ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

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nwffdiver
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by nwffdiver » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:34 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:48 pm
I think there is a pretty good argument that as your balance builds, only contribute to the employer match. It’s hard to pass up those matches.

However, in my case, they match 50% all the way up to the $19K number. At mid-40s, we have over $1M in pre-tax 401ks. I will have a pension of about $65k/year even if I stopped working now, but it keeps growing. Then combined soc security of $45k...we will have too much tax sheltered and end up with large RMDs. We almost have to retire early and start ROTH conversions.
My match is nowhere near that high, but with my pension we too are doing more Roth. My 457 doesn’t have an option for Roth, but half of my wife’s 401k goes to Roth. The pension really changes tax considerations in retirement.

4nwestsaylng
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:39 am

Would appreciate a reference site for this,I don’t know what i-ORP is,but I have to figure out whether to do any more Roth conversions.As single person,I got one in last year before turning 70,it was first retirement year,so had only FERS annuity of $20k,no SS,$25k other income,so did a $75k conversion,paid 2018 tax of $23k.

For 2018,first yr of SS,SS will be max at $39k,FERS at 20 k,and first RMD $33k,plus say $20k div/int,so am into the 24% bracket and Medicare IRMAA.

I need to figure whether to do some more Roth conversions annually to stay within 24% bracket,to gradually lower my tax deferred acct,or just leave as is.
Tax deferred is all TSP L-income (80% bd/20% Stk),taxable Acct and Roth equal amount to TSP, is 20bd/80 stk,so AA is 50/50.

Would I-ORP help me figure this out?
I don’t assume that in 2025 the rates will revert to old ones,they may well rise.Today’s 24% could go to 32% ,just look at entitlements and apparently unrestricted southern border entry.

Yet also see that paying tax for Roth conversions means that the funds used (out of taxable acct) to pay the tax are gone today,and that is an opportunity cost for converting.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts😊

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Admiral
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Admiral » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:43 am

4nwestsaylng wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:39 am
Would appreciate a reference site for this,I don’t know what i-ORP is,but I have to figure out whether to do any more Roth conversions.As single person,I got one in last year before turning 70,it was first retirement year,so had only FERS annuity of $20k,no SS,$25k other income,so did a $75k conversion,paid 2018 tax of $23k.

For 2018,first yr of SS,SS will be max at $39k,FERS at 20 k,and first RMD $33k,plus say $20k div/int,so am into the 24% bracket and Medicare IRMAA.

I need to figure whether to do some more Roth conversions annually to stay within 24% bracket,to gradually lower my tax deferred acct,or just leave as is.
Tax deferred is all TSP L-income (80% bd/20% Stk),taxable Acct and Roth equal amount to TSP, is 20bd/80 stk,so AA is 50/50.

Would I-ORP help me figure this out?
I don’t assume that in 2025 the rates will revert to old ones,they may well rise.Today’s 24% could go to 32% ,just look at entitlements and apparently unrestricted southern border entry.

Yet also see that paying tax for Roth conversions means that the funds used (out of taxable acct) to pay the tax are gone today,and that is an opportunity cost for converting.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts😊
Yes.

https://www.i-orp.com/bequest/index.html

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Admiral
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Admiral » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:55 am

dknightd wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:27 am
Admiral wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:20 am
dknightd wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:17 am
I don't understand those numbers, It looks like you plan to leave $1M to your heirs.
I put in $2m (current dollars). The reason for this is because the only ways (as per James Welch) to put a ceiling on disposable income in the tool is to enter a desired estate value at death. Otherwise it will fully maximize spending. It will likely be higher.
Honestly if you can plan to leave $2m, and still have enough to live comfortably. Why worry?
Edit: Likely i-orp is suggesting you put money into after tax so your heirs can take advantage of the increased basis they will see.
It is a fair point. It's not a bad problem to have. I'm not "worried." I'd just like to plan and save appropriately so I am not paying way more than than I need to later in life.

Also, if you read my OP, you will see there are two issues at play:
1) Can I save less? (If you see my other thread here: viewtopic.php?p=4484733) I am looking at some deferred home maintenance projects that I need to pay for.) So that is a factor.
2) Should I save the smaller amount in Roth and taxable (to the extent that I can do so, beyond the employer pre-tax contrib).

LeeMKE
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by LeeMKE » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:00 am

I have to figure out whether to do any more Roth conversions.As single person,I got one in last year before turning 70,
Maybe, but probably not.

