Police and Troopers fund.

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Dottie57
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Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Dottie57 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:02 pm

I keep getting calls for donations to a Police and Troopers fund. I said no and hung up.

How do others handle these types of calls whose wording is designed to generate guilt. On my part, I’ve looked up salary, starting point for pension and pension. Salary is ok, the other two pieces are generous.

****************************Thanks to all who answered************************

Resolution is to purchase a phone system to allow me to block unwanted numbers.

Thanks again.
Last edited by Dottie57 on Wed May 15, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rj342
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by rj342 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:05 pm

"No thanks, we only donate through our church." <click>

Cut 'em off, don't wait for their full spiel, hang up as soon as you say your piece.

Not exactly rude, but don't let them try to take advantage of your normal good manners.

bampf
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by bampf » Tue May 14, 2019 12:07 pm

I never never never answer the phone anymore unless I know the person calling. Even then, generally if it is important they can leave a vm. The phone has become the worst form of interruption and scamming. Even something as simple as answering the phone by saying "Yes this is bampf" can be recorded and parsed to have you verbally agreeing to something (Just the yes is enough). Never never never answer the phone unless I know the person calling. Ever. Never. Really. Really. If they persist and don't leave a message I block them. <Clearly on a mobile device for everything. Except I do have two landlines. The ringers are turned off and they are outbound only>.

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Tue May 14, 2019 12:07 pm

Never to anyone who cold calls me. Say no, hang up.

If it sounds like it has potential, I might look them up on Charity Navigator.

There is a group here that does not do cold calls that helps the families of first responders killed in the line of duty. I'm sad to say I learned through a friend that they do good work.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by ResearchMed » Tue May 14, 2019 12:08 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:02 pm
I keep getting calls for donations to a Police and Troopers fund. I said no and hung up.

How do others handle these types of calls whose wording is designed to generate guilt. On my part, I’ve looked up salary, starting point for pension and pension. Salary is ok, the other two pieces are generous.
Yup, some of them try to evoke guilt, and sometimes veer into vaguely threatening ("we'd really like to be able to continue to protect you..." or similar).

I called the local PD after one of the worst, and... found out that these calls are NOT actually benefiting the PD, and the PD has nothing at all to do with them.

I'm sure the local PD would be happy to suggest a useful related charitable fund if you want to support them.

RM
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Summit111
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Summit111 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:12 pm

I always ask the rank of the policeman or state trooper making the call. They always answer, I am not a policeman or a state trooper. Then I asked them how much money exactly goes to the fundraiser for expenses, and how much money goes to the actual benefit of law-enforcement. Whatever BS answer they give, I always hang up.

Summit
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prudent
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by prudent » Tue May 14, 2019 12:14 pm

I am all for supporting first responders of all kinds but only directly; i.e. to my township fire/police/EMS. There are dozens if not hundreds of nice-sounding fundraisers which skim off 90% of the donations and many of them are of the police/fire and disease research variety. In the last couple of weeks we've gotten at least 5 calls from different solicitors all claiming to be collecting for our "local police" or "fallen firefighters' survivors" or the like.

A good rule is never, ever make donations on the phone and decline if they offer to send you an envelope for your use in returning a donation. These are professional fundraisers and their feelings won't be hurt if you simply hang up.

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Dottie57
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Dottie57 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:18 pm

prudent wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:14 pm
I am all for supporting first responders of all kinds but only directly; i.e. to my township fire/police/EMS. There are dozens if not hundreds of nice-sounding fundraisers which skim off 90% of the donations and many of them are of the police/fire and disease research variety. In the last couple of weeks we've gotten at least 5 calls from different solicitors all claiming to be collecting for our "local police" or "fallen firefighters' survivors" or the like.

