TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

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ohboy!
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by ohboy! » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:51 pm

Droptoptop wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:05 am
cas
ohboy! wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:28 am
“You could lose money by investing in the fund. Although the fund seeks to preserve the value of your investment at $1.00 per share, it cannot guarantee it will do so. The fund may impose a fee upon the sale of your shares or may temporarily suspend your ability to sell shares if the fund’s liquidity falls below required minimums because of market conditions or other factors. An investment in the fund is not insured or guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government agency. The fund’s sponsor has no legal obligation to provide financial support to the fund, and you should not expect that the sponsor will provide financial support to the fund at any time.”

Wouldn’t CIT bank high yield savings with FDIC be safer?
Technically, yes, but practically there's not much difference in safety. CIT is currently offering 1.85% and PVOXX is offering 2.57%. If I had only $10,000 in cash savings and I was having trouble sleeping at night, then sure I'd forgo the extra $72 a year and go with CIT. But if I recognize the additional risk is de minimis, and I had $1,000,000 in cash, I'd go for PVOXX and take the extra $7,200 a year.
CIT has 2.45% with 25k balance or $100p month qualifying deposit.

Droptoptop
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by Droptoptop » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:38 pm

Oh wow, didn't see that 2.45% program from CIT. That's a very good rate for a bank account. I've banked with Everbank (now TIAA Bank) for years and they were historically among the top banks for high rates, but even their 1 year intro rate right now is only 2.15%. CIT's 2.45% is presumably indefinite and will adjust up to match the T-bill rate?

Anyway, yes, if you have less than $250k in cash, that's the way to go given FDIC insurance limits, though in my case regardless of assets, I have to move money around frequently to fund various non stock investments and between my various entities, so I'd rather have my cash and banking in the same institution as my stock portfolio, which TD Ameritrade accommodates well, so I'm still going to stick with TDA. TDA also makes it quite easy to move money between third party institutions, allowing free overnight ACH to and from third party accounts, which is a big plus for me.

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market timer
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by market timer » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm

From what I gather, Federated funds are not available as sweep accounts at TD Ameritrade. Has anyone looked into the possibility of writing software that automatically sweeps unused cash into a money market mutual fund? Seems like it would be relatively easy as far as algorithmic trading goes.

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whodidntante
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by whodidntante » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:46 pm

market timer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm
From what I gather, Federated funds are not available as sweep accounts at TD Ameritrade. Has anyone looked into the possibility of writing software that automatically sweeps unused cash into a money market mutual fund? Seems like it would be relatively easy as far as algorithmic trading goes.
Some brokers offer an API that could be used to build something like that. It looks like TDA has trade automation capability.
https://developer.tdameritrade.com/

neilpilot
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by neilpilot » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:20 pm

market timer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm
From what I gather, Federated funds are not available as sweep accounts at TD Ameritrade. Has anyone looked into the possibility of writing software that automatically sweeps unused cash into a money market mutual fund? Seems like it would be relatively easy as far as algorithmic trading goes.
Your assumption is not consistent with my post and other's earlier in this thread. PTTXX has been set up as a sweep in each of our 5 accounts.

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market timer
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by market timer » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:38 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:20 pm
market timer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm
From what I gather, Federated funds are not available as sweep accounts at TD Ameritrade. Has anyone looked into the possibility of writing software that automatically sweeps unused cash into a money market mutual fund? Seems like it would be relatively easy as far as algorithmic trading goes.
Your assumption is not consistent with my post and other's earlier in this thread. PTTXX has been set up as a sweep in each of our 5 accounts.
I asked customer service about having PTTXX as a sweep account, but it was not an option. Only options were 1.1% on accounts above $1M and 0.75% on accounts above $500K. Each account was considered in isolation in determining whether I met the threshold.

