances that you need as you age, but there are medical personnel and social workers to make determinations when you should make transitions to higher levels of care.

The staff at my mother’s CCRC are the ones who alerted me to how severe her cognitive decline was.

In some ways, finding a trusted financial surrogate is harder.
Assuming that there hasn't been a sea change in elder care by the time I get there, I am assuming I will end up in a CCRC (or whatever its future equivalent is). Hopefully they will start creating them for urban hipsters. :) :)
I've been looking into CCRCs and have one major hangup. They resemble "life annuities" in the sense that you exchange a large upfront sum of money for the promise of lifetime healthcare, and you are locked into that "life care annuity" until you're done. That facility will be the place you reside for the rest of your life. If things change, such as family/friends moving away, you're locked in. If things change, such as the CCRC becomes a less desirable place to be, you're locked in. It's essentially a one-way non-revokable decision. You've got to be pretty sure about what you're doing. Maybe that's why the average age of people who choose a CCRC tends to be pretty old, in the 80s I believe. People wait until they're less likely to care about moving out or changing their minds because they're getting pretty close to the end of the road. How long are you likely to last in a CCRC if you are in your 80s when you move in? Is it worth the large sum of money you'll probably end of forfeiting? Like an annuity, most of the people who enter CCRCs end up paying the cost of the small percentage who live for years in assisted living/nursing care, minus the profit and the overhead collected by the CCRC. Is it worth it? If your choices are limited and you won't have someone to look after you, manage your financial and healthcare, and be your advocate, perhaps. For us solo agers, perhaps.
I'd say: read the documentation very carefully. So many things can be interpreted differently later.

There's a retirement community (not CCRC) in my area which wants to put more units in the same land area, which means shifting from single 'family' homes to apartment style. There are about 20 units who bought in 20+ years ago who are now being told that they were not promised they could stay in same 'unit' (single family home). They are now being told they were only guaranteed a unit on the property, and they're being told they need to move into apartments. Some have moved, others have been trying to fight this. Apparently, the language in the documents was ambiguous enough that the owner of the property is trying to do this - although the owners and their lawyer say the paperwork says they could stay in the 'unit' they're currently in, and they paid fees up front for lifetime occupancy. Courts will end up deciding.

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LilyFleur
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by LilyFleur » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:37 am

billthecat wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:05 am
CULater wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:58 am
GerryL wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Spoken with the conviction of someone who has never had to deal with the cognitive decline of a close friend or relative.
Having seen what happened to my mother*, I am committed to arranging my affairs so that I can manage as long as possible and then, if necessary, hand off financial affairs to a trusted team. Establishing that trusted team is the hard part.

* She went from someone who could program an old VHS recorder to someone who did not understand how to change the channels on her tv.
Likewise with my mother, who is still living at 102 and has suffered from dementia since her mid-late 80s. Without my sister and myself I can't imagine how she would have fared. I have no children to see me through this "tail risk" scenario, so have to figure out how to take care of myself before I can no longer take care of myself.
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.
Lots of folks with dementia actually die from pneumonia--the flap that routes food to the stomach vs. air to the lungs becomes weakened (this is part of the disease). If you don't want to live forever with dementia, write into your advanced health directive that if you are diagnosed with dementia, that you do not want antibiotics or hospitalization for pneumonia, nor do you want a feeding tube. Then MAKE SURE the directive gets to the hospital if you end up there. In my experience, the hospital "lost" my mother's advanced health care directive between hospital stays that were just one month apart. Make sure that your family understands the advanced health care directive, because the hospital docs will for sure try to do the exact measures you do not want, and it is up to your family to say to that doctor, "Doctor, what is your understanding of the advanced health directive? Does it indicate that he/she wants a feeding tube? Yes, we do want his/her wishes followed, even if it means being on hospice."

bayview
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by bayview » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:18 am

smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Unless you're like my mother, who handled family accounts for her whole life, including before and after my father died when she was only 52, and then developed cognitive problems due to undiagnosed and untreated hypertension. She is now in assisted living and can't remember anything that happened within the last few months and years, although is fine with anything older, still works crossword puzzles, fine with math, etc. Fortunately, the financial smarts that she displayed up until two-three years ago resulted in enough savings to live comfortably for the rest of her life (she's in her 90's), and she did all the legal groundwork that allowed me to take over her financial and health affairs.

Don't be so sure about how cognitive issues arise, and how serious they can be.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

jayk238
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by jayk238 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:01 am

CULater wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:58 am
GerryL wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Spoken with the conviction of someone who has never had to deal with the cognitive decline of a close friend or relative.
Having seen what happened to my mother*, I am committed to arranging my affairs so that I can manage as long as possible and then, if necessary, hand off financial affairs to a trusted team. Establishing that trusted team is the hard part.

