Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Topic Author
Broken Man 1999
Posts: 2934
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am

Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:28 pm

I didn't want to hijack the discussion on sharing financial info, so I started this one.

I'm curious.

How do the posters address the need for money to continue running the household whilst the executor/Trustee is getting the various paperwork pushed through?

I haven't decided exactly what I am going to do.

Definitely interested in others ideas.

Living is hard, but dying can be harder (for those left behind). Making the mechanics of those dealing with our estate is the last thing I want to make difficult.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

HomeStretch
Posts: 1136
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by HomeStretch » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:40 pm

I will be interested to read other responses as I have thought about this...

Spouse and I have joint accounts and are each other’s executor/successor trustee. if one of us dies, the other has access to joint funds to run the household.

If spouse and I both die, non-minor dependent child has immediate access to cash kept in our house (not a huge amount) and, as soon as death certificates are procured in 1-2 weeks, proceeds from a small POD bank account. This should cover the first month until the executor has full access to other bank accounts to maintain the household and child’s other expenses. Son also just took out first credit card in his name for additional liquidity as the card he is an authorized user on would be shutdown at our deaths.
Last edited by HomeStretch on Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 6665
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by prudent » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:42 pm

From conversations with friends, I've heard a couple different scenarios. In one case the deceased had the executor as a joint owner on a checking account, and the executor got those funds with no delay. Another intended to use the insurance proceeds only to find out that a child (not the estate) was the beneficiary, but the beneficiary was cooperative and provided a chunk of the funds to handle non-funeral bills in the short term. Another executor just let the bills pile up until he was able to access the deceased's bank account, which took about 4 weeks.

User avatar
TierArtz
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:33 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by TierArtz » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:51 pm

I'm going to be the executor of my father's estate. My sister and I recently realized he was a gullible target for every annuity salesperson who came his way. With his permission, we've begin consolidating an odd mix of seven annuities, three IRAs (two overlapping with annuities), four bank accounts, and a Computershare account into one local checking account and Vanguard for everything else (one variable annuity, one IRA, and one taxable brokerage). My sister is overseeing his cash flow and bills as they live in the same city, and I'm overseeing his investments. I have been made a trusted agent (VG term) and have full trade authority on his accounts.

I need to see if my sister can withdraw funds from his checking accounts, or write checks. I suppose I also need to figure out probate laws (judge to deem the will valid) and tax filing rules for the state he lives in. I know his tax accountant and will work with that office to upload 1099s as VG and current insurance companies make them available this year, and with VG in all future and the final year.

All the above should make the final paperwork much easier.

FWIW, it was a complete pain getting a VG mutual fund trust account "upgraded" / "transitioned" into a trust brokerage account. They did not do a good job advising on what to do prior to the first and second paperwork attempts. Third time was a charm!

User avatar
TierArtz
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:33 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by TierArtz » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:01 pm

Now I understand the question. I'll be looking for ideas. If my spouse passes I'm the trustee. If I pass first, my spouse and VG National Trust Company are co-trustees. If I go first, she'll handle the bills and they the investments. Our kids will be minors for a long time. Hopefully one of them will mature into a logical replacement trustee/co-trustee.

curmudgeon
Posts: 1828
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:00 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by curmudgeon » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:15 pm

I figure the odds of my wife and I both dying at the same time, while not zero, are extremely low. I'm OK with that scenario being a bit messy and bills not necessarily being paid on time. We have a living trust, so in theory if we are both gone our successor trustee should have access to most of our assets fairly quickly.

My expectation is that when one of us passes, we will likely move our first successor trustee into being a co-trustee, so that there is someone already in place as the survivor gets older.

We may move to another state in a few years, and if so we will review the estate planning at that time. If for some reason we drop the living trust and go with POD, we will probably set up one smallish savings account as a joint account with our executor to have cash available.

Topic Author
Broken Man 1999
Posts: 2934
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:18 pm

TierArtz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:51 pm
I'm going to be the executor of my father's estate. My sister and I recently realized he was a gullible target for every annuity salesperson who came his way. With his permission, we've begin consolidating an odd mix of seven annuities, three IRAs (two overlapping with annuities), four bank accounts, and a Computershare account into one local checking account and Vanguard for everything else (one variable annuity, one IRA, and one taxable brokerage). My sister is overseeing his cash flow and bills as they live in the same city, and I'm overseeing his investments. I have been made a trusted agent (VG term) and have full trade authority on his accounts.

I need to see if my sister can withdraw funds from his checking accounts, or write checks. I suppose I also need to figure out probate laws (judge to deem the will valid) and tax filing rules for the state he lives in. I know his tax accountant and will work with that office to upload 1099s as VG and current insurance companies make them available this year, and with VG in all future and the final year.

All the above should make the final paperwork much easier.

FWIW, it was a complete pain getting a VG mutual fund trust account "upgraded" / "transitioned" into a trust brokerage account. They did not do a good job advising on what to do prior to the first and second paperwork attempts. Third time was a charm!
I wonder what happens to your legal ability to transact on your father's account when he passes?