neilpilot
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by neilpilot » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:32 pm

market timer wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:38 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:20 pm
market timer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm
From what I gather, Federated funds are not available as sweep accounts at TD Ameritrade. Has anyone looked into the possibility of writing software that automatically sweeps unused cash into a money market mutual fund? Seems like it would be relatively easy as far as algorithmic trading goes.
Your assumption is not consistent with my post and other's earlier in this thread. PTTXX has been set up as a sweep in each of our 5 accounts.
I asked customer service about having PTTXX as a sweep account, but it was not an option. Only options were 1.1% on accounts above $1M and 0.75% on accounts above $500K. Each account was considered in isolation in determining whether I met the threshold.
How long ago did you ask? I do know this is a relatively new option, and that all TDA CS agents may not yet know the details.

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market timer
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by market timer » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:48 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:32 pm
market timer wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:38 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:20 pm
market timer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm
From what I gather, Federated funds are not available as sweep accounts at TD Ameritrade. Has anyone looked into the possibility of writing software that automatically sweeps unused cash into a money market mutual fund? Seems like it would be relatively easy as far as algorithmic trading goes.
Your assumption is not consistent with my post and other's earlier in this thread. PTTXX has been set up as a sweep in each of our 5 accounts.
I asked customer service about having PTTXX as a sweep account, but it was not an option. Only options were 1.1% on accounts above $1M and 0.75% on accounts above $500K. Each account was considered in isolation in determining whether I met the threshold.
How long ago did you ask? I do know this is a relatively new option, and that all TDA CS agents may not yet know the details.
This week.

neilpilot
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by neilpilot » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:42 am

market timer wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:48 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:32 pm
market timer wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:38 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:20 pm
market timer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:41 pm
From what I gather, Federated funds are not available as sweep accounts at TD Ameritrade. Has anyone looked into the possibility of writing software that automatically sweeps unused cash into a money market mutual fund? Seems like it would be relatively easy as far as algorithmic trading goes.
Your assumption is not consistent with my post and other's earlier in this thread. PTTXX has been set up as a sweep in each of our 5 accounts.
I asked customer service about having PTTXX as a sweep account, but it was not an option. Only options were 1.1% on accounts above $1M and 0.75% on accounts above $500K. Each account was considered in isolation in determining whether I met the threshold.
How long ago did you ask? I do know this is a relatively new option, and that all TDA CS agents may not yet know the details.
This week.
Then of course I can't explain why you weren't offered a sweep into PTTXX, since I'm one of several posters to this thread that apparently made this change successfully in January. In fact I made the change after learning about this relatively new option here. I can only surmise that you need to find a better customer service contact at TDA.

snowman
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by snowman » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:30 am

Moved couple accounts to TDA recently to collect signing bonuses. I searched for suitable MMF before moving accounts. I don't trade much, so not interested in sweep vehicle. Searching online, I learned about PCOXX as the best option, and I decided to test the waters after the move.

I can confirm what others have already posted - there is no minimum to buy, there is no minimum holding period enforced, and there is no transaction fee. This contradicts what website says; wonder if/when TDA decides to update it.

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BogleFanGal
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by BogleFanGal » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:44 am

snowman wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:30 am
Moved couple accounts to TDA recently to collect signing bonuses. I searched for suitable MMF before moving accounts. I don't trade much, so not interested in sweep vehicle. Searching online, I learned about PCOXX as the best option, and I decided to test the waters after the move.

I can confirm what others have already posted - there is no minimum to buy, there is no minimum holding period enforced, and there is no transaction fee. This contradicts what website says; wonder if/when TDA decides to update it.
Just curious: any reason you didn't go with higher yielding PVOXX? I'm in BIL now and debating PVOXX vs PCOXX - not sure what the real difference is risk-wise or cost-wise. But good to know I finally have an option to the low yielding BIL as a conservative choice for my HSA.

snowman
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by snowman » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:53 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:44 am
snowman wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:30 am
Moved couple accounts to TDA recently to collect signing bonuses. I searched for suitable MMF before moving accounts. I don't trade much, so not interested in sweep vehicle. Searching online, I learned about PCOXX as the best option, and I decided to test the waters after the move.