* She went from someone who could program an old VHS recorder to someone who did not understand how to change the channels on her tv.
Likewise with my mother, who is still living at 102 and has suffered from dementia since her mid-late 80s. Without my sister and myself I can't imagine how she would have fared. I have no children to see me through this "tail risk" scenario, so have to figure out how to take care of myself before I can no longer take care of myself.
Hypothetically, if you are alone as you age and do become demented and on your own pass away sooner-what difference will this make?

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GerryL
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by GerryL » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:13 pm

jayk238 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:01 am

Hypothetically, if you are alone as you age and do become demented and on your own pass away sooner-what difference will this make?
It's not the death. It's the dying. Death occurs and it is done. Dying can happen quickly or slowly. Dying can be peaceful or painful. I think most people are worried about quality of the final weeks/months/years before death. Even if they should have dementia when that time comes, they hope to be able to die with dignity.

Chaconne
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Chaconne » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:45 pm

Although it is not as purely practical or actionable as other resources mentioned in this thread, I would recommend:

Being Mortal by Atul Gawande

It offers a perspective on the aging process as well as on the changing trends in assisted living and other elder-care institutions. It is an eye-opener on what people might expect. It's also compelling and extremely well-written. Gawande is a MacArthur Fellowship recipient, professor at Harvard Medical School, a surgeon and was recently appointed as CEO of the healthcare organization being formed by Warren Buffett, Jeff Bezos and Jaime Diamon.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:15 pm

jayk238 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:01 am
...
Hypothetically, if you are alone as you age and do become demented and on your own pass away sooner-what difference will this make?
Loss of cognitive ability is not loss of emotion, nor loss of the feeling of physical pain or pleasure.

On a personal note, the idea of being dead does not bother me. The dying process does.

PJW

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GerryL
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by GerryL » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:24 pm

Chaconne wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:45 pm
Although it is not as purely practical or actionable as other resources mentioned in this thread, I would recommend:

Being Mortal by Atul Gawande

It offers a perspective on the aging process as well as on the changing trends in assisted living and other elder-care institutions. It is an eye-opener on what people might expect. It's also compelling and extremely well-written. Gawande is a MacArthur Fellowship recipient, professor at Harvard Medical School, a surgeon and was recently appointed as CEO of the healthcare organization being formed by Warren Buffett, Jeff Bezos and Jaime Diamon.
Another excellent book that I can recommend is "The Gift of Caring: Saving our parents from the perils of modern healthcare." Although it does not focus on the solo-ager, it is a very practical guide to how to deal with the aging process when it intersects with the healthcare system. I no longer have parents, but I see it as a reference to help me prepare myself and "my team" (whoever that turns out to be) for future possibilities.

megabad
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by megabad » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:25 pm

On the plus side...
In almost 60% of elder abuse and neglect incidents, the perpetrator is a family member. Two thirds of perpetrators are adult children or spouses.
-National Council on Aging

Solo is not my chosen path, but there are benefits.

jayk238
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by jayk238 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:41 pm

GerryL wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:13 pm
jayk238 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:01 am

Hypothetically, if you are alone as you age and do become demented and on your own pass away sooner-what difference will this make?
It's not the death. It's the dying. Death occurs and it is done. Dying can happen quickly or slowly. Dying can be peaceful or painful. I think most people are worried about quality of the final weeks/months/years before death. Even if they should have dementia when that time comes, they hope to be able to die with dignity.
How is living with dementia better then?

jayk238
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by jayk238 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:44 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:15 pm
jayk238 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:01 am
...
Hypothetically, if you are alone as you age and do become demented and on your own pass away sooner-what difference will this make?
Loss of cognitive ability is not loss of emotion, nor loss of the feeling of physical pain or pleasure.

On a personal note, the idea of being dead does not bother me. The dying process does.

PJW
Living with dementia is living a tortured life.

No amount of family support makes the dementia palatable it is painful as the world around loses meaning and memories fade away. Where loved ones become strangers and everyday living becomes more distant.

Dying with dignity doesnt have to include prolonging the dementia itself.

Living with family does not guarantee this is a better or more meaningful experience because the experience itself becomes meaningless.

