Recommend an American medium size car

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sil2017
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Recommend an American medium size car

Post by sil2017 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:53 pm

My friend has a Monte Carlos 2000 which finally came to its end with too many servicing.
He wants to buy a 1 year to 3 year old American medium size car. He wants a 2 doors car.
Any good value and reliable car you can recommend? Also I suggested Carnax as it has a no haggle price . Good or not advice.
Thank you

Starfish
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Starfish » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:59 pm

Haha, first:
Toyota Camry. Made in Kentucky. Possible more american than Italian Chryslers and Mexican Fords.

:D

random_walker_77
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by random_walker_77 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:01 pm

American brand (possibly mostly made in Mexico)? Or w/ the largest percentage made in the usa?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/autos/sc ... story.html

Teague
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Teague » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:05 pm

Depending on how one defines a car as being "American" that may be harder than it seems. My Dodge (now Ram) truck was built in the U.S. by a company headquartered in Italy. The engine was built in Mexico and the transmission was designed and built in Germany. Lots of other parts come from other countries. So what does that make it?
Semper Augustus

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tainted-meat
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by tainted-meat » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:08 pm

There are deals to be had on new Chevy Malibu’s. Slick looking car for the money in my opinion.

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Watty
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Watty » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:22 pm

Just FYI Ford is pretty much getting out of the car building business and they are about the only "American" brand that I would consider. GM is also significantly cutting back on cars.

That does not affect trucks and SUVs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/ford-is ... ehind.html

Even if a current model is still available I would be cautious about buying a model that will soon be discontinued.

westie
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by westie » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:42 pm

if he wants a good American car may I suggest a 2 year old Mercedes.

quantAndHold
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:43 pm

Honda Accord (made in Ohio)
Toyota Camry (Kentucky).
Subaru Legacy (Indiana)
Volkswagen Passat (Tennessee)
Hyundai Sonata (Alabama)
Kia Optima (Georgia)
Nissan Altima (Tennessee, Mississippi)
Mazda6 (Michigan)

“American” manufacturers have mostly given up on building cars. The only one I could find was the Chevy Malibu. Ford Fusion is (was) made in Mexico.

quantAndHold
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:51 pm

Oh, wait. I missed that he wants a 2 door.

Cadillac ATS
Honda Accord

Those are the only ones I could find that are made in the US.

ssquared87
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by ssquared87 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:55 pm

Seems like every poster above me ignored OPs desire for a 2 door car

Camaro and mustang are both assembled in the US and made by American companies. They’re also excellent vehicles. From my experience I prefer the camaro over the mustang. Mustang is easier to see out of and has a better interior but the camaro has a far better suspension and reminds me quite a bit of older BMWs. The balance between comfort and sport is excellent and the steering feel is engaging and refined.

quantAndHold
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:02 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:55 pm
Seems like every poster above me ignored OPs desire for a 2 door car

Camaro and mustang are both assembled in the US and made by American companies. They’re also excellent vehicles. From my experience I prefer the camaro over the mustang. Mustang is easier to see out of and has a better interior but the camaro has a far better suspension and reminds me quite a bit of older BMWs. The balance between comfort and sport is excellent and the steering feel is engaging and refined.
More muscle car than the midsize coupe that OP’s friend seems to prefer, but at least they meet the 2-door criteria.

There are a lot of European and Asian 2 door, midsize coupes, but they aren’t made here. Probably not much of a market for them.

FireProof
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by FireProof » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:46 am

Maybe he wants a used American car because of their high depreciation, not out of nationalism?

unstartable
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by unstartable » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:12 am

I've owned 5 vehicles and 4 of them have been coupes.

Choices that I haven't seen above:
CTS Coupe, discontinued after 2014, so a bit older than op wanted
Dodge Challenger

If you go the Mustang or Camaro route, I would think twice about a formal rental. There seems to be a lot of V6 Mustangs and Camaros on the used market that were rentals.

Other non-American options that I haven't seen mentioned:
Civic, Nissan Altima Coupe (now discontinued), various Audi and BMW cars, Hyundai Genesis coupe (now discontinued), a hatchback

If this is a union thing, all cars made in Germany are made by union workers, as well as the Audis made in Hungary.

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yatesd
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by yatesd » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:13 am

Plus, the fact that most people seem to be missing is American owned is significantly different than just American made. Only two American owned brands remain...GM and Ford. As others have noted, 2 doors are increasingly rare. Perhaps a Buick Lacrosse or a Chevy Impala will feel familiar to someone who previously owned a Monte Carlo.

rooms222
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by rooms222 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:27 am

The two door Dodge Challenger. I think it most closely matches the Monte Carlo, especially in ride characteristics, something that has been important to the Monte Carlo owners I know. They want two doors, a car of a certain size, and accepting of a certain way to drive,

Our personal experience with FCA (Dodge/Chrysler) products has been good. My Daughter's Dodge Intrepid is going strong with over 200 thousand miles. It's not the car I would have chosen, but it has been doing alright. She said that after she got used to it as it was a hand me down from her brother who chose it, she likes it's ride characteristics (at 19). I would consider the ride characteristics semi-boat like, but that is the traditional American-car handling, slightly toned down.

