Why Is Cord Not Included?

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drawpoker
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Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by drawpoker » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:15 pm

Just ordered a replacement kitchen range/stove. 1st time for doing this purchase in decades. ( Went with Whirlpool, since they get very high ratings, and that was the brand of the existing one that lasted and performed well for 20+ years.)

In checking over the specs I noticed the electrical cord is not included. Huh, what? So now I gotta shell out approx $25 or so and purchase the electric cord separately the salesman says. :x

Why is this? They sell toaster ovens, microwaves, and most all other kitchen appliances with the cord included. Is this something new with kitchen stove/ranges now? Or unique to Whirlpool?

Anyone know...... :?:

brad.clarkston
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by brad.clarkston » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:27 pm

That's pretty standard nowadays with so many custom built kitchen's - 110v vs. 220v - smart voltage, etc.

Then you get into the kitchen layout - do you want it built into the wall or free standing ?

sport
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by sport » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:27 pm

Perhaps there are different connectors to the outlet and the stove manufacturer does not know which one(s) you have.

curmudgeon
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by curmudgeon » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:53 pm

Potentially you could remove the cord from the old range and use that. Bottom line is that there are multiple forms for 220v plugs; and the manufacturer doesn't know which one you will have in your wall outlet.

--------
edited to add:
There are also different local building code requirements - some jurisdictions may require the range to be hard-wired, or other odd stuff.
Last edited by curmudgeon on Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MP123
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by MP123 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:21 pm

Electric or gas?

Either way there are several different plug types especially with 50 amp circuits for electric stoves.

As mentioned you may be able to reuse the old one.

Katietsu
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by Katietsu » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:25 pm

Same thing for an electric dryer. Cord is always separate.

vasaver
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by vasaver » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:40 pm

Did you order from Costco? I just had a Range, Dishwasher and Fridge installed and they included all of the electric/water cables/hoses.

Big Dog
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by Big Dog » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:41 pm

local codes could also be different, as some cities may allow a plug into a receptacle while others might require the appliance be hardwired.

bhsince87
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by bhsince87 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:58 pm

This is just my personal opinion, but I think it's mostly to do with liability issues.

Local codes vary across the country, and when you're dealing with 240 volt appliances, fire is a real risk.

So the manufacturers are hoping you will use a local expert for installation. Or at least do some serious research before you hook it up. These things aren't really "plug and play".

And of course, there's profit motive too.
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erictiger12
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by erictiger12 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:05 pm

For electric range (220v), most are hardwired. So no cord is needed.

suemarkp
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by suemarkp » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:19 pm

I think the best answer is the plug type. Houses built before sometime in the 1990's had 3 prong plugs for dryers and ranges. Then, the NEC changed and required a separate grounding wire so the receptacles became 4 prong. There are lots of older houses, so no one will know which plug type you need.

I usually move it from the old one to the new unless it has a problem. These cords rarely experience wear unless you're always pulling the stove out.
Mark | Kent, WA

RudyS
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by RudyS » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:46 am

Disposer came without cord. Rather than buy the kit, I switched the old one.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:49 am

Back when I worked for Digital Equipment (DEC), there was a saying that labels and cables made products late. Perhaps that's part of it. Make the end user get his own.
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DaftInvestor
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by DaftInvestor » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:54 am

erictiger12 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:05 pm
For electric range (220v), most are hardwired. So no cord is needed.
Last three houses I had were equipped with the 220V/50A outlet. {Edit Add: Just saw post below - perhaps this is a state-dependent code}
I learned this (Electric Ranges don't come with cords) with my first purchase about 25 years ago - always been like that as far as I know. Have used old plug in the past when buying a new stove.