X528
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by X528 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:44 pm

GerryL wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:13 pm
jayk238 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:01 am

Hypothetically, if you are alone as you age and do become demented and on your own pass away sooner-what difference will this make?
It's not the death. It's the dying. Death occurs and it is done. Dying can happen quickly or slowly. Dying can be peaceful or painful. I think most people are worried about quality of the final weeks/months/years before death. Even if they should have dementia when that time comes, they hope to be able to die with dignity.
There is dignitas.ch:

http://www.dignitas.ch/index.php?lang=en

Pluto9th
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Pluto9th » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:48 pm

Another good book: Katy Butler's "The Art of Dying Well". It isn't about solo aging specifically, but it discusses a number of practical ways to increase one's odds of having a better ending, and there are things one can do (or avoid doing) decades before the end. Though of course one can do all the right things and still have a bad ending.
CULater wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:58 am
Likewise with my mother, who is still living at 102 and has suffered from dementia since her mid-late 80s. Without my sister and myself I can't imagine how she would have fared. I have no children to see me through this "tail risk" scenario, so have to figure out how to take care of myself before I can no longer take care of myself.
A long-time caregiver might have a significant shorter lifespan than that of the elder being cared for, at least according to some studies. I find comfort in that.

randomguy
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by randomguy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:20 pm

tc101 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:21 am
If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.
That was not true for my father. He was a very sharp investor. Then in his mid 80's he started getting confused. At first he realized he was in a state of cognitive decline and asked my brother and me for help. Then a few years later he started to think he was a brilliant investor and started doing really stupid things. A so called "friend" talked him into a very bad investment. It was a mess.

I think it is very common for people to become incompetent as they age, and often not realize it.
That is the risk. It isn't really a binary thing. Think of it like driving. It isn't like one day you wake up as an unsafe driver. It is more that every year you become slightly worse (eyesight goes, reactions slow,...). It is very hard for you to come to the conclusion that you should stop driving and you often need outside intervention. Same thing with money. At some point you go to that annuity seminar and you go from getting a free dinner to buying everyone else in the room a free dinner:) Google all the scams that pray on the elderly. I can assure you that most people wouldn't be falling for them in their 50s.

Now this isn't saying all elderly people are suffering cognitive declines that make managing money impossible. It is just hard as a person involved to figure out when they have lost the ability. And the people around you will tend to try and give you the benefit of the doubt as much as possible.

THY4373
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by THY4373 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:30 am

megabad wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:25 pm
On the plus side...
In almost 60% of elder abuse and neglect incidents, the perpetrator is a family member. Two thirds of perpetrators are adult children or spouses.
-National Council on Aging

Solo is not my chosen path, but there are benefits.
That statistic while sobering may not tell you what you think it is telling you. I am guessing family members make up the bulk of care givers thus it may not be surprising they also make up the bulk of abusers. What would be more telling would be are family members or hired help more likely to be abusers.

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changingtimes
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by changingtimes » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:54 am

megabad wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:25 pm
Solo is not my chosen path, but there are benefits.
Every so often I do remind myself that having kids--or being married!--isn't a guarantee that you won't be mostly on your own during the aging process.

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dm200
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by dm200 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am

Not solo now, but who knows the future.

In my observation of "solo agers", women seem to do better than men, on average. I think my wife would do better than I would. However, there are other differences in the average situation of such men and women in the "solo agers" situations.

We only have one child - now a married adult who lives in the area.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by ychuck46 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 am

tooluser wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:47 am
Robots will likely be able to deliver a better simulation of care than humans. Looking forward to them.
They also won't steal everything you have when family members aren't around, or sit there laughing when you need help getting out of bed.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by thursdaysd » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:52 am

delamer wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:17 pm
CULater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:14 am
changingtimes wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 am
delamer wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
A solo ager with financial means should certainly consider a CCRC. Not only do they offer the opportunity to live in the circumstances that you need as you age, but there are medical personnel and social workers to make determinations when you should make transitions to higher levels of care.

The staff at my mother’s CCRC are the ones who alerted me to how severe her cognitive decline was.

In some ways, finding a trusted financial surrogate is harder.
Assuming that there hasn't been a sea change in elder care by the time I get there, I am assuming I will end up in a CCRC (or whatever its future equivalent is). Hopefully they will start creating them for urban hipsters. :) :)
I've been looking into CCRCs and have one major hangup. They resemble "life annuities" in the sense that you exchange a large upfront sum of money for the promise of lifetime healthcare, and you are locked into that "life care annuity" until you're done. That facility will be the place you reside for the rest of your life. If things change, such as family/friends moving away, you're locked in. If things change, such as the CCRC becomes a less desirable place to be, you're locked in. It's essentially a one-way non-revokable decision. You've got to be pretty sure about what you're doing. Maybe that's why the average age of people who choose a CCRC tends to be pretty old, in the 80s I believe. People wait until they're less likely to care about moving out or changing their minds because they're getting pretty close to the end of the road. How long are you likely to last in a CCRC if you are in your 80s when you move in? Is it worth the large sum of money you'll probably end of forfeiting? Like an annuity, most of the people who enter CCRCs end up paying the cost of the small percentage who live for years in assisted living/nursing care, minus the profit and the overhead collected by the CCRC. Is it worth it? If your choices are limited and you won't have someone to look after you, manage your financial and healthcare, and be your advocate, perhaps. For us solo agers, perhaps.
I certainly wouldn’t consider an independent apartment in a CCRC until my late 70’s, barring a medical condition that might require me to move in sooner. The average age is such that a 65-year-old would be a youngster.

