[Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by UpperNwGuy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:49 pm

I enjoy checking my balances each evening during the 7pm news broadcast. Please don't spoil my fun by lecturing me on the evils of daily balance checking. Just because you don't check daily doesn't mean it is morally wrong for me to check daily.

jrbdmb
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by jrbdmb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:49 pm

Perhaps the "fee wars" are reaching their logical conclusion.

I know I'm only speaking for myself, but If the expense ratios for common funds like VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral) have to increase from 0.04% to say 0.06% to allow for a better online and customer support experience, I'm OK with that.

CoastalWinds
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by CoastalWinds » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:50 pm

financeperchance wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:27 pm
Excuse me but some of us very much want to check the account balance of our life savings. Call it autism, call it lack of a hobby, day trading, whatever. It should not be hard for the largest mutual fund company in the world to get its IT issues fixed. I see Vanguard burn through a lot of money on Google and Facebook ads -- they should use some of that money to fix their issues first and then aim to increase their AUM
+1.

And they can use more timely, direct, and transparent means of communication to keep their customers appraised of the issue and their remedy ... rather than Twitter.

HomeStretch
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by HomeStretch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:51 pm

Multiple threads started today about this which have been merged into this ongoing thread:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=288016

According to one poster, Vanguard acknowledged the issue on social media and said they are working on resolving it.

finfire
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by finfire » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:53 pm

it's not my day of the year for checking balances, but it doesn't sound good.

Hope they have it fixed by next April.

Northern Flicker
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Northern Flicker » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:00 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:51 pm
I find it interesting that someone didn't check numbers before publishing and give a "Not OK, delay changing the numbers before publishing and updating the web site." Or even at least 2 people have to look. I wouldn't want Vanguard to be in control of nuclear launch codes.

It is certainly better to not update than to publish bogus numbers.
There are SEC mandated time limits to publish NAV. Publishing inaccurate ones probably doesn’t meet the requirement, and publishing data known to be inaccurate especially would not meet the requirement, but it probably is easier for a provider to say to the SEC, gee, we didn’t notice the error than gee, we didn’t notice the data was not published.

If it were my fund, I would spend my time posting my complaint at the SEC website and not on Bogleheads, which might motivate Vanguard to put better controls in place.

bondsr4me
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by bondsr4me » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:04 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:49 pm
I enjoy checking my balances each evening during the 7pm news broadcast. Please don't spoil my fun by lecturing me on the evils of daily balance checking. Just because you don't check daily doesn't mean it is morally wrong for me to check daily.
It's OK to check your account daily.
Anyone not keeping tabs on their money is irresponsible IMO.
I check my accounts everyday.
It is one way to monitor for cyber theft these days.
Just part of good due diligence.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:28 pm

fru-gal wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:25 am
I check market close prices each day (get an email from Vanguard around 5:15) for just the indices.
Vanguard can be set to email you end of day prices? Maybe not available to peons like myself :-)
Actually to anyone. I'd log in and explain how to do it, but can't log in right now or I'll make things worse... :D

Hint- it's in the alert section. You can get a pre-market email and a post market email. The morning one normally comes around 9:20 and is called "Market Summary: xx/xx/xx before the bell". Don't have a closing one in front of me, but it comes around 5:15PM.

Edit:

Account Maintenance, Alerts, Stock & ETF alerts, Market Alerts, Before-the-bell and After-the-bell market summaries.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Big Dog
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches]

Post by Big Dog » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:02 pm
I merged / combined several threads discuss Vanguard price "glitches".

On tonight's Nightly Business Report, the anchors stated that there were incorrect / incomplete market reports for indexes and closing prices. They actually gave a disclaimer stating "Here are the numbers we have, you might see different numbers elsewhere." :)

fred9, Welcome!
Article in today's WSJ said the glitch was the feed from the NYSE itself. So perhaps Vanguard is off the hook on this one?

jebmke
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by jebmke » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:34 pm

financeperchance wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:41 pm
My paranoia is that the opposite will happen, that I log in and my balance is below what it should be. A lawyer friend says the PDF files of your account statements have as much legal validity these days as paper versions, so I am passing along the tip to download those account statements from your Vanguard account as soon as you get the chance.
I always download them. It is easy to reconcile the share balances to my own records. The only time I am interested in the price is when I am buying or selling.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

livesoft
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by livesoft » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:34 pm

Did anybody see any PROMINENT MESSAGE when they logged into their Vanguard online account stating that "We are experiencing technical difficulties ... blah, blah, blah." I know they are capable of such devices because they use them for many other situations.
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02nz
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by 02nz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:42 pm

Slightly OT but I just took a look at the home page (for personal investors). Almost entire the screen is a very bright red ("Fly under the radar"). It's almost enough to make my head ache. I know red is their main color scheme, but I I would've thought a financial services company would know not to use so much red. Thankfully I moved my accounts away from Vanguard months ago (holding their ETFs elsewhere) so I don't have to look at this or suffer their IT issues any longer.