The other car that has the ride characteristics that is a better deal than the Challenger is the Chrysler 300. It has more technology and I am seeing some 2018s with around 30,000 miles for $15-16 thousand dollars. He should at least test drive one to compare. I found it growing on me when I drove a rental 2000 miles in one week. Good deal https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/deta ... /overview/

Ron
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Ron » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:27 am

For me, the term "American" means where the profit goes on the initial sale of a new car; it does not apply to used vehicles.

You can buy a Mustang, assembled in Mexico (as mine is), with the profit going back to the "home country" of Ford - e.g. the USA.

You can buy a Subaru manufactured in the U.S. (as my wife's is), with the profit going offshore (Japan).

Sure, you can say that a vehicle that is assembled in whatever country is that countries "brand"; for me, it's where the profit goes and where the investor gets a benefit of holding that companies shares (by direct investment or via a ETF/Mutual fund). My Mustang is a US brand while my wife's Subaru is a foreign brand, with profits going back to Japan.

I retired after almost three decades from a company that currently has assembly/design operations in the US, with ownership evolving over many years from strictly a US conglomerate to totally foreign (Euro zone) owned. From my strict interpretation (as an investor and also as an employee), I always looked at where the initial profit on a vehicle went to, by country, regardless of where it is/was manufactured. I worked for both a US company and a foreign company without changing my work mail address, over many years.

Just my view of the subject, FWIW.

- Ron

azanon
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by azanon » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:38 am

sil2017 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:53 pm
My friend has a Monte Carlos 2000 which finally came to its end with too many servicing.
He wants to buy a 1 year to 3 year old American medium size car. He wants a 2 doors car.
Any good value and reliable car you can recommend? Also I suggested Carnax as it has a no haggle price . Good or not advice.
Thank you
Honda Accord. Definitely IMO the best american mid-sized on the road. Car and Driver top 10 31 years in a row, I believe.

itsgot8
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by itsgot8 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:12 am

OP,
What is your friend's intent with the car? Is it for fun or a daily driver? I'm assuming DD since they are coming out of a 2000 Monte. Other than the performance cars people listed, I can't think of a regular two door American car other than a Cadillac ATS coupe, that is one to three years old. I'm not sure if Ford Fusions come in coupes or are sedans only.

randomguy
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by randomguy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:42 am

FireProof wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:46 am
Maybe he wants a used American car because of their high depreciation, not out of nationalism?
The depreciation is all at buying time when you pick one up for 20% off MSRP. Depreciation after that isn't really that high.

If you defintion of american is GM, ford, or maybe Chrysler if your being generous, it is pretty darn easy to go to the websites of those makers and see the 3 or 4 midsized coupes that exist. It isn't a very big market. Mustang, Camaro, ats/CTS and challenger are pretty much the market for midsized coupe and other than maybe the CTS none of them are really similar car to a monte carlo. It should only take a couple hours to test drive them all and see which ones meet your needs.

And FWIW when I buy a BMW the profits don't go to Germany. They go into my pocket:) And I can assure you that the people in Chattanooga really prefer you to buy the Atlas versus some Mexican made car that keep some CEO's salary high but doesn't give them a decent job. I wonder if in China if they have debates like this about if it is OK to buy an iPhone:) .

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dm200
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by dm200 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:05 am

I suppose it depends on the reason(s) for having an "American" car.

Even though a particular Toyota, Honda, etc. may be manufactured in the US, it is not an "American" nameplate - such as Ford. Chevrolet, etc. Some employers or associations (such as labor unions) may 'demand" employees, associates, etc. drive US "nameplate" cars.

NHRATA01
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by NHRATA01 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:28 pm

Sounds like he wants a mid/large "personal coupe" which once the Monte Carlo was put to pasture, hasn't existed at GM. You can get the pony cars, 2 door ATS, Buick Cascada (convertible) and that's about it.

I also pretty much stick with the American brands but I have to say, the Accord Coupe is probably about as close as you would get to that Monte Carlo, FWD and somewhat roomy, a bit more cruising oriented than performance oriented like the pony cars and ATS.

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Watty
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Watty » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:23 pm

randomguy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:42 am
The depreciation is all at buying time when you pick one up for 20% off MSRP. Depreciation after that isn't really that high.
Many cars are bought for 20% or more off of the MSRP.

