Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

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notsobright
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by notsobright » Sat May 18, 2019 12:58 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:01 pm
OP, I could probably have found it on your links, but what % of kids board at the private? FWIW, that’s not something we would have considered doing.
1400 students from k-12, 100 students in the UPPER level that board. I couldn't find out the exact number of upper level students though.

123
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by 123 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:01 pm

If they go to a private school 20 minutes away there will pretty much be losing the chance to build bonds with other kids in the neighborhood. Growing up with other kids in the neighborhood without the overbearing presence of parents to shuttle them to and fro can be one of the most valuable and memorable experiences of childhood. Why take it away?
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat May 18, 2019 1:05 pm

bltn wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:34 pm
Their high school stratified students academically. The top 20-30 students took many of the same classes together and had the same teachers. The same for the next 25-30 students down the academic ladder.
That can be dangerous for some kids. My kids are somewhat slow developing. My son was tracked to a low achieving math track in middle school, placed in remedial math classes, and the school refused to reevaluate. When he went to the private school, they evaluated him and put him in advanced math classes. Long story short, he graduated from Yale with a combined Bachelors and Masters in computer science with an emphasis on math heavy topics.

My takeaway: some well regarded schools are so busy reading their press clippings that they have no time to reconsider their decisions.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat May 18, 2019 1:09 pm

123 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:01 pm
If they go to a private school 20 minutes away there will pretty much be losing the chance to build bonds with other kids in the neighborhood. Growing up with other kids in the neighborhood without the overbearing presence of parents to shuttle them to and fro can be one of the most valuable and memorable experiences of childhood. Why take it away?
My kids were friends with their classmates, hockey teammates, etc. Where they lived didn’t matter as much as what they were interested in.
My son is, this very minute, looking at apartments in NYC with his private high school friends.
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KyleAAA
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by KyleAAA » Sat May 18, 2019 1:09 pm

Why would the school’s test scores have anything to do with how YOUR children will score? There is no good evidence that outcomes improve due to a private school education and lots of evidence of the negative consequences of this type of self-segregation.
Last edited by KyleAAA on Sat May 18, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thx1138
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by thx1138 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:13 pm

Ah, you are in BCPS. I understand why you are looking to private. That system, formerly great, has gone through one bad turn after another.

For those not familar:

First there was a new curriculum roll out that turned instead into an IT misadventure that drove away many senior staff. Then they decided to revamp their gifted program by essentially eliminating it and throwing another burden onto the teachers. After that they decided to put tablets instead of teachers in front of the students (a separate effort after they rolled out the new curriculum a few years earlier). And to cap it off that tablet program was a massive kickback to the administration which literally landed the superintendent in prison.

You have a lot of private options in the area and many are very good. Because of the multiple private options there isn't a particular concentration of top student talent in any one in particular. As others said pay attention to the commute. Have DW drive it a few times to try it out at the appropriate times. Also as others warned having multiple ages at the school might result in multiple pickup times if some are involved in activities the others aren't.

Closer options to you that are considered "highly rated" with easier commutes would be Park School or Friends for coed and Bryn Mawr or Gilman for girls/boys only. There are also highly rated parochial schools in the area. I'd take the time to visit a few more schools before making a multi-year commitment to one or the other (or perhaps you've already done that!).

Best of luck!

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by thx1138 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:18 pm

123 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:01 pm
If they go to a private school 20 minutes away there will pretty much be losing the chance to build bonds with other kids in the neighborhood. Growing up with other kids in the neighborhood without the overbearing presence of parents to shuttle them to and fro can be one of the most valuable and memorable experiences of childhood. Why take it away?
I never went to a school in my neighborhood and yet had friends in my neighborhood with whom we tooled around on our bikes with no supervision for the whole summer. What mattered was we were in a neighborhood where we could do such things, not that we all went to the same school in the neighborhood.

staythecourse
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse » Sat May 18, 2019 1:20 pm

Interesting question and one asked over and over again. I think you really need to decide WHY you are considering private. From what your original post the ONLY reason I would consider it is because you said a couple of your kids are the top of the class. IF the private school can offer MORE academic challenge to your kid go for it (and I mean being OBJECTIVE in the assertion). My impression from researching it in our metro city is they do NOT do that. The private in our area hype a lot, charge a ton (well above cost of living comparisons to anywhere else in the country) and still have kids who just do okay on the academic side.

