Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

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neurosphere
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by neurosphere »

Dialectical Investor wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:05 pm
AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:52 pm
If I wanted to open an RIA, now that I've passed the Series 65, I could do so and offer services literally for $0, and not care about the overhead.

Is this, perhaps, my next phase in life? Spreading the indexing gospel, with the means/ability of an aggressive marketing campaign behind it???

I'm no Rick Ferri, obviously. But I could join that good fight, if I chose. Is this my not-for-profit mission going forward?
If you do this, you should charge a reasonable fee, perhaps even higher than what you think is reasonable, otherwise very few people will take you seriously. They will assume the advice is worth what they pay. You might have seen Rick's thread recently where he shared his hourly fee. It might be possible to setup a private foundation that was very visible, so you could point to it as the funding source. Even then, I have my doubts.
I propose considering a Robin Hood model. Set a fair/high fee. Then decide if there are cases which merit no-fee, and/or take your profits and direct those to charitable endeavors within the world of personal finance education.
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

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This topic has been moved to the personal finance forum (how we spend our time).

I also removed several inappropriate posts. Please keep in mind our forum policies, in particular:


At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.

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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by LadyGeek »

FYI - This thread was temporarily removed for moderator review.

Please stay on-topic and state your concerns in a civil, factual manner.
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venkman
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by venkman »

AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am After taking the Series 65, I feel very confident in asserting that anybody that only passes this one test is NOT competent to offer financial advice.
I took the 65 a couple years ago, as a way to convince my mother to let me manage her portfolio instead of her 1.5% AUM advisor. I studied about an hour a day for 6 weeks, and passed by a wide margin. (It took another year to convince her to finally leave the advisor, but it was worth it.)

I would in no way entrust my investment decisions to anyone whose primary qualification was that they passed the Series 65 exam.
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Stinky
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by Stinky »

venkman wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:53 pm
AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am After taking the Series 65, I feel very confident in asserting that anybody that only passes this one test is NOT competent to offer financial advice.
I took the 65 a couple years ago, as a way to convince my mother to let me manage her portfolio instead of her 1.5% AUM advisor. I studied about an hour a day for 6 weeks, and passed by a wide margin. (It took another year to convince her to finally leave the advisor, but it was worth it.)

I would in no way entrust my investment decisions to anyone whose primary qualification was that they passed the Series 65 exam.
Very resourceful of you to have done this. And I trust that you’re saving your parent a lot of money, and probably giving better advice to boot.

This is a great first-person testimony about the “value” of Series 65.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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beyou
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by beyou »

IMO, what does this have to do with anything? will any company hire you now that you have passed this exam? will anyone allow you to manage your account now that you have passed this exam?
Some will hire you before taking any exams, and you take while employed. Sales skills/contacts seem to be the
main criteria to be hired.
Pu239
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by Pu239 »

This is fascinating. Let us know if and what other financial exams you decide to take with results posted. Pad that resume!
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot
PowderDay9
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by PowderDay9 »

serbeer wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:17 am
AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:42 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:56 am You’re a CPA?

Then perhaps you should not use your experience to pass judgment on the difficulty of the test?
No, I am neither CPA or attorney, and do not possess an accounting, finance, or law degree.

For what it's worth, my fall/winter "on a whim" project will be to qualify for and sit for the CPA exam, just to see if I can pass it. Two weeks ago, it was the real estate broker exam.
CPA exam? Good luck, I heard these are actually very hard, used to be simpler 20 years ago but hardened quite a bit since then.
Thanks for proving what we suspected about the Series 65! That's pretty awesome. After you get done with the CPA exam you should try taking one of the 10 actuarial exams. Sign up for exam FM (Financial Mathematics) and go take it on a whim! :)
grtwallchina75
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by grtwallchina75 »

I suggest taking the CFP exam.

I've talked to 50+ financial planners / advisors but yet to find a 100% 'boglehead' CFP (exclusion Roth A, Ferri R )
AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am
1). There are other threads on BH about how to become an RIA, but I have not found any threads showcasing personal experience from BH members that became inspired to do so. Are there any such stories? If so, I'd love to hear them. Were you so inspired by the Bogle way that you felt compelled to either start a side hustle, make a career switch, or embark on a post-retirement second career in financial planning?

