I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

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AerialWombat
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by AerialWombat » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:32 pm

Before buying, I might suggest renting several for a while. Check out Mile High Rides since you’re in Denver. They have a good rental selection.
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mortfree
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by mortfree » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:17 pm

Great thread. These car questions always bring out all interesting view points.

As a corvette fan I have gone through most of the thoughts that people have shared. I do not own one and probably never will for various reasons.

Here’s a unique one to consider
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsport ... cial-media

fyre4ce
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by fyre4ce » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:27 pm

I don't have nearly your income, so unfortunately those types of cars will most likely be always out of my reach. But, here are a few points to consider.

Hate to be a downer, but how secure is your income? $5M per year for 30 years is massively different than $5M for the next couple years, after that, who knows. I would seriously consider the security of my income before burning money on a supercar.

To those who recommend giving to charity, you could easily donate 10% of your "supercar" fund to a great charity like Doctors Without Borders. Would make the world a better place and also possibly make you feel less guilty about enjoying your income.

I'm a "car guy" - I had a track-prepared Porsche 911 for a while and would take it to Porsche Club HPDE track days. I considering starting Porsche Club Racing or SCCA, but I ended up selling the car due to a job change and move to California before I could. A big +1 to everyone here who said that track driving is way more fun than driving a supercar on the street. Once you try track driving, driving on the street seems like a massive waste of hardware. Track driving also, for me, dampened any temptations I had to break traffic laws, and combined with an increase in driving skill, made me a safer driver on the street for sure.

If I were in your position, I would look at putting money toward a real race car rather than a street-legal supercar that will be a grocery-getter. You can get used endurance cars for relatively cheap - a few hundred grand. Check out RacingJunk.com. For cars like that, maintenance and spare parts are more of a concern than initial purchase price, so have a plan for how to keep it running. Porsche does a good job with their line of factory 911 Cup cars. They're popular so parts are easy to find. The biggest maintenance expense is rebuilding the engine every couple hundred hours, but you can ship it to a Porsche maintenance center. Most of the major car reviewers (Top Gear, Motor Trend, etc) occasionally compare similar street and track cars, and the track cars always blow the street cars away (like here).

That said, as others have pointed out, starting out track driving with a high-power car is not ideal. The power will mask deficiencies in technique and will make it much harder to improve. Starting out on a low-power car like a Spec Miata, that will punish you for not carrying your speed through corners, will make you a much better driver. There are also really good driving schools you can go to (Bob Bondurant, Skip Barber) where for a few $k you get 3-4 days in a real race car like a Formula Ford with data acquisition and professional instruction. I would definitely go down one or both of these routes for a while before buying a Cup car and unleashing it on a track.

Despite all that, if you want to spend a few hundred grand on a supercar, you can afford it. While I generally feel like supercars on the street are a waste, I have thought in a money-no-object scenario that a Ferrari 488 Spyder or similar would be a good second car for fun on nights and weekends (the daily driver being something like an M3, M5, or Tesla). You could start out with your McLaren and in parallel head down the racing route by taking a couple racing schools and trying a lower level of racing like autocross or Spec Miatas. Then if you like it, invest in a proper race car and take it as far as you want, once you have the skill to drive it anywhere close to its limits safely.

Good luck! I'm jealous

smitcat
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:10 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:53 pm
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:45 pm
runner540 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:23 pm
JustinTime wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:24 pm
Hey Everyone,

So, here's an interesting one that I want to see if any Bogleheads have ever been in a similar scenario and have purchased a supercar and more importantly do you think it has provided any value/happiness/fun in your life, and would you or have you done it again?

A little background. I'm married, and 27. We've been very fortunate, with a lot of hard work and some luck we've been able to create a pretty successful business that has taken off the past few years. We are FI with around 4M of investments, 1M of that in retirement accounts, 550k paid off home, 2 paid off cars. I stumbled on some car channels about a year ago on YouTube like Doug Demuro (Never was a car person), and it peaked my interest. Anyways, I was able to test drive a McLaren MP4-12C and 570S over the past few weeks, and it was a blast. When driving these cars it's really like the reaction you see here :D https://youtu.be/hKQBZYz_WhQ?t=625. I'm not even sure how to describe it maybe like a roller coaster.

I've been thinking about purchasing some type of supercar with cash over the next few months after doing a little more research and taking some type of driving classes to make sure I'm not an idiot driver since these types are cars are pretty crazy 8-). The next Tesla Roadster looks very interesting but that's probably another 2 or 3 years out.

I'm expecting we will gross roughly around 5-5.5M this year so maybe 3.3-3.5M after taxes so buying a 150k-200k car wouldn't have a big impact on overall net worth, this year's savings rate, charitable contributions or lifestyle.

I know this isn't really a Bogleheads type question, but at the end of the day, I'm assuming we all want to become FI so we can do things that we enjoy whether that's free time or a few specific hobbies like cars, etc.

Thanks
Are you and your wife prepared for the assumptions/expectations that will go along with the car?

Your friends and family might already know you have a successful business and don't worry about money, but this car will end any pretense of stealth wealth. It will be hard to hide and every time you say no, they will think "but you had enough to buy that car."
I am now curious how much time some spend on worrying about what people may think of their choices in life?
I know many people, and I'm sure you do too, who are completely preoccupied with this. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that it completely dominates the life of my mother-in-law and a sister-in-law (on separate sides of the family).

