Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

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delamer
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by delamer » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:17 am

Ladeedaw wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:05 pm
Thank you again for your insights. To answer a few questions brought up, the level of my grandma's memory problems is unclear to me right now. two months ago, she'd have some small memory hiccups, repeating herself in conversation or mixing up when recent things happened. Grandpa has been in care the last 6 weeks for hip replacement recovery, and in that time, her memory seems to have deteriorated much more rapidly. She calls, panicked, because she can't find my Grandpa (who has been gone from the house for weeks). She has fallen and bruised herself badly, but can't remember falling. During part of this time, she's had family members staying with her, but the increased frequency of these occurrences when left alone is what prompted my parents' decision that the grandparents can no longer live alone. And I think they are right in that assessment.

As of two months ago, both grandparents could still feed themselves, walk (with a walker), bath themselves, and had control of their bladder and bowels, which I think is why my parents are willing to take them into their home. They've slept a lot and aren't very crabby or antagonistic. I'm not sure which of these details have changed since Grandpa broke his hip. I realize things can change very quickly.

Regarding grandparents' residence, they own it outright. It's not worth a ton (I'm guessing $150k, not knowing the local market). There is some question, unrelated to their health, as to what will happen to the house. It may stay in the family; it may be sold. I've not been privy to the conversations about that decision, but will ask my dad soon.

I'm grateful for the personal experiences and observations shared here. I'm seeing that a) my parents will need help in caring for my grandparents, even short term and b) if my grandparents' conditions deteriorates any further, they will probably need professional care 24/7. I believe my parents will be resistant to that idea right now, but I will start researching and talk to them in the next couple of weeks about limits: at what point they will agree that they can't do this full time on their own.
When someone has dementia, any significant change in their life can send them on a downward spiral.

It sounds like your grandfather’s fall and his being away from the house may have had that effect on your grandmother.

tibbitts
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by tibbitts » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:26 am

delamer wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:15 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:52 pm
I think the OP needs to provide more details about the medical conditions involved. Everyone has kind of jumped to assuming an immediate 24x7 bedridden mode, and that might come, but it's not clear from the original description.
I don’t see any indication that anyone is assuming the OP’s grandparents are bedridden.

There are in their 90’s. One is recovering from a broken hip and one has dementia. All of that will put a big burden on the OP’s parents, even if their health is otherwise good.
Although after my post the OP clarified the situation, even just one post before yours said:

Their lives will be dominated by constant care. As if they were raising newborns, but with the added difficulty of size. Much easier to dress and toilet a baby than an adult. Your parents lives will consist of all day, all the time care. Simple getting up and dressed and eating in the morning may take 2-3 hours.

So yes I think most people were assuming that.

Now that OP has clarified the situation I tend to agree that it might be best to go directly to a facility outside the home due to the issues with at least one person seemingly not being able to be left alone. At a similar age my mother had a fall and was in rehab for a similar period, but after that recovered to where she was able to live on her own for another year or two. So I was partly basing my response on that. Later she had fairly rapid-onset cancer, and in my late 50s I did care for her at her home when she became bedridden. But the big difference was having a limited time outlook. Providing care for a maximum of months vs. an unknown number of years is completely different.

delamer
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by delamer » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:58 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:26 am
delamer wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:15 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:52 pm
I think the OP needs to provide more details about the medical conditions involved. Everyone has kind of jumped to assuming an immediate 24x7 bedridden mode, and that might come, but it's not clear from the original description.
I don’t see any indication that anyone is assuming the OP’s grandparents are bedridden.

There are in their 90’s. One is recovering from a broken hip and one has dementia. All of that will put a big burden on the OP’s parents, even if their health is otherwise good.
Although after my post the OP clarified the situation, even just one post before yours said:

Their lives will be dominated by constant care. As if they were raising newborns, but with the added difficulty of size. Much easier to dress and toilet a baby than an adult. Your parents lives will consist of all day, all the time care. Simple getting up and dressed and eating in the morning may take 2-3 hours.

So yes I think most people were assuming that.

Now that OP has clarified the situation I tend to agree that it might be best to go directly to a facility outside the home due to the issues with at least one person seemingly not being able to be left alone. At a similar age my mother had a fall and was in rehab for a similar period, but after that recovered to where she was able to live on her own for another year or two. So I was partly basing my response on that. Later she had fairly rapid-onset cancer, and in my late 50s I did care for her at her home when she became bedridden. But the big difference was having a limited time outlook. Providing care for a maximum of months vs. an unknown number of years is completely different.
Limited mobility is a different thing than bedridden. My mother needed help getting dressed and using the bathroom, but could use a walker and wheelchair.