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teen persuasion
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by teen persuasion » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:43 pm

livesoft wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:34 pm
Did anybody see any PROMINENT MESSAGE when they logged into their Vanguard online account stating that "We are experiencing technical difficulties ... blah, blah, blah." I know they are capable of such devices because they use them for many other situations.
They are definitely not using that on the app, as of a half hour ago. I did login, no problem, but no white box before login that they use whenever the market is closed for a holiday, or upcoming site maintenance, or other site issues.

jdb
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by jdb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:44 pm

bondsr4me wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:04 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:49 pm
It's OK to check your account daily.
Anyone not keeping tabs on their money is irresponsible IMO.
I check my accounts everyday.
Reminds me of two of my favorite Frank Sinatra songs. “Call Me Irresponsible”. And “I Did It My Way”. Each to their own. I’m with Frank.

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dodecahedron
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by dodecahedron » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:51 pm

The Philadelphia Inquirer coverage of yesterday´s VG mess also pointed out that Vanguard had recently revealed technical glitches that had resulted in its ¨socially responsible¨ fund acquiring and holding stocks of companies it had promised not to hold in that fund (e.g., gunmakers.)

https://www.inquirer.com/business/vangu ... 90812.html
Philadelphia Inquirer wrote:Fund analysts say index providers make mistakes like this on occasion, but ESG investors are particularly sensitive to what their funds do and don’t hold. Ben Johnson, head of passive strategy research for fund-tracker Morningstar Inc., said he’d never seen an indexer veer so far from its mandate. “It is very much material, diametrically opposed to the objective of the index and the desires of investors in the fund,” he said.

3-20Characters
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:03 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:28 pm
fru-gal wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:25 am
I check market close prices each day (get an email from Vanguard around 5:15) for just the indices.
Vanguard can be set to email you end of day prices? Maybe not available to peons like myself :-)
Actually to anyone. I'd log in and explain how to do it, but can't log in right now or I'll make things worse... :D

Hint- it's in the alert section. You can get a pre-market email and a post market email. The morning one normally comes around 9:20 and is called "Market Summary: xx/xx/xx before the bell". Don't have a closing one in front of me, but it comes around 5:15PM.
I bet it’s under My Accounts > Account Maintenance. That’s where the other alerts are located. I have a yahoo finance bookmark that has all my funds (etf ticker) and check that whenever. If there’s no etf ticker the fund ticker will update sometime after market close. Also, my spreadsheet pulls in all prices at 6 pm. So I’m alerted out right now.
:D

Dottie57
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:07 pm

bondsr4me wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:04 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:49 pm
I enjoy checking my balances each evening during the 7pm news broadcast. Please don't spoil my fun by lecturing me on the evils of daily balance checking. Just because you don't check daily doesn't mean it is morally wrong for me to check daily.
It's OK to check your account daily.
Anyone not keeping tabs on their money is irresponsible IMO.
I check my accounts everyday.
It is one way to monitor for cyber theft these days.
Just part of good due diligence.
Me too. I just have to ignore bigger swings in the market.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:12 pm

I check almost every day, but only on Quicken. No glitch NAV from Vanguard there. No idea why VG’s website showed funny numbers but their feed to Quicken was okay.

It’s too bad. I might have been allowed to purchase a Rolls Royce according to Livesoft’s Rule if I went by the web site :oops:
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

peppers
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by peppers » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:13 pm

We are able to log in and peruse our accounts.

But, we are on the old mutual fund platform....you know...the one Vanguard keeps asking to migrate away from and go to the "new and improved platform".
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."

3-20Characters
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:23 pm

peppers wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:13 pm
We are able to log in and peruse our accounts.