OP, you make so much money that this isn't a topic for this board. Do some reading on some supercar-focused boards. Personally, I would heed the advice on some others and not jump straight into "supercar" territory without first cautiously dipping your toe into the sportscar waters. These finely-tuned machines are not generally fun things to drive when you are not pushing their limits, which isn't remotely possible on public roads. And that level of performance is flat out dangerous in the hands of the huge majority of drivers. You may prefer something a little more GT-ish like a Bentley GT or Aston Martin DB 11 or a little less exotic like a GTR or NSX. One of my best friends picked up a new NSX last year. I've yet to ride in it, but he says he likes it more than his 458 and Tesla model S.
"I know many people, and I'm sure you do too, who are completely preoccupied with this. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that it completely dominates the life of my mother-in-law and a sister-in-law (on separate sides of the family)"

Not really - maybe my memory fails and it was more obvious in my past but not now.

smitcat
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by smitcat » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:18 pm

hand wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:25 pm
smitcat wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:45 pm
I am now curious how much time some spend on worrying about what people may think of their choices in life?
I raised a similar point, and struggled to word it correctly.

One issue is what others think of you - I suppose the hope is that one has enough self confidence that what other's think of you is immaterial.

The real issue is how others interact with you:
A *flash* car is an invitation for others to interact with you in public whether you want the attention or not. Interactions range from the pleasant “nice car,” to more in depth discussions of technology, performance, to unsolicited opinions on what you should have done with your money instead.
By definition, driving a *flash* car makes you different than all of the “average Joes” on the road. Depending on the car, this can be for the good – respectful distance and appreciation of your stewardship of a beautiful piece of art, or the bad – more aggressive behavior, expectation of bigger tips, higher prices.

Even if you don’t care what other’s think, for good or for ill you’ve changed your interaction with the people you meet every time you drive the car.
"Even if you don’t care what other’s think, for good or for ill you’ve changed your interaction with the people you meet every time you drive the car."
Maybe like when certain folks met me at the marina and asked if I could come over and give a quote on working on their boat - I looked like a mechanic I guess and was working on a boat.
Either way the folks that I know don't care what I have or don't have they already know me - and the folks I don't know I don't know.

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JustinTime
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JustinTime » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:20 pm

Thanks for the tip, I will check to see if I can find an R8 that's the next on the list.
AerialWombat wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:32 pm
Before buying, I might suggest renting several for a while. Check out Mile High Rides since you’re in Denver. They have a good rental selection.

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JustinTime
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JustinTime » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:27 pm

I'm sold! Where do I buy it? :beer
mortfree wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:17 pm
Here’s a unique one to consider
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsport ... cial-media

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JustinTime
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JustinTime » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:30 pm

Very cool you know Doug! Good points here thanks for the comment!
GT99 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:23 pm
Had to mention, as a car guy, it's funny seeing how often Doug DeMuro comes up in car threads - I knew Doug DeMuro before before he became a writer/Youtube personality. Good guy, very sharp, and not someone I would have expected to be so good on screen - he's quirky as hell (I don't mean that as a knock, quirky in a good way) and I wouldn't have expected it to translate well onscreen, but it does IMO. Really happy to see he followed his dreams and it paid off big time.

Anyhow, to the OP, I'd say really ask yourself what your goals are for this car. Why do you want it? How much is for the pure driving pleasure vs how much is for the flash and sexiness, etc? If you primarily want the pure driving pleasure, I would say don't go spending $200k+ on a car that you have to baby. Are you really going to feel comfortable pushing a McLaren on a track? I ask this as someone who has put a $100k car into the wall on a racetrack. I personally wouldn't.

In my opinion, the incremental increase in driving thrill in going from cars you can get in the $60-90k range to something $200k+ isn't worth it - especially for the vast majority of drivers who don't know how to really push a car.

If I were in your shoes, I'd get a Boxster or Cayman GTS. You don't the engine growl of some other cars if that's a priority for you, but I'm a driving dynamics guy, and it's hard to beat those under $100k.

chmcnm
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by chmcnm » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:31 pm

We happened to be in Montreal during the F1 race last year. Wow!!! Every supercar you could think of many times over. Every manufacturer was there with a display. That would be my recommendation to visit an F1 race. I liked the Mercedes GT or the SLR...and I'm not even a fan of Mercedes. Of course a GTR, Corvette, or a 911 would be a great entry level start. Whatever you decide please take some lessons on how to drive the car. Enjoy.

mass_biker
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by mass_biker » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:45 pm

One vote here for the sleeper supercar...went through a similar decision making progress a while back and pulled the trigger on a supercar (to me) that is truly a sleeper/everyday driver.

2018 AMG wagon.

To me - the best of both worlds.

Highly recommended (and if you can wrap your head around the depreciation curve, about as much fun as you can have on four wheels, and still haul 3 kids, groceries, dog etc...)

ssquared87
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by ssquared87 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm

I’ll second what another poster mentioned earlier.

To truly have fun with these types of cars you need to drive them on the track. Driving them on the street is mostly pointless and somewhat frustrating when traffic and speed limits prevent you from unleashing it’s potential.

Get a Miata or a BRZ and go to the track. Learning on a low powered car will help you build up your skills more than driving a high powered car. It’ll also be much more fun that driving a super car slow on public roads.

Once you’ve got the skills to go for something more capable, then go for it...you’ve got the money don’t hold yourself back if you’ll enjoy it. And don’t compromise for something like an NSX. Thinking it’ll be more reliable than a Ferrari just because it’s made by Honda is short sighted. Honda put some cutting edge technologies in that car that aren’t in any of their other products, so I wouldn’t be basing my decision on the assumption it’ll be cheaper to run. Drive everything in your price range and see what pulls at your heart.

Personally I would never get an R8, I’ve found them to be too bland and docile on the track. I prefer the Ferrari 458/488 much more, and many of the Porsche GT cars over the R8. But the only way to know what you prefer is getting some time trying them all. If I had driven an R8 and never driven a Porsche or Ferrari, I’d be impressed. But having experienced many different types of cars from many brands, I rank the R8 pretty low on my list. I haven’t driven an NSX so no comment there. My opinion doesn’t matter much though. My point is that you need to understand your preferences first and I don’t think you’re at that point

randomguy
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by randomguy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:38 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm
I’ll second what another poster mentioned earlier.

