[Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
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FIREchief
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by FIREchief » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:06 am

Fortunately, since VG is a happy, non-profit, charity for the common investor; nobody will get fired for this; right? 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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steve roy
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by steve roy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:12 am

Happily, I look at my accounts only once in a while.

Just now seeing that something was amiss. Glad I missed the coronary.

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ResearchMed
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NY Stock Exchange Problem LATE afternoon? -- Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:01 am

Did a very late afternoon problem at the New York Stock Exchange cause/contribute to this?
(And if so, why was Vanguard affected so much? Were other brokerages?)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/12/a-tradi ... close.html

Maybe Vanguard just couldn't re-adjust to any late corrections, given the sad state of its IT?

RM
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3-20Characters
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:56 am

I will no longer trust bogleheads’ advice. They tell me to not look at my accounts too often. They tell me not to time the market. Had I looked at my accounts yesterday :shock: I would have had the market timing opportunity of a lifetime! :idea: :oops:

:D

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by bayview » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:24 am

I wandered over to this sub-forum when I saw that I never got my nightly TSP daily wrap-up email listing the prices and changes for each fund.

So am I correct on this? --
  • Incorrect pricing wasn't specifically a Vanguard error; other brokerages were affected as well, but
  • Vanguard's error was to publish the incorrect errors, while apparently other brokerages held back
(I realize that TSP isn't a brokerage per se. It's just the other place where we have investments. My nightly email doesn't come from TSP, but the numbers used in the email do come from TSP.)

Edit to add as of 6:10 a.m.: TSP itself still hasn't updated yesterday's COB balances. I applaud them for taking their time.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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RickBoglehead
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am

For a forum dedicated to long term, stay the course, ignore emotional reactions, there sure is a lot of short term, react now, raw emotion on this thread...

There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

Silence Dogood
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by Silence Dogood » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:34 am

CoastalWinds wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:21 pm
It does make you wonder... if one opts out of paper statements, are they entirely dependent on VG’s IT department to ensure they don’t immediately lose all their retirement savings?
I download and save my statements and tax forms.

fru-gal
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by fru-gal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:48 am

fru-gal wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:57 pm
I see my wellesley and wellington affected. vdigx is okay.

You'd think they'd put a note on the website and a recording on the phone.
In the cold light of day, things seem to be normal. I was wrong about vdigx being okay yesterday. It looked okay as it was only down a small amount, but it is down slightly less this morning, so it must have been affected yesterday.

Still no apparent info on the Vanguard site as to what happened.

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by fru-gal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:51 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
For a forum dedicated to long term, stay the course, ignore emotional reactions, there sure is a lot of short term, react now, raw emotion on this thread...

There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about a brokerage company's bad handling of some system failure.

SneakyFast1
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by SneakyFast1 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:53 am

fru-gal wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:51 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
For a forum dedicated to long term, stay the course, ignore emotional reactions, there sure is a lot of short term, react now, raw emotion on this thread...

There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about a brokerage company's bad handling of some system failure.
+1

Nowizard
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by Nowizard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:20 am

There are many reasons to check one's account that are not subject to the comments one knows will be posted regarding threads such as this one. A person may have made a withdrawal and want to see if it has been posted to their MM account, mailed in or wired additional assets, want to update their portfolio with recent distributions, etc. As with all things investing, rational and irrational behavior is determined by individual circumstances rather than generalizations that are only guidelines.

Tim

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catalina355
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by catalina355 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:38 am

fru-gal wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:51 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
For a forum dedicated to long term, stay the course, ignore emotional reactions, there sure is a lot of short term, react now, raw emotion on this thread...