If you are a solo ager, why would you be concerned about “forfeiting” your money? You don’t have any direct heirs who you want to pass money onto.

I agree with you about the basic financial model, but it isn’t really any different than medical insurance. A small percentage of the population accounts for a very high percentage of the costs. At least with a CCRC, you receive housing, food, transportation, medical attention, and social activities in return for your deposit/premium even if you never need to leave your independent apartment.

My intention isn’t to minimize the decision to turn over a large sum of money to an entity that is promising to provide care for you for the rest of your life. A lot of research and due diligence is required. But I disagree with some of the objections raised in this thread.
There are different financial models for CCRCs. Some will return the upfront fee (usually large in this case) if you leave or die, although without interest or an allowance for inflation. Some are month by month with no guarantee of care if you run out of money. I found a book by Ruth Alvarez on CCRCs helpful in sorting this out. In my state (NC) they have to file detailed financial disclosure statements which obviously should be read with care...

In my area the good ones have multi-year waiting lists, especially long ones for two-bedroom units, so if you think may want to move to one you should sign up early. Usually you can refuse an offer and just stay on the waiting list if you are not ready. When you do move in you will be subject to both a health and financial check, so waiting too long is a mistake.
Thursday's child has far to go

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by dm200 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:54 am

ychuck46 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 am
tooluser wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:47 am
Robots will likely be able to deliver a better simulation of care than humans. Looking forward to them.
They also won't steal everything you have when family members aren't around, or sit there laughing when you need help getting out of bed.
Yes - I see the potential benefits of such medical "robots", but, as a Senior male, while my recent two "experiences" of having a Foley Catheter 'inserted' by young, female nurses were rather unpleasant experiences, I am not sure I would want a robot to do something like that to me!

I, now, FULLY understand the general statement:

"Be nice to nurses, they pick the size of your catheter!"

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by changingtimes » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 pm

ychuck46 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 am
tooluser wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:47 am
Robots will likely be able to deliver a better simulation of care than humans. Looking forward to them.
They also won't steal everything you have when family members aren't around, or sit there laughing when you need help getting out of bed.
But will they be WALL-E or the T-2000?

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by ncbill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:12 pm

smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Not in my experience.

Mom divorced around age 40...just a few years later (looking back through records after her death) she had lost the ability even to balance a checkbook.

That was literally a decade before she was officially diagnosed with dementia (a non-Alzheimer's form that strikes as early as one's 40s)

What delayed anyone finding out about her financial problems was lifetime alimony and a hefty untaxed property settlement (~$750,000 in 2019 dollars)...which of course was all but gone by the time I found out about her financial problems.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by THY4373 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:06 pm

changingtimes wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:54 am
Every so often I do remind myself that having kids--or being married!--isn't a guarantee that you won't be mostly on your own during the aging process.
This is true my mother's best friend buried both of her children and her husband. Very sad.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by THY4373 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:10 pm

dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am
Not solo now, but who knows the future.

In my observation of "solo agers", women seem to do better than men, on average. I think my wife would do better than I would. However, there are other differences in the average situation of such men and women in the "solo agers" situations.

We only have one child - now a married adult who lives in the area.
After my divorce I figured out I preferred to live a solo life (and I am loving it so far). I started reading up on a lot of studies of single people and the like and you are correct a lot of studies show that women do single better than men and I say this as a man. It seems to come down to largely that women are better are maintaining robust social networks which help them especially as they age. Men are much more likely to be isolated with little support. This is on average of course. It is something I am beginning to work on because during my marriage I let a lot of my social network lapse.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Johnnie » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:22 am

I am likely in this boat and have been planning accordingly. Once the financial plan was in place and funded my thoughts turned increasingly to the social side. I have a small circle of cronies in the community where I plan to retire, but they are not getting any younger either.