To truly have fun with these types of cars you need to drive them on the track. Driving them on the street is mostly pointless and somewhat frustrating when traffic and speed limits prevent you from unleashing it’s potential.
To have driving fun, you need to go to the track. If you just want the fun of driving and having people look at you, the super car gets the job done. Some people want a sleeper. Others want a neon sign pointing right at them. And some want a combo. People here will belittle the image stuff quite a bit but if it makes you feel like a better person when you roll into work in a 150k car, you shouldn't let their personal values affect you. Do what makes you happy.

This isn't some normal car purchase. This is spending money on a hobby. Only you can decide if it brings enough joy to cover the costs.

Bacchus01
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Re: I'm thinking about buying an exotic supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by Bacchus01 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:51 pm

JustinTime wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:38 am
Thanks for the info! Cool, to hear someone with an NSX on the forum! I'm definitely going to check out the NSX. I think it could make a lot of sense with how much the pricing has dropped. It's 200k new and yet a 2017 <6k at a local dealer for 140k. I'm going to go test drive this one that is relatively close to me https://www.milehighacura.com/inventory ... 09hy000934. I think they look awesome, but probably wouldn't get as much attention as saw a Ferrari or Lambo which is something I would prefer. Do you get many questions when you go out or can you slip under the radar pretty easily?

I really like that it's AWD vs. the McLaren's I've test drove so far.
hansatsu wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:45 am
Bought a 2018 NSX and no regrets at all. The hybrid powertrain is a rocket ship, yet the car is comfortable enough to daily drive. Much cheaper to service & maintain compared to similar class of cars, and rare enough to be a head turner on the streets. Highly recommend you test drive a NSX at a nearby Acura showroom (call around as not all of them have one in stock) before making the decision.
We did a track day in Vegas with a Ferrari 488, Lambo Aventador, Porsche GT2, and NSX. The NSX was by far the slowest around the track. The 488 was the most brutally fun but the Porsche was the fastest around the track. It was a short track. The Lambo did nothing exceptional but everything well. The NSX was a dog compared to the rest.

NJdad6
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by NJdad6 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:47 am

I believe the OP was specific in asking about a super car. MB wagons, miatas, VWs, etc are not super cars.

Not an expert by any means but it seems that Ferrari and limited edition Porsche hold their value better than some of the other brands.

Please stop with the giving x% to your favorite charity. The OP pays almost $2million in taxes. He pays more than his fair share. Buy with zero guilt and enjoy.

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4nursebee
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by 4nursebee » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:49 am

Tesla 3 or S is my vote.
I have not done this.
No feedback, enjoy life.
Have no regrets if you change your mind and sell in a year.
4nursebee

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FlyAF
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by FlyAF » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:27 am

OP: I want to buy a super car, have millions of dollars, etc...

Bogleheads: You should buy a Miata or Subaru. :oops:

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by azanon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm
Get a Miata or a BRZ and go to the track. Learning on a low powered car will help you build up your skills more than driving a high powered car. It’ll also be much more fun that driving a super car slow on public roads.
Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by azanon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:39 am

NJdad6 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:47 am
I believe the OP was specific in asking about a super car. MB wagons, miatas, VWs, etc are not super cars.

Not an expert by any means but it seems that Ferrari and limited edition Porsche hold their value better than some of the other brands.

Please stop with the giving x% to your favorite charity. The OP pays almost $2million in taxes. He pays more than his fair share. Buy with zero guilt and enjoy.
Agree with the charity comment - 100% off-topic, if you ask me, to say nothing of it being judgmental.

Most of the suggestions for non-supercars were on topic though I think, because most suggested that for the purpose of learning driving technique on something a little more forgiving, and you wont mind abusing due to lack of technique, and then getting the super car.

Just a thought - if you can comfortably afford a super car, should the degree to which they hold their resale value even be in the top 10 list of priorities?

alfaspider
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by alfaspider » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am

azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm
Get a Miata or a BRZ and go to the track. Learning on a low powered car will help you build up your skills more than driving a high powered car. It’ll also be much more fun that driving a super car slow on public roads.
Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.
The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform. They are relatively low powered "momentum" cars that reward smooth inputs and really learning the correct racing line. A car like an S4 has enough power and electronic assistance that its going to cover up driving flaws. Being forced induction and relatively heavy, they are also going to be less reliable and hard on consumables.

Also, if you can afford it (OP can), it's best to track a second car you can afford to put into a wall and not be without transportation. Even better if you can track something with a full track safety system (roll cage, 6 point harness, HANS, fire suppression). Obviously a much different experience than just tooling around on the streets in an NSX (which may be more along the lines of what OP is looking for).

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corn18
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by corn18 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am

alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm
Get a Miata or a BRZ and go to the track. Learning on a low powered car will help you build up your skills more than driving a high powered car. It’ll also be much more fun that driving a super car slow on public roads.
Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.
The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform. They are relatively low powered "momentum" cars that reward smooth inputs and really learning the correct racing line. A car like an S4 has enough power and electronic assistance that its going to cover up driving flaws. Being forced induction and relatively heavy, they are also going to be less reliable and hard on consumables.

Also, if you can afford it (OP can), it's best to track a second car you can afford to put into a wall and not be without transportation. Even better if you can track something with a full track safety system (roll cage, 6 point harness, HANS, fire suppression). Obviously a much different experience than just tooling around on the streets in an NSX (which may be more along the lines of what OP is looking for).
That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
Don't do something, just stand there!

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:13 am

FlyAF wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:27 am
OP: I want to buy a super car, have millions of dollars, etc...
Bogleheads: You should buy a Miata or Subaru. :oops:
To be fair, the recommendations are for OP to learn on a car that will highlight teachable moments and not cover OP's errors through software or power.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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JustinTime
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JustinTime » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:54 am

I may need to try one out. I know Doug Demuro seems to like his AMG Wagon as well. It would be more practical to fit the hockey gear in ;)
mass_biker wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:45 pm
One vote here for the sleeper supercar...went through a similar decision making progress a while back and pulled the trigger on a supercar (to me) that is truly a sleeper/everyday driver.

