Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Topic Author
jb1
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:33 am
Location: NC

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by jb1 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:30 pm
Early in the thread someone mentioned options with the military. Was there ever a reply to that?
I personally wouldnt want a job with the military, thats just me though.
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:58 pm
OP,

May I ask what is your problem?

A) What do you want?

B) What you are not getting?

C) If somehow, you can get whatever you wish for, what would that be?

KlangFool
A) Honestly, financial freedom at some point and to be happy with my day to day activities.
B) work life balance, current job only get 7 days off all which are encouraged to be used in december when we arent busy. Worse part is when it is 4:30 on a Friday and we are all done for the week (all shipments went out), we still need to sit and wait until 5. A bit depressing. No one i work with has a family, so i doubt they have anything else better to do.
C) To wake up and do what I want, business related, whether it is check on houses, focus on soccer training etc. Would love to be able to travel, check my phone, respond to emails, and have an online store of some sort (which I have tried).

Maybe I am not being realistic, I just need to be patient.
dknightd wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:10 pm
maybe you can get a job with this outfit

https://www.northcarolinafc.com/
Our rival club! I am always there and that is who Id coach with if i moved.

Thank you all for the responses!

User avatar
SevenBridgesRoad
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:14 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by SevenBridgesRoad » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:09 pm

jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm

...Worse part is when it is 4:30 on a Friday and we are all done for the week (all shipments went out), we still need to sit and wait until 5. A bit depressing...

Maybe I am not being realistic, I just need to be patient.
Seriously? The worst part of your job, at age 28, is waiting from 4:30 to 5:00 to leave?

I have trouble believing you've received well over one hundred well-meaning responses, the misguided kindness of strangers, when what the adults in this room need to tell you: grow up, yes be patient, and understand what hard work really means, which is not suffering through the last 30 minutes until 5 PM. I'm not trying to be cruel. I'm the grizzled coach grabbing you and yelling, with spit, "Son!! What in the world do you think you are doing??!!" [edited by moderator oldcomputerguy]

Hopefully, you will learn what hard work really is, find a mentor who will be honest and direct like I am being without coddling, and you finally mature to be a grown man and become successful.
There are stars in the Southern sky | And if ever you decide you should go | There is a taste of time sweetened honey | Down the Seven Bridges Road

Topic Author
jb1
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:33 am
Location: NC

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by jb1 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:21 pm

SevenBridgesRoad wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:09 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm

...Worse part is when it is 4:30 on a Friday and we are all done for the week (all shipments went out), we still need to sit and wait until 5. A bit depressing...

Maybe I am not being realistic, I just need to be patient.
Seriously? The worst part of your job, at age 28, is waiting from 4:30 to 5:00 to leave?

I have trouble believing you've received well over one hundred well-meaning responses, the misguided kindness of strangers, when what the adults in this room need to tell you: grow up, yes be patient, and understand what hard work really means, which is not suffering through the last 30 minutes until 5 PM. I'm not trying to be cruel. I'm the grizzled coach grabbing you and yelling, with spit, "Son!! What in the world do you think you are doing??!!" [edited by moderator oldcomputerguy]

Hopefully, you will learn what hard work really is, find a mentor who will be honest and direct like I am being without coddling, and you finally mature to be a grown man and become successful.
Haha "learn what hard work is". Does that explain how at age 28 I have 6 figures in a Vanguard account, 15k in savings, and a house without any help? Mind you while everyone was partying in college, I was working until 2am parking cars, reffing soccer on weekends while everyone was watching netflix and football, and reading while everyone was sitting on the couch. I think i know what hard work is, and I wouldnt go back to change it.

So yea, to be honest, after lifting 3k pounds of aluminum, on a friday id like to leave somewhat early, and enjoy my life, rather than sit and stare at a wall. Work life balance is a thing especially in this generation. Also unforutnately there are no benefits, and for a company of 5 people there wasnt even a "thank you" for xmas. How do you think that makes employees feel? As a soccer coach, I learn how to manage players. When they work their tails off, I be sure to cut it early by 10-15 minutes, and thank them for the hard work. They put a good shift in and deserve it. Little gestures like that, go a long way. Maybe its more so of a management problem

Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 20275
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:29 pm

jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:30 pm
Early in the thread someone mentioned options with the military. Was there ever a reply to that?
I personally wouldnt want a job with the military, thats just me though.
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:58 pm
OP,

May I ask what is your problem?

A) What do you want?

B) What you are not getting?

C) If somehow, you can get whatever you wish for, what would that be?

KlangFool
A) Honestly, financial freedom at some point and to be happy with my day to day activities.
Stop watching CNBC and HGTV, very very few have financial freedom before their 50's unless they were born into it, married into it, got lucky, or worked really really hard and managed to pull it off. Happy with day to day activities - you create your own happiness, if what you are doing now isn't working, then its time to come up with an alternative plan that may lead you there.
B) work life balance, current job only get 7 days off all which are encouraged to be used in december when we arent busy. Worse part is when it is 4:30 on a Friday and we are all done for the week (all shipments went out), we still need to sit and wait until 5. A bit depressing. No one i work with has a family, so i doubt they have anything else better to do. Nothing to do? Hmm, how about using those 30 minutes to think about a plan on how you are going to find the job/career you really want? Maybe practice some meditation to relieve some of your stress, perhaps think about your plan for the weekend? There are lots of things you could be doing rather than just seemingly wait around 30 minutes for the 5PM whistle to blow.
C) To wake up and do what I want, business related, whether it is check on houses, focus on soccer training etc. Would love to be able to travel, check my phone, respond to emails, and have an online store of some sort (which I have tried).
Consider this to be your long term goal, but first you have to work on your short-term/intermediate goal - find a job/career that will provide you with a big enough income and satisfaction shovel to permit you to gain financial independence, build a career and obtain the happiness you think is missing right now.
Maybe I am not being realistic, I just need to be patient.
Being patient is not going to get a job to fall into your lap, you have to make a plan, refine it if it's not working as you anticipate, then execute it. You are too young to just become complacent and patient, go after what it you want. If what you want is not attainable, have an alternative plan that doesn't require you to wait 30 minutes for the 5PM whistle to blow. Good Luck!
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 20275
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:43 pm

jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:21 pm
SevenBridgesRoad wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:09 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm

...Worse part is when it is 4:30 on a Friday and we are all done for the week (all shipments went out), we still need to sit and wait until 5. A bit depressing...

