BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

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Topic Author
cas
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:41 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm

cas wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:00 am
I ordered a checkbook from BenefitWallet 7 days ago, planning to try the 60-day-rollover method via a check made out directly to Fidelity (as described on the Fidelity website). The checkbook has not yet arrived . . .
Update: The BenefitWallet checks arrived!

Timeline: 11 days total, 8 business days
-Ordered: Tuesday 1/15 (ordered online via the Order Checks page on the BenefitWallet web site)
-Received: Friday 1/25

No $10 charge has shown up on my account, so I think they probably counted this as the first checkbook I ever ordered and waived the charge (as the fee schedule said they would.) Given BenefitWallet's seeming skill at harvesting one last $25 nonsufficient funds fee out of departing accounts, I don't entirely trust the $10 fee not to show up at some unexpected point in the future, though.

If I sound doubtful about the whole $10 fee thing, it is because the original account-welcome-package signature card that I had to sign (many years ago) had a checkbox you could mark if you wanted them to send checks. And I had checked that checkbox. (I have a copy of this signature card form because it was also the form used to designate beneficiaries.) The thing is - I don't think I actually ever received those checks, although I couldn't 100% guarantee that. But they aren't in the drawer where I keep that kind of thing, even though the BenefitWallet debit card I ordered at the same time is in there.

One other somewhat disturbing oddity about the checks: it was completely obvious through the unopened envelope that checks were inside. The clear window in the envelope was so large that it not only showed address/return address, but also that typical statement written on the front of checkbooks:

IMPORTANT: Please Inspect All Documents Before Using. Verify:
1. Your name and address
2. The name of your financial institution
3. Your account number
etc.


Combine that with the following statement I found in the BenefitWallet deposit account agreement, and it leaves me somewhat :shock:
You will be responsible for, and we will not reimburse you or have any liability to you for, any of the following: [. . .]

(iii) Any Check Transaction arising from a forgery, counterfeit or an alteration that a reasonable person could not detect it (for example unauthorized Checks made with your facsimile signature device or that look to an average person as if they contain an authorized signature)
I don't even want to imagine dealing with BenefitWallet if the (completely obvious) checks were stolen out of the mail and fraudulently used to access my account.

But ... all's well that ends well, and the checks did, in fact, arrive safely in my hands. :sharebeer

(Side note: The above statement by BenefitWallet, absolving themselves of responsibility for asset-theft-via-fraudulent-check does not seem to jive with normal consumer protections on retail banking accounts, as described by the government agencies on their websites. Maybe FDIC-insured HSA "deposit accounts" somehow escape normal consumer protections for normal retail bank accounts?)

Topic Author
cas
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:41 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:20 pm

cas wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm
Update: The BenefitWallet checks arrived!
Update:

Saturday 1/26: Mailed BenefitWallet check + Fidelity deposit slip to Fidelity, all marked 60-day rollover. (Held back a very small amount in BenefitWallet HSA to pay any possible fees, like the upcoming 1/31 account fee, to prevent check from bouncing if timing was off.)

Monday 1/28:
- Can see amount of check as "Cash credit from unsettled activity" in my Fidelity HSA!!!
- Can see the same amount listed as "Distributions this year" in my BenefitWallet Account. Does not yet show up in transactions and has not yet been subtracted from "Available Balance" so I guess it is more like a pending distribution right now.

Wow. Things are apparently progressing very rapidly (for once!). Even the US Mail was apparently very cooperative. Fingers crossed that BenefitWallet can't come up with any reason to stall or deny now!

(Once this big check settles, I'll explain what I'm going to do with the small amount left at BenefitWallet, provided they don't grab it all for assorted fees.)

athan
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by athan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:30 pm

cas wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:20 pm
cas wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:29 pm
Update: The BenefitWallet checks arrived!
Update:

Saturday 1/26: Mailed BenefitWallet check + Fidelity deposit slip to Fidelity, all marked 60-day rollover. (Held back a very small amount in BenefitWallet HSA to pay any possible fees, like the upcoming 1/31 account fee, to prevent check from bouncing if timing was off.)

Monday 1/28:
- Can see amount of check as "Cash credit from unsettled activity" in my Fidelity HSA!!!
- Can see the same amount listed as "Distributions this year" in my BenefitWallet Account. Does not yet show up in transactions and has not yet been subtracted from "Available Balance" so I guess it is more like a pending distribution right now.

Wow. Things are apparently progressing very rapidly (for once!). Even the US Mail was apparently very cooperative. Fingers crossed that BenefitWallet can't come up with any reason to stall or deny now!