2018 AMG wagon.

To me - the best of both worlds.

Highly recommended (and if you can wrap your head around the depreciation curve, about as much fun as you can have on four wheels, and still haul 3 kids, groceries, dog etc...)

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JustinTime
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JustinTime » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:57 am

Good point, yeah, I think it's going to come down to what I enjoy most during the test drive not resell value.
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:39 am
Just a thought - if you can comfortably afford a super car, should the degree to which they hold their resale value even be in the top 10 list of priorities?

alfaspider
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by alfaspider » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:05 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:13 am
FlyAF wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:27 am
OP: I want to buy a super car, have millions of dollars, etc...
Bogleheads: You should buy a Miata or Subaru. :oops:
To be fair, the recommendations are for OP to learn on a car that will highlight teachable moments and not cover OP's errors through software or power.
Yeah, the recommendation isn't to avoid buying a Supercar, but to learn performance driving before doing so. Also, for what it's worth, actually racing supercars tends to be the provenance of folks who are a lot wealthier than OP.

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JackoC » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am

corn18 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm
Get a Miata or a BRZ and go to the track. Learning on a low powered car will help you build up your skills more than driving a high powered car. It’ll also be much more fun that driving a super car slow on public roads.
Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.
The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform.
That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
I have not read every post on this interesting thread, and OP has chimed back in a bunch of times. So I might have missed any real interest on his part in tracking or having a track car. My impression from the beginning is that the idea is to have a very flashy very cool car for the street. And other posters have kind of manufactured the discussion of best car to learn to be a track driver. I could be wrong but seems that way.

The posters saying learn track driving on a lower powered cheaper car are right IMO if the aim is to be a good track driver (and a better driver generally IMO). It's one thing to step up to a whole new level of car, but how likely is the person to want to run that car hard on a track? Even assuming the requisite skills. Just the punishment on the car aside from the possibility of putting it into a wall even with skills, and even assuming nothing bad happens to you bodily. I think that's pretty rare for somebody to want to do that.

I guess vast majority of exotics are sold for street use and 'flash' on the street and no indication it's different here.

Again I just extrapolate from my experience. I stepped up from 'regular' BMW to M2** last year. No way would I punish and risk that car on a track now, maybe at some point when it's my second best car. OTOH I can legally get loads of fun out of it on public roads. I'm restricted on crowded local roads where I drive very nice and easy, but on wide open windy roads and two lane passing I can use most of the car's capability without being a menace to myself or others. That is one key point to me in the realistic case where an exotic is also bought as a road car, I couldn't do that. The other is that caring about what other people think is, to some degree, part of life. If I bought an exotic it would tell all the people I know with only a vague idea we're doing well, more explicitly *how* well and that would change relationships. If I really wanted the exotic I'd put that consideration aside, but at the margin it's another reason I don't. Maybe the people OP deals with know of the big success of his company and wonder why he *isn't* driving an exotic. That's case by case.

*I noticed along the way a 'no true Scotsman' post saying a 'super' car had to cost at least $500k-$1mil. To me the market segment of 'exotics' is pretty clear as certain brands (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc). It's not strictly about car performance, where of course the lower end cars of the exotic brands aren't necessarily more capable than upper end of the 'mass luxury' brands (high end 911's, MB AMG GT, etc). Maybe leave the term 'super car' aside.
**I notice if others mention this car they usually say M2 Competition IOW 2019 M2. I got M2 'LCI' (2018) when I could have ordered an M2C, partly for price concession on outgoing model v MSRP order for sure, but I think the original M2 is better balanced in the terms being discussed: what you can use on wide open public roads. It also sounds better IMO, and M2C's don't come in the stealthy gray.
Last edited by JackoC on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 am

alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:05 am
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:13 am
FlyAF wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:27 am
OP: I want to buy a super car, have millions of dollars, etc...
Bogleheads: You should buy a Miata or Subaru. :oops:
To be fair, the recommendations are for OP to learn on a car that will highlight teachable moments and not cover OP's errors through software or power.
Yeah, the recommendation isn't to avoid buying a Supercar, but to learn performance driving before doing so. Also, for what it's worth, actually racing supercars tends to be the provenance of folks who are a lot wealthier than OP.
Thank you for saying that; I didn’t want to mention it for fear of being accused of being envious. We are well off, but I can’t even get myself to buy business class for cash, much less think about a McLaren or Bugatti as a 3rd or 4th car. I’m too old I guess, and would look comical with my bald head.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

masonstone
Posts: 379
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by masonstone » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:21 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:05 am
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:13 am
FlyAF wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:27 am
OP: I want to buy a super car, have millions of dollars, etc...
Bogleheads: You should buy a Miata or Subaru. :oops:
To be fair, the recommendations are for OP to learn on a car that will highlight teachable moments and not cover OP's errors through software or power.
Yeah, the recommendation isn't to avoid buying a Supercar, but to learn performance driving before doing so. Also, for what it's worth, actually racing supercars tends to be the provenance of folks who are a lot wealthier than OP.
Thank you for saying that; I didn’t want to mention it for fear of being accused of being envious. We are well off, but I can’t even get myself to buy business class for cash, much less think about a McLaren or Bugatti as a 3rd or 4th car. I’m too old I guess, and would look comical with my bald head.
That’s another reason I believe the OP should buy a supercar. He’s wealthy AND young. Enjoy your one life, like you young folks say, YOLO 😋

sjt
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by sjt » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am

alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:05 am
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:13 am
FlyAF wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:27 am
OP: I want to buy a super car, have millions of dollars, etc...
Bogleheads: You should buy a Miata or Subaru. :oops:
To be fair, the recommendations are for OP to learn on a car that will highlight teachable moments and not cover OP's errors through software or power.
Yeah, the recommendation isn't to avoid buying a Supercar, but to learn performance driving before doing so. Also, for what it's worth, actually racing supercars tends to be the provenance of folks who are a lot wealthier than OP.
+1