A good rule is never, ever make donations on the phone and decline if they offer to send you an envelope for your use in returning a donation. These are professional fundraisers and their feelings won't be hurt if you simply hang up.
I will stop listening. I stopped responding after one guy got mad at me and kept calling - he actually sounded angry.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 14, 2019 12:24 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:18 pm
prudent wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:14 pm
I am all for supporting first responders of all kinds but only directly; i.e. to my township fire/police/EMS. There are dozens if not hundreds of nice-sounding fundraisers which skim off 90% of the donations and many of them are of the police/fire and disease research variety. In the last couple of weeks we've gotten at least 5 calls from different solicitors all claiming to be collecting for our "local police" or "fallen firefighters' survivors" or the like.

A good rule is never, ever make donations on the phone and decline if they offer to send you an envelope for your use in returning a donation. These are professional fundraisers and their feelings won't be hurt if you simply hang up.
I will stop listening. I stopped responding after one guy got mad at me and kept calling - he actually sounded angry.
Dottie -

DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE. Let it go to voicemail. If they hear a voice, they mark the number "live". If they hear an old person's voice, they mark it "live meat". NEVER INTERACT WITH THEM. DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE FOR ANY UNKNOWN NUMBERS.

Also, if you know a young male person, have them record your voicemail message. Hearing an elderly voice on the voicemail is also good for repeat calls. Hearing a deep male voice say "this is 555-555-1212, we can't answer your call, please leave a message at the tone" is much better. :beer
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Tue May 14, 2019 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dm200
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by dm200 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:24 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:02 pm
I keep getting calls for donations to a Police and Troopers fund. I said no and hung up.
How do others handle these types of calls whose wording is designed to generate guilt. On my part, I’ve looked up salary, starting point for pension and pension. Salary is ok, the other two pieces are generous.
Years ago, when I receive such a solicitation for police, fire department, etc, I would ask "Are you a police officer, fire department employee, etc." In 100% of the calls, the answer was that they were not.They would then, reluctantly, admit they were with a fundraising company engaged or authorized by the Police, Fire, etc. Then, I would say something like, "Well, if the members of that organization are not willing/able to make their own calls, I am not willing to contribute. Goodbye!"

Now, when I get such calls, I just say "Sorry" and hang up.

it is my understanding and belief that these companies actively market to and solicit Police/fire, etc. organizations to fundraise using the Police/fire/etc. organization and then, the organization gets a small cut of the proceeds.

These "telemarketers" are not really the ones "guilty" of this, in my opinion, misleading practice. Therefore, I do not believe in any kind of nastiness or hostility to these folks just trying to earn a living. Cussing them out accomplishes nothing, in my opinion. That's why I just say, "Sorry" and hang up. These calls for all sorts of things are getting worse - now I am getting such calls on my cell phone.

I just gone one this morning from a guy who said he was calling because my car warranty was expiring and he wanted to sell me another one. THEN, wanted me to identify my car?? "Thank you, sorry and goodbye"

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dm200
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by dm200 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:26 pm

DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE. Let it go to voicemail. If they hear a voice, they mark the number "live". If they hear an old person's voice, they mark it "live meat". NEVER INTERACT WITH THEM. DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE FOR ANY UNKNOWN NUMBERS.
This is what my wife does. However, from time to time I get calls with an out of area phone number -- BUT is someone I know who kept their cell phone number from where they used to live.

Jeff Albertson
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Jeff Albertson » Tue May 14, 2019 12:28 pm

Advice from the Federal Trade Commission:
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... refighters

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dm200
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by dm200 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:29 pm

Or you could do something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6a-CZMrVAg

GmanJeff
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by GmanJeff » Tue May 14, 2019 12:32 pm

This doesn't sound like a legitimate charity. Charity Navigator, mentioned by others, can help you distinguish wheat from chaff when it comes to charities of all types.

A legitimate charity which functions in the law enforcement space is Concerns of Police Survivors (COPS): https://www.concernsofpolicesurvivors.org/aboutcops

Note that the needs law enforcement-related charities address are completely unrelated to the evaluation criteria the OP used of salary and pension benefits, which themselves vary widely across jurisdictions and agency size. Law enforcement-related charities do not exist to routinely supplement salaries or pensions but instead usually focus on meeting the needs of law enforcement officers (LEOs) and/or their families following line of duty deaths, career-ending injuries, serious disease which prevents them from continuing to serve, or extraordinary circumstance which created a need the average Officer, Deputy, Trooper, or Agent may not be able to address unaided. Sometimes such charities help children of LEOs with scholarship funding for higher education.