This is why it is so important to run I-ORP while still in your 50s. You need time to make Roth conversions without raising your tax rate too much. From my understanding, once you reach 70, RMDs start and I don't know how much good (if any) can be done to smooth out taxes.
The mightiest Oak is just a nut who stayed the course.

letsgobobby
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:22 am

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Last edited by letsgobobby on Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bacchus01
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:52 am

letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:22 am
LeeMKE wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:44 am
+1 dknightd
Edit: Likely i-orp is suggesting you put money into after tax so your heirs can take advantage of the increased basis they will see.
I don't know this for sure, but it sounds likely to me.
This is a possibility. I ran into this dilemma with iORP as well. On the other hand, if I did not set a desired estate, it maximized my spending to a number far above my needs.
But that’s the goal of the program really. It’s not there to tell you if you can retire. It’s there to tell you how much you can spend and hit your longevity and estate goals. If the number it comes up with is much higher than you need, then it suggests you can retire. If not, then you should evaluate not retiring. It’s a fantastic tool.

Bacchus01
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:03 pm

nwffdiver wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:34 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:48 pm
I think there is a pretty good argument that as your balance builds, only contribute to the employer match. It’s hard to pass up those matches.

However, in my case, they match 50% all the way up to the $19K number. At mid-40s, we have over $1M in pre-tax 401ks. I will have a pension of about $65k/year even if I stopped working now, but it keeps growing. Then combined soc security of $45k...we will have too much tax sheltered and end up with large RMDs. We almost have to retire early and start ROTH conversions.
My match is nowhere near that high, but with my pension we too are doing more Roth. My 457 doesn’t have an option for Roth, but half of my wife’s 401k goes to Roth. The pension really changes tax considerations in retirement.
Our match is 50% up to 7%. It just happens that 7% puts me at or above $19k fortunately.

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Peter Foley
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Peter Foley » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:46 pm

anwestsaying said:
Would appreciate a reference site for this,I don’t know what i-ORP is,but I have to figure out whether to do any more Roth conversions.As single person,I got one in last year before turning 70,it was first retirement year,so had only FERS annuity of $20k,no SS,$25k other income,so did a $75k conversion,paid 2018 tax of $23k.
There are two retirement calculators that help ascertain the best approach (aka a good, thoughtful approach) to Roth conversions.

I-orp is one tool. It tends to favor maximizing spending.
The Retiree Portfolio Model is another tool. I have a slight preference for RPM although the output is a little more difficult to understand. Output is multiple tabs on an excel spreadsheet.

inbox788
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by inbox788 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:23 pm

LeeMKE wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:44 am
+1 dknightd
Edit: Likely i-orp is suggesting you put money into after tax so your heirs can take advantage of the increased basis they will see.
I don't know this for sure, but it sounds likely to me.
Doesn't that depend on the tax bracket of the heirs? If they're in 24% or lower, is it worth paying 24% to convert? Or are you comparing Roth to taxable? I'm still unclear on whether one should spend taxable or Roth first at start of retirement and whether to completely spend one down before going to the next or maintaining some balance between Roth and taxable. If you have 20 years of capital gains and you need to spend it, you pay taxes, but if it's used for inheritance, it gets the step up basis, but it's not easy to figure out which one ahead of time. And if the heirs are young, the stretch IRA if it's still around is very valuable and makes the borderline case tilt towards passing on tax deferred.

https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/ret ... ithdrawals

inbox788
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by inbox788 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:39 pm

Admiral wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:13 am
Her salary would fill up the lower brackets...almost to the top of 22%, making any significant conversions taxed at 24%. The same bracket we are in now. So, how to account for this? There's no way to do it, because ORP only models retirement contributions and withdrawals, not taxable income during working years and whether that stops for half of a married couple.
...
And, as to the AA issue, as noted (in that thread, by James Welch) it's not so easy to just shift stocks to bonds or vice versa among tax-favored accounts. If the amounts in Roth vs pre-tax are significantly unequal (which they are in my case), just adding 15-20k to Roth each year and nothing to tax advantaged is not going to move the needle much (and ESP if the employer contrib is pre-tax). This can only be accomplished through conversions, which are taxable events.
I'm doing some back of the envelope calculations that I plan to put in a plan and spreadsheet. Someone with 50k pension/annuity, 30k SS and 1M tax-deferred generates around 40k age 70, 100k age 90 RMD. You could just add salary for some years into such an income stream plan. I was counting on a large zone of indifference in the 22/24% bracket (little escape and little risk, so tax rate bound in retirement), and leaving maximum tax deferred for a stretch IRA, but considering the single filing tax brackets adds a wrinkle. Top of the 24% bracket for MFJ is 315k, while single is 157k. The 12% bracket ends at 77k and 38k taxable income or 101k and 50k if you add in the standard deductions. Any large capital gains or itemized deductions can complicate the outcome.