But, we are on the old mutual fund platform....you know...the one Vanguard keeps asking to migrate away from and go to the "new and improved platform".
Taxable in old mutual funds platform and 2 SEPs in brokerage accounts. I have not experienced any glitches. I didn’t check yesterday until after I read this. All was well. No problems today (logged in just out of curiosity’s sake). But I don’t hold any of the funds mentioned that experienced the problems.

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catalina355
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by catalina355 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:36 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:23 pm
peppers wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:13 pm
We are able to log in and peruse our accounts.

But, we are on the old mutual fund platform....you know...the one Vanguard keeps asking to migrate away from and go to the "new and improved platform".
Taxable in old mutual funds platform and 2 SEPs in brokerage accounts. I have not experienced any glitches. I didn’t check yesterday until after I read this. All was well. No problems today (logged in just out of curiosity’s sake). But I don’t hold any of the funds mentioned that experienced the problems.
Do you hold Total Bond or other bond funds?

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm

catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:36 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:23 pm
peppers wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:13 pm
We are able to log in and peruse our accounts.

But, we are on the old mutual fund platform....you know...the one Vanguard keeps asking to migrate away from and go to the "new and improved platform".
Taxable in old mutual funds platform and 2 SEPs in brokerage accounts. I have not experienced any glitches. I didn’t check yesterday until after I read this. All was well. No problems today (logged in just out of curiosity’s sake). But I don’t hold any of the funds mentioned that experienced the problems.
Do you hold Total Bond or other bond funds?
I hold mostly intermediate treasury with a slice of short term corporate.

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catalina355
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by catalina355 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:51 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:36 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:23 pm
peppers wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:13 pm
We are able to log in and peruse our accounts.

But, we are on the old mutual fund platform....you know...the one Vanguard keeps asking to migrate away from and go to the "new and improved platform".
Taxable in old mutual funds platform and 2 SEPs in brokerage accounts. I have not experienced any glitches. I didn’t check yesterday until after I read this. All was well. No problems today (logged in just out of curiosity’s sake). But I don’t hold any of the funds mentioned that experienced the problems.
Do you hold Total Bond or other bond funds?
I hold mostly intermediate treasury with a slice of short term corporate.
In that case last night your IT fund data was not correct.

3-20Characters
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:07 pm

catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:51 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:36 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:23 pm
peppers wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:13 pm
We are able to log in and peruse our accounts.

But, we are on the old mutual fund platform....you know...the one Vanguard keeps asking to migrate away from and go to the "new and improved platform".
Taxable in old mutual funds platform and 2 SEPs in brokerage accounts. I have not experienced any glitches. I didn’t check yesterday until after I read this. All was well. No problems today (logged in just out of curiosity’s sake). But I don’t hold any of the funds mentioned that experienced the problems.
Do you hold Total Bond or other bond funds?
I hold mostly intermediate treasury with a slice of short term corporate.
In that case last night your IT fund data was not correct.
Well, I’m not sure when it was fixed but I didn’t notice anything majorly wrong. People here were reporting errors of a large magnitude so I expected my totals to be obviously wrong—which they weren’t.

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catalina355
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by catalina355 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:08 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:07 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:51 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:36 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:23 pm


Taxable in old mutual funds platform and 2 SEPs in brokerage accounts. I have not experienced any glitches. I didn’t check yesterday until after I read this. All was well. No problems today (logged in just out of curiosity’s sake). But I don’t hold any of the funds mentioned that experienced the problems.
Do you hold Total Bond or other bond funds?
I hold mostly intermediate treasury with a slice of short term corporate.
In that case last night your IT fund data was not correct.
Well, I’m not sure when it was fixed but I didn’t notice anything majorly wrong. People here were reporting errors of a large magnitude so I expected my totals to be obviously wrong—which they weren’t.
The bond fund errors were smaller in magnitude.

3-20Characters
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:18 pm

catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:08 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:07 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:51 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:36 pm


Do you hold Total Bond or other bond funds?
I hold mostly intermediate treasury with a slice of short term corporate.
In that case last night your IT fund data was not correct.
Well, I’m not sure when it was fixed but I didn’t notice anything majorly wrong. People here were reporting errors of a large magnitude so I expected my totals to be obviously wrong—which they weren’t.
The bond fund errors were smaller in magnitude.
Thanks for the follow up!

myxlplc
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by myxlplc » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:38 pm

I'd like to know how this happened as for some reason the website updated some of my investments, but not all at the end of the trading day. Plus none of my investments outside of Vanguard have been updated for 3 months (though I double check them on their respective native sites)...it's like this website "KIND OF" works and "KIND OF" doesn't. Maybe I "KIND OF" need to take my business elsewhere if this in an on going issue.