So the "build a community" bit is what caught my attention in the articles, specifically the value of "weak tie" communities:

'People who don’t expand their social networks can find themselves isolated and lonely as friends die or move closer to their grandkids. Strengthening ties with relatives and making new friends, particularly younger ones, can counteract that trend. So can cultivating relationships with neighbors, coffee shop buddies and other acquaintances. A 2014 study found people with more of these “weak tie” relationships reported being happier.'

~~~~~~~~~

I expect to spend some time in an assisted living community at some point, and think I want to be proactive about checking out if necessary. Zeke Emmanuel's 2014 Atlantic article "Why I Hope to Die at 75" is a major influence, except my number is 85 because like everyone I share it with my take is "75 is too young." Zeke does not favor the proactive exit strategy - leaves a scar on those left behind - and I respect that. His plan is to accept no medical care after 75, painkillers excepted.

But I really, really don't want to spend years as a virtual diaper-wearing vegetable, if that's the alternative. Or suffer the tortures of the damned with chemo or whatever in order to buy a couple more severely compromised years. So a different kind of assistance may be the ticket when the time comes.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... 75/379329/
"I know nothing."

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:28 pm

THY4373 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:10 pm
dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am
Not solo now, but who knows the future.
In my observation of "solo agers", women seem to do better than men, on average. I think my wife would do better than I would. However, there are other differences in the average situation of such men and women in the "solo agers" situations.
We only have one child - now a married adult who lives in the area.
After my divorce I figured out I preferred to live a solo life (and I am loving it so far). I started reading up on a lot of studies of single people and the like and you are correct a lot of studies show that women do single better than men and I say this as a man. It seems to come down to largely that women are better are maintaining robust social networks which help them especially as they age. Men are much more likely to be isolated with little support. This is on average of course. It is something I am beginning to work on because during my marriage I let a lot of my social network lapse.
In recent years, I have been acquainted with several women who were divorced from their husbands decades before, but these women assumed a "caregiver" role in their ex-husband's later years - and, when he died, took care of his funeral, etc.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:31 pm

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:28 pm
THY4373 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:10 pm
dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am
Not solo now, but who knows the future.
In my observation of "solo agers", women seem to do better than men, on average. I think my wife would do better than I would. However, there are other differences in the average situation of such men and women in the "solo agers" situations.
We only have one child - now a married adult who lives in the area.
After my divorce I figured out I preferred to live a solo life (and I am loving it so far). I started reading up on a lot of studies of single people and the like and you are correct a lot of studies show that women do single better than men and I say this as a man. It seems to come down to largely that women are better are maintaining robust social networks which help them especially as they age. Men are much more likely to be isolated with little support. This is on average of course. It is something I am beginning to work on because during my marriage I let a lot of my social network lapse.
In recent years, I have been acquainted with several women who were divorced from their husbands decades before, but these women assumed a "caregiver" role in their ex-husband's later years - and, when he died, took care of his funeral, etc.
Do you know any men who did the same for their ex-wives?

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:43 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:31 pm
dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:28 pm
THY4373 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:10 pm
dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am
Not solo now, but who knows the future.
In my observation of "solo agers", women seem to do better than men, on average. I think my wife would do better than I would. However, there are other differences in the average situation of such men and women in the "solo agers" situations.
We only have one child - now a married adult who lives in the area.
After my divorce I figured out I preferred to live a solo life (and I am loving it so far). I started reading up on a lot of studies of single people and the like and you are correct a lot of studies show that women do single better than men and I say this as a man. It seems to come down to largely that women are better are maintaining robust social networks which help them especially as they age. Men are much more likely to be isolated with little support. This is on average of course. It is something I am beginning to work on because during my marriage I let a lot of my social network lapse.
In recent years, I have been acquainted with several women who were divorced from their husbands decades before, but these women assumed a "caregiver" role in their ex-husband's later years - and, when he died, took care of his funeral, etc.

Do you know any men who did the same for their ex-wives?
No.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:10 pm

This is a real issue. Grandma has had 4 daughters taking care of her needs at 99 and navigating the transition to Medicaid. I think my aunt was already depressed seeing all of this and knowing she didn't have anyone to do it for her. She committed suicide. No one should ever choose that extreme! Get people organized every day I ask my mom if she has updated her wills yet. I have even offered to pay her for it.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Calico » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:11 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:31 pm
dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:28 pm