FWIW, I am doing the same for my eldest daughter, the activity is for possible cognitive decline. DW and I have her for our DPOAs, but Vanguard wants their own form. No problem for us, I'll grease the skids as much as I can to make it easier for daughter.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

fourwheelcycle
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:55 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by fourwheelcycle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:14 pm

I am my elderly father's executor and DPOA for finances and health care. With agreement from him, and my siblings, the other heirs, I have set aside a portion of his savings in a joint Marcus savings account, with my father as the primary owner and me as the secondary owner. I have consolidated the rest of his savings at Vanguard, with me and my siblings as equal TOD beneficiaries. I have immediate access to the Marcus funds to settle my father's final obligations, including his income taxes.

For our own estate, my wife and I have placed all of our non-retirement savings in a joint revocable trust account at Vanguard. Vanguard has a copy of our trust, which names our son as the successor trustee. If we we both die, or when the second of us dies, our son will have immediate access to the joint trust - he only needs to give Vanguard a copy (or an original?) of our death certificate(s). If I die or become incompetent first my wife can name our son as a co-trustee, which will allow him to begin helping her manage our joint trust account at Vanguard. He will also be able to help with her other finances and income taxes.

JGoneRiding
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by JGoneRiding » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:29 pm

I sent the heirs an email (I have 6 to deal with) informing them there was no funds to pay the June mortgage. They decided to pay it together.

Do you mean as you are setting up the estate?

My aunt (i am probating it now) had everything set to auto pay! Despite informing the bank with in 7 days of her death and getting them a death cert the day the county finally released it (3 plus weeks) every auto pay went through! This was actually semi good and semi annoying but worked.

There is no good way to provide funds while waiting probate. If you leave an account directly to your executor then that money is their's and while helpful creates issues and they are not obligated to use it for the estate.

User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 11875
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 pm

My wife is the beneficiary of all accounts in my name. As soon as the institutions have my death certificate, the money is hers. No probate would be needed.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

User avatar
bengal22
Posts: 1750
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:20 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by bengal22 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am

I am co executor and power of attorney for my mom. All accounts are set up with me and my 2 siblings as beneficiaries. Her car is titled to her and TOD to me. Her funeral is prearranged and prepaid. Upon her passing, all assets will be divided equally by the financial institutions and mailed to the 3 of us once I give them a death certificate. If I hadn't sold the car yet I will sell it and divide proceeds 3 ways. I will pay for final 3 bills(small) and be reimbursed for their share. I will not file will with court. I will not do probate. I will not file estate taxes. I will file mom's taxes. Mom has 7 figures currently.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

bltn
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by bltn » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:09 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 pm
My wife is the beneficiary of all accounts in my name. As soon as the institutions have my death certificate, the money is hers. No probate would be needed.
Nice way to avoid probate without the need for trusts to accomplish this transfer.

Simplicity is usually a good thing.

JGoneRiding
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:12 am

bltn wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:09 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 pm
My wife is the beneficiary of all accounts in my name. As soon as the institutions have my death certificate, the money is hers. No probate would be needed.
Nice way to avoid probate without the need for trusts to accomplish this transfer.

Simplicity is usually a good thing.
Yes but what happens when the wife dies? You have it figured out for your death but at some point she will pass too.

JGoneRiding
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:15 am

bengal22 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am
I am co executor and power of attorney for my mom. All accounts are set up with me and my 2 siblings as beneficiaries. Her car is titled to her and TOD to me. Her funeral is prearranged and prepaid. Upon her passing, all assets will be divided equally by the financial institutions and mailed to the 3 of us once I give them a death certificate. If I hadn't sold the car yet I will sell it and divide proceeds 3 ways. I will pay for final 3 bills(small) and be reimbursed for their share. I will not file will with court. I will not do probate. I will not file estate taxes. I will file mom's taxes. Mom has 7 figures currently.
No house I take? I have decided that the kindest thing you can do for estate planning is having dealt with the house ahead of time. But that assumes you are old enough you no longer want to take care of a home.

Money in the bank and no house is definitely an easier situation . If my parents pass I have 4 properties to deal with! (Though one is easy it transfers directly to me)

User avatar
bengal22
Posts: 1750
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:20 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by bengal22 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:20 am

JGoneRiding wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:15 am
bengal22 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am
I am co executor and power of attorney for my mom. All accounts are set up with me and my 2 siblings as beneficiaries. Her car is titled to her and TOD to me. Her funeral is prearranged and prepaid. Upon her passing, all assets will be divided equally by the financial institutions and mailed to the 3 of us once I give them a death certificate. If I hadn't sold the car yet I will sell it and divide proceeds 3 ways. I will pay for final 3 bills(small) and be reimbursed for their share. I will not file will with court. I will not do probate. I will not file estate taxes. I will file mom's taxes. Mom has 7 figures currently.
No house I take? I have decided that the kindest thing you can do for estate planning is having dealt with the house ahead of time. But that assumes you are old enough you no longer want to take care of a home.