Individual agencies often have charitable entities associated with them to specifically support that agency's employees and retirees. An example is the Former Agents of the FBI Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit affiliate of the Society of Former Special Agents of the FBI. Some foundations for local agencies support retired K-9s, engage in activities to strengthen agency-community ties, and provide other types of support for the agency and staff.
Last edited by GmanJeff on Tue May 14, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by oldcomputerguy » Tue May 14, 2019 12:38 pm

I have a list of about 20 "whitelisted" phone numbers (including DW, family, friends, doctors' offices, etc) from which I will accept a phone call. I have those entered into the configuration on my home AT&T landline phone. All other calls are rejected by AT&T.
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:39 pm

Our land line doesn't have a phone or even answering machine hooked up, so there's no calls. If someone gets to my cell phone, as soon as I realize it's some crook looking to scam me, I put the phone down, left on. It wastes their time while they speel and before they realize nobody's listening.
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Steelersfan
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Steelersfan » Tue May 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Most of the donations to these organizations go toward administrative expenses, i.e. salaries for the people running the "non-profits". What's left over goes to lobby politicians. Little if any gets to actual pubic safety organizations.

mrmass
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by mrmass » Tue May 14, 2019 12:42 pm

We don't answer the phone and reset the phones recorder to the default robotic voice. Once you answer the phone or donate, I think they pass your number around as a "giver" or "listener"

Nicolas
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Nicolas » Tue May 14, 2019 12:49 pm

Anything to do with veterans is a big moneymaker. After all, who can refuse them? We were getting pitches for paralyzed veterans, blind veterans, PTSD veterans, wounded veterans, lonely veterans, anything veterans!
Last edited by Nicolas on Wed May 15, 2019 11:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

likegarden
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by likegarden » Tue May 14, 2019 12:50 pm

Simply do not pick up the phone when you do not know the phone number and caller. We got calls from those organizations located 300 miles away. We support locals, but not 300 miles away.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 14, 2019 12:51 pm

dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:26 pm
DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE. Let it go to voicemail. If they hear a voice, they mark the number "live". If they hear an old person's voice, they mark it "live meat". NEVER INTERACT WITH THEM. DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE FOR ANY UNKNOWN NUMBERS.
This is what my wife does. However, from time to time I get calls with an out of area phone number -- BUT is someone I know who kept their cell phone number from where they used to live.
Let voicemail handle it. Call them back. :shock:

You gotta love people who insist on answering the call, and saying "no thank you". Again, this marks you as FRESH MEAT and your number is sold over and over, with the note "old person".
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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SevenBridgesRoad
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by SevenBridgesRoad » Tue May 14, 2019 12:54 pm

bampf wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:07 pm
I never never never answer the phone anymore unless I know the person calling. Even then, generally if it is important they can leave a vm.
Do this.
I can’t believe people still blindly answer their phone.
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greg24
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by greg24 » Tue May 14, 2019 1:06 pm

If I answer a phone and someone begging for money is on the other end, I just hang up.

TravelGeek
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by TravelGeek » Tue May 14, 2019 1:11 pm

SevenBridgesRoad wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:54 pm
bampf wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:07 pm
I never never never answer the phone anymore unless I know the person calling. Even then, generally if it is important they can leave a vm.
Do this.
I can’t believe people still blindly answer their phone.
It really depends. It's pretty easy to tell what are likely spam numbers and what aren't. I have a cell number with a "remote" area code. Most calls that (pretend to) originate from that area are spammers -- my old friends/colleagues are in my address book and thus get identified. Numbers with the local area code here are generally not spammers; they could be businesses that I just don't have in my phone's address book (the handyman responding to my email, the car mechanic telling me the car is ready, ...). 800 numbers could be anything. I don't get many charity calls at all. I sometimes get a call from an airline telling me that a schedule change has occurred. Some of those are identified automatically by Google/Android even if they are not in my phone book.