Anyway, this thread has been useful for me in recognizing the benefit of advancing more conversions in the 24% bracket earlier on to avoid the situation where one of us might file single and get past the 24% bracket in the future. It all depends on whether a significant amount of tax deferred can be converted before age 70 at a rate lower than 24%.

[I've got to learn more about RMD effects from IRA annuities and QLACs to see if their complications and costs are helpful or worth it; unless there's clear and compelling evidence, I'm guessing it's best to just avoid them
https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2015/05/26 ... 0313161854 ]

I'm barely able to consider 2 situations and come to a reasonable comparison and conclusion, but optimizing for a dozen variables is dizzying for me. And I can easily see the drawbacks, but sometimes have trouble spotting the benefits. Anyway, with regard to AA, being railed against all stocks in taxable and Roth and all bonds in tax deferred, the only decision you face is in what to do about tax deferred stocks. I think it makes the decision a little simpler. Invest RMD you don't use into taxable and figure out how much tax deferred to convert to Roth each year until you have to stop. If you don't ever convert enough to stop, the decision is made for you. And when to stop? When you start projecting 12% tax rates again (101k and 50k) including RMDs.

4nwestsaylng
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:57 pm

LeeMKE wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:00 am
I have to figure out whether to do any more Roth conversions.As single person,I got one in last year before turning 70,
Maybe, but probably not.

This is why it is so important to run I-ORP while still in your 50s. You need time to make Roth conversions without raising your tax rate too much. From my understanding, once you reach 70, RMDs start and I don't know how much good (if any) can be done to smooth out taxes.
The problem was that from age 55 until 67 my income was 250k and I was getting the match for TSP,so as single was already paying a lot of federal and state tax,Roth conversions would have been taxed at 32% at least.
I’ll do the numbers,maybe it is worthwhile to convert amounts within the 24% bracket,but only if I assume rates are going higher after 2025.I think they will.

Bacchus01
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Bacchus01 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:58 am

Peter Foley wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:46 pm
anwestsaying said:
Would appreciate a reference site for this,I don’t know what i-ORP is,but I have to figure out whether to do any more Roth conversions.As single person,I got one in last year before turning 70,it was first retirement year,so had only FERS annuity of $20k,no SS,$25k other income,so did a $75k conversion,paid 2018 tax of $23k.
There are two retirement calculators that help ascertain the best approach (aka a good, thoughtful approach) to Roth conversions.

I-orp is one tool. It tends to favor maximizing spending.
The Retiree Portfolio Model is another tool. I have a slight preference for RPM although the output is a little more difficult to understand. Output is multiple tabs on an excel spreadsheet.
The input is difficult too. I’ve tried several times and cannot inderstand all the input boxes.

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Admiral
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Admiral » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:32 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:58 am
Peter Foley wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:46 pm
anwestsaying said:
Would appreciate a reference site for this,I don’t know what i-ORP is,but I have to figure out whether to do any more Roth conversions.As single person,I got one in last year before turning 70,it was first retirement year,so had only FERS annuity of $20k,no SS,$25k other income,so did a $75k conversion,paid 2018 tax of $23k.
There are two retirement calculators that help ascertain the best approach (aka a good, thoughtful approach) to Roth conversions.

I-orp is one tool. It tends to favor maximizing spending.
The Retiree Portfolio Model is another tool. I have a slight preference for RPM although the output is a little more difficult to understand. Output is multiple tabs on an excel spreadsheet.
The input is difficult too. I’ve tried several times and cannot inderstand all the input boxes.
Right now I am really struggling with RPM (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97352&p=4492991#p4492991). I may give up soon if I can't get it to work.

I'm using a combination of Flexible Retirement Planner and i-ORP. FRP is a Monte Carlo simulator and it allows you to set retirement expenses, so that plus i-ORP's features on conversions is fairly useful.