(Once this big check settles, I'll explain what I'm going to do with the small amount left at BenefitWallet, provided they don't grab it all for assorted fees.)
After dealing with BenefitWallett, what would you suggest I do when transferring to Fidelity? I'm assuming the best way to handle it is to transfer all funds out of investments first. Once all funds are in bank account, should I simply pay the $25 fee to transfer to Fidelity? Is there a better way to handle it?

chessknt
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:15 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by chessknt » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:22 pm

I'm confused--why can't you use fidelity account transfer form instead for using benefit wallets check?

Topic Author
cas
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:41 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:29 pm

athan wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:30 pm
After dealing with BenefitWallett, what would you suggest I do when transferring to Fidelity? I'm assuming the best way to handle it is to transfer all funds out of investments first.
BenefitWallet/Fidelity requires that all funds on the SaveDaily investment platform be liquidated and moved back to the BenefitWallet deposit account before the funds can be transferred anywhere (by any method.)

As described in the first half of this thread, be aware that SaveDaily will prevent you from liquidating your investments while their monthly fee is in-process. This "in-process" phase starts on the 5th of every month and, looking back at my transaction records for the last 6 months, has not completed until the 11th of the month at the earliest, with it usually lasting to somewhere between the 13th and 15th of the month.
Once all funds are in bank account, should I simply pay the $25 fee to transfer to Fidelity? Is there a better way to handle it?
There are at least 3 (and maybe 4) people currently in-process with getting their HSA assets from BenefitWallet to Fidelity, who are reporting their experiences on this thread. I'd recommend continuing to watch this thread to see how it all turns out over the next week or so.

2 people are doing the trustee-to-trustee transfer. Ant7's is predicted by Fidelity to complete by February 5. beebog's is predicted to complete a little earlier, I think.

I am trying the 60-day rollover method.

Continue following this thread, and you'll see how the two different methods work out in our individual cases. Then you can make a decision on which method you want to use.

I initially was completely intending to do use the trustee-to-trustee method - and would have preferred that method. However, the "warning warning red flag" hairs on the back of my neck starting going up as I read about people's experiences with attempting to get their money out of BenefitWallet:

-PrettyCoolWorkshop's report of BenefitWallet bungling his/her trustee-to-trustee transfer (which ended up taking 6 months -viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269173#p4319183 )

-hoppy08520's account of less-than-satisfactory dealings with a BenefitWallet transfer (viewtopic.php?t=241923 )

-BenefitWallet's Better Business Bureau reviews/complaints, which seemed to have a consistent repetition about certain disturbing approaching to doing business, especially when it came to people trying to withdraw their money. (https://www.bbb.org/us/nj/secaucus/prof ... 21-3001128)

Warning: All of the above experiences are a Very Small Sample of all the dealings that BenefitWallet has with customers, so maybe I just got an unrepresentative sample, came to a completely wrong conclusion about BenefitWallet's competence based on Too Small A Sample, and psyched myself out unnecessarily.

However, I, personally, decided I had more control over the process if I requested a checkbook (I suspected that would mostly bypass BenefitWallet employees and be serviced mostly by Bank of New York Mellon, the custodian of the deposit account funds) and wrote a check to be processed as a 60-day rollover. (Again, I thought the processing of the check would probably bypass BenefitWallet employees and be handled by BNY Mellon, since the routing number on the checks is a BNY Mellon routing number.)

Important: It may well turn out that Ant7's and beebog's trustee-to-trustee transfers complete on-time, with no problems. My switch to 60-day rollover may well turn out to be due to my psyching myself out with mistrust of BenefitWallet unnecessarily.

On the other hand, I thought that people might want to hear an account of how a 60-day rollover went, since a 60-day rollover is a completely legitimate method for getting funds to Fidelity.

But I am also quite interested to hear how Ant7's and beebog's trustee-to-trustee transfers go.

Topic Author
cas
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:41 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:30 pm

chessknt wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:22 pm
I'm confused--why can't you use fidelity account transfer form instead for using benefit wallets check?
You can. Ant7 and beebog are trying that trustee-to-trustee transfer method.

I, personally, decided to try the 60-day rollover method, for the reasons I mentioned in the previous post.

Topic Author
cas
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:41 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:36 am

I think my BenefitWallet HSA -> Fidelity HSA transfer is now a done deal:

This morning the HSA funds I sent via check (60-Day rollover transfer method) are listed as available for investing at Fidelity, with the transaction correctly described as "Rollover Cash Check Received."