We are in the same financial situation and could easily send our kids to a 50k/ year school EACH without affecting our finances and still chose to send to public. Why waste the money if there is not definitive academic edge? Our 1st grader reads at a 4th grade level and does division and fractions and can tell you it isn't because of the school. We consider school in the U.S. as the very bottom level of expectations. We challenge her at home. Great thing about free education is the community feeling, diversity (we are in a magnet that takes equal amounts from all the socioeconomic demos), and we have more then enough free money to supplement our kids interest going forward or finances available to hire whatever tutors she needs.

Good luck.
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ytrewq
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ytrewq » Sat May 18, 2019 1:40 pm

MD has one of the most competitive / accomplished student-body esp. in public schools around Bethesda (Montgomery County) called W schools as their names start with W - Walt Whitman, Wootton, and Walter Johnson. I would encourage you to compare outcomes of your local & private high school with those of W schools in terms of National Merit Semifinalists, National AP Scholars, admits to UMD, Elite Colleges etc and then decide. College outcome of private school you mentioned seems pretty well as students are joining many Top-25 Univs (similar to the 3 W schools in Montgomery County).
https://www.mcdonogh.org/community/stud ... ge-choices
I could not find School profile/College outcomes for local Dulaney HS. A school with 50% free-lunch student body will not have same level of rigor, peer-motivation, extracurricular achievement in Music, Sports, Science etc. Unless the student is highly self-motivated & parents are deeply involved the influence of high-achieving peers does motivate a normal student to achieve more. Also with grade-inflation (almost any average student gets a 4.0 GPA now) and SAT scores clustering to 1500-1600 they are becoming more of a bare-minimum entry-criteria and emphasis on extra-curricular achievement is increasing.
Last edited by ytrewq on Sat May 18, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Davinci
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Davinci » Sat May 18, 2019 1:42 pm

We just went through this situation recently. We decided to send our oldest to private school for $30K/year for Middle School. The school was so far that it took 2-3 hours per day from our life’s that it became tiresome and burdensome as they do not offer transportation.

The pluses were that the clases were small with no more than 10 kids per classroom. Most parents seem to be involved on their kids learning and education and trouble kids are quickly disciplined and expelled so there is a safe environment.

The minuses were the time lost on transportation and the privilege and entiltlement displayed many kids and parents and lack of connection to reality that always complained about everything that it was fixed not allowing kids to develop grit, character due to the uncertainties of Life.

For the second year we applied to a charter school that has excellent ratings and offers bus service 1 block from our house. Our daughter is thriving the same as in private school and the homework is much more intense than the private school so we are very happy with her education and saving $30k/year that is invested to help her later in life.

Doing community work to inspire kids to pursue STEM careers in different school districts and walks of life, I am big believer that if parents are very involved in the education that any kid in any school can be successful.

It is true that some public schools have more dangers that private such as disrupting kids/parents, drugs, etc but I do not think private schools are exempt from that. We found that where we live there are more drugs in private schools and public schools in districts where the rich live on million dollar houses.

There are many different factors and it is a complex decision. Private schools cost a lot of money and in many cases might not be the best choice. I encourage you to also look at charters schools in your area, so offer the same or better education than private.
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GCD
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD » Sat May 18, 2019 1:57 pm

Yeah, I can see why you are considering this move.

In response to a couple of replies... School ending time can vary depending on your kids' activities. Even in middle school (6-8th grades around here) my kids varied in after school activities, sports, etc. This gave quite a variation in when they needed to be picked up. High School has been even more dramatic. Also, once they get to HS it's no big deal if you need to come an hour late or something, they can just go to the library and do their homework or something.

I'm not sure kids in the neighborhood socialize much together anymore. My kids spend their time online socializing with friends from school over playing with kids in the neighborhood. However, while I was previously distressed by that I note that nobody seems to play outside in our neighborhood. Furthermore, universally (and I do mean universally) every parent and teacher that I have talked to in person about this is experiencing the same thing. On the internet I read about kids playing together in the neighborhood, but I think it may be an urban legend...

