[Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

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boridi
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[Vanguard ongoing glitches, August 12-13, 2019]

Post by boridi » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:19 pm

[Moved into a new thread from: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?] --admin LadyGeek]

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... view/vasgx

Anyone know why all the LifeStrategy and Target Date funds show very large drops (>10%) today? None of the constituent funds dropped that much.

zvez
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by zvez » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:19 pm

VTWNX dropped $9.37 today (29.5%) drop, guessing/hoping that's a glitch!! :)

livesoft
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by livesoft » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:27 pm

I'm laughing at how Vanguard cannot seem to calculate NAV properly or maybe they don't post it properly. Here's another one from today:
Image

Not only that, VBTLX didn't change NAV, but bond funds had a big day, so I suspect even VBTLX is incorrect so far today.

Of course, another possibility is that the NAVs have been wrong the last week or so and today things got corrected back to the truth. :twisted:
Last edited by livesoft on Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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clip651
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by clip651 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm

I rarely bother to look for daily updates on mutual fund NAVs this early in the evening. Usually there's just no NAV yet, not an incorrect one. Check back in a couole hours, or in the morning.

If that little bit of slowness bothers you, Vangaurd may not be a good fit for you. I haven't bothered to check if other brokers are a bunch quicker. Are they, livesoft?

coacher
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by coacher » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:34 pm

Just called them re: the alleged drop of 40-60% in many of the balanced funds (Wellesley, Target Retirement Income, etc.) today. They said they are "working on it." Apparently several clients have called to be walked off the ledge.

AvidGardener
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Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by AvidGardener » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused

livesoft
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by livesoft » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm

clip651 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm
I haven't bothered to check if other brokers are a bunch quicker. Are they, livesoft?
Fidelity is quicker. I don't have any funds from other vendors.
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crystalbank
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by crystalbank » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:36 pm

Wellington dropped 32% in value ?! This has to be a glitch..
Edit: I see that all balanced funds have dropped..

Logged in to my account and my retirement funds dropped 30% too!

zvez
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by zvez » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:37 pm

LOL, I think very few even hardcore stay the course bogleheads could tolerate a 29% drop in their investment in a single day. Same thing happened last year, fixed a couple hours later.

Nowizard
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Wellington Drop

Post by Nowizard » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:38 pm

Wellington shows a 31% drop today. What happened?

Tim

Mr.BB
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Mr.BB » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:39 pm

I happened to glance at my Morningstar portfolio and saw the same thing! I'll bet Vanguard is having some technical problems. I wondered if they got hacked?
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

wibadger
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by wibadger » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:40 pm

The large drop is showing up on several funds, including vtinx.

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White Coat Investor
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by White Coat Investor » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:40 pm

It's obviously a technical issue and not real. Give it 24 hours and stop looking so closely. :)
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

Mr.BB
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Mr.BB » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:42 pm

Im not too worried. If VWINX dropped 56% the rest of the market would of dropped 70%
But it does grab your attention the first time you see it!
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

Nowizard
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Nowizard » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:42 pm

The vanguard site shows that drop on my accounts, and Yahoo does as well under Finance.

Tim

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SpringMan
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by SpringMan » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Vanguard is not answering their phones. Poor service at flagship level. Many funds screwed up. They have some explaining to do.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

mighty72
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by mighty72 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Merged Wellington Drop here

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Kenkat
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Kenkat » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Sooner or later, active management was going to bite them. :wink:

Emilyjane
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Emilyjane » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:44 pm

Also large drops in Life Strategy funds and Vanguard Balanced Fund. Feels like 2008!
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance", Confucius

delamer
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by delamer » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:46 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:40 pm
It's obviously a technical issue and not real. Give it 24 hours and stop looking so closely. :)
I agree that this is by far the most likely explanation.

yohac
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by yohac » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:48 pm

Obviously a mistake, but such things don't exactly fill you with confidence.

Nowizard
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Nowizard » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm

Technical issue, but not necessarily at Vanguard only since there are other financial sites that post the same drop. Most likely that other sites picked up the Vanguard data, however. Will make you reconsider your risk tolerance for sure. :happy

Tim

mervinj7
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by mervinj7 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm

Emilyjane wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:44 pm
Also large drops in Life Strategy funds and Vanguard Balanced Fund. Feels like 2008!
With this level of IT problems, it feels more like Y2K.

Trader Joe
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Trader Joe » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm

AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
I am not sure. This is interesting. Hopefully this is only a system glitch. I only invest in VFIAX and there are no issues with my fund on the Vanguard website:

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... file/VFIAX

boater07
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What happened to Target Date Funds

Post by boater07 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

My target income fund [VTINX} dropped 46% today. Looks like similar funds also lost big time.
I checked for Div or Splits and see nothing.
This can't be true!!!!

livesoft
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by livesoft » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:51 pm

I find it interesting that someone didn't check numbers before publishing and give a "Not OK, delay changing the numbers before publishing and updating the web site." Or even at least 2 people have to look. I wouldn't want Vanguard to be in control of nuclear launch codes.

It is certainly better to not update than to publish bogus numbers.
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MotoTrojan
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by MotoTrojan » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:52 pm

Is there such thing as limit orders for a mutual fund? I wonder if this triggered anyone... I assume they could undo that on the backend but could cause some trouble.

Gnirk
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Gnirk » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:52 pm

When I saw my TIRA drop by 39% today......

InvMoney
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by InvMoney » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:53 pm

I have Wellington and Wellesley Income in a Fidelity IRA. Checked with a Fidelity Rep about the problem and was told that Vanguard was aware of it and would have it corrected in about an hour.