JDofAZ
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by JDofAZ » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:01 pm

A blog I follow reported it was an issue with the Consolidated Tape System. I’ll skip comment on their opinion but they had some interesting information, they even link back to this thread.

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/08/s ... yesterday/

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:21 pm

myxlplc wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:38 pm
I'd like to know how this happened as for some reason the website updated some of my investments, but not all at the end of the trading day. Plus none of my investments outside of Vanguard have been updated for 3 months (though I double check them on their respective native sites)...it's like this website "KIND OF" works and "KIND OF" doesn't. Maybe I "KIND OF" need to take my business elsewhere if this in an on going issue.
My family has worked in financial services for decades. Every company has elements of their systems that occasionally KIND OF work. It’s an ongoing issue for everyone. Some companies catch stuff before it “leaves the building.” Some companies catch stuff before it becomes public. Others, not. Anyone in the business has stories. Stories that make you roll your eyes. It’s not just Vanguard. That’s all I can say.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

mindboggling
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by mindboggling » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:56 pm

Thank goodness it was only an "issue" and not a "problem".
In broken mathematics, We estimate our prize, --Emily Dickinson

CoastalWinds
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by CoastalWinds » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:59 pm

Just two minutes from finding out what sort of NAV shenanigans VG has in-store for us today. Get out the AED paddles.

jebmke
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by jebmke » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:08 pm

Conceptually, I'm more concerned with the site being inaccessible during trading hours than the flash NAV in the evening.

Presumably any ACKs that had been mispriced would be corrected but I haven't seen anyone post on this.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

robertbm
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by robertbm » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:23 pm

bondsr4me wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:04 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:49 pm
I enjoy checking my balances each evening during the 7pm news broadcast. Please don't spoil my fun by lecturing me on the evils of daily balance checking. Just because you don't check daily doesn't mean it is morally wrong for me to check daily.
It's OK to check your account daily.
Anyone not keeping tabs on their money is irresponsible IMO.
I check my accounts everyday.
It is one way to monitor for cyber theft these days.
Just part of good due diligence.
Absolutely agree!

fru-gal
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by fru-gal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:23 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:21 pm
myxlplc wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:38 pm
I'd like to know how this happened as for some reason the website updated some of my investments, but not all at the end of the trading day. Plus none of my investments outside of Vanguard have been updated for 3 months (though I double check them on their respective native sites)...it's like this website "KIND OF" works and "KIND OF" doesn't. Maybe I "KIND OF" need to take my business elsewhere if this in an on going issue.
My family has worked in financial services for decades. Every company has elements of their systems that occasionally KIND OF work. It’s an ongoing issue for everyone. Some companies catch stuff before it “leaves the building.” Some companies catch stuff before it becomes public. Others, not. Anyone in the business has stories. Stories that make you roll your eyes. It’s not just Vanguard. That’s all I can say.
I seem to remember a few years ago a Schwab person telling me their code or some of their code was in COBOL...

UpperNwGuy
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by UpperNwGuy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:29 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:18 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:08 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:07 pm
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:51 pm
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm


I hold mostly intermediate treasury with a slice of short term corporate.
In that case last night your IT fund data was not correct.
Well, I’m not sure when it was fixed but I didn’t notice anything majorly wrong. People here were reporting errors of a large magnitude so I expected my totals to be obviously wrong—which they weren’t.
The bond fund errors were smaller in magnitude.
Thanks for the follow up!
I checked last night, and my balances appeared to be correct, so I went to bed happy. I checked in again this morning, just to be sure, and indeed they had changed overnight.

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FIREchief
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by FIREchief » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:33 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
You may be 100% correct. You also may be 90 some percent correct, as there may be legit reasons to check balance daily that I'm not smart enough to think of. Maybe those who check for TLH opportunities? Maybe some who are new to investing and want to acclimate themselves to the daily ebb and flow of investing in equities (as well as the occasional drought or tidal wave)? Maybe some are tracking daily balances as part of an analysis exercise?