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD » Sat May 18, 2019 2:00 pm

ytrewq wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:40 pm
Also with grade-inflation (almost any average student gets a 4.0 GPA now) and SAT scores clustering to 1500-1600 they are becoming more of a bare-minimum entry-criteria and emphasis on extra-curricular achievement is increasing.
This is a point I recently made to my kids. Their HS 50th percentile GPA is a B+. A perfect A+ gets you into the 10th percentile. If you want to break the top tenth you need to pretty much get straight A+s and pick up a bunch of weighted classes.

susze
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by susze » Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm

Be very careful about hidden costs of forced donations. Its mostly with top 10 boarding schools but has trickled down into many day schools.

It usually requires an additional 25-50k a year in donations depending on the school. They get you 2 ways. One, if you have a sibling they will not allow that sibling to get in, the other way is that they wont endorse you to apply to colleges of your choice.

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 18, 2019 2:04 pm

GCD wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:57 pm


I'm not sure kids in the neighborhood socialize much together anymore. My kids spend their time online socializing with friends from school over playing with kids in the neighborhood. However, while I was previously distressed by that I note that nobody seems to play outside in our neighborhood. Furthermore, universally (and I do mean universally) every parent and teacher that I have talked to in person about this is experiencing the same thing. On the internet I read about kids playing together in the neighborhood, but I think it may be an urban legend...
I consider myself fortunate that this isn't the case for my kids, though they are just 7 and 4. They have tons of friends in the neighborhood, they are outside riding their bikes and scooters most of the time, and my daughter has school friends over all the time. We have a tablet, but it is hidden away except for use on family trips. It is literally turned on 2x-3x a year. But ask my nieces (13 and 12) to name their friends and they will say the screen names of people they chat and play games with online. They don't have any real world friends. I don't know if that is common in their neighborhood, but when kids are allowed 8-10hrs/day of screentime I can't imagine any other result. It is scary, and it is not abnormal.

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD » Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm

susze wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm
Be very careful about hidden costs of forced donations. Its mostly with top 10 boarding schools but has trickled down into many day schools.

It usually requires an additional 25-50k a year in donations depending on the school. They get you 2 ways. One, if you have a sibling they will not allow that sibling to get in, the other way is that they wont endorse you to apply to colleges of your choice.
That's crazy. Do you have a source for that? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious about it.

RJC
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by RJC » Sat May 18, 2019 2:21 pm

ytrewq wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:40 pm
MD has one of the most competitive / accomplished student-body esp. in public schools around Bethesda (Montgomery County) called W schools as their names start with W - Walt Whitman, Wootton, and Walter Johnson. I would encourage you to compare outcomes of your local & private high school with those of W schools in terms of National Merit Semifinalists, National AP Scholars, admits to UMD, Elite Colleges etc and then decide. College outcome of private school you mentioned seems pretty well as students are joining many Top-25 Univs (similar to the 3 W schools in Montgomery County).
https://www.mcdonogh.org/community/stud ... ge-choices
I could not find School profile/College outcomes for local Dulaney HS. A school with 50% free-lunch student body will not have same level of rigor, peer-motivation, extracurricular achievement in Music, Sports, Science etc. Unless the student is highly self-motivated & parents are deeply involved the influence of high-achieving peers does motivate a normal student to achieve more. Also with grade-inflation (almost any average student gets a 4.0 GPA now) and SAT scores clustering to 1500-1600 they are becoming more of a bare-minimum entry-criteria and emphasis on extra-curricular achievement is increasing.
We are in the Wootton district and have considered private. In the end we decided public and if they are driven, help them with a more elite grad school. These days, I think it's more about which profession you choose than where you graduate from (esp. primary college).