THY4373 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:10 pm
dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am
Not solo now, but who knows the future.
In my observation of "solo agers", women seem to do better than men, on average. I think my wife would do better than I would. However, there are other differences in the average situation of such men and women in the "solo agers" situations.
We only have one child - now a married adult who lives in the area.
After my divorce I figured out I preferred to live a solo life (and I am loving it so far). I started reading up on a lot of studies of single people and the like and you are correct a lot of studies show that women do single better than men and I say this as a man. It seems to come down to largely that women are better are maintaining robust social networks which help them especially as they age. Men are much more likely to be isolated with little support. This is on average of course. It is something I am beginning to work on because during my marriage I let a lot of my social network lapse.
In recent years, I have been acquainted with several women who were divorced from their husbands decades before, but these women assumed a "caregiver" role in their ex-husband's later years - and, when he died, took care of his funeral, etc.
Do you know any men who did the same for their ex-wives?
Women tend to outlive men, so I would think it would be more rare for men to take care of their dying ex-wives. I don't think it's that they wouldn't do it, but that they don't get the opportunity. I know of a few divorced women who have great ex husbands who take care of them when they need help. So men have the potential to be such caregivers.

I won't be taking care of my ex husband. I am not a saint I am afraid. He's difficult to get along with and there is a reason why he's estranged from most of his family now. It's sad really. Even our teen daughter doesn't want anything to do with him (I suggested family counseling for them but it doesn't appear to be working).

Back to the topic, I only have the one daughter and I don't want her to have to "take care of me" when I am older. I am hoping for those robots too. My own mom is starting to show signs of memory issues and I am worried for her. After my daughter is done with college (she's still in high school now), my plan is to sell my house, use the money from the sale to pay off college debt (or some of it) if there is any (we have a 529 and we are hoping for grants and scholarships) and invest the rest. Then move in with my mom and "rent" from her while taking care of her. I talked to mom and my brother about this and we all like the idea. She most likely will need someone to help take care of her. She has long-term care insurance and I hope, if we need it, to use it to hire a private nurse to come help me. My brother also lives next door to her, so he and his wife are there too if we need help.

I haven't quite figured out what I will do when I am older. It just seems I have a lot of short term care for people that aren't me right now. I'll keep reading this thread though. Even though I am not solo, I think a lot of it applies to my situation too (single woman, won't marry again, one child who I hope has her own life).

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:18 pm

Zonian59 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:46 am
Yep, I'm a "solo ager" and soon to be "elder orphan".
I'm 60, in reasonably good health, depending on which lab tests you look at, but have no siblings or close relatives or close friends.
I'm currently a caregiver for my 94-year-old mother who has been a semi-invalid since a stroke experienced seven years ago and now in steadily advancing dementia. She is fortunate she has someone to look after her. But as for me, I am anxious about my future years as I have no close support.

Geber's “Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers” seems like a good start, but cursory readings still assumes you have someone out there. I'm still wary about leaving my affairs in the hands of strangers, but what choice do I have?

I've got a lot of thinking to do and lots of soul-searching too.

A thought: There are orphanages for young children to be adopted. Are there "orphanages for elder orphans" to be adopted by a nice family who needs a grandfather or grandmother and is willing to look after him/her?
I totally think it should become a thing! Though you may need to have some assets to get "adopted" it would be great for all of society.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:27 pm

Calico wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:11 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:31 pm
dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:28 pm
THY4373 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:10 pm
dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:01 am
Not solo now, but who knows the future.
In my observation of "solo agers", women seem to do better than men, on average. I think my wife would do better than I would. However, there are other differences in the average situation of such men and women in the "solo agers" situations.
We only have one child - now a married adult who lives in the area.
After my divorce I figured out I preferred to live a solo life (and I am loving it so far). I started reading up on a lot of studies of single people and the like and you are correct a lot of studies show that women do single better than men and I say this as a man. It seems to come down to largely that women are better are maintaining robust social networks which help them especially as they age. Men are much more likely to be isolated with little support. This is on average of course. It is something I am beginning to work on because during my marriage I let a lot of my social network lapse.
In recent years, I have been acquainted with several women who were divorced from their husbands decades before, but these women assumed a "caregiver" role in their ex-husband's later years - and, when he died, took care of his funeral, etc.
Do you know any men who did the same for their ex-wives?
Women tend to outlive men, so I would think it would be more rare for men to take care of their dying ex-wives. I don't think it's that they wouldn't do it, but that they don't get the opportunity. I know of a few divorced women who have great ex husbands who take care of them when they need help. So men have the potential to be such caregivers.