OP: looks like Home Depot (just looked online) has them for $16.
Last edited by DaftInvestor on Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

jebmke
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by jebmke » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:54 am

Big Dog wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:41 pm
local codes could also be different, as some cities may allow a plug into a receptacle while others might require the appliance be hardwired.
Yes; we have moved a lot and sometimes have to swap out a plug-end cord for a hardwired one -- or vice versa. When we were moving a lot I kept all the cords just in case.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:12 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:49 am
Back when I worked for Digital Equipment (DEC), there was a saying that labels and cables made products late. Perhaps that's part of it. Make the end user get his own.
OT, but that’s the one company I wish that I had worked for. Instead of yelling at kids to get off my lawn, I yell at young techies that VMS is a better OS than anything they’ve ever worked on :D
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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fizxman
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by fizxman » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:13 am

I delivered furniture and appliances over the summers during college and we would just pull the old one off and use it. It's standard for ranges and dryers not to come with power cords but they are easy to swap out.

mmmodem
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by mmmodem » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:21 am

As already said, it's because some homes are wired with the 3 prong and some with the 4 prong. You can easily look up the actual NEMA specifications. It would be costly and wasteful to include both cord types.

The real question you should ask is why you can't detach the old cord and use it on the new stove? The store refuses to install with an old cord.

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Nate79
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by Nate79 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:35 am

Be very careful when buying appliance and having them install it as they often require you to buy the cord with the install and do not allow to use the old cord or to even provide your own newly purchased one. They don't want to take the liability.

Smoke
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by Smoke » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:38 am

mmmodem wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:21 am
As already said, it's because some homes are wired with the 3 prong and some with the 4 prong. You can easily look up the actual NEMA specifications. It would be costly and wasteful to include both cord types.

The real question you should ask is why you can't detach the old cord and use it on the new stove? The store refuses to install with an old cord.
+1

To OP
Mine is hardwired, think of it this way, if they did include a cable, the stove would be $25 more expensive (nothing is free)
If you paid $25 more and the cable you got was the wrong one, or not needed hardwired or use existing one.
How upset would you be to have paid more for something you can't use?
Arguing for the sake of arguing is something I am not going to engage in.

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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by nisiprius » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:03 am

As mention of DEC bought to mind... when I was buying gear, back in the minicomputer days, when you were actually negotiating a complex $60,000 purchase with a salesperson, I learned to write in a condition: "It is understood that the agreed price includes all needed cables, including any not specifically listed by name as line items." That usually motivated the salesperson to double-check.
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drawpoker
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by drawpoker » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:28 pm

Thanks to all for the replies, it all makes sense, given that I cannot pull the stove out from the wall to check to see just what type wiring is there (too heavy) I can partially see the back of my dryer, however, and that appears to be the normal, super-thick looking thing-y cord for a standard, 220volt outlet. Have high hopes the stove will turn out to the be same (?)

Interestingly, the sales staff at the store (Sears Hometown outlet) was speculating on 3 prong vs 4 prong, hard-wired or not, issues as well. Mainly because Whirlpool stove I am replacing is circa 1979 model :shock: , originally put in by the builder.

Yes, forty years :sharebeer but real story is: I bought the house from a rather strange duck who never used either the stove or dishwasher for the 13 years of her ownership. So, the stove did not technically "last" for 40 years, but rather 26.

Which I consider to be pretty darn good for longevity. :D

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David Jay
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by David Jay » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:25 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:12 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:49 am
Back when I worked for Digital Equipment (DEC), there was a saying that labels and cables made products late. Perhaps that's part of it. Make the end user get his own.
OT, but that’s the one company I wish that I had worked for. Instead of yelling at kids to get off my lawn, I yell at young techies that VMS is a better OS than anything they’ve ever worked on :D
OK, now you’ve opened the door. I was a VMS sysmgr in the day. When Cutler left and went to MS, the joke was:
V++ M++ S++ = W N T
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barnaclebob
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:32 pm

erictiger12 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:05 pm
For electric range (220v), most are hardwired. So no cord is needed.
I dont think this is true or its very local if it is in your area. I think however that built in wall ovens might mostly be hardwired.

suemarkp
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by suemarkp » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:26 pm

If the outlet was installed correctly, you should be able to remove the bottom drawer of the range and reach way back to pull the plug out. Then you can see 3 prong vs 4. If house was built in 1979 then it is probably 3 prong unless it's a mobile home.
Mark | Kent, WA

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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:57 pm

David Jay wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:25 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:12 am
OT, but that’s the one company I wish that I had worked for. Instead of yelling at kids to get off my lawn, I yell at young techies that VMS is a better OS than anything they’ve ever worked on :D
OK, now you’ve opened the door. I was a VMS sysmgr in the day. When Cutler left and went to MS, the joke was:
V++ M++ S++ = W N T
Couldn't agree more. As a software architect/engineer who worked on the system internals of VMS, WinNT and other competitive operating systems. I can say without a doubt that while adequate, VMS was a bloated resource hog. Elegant it was not The worst thing that ever happened to Windows was the hiring of Cutler and the polluting of WinNT with VMS-like internals and structures. Instead of WinNT (New Technology), they should have called it WinKF (Kludge Fest).