One thing I don't do is jump up and run to the phone when it rings (or beeps... SMS) unless I am actively expecting a call/message (in which case I probably have the phone next to me). Calls/messages are generally not more important to me than what I am currently doing.
greg24 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:06 pm
If I answer a phone and someone begging for money is on the other end, I just hang up.
Either that or as someone else said, I "put them on hold" and keep doing what I was doing...

bob60014
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by bob60014 » Tue May 14, 2019 1:29 pm

I retired from law enforcement and whenever we were asked by citizens who wanted to help those in public safety and specifically about donations to these types of outfits, we would always respond "your TAXES support us"! That usually was met with a " :oops: " ;)
Last edited by bob60014 on Tue May 14, 2019 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fintechnick
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Fintechnick » Tue May 14, 2019 1:31 pm

If it’s a legit charity, the magic words are “Please put me on your Do Not Call list.” Any legit fund raising operation that hears these words from you, will know that you mean business (because if they don’t, they are exposing themselves to very expensive lawsuits). However, they will take anything else as an excuse to call later. If you say “I can’t talk now” they will interpret that to mean call later. If you say “I can’t afford to make a contribution right now” they will interpret that to mean you might be able to afford it later. Etc. So be very firm. “Please put me on your do not call list.”

If it’s not a legit charity (e.g., an offshore scam) then they won’t care about that. Simply block their number from your phone.

bampf
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by bampf » Tue May 14, 2019 1:36 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:11 pm
Either that or as someone else said, I "put them on hold" and keep doing what I was doing...
I actually think this is kind of an ineffective tactic. These are shops that are trying to monetize gullibility. If you do this, you are opening the door "to maybe something can happen, save this number". If I were to rank the monetization of your phone number I might go about it in the following manner:

1. No answer, No voice mail with exploitable details (Names of people in the family, Dogs or cats etc). $1 not worthless but low yield.
2. No answer, VM with exploitable details. $2
3. No answer, vm with lots of exploitable details..$4
4. Answer, quickly hang up: $6
5. Answer and engage in conversation of some sort (Polite, no thanks, we give at the church, hey let me get right back to you etc...).. $10
6. Answer, be a vulnerable member of the population (old, confused etc...) $20

To be clear, I am just engaging in a thought exercise. I have no idea if this is accurate but, I am generally distrustful of people I don't know and I have great capability to imagine the worst.

The thing is, in social hacking, which is what they are doing, any detail can have value. Name of the family pet? Check! Lets see if we can match the phone number to a name.. Cool. Now, lets see if I have any details on the kinds of accounts they may have... Yep. Try combos of login with family pet name. Bingo! Or, sell the details of the call to one of the big data farms out there and they can target you. The more you engage with them, the more you risk disclosing a detail. Not saying it isn't fun to mess with them. Not saying that you shouldn't even do it, just be aware of the risks. Supposing you piss someone off enough that they target you cause, you know, they can. They can swat you (harder now). They can distribute your number to hundreds of bots and your phone rings non stop.

Lot of words to say it is a low value high risk endeavor to engage in any form or fashion. I am half suspicious that these folks that are teaching you how to "own" the spammers/hackers/grifters are doing it so more people engage in the behavior of "stringing" them along which allows them to glean more details. Of course some of them are just dumb as rocks as well and are not anywhere near that sophisticated. Either way, low ROI to engage. Huge risk.

I revert back to simple. Never answer the call unless you know the number. Even businesses that call me because of my initiation generally go to vm and I call them back. Don't trust area codes. Don't trust people that call me. Don't do business on the phone that I don't initiate.

Be safe out there.

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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by DesertDiva » Tue May 14, 2019 1:43 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:02 pm
I keep getting calls for donations to a Police and Troopers fund. I said no and hung up.

