remodeling costs in san francisco

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x3t4a7
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remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by x3t4a7 »

hi--

i recently purchased a 2 bed / 2 bath condo in san francisco. the location is great, and it has really nice views from all the rooms. but it's a little run down, and most notably, the bathrooms are pretty grody and dated and have some cracked tile in the shower which i'm concerned might lead to water intrusion. i'd like to gut both bathrooms down to the studs and redo them.

I met with one "design/build" firm that said i should really consider a budget of around 80k$ per bathroom, and also suggested a number of other (expensive) updates i could do to the place. on the upside they could begin construction late this summer. i admit now i'm having a bit of sticker shock. I under the impression that you could get a decent bathroom for 30-50k, granted, i don't have any experience here, but my bathrooms are tiny at only around 80sqft.

this was only the first meeting I had setup, and i have other meetings set up soon, but I was wondering if anyone has any experience doing this kind of work in the bay area? is this just what it's going to cost? i understand that the bay area is just going to be significantly more expensive than other areas of the US, so maybe that's just the breaks?
Topic Author
x3t4a7
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by x3t4a7 »

also if anyone has any recommendations for designers or contractors i should meet, i'd love a referral. thanks!
Bayareatechie
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Bayareatechie »

You're doing the right thing by shopping around. When we did our full-house remodel 2 years ago, we found the range of prices was humongous - the highest estimates were more than 2x, maybe even 3x the lowest. We talked to a few design/build firms and they did tend to be more expensive.

In our experience the biggest differentiation in price comes down to whether the contractor is licensed. We absolutely had to go with a licensed contractor because our project required structural work, but we have friends who went with unlicensed contractors and paid half the rates we did for labor. But with unlicensed contractors there's a lot more risk and variability - we've heard both success stories and nightmares, more of the latter.

I'd actually be suspicious if a contractor can start really soon (though late summer is not too crazy). In this market, the good contractors are booked out, some of them a year in advance.

Congrats on the purchase!
sg0422
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by sg0422 »

30k - 80k? I’m not in a HCOL area, but this seems absurd. I’d be learning to lay tile or enough to be my own GC and hire the various subs. Houzz has great design ideas while roomandboard has some really good quality vanities that are pre-built and will save a lot on labor in your area.
Starfish
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Starfish »

My experience with bathroom remodel in Bay area is that with 25-30k you can get a pretty nice bathroom (porcelanosa stuff, not home depot). Of course you can go to crazy money if you want to.

However this was 5-6 years ago and to my shock a lot of things doubled meanwhile (I doubt that is thru for remodeling work though).
rich126
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by rich126 »

Unless you have money to burn I wouldn’t use a designer firm. Either you or with help from someone who is good with colors pick out what you wantin tile, flooring, toilet, paint, hardware, and then have a contractor do the install. You’ll save money.
Designers add money to your costs. They seem to use expensive products that aren’t worth the price.
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spinj
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by spinj »

Not SF but peninsula and $80k is "designer," you can do it for a lot less. If you get an architect involved it'll be big bucks. We've been slowly fixing our place and here's some prices:
  • Re-roof (remove 2 layers, redo gutters, new decking ~2300 sqft under roof), mostly 15-25k. All were licensed.
  • Electrical new panel: quotes from 2k - 3k, all licensed. The licensed guy we chose had an assistant did 90% of it. He did a hidden knob and tube splice next to the the subpanel.. :oops:
  • For the electrical re-wire (2 bedrooms, bath, kitchen, living, dining) quotes from 10-20k. Given what I saw for the panel replacement I went the unlicensed route and for ~8k we've done 2-3x what the quotes were for. I'm a bit more involved than with the licensed guys but trust them more seen their work. I pulled the permits myself and everything's been inspected w/o issues.
My suggestion is browse a few DIY books to get an idea of what's involved (so you know what's wrong) and get quotes a few different ways (Diamond certified, Yelp, Craigslist) but be aware they're 3 different levels. Then go with whom you feel comfortable with.
martiansteeler
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by martiansteeler »

If you can get someone to do the 80k it May be worth the money, I’ve had 6 or 7 contractors come in to bid on two bathrooms, ranged between 30 and 100k, and can’t get any of them to call me back or to schedule time. It is just too small of a job here in the City for a contractor to take seriously. I live in the Dogpatch with new construction going up on all four corners, and I’m about ready to pass out flyers at the end of the day to see if I can get any of the guys to come over and do the work after hours.
Goal33
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Goal33 »

I know people in the SF Bay Area waiting for the next recession before starting their remodel.
BusterMcTaco
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by BusterMcTaco »

We also redid our bathrooms in a 2 bed/2.5 bath condo, 3 years ago. The first bathroom was done "nice" and came in $45k with a designer (PM me if you want his info).