There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about a brokerage company's bad handling of some system failure.
Completely agree!

drzzzzz
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by drzzzzz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:17 am

IS anyone having difficulty getting onto Vanguard's website this morning on a chromebook or laptop? The site is just spinning

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Carlos Danger
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by Carlos Danger » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:23 am

drzzzzz wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:17 am
IS anyone having difficulty getting onto Vanguard's website this morning on a chromebook or laptop? The site is just spinning
Yes. Some trouble. Was able to eventually log in.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:25 am

fru-gal wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:51 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
For a forum dedicated to long term, stay the course, ignore emotional reactions, there sure is a lot of short term, react now, raw emotion on this thread...

There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about a brokerage company's bad handling of some system failure.
Agree. And Vanguard's IT capabilities clearly have issues.

I was referring to those that were trying to log in / check prices constantly, wondering if it would be fixed "now", then again minutes later, then again minutes later... And complaining that in the frenzy they helped create they could not log in. Reminded me of kids on a car trip, repeating "are we there yet" over and over. I saw the issue posted, looked at the market close numbers again, and figured it would be fixed by morning (it was fixed last night). Yes, an issue (should be checking values with tolerances that set off alerts before updating site).

I check market close prices each day (get an email from Vanguard around 5:15) for just the indices.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by SocalLiving » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:28 am

drzzzzz wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:17 am
IS anyone having difficulty getting onto Vanguard's website this morning on a chromebook or laptop? The site is just spinning
Yes. Still can't get in. Neither on laptop or through Vanguard phone app.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am

SocalLiving wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:28 am
drzzzzz wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:17 am
IS anyone having difficulty getting onto Vanguard's website this morning on a chromebook or laptop? The site is just spinning
Yes. Still can't get in. Neither on laptop or through Vanguard phone app.
And, in the vane of what I was saying earlier, how many readers of this thread that have no business to transact today are now trying to log into Vanguard and compound the issue? :D
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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[What is up with Vanguard today?!? 08/13/19]

Post by myxlplc » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:36 am

[Merged posts into here -- moderator oldcomputerguy]

Smoke signals would work faster today (08/13/19) than Vanguards desktop or mobile app...YOU'RE KILLING ME SMALLS!!!!!

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jfn111
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[What is up with Vanguard today?!? 08/13/19]

Post by jfn111 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:39 am

They had some computer glitches and pricing problems yesterday so they are probably still fixing those.

SocalLiving
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by SocalLiving » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:42 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am

And, in the vane of what I was saying earlier, how many readers of this thread that have no business to transact today are now trying to log into Vanguard and compound the issue? :D
I was trying to download some statements I need for our trust meeting this week. I didn't even realise there was a site meltdown until I came here to investigate :happy
I guess i picked a bad day to try and login. Luckily I have a few days before I need the docs. I do wish they would put a notice on their website that they are having technical difficulties.

Independent George
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by Independent George » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:42 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
Normally I'd agree, but I think there is a very good reason to check on your portfolio when a known system-wide glitch has occurred - especially if, for example, you have an auto-deposit scheduled at the same time as the glitch. Even assuming they get it fixed soon (I'm not holding my breath), I still plan on checking my account to make sure there haven't been any errors.

I download monthly statements as soon as they are available - not because I am concerned about the balance, but because I like having a regular paper trail (or pdf trail in this case). If you didn't have those docs saved, I can't blame anyone for wanting to log in and download what they can before it gets eaten by gremlins.

bck63
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Unable to Log Into Vanguard

Post by bck63 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:15 am

Is anyone else having trouble logging into their Vanguard account? I am unable to do so.

LSLover
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Re: Unable to Log Into Vanguard

Post by LSLover » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:16 am

bck63 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:15 am
Is anyone else having trouble logging into their Vanguard account? I am unable to do so.
+1

Direwolf14
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Re: Unable to Log Into Vanguard

Post by Direwolf14 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am

bck63 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:15 am
Is anyone else having trouble logging into their Vanguard account? I am unable to do so.
Cannot login or connect with the mobile app right now.

jdamo
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Re: Unable to Log Into Vanguard

Post by jdamo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:19 am

I could log in but it bogged down and would not respond when doing some MF comparisons. I waited and waited and then gave up.