How do others handle these types of calls whose wording is designed to generate guilt. On my part, I’ve looked up salary, starting point for pension and pension. Salary is ok, the other two pieces are generous.
You aren't obligated to donate and you don't need to provide a reason for declining to donate.

Silence Dogood
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Silence Dogood » Tue May 14, 2019 1:47 pm

If I get a call, and I don't recognize the number, I let it go to voicemail.

If I get a call, and I do recognize the number, I still let it go to voicemail.

yohac
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by yohac » Tue May 14, 2019 2:07 pm

Always good to hand them off to Lenny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoOrlh5i1k

aj44
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by aj44 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:12 pm

I have fun with the people calling and say increasingly crazy things until they realize I have wasted their time and they hang up on me.

Juvenile I know but it’s fun.

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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Godot » Tue May 14, 2019 2:19 pm

Silence Dogood wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:47 pm
If I get a call, and I don't recognize the number, I let it go to voicemail.

If I get a call, and I do recognize the number, I still let it go to voicemail.
Do you ever check your voicemail?
“There is man in his entirety, blaming his shoe when his foot is guilty.” ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

Silence Dogood
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Silence Dogood » Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm

Godot wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:19 pm
Silence Dogood wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:47 pm
If I get a call, and I don't recognize the number, I let it go to voicemail.

If I get a call, and I do recognize the number, I still let it go to voicemail.
Do you ever check your voicemail?
Of course not, I'm a millennial. :wink:

iamlucky13
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by iamlucky13 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:24 pm

Please do NOT feel guilty. Legitimate charities understand cold calling results in a low rate of donations, and as long as you aren't rude, it shouldn't bother them.

But as others have indicated, a lot (probably most) of these calls are not legitimate - the FTC even has a webpage specifically on the topic of solicitations for police and other emergency responders:

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... refighters

When I receive these calls, I tell them in a neutral tone this is not a number that accepts unsolicited calls.

Not answering is not really an option on my work phone, but I do generally only answer unidentified numbers if they are local.

It's easier to filter on my personal phone, but there is still fairly frequently personal business (eg, contractors, auto shop) where I may receive a call from a number I don't have caller ID for. In one instance I almost ignored a call back about a job application for a position where they wanted to make a decision very quickly (short term contract position, but a good opportunity to get a foot in the door). It was near the end of the day, and the wait until the next business day could legitimately have been to my detriment.

jdb
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by jdb » Tue May 14, 2019 2:32 pm

GmanJeff wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:32 pm
This doesn't sound like a legitimate charity. Charity Navigator, mentioned by others, can help you distinguish wheat from chaff when it comes to charities of all types.

A legitimate charity which functions in the law enforcement space is Concerns of Police Survivors (COPS): https://www.concernsofpolicesurvivors.org/aboutcops
Yes. In my opinion it the best law enforcement charity. Though I am biased. They were of great assistance to my sister in law and two young children (my niece and nephew) and my parents when my police officer brother was killed in line of duty many years ago. I have been donating to them every year since. But they do not do cold calls. Good luck.
Last edited by jdb on Tue May 14, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamlucky13
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by iamlucky13 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:38 pm

Silence Dogood wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm
Godot wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:19 pm
Silence Dogood wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:47 pm
If I get a call, and I don't recognize the number, I let it go to voicemail.

If I get a call, and I do recognize the number, I still let it go to voicemail.
Do you ever check your voicemail?
Of course not, I'm a millennial. :wink:
Fair response.

In seriousness, though, I'm also a millennial, and at a loss why most of my peers (including my wife) do this.

If somebody I know not only called instead of texting or emailing, but actually left a voicemail, that seems like a sign the call was a high priority. These days, I would even say it is unusual behavior to leave a voicemail, and unusual behavior often is a sign worth paying attention to. That was reinforced in particular the night the call was from my dad telling me my sister was being airlifted to the hospital. She was fine, by the way. I only mention it to drive home the point.