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat May 18, 2019 2:34 pm

GCD wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm
susze wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm
Be very careful about hidden costs of forced donations. Its mostly with top 10 boarding schools but has trickled down into many day schools.
It usually requires an additional 25-50k a year in donations depending on the school. They get you 2 ways. One, if you have a sibling they will not allow that sibling to get in, the other way is that they wont endorse you to apply to colleges of your choice.
That's crazy. Do you have a source for that? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious about it.
That was not our experience. They often asked for donations, but there was no blackmail or extortion, not even a hint. I would think what is being suggested is criminal.
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Watty
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Watty » Sat May 18, 2019 2:41 pm

You may be asking the wrong question by focusing on the schools.

Something I heard when I was trying to help my son apply for colleges was, "It is not about finding the best college, it is about finding the college that is the best fit for your kid." There is a lot of truth in that.

My situation was a lot different but one thing I learned is that every kid is different so you have to be flexible and try things to see what works for your kid. You are fortunate to be able to afford to afford lots of options and if something does not work you can try something else.

For some kids being at the top of their class in a public school might work better than being a below average student in an elite private school so that is a consideration too.

It is even possible that the private school would be best for one of your kids and the public school would be best for another. I don't recall the details but a while back there was a post where someone mentioned that one of their kids was going to private school but a sibling that was just a few years different in age was going to a public school. In addition to the kids having different personalities I think that the difference was something like the public school had a band program that was important to the kid that went there. This is not as uncommon as you might think.

It would also be good to keep an open mind about other alternatives since there may be other private schools that are closer, magnet schools, or moving to a different school district. Hiring a tutor for after school study might also be a better use of their time than spending an extra hour a day commuting.

One other question that has not come up is if you can actually get all three kids into the private school. If it is really an elite school then just being able to write a check for the tuition may not be enough to get them in the school. If just being able to write a check is enough to get them in the school then the school may be socially elite but not as academically elite as they would like you to think.
Last edited by Watty on Sat May 18, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

bluebolt
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by bluebolt » Sat May 18, 2019 2:42 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
Studies show that parental influence on children's behavioral traits are probably not nearly that high.

inbox788
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by inbox788 » Sat May 18, 2019 2:47 pm

bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:42 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
Studies show that parental influence on children's behavioral traits are probably not nearly that high.
Are these behavioral traits more genetic or environmental? And where do peers fit in, and what's the association or correlation between peers and school vs parents?

And there are those 230% sums of multi-factorial influence measurements, say peers 100% and other/unknown factors 30%.

The wider the gap between the private vs public the easier the decision. If it were "very good" public, I'd choose public. This situation looks more like "good, but not really that great", so I'd lean towards private. And if the private were on this list, it would push it more towards private.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1332569 ... ities.html
https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/n ... -most.html
Last edited by inbox788 on Sat May 18, 2019 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by goodenyou » Sat May 18, 2019 2:47 pm

bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:42 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
Studies show that parental influence on children's behavioral traits are probably not nearly that high.
Thanks. You made me feel better :D
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BrendanP
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by BrendanP » Sat May 18, 2019 3:14 pm

My wife and I both attended public schools(NYC and CT), and did well enough to attend top-tier colleges and grad schools. I think that a lot of the success comes from your own motivation and family upbringing. We are both public school teachers in the Bronx (Almost a decade each) and strongly against private schools and charters. The public school systems (NYC especially) are very desegregated and need more middle and upper class parents involved.

From the public school description, there's obviously a large disparity in the test scores between white/Asian and everyone else. There's always a large correlation between poverty and test scores. Take that for what you will.

staythecourse
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse » Sat May 18, 2019 3:39 pm

RJC wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:21 pm
These days, I think it's more about which profession you choose than where you graduate from (esp. primary college).
Bingo. Here is the "secret" about making money in life. One will get paid based on the range of salaries that go with that profession outside of outliers. In my opinion, in relation to this thread is that unless there is CONCRETE evidence going to x school gets you a better chance into y profession I wouldn't be interested.

For the OP, you have to ask yourself really why you are considering private. IF it is social reasons or academic. If it is the latter make sure they show you the data. IN our area only 2 of the private schools have any data they are any better then the several public schools that you can just buy a house in. The metrics I used were how many got into the elite public high schools in our area and what colleges their grads went to after grad. J

Just spoke to a neighbor couple of weeks ago at the park who I found out is the college counselor of one of these in demand private schools and no surprise she is going to send her kids to the public school as she said the difference in education was not worth it.