Maybe I am not being realistic, I just need to be patient.
Seriously? The worst part of your job, at age 28, is waiting from 4:30 to 5:00 to leave?

I have trouble believing you've received well over one hundred well-meaning responses, the misguided kindness of strangers, when what the adults in this room need to tell you: grow up, yes be patient, and understand what hard work really means, which is not suffering through the last 30 minutes until 5 PM. I'm not trying to be cruel. I'm the grizzled coach grabbing you and yelling, with spit, "Son!! What in the world do you think you are doing??!!" [edited by moderator oldcomputerguy]

Hopefully, you will learn what hard work really is, find a mentor who will be honest and direct like I am being without coddling, and you finally mature to be a grown man and become successful.
Haha "learn what hard work is". Does that explain how at age 28 I have 6 figures in a Vanguard account, 15k in savings, and a house without any help? Mind you while everyone was partying in college, I was working until 2am parking cars, reffing soccer on weekends while everyone was watching netflix and football, and reading while everyone was sitting on the couch. I think i know what hard work is, and I wouldnt go back to change it.

So yea, to be honest, after lifting 3k pounds of aluminum, on a friday id like to leave somewhat early, and enjoy my life, rather than sit and stare at a wall. Work life balance is a thing especially in this generation. Also unforutnately there are no benefits, and for a company of 5 people there wasnt even a "thank you" for xmas. How do you think that makes employees feel? As a soccer coach, I learn how to manage players. When they work their tails off, I be sure to cut it early by 10-15 minutes, and thank them for the hard work. They put a good shift in and deserve it. Little gestures like that, go a long way. Maybe its more so of a management problem
There are alot of employers who don't say thank you, they don't say good morning or good night, they only care about one thing, production. How much production has jb1 done today, this week, this month, this year and is jb1 worth X dollars to provide Y value? In return, JB1 receives a paycheck, it may not be what JB1 wants, but for the most part its an employment at will society, you work, they pay you. If you don't like it, you can leave at any time, if they don't need you, they can say you no longer work there.
It's not about "working hard", you need to "work smart". Working smart has zero to do with what is in your bank account, Vanguard account, brokerage, etc, it has everything to do with putting you on your path to mobility in career and life. Take the weekend to think about the advice on this thread, it's constructive criticism, they are not personal attacks on you so don't take the phrase "working hard" literally. Use it, don't use it, come up with your own ideas, go on informational interviews in your desired career and make a plan to get away from the aluminum industry.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

wootwoot
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by wootwoot » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:28 pm

OP maybe you should buy more houses in your area and rent them out, become a landlord. You seem much more passionate about landlording than working a strict 9-5.

User avatar
SevenBridgesRoad
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:14 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by SevenBridgesRoad » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:49 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:43 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:21 pm
SevenBridgesRoad wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:09 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm

...Worse part is when it is 4:30 on a Friday and we are all done for the week (all shipments went out), we still need to sit and wait until 5. A bit depressing...

Maybe I am not being realistic, I just need to be patient.
Seriously? The worst part of your job, at age 28, is waiting from 4:30 to 5:00 to leave?

I have trouble believing you've received well over one hundred well-meaning responses, the misguided kindness of strangers, when what the adults in this room need to tell you: grow up, yes be patient, and understand what hard work really means, which is not suffering through the last 30 minutes until 5 PM. I'm not trying to be cruel. I'm the grizzled coach grabbing you and yelling, with spit, "Son!! What in the world do you think you are doing??!!" [edited by moderator oldcomputerguy]

Hopefully, you will learn what hard work really is, find a mentor who will be honest and direct like I am being without coddling, and you finally mature to be a grown man and become successful.
Haha "learn what hard work is". Does that explain how at age 28 I have 6 figures in a Vanguard account, 15k in savings, and a house without any help? Mind you while everyone was partying in college, I was working until 2am parking cars, reffing soccer on weekends while everyone was watching netflix and football, and reading while everyone was sitting on the couch. I think i know what hard work is, and I wouldnt go back to change it.

So yea, to be honest, after lifting 3k pounds of aluminum, on a friday id like to leave somewhat early, and enjoy my life, rather than sit and stare at a wall. Work life balance is a thing especially in this generation. Also unforutnately there are no benefits, and for a company of 5 people there wasnt even a "thank you" for xmas. How do you think that makes employees feel? As a soccer coach, I learn how to manage players. When they work their tails off, I be sure to cut it early by 10-15 minutes, and thank them for the hard work. They put a good shift in and deserve it. Little gestures like that, go a long way. Maybe its more so of a management problem
There are alot of employers who don't say thank you, they don't say good morning or good night, they only care about one thing, production. How much production has jb1 done today, this week, this month, this year and is jb1 worth X dollars to provide Y value? In return, JB1 receives a paycheck, it may not be what JB1 wants, but for the most part its an employment at will society, you work, they pay you. If you don't like it, you can leave at any time, if they don't need you, they can say you no longer work there.
It's not about "working hard", you need to "work smart". Working smart has zero to do with what is in your bank account, Vanguard account, brokerage, etc, it has everything to do with putting you on your path to mobility in career and life. Take the weekend to think about the advice on this thread, it's constructive criticism, they are not personal attacks on you so don't take the phrase "working hard" literally. Use it, don't use it, come up with your own ideas, go on informational interviews in your desired career and make a plan to get away from the aluminum industry.
Great summary advice.
There are stars in the Southern sky | And if ever you decide you should go | There is a taste of time sweetened honey | Down the Seven Bridges Road