I can confirm what others have already posted - there is no minimum to buy, there is no minimum holding period enforced, and there is no transaction fee. This contradicts what website says; wonder if/when TDA decides to update it.
Just curious: any reason you didn't go with higher yielding PVOXX? I'm in BIL now and debating PVOXX vs PCOXX - not sure what the real difference is risk-wise or cost-wise. But good to know I finally have an option to the low yielding BIL as a conservative choice for my HSA.
I am a 3 fund ETF guy (VTI, VXUS, and BND), and I wanted to put small portion of BND into good MMF. Searching TDA website produced no results, so I googled and found PCOXX as the most recommended MMF at TDA. It's yield equals or exceeds VMMXX, and there are no trading fees or restrictions, so that's good enough for me.

PVOXX never came up when googling specific MMF requirements at TDA, so I never even considered it. I have no idea if you can sell it in less than 180 days without penalty, like you can with PCOXX.

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BogleFanGal
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by BogleFanGal » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:55 pm

Thanks for the quick response, snowman.

milosz19
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by milosz19 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:26 pm

I just finished speaking with a mutual fund expert at TDA. I was told that neither PVOXX nor PCOXX feature a holding period. So technically, you can sell shares after owning them for just a day. PVOXX is slightly better as it is typically not available for individual investors.

Droptoptop
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by Droptoptop » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:56 pm

I thought I'd give an update since my last post in February as I see there's still some confusion:

-PTTXX is indeed available as a cash sweep option for natural person accounts, and it is currently the highest yielding cash sweep option at TD Ameritrade. I enrolled 2 personal accounts in it over the last few weeks.

-PTTXX is not available for non natural person accounts such as LLPs, LLCs, and Trusts due to the money market reforms of 2016. GORXX is the highest yielding available cash sweep option for non natural person accounts. I enrolled 3 entity accounts in it over the last few weeks.

-Note however that you need at least one PCS account (>$1mln in assets) to be eligible for the above. So in my case, I have one LLLP account that is under PCS as it is >$1mln in assets. The rep was able to instantly get that enrolled in GORXX. However, to get my personal accounts (which each have less than $1mln in assets) enrolled in PTTXX, the rep had to put in a request for an exception and point to my entity PCS account to justify it.

-PCOXX and PVOXX are both available as no minimum purchase, no transaction fee, no load, no minimum hold period money market funds at TD Ameritrade. They are NOT available as cash sweep options. I have verified this info through actual buys and sells in multiple of my accounts over the past few weeks, and even though on the buy and sell screen, you will see a warning about a minimum hold period fee of $49.99, this will not be charged. One, caveat is that one of my accounts is a holdover from ThinkOrSwim and I was charged a $17 misc fee upon selling PCOXX. I called TDA and they refunded the fee, and since then I've traded PCOXX again in the same account without the fee being charged. This $17 fee was just a systems error that has to do with TDA buying ThinkorSwim and not fully updating the old ThinkorSwim fee structure to the new TDA fee structure. So just review your trade confirmations the first few times you trade these funds to make sure you're not accidentally being charged a fee. Yes, you can buy $100 of PVOXX or PCOXX and sell it the next day for free. I've done this. Note that, reps do not necessarily know this. I called 3 or 4 times and got a different answer each time. One rep gave me the above info, another rep said the minimum hold period fee is only waived for PCS clients, and a third rep said the minimum hold period fee applies no matter whether you are PCS or not. So for whatever reason, TD Ameritrade has not given their reps clear info on this. But the first rep appears to be right as I've verified it through actual multiple trades in and out over the past few weeks in BOTH PCS and non PCS accounts with no fees, so it appears you do not need to have any PCS accounts to trade PCOXX or PVOXX for free.