The other one we intentionally went cheaper (kids bathroom, no designer, lots of IKEA, Home Depot bathtub, etc..., only the tiles were the same nice quality ones). With the same contractor that one came in $13k-$14k. They were both about the size of your bathroom.

We had quotes as high as $80k from contractors as well. Keep shopping around.
Leemiller
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Leemiller »

In another HCOL we spent over 50k in labor for two bathroom, materials were separate. We used a design build but I paid a few thousand for our kitchen designer to help with layout and act as a sounding board for the materials, which I ended up picking out somewhat differently. Our bathrooms were from the 1950s so that contributed to the costs, as did using room from adjacent closets to increase their size.

I looked on Houzz to find the contractor we eventually went with. Got quotes 2x as high for labor with someone we used before. We only use licensed contractors, I would never risk someone unlicensed and it’s probably against your condo rules (in addition to being illegal).

Design is a hobby of mine but for most people I’d spend money on a designer. No reason to cheap out on that part when you’re spending thousands. Also, the designer got us a discount on purchases, so that part was likely a wash. I see lots of ugly, poorly designed bathrooms out there.
fogalog
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by fogalog »

Yes, $80k is high, even for the Bay Area.

The reason for that is twofold: 1) two major fires in the north bay mean many larger contractors and subs are booked up doing more lucrative rebuilds up north and 2) a resurgence in the IPO market means many more people in the Bay Area with dumb money when it comes to homes and remodels. It's like 2005 all over again.

If you want to save money I would recommend thinking about whether you want to change the layout of your bathroom or not. i.e. if you are simply replacing items in-situ, re-tiling, etc., you certainly do not need an architect and - others may disagree, of course, but - a skilled handyman could do the whole thing... for a lot less money. That said, this also depends on the state of your current bathroom as well of course - e.g. if there has been water damage through a cracked tile, the work will be more extensive. If you are fairly handy, you could do most of the work yourself though I completely understand if you choose not to.

Source: I'm in tech and live in the Bay Area. I have done a fair amount of remodelling over the years including a major rebuild.

Good luck!
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unclescrooge
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by unclescrooge »

x3t4a7 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 10:44 pm hi--

i recently purchased a 2 bed / 2 bath condo in san francisco. the location is great, and it has really nice views from all the rooms. but it's a little run down, and most notably, the bathrooms are pretty grody and dated and have some cracked tile in the shower which i'm concerned might lead to water intrusion. i'd like to gut both bathrooms down to the studs and redo them.

I met with one "design/build" firm that said i should really consider a budget of around 80k$ per bathroom, and also suggested a number of other (expensive) updates i could do to the place. on the upside they could begin construction late this summer. i admit now i'm having a bit of sticker shock. I under the impression that you could get a decent bathroom for 30-50k, granted, i don't have any experience here, but my bathrooms are tiny at only around 80sqft.

this was only the first meeting I had setup, and i have other meetings set up soon, but I was wondering if anyone has any experience doing this kind of work in the bay area? is this just what it's going to cost? i understand that the bay area is just going to be significantly more expensive than other areas of the US, so maybe that's just the breaks?
That's absurd. I spent $60k in Los Angeles on my kitchen (excluding flooring).

The kitchen is about 450 sqft, used 3 slabs of quartz, had 69 cabinets, drawers, and custom wood cabinetry that went to the ceiling.
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mrspock
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by mrspock »

$80k per bathroom is pretty high IMO. 2 years ago I gutted an entire 1500sqft house in San Jose for $90k, no structural, but fully repainted, brand new floors (scraped hardwood, marble & travertine floors), leathered granite counters, new plumbing fixtures/tubs/sinks/toilets (kohler), new cabinets (painted maple) and $15k in millwork. Fully licensed and permitted/inspected work. Originally the quotes varied widely maybe 2x, and I picked somebody who had solid reviews, allowed me to source/pay for all supplies, and was pay-as-you-go.

