Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

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4th and Inches
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Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by 4th and Inches » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:12 pm

I currently have a 30-year fixed mortgage at 3.875% with a $383,000 balance and 326 payments (27 years, 2 months) left. Monthly payment is $1901.67. House is worth about $700,000 and is a single-family residence. State of residence is Colorado.

Given the current rate environment and my requirements below are there are any viable refinance options that make sense being offered in the market right now? What lenders? I have looked, but nothing seems to be worth the trouble. What rate would you consider a refinance given the stipulations below?

• MUST be a no-cost refinance. Higher rates normally apply when closing costs get rolled in. This is a definite headwind to getting a lower rate to make it worth doing.
• I will not pay points.
• The rate must be lower than 3.875%. I’d say at least .25% lower or 3.625%. The lower rate the better.
• 15-year mortgage IS NOT an option. Payment would be bigger than I want.
• A variable rate mortgage of any kind is not an option.
• Would consider a 20-year option (rare, but they are out there).
• If I did a 30-year mortgage I would pay the same monthly amount to make sure I didn’t pay more interest over the 30 years due to restarting the clock.
• I want to pay as little cash out-of-pocket as possible even at the expense of a higher rate. I don’t want to put up $2000-$10,000 cash right now.

Any thoughts and insights are appreciated.

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simplesimon
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by simplesimon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Check again when rates dip further.

Silk McCue
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by Silk McCue » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 pm

You can’t find anything that makes sense because you have a good rate right now and rates would have to drop more before it ever would. I would never consider refinancing for a quarter point. Just start paying likes it a 20 year mortgage.

Cheers

knowledge
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by knowledge » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:14 pm

The 10 year is still above the levels of 3 years ago, back when you originated your current loan, so it's not surprising that you can't find a better deal.

JGoneRiding
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:37 pm

OP. I could have written your post! I am looking so if I find something will let you know. I am looking at better right now on others recommendation. Rate is good but I haven't figured out cost yet. They are a bit annoying to get to the rate level. I am also checking with Costco refi options (I used them last time get the 3.875% and it went well)

I might wait a month too and see if it falls. I want a 20yr at 3.3 or 3.4%

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4th and Inches
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by 4th and Inches » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:14 pm

Thanks for the responses. I do have a solid rate at 3.875% and that is a big part why there are very few viable options at this time. JGoneRiding thanks for mentioning better. I had not heard of them and will look into them some more. I also had not considered Costco. Your situation sounds very similar to mine.

Jags4186
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:33 pm

3.875% is the current no cost refinance rate on a conventional 30 year fixed. I just closed.

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fortfun
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by fortfun » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:50 pm

30yr. 3.625 with $478 points. 3.75 with $1,500 cash back.
https://www.provident.com/QuickRatesCal ... lue=700000

20yr. 3.625 no closing costs.
https://www.provident.com/QuickRatesCal ... lue=700000
I've used Provident for my last two refis. Was pleased with their service.

John Doe 123
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by John Doe 123 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:41 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:33 pm
3.875% is the current no cost refinance rate on a conventional 30 year fixed. I just closed.
Where did you get this? Did you have to pay any third party fees (title, appraisal, etc) or was it truly no cost?

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8foot7
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:48 am

You won't find a no-cost refinance that makes sense for you at 3.875% at this current time, and frankly you may never.

The rule of thumb most folks follow is largely that refinancing doesn't make sense unless you're saving a percentage point or better. Obviously circumstances differ, and I'd look hard at saving half a percentage point in your case (a 3.375% 30 year mortgage may never come around again so I'd look real hard at that), but your requiring a no-cost refinance makes that hurdle even higher.

There is no free lunch. You're either paying a higher rate, or you'll pay closing costs, or (as another thread points out) you'll be required to move significant new sums of money into a bank; but the bank isn't going to eat all of those costs and give you a market rate for nothing. Sorry.