Bacchus01
Posts: 2537
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by Bacchus01 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:33 am

EdNorton wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:18 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:45 pm
yangtui wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:43 pm
jb1 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:40 pm
Id love to go back to school for an MBA, but honestly that would be extremely silly.
Why would it be silly? If you can get into a good program it is a great way to jump start a career. You can develop relationships with high caliber people and recruit with top firms.
A person who’s only done factory labor is not getting into a good MBA program. No offense to the OP.
With a great GMAT score, a factory worker can get into a good MBA program. Adds some diversity to the student profile.
What’s the definition of a “good MBA” program anyway?

inbox788
Posts: 6148
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by inbox788 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:43 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:33 am
What’s the definition of a “good MBA” program anyway?
One of the higher ranking ones that isn't great? Conventional wisdom is that the ROI on less than great MBA programs isn't that good.

https://www.inc.com/business-insider/35 ... he-us.html

There are many good programs, but the top schools suck up many of the better applicants, so the remaining schools have to make do with a mixed talent pool, and some schools do better than others, but a lot is up to the individual students.

Why would OP benefit from an MBA at this juncture spending time getting another masters degree?

Bacchus01
Posts: 2537
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by Bacchus01 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:07 am

inbox788 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:43 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:33 am
What’s the definition of a “good MBA” program anyway?
One of the higher ranking ones that isn't great? Conventional wisdom is that the ROI on less than great MBA programs isn't that good.

https://www.inc.com/business-insider/35 ... he-us.html

There are many good programs, but the top schools suck up many of the better applicants, so the remaining schools have to make do with a mixed talent pool, and some schools do better than others, but a lot is up to the individual students.

Why would OP benefit from an MBA at this juncture spending time getting another masters degree?

I think it would be silly for the OP to get an MBA.

I also think it silly that unless you get a “good MBA” that you shouldn’t do it, as was implied.

I did not get an MBA from a top business school. I tuna $B business. None of my colleagues anywhere or in the industry that I know got a “good MBA” from a top school. I went to a good regional public school for my MBA.

This nonsense that you MUST go to top schools has gotten out of hand.

Rus In Urbe
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:12 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by Rus In Urbe » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:33 am

OP wrote:
I will be honest I’m getting different answers here, some sayin it’s what you know others saying it’s who you know. So what is it?
You mean "which" is it? As you admitted upthread, your English and language skills need work. Get to it. If you are serious about being a success in life, take a page from the lives of the most successful people. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett (for instance) read. They read books. Go to the library. Read a book a week. No excuses. Just do it. You will notice a difference in about a year, when you will be 29.

Now to your question---is it what you know or who you know that gets you the job?
Answer: it is both.

As someone who has successfully helped a couple hundred college grads find meaningful jobs, I tell them that Knowing-Someone-Who-Knows-Someone will get your foot in the door. That is no small thing. Knowing-Someone will get you an interview--so yes, get on LinkedIn and work on your network. That is only the first step.

Knowing-Someone will not get you a job. What gets you a job is your attitude, your skills and your ability to prove (by your resume and by your interview) that you are someone who is reliable, hard-working, positive, upbeat. You need to prove you are someone who can and will get the job done and add value to the company. Your Track Record is what gets you the job.

For now, start improving your mind, your attitude, your communication skills. They will be key to your success. Good luck!
I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money. ~Pablo Picasso

Mr.BB
Posts: 845
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 10:10 am

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by Mr.BB » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:47 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:07 am
inbox788 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:43 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:33 am
What’s the definition of a “good MBA” program anyway?
One of the higher ranking ones that isn't great? Conventional wisdom is that the ROI on less than great MBA programs isn't that good.

https://www.inc.com/business-insider/35 ... he-us.html

There are many good programs, but the top schools suck up many of the better applicants, so the remaining schools have to make do with a mixed talent pool, and some schools do better than others, but a lot is up to the individual students.

Why would OP benefit from an MBA at this juncture spending time getting another masters degree?

I think it would be silly for the OP to get an MBA.

I also think it silly that unless you get a “good MBA” that you shouldn’t do it, as was implied.

I did not get an MBA from a top business school. I tuna $B business. None of my colleagues anywhere or in the industry that I know got a “good MBA” from a top school. I went to a good regional public school for my MBA.

This nonsense that you MUST go to top schools has gotten out of hand.
From the few things I've read from the OP and his responses, I think he has to work more on his own personal growth before he worries about an MBA. Improving his language skills, interviewing skills, etc. (maybe even his body language skills when he does an interview). You have to learn how to walk before you can run.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

Miguelito
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by Miguelito » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:38 am

Bacchus01 wrote: This nonsense that you MUST go to top schools has gotten out of hand.
In some cases there is truth behind it. If you are in an entry/mid-level job, getting any MBA will probably be worthwhile, particularly if it is an industry where an MBA is the next logical degree needed to get ahead, and especially when not in a major metro area.

If you already have a successful career but feel you want to make a change, it often takes an MBA from a top program to get you those lofty jobs that will make the monetary and time investment pay off.

mptfan
Posts: 5105
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by mptfan » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:02 am

Rus In Urbe wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:33 am
OP wrote:
I will be honest I’m getting different answers here, some sayin it’s what you know others saying it’s who you know. So what is it?
You mean "which" is it? As you admitted upthread, your English and language skills need work. Get to it. If you are serious about being a success in life, take a page from the lives of the most successful people. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett (for instance) read. They read books. Go to the library. Read a book a week. No excuses. Just do it. You will notice a difference in about a year, when you will be 29.
Also, "sayin" is saying. The OP underestimates the importance of using proper grammar and spelling. Start by using proper grammar and spelling every time you write something, including on this board.

investingdad
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by investingdad » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:19 am

I will repeat what I said earlier, I believe there is more to the story.