Money in the bank and no house is definitely an easier situation . If my parents pass I have 4 properties to deal with! (Though one is easy it transfers directly to me)
Yes Dad sold the house but if he had not we could have titled it TOD. But I have brothers that would not chest each other. I think trusts sometimes only benefit lawyers.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

malbecman
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:49 pm
Location: CA

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by malbecman » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:44 am

When my MIL passed away, her husband (FIL) made my spouse a joint owner on a checking acct for when he passes. My spouse is their
only progeny and executor and the understanding is that there is enough in there to handle estate expenses.

whomever
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:21 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by whomever » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:53 pm

"I have decided that the kindest thing you can do for estate planning is having dealt with the house ahead of time."

Some states have TOD deeds that work just like a TOD bank account (the mechanics of that were that after the last parent died, we (the kids named as TOD beneficiaries) sold the house by providing a death certificate at closing; that was all the paperwork required).

Topic Author
Broken Man 1999
Posts: 2934
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:06 pm

whomever wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:53 pm
"I have decided that the kindest thing you can do for estate planning is having dealt with the house ahead of time."

Some states have TOD deeds that work just like a TOD bank account (the mechanics of that were that after the last parent died, we (the kids named as TOD beneficiaries) sold the house by providing a death certificate at closing; that was all the paperwork required).
In my state (Florida), Ladybird Deeds might do the trick. I have done zero research, and only scanned a couple of internet articles. Of course that should be sufficient, as if it is on the internet, it must be true, right? :D

And, to further reduce my credibility (as if that is even needed), I DID NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

I do absolutely believe it is a kind thing to do, burdening your executor unnecessarily is just being lazy, in my mind.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

JGoneRiding
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by JGoneRiding » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:49 pm

whomever wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:53 pm
"I have decided that the kindest thing you can do for estate planning is having dealt with the house ahead of time."

Some states have TOD deeds that work just like a TOD bank account (the mechanics of that were that after the last parent died, we (the kids named as TOD beneficiaries) sold the house by providing a death certificate at closing; that was all the paperwork required).
That assumes you have heirs that can and will get along. Have you missed the 3 seperate nightmare threads where one won't sell? At least many in here told an heir to walk away from a 50k inheritance rather than deal with an unreasonable sibling.

I think tod is great if you have only 1 heir and otherwise a horrific idea.

SoonerD
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by SoonerD » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:08 pm

BrokenMan, before my father became ill with dementia my parents asked me to takeover their financials and day-to-day bill management. We got all the legal papers and they turned over the reins to me, as well as making me executor of their Will.

to manage their daily bills I got a new credit card in my mother's name and made myself an authorized user. This way if I needed to cover any expenses while they were alive I could easily transact as if it was my expense.

When they passed, my mother was the last, I didn't notify the credit card carrier until it was convenient for me. I continued to let her bills get auto-paid until I shut off each service.

This was likely a violation of the credit card terms but I don't care. It served me and no harm was done to the creditors. I'm not a fan of following rules just to have a perfect "permanent record" when I die.

The local bank let me come in to review any pending deposits or payments and an officer approved the transactions - things like depositing the insurance check before I had the court documents enabling the establishment of the "estate account" or paying the water bill that clearly was marked in her name and address.

I suggest elderly establish a joint credit card or bank account (with T.O.D.) to ensure some continuity of services. You're executor will need utilities on to sell the house, pay to repair the car to sell it, etc.

HereToLearn
Posts: 460
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:53 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by HereToLearn » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:18 pm

I was joint on my mother's checking & savings accounts. She had been keeping a lot of money there, but I transferred it over to her brokerage account so that she could earn at least a small amount of interest.

I should have retained more in the checking, as I ran through money fairly quickly paying for the funeral and luncheon, property taxes on the house, and utilities needed to keep the house running until I sold it. Fortunately the siblings were all on good terms, and each sent me a check to fund the joint account used to pay bills. They each received their share of brokerage and IRA accounts promptly.

I sent each sibling his share of the house proceeds as soon as the checks cleared. Still need to deal with closing out of probate (whatever that entails) and final tax filing, if we decide the carry through credits are worth the effort.

I had never heard of houses being TOD until I read about it here. Am guessing that is not an option in New York.

User avatar
LinusP
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 10:29 am

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by LinusP » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:32 pm

JGoneRiding wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:49 pm
whomever wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:53 pm
Some states have TOD deeds that work just like a TOD bank account (the mechanics of that were that after the last parent died, we (the kids named as TOD beneficiaries) sold the house by providing a death certificate at closing; that was all the paperwork required).
That assumes you have heirs that can and will get along. Have you missed the 3 seperate nightmare threads where one won't sell? At least many in here told an heir to walk away from a 50k inheritance rather than deal with an unreasonable sibling.

I think tod is great if you have only 1 heir and otherwise a horrific idea.
Not as big a deal for minor beneficiaries, I think. I'm planning on switching to a transfer-on-death (TOD) deed with our two minor children as beneficiaries, with their related guardian as custodian until age 21 (can do that in California). The custodian would most likely choose to sell on their behalf, with the proceeds just being added to their UTMA accounts.

We'd want to change the TOD designation if we stay in the house until the kids near 18, but we don't plan to be here that long. Of course, we also don't plan to die anytime soon. :wink:

User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 11875
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:56 pm

JGoneRiding wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:12 am
bltn wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:09 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 pm
My wife is the beneficiary of all accounts in my name. As soon as the institutions have my death certificate, the money is hers. No probate would be needed.
Nice way to avoid probate without the need for trusts to accomplish this transfer.