Wakefield1
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by Wakefield1 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:20 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:00 pm
Ladeedaw wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:51 pm


Also speak with whoever becomes their primary care physician, who may also have suggestions/referrals...



Good luck to all of you!

RM
Yes,a sympathetic Doctor is a great help in these kind of things,possibly even someone who could occasionally come out to visit and/or show the caretaker how to do a needed periodic injection or fingerstick blood test. As for example,someone on Warfarin treatment.

visualguy
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by visualguy » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:26 pm

Wakefield1 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:05 pm
Wiki material potentially,some heavy stuff this is.
Heavy indeed. One of those facts of life that that you don't want to think about because you get so depressed. I was able not to let it get to me with grandparents, but when it happened to my parents, it hit me pretty hard.

We decided to put mom (dementia) in a nursing home. No way to take care of her at home without a disastrous effect on our lives. Dad can still take care of himself with some help (no dementia, but many other limiting issues), so ok for now, but I see that changing soon.

It's not just the significant agony of seeing what happens to the parents, but also getting an education on what is mostly likely waiting for you. Psychologically devastating, and definitely made me start rethinking how I want to live the rest of my life until that happens.

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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by jbranx » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:32 pm

I deleted a post offering medical advice. rules#rule-4c:
Medical Issues

Questions on medical issues are beyond the scope of the forum. If you are looking for medical information online, I suggest you start with the Medical Library Association's User's Guide to Finding and Evaluating Health Information on the Web which, in addition to providing guidance on evaluating health information, includes a list of their top recommended sites.

Kennedy
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by Kennedy » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:39 pm

Something your parents may not have considered is that having your grandparents live with them will change everything. The dynamic of conversations will change. What is watched on tv will change. What is served for dinner, and so on and so on.

If there isn't any life-threatening condition to deal with, the unknown time commitment for the future can make one depressed in that there won't be a clear end in sight.

shell921
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by shell921 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:56 am

There may not be a clear end in sight but there will be a "finish line".

Everyone is different & it's hard predicting but I read in some magazine that only 1 in 6,000 Americans live to be 100.
Then on-line I saw this :
...............
What are the odds of reaching 100 years old?
There is a 30% chance of making it to your 90th birthday, and only about 14 in 1,000will see 100. 70 year olds have a somewhat better prognosis. Almost 2/3 of 70 year old men and almost 3/4 of 70 year old women will live at least another ten years, and over 1/5 of men will make it to 90, as will 1/3 of women.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
and this:
........
"People 90 and older now comprise 4.7 percent of the older population (age 65 and older), as compared with only 2.8 percent in 1980".
Not many people over age 85 - in my experience - are able to live independently. Most need some sort of help.
Last edited by shell921 on Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:11 pm

Stats are lovely things to look at.

The whole idea of "chances are..." when someone in their late 60s is caring for one elder with limited mobility and one with the challenges of dementia (and both of these conditions only get worse with time), the idea that this will be over "some day" is cold comfort.

A poster on another internet site (AgingCare.com) recently lost her mom; mom was 106. Had serious mental health issues BEFORE dementia set in.

It really REALLY behooves folks like the OP's parents to set up stuff like respite care, elder law consults and Medicaid compliant financial arrangements BEFORE committing to this sort of caregiving long term. You simply can't "wing" this sort of stuff.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Gnirk
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by Gnirk » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:47 pm

I totally understand the OP's parents wanting to help their parents. It's what our generation does. But you need to go into this with your eyes wide open. NOBODY can predict the future. We have a couple who are good friends of ours, and her dad is 95 (and was supposedly on his deathbed 20 years ago), and his parents are both 95. What are the odds of 3 out of 4 parents living to 95??

All three are living in assisted living communities, with very close oversight by their children. Two have had heart issues for years, and one has alzheimer's. All parent lived independently until about 5 years ago. Our friends decided the best thing for everyone was to have their parents sell their respective homes, and use the money to move close to their children and pay for assisted living.

I also have a friend who has cared for her mom in her home for years. It has taken a toll on both her health and her lifestyle. Even with respite care, you have very little social life of your own, and the stress of caregiving is always present.

pennywise
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by pennywise » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:27 am

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:11 pm
Stats are lovely things to look at.

The whole idea of "chances are..." when someone in their late 60s is caring for one elder with limited mobility and one with the challenges of dementia (and both of these conditions only get worse with time), the idea that this will be over "some day" is cold comfort.

A poster on another internet site (AgingCare.com) recently lost her mom; mom was 106. Had serious mental health issues BEFORE dementia set in.