I can't imagine going through all the crap involved in underwriting a mortgage to save a quarter of a point. That's literally a difference of under a thousand dollars a year in interest in a $383,000 mortgage, or about a nice dinner out every month.

Jags4186
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:53 am

John Doe 123 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:41 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:33 pm
3.875% is the current no cost refinance rate on a conventional 30 year fixed. I just closed.
Where did you get this? Did you have to pay any third party fees (title, appraisal, etc) or was it truly no cost?
The only cash out of my pocket is escrow prepay and about $300 in prepay interest.

$2,536.92 in borrowing fees
$2,625.00 lender credit

I used a broker but the loan is being sold to Wells Fargo.

Jags4186
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:00 am

8foot7 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:48 am
I can't imagine going through all the crap involved in underwriting a mortgage to save a quarter of a point. That's literally a difference of under a thousand dollars a year in interest in a $383,000 mortgage, or about a nice dinner out every month.
Not sure about your experience but I was able to process my refinance in about 10 e-mails, 2 phone calls, and someone came to my house to process to refi. All to save about $1100/yr. Spent about 3 hours total dealing with the lender. Was a good deal for me.

DoctorPhysics
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by DoctorPhysics » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:02 am

Have similar rates and terms. i’d keep the one you have as it affords greater budget flexibility. You can always accelerate payments to bring the mortgage pay off date closer or recast it.

At about that price, approximately every extra $75/month shaves off a year (eg $150/month would shave off 2 years, $450/month extra would shave off 6 years effectively making it almost a 20 year mortgage).

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F150HD
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by F150HD » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:03 am

fortfun wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:50 pm
30yr. 3.625 with $478 points. 3.75 with $1,500 cash back.
https://www.provident.com/QuickRatesCal ... lue=700000

20yr. 3.625 no closing costs.
https://www.provident.com/QuickRatesCal ... lue=700000
I've used Provident for my last two refis. Was pleased with their service.
if there are no closing costs, what is the 3.708% for in the 2nd link you provided?

Image

or did you mean, they are rolling those costs into the loan so you're paying interest on them?

cherijoh
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by cherijoh » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:03 am

4th and Inches wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:12 pm
I currently have a 30-year fixed mortgage at 3.875% with a $383,000 balance and 326 payments (27 years, 2 months) left. Monthly payment is $1901.67. House is worth about $700,000 and is a single-family residence. State of residence is Colorado.

Given the current rate environment and my requirements below are there are any viable refinance options that make sense being offered in the market right now? What lenders? I have looked, but nothing seems to be worth the trouble. What rate would you consider a refinance given the stipulations below?

• MUST be a no-cost refinance. Higher rates normally apply when closing costs get rolled in. This is a definite headwind to getting a lower rate to make it worth doing.
• I will not pay points.
• The rate must be lower than 3.875%. I’d say at least .25% lower or 3.625%. The lower rate the better.
• 15-year mortgage IS NOT an option. Payment would be bigger than I want.
• A variable rate mortgage of any kind is not an option.
• Would consider a 20-year option (rare, but they are out there).
• If I did a 30-year mortgage I would pay the same monthly amount to make sure I didn’t pay more interest over the 30 years due to restarting the clock.
• I want to pay as little cash out-of-pocket as possible even at the expense of a higher rate. I don’t want to put up $2000-$10,000 cash right now.

Any thoughts and insights are appreciated.
I would outsource this to a mortgage broker. I used one when I did a refi on my house in the late 90s (from 7.75% 30-yr to 6.25% 15-yr). When rates dropped further, I contacted him again to see what was out there and he suggested a 5.25% 10-yr mortgage (which I had never heard of at the time). I thought I was going to need to bring some cash to closing, but I got some kind of rebate and they actually cut me check. This was before the housing bubble burst and when lenders couldn't get enough mortgages to collateralize.