BenefitWallet shows an image of the cancelled check in Transactions, the Available Balance has been reduced by the proper amount, and the amount is listed under "Distributions." (Categorizing the withdrawal as a regular distribution on the BenefitWallet side is correct, since I used the 60-day rollover transfer method. It would be Very Wrong for a trustee-to-trustee transfer.)


Tying up some loose ends:

Timeline for my 60-day Rollover:

Total Time: 23 total days, 15 business days

-Liquidating Investments at SaveDaily and ACH-ing to BenefitWallet: 13 total days, 10 business days (1/6 - 1/18)
- Ordering and Receiving BenefitWallet checkbook: 11 total days, 8 business days (1/15 - 1/25)
- Mailing and processing of the BenefitWallet check to Fidelity: 3 total days, 1 business day ( (1/26-1/28)

Transfer Method Decision

There are 2 IRS-approved methods to get funds from one HSA custodian to another HSA custodian:

1. trustee-to-trustee transfer (use the Fidelity transfer form for this method). This method is generally considered safer and less error-prone, provided you have competent trustees on both ends. However, I decided that it is an open question whether BenefitWallet is consistently competent in handling their end of a trustee-to-trustee transfer.

2. 60-day rollover. (involves writing a check to the new HSA custodian) This method has more ways for you to shoot yourself in the foot and get in tax woe with the IRS, so don't do it unless you read up on it.

Good starting points for becoming familiar with the 60-day rollover method:
- hoppy08520's excellent post "Tips for closing out BenefitWallet HSA via direct rollover to new HSA" viewtopic.php?t=241923
- the discussion by multiple people in "Reasons to avoid indirect HSA rollover?" viewtopic.php?t=266089 )

Despite the potential risks of the 60-day rollover method, I decided to use this method. I decided that the risk that BenefitWallet (as a company repeatedly reported to do inept and/or shady things) would bungle the execution and tax-reporting of a trustee-to-trustee transfer was greater than the risk that I would bungle the execution and tax-reporting of a 60-day rollover. This was a gut-feel type decision on my part, and I certainly wouldn't argue with anyone who decides that they still think a trustee-to-trustee transfer from BenefitWallet to Fidelity is safer and less error-prone.

Mechanics of Doing a 60-Day Rollover to Fidelity

If someone decides to use the 60-day rollover method, there are several ways you can get the funds into your possession before sending them on to Fidelity. I chose to use a BenefitWallet checkbook check written directly, by me, to Fidelity because:

1. The money would never be in my personal checking account with the 60-day clock ticking. The check would either be accepted or rejected. If the transaction succeeds, the money is happily at Fidelity. If it fails, it is still at BenefitWallet, and the 60 day clock never started.

2. Should something go wrong (e.g. either BenefitWallet or Fidelity flubs the tax forms that they need to send me in early 2020), there is an obvious paper trail of what I intended that I can show to them and/or the IRS. (A check made out to Fidelity with "60 day rollover" and my account # written on it, plus the deposit slip with "60 day rollover" marked on it, plus the image of the cancelled check after it was processed by Fidelity/BenefitWallet)

Specific Fidelity forms to use for a 60-day rollover:

-Fidelity's instructions on how to fill out the check when doing a 60-day rollover: https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/contribute-hsa ("Other Ways to Contribute to Your HSA", Item #5 "Roll over contributions from another HSA"

-A Fidelity deposit slip with the "60-Day Rollover" checkbox marked. https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060 ... t-slip.pdf (Note: this deposit slip has a weirdness - the total deposit amount must end in a 0, e.g. xx,xxx.x0 . This was not a problem for me, since I was leaving a bit behind in the BenefitWallet account anyway, to cover upcoming fees and avoid bouncing the check. You'll have to call Fidelity and ask what to do if you are trying to take your BenefitWallet account to $0 all in one go with a single check.)

Cleanup Tasks

Tasks still to do:

- Let BenefitWallet account activity associated with month-end settle. Since I didn't want the check I sent to Fidelity to bounce, I held back about $15 to cover any possible fees (BenefitWallet monthly + possible SaveDaily monthly + possible checkbook fee) . Since it is now so close to 1/31 (BenefitWallet Fee Day), I'll let that day go past, let the BenefitWallet fee and January interest post, plus see whether my missing Vanguard Total Bond Market dividends show up at SaveDaily.

- Zero out the BenefitWallet account. Once all that activity has settled, I'll write another BenefitWallet check (check #2) for the small amount remaining in my BenefitWallet account and deposit it in my personal checking account. I'll pull one of the not-yet-HSA-reimbursed medical spending receipts I've saved over the years out of the pile and report the check#2 amount as a qualified distribution used for medical purposes on my 2019 tax return (due April 2020).