Even with an American car you would have a hard time buying a six month old car for 20% less than than you could by it for new(not the MSRP)

Ron
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Ron » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:33 pm

randomguy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:42 am
<snip...> And FWIW when I buy a BMW the profits don't go to Germany. They go into my pocket:).
How do you figure that?

If you work as a supplier to the BMW plant, your cost is part of the MSRP.

If you work as an assembler in the plant, your cost is part of the MSRP (labor, material, burden costs).

If you sell the final product (e.g. dealership), your "product" is already bought/paid for when it leaves the plant and financed via floor-plan until there is a sale to the customer. There is a dealer profit, but that has nothing to do with the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer).

Color me confused...

- Ron

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DanMahowny
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by DanMahowny » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:06 pm

Stay away from CarMax.

"No haggle" pricing just means that they will give you a rip off price, and you're not allowed to counter offer.
Funding secured

randomguy
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by randomguy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:10 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:23 pm
randomguy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:42 am
The depreciation is all at buying time when you pick one up for 20% off MSRP. Depreciation after that isn't really that high.
Many cars are bought for 20% or more off of the MSRP.

Even with an American car you would have a hard time buying a six month old car for 20% less than than you could by it for new(not the MSRP)
Which is why used often doesn't make sense. Buying a 30k for 20k when it is 2 years old sounds like a lot if depreciation. But when you can buy it new for 24k and drive for 2 years, it isn't as screaming of a deal. EVs are the other place where this shows up. A 35k depreciating to 15 sounds really bad. 20k after discounts and tax credits to 15k isn't that drastic of depreciation.

randomguy
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by randomguy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:13 pm

Ron wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:33 pm
randomguy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:42 am
<snip...> And FWIW when I buy a BMW the profits don't go to Germany. They go into my pocket:).
How do you figure that?

If you work as a supplier to the BMW plant, your cost is part of the MSRP.

If you work as an assembler in the plant, your cost is part of the MSRP (labor, material, burden costs).

If you sell the final product (e.g. dealership), your "product" is already bought/paid for when it leaves the plant and financed via floor-plan until there is a sale to the customer. There is a dealer profit, but that has nothing to do with the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer).

Color me confused...

- Ron
I own BMW. Those profits either get invested in a business I own or distributed to me.

It isn't about profits. It is about middle class white collar jobs versus blue collar ones. Buying an American car made in Mexico doesn't help US manufacturing jobs. Might employee more engineers and accounts. The German car in the US is the reverse. And yes that is very simplistic also.

Ron
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Ron » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:38 pm

randomguy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:13 pm
I own BMW. Those profits either get invested in a business I own or distributed to me.
Then you own BMW, which is listed under Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschafton on the German Market - not in the US.

As I said, profits (and of course losses) go back to the "mother/fatherland" assuming they are not held captive in the local market due to tax situations as many US firms have done with foreign profits, until the latest tax changes (but we won't go there 8-) ).

Those profits you have held in your pocket still came from a foreign firm.

Don't confuse advantages of manufacturing locally (such as many models from foreign based companies) and the advantage of providing American workers an income. My answer concerns strictly where the profit flows to (for further distribution). That being the case, a foreign badged vehicle, made in the US, still has its manufacturing profit returned to a foreign owner.

- Ron

vu8
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by vu8 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:39 pm

Toyota Camry, Honda Accord... If you want quality and your car to last long without breaking down because of planned obsolescence

srt7
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by srt7 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:02 pm

American coupe (and convertibles too!)

Chevy Corvette
Chevy Camaro
Ford Mustang
Cadillac XLR (or something like that ... not sure if they still make them)
I can't think of anything more luxurious than owning my time. - remomnyc

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sunny_socal
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by sunny_socal » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:12 pm

Camry for a softer ride, Accord for a 'sporty' ride.

/thread

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whodidntante
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by whodidntante » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:30 pm

The car you're thinking of isn't made anymore. Car magazines convinced the public that any good car needs to handle like a European sports sedan, with taught suspension, a double overhead cam engine, bolstered stiff seats, and an intrusive center console. A comfortable car is a sign of poor design and a deficient thought process.

Starfish
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by Starfish » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:06 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:06 pm
Stay away from CarMax.

"No haggle" pricing just means that they will give you a rip off price, and you're not allowed to counter offer.
It's also amazing to me how many people are willing to give up thousands of dollar because of a little haggling. It's not that hard, nowadays you do it through email.
Besides, who buys used cars from dealers?

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dm200
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Re: Recommend an American medium size car

Post by dm200 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:52 am

Interesting (from my observations) that, today, there seem to be many more 4 door cars than decades ago - when there were lots of two door models. Often, the same model was offered in two or four door versions.

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