If the OP has sent out his resume 200 hundred times over 4 years (which is only once per week, by the way) and recieved no job offers, there is something else going on. Why not try a temp agency?

My wife has been struggling to find an entry level business grad for her department for the last six months capable of using Excel at a higher level. We cannot fill numerous professional positions we have posted, mostly engineering but many low level business roles as well.

Unemployment rate for college grads is around 2.1% based on latest data. Getting a job may require:

- relocating (I did)
- starting at the bottom (I did)

bryansmile
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:14 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by bryansmile » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:21 am

OP,
I didn't read all the replies but your story reminds me of my son's soccer coach from 10+ years back. He's a great volunteer coach (no pay, just reimbursement for gas, food, etc) and well liked by the kids and parents. At the time he's working full time at an indoor soccer place while finishing his business degree at a local college. He didn't talk much with the parents, but throughout the first 2 seasons he still gradually let all know his dream job after finishing college was to coach a public school athletic team. He eventually led the team to the regional championship and our team, which had never competed at that level, won.

Our team had parents with good local connections, some very influential. So when a coaching position opened up at the local high school, our coach, who just finished college, got it, with help from certain parents. He continued volunteer coaching the team for 1 more season.

apple44
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:22 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by apple44 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:26 am

SevenBridgesRoad wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:42 pm

I'm responding as if this isn't trolling, which I suspect it may well be...

No, its not a matter of luck.

The chip on your shoulder is a huge problem. Plenty of people get a good job based on their training, skills and experience. You already at a young age have some false beliefs, meaning ideas not based in reality. Knowing people (networking) is important, but it only works if you have something employers want and need. Plenty of people get good jobs without "knowing people".

Healthcare is a vast wide open field for motivated people with training and the right right attitude (which you may not have). It's almost impossible not to land a job in health care, if you are willing to work, have a great attitude and maybe start in a position you consider "beneath you". If you applied to 200 jobs in health care without getting a job offer, then something is wrong with your approach (and I have to say it, possibly, your attitude). As a hiring exec in health care for several decades, we always snapped up talented people with positive attitudes. Do you have anyone close who can give you honest feedback? And, what's up with the soccer stuff?
SevenBridgesRoad, I sent you a private message. Would you please read it? I'd appreciate it.

apple44
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:22 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by apple44 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:28 am

NoGambleNoFuture wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:08 pm

If sincere, shoot me a PM. I manage the recruiting team of mid-size publicly traded tech company on the west coast and I’d be happy to help review and think about what types of opportunities you might be a fit for in tech. Also, might know a few people in the northeast ;)
NoGamleNoFuture, I sent you a private message. Do you mind reading it? I'd appreciate it.

SrGrumpy
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by SrGrumpy » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:46 pm

Rus In Urbe wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:33 am
OP wrote:
I will be honest I’m getting different answers here, some sayin it’s what you know others saying it’s who you know. So what is it?
You mean "which" is it? As you admitted upthread, your English and language skills need work.
You omitted to rip him for not saying "whom you know." Maybe you have some work to do, also. I don't think attacks on OP's word choices - he has been typing a lot on his phone - are very productive. Americans' grasp of proper English in forum settings, including BH, is often tenuous.

Bacchus01
Posts: 2537
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by Bacchus01 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:03 pm

Miguelito wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:38 am
Bacchus01 wrote: This nonsense that you MUST go to top schools has gotten out of hand.
In some cases there is truth behind it. If you are in an entry/mid-level job, getting any MBA will probably be worthwhile, particularly if it is an industry where an MBA is the next logical degree needed to get ahead, and especially when not in a major metro area.

If you already have a successful career but feel you want to make a change, it often takes an MBA from a top program to get you those lofty jobs that will make the monetary and time investment pay off.
Completely untrue.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 52822
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:04 pm

^^^ 2 posts up. Before this escalates further, see: General Etiquette
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.

... At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Miguelito
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by Miguelito » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:02 pm

Bacchus01 wrote: Completely untrue.
You've had your experiences and I've had mine. To categorically call what I wrote "completely untrue" is absurd, wrong, and factually untrue.

inbox788
Posts: 6148
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by inbox788 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:14 pm

SrGrumpy wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:46 pm
Rus In Urbe wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:33 am
OP wrote:
I will be honest I’m getting different answers here, some sayin it’s what you know others saying it’s who you know. So what is it?
You mean "which" is it? As you admitted upthread, your English and language skills need work.
You omitted to rip him for not saying "whom you know." Maybe you have some work to do, also. I don't think attacks on OP's word choices - he has been typing a lot on his phone - are very productive. Americans' grasp of proper English in forum settings, including BH, is often tenuous.
I was playing with my cell phone in my English class when teacher looked in my direction and said "name 2 pronouns". I replied, "who, me"?

Knock knock. Who's there? To

There’s a big difference between knowing your [stuff] and knowing you’re [stuff]

Anyway, I think OP is asking the wrong questions. For me it's simply a matter of poor alignment. If the applicant is a smart guy who can pickup things quickly, works hard, and has a lot of other accomplishments, but has never programmed applies to 100 programmer jobs, he's not going to get any interviews. Even if the applicant had some coding experience, it may not be right kind or type and a lot of places wouldn't even look at that unless they had no other choice (if they're looking to support COBOL legacy, all the Java and C++ isn't going to help and they may not even look at applicants where the word COBOL isn't present on the resume). But most employers have the opposite problem of too many choices, so they have to screen (even better fits get screened out often) and I think OP is being screened out early for one reason or another. A better alignment where OPs background matches all or more of the checkboxes the employer is looking for should yield a higher interview rate. I still don't see where op was successful in attaining interviews to see if there is some commonality and a more specific area to pursue. For all I know, the 4 interviews were for truck driver positions or 4 different random unrelated positions.

https://thenextweb.com/finance/2017/04/ ... literally/
Last edited by inbox788 on Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EthanAllen
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:50 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by EthanAllen » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:27 pm

After reading through this thread and the numerous posts by the OP, it seems pretty clear to me that the biggest issue is location. There are very limited opportunities in the area where OP lives. I think the OP needs to expand his geographic search and be more targeted in his search. However, I DISAGREE with people who are suggesting that he move to find more opportunity. If I were in his position, I'd move AFTER he found a job, not before. But he can aggressively apply and interview in other locations. I've hired many people from outside my geographic area and the best interviewers are able to pitch that geographic mobility very well (e.g., I am very interested in this job and am willing to move and uproot my entire life to come take this opportunity.)