-The difference between PVOXX and PCOXX is that PCOXX is only allowed to be purchased by natural person accounts as it has a fixed NAV. This is due to the money market reforms of 2016. See my post here for more info and the tax implications of buying and selling a floating NAV mm fund: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=273853 PVOXX is a floating NAV money market fund, so it's NAV will fluctate slightly around $1. Since 2016, when it switched from fixed to floating due to the regulatory change, it has had an all time low of 0.9998 and an all time high of $1.0004. So while you do get a higher yield than PCOXX, you will also bear a tiny amount of price risk plus the small amount of additional tax work.

-When you look up the price of PVOXX, many quote websites haven't updated their system to show the 4 decimal places for floating rate NAV money market funds, so you will falsely think its value is $1. For example Morningstar is currently showing a price of $1.00 even though the actual current price is $1.0003: https://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/ ... quote.html You can see the actual price history to 4 decimal places here under Performance>>>View Historical Prices: https://www.federatedinvestors.com/prod ... ions/is.do.

-TD Ameritrade's systems haven't been completed updated either. Their trading systems are correct so when you buy and sell PVOXX you will transact at the correct floating rate NAV, but on your Balances and Positions tab, the decimal place will be cut off, and it will show a lower value than what you actually have. For example, I bought PVOXX the other day at $1.0003, and it is still at $1.0003, but the Positions tab and TDA's quote system shows it at $1.00, so in my Positions and Balances screen, I am incorrectly showing a small MTM loss. I contacted TDA and they are aware of this issue and awaiting their programmers to fix it.

As you might guess, I spent hours figuring all of the above out, so I hope it saves you guys some time!

neilpilot
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by neilpilot » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:46 pm

Droptoptop wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:56 pm
I thought I'd give an update since my last post in February as I see there's still some confusion:

-PTTXX is indeed available as a cash sweep option for natural person accounts, and it is currently the highest yielding cash sweep option at TD Ameritrade. I enrolled 2 personal accounts in it over the last few weeks.

-PTTXX is not available for non natural person accounts such as LLPs, LLCs, and Trusts due to the money market reforms of 2016. GORXX is the highest yielding available cash sweep option for non natural person accounts. I enrolled 3 entity accounts in it over the last few weeks.
One minor correction. A trust can be set up for a PTTXX sweep so long as it shares a natural person’s tax status. It was easy to set this up for our revocable trust by providing a simple note to the effect that our trust did not have it’s own EIN#, but was referenced by one of the trustee’s SSN.

Bobby206
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by Bobby206 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:43 pm

Great thread. Thanks for the updates!

btenny
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by btenny » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:50 pm

Drop. When I did my digging the Rep I talked to said a lot of this is very new and driven by all the old Scottrade people like me who wanted better MM rates. So TDA went and found better choices but then were thinking about limiting who could be involved. He thought new customers would not get the good choices. But he said a lot of this is still getting worked out so the features and trade limits and costs are still somewhat fluid.

How do you see the stop trading risk issues that might occur with these MMFs? I had money in places that got locked up in 2008-9 and ever since have been gun shy of funds that claim they pay good rates but are backed by all kinds of corporate trades and funny notes. I know the rates these MMF are paying is better than treasuries and more stable price wise so there has to be trade offs in risk...

I also know BIL is being used and gamed by the fast traders so its price goes up the closer it gets to TBill auction dates. So are these MMFs subject to this same arbitrage by the high speed traders?

Good Luck.

Droptoptop
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by Droptoptop » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:09 pm

I didn't experience that in 2008 so can you elaborate? Which funds were you in and how long was your money locked up? I believe the Reserve MM fund is the only one that broke the buck then though. I'm not too worried about the risk of these "prime" money market funds. They're all in AAA rated securities, with ultra short maturity dates, and if the stock market starts to crater, just move your cash into a government securities only MM fund as a preemptive measure. Maybe I'm being naive, but I think you're better off worrying about the risk in your stock, bond, other investment allocations rather than your money market fund.