Good luck.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by leeks » Sat May 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Stay public and switch only if it actually stops working for your kids. Use your wife's time (and maybe even some of your own funds) to assist and avocate for the public school as it adapts to serving a different demographic mix. Do they have a full-time social worker and nurse in-house, for example? With 50 percent of children from poverty-level families, they need those. If not, organize the parents to demand it from school board.

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by bluebirdy » Sat May 18, 2019 3:51 pm

If money is not an issue whatsoever, my vote would be to go private.

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by skime » Sat May 18, 2019 3:59 pm

notsobright wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:18 am
Hello, my kids will going into 4th 2nd and K this coming school year. The 2 oldest are doing well but my DW and I have growing reservations about the nearby public school system. Currently the elementary /middle / and high schools are all “B” rated schools (6/10 great school rankings). We have the option to send all 3 children next year to a “prestigious” very expensive college prep private school for 30k a pop (90k /yr for all 3)

Money isn’t an issue (sold a business). And we love our house and location so moving is out of the question. The private school is only about 20 minutes away.

I’ve already read every private school post on this board :) but still wanted to hear what you all might have to say. So, What would you guys do in my situation? Keep rolling the dice with the “good enough” school district that our kids have done well in so far, or send them to the elite private school that is extremely expensive but still well within our budget?

** DW and I are also very impressed by the private school offerings fwiw, much smaller class sizes , great arts, athletics , and community programs)
** DW and I both went to rather poor public schools



*** EDIT **** MORE DETAILS AS REQUESTED

Lots of people asking what our reservations are.

The schools have recently been rezoned, going from 10% free lunch to 50% free lunch. As you can imagine, this has a direct correlation with the school's test scores. We also spent a day observing the kids and noticed some disruptive children with behavior problems that we felt were not handled to our satisfaction, this was really the event that kick started this whole thing.

The 3rd and the 1st grader are both at the top of their class.
DW is a SAHM.


I'll just spill out some specifics, here's the school where they attend now

https://www.greatschools.org/maryland/t ... ry-School/
https://www.schooldigger.com/go/MD/scho ... chool.aspx
https://www.niche.com/k12/pot-spring-el ... monium-md/

and the private school we're looking at

https://www.niche.com/k12/mcdonogh-scho ... -mills-md/


** EDIT 2 **

For fun I decided to start keeping score:
Stay Public: 14
Switch to Private: 17
Do Both: 5
Do a little research on the percentage of Fortune 500 CEOs that went to private schools vs public. You'll find that the overwhelming majority went public.

Private doesn't necessarily equate to success. I have some extremely wealthy and grounded and charitable lifelong friends. We all went to public school. The people that I know that went to private didn't exactly turn out the way "their parents would have hoped for."

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat May 18, 2019 4:09 pm

bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:42 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
Studies show that parental influence on children's behavioral traits are probably not nearly that high.
What studies? Don’t just make up numbers.

I would say on average that may be true because some parents are just terrible parents.

Bacchus01
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat May 18, 2019 4:10 pm

notsobright wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:58 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:56 am

Top of their class in 1st and 3rs grade?

That’s not even a thing.
They have the highest test scores in their respective grades ? Not sure how else to put it.
Meh. What test scores? The standardized ones that they scored a 99th on that so did half their class?

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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat May 18, 2019 4:11 pm

skime wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:59 pm
notsobright wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:18 am
Hello, my kids will going into 4th 2nd and K this coming school year. The 2 oldest are doing well but my DW and I have growing reservations about the nearby public school system. Currently the elementary /middle / and high schools are all “B” rated schools (6/10 great school rankings). We have the option to send all 3 children next year to a “prestigious” very expensive college prep private school for 30k a pop (90k /yr for all 3)

Money isn’t an issue (sold a business). And we love our house and location so moving is out of the question. The private school is only about 20 minutes away.

I’ve already read every private school post on this board :) but still wanted to hear what you all might have to say. So, What would you guys do in my situation? Keep rolling the dice with the “good enough” school district that our kids have done well in so far, or send them to the elite private school that is extremely expensive but still well within our budget?