Good luck, OP.

User avatar
sunny_socal
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by sunny_socal » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:59 am

You need to get out of that factory job. BUILD your career. Right now you're making money (and doing more than surviving) but you're not gaining any relevant experience.

Who will get hired?
[Applicant A] Has a degree and 2 years of experience as an admin
[Applicant B] Has a degree and no experience (This is you - the resume ends up in the trash)

Anyone can lift boxes. Start doing something that requires using your brain. You're already doing mundane work, it will not be beneath you to get an entry-level admin job. Work up from there, get into customer service, seek more responsibility.

ArchibaldGraham
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by ArchibaldGraham » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:31 am

Most of the guidance is okay, but a bit off IMO. If I were OP I would focus on the following (in this order):

(1) Get your story straight. Clearly your path to any type of conventional corporate career is non-conventional. It does not sound like you have a good narrative and you need one. I think it can be as simple as you had a passion for soccer and you pursued it. Nobody will fault you for that - everyone [you'd want to work for] likes kids and most people you encounter either have been involved with youth sports or at least support it. Play up leadership skills, ability to have tough conversations (w/ parents about playing time), etc. from your soccer experience. AND find a way to articulate why you don't want to focus on soccer for rest of your life (Note: ideally this would be more compelling than just $$$, but if there is truly nothing else you can articulate then I don't think it is the worst thing to be honest and say you are not sure if youth sports will provide for your family). Your grad school also needs to be part of the story, but I would keep it as short and generic as possible unless it is relevant to the job and even then don't overplay it without supporting work experience.

(2) Get supporting experience related to what you are interested in. This could be volunteer position, internship (paid or unpaid), a part-time job, or independent project that is more closely related to what you are interested in. As others have mentioned, talk to parents of your athletes, friends from college, etc. to get foot in the door. If there are hard skills that would help you in your target jobs then I would also put MOOC (Coursera or similar) classes/certificates in this category as a secondary/supplemental piece here, but it is not a replacement for experience and I would not go for another degree without at least 2-3 years of experience in the field you want to be in.

(3) LinkedIn. The posts from others saying to focus on your resume and cover letter is at least a little dated, and laughably so for some industries. Yes, you probably need a resume, and you may also need formal cover letters for some applications, but start with your LinkedIn. It is the first thing many people will check and it is the best tool for networking so you should be using it a lot. You need a clean LinkedIn profile (professional'ish enough picture, no extraneous crap) that tells your story (#1) and illustrates relevant experience as you acquire it (#2). Note that as opposed to a resume you cant customize this for every job so you do need to think through where it makes sense to be more generic vs articulating a very specific goal. After you have a clean LinkedIn profile, I would reach out to add everyone you know (incl. all the athletes parents) and then over time follow up with every person that has accepted your invitation to connect to tell your story and inquire about any potential opportunities they may be aware of.

(4) I would pursue the soccer camp business. Sounds like you have passion for this and it could potentially be a viable business. Even if you make little money I think this can be a strong asset for your profile. It demonstrates initiative. You will also have opportunity to gain credible experience in things that may be transferable. For example if you were interested in advertising you can spend a few hundred dollars on a Google AdWords campaign and now you are experienced with Google AdWords (not saying you have to be interested in advertising, but just giving that as an example). If you are very bullish on this being a viable business opportunity then I would go all-in and hustle at this solely for a year or 2 and see how it goes. You have enough savings to get by and worst case it does not work out then I don't think this detracts from your story or limits you from pursuing a traditional corporate job in the future.

Good luck!

NoGambleNoFuture
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by NoGambleNoFuture » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:19 am

apple44 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:28 am
NoGambleNoFuture wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:08 pm

If sincere, shoot me a PM. I manage the recruiting team of mid-size publicly traded tech company on the west coast and I’d be happy to help review and think about what types of opportunities you might be a fit for in tech. Also, might know a few people in the northeast ;)
NoGamleNoFuture, I sent you a private message. Do you mind reading it? I'd appreciate it.
Just saw it - will reply ASAP (likely in a few days sorry for delay)

Engineer250
Posts: 1074
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by Engineer250 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:22 pm

I haven’t read all the replies and want to put more thought into a reply later, but I just wanted to say a few things.

A. The job market is not as “great” as the stats make it sound. Most new jobs have been in retail and fast food.

B. I agree it’s definitely who you know. And luck.

C. My experience with today’s job market is you better be already doing what they are going to hire you for and have more experience than they are hiring for, or better be someone’s kid.

D. This board is dominated by boomers who got their jobs with paper resumes and hand shakes at a time when the middle class job market was still booming. While I’m sure some are sympathetic and reasonable, expect a few old guys telling you to suck it up and don’t take it personally.

My husband went back to school for programming and got a Computer Science BS. He had an internship at a place he wanted to work. He graduates and is trying to get into that place. They lose a contract so they have a hiring freeze. Now it’s been more than six months since he graduated. He’s applied to every single entry level programming job in our county (and we are a good sized city). He had a few interviews, but no offers. News media would have you believe programming is so hot they will hire anyone. But because he’s not doing it right now, I think hiring managers are hesitant. The job market is just not as hot as everyone says.

I won’t go into my own personal history, but my experience is millennials now need bachelor degrees for any office job, AND experience. BA and experience might net you $30-$40k in an office job if you can be in the right place at the right time.
Where the tides of fortune take us, no man can know.

dknightd
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by dknightd » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:45 pm

I'll admit, I got my first real job many many years ago. So I do not know how things work today.
When they asked what are you good at, I listed learning new things quickly.
That got my toe in the door. When I look at new potential hires I look at what they might do.
Education matters, but is only part of the picture.