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8foot7
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:15 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:00 am
8foot7 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:48 am
I can't imagine going through all the crap involved in underwriting a mortgage to save a quarter of a point. That's literally a difference of under a thousand dollars a year in interest in a $383,000 mortgage, or about a nice dinner out every month.
Not sure about your experience but I was able to process my refinance in about 10 e-mails, 2 phone calls, and someone came to my house to process to refi. All to save about $1100/yr. Spent about 3 hours total dealing with the lender. Was a good deal for me.
That would change my opinion, definitely.

John Doe 123
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by John Doe 123 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:27 am

8foot7 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:15 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:00 am
8foot7 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:48 am
I can't imagine going through all the crap involved in underwriting a mortgage to save a quarter of a point. That's literally a difference of under a thousand dollars a year in interest in a $383,000 mortgage, or about a nice dinner out every month.
Not sure about your experience but I was able to process my refinance in about 10 e-mails, 2 phone calls, and someone came to my house to process to refi. All to save about $1100/yr. Spent about 3 hours total dealing with the lender. Was a good deal for me.
That would change my opinion, definitely.
I refinanced a few months ago and it was pretty painless for me as well. I had to upload some documents that detailed my financial situation, and then drive into the bank to sign some documents. Total time commitment for me was 2-3 hours.

I'm sorry you had a rough experience 8 foot 7. Maybe your lender was giving you a hard time because you are a panthers fan.

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fortfun
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by fortfun » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:29 am

F150HD wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:03 am

or did you mean, they are rolling those costs into the loan so you're paying interest on them?
Hi F150HD,
Sadly, the link didn't update when I entered the new info. I think it was for a 30yr loan. You/he would need to punch the numbers into the website to get accurate information. I'd even call them to be certain. Re-entering 20yr should give you the information that I provided above. Sorry.

softwaregeek
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by softwaregeek » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:31 am

If you have 250k to move, a relationship mortgage is an option. Also consider a 10/1 arm.

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8foot7
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:34 am

John Doe 123 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:27 am


I'm sorry you had a rough experience 8 foot 7. Maybe your lender was giving you a hard time because you are a panthers fan.
The burden I bear :sharebeer

Topic Author
4th and Inches
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by 4th and Inches » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:23 pm

Well almost a month later of periodically looking and nothing has compelled me to act. I think rates need to go down another .25% or more for me to do anything. Wanting minimal closing cost and a max 18 months pay back period is quite the headwind. Oh well.

jj45
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by jj45 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:59 pm

I'm in a similar situation as many of you, refinanced 8 years ago to 3.75%. Wasn't too hard and I would refinance again to save 0.25%. Seems like all of us who refied at the last low are waking up again. We may never see a no-cost 30 year at 3.5% but I want to keep my eyes open just in case. But the websites have changed since I last kept track. What sites do you'all like for watching no-cost 30 year (I would take a 20 year as well) refi rates?

Topic Author
4th and Inches
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by 4th and Inches » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:27 pm

jj45 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:59 pm
I'm in a similar situation as many of you, refinanced 8 years ago to 3.75%. Wasn't too hard and I would refinance again to save 0.25%. Seems like all of us who refied at the last low are waking up again. We may never see a no-cost 30 year at 3.5% but I want to keep my eyes open just in case. But the websites have changed since I last kept track. What sites do you'all like for watching no-cost 30 year (I would take a 20 year as well) refi rates?
Here are frequent places I have looked.

https://better.com/
https://www.aimloan.com/programs/get-rates#
https://www.bankrate.com
https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-rates/#/location
All of the above and general internet searches.

This guy has very in-depth analysis of what is driving rates. https://themortgagereports.com/today

I have not contacted any brokers or banks to get quotes.

WhiteMaxima
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Re: Currently Viable Refinance Options when 30-YR Mortgage is Currently at 3.875%?

Post by WhiteMaxima » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:03 pm

Never say never. Germany has -0.05% saving interest rate and 1.5% 10 year mortgage rate, We are 3.75%, still way to go to catch up with europe.

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