Simplicity is usually a good thing.
Yes but what happens when the wife dies? You have it figured out for your death but at some point she will pass too.
Our daughter is the second beneficiary, so neither of us has to do anything for her to inherit the assets. We do have a will in place anyway though, primarily to dictate what happens to our home and if something happens to all three of us.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:15 pm

bengal22 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am
I am co executor and power of attorney for my mom.

I will not file will with court.

I will not do probate.
I'm confused. Regardless of anything else, I believe that state laws absolutely require anybody who is in possession of a person's will to file it with the courts within a specified time period (e.g. 30 days). I don't believe it is a legal option to not file the will.

Also, while I understand that you may not need to probate the will, is a person truly a "co executor" if they haven't petitioned the courts for letters of appointment as part of a formal probate process? The IRS appears to recognize this possibility in the 1040 instructions:
If a taxpayer died before filing a return for 2018, the taxpayer's spouse or personal representative may have to file and sign a return for that taxpayer. A personal representative can be an executor, administrator, or anyone who is in charge of the deceased taxpayer's property.
It sounds more like you will just be skipping probate altogether and acting as "anyone who is in charge of the deceased taxpayer's property." I would be interested in hearing from the experts regarding an person who is nominated, via the will, to serve as executor but who doesn't initiate a probate process with the courts. I actually like this approach where possible. Simple and cheap are good things where they don't induce negative side effects.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:17 pm

JGoneRiding wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:49 pm
whomever wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:53 pm
"I have decided that the kindest thing you can do for estate planning is having dealt with the house ahead of time."

Some states have TOD deeds that work just like a TOD bank account (the mechanics of that were that after the last parent died, we (the kids named as TOD beneficiaries) sold the house by providing a death certificate at closing; that was all the paperwork required).
That assumes you have heirs that can and will get along. Have you missed the 3 seperate nightmare threads where one won't sell? At least many in here told an heir to walk away from a 50k inheritance rather than deal with an unreasonable sibling.

I think tod is great if you have only 1 heir and otherwise a horrific idea.
+1. I've read the threads and am convinced that even in "nice" families, this type of arrangement can go South very quickly. :oops:
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by FIREchief » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:20 pm

SoonerD wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:08 pm
BrokenMan, before my father became ill with dementia my parents asked me to takeover their financials and day-to-day bill management. We got all the legal papers and they turned over the reins to me, as well as making me executor of their Will.

to manage their daily bills I got a new credit card in my mother's name and made myself an authorized user. This way if I needed to cover any expenses while they were alive I could easily transact as if it was my expense.

When they passed, my mother was the last, I didn't notify the credit card carrier until it was convenient for me. I continued to let her bills get auto-paid until I shut off each service.

This was likely a violation of the credit card terms but I don't care. It served me and no harm was done to the creditors. I'm not a fan of following rules just to have a perfect "permanent record" when I die.

The local bank let me come in to review any pending deposits or payments and an officer approved the transactions - things like depositing the insurance check before I had the court documents enabling the establishment of the "estate account" or paying the water bill that clearly was marked in her name and address.

I suggest elderly establish a joint credit card or bank account (with T.O.D.) to ensure some continuity of services. You're executor will need utilities on to sell the house, pay to repair the car to sell it, etc.
Did you consider setting up a living trust? It can simplify some of these things, especially with some level of incapacitation.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

WannabeAgAlum
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by WannabeAgAlum » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:01 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:56 pm
JGoneRiding wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:12 am
bltn wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:09 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 pm
My wife is the beneficiary of all accounts in my name. As soon as the institutions have my death certificate, the money is hers. No probate would be needed.
Nice way to avoid probate without the need for trusts to accomplish this transfer.

Simplicity is usually a good thing.
Yes but what happens when the wife dies? You have it figured out for your death but at some point she will pass too.
Our daughter is the second beneficiary, so neither of us has to do anything for her to inherit the assets. We do have a will in place anyway though, primarily to dictate what happens to our home and if something happens to all three of us.
I'm sure you thought ithrough this, but if/when your wife remarries after your death, her new spouse will thrilled that you kept things simple.

Wannabe

User avatar
willthrill81
Posts: 11875
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:17 pm
Location: USA

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:02 pm

WannabeAgAlum wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:01 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:56 pm
JGoneRiding wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:12 am
bltn wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:09 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 pm
My wife is the beneficiary of all accounts in my name. As soon as the institutions have my death certificate, the money is hers. No probate would be needed.
Nice way to avoid probate without the need for trusts to accomplish this transfer.

Simplicity is usually a good thing.
Yes but what happens when the wife dies? You have it figured out for your death but at some point she will pass too.
Our daughter is the second beneficiary, so neither of us has to do anything for her to inherit the assets. We do have a will in place anyway though, primarily to dictate what happens to our home and if something happens to all three of us.
I'm sure you thought ithrough this, but if/when your wife remarries after your death, her new spouse will thrilled that you kept things simple.

Wannabe
That's no concern whatsoever of mine.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

User avatar
bengal22
Posts: 1750
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:20 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by bengal22 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:49 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:15 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am
I am co executor and power of attorney for my mom.