** DW and I are also very impressed by the private school offerings fwiw, much smaller class sizes , great arts, athletics , and community programs)
** DW and I both went to rather poor public schools



*** EDIT **** MORE DETAILS AS REQUESTED

Lots of people asking what our reservations are.

The schools have recently been rezoned, going from 10% free lunch to 50% free lunch. As you can imagine, this has a direct correlation with the school's test scores. We also spent a day observing the kids and noticed some disruptive children with behavior problems that we felt were not handled to our satisfaction, this was really the event that kick started this whole thing.

The 3rd and the 1st grader are both at the top of their class.
DW is a SAHM.


I'll just spill out some specifics, here's the school where they attend now

https://www.greatschools.org/maryland/t ... ry-School/
https://www.schooldigger.com/go/MD/scho ... chool.aspx
https://www.niche.com/k12/pot-spring-el ... monium-md/

and the private school we're looking at

https://www.niche.com/k12/mcdonogh-scho ... -mills-md/


** EDIT 2 **

For fun I decided to start keeping score:
Stay Public: 14
Switch to Private: 17
Do Both: 5
Do a little research on the percentage of Fortune 500 CEOs that went to private schools vs public. You'll find that the overwhelming majority went public.

Private doesn't necessarily equate to success. I have some extremely wealthy and grounded and charitable lifelong friends. We all went to public school. The people that I know that went to private didn't exactly turn out the way "their parents would have hoped for."
And the number one is consistently UW-Madison

Steven in NC
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Steven in NC » Sat May 18, 2019 4:13 pm

Money no issue? Private. You have input into the process that will be considered. Public...not so much.

ETA that public AND private schools have issues and BOTH churn out successful people. But you have already illustrated issues with today's public schools that go on uncorrected. Like I mentioned, with private you have a say in getting things corrected. In the end neither route guarantees success or failure. You know that though.

bluebolt
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by bluebolt » Sat May 18, 2019 5:10 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:09 pm
bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:42 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
Studies show that parental influence on children's behavioral traits are probably not nearly that high.
What studies? Don’t just make up numbers.

I would say on average that may be true because some parents are just terrible parents.
Your made up numbers are apparently more accurate than mine. Somehow mine have to be justified with studies, but yours do not?

In any case, here's a meta-analysis, you can reference:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3285

I await your studies.

FoolMeOnce
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by FoolMeOnce » Sat May 18, 2019 5:20 pm

Steven in NC wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:13 pm
Money no issue? Private. You have input into the process that will be considered. Public...not so much.
I kind of see it the opposite way. Money can buy parental influence in public schools and the competition in that regard will be much lower.

ThankYouJack
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat May 18, 2019 5:45 pm

Tough call, but I'd probably go private, if money is no issue.

What are your thoughts on common core and how closely does MD follow it? If you like more teaching flexibility, that could be another reason for private.

I'd say talk to parents at the private school to see how they like it, but if they're paying $30k / year it's obvious they like it. Can you talk to the administration and teachers to see how you connect?

You could also ask your kids how they feel about it although they're probably a bit young to grasp.

I went to public myself but had friends who went to a top boarding school in the country. I think I had a better social experience (they were considered townies since they lived at home) but their academic experience was better. With that said, we both got into similar colleges. In the long run, it's probably not going to make a big difference.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat May 18, 2019 5:55 pm

We never considered private school because we were concerned that the elitist attitude would be inbred into our children. We moved when our youngest was about to enter 10th grade, and intentionally did not look for homes in the 99% Caucasian school district, instead picking the equally good district that was just over 50% Caucasian. The number of BMWs in the parking lot conveys to us a place to stay away from.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

ThankYouJack
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat May 18, 2019 6:09 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:55 pm
We never considered private school because we were concerned that the elitist attitude would be inbred into our children. We moved when our youngest was about to enter 10th grade, and intentionally did not look for homes in the 99% Caucasian school district, instead picking the equally good district that was just over 50% Caucasian. The number of BMWs in the parking lot conveys to us a place to stay away from.
Are you basing that on experience and actually getting to know the people and they all come across as elitist? I know BMW owners get a bad rap, but the ones I know are nice, generous and very down to earth people. They don't look down on me although they may look down on my $4,000 car :wink:

Calidude
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Calidude » Sat May 18, 2019 6:37 pm

There is no correct answer so it really depends on your family. I don’t have any advice but I will say that I have a few friends that went to McDonough and they all raves about the education. They also came from relatively privileged backgrounds and mostly did fine in life although the kids from Gilman and Park did well also.