That said, I 100% feel that in today's electronic age, those who wish to check their holdings daily should be able to do so!! If it was VG last year, but Fido last month and Schwab next month; it would be different. But that's not what we've seen, is it?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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whodidntante
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by whodidntante » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:08 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:06 am
Fortunately, since VG is a happy, non-profit, charity for the common investor; nobody will get fired for this; right? 8-)
The employees were unaware of the problem because they were all off working their second jobs.

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by pokebowl » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:25 pm

Well nothing appeared out of place this evening when it I logged in. I had put some orders in earlier today to liquidate a few funds, those appear to have went through. Unlike another poster, Vanguard is crediting the exact amount, I did not receive an extra 3 million. :twisted:
Nullius in verba.

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by whodidntante » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:13 pm

Mlm wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:14 pm
I want my money and I want it NOW :?
Vanguard has recently introduced T+V+2+Vw settling time.

T is the day you'd like to place the trade.
V is a variable number of days until the Vanguard website works correctly for placing trades.
2 is, well, 2.
Vw is a variable number of days until the Vanguard website works correctly for withdrawal requests and is not related to emissions scandals.

retire2022
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by retire2022 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:29 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:56 am
I will no longer trust bogleheads’ advice. They tell me to not look at my accounts too often. They tell me not to time the market. Had I looked at my accounts yesterday :shock: I would have had the market timing opportunity of a lifetime! :idea: :oops:

:D
+1 Sheep, bahh, bahh :D

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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by xzhou » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:07 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:13 pm
Vanguard has recently introduced T+V+2+Vw settling time.

T is the day you'd like to place the trade.
V is a variable number of days until the Vanguard website works correctly for placing trades.
2 is, well, 2.
Vw is a variable number of days until the Vanguard website works correctly for withdrawal requests and is not related to emissions scandals.
Upon careful analysis, Vw is actually a function of V when averaged over a moon cycle.

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whodidntante
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by whodidntante » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:16 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
Judging from your avatar, I provide a relatable and adorable reason.

Image

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by SneakyFast1 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:11 pm

Per Vanguard's Official Twitter at 2:22pm it is still not fixed:

Vanguard (@Vanguard_Group) Tweeted:
@DouglasLee1985 Our team is working to resolve this as quickly as possible.
https://twitter.com/Vanguard_Group/stat ... 17538?s=17

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:18 pm

fru-gal wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:23 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:21 pm
myxlplc wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:38 pm
I'd like to know how this happened as for some reason the website updated some of my investments, but not all at the end of the trading day. Plus none of my investments outside of Vanguard have been updated for 3 months (though I double check them on their respective native sites)...it's like this website "KIND OF" works and "KIND OF" doesn't. Maybe I "KIND OF" need to take my business elsewhere if this in an on going issue.
My family has worked in financial services for decades. Every company has elements of their systems that occasionally KIND OF work. It’s an ongoing issue for everyone. Some companies catch stuff before it “leaves the building.” Some companies catch stuff before it becomes public. Others, not. Anyone in the business has stories. Stories that make you roll your eyes. It’s not just Vanguard. That’s all I can say.
I seem to remember a few years ago a Schwab person telling me their code or some of their code was in COBOL...
Much of the mortgage industry still runs on the old Fidelity system devised in the 1980s. It looks and operates like a DOS system.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by Nowizard » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:39 am

Glitches do produce problems at times, but we do live in a world where expectations are very high. This is a trade-off with technology, and the glitches that will inevitably appear at times never seem to be advertised or the time subtracted from technologies "wonderful" advantages. We do choose who we think will have fewer glitches, but we cannot expect perfection.

Tim

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches]

Post by Alchemist » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:22 am

Big Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 pm
Article in today's WSJ said the glitch was the feed from the NYSE itself. So perhaps Vanguard is off the hook on this one?
Not really. Despite this supposedly being a "market wide" issue Vanguard was the only fund company/brokerage that had an issue. My Fidelity accounts and even my Government run TSP accounts did not have this problem.

Every company and website occasionally has problems. But Vanguard has more than the other two biggest competitors combined and by a loooooong margin. I do not understand why so many BH's will bend over backwards in order to excuse Vanguard's mis-behavior either in CS or IT.

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches]

Post by TomatoTomahto » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:40 am

Alchemist wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:22 am
Big Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 pm
Article in today's WSJ said the glitch was the feed from the NYSE itself. So perhaps Vanguard is off the hook on this one?
Not really. Despite this supposedly being a "market wide" issue Vanguard was the only fund company/brokerage that had an issue. My Fidelity accounts and even my Government run TSP accounts did not have this problem.