I will not file will with court.

I will not do probate.
I'm confused. Regardless of anything else, I believe that state laws absolutely require anybody who is in possession of a person's will to file it with the courts within a specified time period (e.g. 30 days). I don't believe it is a legal option to not file the will.

Also, while I understand that you may not need to probate the will, is a person truly a "co executor" if they haven't petitioned the courts for letters of appointment as part of a formal probate process? The IRS appears to recognize this possibility in the 1040 instructions:

You are right. I was named co-executor in the will but I am not truly a co-executor until the court deems me a co-executor. I do not believe in Ohio you are legally required to file a will to probate court. But in my case me and my brothers get a long well enough to handle the few bills that will need paid. We will pre pay funeral so the only expenses will be prorated health insurance, cell phone.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by FIREchief » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:41 am

bengal22 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:49 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:15 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am
I am co executor and power of attorney for my mom.

I will not file will with court.

I will not do probate.
I'm confused. Regardless of anything else, I believe that state laws absolutely require anybody who is in possession of a person's will to file it with the courts within a specified time period (e.g. 30 days). I don't believe it is a legal option to not file the will.
I do not believe in Ohio you are legally required to file a will to probate court.
That's interesting. I guess I learned something.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

fourwheelcycle
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:55 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by fourwheelcycle » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:54 am

FIREchief wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:41 am
bengal22 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:49 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:15 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am
I am co executor and power of attorney for my mom.

I will not file will with court.

I will not do probate.
I'm confused. Regardless of anything else, I believe that state laws absolutely require anybody who is in possession of a person's will to file it with the courts within a specified time period (e.g. 30 days). I don't believe it is a legal option to not file the will.
I do not believe in Ohio you are legally required to file a will to probate court.
That's interesting. I guess I learned something.
This thread got me worried. I have most of my elderly father's savings set up at Vanguard with equal share TOD assignments for his heirs - me and my siblings, with about ten percent set up in a joint bank account with me that I will use for his final expenses, then split the balance with my siblings. The only items left will be his apartment contents and his car, all going to charity. I assumed with this setup I would not need to probate his will.

This thread made me check again. In his state a will does not need to be submitted for probate if the estate is under $15K.

User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 8413
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:18 am

I guess you are describing a situation where there are no liquid funds available in the estate, but there are expenses that need to be covered. I am assuming the estate has sufficient illiquid assets.

I think the kosher thing to do is to arrange a loan to the estate. If I was the executor and had the required liquid funds then I might make a personal loan to the estate. I would need to put the terms of the loan in writing (duration and interest rate). I'd probably just use the IRS AFR as the interest rate.

But the executor could arrange a loan from a bank or other source. The executor is required to do everythiing in accordance with laws and regulations.

The entity providing the loan would just be another creditor of the estate that is paid off before the estate is divided as are other creditors.

But maybe you mean the heirs (as opposed to the estate) are short of ready money? That could be addressed via a legal loan as well.

NoblesvilleIN
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:04 pm
Location: Noblesville IN

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by NoblesvilleIN » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:49 am

I was the executor for my parent's estate. When my mother passed, my dad was worried about how to pay for the funeral because he had most of their money in CD's and did not want to break one early. My brother and I both offered to front dad the money (me from our HELC, brother from his checking account). My brother ended up covering the funeral and dad paid him back a couple months later when a CD matured. Dad passed about a year after mom and we had the same issue. Brother again paid for funeral out of his checking account and I paid other expenses (property tax, bills) out of my checking account. I reimbursed my brother and myself from the estate when a CD matured a couple months later.

My parents had a revocable living trust with me as the executor. Getting access to their checking account at a local branch of a large bank was easy. I think the funeral home gave me several original death certificates on the day of the funeral. Within a week I had myself added to the checking account and was able to pay bills. After my mom had passed and dad had a short hospital stay that was fairly serious, I asked him to add me as an authorized user (if that is the correct term) to his checking account so that I could pay bills if he was hospitalized again. My father was a procrastinator and never got around to taking the paperwork to the bank.

What made this work is that my brother and I get along and agree on most things. We also both were/are financially stable with access to sufficient funds to cover. I kept a spreadsheet of income, expenses, locations of investments, and disbursements. Periodically I would email a copy to my brother so that he would know what was going on. It also helped that I lived only 10 miles or so from my parents.

If you want to make things easier for you daughters, strongly consider adding one to a checking and a savings account as an authorized user (not TOD) to pay bills. If you really want to make things easier on your daughters, clean out your basement!!! Dealing with the finances was easy compared to cleaning out my parents house. Its been about 10 years since they passed and my wife and I are consciously getting rid of stuff so we don't stick it on the kids.

fru-gal
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:48 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by fru-gal » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:27 am

I have a revocable living trust, which makes a lot of the problems described above go away.