In reviewing today's returns for all Vanguard funds, it's apparent that only Vanguard balanced funds were affected, and that index balanced funds (Target Date funds, Life Strategy funds, Balanced Index, etc.) as well as managed balanced funds were affected.

delamer
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Re: What happened to Target Date Funds

Post by delamer » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:53 pm

It isn’t true.

Look at this thread: viewtopic.php?p=4693973#p4693973

Bodhi312
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by Bodhi312 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:54 pm

clip651 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm
I rarely bother to look for daily updates on mutual fund NAVs this early in the evening. Usually there's just no NAV yet, not an incorrect one. Check back in a couole hours, or in the morning.

If that little bit of slowness bothers you, Vangaurd may not be a good fit for you. I haven't bothered to check if other brokers are a bunch quicker. Are they, livesoft?
The inability to both calculate NAV properly and to disseminate said NAV in a timely manner is rather concerning; this is the bare minimum an investment manager needs to do for clients, since investors do actually pay fees, low as they might be. The lack of basic sanity checks before posting prices is also concerning.
Last edited by Bodhi312 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jebmke
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by jebmke » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:54 pm

zvez wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:37 pm
LOL, I think very few even hardcore stay the course bogleheads could tolerate a 29% drop in their investment in a single day. Same thing happened last year, fixed a couple hours later.
1987 was pretty close; 22%
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by ResearchMed » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm

Just another reason to keep funds (investments or cash, etc.) at more than one vendor.

At some point, maybe Vanguard, maybe someone else, there could be a glitch that takes some time to straighten out.
That's not a good time to *need* to get some money for something urgent.

(If something similar happens to many/all major financial institutions, then the problem is, well, much bigger anyway...)

On TDAmeritrade, where all of our 403b Vanguard Brokerage window was transferred (clients had no choice), one of the Vanguard funds is showing a loss of -127.60 % in one column. [Yes, that's a *negative*] :shock:

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Raymond
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Raymond » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:55 pm

Morningstar shows a -0.22% drop as of 5:40 p.m. today:

https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vwinx/quote
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bck63
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Vanguard Account Balance

Post by bck63 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:56 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Is anyone having a problem with their Vanguard Account Balance being much lower than it should be?

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Jerry55
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Jerry55 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:56 pm

I also was flummoxed / befuddled when I looked at my Wellesley dropping 56.05%. and Wellington by 31.93%
As one poster noted above, I initially saw it on my Yahoo Finance...checking Vanguard, I know it HAD to be a malfunction
as the stock market was only down 1.5% or so today...

Then I thought, "What Month Is this anyway ?!? " then, knowing it's not one of the quarterly payout times, it must be a mistake.
I knew that if I came here, this conversation would already be underway and sure enough, it is.

I'll feel better when I see the correct numbers, but I'll relax for now, as I DVR and watch the closing bell....it HAD to be wrong.
:greedy :confused :moneybag
Last edited by Jerry55 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fru-gal
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by fru-gal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:57 pm

I see my wellesley and wellington affected. vdigx is okay.

You'd think they'd put a note on the website and a recording on the phone.

bck63
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Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Post by bck63 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:58 pm

Disregard. Some of the target date funds are having pricing issues. Will be fixed shortly per customer service.

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ScooterBob
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by ScooterBob » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:58 pm

This actually is a good time to check your balances at Vanguard just to see how you "feel" about the drop that is listed. Of course this is a glitch and will be fixed but it is also sort of a gut check to see if the number you see on your balances truly reflects your risk tolerance. Down 30% in one day- could really happen sometime.... could you live with that? Just a thought....

Bob

Bodhi312
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Bodhi312 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:59 pm

Nowizard wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm
Technical issue, but not necessarily at Vanguard only since there are other financial sites that post the same drop. Most likely that other sites picked up the Vanguard data, however. Will make you reconsider your risk tolerance for sure. :happy

Tim
The prices other sites are posting for the affected funds originate at Vanguard.

zvez
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Re: [Why did my fund suddenly drop in value?]

Post by zvez » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:00 pm

yeah but that was the whole market, we're talking about a fund that is 50% bonds. That would equate to a market drop of almost 60%!

Trader Joe
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Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Post by Trader Joe » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:02 pm

bck63 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:56 pm
Is anyone having a problem with their Vanguard Account Balance being much lower than it should be?
No, I have no issues on my end.

dalbright
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by dalbright » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:03 pm

Black Swan!

Hotshot035
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Hotshot035 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:06 pm

My mom has vanguard 2020 fund and market watch and vanguards website is showing -29 loss. She is freaking out right now. Hopefully this is just an error.
Last edited by Hotshot035 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

H-Town
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by H-Town » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:07 pm

AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
Don't look...

boogiehead
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by boogiehead » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:11 pm

fru-gal wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:57 pm
I see my wellesley and wellington affected. vdigx is okay.

You'd think they'd put a note on the website and a recording on the phone.
+1..... its like the most basic means to calm nerves and reduce the volume of calls, they really need to revamp the IT team :oops:

BespokeBiker
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Re: Vanguard Account Balance

Post by BespokeBiker » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:12 pm

at 4:10 pm Pacific -- VANG site login is currently hanging. Obviously either too much traffic on their servers, or the VANG website is undergoing on-the-fly maintenance

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Mlm
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by Mlm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:14 pm

I want my money and I want it NOW :?

dalbright
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by dalbright » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:16 pm

Fixed now FWIW. Up .04%

louiethelilac
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Re: Wellesley 56.05% drop today

Post by louiethelilac » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:17 pm

AvidGardener wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm
What happened?!? Wellesley VWIAX was around $64.96 per share. I just looked, it's $28.62, losing $36.50 per share today. A 56.05% drop :confused
Time to rebalance into Vanguard balanced funds before they catch the error

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