It really REALLY behooves folks like the OP's parents to set up stuff like respite care, elder law consults and Medicaid compliant financial arrangements BEFORE committing to this sort of caregiving long term. You simply can't "wing" this sort of stuff.
Exactly. One of the societal changes that is happening under the radar is that with improved medical and health care people are living longer but of course aging happens and the longer one lives the better the odds of degeneration mentally and physically. So the scenario of 60-ish (or 70ish or even 80-ish) people trying to handle caretaking at a highly intense level for even older relatives is only going to increase in scope and complexity.

My MIL is 95 YO; she has been in assisted living for 4 years. I fully expect to see her "celebrate" her 100th birthday and am fairly confident we will see a 105th. In comparison, she had buried both her parents by the time she was 62. My dad is 85; he had lost both his parents by the time he was 66. I foresee my husband being responsible for her until he is well into his 70s as he is 65 now. I"m 61 and we are now shifting into high gear with my dad to take care of him.

And that's not an uncommon scenario at all today.

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dm200
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by dm200 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:56 am

Kennedy wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:39 pm
Something your parents may not have considered is that having your grandparents live with them will change everything. The dynamic of conversations will change. What is watched on tv will change. What is served for dinner, and so on and so on.

If there isn't any life-threatening condition to deal with, the unknown time commitment for the future can make one depressed in that there won't be a clear end in sight.
From my family experiences - there are wide variations in how such elderly relatives behave in these situations. My late uncle (never married) lived to his late 80's. He almost never complained. He lived with my father - and my brother lived next door. He lost a lot of weight (never heavy anyway) and it was concluded that he had some form of unidentified cancer. Based on all the facts and circumstances, there was family consensus to not even try "heroic measures" - and he stayed at home, with my father, until he died in his sleep one evening when my father had gone out.

Freetime76
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by Freetime76 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:31 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:14 pm
TheDDC wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:53 pm
JPM wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:51 pm
Second friend couple cared for Dad until he was 96. Sentient to the end. Developed pneumonia at 96 and family plan was to keep him at home and let nature take its course rather than call 911 to take him to hospital. Pneumonia is a relatively easy death for the very old.
Okay this downright sinister. Witholding medical care for a pretty routine illness that can affect anyone is elder abuse. Did you call the police?

-TheDDC
It's a very common request in healthcare directives for no efforts to be made to render medical assistance, including when they would likely be sufficient to keep a person alive.
An alternate p.o.v.: My mother and aunt alternated 6 week stints caring for their mother for about 2.5 years. Beyond saving money on caregiving, it helped to have grandma in her own home, as it was familiar (vision was limited, and same habits). It was rough, but both mom and aunt said they have no regrets. Grandma was ready to 'go', and said so verbally many times. She was in her 90s with many different and serious health issues. They had multiple 911 calls, where the EMTs did their job and brought her back. One call resulted in a 1 week hospital stay, where grandma because furious (she wanted to be/die in her own home...tried to climb out of the bed and got banged up on the side rails, and then had to be sedated....).

Anyway, not to traumatize any of you: Point being, it was an enormous help and blessing when they discovered hospice from a referral at Medicare, I believe. Hospice provided a lot of support and advice, the most important being that they essentially gave them permission to not call 911 and to just stay with their mother and let things be. That it was OK. I can't imagine my mom and aunt having to make these decisions, but maybe this will help someone else.

To bring this back to finances, none of the care decisions were based on financial constraints, although this probably was the least expensive option in the end since both mom and aunt were retired/not working and grandma's nest egg was preserved in case of need later. There was a personal cost of course. The story began with no one knowing that this would be over 2 years or the health progression, so I think all anyone can do is make the best decision you can knowing what you know at the time.
Best of luck to the OP. There is a lot of good advice in the replies.

hudson
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Re: Elderly grandparents moving in with parents; what should they plan for?

Post by hudson » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:55 pm

Most everything has been covered....you probably already know this...

In our city, If a person falls and can't get up....and you can't help them up, if you call 911, they will help you get them up, evaluate them and transport them to care if needed. In our case, unless there were two strong adults available, we could not get the person up. The 911 folks helped us maybe 10 times; there was no charge unless they transported the patient. It's good to find out the local rules.

Apply for veteran benefits if applicable.

We had to make changes to our house to handle our patient...ramps, wider door openings, ADA toilets, etc.
Now whenever we remodel, we try to make ADA type improvements.

We learned that we could no longer help our patient once they could not get out of bed and go to the bathroom. At that point, we gave up and found a nursing home.

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