I'm not aware that BIL is being gamed by high frequency traders. Do you have a source for this? As I googled it and didn't find anything. BIL's price moves up as it gets closer to its ex-dividend date, which is normal for any dividend paying stock. Are you sure you're not mistaking this for "high frequency traders gaming it"?

I don't see how money market mutual funds could be gamed by high frequency traders since mutual funds only trade once a day at the close.

RIMDBogle
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by RIMDBogle » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:44 pm

Thanks for your replies.

I did work with TDA folks and finally they agreed to offer PTTXX as alternate sweep equivalent to my account. I did ask them to consider PVOXX or PCOXX (has better yield than PTTXX), but TDA declined.

What is the stability for PTTXX comparing with other MM vehicle?

What is the situation make PTTXX loose value ?

Thanks for sharing.

btenny
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by btenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:25 pm

In 2008 I owned some Pimco Closed End municipal bond funds. These are leveraged bonds funds that pay above market rates by using leverage to boost bond ownership to 120% or so of face value. These are very good funds that have been around for decades and work great for small investors if bought at discount and held until the discount improves. The funds create the leverage by selling short term (28 day) "preferred shares". Back then they used an auction called AMPS to sell these preferred shares. This auction failed repeatedly in 2008. See the story below. This cascaded through the market and stopped many of the CEF funds from paying dividends for almost a year as I recall. Plus the holders of those preferred shares had their cash locked up. They thought they owned 28 day paper but ended up holding it for 10-12 months. A lot of this paper was in money market funds and was rated AAA. There was not a default but the money was locked up. I am not sure of the exact details but is was part of the money market problem. So ever since I have been very careful with my cash and bonds funds.

https://www.ici.org/pdf/fm-v18n4.pdf

Diligent Hands
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by Diligent Hands » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:30 am

Consistent with the experience of others, I was able to have PTTXX set up as my sweep account. Very easy phone call. I asked about PCOXX, but was told that was not available for sweep accounts.

RIMDBogle
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by RIMDBogle » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:44 pm

Thanks for your replies. I find many folks got PTTXX as sweep vehicle (including me!).

What is the reason TDA limiting to PTTXX as sweep vehicle?

I did not see any toggle options to other same family of PTTXX under sweep option.

Thanks for sharing.

dszklarek
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Re: TD Ameritrade Money Market Options

Post by dszklarek » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:42 am

Droptoptop wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:56 pm

-When you look up the price of PVOXX, many quote websites haven't updated their system to show the 4 decimal places for floating rate NAV money market funds, so you will falsely think its value is $1. For example Morningstar is currently showing a price of $1.00 even though the actual current price is $1.0003: https://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/ ... quote.html You can see the actual price history to 4 decimal places here under Performance>>>View Historical Prices: https://www.federatedinvestors.com/prod ... ions/is.do.

-TD Ameritrade's systems haven't been completed updated either. Their trading systems are correct so when you buy and sell PVOXX you will transact at the correct floating rate NAV, but on your Balances and Positions tab, the decimal place will be cut off, and it will show a lower value than what you actually have. For example, I bought PVOXX the other day at $1.0003, and it is still at $1.0003, but the Positions tab and TDA's quote system shows it at $1.00, so in my Positions and Balances screen, I am incorrectly showing a small MTM loss. I contacted TDA and they are aware of this issue and awaiting their programmers to fix it.

As you might guess, I spent hours figuring all of the above out, so I hope it saves you guys some time!
Wish I had looked at this post before buying PVOXX. Looks like this has still not been fixed. I show a loss of $70 right after purchase. I have not sold to check what price I would get, but everything I look at still shows 1.00 other than my purchase confirmation. You are saying I would get 1.003 when selling and that my current balance is off by $70?

Seems like an easy fix for such a large company. I have more cash I wanted to put into it, but have been looking for better option when I saw your post. My guy who handles my account has been clueless about it all.

Thanks for your legwork

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