KyleAAA
Posts: 7035
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:03 pm

Engineer250 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:22 pm
I haven’t read all the replies and want to put more thought into a reply later, but I just wanted to say a few things.

A. The job market is not as “great” as the stats make it sound. Most new jobs have been in retail and fast food.

B. I agree it’s definitely who you know. And luck.

C. My experience with today’s job market is you better be already doing what they are going to hire you for and have more experience than they are hiring for, or better be someone’s kid.

D. This board is dominated by boomers who got their jobs with paper resumes and hand shakes at a time when the middle class job market was still booming. While I’m sure some are sympathetic and reasonable, expect a few old guys telling you to suck it up and don’t take it personally.

My husband went back to school for programming and got a Computer Science BS. He had an internship at a place he wanted to work. He graduates and is trying to get into that place. They lose a contract so they have a hiring freeze. Now it’s been more than six months since he graduated. He’s applied to every single entry level programming job in our county (and we are a good sized city). He had a few interviews, but no offers. News media would have you believe programming is so hot they will hire anyone. But because he’s not doing it right now, I think hiring managers are hesitant. The job market is just not as hot as everyone says.

I won’t go into my own personal history, but my experience is millennials now need bachelor degrees for any office job, AND experience. BA and experience might net you $30-$40k in an office job if you can be in the right place at the right time.
Programming isn't hot, software engineering is. It might just be how he's positioning himself or he's applying for the wrong type of job. It is also true that software engineering can be regional, so you might have to move to get a good job. You shouldn't be surprised if you need to apply to 400 jobs to get just 10 interviews and only 2 or 3 offers out of that. That's normal.

BSBHead
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:45 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by BSBHead » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: Healthcare administration.

I think one path in would be through a revenue cycle department of a hospital. They typically are involved in claims adjudication with patients/insurance companies and patient customer experience. It's typically a call center structure so fairly entry level, but it would provide a good background in insurance billing which basically very little of percent of the population really understands. Most of the other employees would not have a college degree, but you'd have to put your pride aside to get into the system. Another idea would be to look at a safety net hospital. They certainly pay lower than a comparably sized non profit or for profit, but you could get good experience. Another idea would be to keep your job and volunteer at a health policy non-profit for free. That would suck, but you could probably help with research.

Lastly, be mobile. I had to move away from my desired city to start my career only to move back, move away, and move back again. You're at a time in your life where that is much easier. It is very difficult to do so, when you have kids, etc.

OnTrack
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:16 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by OnTrack » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:38 am

investingdad wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:19 am
Unemployment rate for college grads is around 2.1% based on latest data. Getting a job may require:
The OP has a job, so he or she is part of the 97.9% of college grads in the work force with a job. The quoted statistic does not specify how many of those employed are working at jobs that don't require a degree.

stlutz
Posts: 5016
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by stlutz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:40 am

Whenever I hear the "it's who you know not what you know" advice, I always want to ask if they've actually hired anyone.

At my company I've hired several external candidates over the past few years. None of them were people I knew beforehand and none of them were referred by anyone I knew. They saw the posting on my megacorp's website and applied. HR filtered the resume and sent it along to me.

Bacchus01
Posts: 2537
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by Bacchus01 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:47 am

Engineer250 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:22 pm
I haven’t read all the replies and want to put more thought into a reply later, but I just wanted to say a few things.

A. The job market is not as “great” as the stats make it sound. Most new jobs have been in retail and fast food.

B. I agree it’s definitely who you know. And luck.

C. My experience with today’s job market is you better be already doing what they are going to hire you for and have more experience than they are hiring for, or better be someone’s kid.

D. This board is dominated by boomers who got their jobs with paper resumes and hand shakes at a time when the middle class job market was still booming. While I’m sure some are sympathetic and reasonable, expect a few old guys telling you to suck it up and don’t take it personally.

My husband went back to school for programming and got a Computer Science BS. He had an internship at a place he wanted to work. He graduates and is trying to get into that place. They lose a contract so they have a hiring freeze. Now it’s been more than six months since he graduated. He’s applied to every single entry level programming job in our county (and we are a good sized city). He had a few interviews, but no offers. News media would have you believe programming is so hot they will hire anyone. But because he’s not doing it right now, I think hiring managers are hesitant. The job market is just not as hot as everyone says.

I won’t go into my own personal history, but my experience is millennials now need bachelor degrees for any office job, AND experience. BA and experience might net you $30-$40k in an office job if you can be in the right place at the right time.
The data supports none of this. One experience does not equal the market.

User avatar
market timer
Posts: 6087
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:42 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by market timer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:30 am

jb1 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:21 pm
I do not know what to do anymore. Due to my hustle, I have 100k in a vanguard account, own a house in which roommates pay the mortgage, 15k in my bank account, however it would be nice to actually get a career now and enjoy my life.
I could be way off-base in my assessment--have only skimmed the thread--but you don't come across as someone who would thrive in a corporate environment. My mental image of you is a physical education teacher and soccer coach. Sounds like you are doing fine financially and have plenty of time to find a meaningful career. Is there nobody in your network in a line of business where you think you'd be a good fit?

smitcat
Posts: 3067
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by smitcat » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:46 am

jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:21 pm
SevenBridgesRoad wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:09 pm
jb1 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm

...Worse part is when it is 4:30 on a Friday and we are all done for the week (all shipments went out), we still need to sit and wait until 5. A bit depressing...

Maybe I am not being realistic, I just need to be patient.
Seriously? The worst part of your job, at age 28, is waiting from 4:30 to 5:00 to leave?