If money is no object, private schools can be dangerous because they create an echo chamber of wealth, but that can be offset by parenting.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 6:09 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:55 pm
We never considered private school because we were concerned that the elitist attitude would be inbred into our children. We moved when our youngest was about to enter 10th grade, and intentionally did not look for homes in the 99% Caucasian school district, instead picking the equally good district that was just over 50% Caucasian. The number of BMWs in the parking lot conveys to us a place to stay away from.
Are you basing that on experience and actually getting to know the people and they all come across as elitist? I know BMW owners get a bad rap, but the ones I know are nice, generous and very down to earth people. They don't look down on me although they may look down on my $4,000 car :wink:
I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

staythecourse
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse » Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm

Steven in NC wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:13 pm
Money no issue? Private. You have input into the process that will be considered. Public...not so much.

ETA that public AND private schools have issues and BOTH churn out successful people. But you have already illustrated issues with today's public schools that go on uncorrected. Like I mentioned, with private you have a say in getting things corrected. In the end neither route guarantees success or failure. You know that though.
Wow, the privates I know takes A LOT of money to have any pull, i.e. think 100k+ per year on top of tuition cost. We know several couples who pulled out of private just for that reason. They thought they could have more pull paying 30k+ in tuition to find out the school doesn't care unless you are going to buy a new wing or build a building. Give 500k+ to the school then you start talking.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

Bacchus01
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat May 18, 2019 7:28 pm

bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:10 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:09 pm
bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:42 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
Studies show that parental influence on children's behavioral traits are probably not nearly that high.
What studies? Don’t just make up numbers.

I would say on average that may be true because some parents are just terrible parents.
Your made up numbers are apparently more accurate than mine. Somehow mine have to be justified with studies, but yours do not?

In any case, here's a meta-analysis, you can reference:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3285

I await your studies.
I wasn’t talking genetics, but since you are, the report states that 49% of traits are hereditary. Am I missing something about your argument?

michaeljc70
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat May 18, 2019 7:30 pm

I would stick with the public probably and supplement that. $90k can buy a lot of tutors, extracurricular activities, educational travel, etc. Frankly, 90k can probably get you a live in teacher! As others said, the diversity of a public school is also worth something.

thx1138
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by thx1138 » Sat May 18, 2019 7:31 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm
I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
I went to a private high school with a fair number of wealthy families but very high academic standards, challenging entrance exams and kids “not invited back” if they didn’t continue to meet those standards. Those standards tended to filter out those that were elitist to a small enough population that the environment was friendly for a middle class kid like me.

But - of those that remained indeed what the *kid* drove was fairly well correlated with their attitude and outcomes. The ones with the inappropriate vehicles in fact did inappropriate things. The ones with the beaters (even if their parents drove expensive cars) did well and turned out alright.

I think looking at what’s in the *student* parking lot might give you a quick read on what the culture at the school is ;).

GCD
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD » Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm
I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?

stoptothink
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:28 pm
bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:10 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:09 pm
bluebolt wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:42 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
Studies show that parental influence on children's behavioral traits are probably not nearly that high.
What studies? Don’t just make up numbers.

I would say on average that may be true because some parents are just terrible parents.
Your made up numbers are apparently more accurate than mine. Somehow mine have to be justified with studies, but yours do not?