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:18 am

And that is what makes horse races.
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by Yooper16 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:16 am

suemarkp wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:19 pm
I think the best answer is the plug type. Houses built before sometime in the 1990's had 3 prong plugs for dryers and ranges. Then, the NEC changed and required a separate grounding wire so the receptacles became 4 prong. There are lots of older houses, so no one will know which plug type you need.

I usually move it from the old one to the new unless it has a problem. These cords rarely experience wear unless you're always pulling the stove out.
This is the answer.

My last gig before retirement included working at a local hardware. Numerous times we had people come in for a new cord for their dryer/range only to not know the configuration of their receptacle. Often you would find "range" receptacles for dryers, which will work for dryers but the reverse is not good due to amperage.

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drawpoker
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by drawpoker » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:15 pm

U P D A T E

The guys finally showed up today and hauled out the old stove. Sure enough, the outlet is a 3-prong affair, just as some of you speculated here, based on the age of the house.

Now, after reading about changes to codes over the years, should I just buy another 3-prong cord for the new stove, or call in an electrician to convert it over to the 4-prong thing-y gizmo..... :? Is is considered safe enough to stick with the 3-prong deal?????

mpnret
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by mpnret » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:12 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:15 pm
U P D A T E

The guys finally showed up today and hauled out the old stove. Sure enough, the outlet is a 3-prong affair, just as some of you speculated here, based on the age of the house.

Now, after reading about changes to codes over the years, should I just buy another 3-prong cord for the new stove, or call in an electrician to convert it over to the 4-prong thing-y gizmo..... :? Is is considered safe enough to stick with the 3-prong deal?????
Having a 3-prong outlet almost always means the wire going from the outlet to the breaker panel has 3 conductors. Converting to a 4-prong outlet would require pulling a new wire with 4 conductors from the outlet to the breaker panel. This could get expensive. I would just stick with the 3-prong. That's what I did.

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drawpoker
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by drawpoker » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:27 pm

mpnret wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Converting to a 4-prong outlet would require pulling a new wire with 4 conductors from the outlet to the breaker panel. This could get expensive.......
Yikes.

The existing wire, now that I can see clearly, disappears behind the lower cabinets, then, I guess, continues behind the walls of various rooms, all the way to the breaker panel, which is about 35-40 feet distance.

Tearing out the kitchen cabinets - knocking holes in the walls to do this :shock: Not happening with this old lady :!:

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MP123
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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by MP123 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:29 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:27 pm
mpnret wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Converting to a 4-prong outlet would require pulling a new wire with 4 conductors from the outlet to the breaker panel. This could get expensive.......
Yikes.

The existing wire, now that I can see clearly, disappears behind the lower cabinets, then, I guess, continues behind the walls of various rooms, all the way to the breaker panel, which is about 35-40 feet distance.

Tearing out the kitchen cabinets - knocking holes in the walls to do this :shock: Not happening with this old lady :!:
I'd leave it as is and just enjoy your new stove.

But that's the reason the cord comes separately. :happy

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Re: Why Is Cord Not Included?

Post by 123 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:46 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:28 pm
...Yes, forty years :sharebeer but real story is: I bought the house from a rather strange duck who never used either the stove or dishwasher for the 13 years of her ownership....
We remodeled a house that had been lived in by an Asian family. The 30+ year old built-in pink wall oven was in mint condition when we started our remodel (okay it had a little bit of rust)). It had apparently never been used. Asian cooking greatly relies on stir fry and so they (quite reasonably) never had any use for the oven. They had an extraordinarily powerful hood vent though.

I once lived in an apartment for over ten years and only used the dishwasher twice (mostly out of curiosity). It made a lot of noise and it was much faster to just manually wash my own dishes.
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