OP - you should absolutely do tons of research on this. In the meantime, get yourself some driving lessons (not drivers ed - actual race style driving lessons). If you want to drive a fast car, you need to be a smart driver. Youtube is filled with boneheads driving cars they are not able to control (lots of mustangs) - don't be that guy.
"The one who covets is the poorer man, | For he would have that which he never can; | But he who doesn't have and doesn't crave | Is rich, though you may hold him but a knave." - Wife of Bath tale

alfaspider
Posts: 1929
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by alfaspider » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:51 am

sjt wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:05 am
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:13 am
FlyAF wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:27 am
OP: I want to buy a super car, have millions of dollars, etc...
Bogleheads: You should buy a Miata or Subaru. :oops:
To be fair, the recommendations are for OP to learn on a car that will highlight teachable moments and not cover OP's errors through software or power.
Yeah, the recommendation isn't to avoid buying a Supercar, but to learn performance driving before doing so. Also, for what it's worth, actually racing supercars tends to be the provenance of folks who are a lot wealthier than OP.
+1

OP - you should absolutely do tons of research on this. In the meantime, get yourself some driving lessons (not drivers ed - actual race style driving lessons). If you want to drive a fast car, you need to be a smart driver. Youtube is filled with boneheads driving cars they are not able to control (lots of mustangs) - don't be that guy.
Skip Barber (or similar) would be a great option. Or, for even less commitment, take the S4 to a local autocross and get one of the more experienced drivers to instruct.

itsgot8
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by itsgot8 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:09 am

If the OP wants to build up his driving skill, doing private instruction at Spring Mountain is another great choice.

azanon
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by azanon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:56 am

JackoC wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm
Get a Miata or a BRZ and go to the track. Learning on a low powered car will help you build up your skills more than driving a high powered car. It’ll also be much more fun that driving a super car slow on public roads.
Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.
The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform.
That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
*I noticed along the way a 'no true Scotsman' post saying a 'super' car had to cost at least $500k-$1mil. To me the market segment of 'exotics' is pretty clear as certain brands (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc). It's not strictly about car performance, where of course the lower end cars of the exotic brands aren't necessarily more capable than upper end of the 'mass luxury' brands (high end 911's, MB AMG GT, etc). Maybe leave the term 'super car' aside.
The car I think he's going to look at shortly (NSX), Acura actually calls it a "(next generation) supercar" on their homepage (Vehicle > NSX at the website). So Acura thinks its one... <shrug>

Honda has a tradition in performance, and I believe Acura's original formation was going to be Honda's performance line. So that's the top car at Acura. So to say Honda's top consumer car couldn't reach "supercar" status given their heritage and prestige in racing, would be a pretty disrespectful gesture towards them. Not saying you are saying that!, just making a general statement.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:04 pm

sjt wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am
Youtube is filled with boneheads driving cars they are not able to control (lots of mustangs) - don't be that guy.
Auto Addiction on youtube has lots of Nurburgring footage from the sidelines with numerous crashes. As an instructor, I shake my head with 75% of the crashes where the driver didn't observe one of the first, easy to remember rules....."when you spin, both feet in", meaning clutch and brake. Watch as drivers loose it, then get off the brakes to try to save it, or continue or something only to careen across the track, hit the guard rail and destroy their car. Had they simply mashed the brake to the floor and kept it there until they were 100% stopped, they would have spun down the track in a straight line and stopped.

Buncha Noobs.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

masonstone
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:01 pm

Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by masonstone » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:34 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:04 pm
sjt wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am
Youtube is filled with boneheads driving cars they are not able to control (lots of mustangs) - don't be that guy.
Auto Addiction on youtube has lots of Nurburgring footage from the sidelines with numerous crashes. As an instructor, I shake my head with 75% of the crashes where the driver didn't observe one of the first, easy to remember rules....."when you spin, both feet in", meaning clutch and brake. Watch as drivers loose it, then get off the brakes to try to save it, or continue or something only to careen across the track, hit the guard rail and destroy their car. Had they simply mashed the brake to the floor and kept it there until they were 100% stopped, they would have spun down the track in a straight line and stopped.

Buncha Noobs.
What do you mean by mashing the breaks?

fyre4ce
Posts: 218
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by fyre4ce » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:58 pm

masonstone wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:34 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:04 pm
sjt wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am
Youtube is filled with boneheads driving cars they are not able to control (lots of mustangs) - don't be that guy.
Auto Addiction on youtube has lots of Nurburgring footage from the sidelines with numerous crashes. As an instructor, I shake my head with 75% of the crashes where the driver didn't observe one of the first, easy to remember rules....."when you spin, both feet in", meaning clutch and brake. Watch as drivers loose it, then get off the brakes to try to save it, or continue or something only to careen across the track, hit the guard rail and destroy their car. Had they simply mashed the brake to the floor and kept it there until they were 100% stopped, they would have spun down the track in a straight line and stopped.

Buncha Noobs.
What do you mean by mashing the breaks?
Applying the brakes with enough force to lock up all four wheels. For track driving, ABS should be disabled.

Broken Man 1999
Posts: 2508
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am

Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:11 pm

You could get the new AMG GT 63S 4-door model you could use as a daily driver and also take to the track.

I think it tops out around 190-195 mph.

BIL was impressed with it when he went to school for it a couple of weeks ago.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

TareNeko
Posts: 585
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by TareNeko » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:14 pm

I haven't read the whole thread. I think the sensible car to buy is a posrche. They make one of the most reliable cars out there. And honestly even a 911 is over kill these days. Get a Cayman GT4 or GTS, and you will be more than happy.