- Close the BenefitWallet account. Once check #2 has cleared, I'll call BenefitWallet and close the HSA account, so that they don't try to continue to charge me fees on an account with $0 balance.

-2019 Tax Reporting. I'll need to fill out Form 8889 to report the 60-day rollover on my 2019 tax return (due April 2020).

JimB
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:35 pm

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by JimB » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:04 am

I started on Jan 11 by selling my investments at save daily and putting the cash in the Benefit wallet side of the account. Since then it has been a process with Fidelity to get the accounts opened and the electronic transfer started. This took several steps that used the US mail. Today the status was changed from waiting for paperwork to in process with a completion date of Feb. 18. I hope it goes smoothly from this point. I will update with any problems or a successful transfer.

Topic Author
cas
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:41 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:18 am

JimB wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:04 am
I started on Jan 11 by selling my investments at save daily and putting the cash in the Benefit wallet side of the account. Since then it has been a process with Fidelity to get the accounts opened and the electronic transfer started. This took several steps that used the US mail. Today the status was changed from waiting for paperwork to in process with a completion date of Feb. 18. I hope it goes smoothly from this point. I will update with any problems or a successful transfer.
Thanks for the update, JimB! I was wondering what had happened with you - you had been updating regularly, then hit the problems with opening the Fidelity account online, and there had been silence ever since.

So now we have a 3rd person who is in-process with a BenefitWallet->Fidelity HSA trustee-to-trustee transfer. Please do let us know how it goes.

According to Ant7, a preliminary hint that something is happening on the BenefitWallet side is that your BenefitWallet main online page should switch from showing a status of "Open" to "Closed" about the time that Fidelity updates their status to showing an estimated completion date. Ant7's post (with screenshot showing where to look for the Open/Closed) is here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269173#p4337256

beebog
Posts: 34
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by beebog » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:20 pm

cas wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:18 am
JimB wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:04 am
I started on Jan 11 by selling my investments at save daily and putting the cash in the Benefit wallet side of the account. Since then it has been a process with Fidelity to get the accounts opened and the electronic transfer started. This took several steps that used the US mail. Today the status was changed from waiting for paperwork to in process with a completion date of Feb. 18. I hope it goes smoothly from this point. I will update with any problems or a successful transfer.
Thanks for the update, JimB! I was wondering what had happened with you - you had been updating regularly, then hit the problems with opening the Fidelity account online, and there had been silence ever since.

So now we have a 3rd person who is in-process with a BenefitWallet->Fidelity HSA trustee-to-trustee transfer. Please do let us know how it goes.

According to Ant7, a preliminary hint that something is happening on the BenefitWallet side is that your BenefitWallet main online page should switch from showing a status of "Open" to "Closed" about the time that Fidelity updates their status to showing an estimated completion date. Ant7's post (with screenshot showing where to look for the Open/Closed) is here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269173#p4337256
I think mine might be wrapping up soon. Last update I got from Fidelity was on 01/16/19: "Fidelity has finished processing your transfer request, and has sent it to Benefit Wallet for review." My account on the Benefit Wallet side has said it was "closed" for a while now. Today the balance dropped to $0 and I am seeing a $25 Check Dispursement Fee and the HSA Check Dispursement for the rest in my transactions. Nothing has changed yet on the Fidelity side, but I imagine I should see that in the next few days.

I think cas's method is probably quicker than what I've seen with trustee-to-trustee.

JimB
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:35 pm

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by JimB » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:09 pm

JimB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:04 am
I started on Jan 11 by selling my investments at save daily and putting the cash in the Benefit wallet side of the account. Since then it has been a process with Fidelity to get the accounts opened and the electronic transfer started. This took several steps that used the US mail. Today the status was changed from waiting for paperwork to in process with a completion date of Feb. 18. I hope it goes smoothly from this point. I will update with any problems or a successful transfer.
Today, 2 days after Fidelity received my paperwork, the BenefitWallet status shows Closed with the full balance still showing.

The biggest delay was because of sending paperwork to Fidelity. Previously, I only had a 401(k) at Fidelity. I could not open any accounts online. I used paper forms to open a brokerage account and fund it with a check. Then I was able to open the HSA online but when I tried to initiate the transfer it told me I had to print and mail in the forms. I did not use overnight mail and the post office was not incredibly fast.