Chip
Posts: 2549
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:57 am

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by Chip » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:08 am

FIREchief wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:15 pm
It sounds more like you will just be skipping probate altogether and acting as "anyone who is in charge of the deceased taxpayer's property." I would be interested in hearing from the experts regarding an person who is nominated, via the will, to serve as executor but who doesn't initiate a probate process with the courts. I actually like this approach where possible. Simple and cheap are good things where they don't induce negative side effects.
Not an expert, but I filled the role you're describing with a family member's estate. There was a will; I was to be executor (also a beneficiary). All financial assets passed via POD designations. There was no real estate and the remaining assets qualified under California's small estate provisions. According to the estate attorney I consulted, the will did not have to be filed with the county, but we did it anyway ($20 fee). I did not initiate a probate process. The other beneficiary and I got along well. We paid all the (small) debts of the deceased out of our personal accounts and settled up with each other after all monies due the deceased had been collected.

We had quite a few checks that came to us made out to the deceased. Since there was no estate account and no executor we filed notarized affidavits with each payor under the CA small estate provisions, stating that we were the beneficiaries and requesting that the check be reissued, half to each of us. Sometimes that worked, sometimes we only received one check in one name. That required tracking, of course.

We used IRS Form 1310 to request the final 1040 refund be issued to one of us. While it was filed correctly, it became hung up in some kind of IRS ID theft prevention morass and took over a year to get after multiple calls & letters. But we received over 3% interest on the eventual payment, so it wasn't so bad.

It probably wouldn't have worked without cooperating and trusting beneficiaries.

User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 8413
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:15 am

JGoneRiding wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:49 pm
That assumes you have heirs that can and will get along. Have you missed the 3 separate nightmare threads where one won't sell? At least many in here told an heir to walk away from a 50k inheritance rather than deal with an unreasonable sibling.

I think tod is great if you have only 1 heir and otherwise a horrific idea.
The law says that any of the owners of a jointly owned property has a right to sell their portion of the property. You can force a sale if need be. At least that's the law in NC.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, not horrific or a nightmare, except you may get a relative mad at you. Many arrangements that families get huffy about are in fact governed by laws and regulations that require fairness.

In my case, I learned this from a lawyer while reviewing a few current and potential legal issues that cost me a one-hour legal fee. I just casually mentioned this to my brother years before we ended up inheriting a farm jointly. He seemed a bit surprised and gave me a long look. But years later when we inherited, he had no problem with dividing the farm so I could sell half. I had probably set the stage for it all to go smoothly.

I have found that just going to a lawyer and learning everyone's rights is a good idea. There are two inheritance-related "horrific nightmares" going on currently in my family. In both cases, people are upset with each other and not even one of these people (including executors) have bothered to determine their rights or responsibilities under the law. In some case, you can get the answer with a simple google search.

JGoneRiding
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by JGoneRiding » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:05 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:18 am
I guess you are describing a situation where there are no liquid funds available in the estate, but there are expenses that need to be covered. I am assuming the estate has sufficient illiquid assets.

I think the kosher thing to do is to arrange a loan to the estate. If I was the executor and had the required liquid funds then I might make a personal loan to the estate. I would need to put the terms of the loan in writing (duration and interest rate). I'd probably just use the IRS AFR as the interest rate.

But the executor could arrange a loan from a bank or other source. The executor is required to do everythiing in accordance with laws and regulations.

The entity providing the loan would just be another creditor of the estate that is paid off before the estate is divided as are other creditors.

But maybe you mean the heirs (as opposed to the estate) are short of ready money? That could be addressed via a legal loan as well.
In our case there was about 5k liquid and the rest of the estate is tied uo in the home. I was told by the lawyer to simply not pay Bill's that arent nec to keep the house functioning. In order of priority those are insurance, electricity, water. I almost skipped the mortgage payment itself but the heirs (i am not one) asked to pay it so they all contributed (only a couple 100 each). While that isn't quiet right. The auto pay for the mortgage went through for 2 months so then we had less funds available and it was the last month I was going to skip.

Other bills that don't affect the house per lawyer instructions are all on hold until the house sells and we can be 100% assured that the estate is solvent.

I can tell you its unlikely to get a loan as a PR unless you are willing to put your name and credit on it. I would never do this!

JGoneRiding
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by JGoneRiding » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:11 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:15 am
JGoneRiding wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:49 pm
That assumes you have heirs that can and will get along. Have you missed the 3 separate nightmare threads where one won't sell? At least many in here told an heir to walk away from a 50k inheritance rather than deal with an unreasonable sibling.

I think tod is great if you have only 1 heir and otherwise a horrific idea.
The law says that any of the owners of a jointly owned property has a right to sell their portion of the property. You can force a sale if need be. At least that's the law in NC.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, not horrific or a nightmare, except you may get a relative mad at you. Many arrangements that families get huffy about are in fact governed by laws and regulations that require fairness.

In my case, I learned this from a lawyer while reviewing a few current and potential legal issues that cost me a one-hour legal fee. I just casually mentioned this to my brother years before we ended up inheriting a farm jointly. He seemed a bit surprised and gave me a long look. But years later when we inherited, he had no problem with dividing the farm so I could sell half. I had probably set the stage for it all to go smoothly.

