Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

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international001
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by international001 » Fri May 31, 2019 5:03 pm

I didn't get the important info. How were those studies controlled (i.e. causality and not correlation)? And how would you avoid ethical implications of doing such a control? (perhaps a natural experiment some place?)

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by CyclingDuo » Fri May 31, 2019 6:12 pm

international001 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:03 pm
I didn't get the important info. How were those studies controlled (i.e. causality and not correlation)? And how would you avoid ethical implications of doing such a control? (perhaps a natural experiment some place?)
Did you read the paper?
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cashheavy18
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by cashheavy18 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:02 pm

I just asked this question to my 18 year old college aged child (whose first job at age 16 was in retail):

Yes! Why?

- Teaches you how to work with people. Some whom you may not always like
- You learn what interviewing is all about, good to have some practice before a position that will really count
- It's a nice feeling to earn your own money
- It's a formative, quintessential American experience
- Learn about taxes and investing

epilnk
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by epilnk » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:28 pm

Starfish wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:04 pm

First thing I saw when I came to US was that all graduate students are Asian or, sometimes, Eastern European, while undergraduate students are mostly Americans which, among other things, have to balance a job with studies and perform badly in the class (I was a TA).
As I mention on another topic, guess who landed pretty much all the well paying jobs? The kids who worked in MacDonald's or the foreigners who never worked in their life?
I live in an education focused college town with a lot of Asian immigrants. We are white, our sons are latino (adopted). As it happens, both of my sons are high achievers with high achieving friend groups that are more than 50% Asian. Several of these Asian friends have part time jobs, it's not at all uncommon.

My kids have fully funded 529 plans; neither needs to work in high school. My older son will not only graduate from college debt free, he chose a public university that will leave him money to partly fund an MBA (his current plan).

This kid is impressive; I've always considered him born for success and his performance in high school certainly confirmed that. His boss agrees. I saw him grow so much in his job; she just saw an ideal employee who could tackle anything she threw at him. His salary was all for spending and entertainment, and he had a great time in high school. He is so ready for college. His advantageous financial situation means he can take unpaid internships, and he got the training and experience during high school that will ensure that he performs at a high level.
Don't get me wrong, I know there are a lot of people who defeated all the adversity and raised very high (probably a lot of them here, on BH). But they are EXCEPTIONAL. I might not be, my kid maybe is not. The American mentality is very tough and created a great and very competitive country, but I don't think any of you wants to sacrifice your kids to it. For my kid it's not gonna be a swim or sunk situation, I am just going to do my best to maximize his potential.
I'm probably one of those people. Low income background, horrible public school, first in family to attend college (selected sight unseen based only on aid package), went on to Ivy League PhD. I consider my high school job to be an important formative experience.

But things are different now. The stress levels are so much higher and more and more kids are entering college unprepared or unable to handle it. Colleges report a mental health epidemic on campuses. According to a recent interview (Terri Gross' Fresh Air, interviewing authors of The Stressed Years of Their Lives), 25% of kids now arrive on campus on neuropsychological prescription medications. Schools struggle to keep up with the demand for counseling. Students are struggling less because the academic material is so hard, and more because managing pressure and demands is so hard.

My younger son has top grades but doesn't have his brother's maturity and he spends a bit too much time studying. I am much less confident he will be prepared when he leaves for college. We think he could benefit from a job.

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T-Wrench
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by T-Wrench » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:51 pm

My kids are too young to be sent to work, so I'll answer with my own experience.

Yes, it's perfectly fine for the kid to get a job.

I had earned money mowing lawns before I was 16. When I turned 16, I got a job at a theme park where I worked during the weekends. I studied through the week. I didn't pursue any extracurricular activities in high school other than my job. I got 3 scholarships; my job didn't hurt my academic success. The lack of extracurriculars did hurt me in a small way: a friend of mine got into one of the schools I applied to and let me know that my lack of any high school sports was probably a reason I didn't get in despite having higher grades.

High school job: I learned a great deal about people, taxes, the importance of keeping your nose clean (two people I knew got caught stealing from the registers and I kept my job because of the reputation I'd earned), showing up to work on time, and dealing directly with unhappy/drunk/weird customers. I bought my own car with that money and covered gas, tag, and maintenance (thankful to be on parent's insurance). I worked on my own car because I could afford that, compared to taking it into a shop; I still use those skills and help other people with them.