I will say, try to keep the structural changes to a minimum or the price will sky rocket. In my case, after I got structural quotes... I just didn’t care enough to pay for something future buyers probably weren’t going to appreciate (like I would). I now adore this house and it’s location.

Good luck.
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Sandtrap »

1 work with an architect on a fee basis. Get a plan.
2. Get contractor estimates, seek reputable ones with prior projects you might visit if possible.
3. Get it done.

The more folks you introduce into the Design >>> Build process, the more hands you have to fill with $$$$.
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visualguy
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by visualguy »

Good contractors are in huge demand in the Bay Area for 3 reasons. The first is that there simply aren't nearly enough of them in the area because it's hard for people to move there and start these businesses - high cost of living, shortage of workers. The second is that there are a lot of people who have a lot of resources available to spend on remodeling. The third is that the housing stock is mostly old and was built rather poorly to a low cost point to begin with, so many want/need to renovate.

One problem (of many) that I've encountered there is that contractors neglect lower-paying jobs for higher-paying jobs, so you have to watch out for that. A contractor may take your job, but then spend most of their time working on other jobs, and drag your job for a long time. If you don't pay the big bucks, you are more vulnerable to this, so sometimes negotiating a good price actually hurts you in this respect. It's a crazy area - really hard to get anything done there without opening the money spigots very wide.
sharAb
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by sharAb »

If your bathroom remodeling involves only resurfacing (new tiles, tub, shower, paint, fixtures, basin, etc.) and no structural changes that might add new electrical, plumbing changes or moving walls, then I wouldn't pay more than 10-15k per bathroom even with high end materials.

We are in the SF Bay Area as well. 2 years ago we added square footage with new foundation, new 1/2 bathroom, laundry room, updating flooring in the living area and total came to about 60k. All work was with fully licensed contractor and permits. I saved a few thousand by doing an architectural drawing in the Sketchup tool which my contractor was able to use for applying for permits with the city. But usually permits are not needed if there is only resurfacing work.

Check with your realtor. Usually they have good resources and can refer you to contractors.
z91
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by z91 »

Also in an HCOL here. 80k is too much.

Get multiple bids. Preferably from referrals. Even folks from the big box shops could do better IMO, even when they take a cut of the profit.
megabad
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by megabad »

sharAb wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 3:33 pm If your bathroom remodeling involves only resurfacing (new tiles, tub, shower, paint, fixtures, basin, etc.) and no structural changes that might add new electrical, plumbing changes or moving walls, then I wouldn't pay more than 10-15k per bathroom even with high end materials.
This is on par with what I just spent a few years back when I didn't have time to self perform any of the work. New shower, new tub, new vanity, tile, paint was about $15k for a small bathroom. No changes to the walls/framing, but I had them rip out all the drywall and replace with better water resistant board and waterproofing. I would laugh at your stated price if someone gave it to me with a straight face. I would assume they must have been including major structural repair and/or moving walls. I would also never involve an "architect" or anybody that calls themselves a "design build" firm in a simple bathroom remodel. I just hire licensed general contractors and never had a problem (not in CA though so YMMV).
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x3t4a7
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by x3t4a7 »

Clearly my inexperience is showing and I appreciate all the advice so far.

I took a meeting with a GC (referred by realtor) this week and he said that 80k for a bathroom of my size was absurd. He said that if I wanted to pay 80k for a bathroom, he might be able to source a gold toilet. So that was a relief. He said that his last bathroom job was about 25k for labor and like 12k for materials, but also that it was larger than mine, so it's possible mine is cheaper. So, still pretty expensive, but not nearly as insane as I had originally heard.

10-15k per bathroom all-in with materials and labor would be incredible, but so far no one I've spoken with has given me even close to that price range. Of course, still many meetings to take.

The reason I had originally gone to designers and design-build firms is that I don't really have much taste in design and I was concerned that if I just used a contractor alone, that I would ultimately have to make design decisions that I didn't feel comfortable making. That said, I've started to just browse bathroom designs on houzz.com and I now realize that ultimately there isn't really that much variety in bathrooms. There's tile, vanity, shower/tubs... not a whole lot to it. So maybe getting a designer isn't as necessary as I thought. It seems like, in an 80sqft bathroom there's just not a lot of permutations of possible configurations you can make. I wasn't planning on moving any walls, but possibly moving a toilet, by splitting a tub nook into a shower stall and putting the toilet next to it? I guess we'll see. I still have a bunch of meetings set up still.
msk
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by msk »

Sandtrap wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 11:14 am 1 work with an architect on a fee basis. Get a plan.
2. Get contractor estimates, seek reputable ones with prior projects you might visit if possible.
3. Get it done.