In any case, here's a meta-analysis, you can reference:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3285

I await your studies.
I wasn’t talking genetics, but since you are, the report states that 49% of traits are hereditary. Am I missing something about your argument?
That is a VERY well known study (obviously, it is in Nature) and I have no idea how it is relevant to what you said. Not saying Bluebolt is necessarily wrong, but as someone who designs studies for a living, my initial thought is I'd love to hear an objective method of collecting generalizable evidence on the subject at all. Anecdotally, I'm totally with you on this one.
Last edited by stoptothink on Sat May 18, 2019 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

michaeljc70
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 pm

GCD wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm
I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
I disagree. Of course you don't have to pretend you are poor. Thinking that because the parents are high wealth that the kids will all be is speculative. Granted, if they have billions it probably isn't an issue. But $10M is high net worth (to me) and if the parents have to live off that and they have 5 kids that will split what is left.... I think you can instill a work ethic and explain that money doesn't grow on trees without making them drive a junker. Maybe it is a newer model middle class car or slightly older luxury car. Maybe it is giving them a reasonable allowance and letting them choose how they spend it. Maybe it is telling them "no" sometimes regardless if you can afford it. Maybe it is telling them they will get the best education money can buy but the parents fortune will all go to charity.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat May 18, 2019 7:49 pm

My kids took the bus, even as seniors because they had zero need for a car. Entitlement did not exist in our household.

We gave each child a vehicle at college graduation, worth $2,500. Family vehicle, good shape, owned since new, just old.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Sat May 18, 2019 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

stoptothink
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 18, 2019 7:50 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 pm
GCD wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm
I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
I disagree. Of course you don't have to pretend you are poor. Thinking that because the parents are high wealth that the kids will all be is speculative. Granted, if they have billions it probably isn't an issue. But $10M is high net worth (to me) and if the parents have to live off that and they have 5 kids that will split what is left.... I think you can instill a work ethic and explain that money doesn't grow on trees without making them drive a junker. Maybe it is a newer model middle class car or slightly older luxury car. Maybe it is giving them a reasonable allowance and letting them choose how they spend it. Maybe it is telling them "no" sometimes regardless if you can afford it. Maybe it is telling them they will get the best education money can buy but the parents fortune will all go to charity.
+1. I didn't realize it is was required to drive a luxury/exotic car and live in a Mansion if you are high net worth. Some of the wealthiest people I know don't do those things. If you are sending your kids to an elite private school, they'll eventually figure out you are not exactly struggling, but there can be quite a delta between that and buying your teen a BMW.

sambb
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by sambb » Sat May 18, 2019 7:53 pm

would go private for sure given the OP's comments.. Good luck.h

ThankYouJack
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat May 18, 2019 7:57 pm

IMO, seems like there's some bigotry in some of the responses. I had a friend in HS with a BMW and she wasn't elitist and her family wasn't loaded. She never felt entitled and turned out well. I realize we're a LBYM don't waste money type of crowd, but until we actually get to know people how much judging should we do?

harrychan
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by harrychan » Sat May 18, 2019 8:00 pm

TL:DR.

My vote is for private. We were at similar cross roads except we did not sell a business although we have a comfortable nest egg ($1mil+) and good income ($150k+). Our compromise was we found a great private school that didn't cost an arm and a leg. It was the best decision. Our public school wasn't a bad system but it lacked the curriculum we come to expect in elementary schools such as music and arts. Academically, it also wasn't challenging at all and there was no opportunity to do any accelerated programs. As we started to see our older boy get bored at school, we switched.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.

thx1138
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by thx1138 » Sat May 18, 2019 8:09 pm

GCD wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm
I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
You seem to be missing the point because you haven’t had experience with bad private school families or else folks are doing a horrible job explaining. Some of these schools have kids driving brand new BMWs bought for them.

Heck my class had a kid in a brand new Porsche just for him. He tried to outrun the CHP forgetting they have radios. His lawyer Dad got him off and he kept his license if you can believe it.

Another class above mine had a girl with a brand new BMW. She accidentally drove it through the front of a 7/11 trying to back out of a parking space. While it was being fixed she drove a dealer loaner. She drove that through the front of the family’s garage.

You get too many of these kinds of families/kids in a school and it is a problem.

Most kids in my school, even the ones with extremely wealthy parents, drove used cheap cars that are sensible for a teenager to drive and if they screwed up their parents took the car away. Some if the timing worked out did drive a 15 yr old BMW as it was the old family car.

Since most everyone had reasonable parents we all looked at the few elitist and entitled ones with amusement and the overall culture was positive. Another private school in the area was the opposite where entitlement was the norm.

Locked