I kept working through undergrad (around 10 hours per week during the school year, 40+ during the summers). It helped defray costs that my scholarships didn't cover and helped me be more independent- if I wanted to go out with friends, I knew I could afford to. Despite holding a job, I still gave time to working in a research lab, volunteering, and joining different groups related to my career interests. I kept my scholarships throughout the 4 years and got out debt-free, so it didn't hurt my studies then. I didn't get into medical school (didn't have the 3.6+ GPA that was common at the time), but if I wasn't working, I wouldn't have been able to pay the application fees, either.

Working a low-paying job won't kill the kid. In my experience, it did make things perfectly clear: I will continue to study hard so that I don't have to put up with this crap all my life (a couple angry customers taking their frustrations out on you will do that).

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by CyclingDuo » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:33 pm

T-Wrench wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:51 pm
Working a low-paying job won't kill the kid. In my experience, it did make things perfectly clear: I will continue to study hard so that I don't have to put up with this crap all my life (a couple angry customers taking their frustrations out on you will do that).
Utilizing the Roth IRA for some of the money made from summer jobs during high school and college for your kids will make up for any perceived anger/frustrations from customers they may have faced as they were welcomed to the real world of working for a buck. :greedy

Turn A Summer Job Into A $120,660 Tax-Free Retirement Windfall

https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-fund ... yptr=yahoo
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WestUniversity
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by WestUniversity » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:38 pm

In high school we didn’t expect our kids to work. Our position was their job was being a student. That said however they both ended up working anyway.

The same thing happened in college. The difference there however was, as we told them, that we were providing enough money for an education, not a lifestyle. They both however wanted more spending money so they both decided to work...

tibbitts
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by tibbitts » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:21 pm

I would say that some work in summers is desirable, although it can be difficult to find a job that doesn't interfere with other family activities. Often when someone is hired just for a summer it's not possible to take a couple of weeks off for a family vacation.

balbrec2
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by balbrec2 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:53 am

Better grades are more important than any savings they may accumulate.
Said saving would be used against them when applying for financial aid If they are going to college.
The money ends up hurting while higher grades may earn them a scholarship. Then
again you have to know what kind of student you have also. Are they high achievers ?
Take it from there.

theplayer11
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by theplayer11 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:59 am

yes, the sooner kids start to work the better. Responsibility, finances, work ethic..all positives. Parents handing their teenage kids spending money only generates problems IMO

Chadnudj
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by Chadnudj » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:33 am

miamivice wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:59 pm
While I suppose a minimum wage job is an exciting thing when one is 16, it will be distracting from studying, extra curricular activities, and the like. From my perspective, strong performance in school (both high school and college) strongly correlates to future earnings, and doing well at school is fundamental to future financial security.

Based on that, I'd be really hesitant to encourage my children to work a minimum wage job in high school, or even college for that matter, if it at all limited the time they spent doing homework or otherwise impacted their learning.
Will it, though?

Everyone is different, obviously, but I know my grades/studies were BETTER when I was busier with more extracurriculars/working tons of hours at my part time jobs in high school/college. Because my time was limited, I'd focus on my studies when I had the free time, rather than goof off/procrastinate.

And in college, they were explicitly called work-study jobs for a reason -- they afforded you time to study WHILE on the clock. I set up meeting rooms at the student union and was "on-call" if meetings needed extra chairs/tables, etc., but that meant a LOT of time spent studying as once rooms were set up, there wasn't much more to do.

fru-gal
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by fru-gal » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:35 am

Just in the summer. Not during the school year, where it would take away time much better devoted to studying.

I am astounded by the comments about not hiring a graduate who did not have low level job experience. That is a "qualification" that never crossed my mind nor did I ever hear it mentioned in hiring discussions. If somebody has studied their heads off getting through undergrad and maybe grad school, I think they qed have a good work ethic. Besides, I never saw a resume for a professional position that listed flipping burgers at Burger King, even if the person had done that.

fru-gal
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by fru-gal » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:37 am

Chadnudj wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:33 am
miamivice wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:59 pm
While I suppose a minimum wage job is an exciting thing when one is 16, it will be distracting from studying, extra curricular activities, and the like. From my perspective, strong performance in school (both high school and college) strongly correlates to future earnings, and doing well at school is fundamental to future financial security.

Based on that, I'd be really hesitant to encourage my children to work a minimum wage job in high school, or even college for that matter, if it at all limited the time they spent doing homework or otherwise impacted their learning.
Will it, though?