There is no way you can enjoy a McLaren, even in the race track. I had friends with 911 Turbo S who had to lift off around 150mph on the race track because ... you know they have kids.. And I was haply doing 125mph, pedal to the metal, in my MINI. So if you can't even go as fast as the car can go in a race track, why buy it? If you want to experience super cars, I would rent them occasionally.

ssquared87
Posts: 940
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by ssquared87 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:23 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm
Get a Miata or a BRZ and go to the track. Learning on a low powered car will help you build up your skills more than driving a high powered car. It’ll also be much more fun that driving a super car slow on public roads.
Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.
The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform. They are relatively low powered "momentum" cars that reward smooth inputs and really learning the correct racing line. A car like an S4 has enough power and electronic assistance that its going to cover up driving flaws. Being forced induction and relatively heavy, they are also going to be less reliable and hard on consumables.

Also, if you can afford it (OP can), it's best to track a second car you can afford to put into a wall and not be without transportation. Even better if you can track something with a full track safety system (roll cage, 6 point harness, HANS, fire suppression). Obviously a much different experience than just tooling around on the streets in an NSX (which may be more along the lines of what OP is looking for).
Thanks couldn’t have said it better. That’s the exact reasoning behind my recommendation. Not to mention the S4 is a complete snooze fest. The Miata and BRZ are way less powerful but so much more satisfying to drive. The S4 is an overweight barge with crappy steering, AWD, and a mediocre engine. Even though the s4 is more powerful, on a road course without long straights I’d be willing to bet I could get the BRZ around it quicker than an S4. Throw in a few straights then the situation would favor the S4 but it would still be less fun and less effective for learning

ssquared87
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by ssquared87 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:33 pm

azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:56 am
JackoC wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am


Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.
The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform.
That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
*I noticed along the way a 'no true Scotsman' post saying a 'super' car had to cost at least $500k-$1mil. To me the market segment of 'exotics' is pretty clear as certain brands (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc). It's not strictly about car performance, where of course the lower end cars of the exotic brands aren't necessarily more capable than upper end of the 'mass luxury' brands (high end 911's, MB AMG GT, etc). Maybe leave the term 'super car' aside.
The car I think he's going to look at shortly (NSX), Acura actually calls it a "(next generation) supercar" on their homepage (Vehicle > NSX at the website). So Acura thinks its one... <shrug>
Acura also considers their TLX a “performance luxury sedan” that doesn’t mean it has a remote hint of performance. It’s just marketing jargon. It’s an upscale firmer riding front wheel drive accord based platform.

There’s nothing wrong with that, I had a TSX for a while and it was great for what it was..I love Acura and loved that car. But Acura’s marketing is not even remotely based on reality.

And yes, Honda builds great engines, but their racing history is somewhat questionable. Mclaren dumped Honda as their engine supplier for formula 1 a few years ago because Honda could never get their engine to run reliably and at anywhere near the power levels Ferrari and AMG were able to put out.

I love the NSX but it’s a laughing stock compared to a 488.

azanon
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Location: Little Rock, AR
Contact:

Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by azanon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:33 pm
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:56 am
JackoC wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am


The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform.
That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
*I noticed along the way a 'no true Scotsman' post saying a 'super' car had to cost at least $500k-$1mil. To me the market segment of 'exotics' is pretty clear as certain brands (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc). It's not strictly about car performance, where of course the lower end cars of the exotic brands aren't necessarily more capable than upper end of the 'mass luxury' brands (high end 911's, MB AMG GT, etc). Maybe leave the term 'super car' aside.
The car I think he's going to look at shortly (NSX), Acura actually calls it a "(next generation) supercar" on their homepage (Vehicle > NSX at the website). So Acura thinks its one... <shrug>
Acura also considers their TLX a “performance luxury sedan” that doesn’t mean it has a remote hint of performance. It’s just marketing jargon. It’s an upscale firmer riding front wheel drive accord based platform.

There’s nothing wrong with that, I had a TSX for a while and it was great for what it was..I love Acura and loved that car. But Acura’s marketing is not even remotely based on reality.
Not only can the TLX be fitted with AWD, anyone that doesn't do so is really missing out since their SH-AWD is arguably the best in the business according to many reviewers. It can be fitted with a 3.5 V6 290hp engine, which is going to bring a little bit more than just a remote hint of performance. And guess how many Honda cars (not Acuras) can be fitted with a V6?

What does any of this have to do with the NSX or the comment of mine that you responded to? The starting price of a NSX is almost 5x what the TLX is. Acura says the NSX is a supercar so if you have an issue with that, take it up with them.

alfaspider
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by alfaspider » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:04 pm

azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:33 pm
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:56 am
JackoC wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am

That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
*I noticed along the way a 'no true Scotsman' post saying a 'super' car had to cost at least $500k-$1mil. To me the market segment of 'exotics' is pretty clear as certain brands (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc). It's not strictly about car performance, where of course the lower end cars of the exotic brands aren't necessarily more capable than upper end of the 'mass luxury' brands (high end 911's, MB AMG GT, etc). Maybe leave the term 'super car' aside.
The car I think he's going to look at shortly (NSX), Acura actually calls it a "(next generation) supercar" on their homepage (Vehicle > NSX at the website). So Acura thinks its one... <shrug>
Acura also considers their TLX a “performance luxury sedan” that doesn’t mean it has a remote hint of performance. It’s just marketing jargon. It’s an upscale firmer riding front wheel drive accord based platform.

There’s nothing wrong with that, I had a TSX for a while and it was great for what it was..I love Acura and loved that car. But Acura’s marketing is not even remotely based on reality.
Not only can the TLX be fitted with AWD, anyone that doesn't do so is really missing out since their SH-AWD is arguably the best in the business according to many reviewers. It can be fitted with a 3.5 V6 290hp engine, which is going to bring a little bit more than just a remote hint of performance. And guess how many Honda cars (not Acuras) can be fitted with a V6?