2). Is there anything that the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy is doing/can do to influence the financial planning profession, in terms of competency?
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by A440 »

AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am Were you so inspired by the Bogle way that you felt compelled to either start a side hustle, make a career switch, or embark on a post-retirement second career in financial planning?
I am so chagrined by the 403b and 403b(7) options available for teachers in our district that I've thought about of getting my certification when I retire so I can help guide new teachers to a better product, or as Jack would say, "A fair shake". However, that means retiring from the classroom to the teacher's copier room/lunchroom and working for one of those companies that offers poor products. If I were to find a side hustle selling 403b(7)'s I wouldn't make any money because I'd tell them how to DIY using a Participant-Directed Plan or some no-load fund through Vanguard, or Fidelity. :happy
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by Strayshot »

A440 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:13 am
AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am Were you so inspired by the Bogle way that you felt compelled to either start a side hustle, make a career switch, or embark on a post-retirement second career in financial planning?
I am so chagrined by the 403b and 403b(7) options available for teachers in our district that I've thought about of getting my certification when I retire so I can help guide new teachers to a better product, or as Jack would say, "A fair shake". However, that means retiring from the classroom to the teacher's copier room/lunchroom and working for one of those companies that offers poor products. If I were to find a side hustle selling 403b(7)'s I wouldn't make any money because I'd tell them how to DIY using a Participant-Directed Plan or some no-load fund through Vanguard, or Fidelity. :happy
Why not band together with other teachers and lobby the system to make changes? If nothing else, documenting high fees and demonstrating that you and others tried to do something about it outside of litigation would strengthen possible future litigation.
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by Greenman72 »

confusedinvestor wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:03 am
I've talked to 50+ financial planners / advisors but yet to find a 100% 'boglehead' CFP (exclusion Roth A, Ferri R )
I wouldn't consider Rick Ferri a "financial planner". He himself says that he doesn't do financial planning. I do think he is an excellent investment advisor, though. (I know a lot less about Allan Roth.)

This is not merely a semantic argument. Investment Management and Financial Planning are not the same thing. Not by a long shot.
grtwallchina75
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by grtwallchina75 »

Rick is starting hourly financial planning model, you can listen to the latest Boglehead post with Rick and Allan.

Yes, sure, Investment Management is only a small part of Financial planning, beside, Retirement planning, Cash Flow projections, Estate planning, Tax planning, Insurance / Risk Protection planning, Collage Planning, Short term, Mid term and Long term Life goals planning albeit ....
Greenman72 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:37 am
confusedinvestor wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:03 am
I've talked to 50+ financial planners / advisors but yet to find a 100% 'boglehead' CFP (exclusion Roth A, Ferri R )
I wouldn't consider Rick Ferri a "financial planner". He himself says that he doesn't do financial planning. I do think he is an excellent investment advisor, though. (I know a lot less about Allan Roth.)

This is not merely a semantic argument. Investment Management and Financial Planning are not the same thing. Not by a long shot.
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by LadyGeek »

Greenman72 has brought up a very important point. It is critical for investors to understand the difference between an investment adviser (and broker-dealer) and a financial planner. See the wiki:

- Investment adviser
- Financial planner
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MittensMoney
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by MittensMoney »

I'd actually argue that at this point, you're well qualified to be a financial advisor. As people on this forum know - it's not that difficult to manage your money well, and yet despite that fact we see millions of people failing to do so. You had the knowledge, now you have the license, and you can provide a valuable service at an hourly rate to a population that desperately needs it. Seems pretty squared away to me..
Last edited by MittensMoney on Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
deltaneutral83
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by deltaneutral83 »

The Series 66 is a test written by lawyers for investment professionals, the Series 7 is a test written by investment professionals for investment professionals. Skilled test takers I could see getting by the 63/65/66 with minimal training and I could easily see seasoned professionals needing weeks of studying. The 7 you would have to have some decent knowledge about the business and products offered. Example, you can't know what an option is by being skilled in test taking and it's applications. The 66/7 aren't designed to be end all be all either, but they weed out a lot of people and it does a better job of weeding out frauds than some of the real estate exams I've seen. We have a lot of MD's and high earning professionals on this board so the OP doesn't surprise me too much as 70% passes both of these or they did a decade ago.
Greenman72
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by Greenman72 »

confusedinvestor wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:06 am Rick is starting hourly financial planning model, you can listen to the latest Boglehead post with Rick and Allan.
Straight from the horse's mouth....
Rick Ferri wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:58 pm
I am not a financial planner and do not do financial plans.
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Re: Suddenly, even lower opinion of financial planners/money managers

Post by A440 »

Strayshot wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:26 am
A440 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:13 am
AerialWombat wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am Were you so inspired by the Bogle way that you felt compelled to either start a side hustle, make a career switch, or embark on a post-retirement second career in financial planning?
I am so chagrined by the 403b and 403b(7) options available for teachers in our district that I've thought about of getting my certification when I retire so I can help guide new teachers to a better product, or as Jack would say, "A fair shake". However, that means retiring from the classroom to the teacher's copier room/lunchroom and working for one of those companies that offers poor products. If I were to find a side hustle selling 403b(7)'s I wouldn't make any money because I'd tell them how to DIY using a Participant-Directed Plan or some no-load fund through Vanguard, or Fidelity. :happy
Why not band together with other teachers and lobby the system to make changes? If nothing else, documenting high fees and demonstrating that you and others tried to do something about it outside of litigation would strengthen possible future litigation.
This is how we got the Participant-Directed plan with Lincoln Investments :happy . Access to Vanguard Admiral share funds and $71 fees to our Third-Party Administrator(Omni403b). You can read my posting on the plan for more information.
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.
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