Bambooman
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Re: Unable to Log Into Vanguard

Post by Bambooman » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:22 am

LSLover wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:16 am
bck63 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:15 am
Is anyone else having trouble logging into their Vanguard account? I am unable to do so.
+1
+1

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by pokebowl » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:43 am

Vanguard just posted the following to social media:
We understand that some clients are having difficulty accessing their accounts on our site. Our team is working to resolve this as quickly as possible. Thank you for your patience.
Nullius in verba.

dru808
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by dru808 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:43 am

App not working but their regular site is a ok on my end.

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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by oldcomputerguy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:45 am

Regular site is working here as of 11:45 AM EDT, can't say about the app since I don't use it.
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bck63
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Re: Unable to Log Into Vanguard

Post by bck63 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:46 am

Direwolf14 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am
bck63 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:15 am
Is anyone else having trouble logging into their Vanguard account? I am unable to do so.
Cannot login or connect with the mobile app right now.
Direwolf14 - I stopped trying log in and just sat down to my supper. Twas a bottle of red whiskey. 😎😎

JIM9310
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by JIM9310 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:47 am

After several attempts, I finally logged on.
Yesterday's total balances were displayed by type: regular, brokerage, IRA, etc.
Could not view balances within individual mutual fund holdings.

EnjoyIt
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by EnjoyIt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:01 am

Was this really a potential buying opportunity?
Would vanguard and other sites honor that purchase at the deflated price?

livesoft
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by livesoft » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:08 am

I suspect a lot of people are trying hard to get their money out of Vanguard and going someplace else. It's a brokerage run!
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by Whakamole » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:28 am

livesoft wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:08 am
I suspect a lot of people are trying hard to get their money out of Vanguard and going someplace else. It's a brokerage run!
Not in this case of course.

If it was a real drop, some of us would be performing TLH, rebalancing, etc.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:34 am

I had submitted a couple of mutual fund buy orders on Sunday. They were executed yesterday as expected. No surprises, but I am a bit relieved that I didn't wait until late Monday to try to submit the orders.

I wish VG would get all these glitches worked out in a jiffy, but so far it isn't a deal-breaker for me.

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catalina355
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by catalina355 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:37 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:25 am
fru-gal wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:51 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
For a forum dedicated to long term, stay the course, ignore emotional reactions, there sure is a lot of short term, react now, raw emotion on this thread...

There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about a brokerage company's bad handling of some system failure.
Agree. And Vanguard's IT capabilities clearly have issues.

I was referring to those that were trying to log in / check prices constantly, wondering if it would be fixed "now", then again minutes later, then again minutes later... And complaining that in the frenzy they helped create they could not log in. Reminded me of kids on a car trip, repeating "are we there yet" over and over. I saw the issue posted, looked at the market close numbers again, and figured it would be fixed by morning (it was fixed last night). Yes, an issue (should be checking values with tolerances that set off alerts before updating site).

I check market close prices each day (get an email from Vanguard around 5:15) for just the indices.
Do you know how many Bogleheads were repeatedly trying to log in last night?

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RickBoglehead
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:42 am

catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:37 am
Do you know how many Bogleheads were repeatedly trying to log in last night?
10,419. :D
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

miles monroe
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by miles monroe » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:46 am

i don't mind that vanguard had a pricing issue -- stuff happens.

i do mind that vanguard totally mismanaged this whole event.

fru-gal
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by fru-gal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:25 am
I check market close prices each day (get an email from Vanguard around 5:15) for just the indices.
Vanguard can be set to email you end of day prices? Maybe not available to peons like myself :-)

Ferdinand2014
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Re: NY Stock Exchange Problem LATE afternoon? -- Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:57 am

ResearchMed wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:01 am
Did a very late afternoon problem at the New York Stock Exchange cause/contribute to this?
(And if so, why was Vanguard affected so much? Were other brokerages?)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/12/a-tradi ... close.html

Maybe Vanguard just couldn't re-adjust to any late corrections, given the sad state of its IT?