What does any of this have to do with the NSX or the comment of mine that you responded to? The starting price of a NSX is almost 5x what the TLX is. Acura says the NSX is a supercar so if you have an issue with that, take it up with them.
These days Camrys have 300hp, so 290hp isn't what it used to be. Unfortunately, while that number sounds impressive on paper, most reviewers find the performance bona fides a little lacking. The 14.5 second 1/4 mile is not particularly quick by today's performance sedan standards. Part of the problem is the v6 AWD weighs close to 4,000lbs (1,600lbs more than a Miata). Car and Driver had this to say:

"Although Acura markets the TLX as a sports sedan, the car feels too comfortable and refined to be called such—and that's okay. The solid brakes and responsive steering boost driving fun—but only to a point. While the four-cylinder model now can be had with the sporty A-Spec package, only the V-6 version receives the quicker A-Spec steering setup and stiffer suspension. The TLX can be fun to drive quickly, but it still trails competitors such as the Alfa Romeo Giulia and the Audi A4 that have sharper handling and more responsive powertrains."

I've seen all sort of vehicles on the track, but I've never seen TLX. The target market for the v6 AWD isn't speed freaks, but someone who wants a bit of extra passing power and all weather capability in their entry level luxury sedan.

Whether the NSX is a "supercar" or not is a silly semantic exercise. It is clearly a very quick car by any reasonable definition, but it is also the more comfortable and less sharp-edged option among its competitors. There's truly nothing wrong with that- but it's going to be a very different driving experience from a Porsche GT3 or Mclaren 570. Personally, I'd rather drive the NSX on a leisurely drive to the grocery store or to work, but I'd much rather own a Gt3.

ssquared87
Posts: 940
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by ssquared87 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:25 pm

azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:33 pm
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:56 am
JackoC wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am

That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
*I noticed along the way a 'no true Scotsman' post saying a 'super' car had to cost at least $500k-$1mil. To me the market segment of 'exotics' is pretty clear as certain brands (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc). It's not strictly about car performance, where of course the lower end cars of the exotic brands aren't necessarily more capable than upper end of the 'mass luxury' brands (high end 911's, MB AMG GT, etc). Maybe leave the term 'super car' aside.
The car I think he's going to look at shortly (NSX), Acura actually calls it a "(next generation) supercar" on their homepage (Vehicle > NSX at the website). So Acura thinks its one... <shrug>
Acura also considers their TLX a “performance luxury sedan” that doesn’t mean it has a remote hint of performance. It’s just marketing jargon. It’s an upscale firmer riding front wheel drive accord based platform.

There’s nothing wrong with that, I had a TSX for a while and it was great for what it was..I love Acura and loved that car. But Acura’s marketing is not even remotely based on reality.
Not only can the TLX be fitted with AWD, anyone that doesn't do so is really missing out since their SH-AWD is arguably the best in the business according to many reviewers. It can be fitted with a 3.5 V6 290hp engine, which is going to bring a little bit more than just a remote hint of performance. And guess how many Honda cars (not Acuras) can be fitted with a V6?

What does any of this have to do with the NSX or the comment of mine that you responded to? The starting price of a NSX is almost 5x what the TLX is. Acura says the NSX is a supercar so if you have an issue with that, take it up with them.
I was bringing up the TLX to highlight that there is a huge discrepancy in Acura's marketing claims vs. reality. Just because the TLX can be had with AWD doesn't mean it has any performance credentials. A TLX with AWD is still a front wheel drive based platform with a transversely mounted v6 engine. The weight balance is awful...61% of the weight over the front wheels vs. a BMW or Alfa which have a RWD platform with a longitudinally mounted engine and can be specced with AWD but has a 50/50 weight balance. I'm not knocking the TLX, its a great daily driver, and I like it, but Acura tends to misrepresent their products in their hyperbolic marketing.

The NSX is a cool looking quick sporty car, that would be a decent daily driver. Many of the other cars mentioned in this thread would destroy it on the track not just in terms of lap times, but also driving enjoyment. Again, thats not a bad thing, it depends what the OP is looking for in a super car, great looks and daily drivability, or weekend and track time fun.

JackoC
Posts: 716
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JackoC » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:24 pm

azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:56 am
JackoC wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 am
corn18 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 am
alfaspider wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am
azanon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 am


Why would you have him do that when he currently owns an S4 (which would take those 2 cars to school). Why not just track his S4 and learn on that? Also, i get that the miata and BRZ are rear-wheel drive cars, but he's considering an NSX which is AWD just like the S4.
The S4 is an OK track car, but a Miata or BRZ would be a much better learning platform.
That might be the best recommendation. Get a supercar (488 GTB would be my choice) for tooling around and looking cool. Get a track day car for fun (start at lower performance and work your way up to GT3). At that level of income, OP can afford both. Might need a bigger garage, though.
*I noticed along the way a 'no true Scotsman' post saying a 'super' car had to cost at least $500k-$1mil. To me the market segment of 'exotics' is pretty clear as certain brands (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren etc). It's not strictly about car performance, where of course the lower end cars of the exotic brands aren't necessarily more capable than upper end of the 'mass luxury' brands (high end 911's, MB AMG GT, etc). Maybe leave the term 'super car' aside.
The car I think he's going to look at shortly (NSX), Acura actually calls it a "(next generation) supercar" on their homepage (Vehicle > NSX at the website). So Acura thinks its one... <shrug>

Honda has a tradition in performance, and I believe Acura's original formation was going to be Honda's performance line. So that's the top car at Acura. So to say Honda's top consumer car couldn't reach "supercar" status given their heritage and prestige in racing, would be a pretty disrespectful gesture towards them. Not saying you are saying that!, just making a general statement.
Yeah but as the further responses indicate I think, 'super car' seems to generate more nitpicking as a term. Honda says NSX is, but they aren't the most objective source. Not that I'm saying it isn't. Just seems to me one can define 'exotic' relatively more easily as the cars of certain brands, which have a certain wow factor just from the brand emblem. Separately, people can have the endless discussion about performance v. value for myriad models running the the gamut from Miata or BRZ to BMW M-cars, their Audi/MB equivalents, American 'muscle cars' (which aren't just straight line cars anymore but competitive all around in many cases), low-middle-high end Porsche's, all the cars I left out, and the actual performance/value proposition of the exotic brands' offerings.