I won't be taking care of my ex husband. I am not a saint I am afraid. He's difficult to get along with and there is a reason why he's estranged from most of his family now. It's sad really. Even our teen daughter doesn't want anything to do with him (I suggested family counseling for them but it doesn't appear to be working).

Back to the topic, I only have the one daughter and I don't want her to have to "take care of me" when I am older. I am hoping for those robots too. My own mom is starting to show signs of memory issues and I am worried for her. After my daughter is done with college (she's still in high school now), my plan is to sell my house, use the money from the sale to pay off college debt (or some of it) if there is any (we have a 529 and we are hoping for grants and scholarships) and invest the rest. Then move in with my mom and "rent" from her while taking care of her. I talked to mom and my brother about this and we all like the idea. She most likely will need someone to help take care of her. She has long-term care insurance and I hope, if we need it, to use it to hire a private nurse to come help me. My brother also lives next door to her, so he and his wife are there too if we need help.

I haven't quite figured out what I will do when I am older. It just seems I have a lot of short term care for people that aren't me right now. I'll keep reading this thread though. Even though I am not solo, I think a lot of it applies to my situation too (single woman, won't marry again, one child who I hope has her own life).
The percentage of men who would be willing to feed, bathe, and change the adult diapers of their ex-wives is going to be pretty low. That’s what I think of when I hear the term “caregiver.”

Frankly, I wouldn’t do it for my husband and I am a married woman. And I wouldn’t expect him to do it for me.

That’s why we have LTC Insurance and ample savings.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:44 pm

The percentage of men who would be willing to feed, bathe, and change the adult diapers of their ex-wives is going to be pretty low. That’s what I think of when I hear the term “caregiver.”
Frankly, I wouldn’t do it for my husband and I am a married woman. And I wouldn’t expect him to do it for me.
Yes - that is, often, what a "caregiver" needs to do.

There are still some "saints" (as I would call them) among us (although shrinking in number) who are willing and able to do this. As our population "ages", there will be more of us each year needing such care.

My late mother was one of those saints (until her own death from cancer at age 50). When her elderly father (in his 90's) became too much for her mother to provide needed care by herself, my parents brought my maternal grandparents into our home so my mother and grandmother could, together, provide needed care to my grandfather.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by fposte » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:50 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:22 am
I am likely in this boat and have been planning accordingly. Once the financial plan was in place and funded my thoughts turned increasingly to the social side. I have a small circle of cronies in the community where I plan to retire, but they are not getting any younger either.

So the "build a community" bit is what caught my attention in the articles, specifically the value of "weak tie" communities:

'People who don’t expand their social networks can find themselves isolated and lonely as friends die or move closer to their grandkids. Strengthening ties with relatives and making new friends, particularly younger ones, can counteract that trend. So can cultivating relationships with neighbors, coffee shop buddies and other acquaintances. A 2014 study found people with more of these “weak tie” relationships reported being happier.'
I agree strongly with this, and I do think that's a big part of the value of a CCRC/ILF/intentional community--there's less labor involved in developing such ties. And the coffee-shop buddies is a big cultural thing around me. Regulars at the "liar's table" check in on one another, share/provide medical transport, etc.

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dm200
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:00 pm

In our "very diverse" local community - some such (mainly immigrant) groups have a very strong tradition of adult children caring for (in various ways) their aging and elderly parents. My current manager comes from such an immigrant community - and her sister [married with child(ren) ] has their aging parents living with them. Fortunately, the parents are in generally good health and do not need very much "care".

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Oakwood42 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:04 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:32 am
ionball wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:31 am
Thanks for sharing this important topic. Health problems have a way of sneaking up as we age and cognitive decline can be a very challenging problem.
+1
Yes.
I have both.
What was the question, again?
:oops:
lol

randomguy
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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by randomguy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:19 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:22 am

But I really, really don't want to spend years as a virtual diaper-wearing vegetable, if that's the alternative. Or suffer the tortures of the damned with chemo or whatever in order to buy a couple more severely compromised years. So a different kind of assistance may be the ticket when the time comes.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... 75/379329/
But where do you draw the line? In a coma is one thing. But about if you laugh and smile and have a great time but you can't remember it 24 hours later? Not being able to run is one thing. Not being able to golf is another. Not being able to walk is yet another. Not being able to get out of bed is final stage.

The general trend is as you get older, you reconsider how unliveable live is as an old person. It is one thing for a 57 year old to talk about dying in 18 years. It is another for a 74year old to accept. It is easy to say you wouldn't get that lump removed now. It is a lot different and the doctor says taking that lump off will give you another 5 healthy years.

The extremes are easy. The middle ground is very messy.