I have trouble believing you've received well over one hundred well-meaning responses, the misguided kindness of strangers, when what the adults in this room need to tell you: grow up, yes be patient, and understand what hard work really means, which is not suffering through the last 30 minutes until 5 PM. I'm not trying to be cruel. I'm the grizzled coach grabbing you and yelling, with spit, "Son!! What in the world do you think you are doing??!!" [edited by moderator oldcomputerguy]

Hopefully, you will learn what hard work really is, find a mentor who will be honest and direct like I am being without coddling, and you finally mature to be a grown man and become successful.
Haha "learn what hard work is". Does that explain how at age 28 I have 6 figures in a Vanguard account, 15k in savings, and a house without any help? Mind you while everyone was partying in college, I was working until 2am parking cars, reffing soccer on weekends while everyone was watching netflix and football, and reading while everyone was sitting on the couch. I think i know what hard work is, and I wouldnt go back to change it.

So yea, to be honest, after lifting 3k pounds of aluminum, on a friday id like to leave somewhat early, and enjoy my life, rather than sit and stare at a wall. Work life balance is a thing especially in this generation. Also unforutnately there are no benefits, and for a company of 5 people there wasnt even a "thank you" for xmas. How do you think that makes employees feel? As a soccer coach, I learn how to manage players. When they work their tails off, I be sure to cut it early by 10-15 minutes, and thank them for the hard work. They put a good shift in and deserve it. Little gestures like that, go a long way. Maybe its more so of a management problem

I have a math problem which does not make sense... the next line combined with a few others combine to make up the math issue....
"Haha "learn what hard work is". Does that explain how at age 28 I have 6 figures in a Vanguard account, 15k in savings, and a house without any help? Mind you while everyone was partying in college, I was working until 2am parking cars, reffing soccer on weekends while everyone was watching netflix and football, and reading while everyone was sitting on the couch. I think i know what hard work is, and I wouldnt go back to change it."
You are 28 , you never made more than $50K, never had any help, completed an undergrad and grad degree , saved over $100K and bought a home with no help. Maybe working for 5 years at $50K per year gross and all on your own does not add up.
How can that math work? What were the costs for the schools? What income was left each year after living on your own? How was it possible to buy a home with that income level? How can a home and $100K+ be saved in so few years with stated income? The math really is hard to figure out.

smitcat
Posts: 3067
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by smitcat » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:53 am

Engineer250 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:22 pm
I haven’t read all the replies and want to put more thought into a reply later, but I just wanted to say a few things.

A. The job market is not as “great” as the stats make it sound. Most new jobs have been in retail and fast food.

B. I agree it’s definitely who you know. And luck.

C. My experience with today’s job market is you better be already doing what they are going to hire you for and have more experience than they are hiring for, or better be someone’s kid.

D. This board is dominated by boomers who got their jobs with paper resumes and hand shakes at a time when the middle class job market was still booming. While I’m sure some are sympathetic and reasonable, expect a few old guys telling you to suck it up and don’t take it personally.

My husband went back to school for programming and got a Computer Science BS. He had an internship at a place he wanted to work. He graduates and is trying to get into that place. They lose a contract so they have a hiring freeze. Now it’s been more than six months since he graduated. He’s applied to every single entry level programming job in our county (and we are a good sized city). He had a few interviews, but no offers. News media would have you believe programming is so hot they will hire anyone. But because he’s not doing it right now, I think hiring managers are hesitant. The job market is just not as hot as everyone says.

I won’t go into my own personal history, but my experience is millennials now need bachelor degrees for any office job, AND experience. BA and experience might net you $30-$40k in an office job if you can be in the right place at the right time.
Maybe it depends upon where you are at but this is not nearly our experience nor our kids experiences both past and present...
- we never 'knew' anyone
- no jobs in retail
- we have secured new jobs in 'down' economic times
- our daughter and her friends are well employed with salaries at 2X your numbers and more
- our daughter actually has many job offers now in her primary field as well as many opportunities for side income from completely different areas

jpark1982
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:43 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by jpark1982 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:27 am

I didn't get my first real job until 28, working at a retail bank as a banker. Spent the next 9 years there before leaving to join a fintech company. Banks are always looking for sales people, consider working there, develop a sales mindset and potentially make 6 figures.

investingdad
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by investingdad » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:48 am

Engineer250 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:22 pm
I haven’t read all the replies and want to put more thought into a reply later, but I just wanted to say a few things.

A. The job market is not as “great” as the stats make it sound. Most new jobs have been in retail and fast food.

B. I agree it’s definitely who you know. And luck.

C. My experience with today’s job market is you better be already doing what they are going to hire you for and have more experience than they are hiring for, or better be someone’s kid.

D. This board is dominated by boomers who got their jobs with paper resumes and hand shakes at a time when the middle class job market was still booming. While I’m sure some are sympathetic and reasonable, expect a few old guys telling you to suck it up and don’t take it personally.

My husband went back to school for programming and got a Computer Science BS. He had an internship at a place he wanted to work. He graduates and is trying to get into that place. They lose a contract so they have a hiring freeze. Now it’s been more than six months since he graduated. He’s applied to every single entry level programming job in our county (and we are a good sized city). He had a few interviews, but no offers. News media would have you believe programming is so hot they will hire anyone. But because he’s not doing it right now, I think hiring managers are hesitant. The job market is just not as hot as everyone says.

I won’t go into my own personal history, but my experience is millennials now need bachelor degrees for any office job, AND experience. BA and experience might net you $30-$40k in an office job if you can be in the right place at the right time.
I'm 45 and Gen X. I'm also an engineer.

My first job out of college was through a temp agency. I didn't know anyone.

My second job as an engineer was a result of me looking around pending layoffs at first job. I didn't know anybody.

Third job as an engineer was through an employment agency, didn't know anybody. Company was bought and I went to new company. NEW company was bought and I was let go.

Fourth job as an engineer, I didn't know anybody. I'm still here.

I've never interviewed or hired anyone I know.