Actually, I know why my wife ignores her voicemail. 90% of her voicemails are from her mother, and she'd rather take a helicopter ride to the hospital than respond to the conversations her mother leaves voicemails about. :oops:

deikel
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by deikel » Tue May 14, 2019 2:39 pm

I hate those guilt trips too

At the supermarket cashier asking ' do you want to contribute to the children's cancer fund' ? 'No, Thank you'

At the airport lately when boarding at Delta: ' our flight attendant now comes around to collect for the breast cancer whatnot fund, we all know a family member who has suffered from that fate and would appreciate your help' 'No thank you'

In the mail lately from my newly voted-in county sheriff: ' As your new sheriff I am asking you to contribute to our fund blah blah blah' 'rip in pieces and put in recycle bin'

Any phone call of this sort, my response is always: 'Please take me off your call list, I am on the national do not call list, you are violating federal law.click.'

maybe its just me, but they have become more and more aggressive lately and it motivates me even less to donate in general...which is sad, given the need.
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immediately and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.

Silence Dogood
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Silence Dogood » Tue May 14, 2019 3:03 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:38 pm
Silence Dogood wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm
Godot wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:19 pm
Silence Dogood wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:47 pm
If I get a call, and I don't recognize the number, I let it go to voicemail.

If I get a call, and I do recognize the number, I still let it go to voicemail.
Do you ever check your voicemail?
Of course not, I'm a millennial. :wink:
Fair response.

In seriousness, though, I'm also a millennial, and at a loss why most of my peers (including my wife) do this.

If somebody I know not only called instead of texting or emailing, but actually left a voicemail, that seems like a sign the call was a high priority. These days, I would even say it is unusual behavior to leave a voicemail, and unusual behavior often is a sign worth paying attention to. That was reinforced in particular the night the call was from my dad telling me my sister was being airlifted to the hospital. She was fine, by the way. I only mention it to drive home the point.

Actually, I know why my wife ignores her voicemail. 90% of her voicemails are from her mother, and she'd rather take a helicopter ride to the hospital than respond to the conversations her mother leaves voicemails about. :oops:
For the record, I actually do check my voicemails. That comment was written in jest.

I even have phone conversations every once in a while.

I agree with everything you wrote.
Last edited by Silence Dogood on Tue May 14, 2019 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DetroitRick
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Location: SE Michigan

Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by DetroitRick » Tue May 14, 2019 3:15 pm

Ditto on not answering phone. If I don't recognize the number, it goes to voicemail. As far as charity goes, I only contribute to those I've found and vetted first. I would rather give more to fewer and better charities. I never give based on solicitations. Only two exceptions ever, Scouts and Salvation Army on rare occasion, because I know those organizations well enough. There are too many lousy charities out there (in terms of high fund raising and admin costs relative to charitable mission, assuming that a mission even exists). I refuse to add to my workload. So I proactively find and donate only to charities of my choosing. Everybody else, should they manage to reach me, gets a firm "no". No explanation is ever necessary or deserved.

Whether by mail or phone solicitation, dubious charities are big business. I also understand how they prey on the elderly specifically. We've taken over mail and voicemail for my elderly mother-in-law since late last year. Looking at the massive quantity of phone and mail solicitations she gets, my blood just boils. A few are legit, most are horrible charities or outright scams. I knew it was common, but had never seen the pure volume up close and personal myself on a daily basis. Same with my elderly next door neighbor. Now that I've seen where it leads, I find saying "no" to be even easier than before.

To vet charities, I try to use multiple sources. Ideally sites like Charity Navigator combined with active user experience (somebody who has used the charity, worked with the charity or gotten benefit from the charity). It's not easy, which is why I restrict all my giving to only a handful. Plus, I have finite resources and want to make the best use of them.

fru-gal
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by fru-gal » Tue May 14, 2019 3:40 pm

As far as I know, those calls supposedly to benefit the police, firefighters, or veterans are all scams. I got one a few days ago that was even an AI voice, not a human. I just hang up immediately, as I do with all telemarketing calls.