Every company and website occasionally has problems. But Vanguard has more than the other two biggest competitors combined and by a loooooong margin. I do not understand why so many BH's will bend over backwards in order to excuse Vanguard's mis-behavior either in CS or IT.
Over the years, my only CS problem has been with Fidelity. It cost me $1000 in extra taxes, but it only happened once. I have a mutual fund only account at Vanguard, which might be why I haven’t had any problems there.

My understanding of the glitch is that different firms have different algorithms to handle missing data. Vanguard processes it as received, others do other processing.

I’m not “bending over backwards to excuse Vanguard’s mis-behavior,” any more than I bent over backwards to excuse Fidelity’s mis-behavior (they cut a check for the wrong amount, and I ate the tax consequence because there were no penalties, just an unrequested distribution). What I don’t understand is, if BHs don’t like it, move. Don’t gripe and stay.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches]

Post by Big Dog » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:01 pm

Alchemist wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:22 am

Every company and website occasionally has problems. But Vanguard has more than the other two biggest competitors combined and by a loooooong margin. I do not understand why so many BH's will bend over backwards in order to excuse Vanguard's mis-behavior either in CS or IT.
I don't bend over backwards bcos I just don't care, as the issues don't affect me. I'm a buy-and-hold type investor, and haven't bought/sold an individual stock in ~3+ years, and that was only to cash out my stepped-up basis when my mom passed. I purchase/sell individual funds (to rebalance) maybe once-twice per year, so I can always wait until tomorrow.

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by Angst » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:36 pm

Yesterday afternoon, a limit buy order I'd placed on a Vanguard ETF executed at what proved to be below the closing price, so I was pleased, but I didn't actually know this until late last night when I read my email confirmation and then took a peak at my Balances & Holdings page.

This morning, about an hour ago I took another peak to see what the market was doing today and I see that everything's way down, except bonds, and my ETF is approaching up 3%! "Nice", I say, until I notice that yesterday's purchase is gone. No trace whatsoever in my account, transactions, activity... nada, zilch, poof.

So from my "Notice of a brokerage order execution" email, I utilize this msg:
Vanguard wrote:If you didn't request this order or if you have questions about activity in your account, call us at 800-284-7245.
and eventually get to speak with a human who puts me on hold several times but ultimately is able to get the transaction back into my account.

Vanguard's IT incompetency is not something I dismiss with the "this stuff happens occasionally to all companies" excuse. It's been long-term, it is reflected in errors and inaccuracies in all kinds of reports, both intermittently like this one today and on-going with Vanguard's portfolio reports and such, and it appears to be as ingrained as if Vanguard were some stereotypical old, low-profile and poorly funded/managed govt institution running on a patchwork collection of creaky old hardware platforms and operating systems.

I posted that Vanguard 800 number above as just one more piece to the haphazard puzzle I overgeneralize as "Vanguard IT". Many months ago I called Vanguard with a question and the first thing the robot voice asked me was something like "Which kind of employer-sponsored plan are you calling about? etc..." But I wasn't calling about any such thing, and I mentioned this to the person I eventually spoke with. Today, the same thing happened with this number. Truly dumb and at a minimum, one more sign of the disease afflicting Vanguard and its owners - that'd be us!

I feel at least a bit better off knowing that between Treasury Direct, Fidelity, my 529 and HSA providers and a couple other outside fund companies, about 25% of my financial assets are not held by Vanguard.

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:47 pm

Angst wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:36 pm
...I feel at least a bit better off knowing that between Treasury Direct, Fidelity, my 529 and HSA providers and a couple other outside fund companies, about 25% of my financial assets are not held by Vanguard.
Although the website pales in comparison to Fidelity (the only other management company I'm familiar with), it's important to note that a broken website cannot break your investments. There is no concern that your money will disappear.

See the wiki: Vanguard safety (Custody)
One of the warning signs of the Ponzi schemes conducted by Bernie Madoff and Stanford Financial was that both institutions self-custodied their assets. That is, the same institution was responsible both for managing the assets and for holding them.

By contrast, Vanguard (and every other US-regulated mutual fund company) must custody their assets with a third party. All of the funds managed by Vanguard have their assets held with JPMorgan Chase. JPMorgan is audited by PriceWaterhouseCoopers[2], which provides additional, independent verification that Vanguard's funds hold what they're supposed to.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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