RM
I had no issues with my Fidelity or Lincoln Financial accounts.
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett

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catalina355
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by catalina355 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:02 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:42 am
catalina355 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:37 am
Do you know how many Bogleheads were repeatedly trying to log in last night?
10,419. :D
Do you have a reference for that?

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catalina355
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by catalina355 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:02 pm

miles monroe wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:46 am
i don't mind that vanguard had a pricing issue -- stuff happens.

i do mind that vanguard totally mismanaged this whole event.
+1 With some seeing zero balances and some seeing $40 million balances.

jdb
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Re: [Vanguard price glitches, incorrect market info for August 12, 2019]

Post by jdb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:12 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:45 am
For a forum dedicated to long term, stay the course, ignore emotional reactions, there sure is a lot of short term, react now, raw emotion on this thread...

There is zero reason to check your portfolio holdings daily.
+1. I thought reading this thread that I had stumbled upon a day trade forum. But one in which the traders were inexplicably using balanced mutual funds. Understand that there are valid reasons to check daily mutual fund closing prices if you are currently transacting. But assumed most participants like myself and unless transacting currently would have better things to do than obsess over mutual fund closing prices. But so it goes. Good luck.

jebmke
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by jebmke » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:19 pm

jdb wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:12 pm
+1. I thought reading this thread that I had stumbled upon a day trade forum. But one in which the traders were inexplicably using balanced mutual funds. Understand that there are valid reasons to check daily mutual fund closing prices if you are currently transacting. But assumed most participants like myself and unless transacting currently would have better things to do than obsess over mutual fund closing prices. But so it goes. Good luck.
They could probably save themselves some hassling if they just decided to wait and roll everything overnight and update in the morning. I sort of got used to not knowing much when most of our assets were in a fund that only re-priced annually. You sort of get used to not paying attention.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

financeperchance
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Re: [Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by financeperchance » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:27 pm

Excuse me but some of us very much want to check the account balance of our life savings. Call it autism, call it lack of a hobby, day trading, whatever. It should not be hard for the largest mutual fund company in the world to get its IT issues fixed. I see Vanguard burn through a lot of money on Google and Facebook ads -- they should use some of that money to fix their issues first and then aim to increase their AUM

Sarastro
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Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by Sarastro » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:38 pm

[Topic merged into ongoing discussion -- moderator oldcomputerguy]

This morning for over an hour Vanguard.com was down so you could not access your accounts or make any trades while the market was open, I kept trying to get on to simply confirm some trades I made yesterday. For one brief moment I got into my account and saw it was valued at $3 Million more than I actually had in the account. I guess I should have tried to sell everything and see if I could have come away with and extra $3 Million more than was in my accounts....
Seriously, This kind of thing is absurd. Twice now in 6 days of trading, one of which was during a 3% drop in market values, Vanguard investors could not access their accounts online nor make any trades either online or via phone (since no one was answering their phones at Vanguard during these incidents) when the market was open for trading. And at one point they inflated my account value with a phantom $3 Million!!
What gives at Vanguard????

financeperchance
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by financeperchance » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:41 pm

My paranoia is that the opposite will happen, that I log in and my balance is below what it should be. A lawyer friend says the PDF files of your account statements have as much legal validity these days as paper versions, so I am passing along the tip to download those account statements from your Vanguard account as soon as you get the chance.

CoastalWinds
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by CoastalWinds » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:41 pm

Yup, they are having inexcusable problems.

Now, cue the excuses about “how they’ve grown too fast” and “well, if you want low costs, something’s gotta give”.

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DanMahowny
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by DanMahowny » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:45 pm

Why would anyone remain with Vanguard? Why not switch to Schwab? FIdelity?
Funding secured

lukestuckenhymer
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Re: Another Day With Vanguard.Com Down

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:45 pm

"Another day"? Was it down for the entire day? The site is working for me.

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