Everyone is different, obviously, but I know my grades/studies were BETTER when I was busier with more extracurriculars/working tons of hours at my part time jobs in high school/college. Because my time was limited, I'd focus on my studies when I had the free time, rather than goof off/procrastinate.

And in college, they were explicitly called work-study jobs for a reason -- they afforded you time to study WHILE on the clock. I set up meeting rooms at the student union and was "on-call" if meetings needed extra chairs/tables, etc., but that meant a LOT of time spent studying as once rooms were set up, there wasn't much more to do.
That assumes your college studies did not demand 100% of your free time. In other words, not that demanding,

Work study programs are for the student to gain experience in their field, not set up chairs etc.

DrivingFun
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by DrivingFun » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:41 am

theplayer11 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:59 am
yes, the sooner kids start to work the better. Responsibility, finances, work ethic..all positives. Parents handing their teenage kids spending money only generates problems IMO
There is no one size fits all. 5 pages of anecdotal evidence, all of it perfectly valid. I happen to agree with you and throw "humility" to your list as well. I feel it's especially important for kids of higher socioeconomic families. I might be a well educated, high-ish salary IT worker these days, but I will never forget doing manual labor side by side with some really great lower socioeconomic folks. The friendships I've made and lessons learned are unlike anything I ever experienced in my white collar career. As with anything else in life, the more well rounded of an individual you are the better.

A lot of the arguments here are in regard to taking a path that will maximize potential earning power. I would say that there is so much more to life than how much money you'll be able to leave when you kick off.

Just my 0.02c :beer

mak1277
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by mak1277 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:50 am

fru-gal wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:37 am
Chadnudj wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:33 am
miamivice wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:59 pm
While I suppose a minimum wage job is an exciting thing when one is 16, it will be distracting from studying, extra curricular activities, and the like. From my perspective, strong performance in school (both high school and college) strongly correlates to future earnings, and doing well at school is fundamental to future financial security.

Based on that, I'd be really hesitant to encourage my children to work a minimum wage job in high school, or even college for that matter, if it at all limited the time they spent doing homework or otherwise impacted their learning.
Will it, though?

Everyone is different, obviously, but I know my grades/studies were BETTER when I was busier with more extracurriculars/working tons of hours at my part time jobs in high school/college. Because my time was limited, I'd focus on my studies when I had the free time, rather than goof off/procrastinate.

And in college, they were explicitly called work-study jobs for a reason -- they afforded you time to study WHILE on the clock. I set up meeting rooms at the student union and was "on-call" if meetings needed extra chairs/tables, etc., but that meant a LOT of time spent studying as once rooms were set up, there wasn't much more to do.
That assumes your college studies did not demand 100% of your free time. In other words, not that demanding,

Work study programs are for the student to gain experience in their field, not set up chairs etc.
I went to a highly respected university and I don't know a single person whose studies demanded 100% of their free time.

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by CyclingDuo » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:03 am

balbrec2 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:53 am
Better grades are more important than any savings they may accumulate.
Said saving would be used against them when applying for financial aid If they are going to college.
The money ends up hurting while higher grades may earn them a scholarship. Then
again you have to know what kind of student you have also. Are they high achievers ?
Take it from there.
You should read Mark Kantrowitz's excellent book Secrets to Winning a Scholarship. Parents tend to overestimate the odds of winning decent merit based scholarships, and underestimate needs based financial aid. There is a very small penalty to pay for having already established funds from both the student and the parents when it comes to scholarships.

In retrospect, and as we have mentioned throughout this thread, we are still very glad our children worked during the summers and holiday breaks in high school and in college, as well as the experience they received via their paid internships that they held during college. The experience. The money saved. The establishment of their Roth IRA's. The cash flow contributions they made to their college costs. All were well worth it.

In addition, we are glad we established a college savings fund for them as soon as they were born and fully funded it over the years so that their college costs were covered. That was our plan from the get go. Financial planning that includes establishing goals and meeting them allowed our family to educate our children and have them enter the work force debt free.

This article includes working in high school in their top 4 ways to earn a scholarship. GPA and standardized test scores are important as well - especially when combined with ways a student can stand out among their peers. The entire package is important. Both work experience and grades are part of the package.