The more folks you introduce into the Design >>> Build process, the more hands you have to fill with $$$$.
+1
The more you leave undecided the greater the margin the contractor has to build into his quote. One way is for you to offer to pay for all cosmetic items (bath, toilet, tiles, lights, vanity, etc.) directly and the contractor to include in his quote the hidden bits (low cost) like pipework and elbow joints, wiring, etc.; basically stuff you know nothing about.
decapod10
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by decapod10 »

msk wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 4:58 am
Sandtrap wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 11:14 am 1 work with an architect on a fee basis. Get a plan.
2. Get contractor estimates, seek reputable ones with prior projects you might visit if possible.
3. Get it done.

The more folks you introduce into the Design >>> Build process, the more hands you have to fill with $$$$.
+1
The more you leave undecided the greater the margin the contractor has to build into his quote. One way is for you to offer to pay for all cosmetic items (bath, toilet, tiles, lights, vanity, etc.) directly and the contractor to include in his quote the hidden bits (low cost) like pipework and elbow joints, wiring, etc.; basically stuff you know nothing about.
When we did an addition to our house, the contract stated a specific allowance for each cosmetic item (Showerhead $200, Vanity $300, etc). When it came time to choose the tile, showerhead, whatever, if we went over the stated allowance, he would charge us extra, or if we went under (which was pretty uncommon, lol) then we would get a credit.
skteam
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by skteam »

Goal33 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 am I know people in the SF Bay Area waiting for the next recession before starting their remodel.
Lots of people advised me to do this when I launched our big remodel. That was in 2014.
Marathon Man
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Marathon Man »

Holy Cow! $80k

I did my own guest bath this past winter. Stripped entire thing down to the studs. Took out tub and built show with new curb and all sealed in walls with pan. Tiled the entire bathroom floor to ceiling with accent tile in shower to match tile behind vanity. New toilet, vanity, sink, all new fixtures, towel racks, replumbed sink as it was off center, moved shower head higher on the wall to accommodate 6'2" height. New quartz counter top with undermount sink. Yes my wife watches HGTV too much and is quite a good designer.

All in for materials I was at $6,500. I'm in Sacramento suburbs. My guess is labor in Sacramento would have been another $8-12k. San Francisco labor will be for more. I can't see paying more than $25-30k on the high side in SF.
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x3t4a7
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by x3t4a7 »

skteam wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 3:10 pm
Goal33 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 am I know people in the SF Bay Area waiting for the next recession before starting their remodel.
Lots of people advised me to do this when I launched our big remodel. That was in 2014.
I was waiting for a recession around the same time before buying a place. Meanwhile, the price of real estate basically doubled since then in the bay area. At some point I realized that if if my theory with index funds was that time in the market beats timing the market, why was I trying to time the market with real estate?

The joke I made to a friend was that, if SF real estate is a ponzi scheme, at least I can live in my ponzi scheme. Well, at least until the next earthquake.
shorty313
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by shorty313 »

Two years ago we redid our master bath in kind all in for just over $12k and I was deliriously happy to get that price (NJ) after many higher bids. He was just a tile guy that subbed out the plumbing and electrical. Ours was 35 sq ft, your sounds downright palatial to me :D I highly doubt you can get that low in SF. But 80k is insane.
Goal33
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Goal33 »

x3t4a7 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 3:57 pm
skteam wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 3:10 pm
Goal33 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 am I know people in the SF Bay Area waiting for the next recession before starting their remodel.
Lots of people advised me to do this when I launched our big remodel. That was in 2014.
I was waiting for a recession around the same time before buying a place. Meanwhile, the price of real estate basically doubled since then in the bay area. At some point I realized that if if my theory with index funds was that time in the market beats timing the market, why was I trying to time the market with real estate?