Getting an engineering degree wasn't lucky, it was hard. Getting an MBA part time at night after working all day wasn't lucky, it was exhausting. Getting laid off wasn't lucky, but having an MBA facilitated a short job search.

I wasn't somebody's kid. I wasn't hired with a wink or nod. I must be a rarity.

stoptothink
Posts: 5248
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by stoptothink » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:14 am

investingdad wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:48 am
Engineer250 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:22 pm
I haven’t read all the replies and want to put more thought into a reply later, but I just wanted to say a few things.

A. The job market is not as “great” as the stats make it sound. Most new jobs have been in retail and fast food.

B. I agree it’s definitely who you know. And luck.

C. My experience with today’s job market is you better be already doing what they are going to hire you for and have more experience than they are hiring for, or better be someone’s kid.

D. This board is dominated by boomers who got their jobs with paper resumes and hand shakes at a time when the middle class job market was still booming. While I’m sure some are sympathetic and reasonable, expect a few old guys telling you to suck it up and don’t take it personally.

My husband went back to school for programming and got a Computer Science BS. He had an internship at a place he wanted to work. He graduates and is trying to get into that place. They lose a contract so they have a hiring freeze. Now it’s been more than six months since he graduated. He’s applied to every single entry level programming job in our county (and we are a good sized city). He had a few interviews, but no offers. News media would have you believe programming is so hot they will hire anyone. But because he’s not doing it right now, I think hiring managers are hesitant. The job market is just not as hot as everyone says.

I won’t go into my own personal history, but my experience is millennials now need bachelor degrees for any office job, AND experience. BA and experience might net you $30-$40k in an office job if you can be in the right place at the right time.
I'm 45 and Gen X. I'm also an engineer.

My first job out of college was through a temp agency. I didn't know anyone.

My second job as an engineer was a result of me looking around pending layoffs at first job. I didn't know anybody.

Third job as an engineer was through an employment agency, didn't know anybody. Company was bought and I went to new company. NEW company was bought and I was let go.

Fourth job as an engineer, I didn't know anybody. I'm still here.

I've never interviewed or hired anyone I know.

Getting an engineering degree wasn't lucky, it was hard. Getting an MBA part time at night after working all day wasn't lucky, it was exhausting. Getting laid off wasn't lucky, but having an MBA facilitated a short job search.

I wasn't somebody's kid. I wasn't hired with a wink or nod. I must be a rarity.
I've never personally gotten a job because I knew somebody, but I have hired a lot of people because they knew somebody and a lot of people have gotten jobs because they knew me (in fact, it happened this morning). The power of networking is very real.

megabad
Posts: 1356
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:00 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by megabad » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:37 am

jb1 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:21 pm
Is it a matter of luck?
I think most honest folks will tell you that it can be a bit of luck, a bit of hard work, and a bit of who you know. Don't get down on yourself. You seem to have good work ethic which was somewhat rare when I was doing college recruiting. Based on your posts, it seems to me that your personality would be very well suited to a sales job. This would typically reward you via commissions and include some schedule freedom. You also seem to have some trouble getting past the application review phase.

Remember, use what you got:

1) Talk to you alma mater's career services and apply through them. Do not reveal your graduation date to potential employers. Selectively adjust your work history as well.

2) Go to alma mater's career fair and talk to as many folks as you can. Worst case, you can practice your interviewing skills. All of a sudden, you will be the one who "knows people".

3) Consider specializing your focus based on your background (not an expert here on your field, but something like sports medicine related to the soccer etc). Generalists usually stand out less than specialists.

4) Don't limit yourself to healthcare either (use the business/sales/soccer angle)

5) You are young and ambitious so have absolutely no geographical limitations. In fact, apply for jobs in unattractive places. These are typically lesser known rural areas. Fewer applicants = better chance for an interview.

Once you get a good basis of income/capital, the real estate investing opportunities will open up for you as well if you so desire, and this can quickly turn into a full time job. But you typically need another paid gig at first to help support you until you get your feet under you. However, your geographic limitations outside of a major urban area may not be conducive to a successful real estate business, so run the numbers before you dive in. Keep looking and keep your head up.

JoeRetire
Posts: 2138
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by JoeRetire » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:24 am

jb1 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:45 pm
Should I have a more positive attitude when hitting "send" on the computer screen? Facial recognition you think? I am not getting interviews, at all. I will gladly send you my resume if you pm me an email address.
If you aren't getting interviews at all, then you are applying for the wrong jobs. That's particularly true in the current economy.

CT-Scott
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:01 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by CT-Scott » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:38 pm

OP, I'd be interested in taking a look at your resume and could give you my 2 cents (in this thread, or privately). PM me.

Whenever you post in a forum asking for advice, be prepared to get it, and some of it will be completely off-base and offensive. If you don't have a thick skin, you probably don't want to be asking for advice in a public forum.

I read most of the replies, but skipped some. From what I've read, I didn't see enough specifics, but looking at your resume would help.

smitcat
Posts: 3067
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Bogleheads, why wont anyone hire me?

Post by smitcat » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:15 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:03 pm
Miguelito wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:38 am
Bacchus01 wrote: This nonsense that you MUST go to top schools has gotten out of hand.
In some cases there is truth behind it. If you are in an entry/mid-level job, getting any MBA will probably be worthwhile, particularly if it is an industry where an MBA is the next logical degree needed to get ahead, and especially when not in a major metro area.

If you already have a successful career but feel you want to make a change, it often takes an MBA from a top program to get you those lofty jobs that will make the monetary and time investment pay off.
Completely untrue.
I concur with Bacchus01

User avatar
ClevrChico
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Bogleheads, why won't anyone hire me?

Post by ClevrChico » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:23 pm

You may need to change your job search to a different region with different industries. Even searching 100 miles away can make a HUGE difference. I went from constant rejection to multiple offers just by doing this. (And this is why some areas have brain drain and others brain gain.)

It turns out my original search focused on employers that were very biased against local candidates. The new area was a much better fit.

Good luck!

Post Reply