Topic Author
cas
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:41 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:30 am

Good luck to those readers who may be thinking of transferring from BenefitWallet to Fidelity in February.

Reminder: according to our best crowd-sourced, reverse-engineered hypothesis on how the SaveDaily platform works, the SaveDaily ban on liquidating 100% of investments will
- reappear on Tuesday, February 5 (SaveDaily Fee Day)
- will likely remain in place until somewhere between February 11 and February 15.

That means that you either need to place your SaveDaily sell orders by 2pm eastern on Monday, February 4 or wait a couple of weeks.

In theory, at least. Reality may not be so kind:

Yesterday (Friday, February 1), I attempted to check whether my missing partial month accrued dividends had perhaps been posted at month-end (for the Vanguard Total Bond I sold on SaveDaily in mid-January). (If they had posted, I would need to try to yank them off of SaveDaily before Fee Day hit.)

SaveDaily was inaccessible* from (at least) 6am eastern until somewhere between 12:30pm and 1:30pm eastern. (Meanwhile, their trading deadline is 2pm eastern.) No dividend had posted when I was finally able to get in.

I attempted to check again this morning. SaveDaily was again inaccessible*.

My experience is that, since it is a Saturday, it will stay inaccessible until around noon eastern on Monday (presumably because an employee in California shows up to work around 9am pacific, discovers the server is crashed, and reboots it.)

Unless, by chance, this is a scheduled downtime, rather than an unplanned crash. I suppose I could be wildly optimistic and dream that the new SaveDaily CEO
- has assigned someone to be a Social Media Spy (In a small FinTech company my husband once worked for, there was someone with that literal job title.)
- has gotten irate about the SaveDaily ineptitude reported in this thread
- assigned employees to be busy at work on a weekend installing software fixes.

*SaveDaily inaccessible = click the "Manage Investments" button on the BenefitWallet website and get an error message that says "An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator."

Ant7
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:23 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by Ant7 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:00 pm

beebog wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:20 pm
cas wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:18 am
JimB wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:04 am
I started on Jan 11 by selling my investments at save daily and putting the cash in the Benefit wallet side of the account. Since then it has been a process with Fidelity to get the accounts opened and the electronic transfer started. This took several steps that used the US mail. Today the status was changed from waiting for paperwork to in process with a completion date of Feb. 18. I hope it goes smoothly from this point. I will update with any problems or a successful transfer.
Thanks for the update, JimB! I was wondering what had happened with you - you had been updating regularly, then hit the problems with opening the Fidelity account online, and there had been silence ever since.

So now we have a 3rd person who is in-process with a BenefitWallet->Fidelity HSA trustee-to-trustee transfer. Please do let us know how it goes.

According to Ant7, a preliminary hint that something is happening on the BenefitWallet side is that your BenefitWallet main online page should switch from showing a status of "Open" to "Closed" about the time that Fidelity updates their status to showing an estimated completion date. Ant7's post (with screenshot showing where to look for the Open/Closed) is here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269173#p4337256
I think mine might be wrapping up soon. Last update I got from Fidelity was on 01/16/19: "Fidelity has finished processing your transfer request, and has sent it to Benefit Wallet for review." My account on the Benefit Wallet side has said it was "closed" for a while now. Today the balance dropped to $0 and I am seeing a $25 Check Dispursement Fee and the HSA Check Dispursement for the rest in my transactions. Nothing has changed yet on the Fidelity side, but I imagine I should see that in the next few days.

I think cas's method is probably quicker than what I've seen with trustee-to-trustee.

Here is my update:

It seem as I am 1 day behind beebog. As of 2/4/2019 there are no changes in Fidility account. Last update on transfer page is from 01/17/19: "Fidelity has finished processing your transfer request, and has sent it to Benefit Wallet for review."

Fidelity lists the following on Transfer status page: Estimated Completion Date: 2/5/2019


My BenefitWallet balance is now 0 and below are the 2 transactions associated with trustee-to-trustee transfer. It seems as everything is going smoothly but very slowly. Even though my balance is 0 and account is shown as "closed" I can still access both platforms: Savedaily and benefitwallet.

Date | Type | Description | Withdrawal | Deposit | Tax Year
01/31/2019 | FEE | CHECK DISBURSEMENT FEE 04 | $25.00 | | 2019
01/31/2019 | CHECK ISSUED | HSA CHECK DISBURSEMENT | $XX,XXX.XX | | 2019


Will update once I see the balance change on Fidelity side.

beebog
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:51 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by beebog » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:10 pm

Ant7 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:00 pm
Here is my update:

It seem as I am 1 day behind beebog. As of 2/4/2019 there are no changes in Fidility account. Last update on transfer page is from 01/17/19: "Fidelity has finished processing your transfer request, and has sent it to Benefit Wallet for review."