The joke I made to a friend was that, if SF real estate is a ponzi scheme, at least I can live in my ponzi scheme. Well, at least until the next earthquake.
Except the remodel we are talking about in this case is not the difference between livable and unlivable conditions.
BusterMcTaco
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by BusterMcTaco »

x3t4a7 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 4:25 am10-15k per bathroom all-in with materials and labor would be incredible, but so far no one I've spoken with has given me even close to that price range. Of course, still many meetings to take.
I'm waiting for confirmation from my designer and contractor that I can refer them and will do so in PM if so. Our second bathroom was $13-$14k.
The reason I had originally gone to designers and design-build firms is that I don't really have much taste in design and I was concerned that if I just used a contractor alone, that I would ultimately have to make design decisions that I didn't feel comfortable making.
This is a valid point. Notably, I made a decision on the second bathroom (where we had no designer) that I regret. A designer with experience would have hopefully caught it early, and I somewhat blame the contractor for not stopping and asking me again when it obviously looked weird.
That said, I've started to just browse bathroom designs on houzz.com and I now realize that ultimately there isn't really that much variety in bathrooms. There's tile, vanity, shower/tubs... not a whole lot to it. So maybe getting a designer isn't as necessary as I thought. It seems like, in an 80sqft bathroom there's just not a lot of permutations of possible configurations you can make. I wasn't planning on moving any walls, but possibly moving a toilet, by splitting a tub nook into a shower stall and putting the toilet next to it? I guess we'll see. I still have a bunch of meetings set up still.
I don't regret a designer in our first bathroom. We had zero experience, and he was a buffer to work with the contractor and make decisions that we otherwise would have had no idea about, like tile edges, etc. But I also don't think a designer is a must.
niebeendend
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by niebeendend »

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I’m in a similar situation in San Francisco. We have worked with an independent designer to update our small bathroom in a condo. This involves starting over but not relocating anything major except the sink.

Bids for construction materials and labor are $50k. Materials/finishes separate. This seems insane, so I’m happy to hear others have found alternatives. If you have a good contractor, I’d love a referral over PM.
windpig
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by windpig »

I'm in the sales of plumbing and electrical materials in Seattle. I've been in the construction industry since the early 70's. Cost of construction is insane, period. Contractors can write there own meal ticket. Cost of permitting, along with parking and debris removal adds to the mess. None of the contractors that we deal with are able to keep good people, everybody is looking for people to hire.

Without fixtures (tub, vanity, vanity top, faucets, etc.) I would think labor and materials for a full size bathroom would be in the $15K to $25K range as long as no major plumbing, electrical, or structural. This would be in a residential neighborhood, not downtown. Also, consider your liability exposure if you're in a Condo.
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Socrates
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Socrates »

$80,000 to remodel a small bathroom????

Call someone outside the city.......tell them you will pay for their travel time or even to stay there.
“Don't waste your time looking back. You're not going that way.” ― Ragnar Lothbrok.
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Socrates
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Socrates »

$80,000 to remodel a small bathroom????

Call someone outside the city.......tell them you will pay for their travel time or even to stay there.
“Don't waste your time looking back. You're not going that way.” ― Ragnar Lothbrok.
SC Anteater
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by SC Anteater »

Goal33 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 am I know people in the SF Bay Area waiting for the next recession before starting their remodel.
That would be me. 2 awful bathrooms that I need to do but I'm waiting until folks are a little hungrier.
Bobby206
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by Bobby206 »

Curious what people are paying these days in or near the Bay? Things getting down to normal rip-off prices?
BusterMcTaco
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by BusterMcTaco »

I realized this was an old thread and I had already posted.
Last edited by BusterMcTaco on Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
refurb
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by refurb »

Remodeled a 1,200 sq ft sfh in SF last year.

Floors refinished, completely new kitchen, everything painted, took down a wall to open up the kitchen, complete re-wire as it was knob and tube.

Total was $80,000.

Rf
goldenboy
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Re: remodeling costs in san francisco

Post by goldenboy »

$35K spent a 1,500-sqft reno in the East Bay and I haven't even touched the kitchen or baths yet. So far I've updated everything inside the house but those spaces (hardwoods, lighting, paint, fixtures, and finishes). 1/4 of the cost went towards the least sexiest thing ever: encapsulated crawlspace and french drainage system. Was hoping it might be possible to do everything for under $100K, but I have a hard time thinking it will be doable with the finishes I want.
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