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Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Elsebet » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:46 pm

My husband and I do not have children so I think about this issue quite often. I was born very late (my mother was 42) and I'm 43 now. Almost all of my relatives were already at an advanced age or died when I was young. I moved far away from family at 19 and the circumstances at home were not great so I'm a bit estranged from my extended family. My middle brother had 3 kids but he died in his 40's, my oldest brother had no kids like me. My mom is 85 and still driving and living by herself in a house with 4 floors. My dad died at 73 but he smoked/drank heavily and was overweight so it wasn't a surprise that he went a bit earlier.

I have 3 sets of childless couples who are friends and my hope is that we arrange some kind of housing arrangement together if we find ourselves alone at some point in the future. I've also dreamed about buying some land and building a small community of like-minded "elderly orphans" to grow old together. It would be neat to have a bunch of small 1 floor accessible homes and a large shared community center, store, kitchen, and gym in the middle of them.

If my husband dies first I will probably sell whatever rural home we have and move into a walkable community and hope I either die before I get too bad or have the wits to go out in the woods and take care of business myself when the need arises. If I die first my husband has already told me to "hold the door" because he'll be right behind me. It's kind of romantic and grim at the same time. :)
"...the man who adapts himself to his slender means and makes himself wealthy on a little sum, is the truly rich man..." ~Seneca

delamer
Posts: 8734
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:25 pm

Elsebet wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:46 pm
My husband and I do not have children so I think about this issue quite often. I was born very late (my mother was 42) and I'm 43 now. Almost all of my relatives were already at an advanced age or died when I was young. I moved far away from family at 19 and the circumstances at home were not great so I'm a bit estranged from my extended family. My middle brother had 3 kids but he died in his 40's, my oldest brother had no kids like me. My mom is 85 and still driving and living by herself in a house with 4 floors. My dad died at 73 but he smoked/drank heavily and was overweight so it wasn't a surprise that he went a bit earlier.

I have 3 sets of childless couples who are friends and my hope is that we arrange some kind of housing arrangement together if we find ourselves alone at some point in the future. I've also dreamed about buying some land and building a small community of like-minded "elderly orphans" to grow old together. It would be neat to have a bunch of small 1 floor accessible homes and a large shared community center, store, kitchen, and gym in the middle of them.

If my husband dies first I will probably sell whatever rural home we have and move into a walkable community and hope I either die before I get too bad or have the wits to go out in the woods and take care of business myself when the need arises. If I die first my husband has already told me to "hold the door" because he'll be right behind me. It's kind of romantic and grim at the same time. :)
The thing is, you need younger people to provide care, cooking, and housekeeping for your “elderly orphan” plan to work as you age in place.

Which brings you back to a CCRC arrangement.

Seasonal
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by Seasonal » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:52 pm

Chaconne wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:45 pm
Although it is not as purely practical or actionable as other resources mentioned in this thread, I would recommend:

Being Mortal by Atul Gawande

It offers a perspective on the aging process as well as on the changing trends in assisted living and other elder-care institutions. It is an eye-opener on what people might expect. It's also compelling and extremely well-written. Gawande is a MacArthur Fellowship recipient, professor at Harvard Medical School, a surgeon and was recently appointed as CEO of the healthcare organization being formed by Warren Buffett, Jeff Bezos and Jaime Diamon.
Excellent book. The thing I most remember from it is that adult children want their parents to be safe and the parents want autonomy (being in control of their lives), even at the cost of safety. Assisted living communities market to the adult children.

delamer
Posts: 8734
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:07 pm

Seasonal wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:52 pm
Chaconne wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:45 pm
Although it is not as purely practical or actionable as other resources mentioned in this thread, I would recommend:

Being Mortal by Atul Gawande

It offers a perspective on the aging process as well as on the changing trends in assisted living and other elder-care institutions. It is an eye-opener on what people might expect. It's also compelling and extremely well-written. Gawande is a MacArthur Fellowship recipient, professor at Harvard Medical School, a surgeon and was recently appointed as CEO of the healthcare organization being formed by Warren Buffett, Jeff Bezos and Jaime Diamon.
Excellent book. The thing I most remember from it is that adult children want their parents to be safe and the parents want autonomy (being in control of their lives), even at the cost of safety. Assisted living communities market to the adult children.
The problem being that an elder who has dementia or cannot perform ADLs without support is by definition not in control/autonomous.

realdlr
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:50 pm

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Post by realdlr » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:28 pm

I don't think I would mind if, at 80, the cost of my CCRC left me very little money left. Because if I have no children, no spouse, nieces/nephews, etc. to leave my estate to, what do I need a whole bunch money for? Especially since at 80/90 years old, I may not be able to, or want to do very much? I hope the spend the majority of my money in my Go-Go years (preserving just enough to buy into a CCRC) so that while I'm in that CCRC by myself, I have a lot of memories to look back on.

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