Fidelity lists the following on Transfer status page: Estimated Completion Date: 2/5/2019


My BenefitWallet balance is now 0 and below are the 2 transactions associated with trustee-to-trustee transfer. It seems as everything is going smoothly but very slowly. Even though my balance is 0 and account is shown as "closed" I can still access both platforms: Savedaily and benefitwallet.


01/31/2019 FEE CHECK DISBURSEMENT FEE 04 $25.00 2019
01/31/2019 CHECK ISSUED HSA CHECK DISBURSEMENT $XX,XXX.XX 2019


Will update once I see the balance change on Fidelity side.
My transfer tracker at Fidelity still shows in progress, but the funds appeared in my account today and even though they are still in progress, they are counted toward my "Cash Available to Trade" in my HSA and I was able to place a purchase order today to at least get it in a money market while I figure out exactly how I am going to invest. So you should hopefully have your money tomorrow. Mine showed up exactly on the date that they had listed as my estimated completion date.

lukestuckenhymer
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:53 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by lukestuckenhymer » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:35 pm

cas wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:30 am
Yesterday (Friday, February 1), I attempted to check whether my missing partial month accrued dividends had perhaps been posted at month-end (for the Vanguard Total Bond I sold on SaveDaily in mid-January). (If they had posted, I would need to try to yank them off of SaveDaily before Fee Day hit.)

SaveDaily was inaccessible* from (at least) 6am eastern until somewhere between 12:30pm and 1:30pm eastern. (Meanwhile, their trading deadline is 2pm eastern.) No dividend had posted when I was finally able to get in.

I attempted to check again this morning. SaveDaily was again inaccessible*.

My experience is that, since it is a Saturday, it will stay inaccessible until around noon eastern on Monday (presumably because an employee in California shows up to work around 9am pacific, discovers the server is crashed, and reboots it.)
I tried to check my month end balance on 1/31 and SaveDaily was down. Four days later, it's still down. Laughable. I tried sending customer support messages with no reply as usual.

Edit: After initially getting a "Service Unavailable" message, I tried again and it seems to work now :confused

Ant7
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:23 am

Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by Ant7 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:59 pm

So here is my last update:

I have initiated trustee to trustee transfer on 1.11.2019(printed and mailed the form to Fidelity) and it was completed today - 2.5.2019 exactly on the day Fidelity was estimating. THe balance has changed somewhere after 4PM and I was able to place the order for FZROX which will execute at tomorrow's price.

Overall I lost $25 for transfer fees and about $1100 due to funds being out of market :( I knoew this could happen but there is nothing I could do since I am 100% in Stock

brennok
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by brennok » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:25 pm

How long before Fidelity shows the paperwork received? I mailed two forms to Fidelity on the same day. One was received and processed the 31st meanwhile the HSA paperwork still shows it hasnt been received.

Topic Author
cas
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:13 am

Beebog and Ant7 - Thanks for keeping us updated on your trustee-to-trustee transfers.

Your timelines were so similar that it seems that Fidelity and BenefitWallet have probably worked out some sort of repeatable process to use for trustee-to-trustee transfers. I'm sure there are some lurkers out there who will now initiate their own trustee-to-trustee transfers with less apprehension than they would have without your examples.

And, Ant7, I suspect your expensive story about being (unavoidably) out of the market during the transfer will inspire some lurkers to put some extra time into thinking about whether they can avoid a similar situation. That, sadly, isn't much use for your finances, but you might have helped someone else's finances. Thanks.

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cas
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:16 am

brennok wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:25 pm
How long before Fidelity shows the paperwork received? I mailed two forms to Fidelity on the same day. One was received and processed the 31st meanwhile the HSA paperwork still shows it hasnt been received.
Ant7, beebog, and JimB would know better than I, but I have a vague memory of reading similar questions in the current Fidelity HSA megathread (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=263661). And I have a vague memory that people who called Fidelity to check on whether their form had been received were told that it had been received, but that the status on the Fidelity website would never show anything like "Form Received/Processed" ... it would take a few days (a week?) then update with the expected completion date. But I might be mis-remembering.

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cas
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:39 am

Update on my missing partial month Vanguard Total Bond dividends (situation described earlier in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269173#p4326119):

The partial-month accrued dividends for VTBLX never did show up in my SaveDaily account. Even if they weren't paid out until the end of January, they should have shown up at SaveDaily by now, so I'm assuming I'm never going to get them.