Then also, it's sort of logical to go from, exotic brand (or similar mass luxury top model, like NSX) cars can't be pushed even *relatively* (key word :happy ) legally and safely on public roads, therefore the buyer must want to track the car, thus how and in what lesser car might they build their skills to prepare?...except, most exotic customers just want a very cool and wow road car. I'm thinking that other than the discussion turning to long debate about track stuff, OP is basically one of those customers. And who am I to object? *If* I ever bought an exotic (or mass luxury proxy) would I ever track it hard, especially when it was *new*? Probably not, though that's also among the reasons I'll probably never buy one. I've done some tracking in non-M BMW. It's fun, but not a big part of my life, and I'm not particularly interested in working up to taking 180+ mph cars to top speed except maybe in a looong straight line. :happy But, I like somewhat pushing the M2 on suitably unpopulated public roads. The car is in its element going around slow posted curves not so slow, and getting around people quickly (therefore safely) on two lane passes. Nothing extreme, but fun to me. And again I have no near term plans even to track that car (and turn off the electronics and ABS? yeah, I don't think so :D , not knocking serious drivers mind you which I'm not).

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by H-Town » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:37 pm

JustinTime wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:24 pm
Hey Everyone,

So, here's an interesting one that I want to see if any Bogleheads have ever been in a similar scenario and have purchased a supercar and more importantly do you think it has provided any value/happiness/fun in your life, and would you or have you done it again?

A little background. I'm married, and 27. We've been very fortunate, with a lot of hard work and some luck we've been able to create a pretty successful business that has taken off the past few years. We are FI with around 4M of investments, 1M of that in retirement accounts, 550k paid off home, 2 paid off cars. I stumbled on some car channels about a year ago on YouTube like Doug Demuro (Never was a car person), and it peaked my interest. Anyways, I was able to test drive a McLaren MP4-12C and 570S over the past few weeks, and it was a blast. When driving these cars it's really like the reaction you see here :D https://youtu.be/hKQBZYz_WhQ?t=625. I'm not even sure how to describe it maybe like a roller coaster.

I've been thinking about purchasing some type of supercar with cash over the next few months after doing a little more research and taking some type of driving classes to make sure I'm not an idiot driver since these types are cars are pretty crazy 8-). The next Tesla Roadster looks very interesting but that's probably another 2 or 3 years out.

I'm expecting we will gross roughly around 5-5.5M this year so maybe 3.3-3.5M after taxes so buying a 150k-200k car wouldn't have a big impact on overall net worth, this year's savings rate, charitable contributions or lifestyle.

I know this isn't really a Bogleheads type question, but at the end of the day, I'm assuming we all want to become FI so we can do things that we enjoy whether that's free time or a few specific hobbies like cars, etc.

Thanks
I would buy the McLaren with no hesitation. Matter of facts, I would build a 10 car garage and start buying cars I want. Show the world that you're it.

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by azanon » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:29 am

I have no idea why the Acura TLX was ever brought up, and why it's getting so much attention. I regret responding to any comments about it at all since it wasn't relevant to anything. I certainly never said or suggested that Acura only manufactures sports cars. What I did say was just mentioning the original origin of Acura was intended to be Honda's performance element. That did evolve over time to be luxury instead of performance focus, per market demands.

Honda's two performance cars are the NSX already discussed quite a bit, and their record-breaking Civic Type-R (it has track records at a few overseas tracks). From an all-around performance standpoint, the Civic Type-R is arguably the top performance car under 40k, and maybe even up to 50k. Oh and it's definitely FWD, and that doesn't seem to matter.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:47 am

This is becoming a petrolhead version of Kiss, Marry, Kill
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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JustinTime
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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by JustinTime » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:25 am

Alright! I was able to test drive a local R8 V10 Plus and it's the car - 100%. Unfortunately, the local one I used for a test drive did have a buyback/lemon title from California. I felt fine with it mechanically, because the buyer did have the buyback paperwork showing Audi replace the instrument cluster. Apparently, in CA some buyer may take advantage of this law in some cases for high worth cars, and the car had multiple Audi service records after that resell from the buyback.

Anyway, although the seller offered what I thought was a fair price considering the branded title, I don't think it would be with the extra time and hassle it may take to try to resell or trade-in in the future.

So, I'm flying to check out two different R8's any preference on the Red Vs. White from you BogleHeads? I'm not sure whether I have a preference yet just from the online photo's. The White is certainly less flashy which may be a good thing.

Red has one more year of factory warrenty.

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Last edited by JustinTime on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by sjt » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:39 am

Red - 10 times out of 9.
"The one who covets is the poorer man, | For he would have that which he never can; | But he who doesn't have and doesn't crave | Is rich, though you may hold him but a knave." - Wife of Bath tale

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by researcher » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:50 am

sjt wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:39 am
Red - 10 times out of 9.
Disagree.
Between these two, I would definitely go with the white.

Not only is it less flashy and more classy, the white better complements all of the black on the car (wheels, vents, scoops, trim, ect).

In fact, I don't like the red at all on this particular car.

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:54 am

Kiss White, Marry Silver, Kill Red :D
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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Re: I'm thinking about buying a supercar anyone here done this and feedback?

Post by eucalyptus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:30 am

Congratulations on an excellent choice!

I prefer a body-color painted side blade. Doesn’t help choose between the cars shown.

Of the cars in the photos, without seeing the interior and knowing the other specs, I like the white one.

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