If you want to donate to those causes, I suggest calling the police, etc. and asking for contact info for a legitimate charity.

fru-gal
Posts: 748
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by fru-gal » Tue May 14, 2019 3:46 pm

deikel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:39 pm

maybe its just me, but they have become more and more aggressive lately and it motivates me even less to donate in general...which is sad, given the need.
Don't let the scammers and guilt trippers affect your feelings about honest charities.

I resent the guilt trip at the supermarket checkout, but now I just say No and get mildly aggravated. There is no way to check out the legitimacy of these "charities," how much money goes to their causes vs. some CEO's megabucks salary, and the tactics are dirty pool. They are treating you like your money does not matter and you'll fork out something because of the guilt trip.

fru-gal
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by fru-gal » Tue May 14, 2019 3:51 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:51 pm
dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:26 pm
DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE. Let it go to voicemail. If they hear a voice, they mark the number "live". If they hear an old person's voice, they mark it "live meat". NEVER INTERACT WITH THEM. DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE FOR ANY UNKNOWN NUMBERS.
This is what my wife does. However, from time to time I get calls with an out of area phone number -- BUT is someone I know who kept their cell phone number from where they used to live.
Let voicemail handle it. Call them back. :shock:

You gotta love people who insist on answering the call, and saying "no thank you". Again, this marks you as FRESH MEAT and your number is sold over and over, with the note "old person".
Ah, ageism, which depressingly often shows up in bogleheads. Sometimes calls are answered if one is expecting a callback from a contractor, doctor's office, etc.

Yooper
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Location: Nothern Michigan

Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by Yooper » Tue May 14, 2019 5:50 pm

The last time it happened (last year), I kept them on the cordless phone while I went downstairs to pull up my 2018 property tax statement. When they finally got around to asking if I could be "counted on to support these brave men and women", I simply stated I did already. There was an awkward silence, and then I continued and told them I paid $510 in taxes to the police pension system in 2018, and will be paying at least that if not more the following year. I don't know that this had any effect, but I've never been called since. I fully support all public services, but the whole guilt laden delivery on their part really turns me off.

And don't get me started on the NRA. They're the worst. The last time they called I said no, I wouldn't pledge any money (I never have), but I would pay an increased annual membership fee if it meant I wouldn't be called throughout the year and asked for money.

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dm200
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by dm200 » Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm

fru-gal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:40 pm
As far as I know, those calls supposedly to benefit the police, firefighters, or veterans are all scams. I got one a few days ago that was even an AI voice, not a human. I just hang up immediately, as I do with all telemarketing calls.
If you want to donate to those causes, I suggest calling the police, etc. and asking for contact info for a legitimate charity.
As best I understand, these police, firefighters, etc. groups are equally responsible for such scams by allowing their names to be used.

adamthesmythe
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by adamthesmythe » Tue May 14, 2019 5:56 pm

I cannot be sure these are legitimate funds. They are, in fact, as far as I am concerned, among the more suspect "charities." I never donate.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by ResearchMed » Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 pm

dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm
fru-gal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:40 pm
As far as I know, those calls supposedly to benefit the police, firefighters, or veterans are all scams. I got one a few days ago that was even an AI voice, not a human. I just hang up immediately, as I do with all telemarketing calls.
If you want to donate to those causes, I suggest calling the police, etc. and asking for contact info for a legitimate charity.
As best I understand, these police, firefighters, etc. groups are equally responsible for such scams by allowing their names to be used.
When we called our local PD with the "name" given for the organization calling for contributions on behalf of the PD, they told us that it basically a scam, and they do not use such organizations to solicit.

What makes you think the PD's are "allowing" their names to be used?
I figure it a great "name" to use to "get money", as would be donations to support something like "Child Survivors of <whatever>".

Why would a legitimate non-profit/group participate at all?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

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dm200
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by dm200 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:05 pm

adamthesmythe wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:56 pm
I cannot be sure these are legitimate funds. They are, in fact, as far as I am concerned, among the more suspect "charities." I never donate.
I think there are two, somewhat different, questions:

1. Is it a 100% complete "scam" where the calling company is just fraudulently using the name of the police, firefighters, etc. organization name?