4 Ways to Increase Odds of Winning College Scholarships

https://www.usnews.com/education/schola ... holarships
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

stoptothink
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by stoptothink » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 am

fru-gal wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:35 am

I am astounded by the comments about not hiring a graduate who did not have low level job experience. That is a "qualification" that never crossed my mind nor did I ever hear it mentioned in hiring discussions. If somebody has studied their heads off getting through undergrad and maybe grad school, I think they qed have a good work ethic. Besides, I never saw a resume for a professional position that listed flipping burgers at Burger King, even if the person had done that.
I've hired many people who had zero prior work experience, without fail, every single one of them needed some "seasoning" before they could successfully exist in a corporate environment. In my experience also, the more the education before the first job, the more clueless. And I don't want to say the word "entitlement" for those who have never worked, but yeah: entitlement. My job is to direct a team that produces, not teach young adults (or in some cases, ~30yr old newly minted STEM PhDs) how the real world works. You are taking a calculated risk when hiring; my "hit rate" for people right out of school with no experience has been dramatically lower than those who come with some real world workforce experience. "Studying your head off" in academia and producing in a corporate environment are very different things, and IMO that disconnect is getting larger very fast.

ncbill
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by ncbill » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:39 pm

CyclingDuo wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:03 am
balbrec2 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:53 am
Better grades are more important than any savings they may accumulate.
Said saving would be used against them when applying for financial aid If they are going to college.
The money ends up hurting while higher grades may earn them a scholarship. Then
again you have to know what kind of student you have also. Are they high achievers ?
Take it from there.
You should read Mark Kantrowitz's excellent book Secrets to Winning a Scholarship. Parents tend to overestimate the odds of winning decent merit based scholarships, and underestimate needs based financial aid. There is a very small penalty to pay for having already established funds from both the student and the parents when it comes to scholarships.

In retrospect, and as we have mentioned throughout this thread, we are still very glad our children worked during the summers and holiday breaks in high school and in college, as well as the experience they received via their paid internships that they held during college. The experience. The money saved. The establishment of their Roth IRA's. The cash flow contributions they made to their college costs. All were well worth it.

In addition, we are glad we established a college savings fund for them as soon as they were born and fully funded it over the years so that their college costs were covered. That was our plan from the get go. Financial planning that includes establishing goals and meeting them allowed our family to educate our children and have them enter the work force debt free.

This article includes working in high school in their top 4 ways to earn a scholarship. GPA and standardized test scores are important as well - especially when combined with ways a student can stand out among their peers. The entire package is important. Both work experience and grades are part of the package.

4 Ways to Increase Odds of Winning College Scholarships

https://www.usnews.com/education/schola ... holarships
IMHO the best kept secret for paying for college is the educational aid available from the U.S. military.

A ROTC scholarship might be the average college student's best realistic chance at a "full" scholarship...pays tuition/fees/book allowance plus monthly stipend. Many schools also waive 50 to 100% of room/board charges for those recipients as well. (2 & 3 year scholarships are available to those already enrolled.)

And there are other options to use the military to pay for college, e.g. in many states joining the National Guard covers tuition/fees at in-state public schools.

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beyou
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by beyou » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:54 pm

One kid played a varsity sport and took all AP courses in HS, studying past midnight regularly. Never discussed a job. He later decided on his own he wanted to work and make money (during college, summer and part time during semester). Other kid sat and played video games in HS. Lack of money did not influence him to get a job, he was content to not have a car or other extras. He valued his free time more than money. I beg him to look for work but he would rather spend less than earn more.

There is only so much you can do to force the issue. I worked without my parents forcing me to do so, when I was a kid, and one of my kids got my work ethic, other did not.

TimTheEnchanter
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by TimTheEnchanter » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:08 pm

My daughter just finished high school and she worked on and off, cat sitting, odd jobs and the farmers market when needed. I think it is a great experience for kids to learn this as early as possible. I would encourage her to do more in the summer but she is not that keen before going to college.

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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by ryanayd » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:57 pm

Kids should absolutely be encouraged to work in high school in college. It teaches them responsibility and learning that they need to work for what they get. School is not too difficult that a kid can't work a part-time job. I worked in both high school and college and it taught me responsibility and how to manage money at an early age.

If you want your kids partying on the weekends then don't let them work. Otherwise, you can teach them responsibility.

CoastalWinds
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Re: Should I encourage my kids to work in high school/college?

Post by CoastalWinds » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:27 pm

During summer yes. During school year no.

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