Earlier in this thread, lstone19 reported similarly missing dividends with Alliant HSA/SaveDaily, but did receive the dividends with the HSA Bank/TDA combination.*** So the lesson seems to be to expect any partial month dividends to disappear if you liquidate a "declare daily/pay monthly" mutual fund on SaveDaily.

I have no idea whether forfeiting of partial month dividends is legal under HSA regulations or whether it is a sign of incompetence or fraud on SaveDaily's part. (The account agreement document provided by SaveDaily is silent on the issue.)

Regardless, the way to minimize the issue is to redeem any "declare daily/pay monthly" mutual fund (money market funds, bond funds) early in the month so that minimal unpaid dividends have accrued.


***lstone's experience (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269173#p4326162)
In late 2017, I briefly had my HSA at Alliant (within a month of moving it there, they announced they were getting out of the HSA business). When I sold the investments at SaveDaily (in a declare daily, pay monthly bond fund), I never received the partial month dividend.

Last month, when I started shutting down my HSAbank HSA to move it to Fidelity, dividends on the declare daily, pay monthly bond fund I had it in at TDA were paid on 12/31 (with delayed posting until 1/2). At that point, the HSAbank cash account was still open so I could transfer the dividends.

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cas
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by cas » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:55 am

cas wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:16 am
brennok wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:25 pm
How long before Fidelity shows the paperwork received? I mailed two forms to Fidelity on the same day. One was received and processed the 31st meanwhile the HSA paperwork still shows it hasnt been received.
I have a vague memory of reading similar questions in the current Fidelity HSA megathread (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=263661).
I found at least one of the discussions I was vaguely remembering. (There may be more of them hiding in that long thread): viewtopic.php?f=10&t=263661&start=550#p4235960

General gist (from poster bOB):
I tried asking them [Fidelity]. Basically there can be a 3-6 days between them receiving it [the paperwork requesting HSA transfer] and it actually getting scanned into the system and acknowledged. I don't care about overall transfer processing times. I just don't like that they won't acknowledge receipt when they actually receive it, but make you wait an extra week to be reassured that your physical paper forms with SS# etc haven't gone missing or fallen into the wrong hands.

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Tycoon
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by Tycoon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:51 am

After reading this thread I decided to move my HSA funds from BenefitWallet. I'm a retiree now so I have time to venture off into the wild. Fully anticipating issues I wrote to BenefitWallet asking how to directly rollover my funds via a trustee to trustee rollover. I got a response the next day that included a form (HSA Trustee Rollover Form) that I needed to fill out, get notorized, and then sent back to BNY Mellon (BenefitWallet). On the 18th of Jan. I mailed the completed form.

This morning all but $10 of my BenefitWallet HSA funds showed up in my Fidelity account. I promptly moved the funds to a fund that will keep me up at night because now that I'm retired I need things to worry about.

Easy peazy lemon squeezy.

Next up, my 401k pre and after tax funds rollover.
“To know what you know and what you do not know, that is true knowledge.” Confucius

beebog
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by beebog » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:57 am

brennok wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:25 pm
How long before Fidelity shows the paperwork received? I mailed two forms to Fidelity on the same day. One was received and processed the 31st meanwhile the HSA paperwork still shows it hasnt been received.
I didn't document it, but I believe it was a week and a half after I sent that it showed up in the tracker. I've seen some speculation that HSAs are handled by the NetBenefit side of Fidelity, so that may explain the discrepancy between the two sets of paperwork you sent.

JimB
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by JimB » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:18 pm

Here is the final update. The funds got to Fidelity yesterday Feb. 15 (minus the $25 fee). I was able to put in an order to buy funds today. I had no problems but, it took a very long time to complete the process. It seems that BenefitWallet marked my account as closed very quickly then just sat on it for a couple of weeks.
JimB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:04 am
I started on Jan 11 by selling my investments at save daily and putting the cash in the Benefit wallet side of the account. Since then it has been a process with Fidelity to get the accounts opened and the electronic transfer started. This took several steps that used the US mail. Today the status was changed from waiting for paperwork to in process with a completion date of Feb. 18. I hope it goes smoothly from this point. I will update with any problems or a successful transfer.

brennok
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by brennok » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:20 pm

Mine was luckily much quicker, but still took a month. Fidelity now has my funds.