I have found that just going to a lawyer and learning everyone's rights is a good idea. There are two inheritance-related "horrific nightmares" going on currently in my family. In both cases, people are upset with each other and not even one of these people (including executors) have bothered to determine their rights or responsibilities under the law. In some case, you can get the answer with a simple google search.
Did you read the threads? I 100% agree you have the "right" but you have to force that right not simply execute it like you would normally to sell. That means hiring a lawyer and going to a judge to force the issue. That costs money and causes tension. For some it is worth it for others it isn't. I would do it if my parents don't get their act together and finish their wills and we inherit intrastate. But way easier not to have to deal with my brother and be legally allowed to sell as I see fit, which would be the case as executor.

User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 8413
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:19 pm

JGoneRiding wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:05 pm
In our case there was about 5k liquid and the rest of the estate is tied uo in the home. I was told by the lawyer to simply not pay Bill's that arent nec to keep the house functioning. In order of priority those are insurance, electricity, water. I almost skipped the mortgage payment itself but the heirs (i am not one) asked to pay it so they all contributed (only a couple 100 each). While that isn't quiet right. The auto pay for the mortgage went through for 2 months so then we had less funds available and it was the last month I was going to skip.

Other bills that don't affect the house per lawyer instructions are all on hold until the house sells and we can be 100% assured that the estate is solvent.

I can tell you its unlikely to get a loan as a PR unless you are willing to put your name and credit on it. I would never do this!
What do you mean by PR?

I am suggesting the executor sign as the executor. The executor is a role. I think the executor functions as a representative of the courts under the authority of the courts. You are not really putting your name on it. The borrower is the estate, not the executor.

You are indirectly responsible for the actions you take as an executor. Your actions have to conform to the rules and the regs.

Heck, there are probably circumstances where you (the person) could be sued or, more likely, removed as an executor because you chose not to get a loan! The court might determine that you should be stripped of the role.

User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 8413
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:14 pm

JGoneRiding wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:11 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:15 am
JGoneRiding wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:49 pm
That assumes you have heirs that can and will get along. Have you missed the 3 separate nightmare threads where one won't sell? At least many in here told an heir to walk away from a 50k inheritance rather than deal with an unreasonable sibling.

I think tod is great if you have only 1 heir and otherwise a horrific idea.
The law says that any of the owners of a jointly owned property has a right to sell their portion of the property. You can force a sale if need be. At least that's the law in NC.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, not horrific or a nightmare, except you may get a relative mad at you. Many arrangements that families get huffy about are in fact governed by laws and regulations that require fairness.

In my case, I learned this from a lawyer while reviewing a few current and potential legal issues that cost me a one-hour legal fee. I just casually mentioned this to my brother years before we ended up inheriting a farm jointly. He seemed a bit surprised and gave me a long look. But years later when we inherited, he had no problem with dividing the farm so I could sell half. I had probably set the stage for it all to go smoothly.

I have found that just going to a lawyer and learning everyone's rights is a good idea. There are two inheritance-related "horrific nightmares" going on currently in my family. In both cases, people are upset with each other and not even one of these people (including executors) have bothered to determine their rights or responsibilities under the law. In some case, you can get the answer with a simple google search.
Did you read the threads? I 100% agree you have the "right" but you have to force that right not simply execute it like you would normally to sell. That means hiring a lawyer and going to a judge to force the issue. That costs money and causes tension. For some it is worth it for others it isn't. I would do it if my parents don't get their act together and finish their wills and we inherit intrastate. But way easier not to have to deal with my brother and be legally allowed to sell as I see fit, which would be the case as executor.
An executor would cause family tension by selling the property instead of passing in on to the heirs jointly. But it is a more efficient way to cause tension, no court hearing required.

To avoid blame directed at executor (and dependence on who is the executor), I think a will can explicitly specify that the property is to be sold.

User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 8413
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:31 pm

JGoneRiding wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:05 pm
I almost skipped the mortgage payment itself but the heirs (i am not one) asked to pay it so they all contributed (only a couple 100 each). While that isn't quiet right.
Why was it not quite right? I think that would just be a gift to the estate, not inherently wrong. How did you account for it in the required probate filings? Or did you just leave it out of the filings? How did you account for it in settling the estate and distributing the estate to the heirs? Did you pay it back to the heirs?

(I know it is minor, just curious about what you are thinking.)

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by FIREchief » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:08 pm

NoblesvilleIN wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:49 am
If you really want to make things easier on your daughters, clean out your basement!!! Dealing with the finances was easy compared to cleaning out my parents house. Its been about 10 years since they passed and my wife and I are consciously getting rid of stuff so we don't stick it on the kids.
Amen. And while you're at it, if at all possible, sell that house sitting on the basement. Don't leave the whole works for your heirs to deal with. We recently decluttered and downsized (50% reduction in sq ft). Hard work but very liberating.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

kaudrey
Posts: 1017
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by kaudrey » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:35 pm

NoblesvilleIN wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:49 am
If you really want to make things easier on your daughters, clean out your basement!!! Dealing with the finances was easy compared to cleaning out my parents house. Its been about 10 years since they passed and my wife and I are consciously getting rid of stuff so we don't stick it on the kids.
This made me laugh. My father has been an antique tool collector his whole adult life; he is now 82. Every time I visit my parents (including last week), he shows me which displays have gotten smaller and which collections are in the garage ready to go to the auction house. He has some rare, well-restored specimens for which I have instructions to call a dealer in Michigan (my parents live in New Hampshire!), who has already said he'll come pick them up when the time comes. Sigh....

bayview
Posts: 1802
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:05 pm
Location: WNC

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by bayview » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:12 pm

Any suggestions for how much cash to have in a dedicated joint account for final expenses?