2. is it a 99% "scam" where the police,, firefighters, etc. allow use of the name for a small cut of the take?

A third possibility (I think it is rare) is that the police, firefighters, etc. have engaged these telemarketers and are getting a significant net part of the proceeds.

To me, then, I do not like any of the three possibilities -- so I never donate when called.

I would be interested if there are any folks out there who are affiliated with police, firefighters, veterans, etc. and have any experience with such fundraising.

Neither do I send money when I get "stuff" in the mail - ans asking for a donation. I keep the stickers, stamps, or other "stuff" and throw the rest in the trash.

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dm200
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by dm200 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:07 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 pm
dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm
fru-gal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:40 pm
As far as I know, those calls supposedly to benefit the police, firefighters, or veterans are all scams. I got one a few days ago that was even an AI voice, not a human. I just hang up immediately, as I do with all telemarketing calls.
If you want to donate to those causes, I suggest calling the police, etc. and asking for contact info for a legitimate charity.
As best I understand, these police, firefighters, etc. groups are equally responsible for such scams by allowing their names to be used.
When we called our local PD with the "name" given for the organization calling for contributions on behalf of the PD, they told us that it basically a scam, and they do not use such organizations to solicit.

What makes you think the PD's are "allowing" their names to be used?

I figure it a great "name" to use to "get money", as would be donations to support something like "Child Survivors of <whatever>".

Why would a legitimate non-profit/group participate at all?

RM
I cannot cite a reference now, but that is my understanding. When I used to ask - that is what, more or less, what the caller told me.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by ResearchMed » Tue May 14, 2019 6:09 pm

dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:07 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 pm
dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm
fru-gal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:40 pm
As far as I know, those calls supposedly to benefit the police, firefighters, or veterans are all scams. I got one a few days ago that was even an AI voice, not a human. I just hang up immediately, as I do with all telemarketing calls.
If you want to donate to those causes, I suggest calling the police, etc. and asking for contact info for a legitimate charity.
As best I understand, these police, firefighters, etc. groups are equally responsible for such scams by allowing their names to be used.
When we called our local PD with the "name" given for the organization calling for contributions on behalf of the PD, they told us that it basically a scam, and they do not use such organizations to solicit.

What makes you think the PD's are "allowing" their names to be used?

I figure it a great "name" to use to "get money", as would be donations to support something like "Child Survivors of <whatever>".

Why would a legitimate non-profit/group participate at all?

RM
I cannot cite a reference now, but that is my understanding. When I used to ask - that is what, more or less, what the caller told me.
Well, of course that is what a scammer would say.
Would a scammer say, "No, we are not authorized to use the name of the <PD/etc.> but give us money anyway?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

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dm200
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Re: Police and Troopers fund.

Post by dm200 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:12 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:09 pm
dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:07 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 pm
dm200 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm
fru-gal wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:40 pm
As far as I know, those calls supposedly to benefit the police, firefighters, or veterans are all scams. I got one a few days ago that was even an AI voice, not a human. I just hang up immediately, as I do with all telemarketing calls.
If you want to donate to those causes, I suggest calling the police, etc. and asking for contact info for a legitimate charity.
As best I understand, these police, firefighters, etc. groups are equally responsible for such scams by allowing their names to be used.
When we called our local PD with the "name" given for the organization calling for contributions on behalf of the PD, they told us that it basically a scam, and they do not use such organizations to solicit.

What makes you think the PD's are "allowing" their names to be used?

I figure it a great "name" to use to "get money", as would be donations to support something like "Child Survivors of <whatever>".

Why would a legitimate non-profit/group participate at all?

RM
I cannot cite a reference now, but that is my understanding. When I used to ask - that is what, more or less, what the caller told me.
Well, of course that is what a scammer would say.
Would a scammer say, "No, we are not authorized to use the name of the <PD/etc.> but give us money anyway?

RM
Good point. Maybe someone has some inside knowledge.

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