I need to reach out to Benefitwallet to close the account now I guess.

nfs
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by nfs » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:54 pm

This whole thread seems terrifying to me since husband's HSA is through BenefitWallet and we're just about at the point where we want to start investing a portion of it. Hoping those of you who now have this experience can give your opinion about what we should do when we're ready to invest it since it sounds like we may want to do that elsewhere...

Note that DH is still actively contributing to the BenefitWallet HSA through his employer and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
  • In general, do you think it would make sense for us to move the portion of the HSA we want to invest to another HSA custodian?
  • After the initial transfer, how often would/could you transfer contributions out of BenefitWallet?
  • Are there companies other than Fidelity that offer good HSA investment options that we may want to consider?
Thanks for any words of wisdom!

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hoppy08520
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by hoppy08520 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:11 am

nfs wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:54 pm
This whole thread seems terrifying to me since husband's HSA is through BenefitWallet and we're just about at the point where we want to start investing a portion of it. Hoping those of you who now have this experience can give your opinion about what we should do when we're ready to invest it since it sounds like we may want to do that elsewhere...

Note that DH is still actively contributing to the BenefitWallet HSA through his employer and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
  • In general, do you think it would make sense for us to move the portion of the HSA we want to invest to another HSA custodian?
  • After the initial transfer, how often would/could you transfer contributions out of BenefitWallet?
  • Are there companies other than Fidelity that offer good HSA investment options that we may want to consider?
Thanks for any words of wisdom!
If you really want to know the answer, you might almost have to model out a 12-month cycle in a spreadsheet where you compare and contrast 2 or 3 scenarios:

Scenario A: BenefitWallet only - invest in BenefitWallet, don't open a Fidelity HSA, keep the minimum in cash to avoid a low-balance fee in the savings portion. The low-balance fees can vary from one plan to the next, depending on the terms negotiated by the employer. Some people might have fees waived with a $5,000 balance, or maybe $3,000.

Scenario B: Same as A, but invest as much as you can (typically anything above the minimum $1,000 required in the savings account) and eat the low-balance fees under the assumption that the cash drag penalty from the ultra-low-interest savings account is worse than investing but paying the low-balance fees.

Scenario C: open a Fidelity HSA and every 12 months, do a rollover from BenefitWallet to Fidelity. Don't invest at all in BenefitWallet. Pro: avoid the BenefitWallet fees. Cons: cash drag penalty of sitting in cash.

When I pondered this same question, I found that scenarios A, B and C are almost identical, with the best option and worst option separated by only around $20. So your decision is really more about whether you'd prefer to invest in Fidelity or BenefitWallet. Also if you use the HSA frequently for reimbursements, which works better for you.

I would consider doing option C. Open a Fidelity HSA, and every 12 months do a rollover from BenefitWallet to Fidelity. You'll save yourself $34.80 annually in investment fees ($2.90/month * 12 months), and by keeping a higher cash balance for at least parts of the year in the BenefitWallet savings account, you might avoid some of the low-balance fees. Then, every 12 months, you rollover all but $1 to Fidelity, and invest as you would like in Fidelity. You'll pay a slight cash drag penalty but that is going to be offset partially by not paying the investment fees and some of the low-balance fees. Once you do the rollover once, you'll know how it works for the next year and it should be easier to do the paperwork and additional tax forms. There are no rollover fees at BenefitWallet, but you are allowed by the US tax code to do this only once every 12 calendar months. Depending on your BenefitWallet fee schedule, you might want to leave behind enough in your HSA to avoid the low-balance fees; for example, if you need $1,000 to avoid the fees then you might rollover all but $1,000 so that you can avoid the fees for the couple of months it takes to get back up over $1,000.

chessknt
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by chessknt » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:33 am

I did the direct transfer through fidelity and ate the $25 check disbursement fee assessed by benefitwallet. I was careful to liquidate my savedaily position mid month to avoid the fee and immediately transferred it. Whole process took one month.

LPSpecial
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Re: BenefitWallet HSA - anyone successfully liquidated 100% of investments? (update: also transfer/rollover issues)

Post by LPSpecial » Wed May 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Hello,
I have my BenefitWallet HSA account all in checking and I have set up my Fidelity HSA account and started the trustee to trustee transfer process. I have the transfer paperwork ready to mail to Fidelity. The one question I have is regarding the Medallion signature guarantee stamp; is it required by BenefitWallet or did you just sign and date the paperwork and send it in to Fidelity without it? Fidelity's paperwork says that I should call the other financial institution to find out. Please let me know how you handled it. I thought I'd ask here before I spent the time calling them. Thank you for your thoughts.
Sincerely,

LPSpecial :happy

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