This is assuming no mortgage, all bills current, x months of utilities and homeowners insurance, prepaid “final expenses” (uh, I hate the euphemisms of the funeral industry), current on any healthcare expenses, no ugly surprises. Bequests already known with money set aside.

Does $20k seem reasonable, with any leftovers shared among beneficiaries? I have no clue where to start with this.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

NotWhoYouThink
Posts: 2596
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:19 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:28 pm

Depends on what you want. BIL spent about $3K max on FIL's cremation and service. FIL left a $25K insurance policy that a handwritten note said was for final expenses. My suggestion to have the memorial on a beach in Hawaii was not acted upon.

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by FIREchief » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:38 pm

bayview wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:12 pm
Any suggestions for how much cash to have in a dedicated joint account for final expenses?

This is assuming no mortgage, all bills current, x months of utilities and homeowners insurance, prepaid “final expenses” (uh, I hate the euphemisms of the funeral industry), current on any healthcare expenses, no ugly surprises. Bequests already known with money set aside.

Does $20k seem reasonable, with any leftovers shared among beneficiaries? I have no clue where to start with this.
That's a great question. I would also add in legal fees, if the estate warrants legal assistance. I would expect the complexity of the estate to be a key variable. Apartment dweller with modest personal property, maybe $10K. Homeowner (or multiple homeowner) with deferred maintenance? Maybe $30K (or more). If the house won't sell until the roof and HVAC are replaced, then the executor will need some $$$. Lot's of other factors. Personally, we've been on a downsizing mission since FIRE and our heirs could likely wrap up our affairs without legal assistance (no need for probate) and minor final bills (cremation and simple celebration of life event, lease that can be cancelled, single paid-for car owned by living trust, modest/liquid personal property, etc.) No boats, cabins, collectables, rentals, complex investments, business interests, large debts, etc.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 6665
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by prudent » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:58 pm

I don't think there HAS to be enough to cover everything that may be needed to wrap up an estate. Funeral homes will give 30 days to pay - by that time life insurance proceeds should be in hand, and once the executor/representative has been established then all assets are available. My friend who I mentioned upthread just let bills accumulate until he could get control of financial assets told me it wasn't a problem to wait a month. Nobody shut off utilities, filed foreclosure, or repossessed vehicles that quickly.

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3380
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by FIREchief » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:44 pm

prudent wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:58 pm
I don't think there HAS to be enough to cover everything that may be needed to wrap up an estate. Funeral homes will give 30 days to pay - by that time life insurance proceeds should be in hand, and once the executor/representative has been established then all assets are available.
I think a lot of the answers were ignoring the "short-term" reference, assuming that whatever was there at the beginning would be the only liquid assets for perhaps months, or until some real estate was sold which could be much longer. If the vast majority of assets are POD/TOD, then there may not be any liquid (or otherwise) assets that later become "available." Are you assuming that life insurance would identify the estate as the primary beneficiary?

Are there really funeral homes that don't require payment up front?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

bayview
Posts: 1802
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:05 pm
Location: WNC

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by bayview » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:54 pm

I’m fortunate (I guess; I’d like to have had a sibling) to be the successor trustee plus the executor of any residual estate. I doubt that there will be any pushback from the other beneficiaries (my children), especially as the trust specifically says that anyone who challenges any provision of the trust would be cut out. lol Doubtful that this would happen, as I feel that my charge is to continue to pass on the family mini-wealth, but life is full of surprises, I guess.

I’m POD/TOD on all bank accounts and brokerage accounts, so I don’t anticipate any problems in paying for final expenses, but I do like having things tidy in advance. Plus there is the “general principle” angle.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

HereToLearn
Posts: 460
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:53 pm

Re: Short-term money needs for Executor of Estate

Post by HereToLearn » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:59 pm

bayview wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:12 pm
Any suggestions for how much cash to have in a dedicated joint account for final expenses?

This is assuming no mortgage, all bills current, x months of utilities and homeowners insurance, prepaid “final expenses” (uh, I hate the euphemisms of the funeral industry), current on any healthcare expenses, no ugly surprises. Bequests already known with money set aside.

Does $20k seem reasonable, with any leftovers shared among beneficiaries? I have no clue where to start with this.
As others have responded, it depends on what the executor will need to do.

Ignoring funeral expenses, I spent between $15K & $20K on property taxes, utilities, outstanding CC bills, legal fees for probate of the house, and money to junk lugger to haul away furniture that could not be donated. House bills added up: home heating oil, electric, internet so that alarm could still operate, lawn/leaf/snow maintenance, etc.

We invested a lot of sweat equity in cleaning out the contents of the house, but did not need to spend any money to repair as it was sold as is.

I had expenses to pay that most would not experience: final payroll to home health aides, taxes to payroll company who handled remitting quarterly state & federal income taxes, reclamation of pension payment, and accountant fee for slightly complicated tax filing due to home aide employment.

Post Reply