LeeMKE
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by LeeMKE » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:17 am

I'm using a combination of Flexible Retirement Planner and i-ORP. FRP is a Monte Carlo simulator and it allows you to set retirement expenses, so that plus i-ORP's features on conversions is fairly useful.
Me too.

I’m using 3 tools each year for the first 7-10 years of retirement:
I-ORP : especially for the withdrawal table showing how much from tax deferred IRA, and tax free Roth.
Fidelity’s Retirement Income Planner : a Monte Carlo tool that I’ve been using for years.
Prime Harvesting (McClung): As one more approach that I know I can’t FU.

So far, the tools are pretty close, making the w/d decision easy. If one year they diverge, I’ll drop the outlier.

All three use a different path to the answer. So, when they agree, I figure I’m on safe ground.

And I understand each has their own assumptions, and I’m comfortable with the assumptions.

Finally, over time, I don’t want the challenge of revisiting too much minutea each year. Normally our faculties fade by age 70, so I’m making selections now that require modest inputs in the future so I can’t FU the results.

I spent many months working on this problem. I rejected several tools. The biggest problem I saw were tools that require many discrete inputs, that could dramatically change the output, and can be misunderstood when revisiting once a year. Those are dangerous in the scenario I’ve described. So, after trying out all of them, I passed. I want safety rather than control that could FU the outcome.
The mightiest Oak is just a nut who stayed the course.

ralph124cf
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by ralph124cf » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:57 pm

The ORP baked in assumption that tax rates will revert to 2017 levels after 2025 is driving the seemingly anomalous results. If the assumption turns out to be correct, then it looks like to me that ROTH and taxable is preferable to tax deferred for those years of lower than historic taxes. However future tax law is unknown, and we can't even discuss it on this forum.

I don't know if there is an option to change this assumption can be changed in ORP.

Ralph

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Wiggums
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Wiggums » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:13 pm

Admiral wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:20 am
dknightd wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:17 am
I don't understand those numbers, It looks like you plan to leave $1M to your heirs.
I put in $2m (current dollars). The reason for this is because the only ways (as per James Welch) to put a ceiling on disposable income in the tool is to enter a desired estate value at death. Otherwise it will fully maximize spending. It will likely be higher.
That is very good to know. Thank you for posting that info.

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TimeRunner
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by TimeRunner » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:18 pm

ralph124cf wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:57 pm
The ORP baked in assumption that tax rates will revert to 2017 levels after 2025 is driving the seemingly anomalous results. If the assumption turns out to be correct, then it looks like to me that ROTH and taxable is preferable to tax deferred for those years of lower than historic taxes. However future tax law is unknown, and we can't even discuss it on this forum.

I don't know if there is an option to change this assumption can be changed in ORP.
There isn't. Not related, but there is a switch for keeping Soc Security at same level as today, the default (box not checked) being that benefits won't be fully funded after 2035.
"Technology is cool, but you've got to use it as opposed to letting it use you." - Prince

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Wiggums
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Wiggums » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:23 pm

Admiral wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:18 am

My spouse will have a pension at my age 58, so if she retires we will live on that plus pre-tax distributions. However she will probably work into her 60s, and her salary will cover our expenses. Her FRA is my age 65 so we will have that additional income, if we don't want to wait until we are both 70 (which we probably will).
Welcome to my world. My wife won’t stop working either. I had no problem retiring. :-)

smitcat
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by smitcat » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:16 pm

ralph124cf wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:57 pm
The ORP baked in assumption that tax rates will revert to 2017 levels after 2025 is driving the seemingly anomalous results. If the assumption turns out to be correct, then it looks like to me that ROTH and taxable is preferable to tax deferred for those years of lower than historic taxes. However future tax law is unknown, and we can't even discuss it on this forum.

I don't know if there is an option to change this assumption can be changed in ORP.

Ralph
"I don't know if there is an option to change this assumption can be changed in ORP."
Check one box in IORP labeled SS redux in 2034 and the SS will not reduce to the lower levels (the default is a lower SS).

ByThePond
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by ByThePond » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:43 pm


Right now I am really struggling with RPM (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97352&p=4492991#p4492991). I may give up soon if I can't get it to work.

I'm using a combination of Flexible Retirement Planner and i-ORP. FRP is a Monte Carlo simulator and it allows you to set retirement expenses, so that plus i-ORP's features on conversions is fairly useful.
Did you use the macro to clear out the pre-filled fields? There are instructions on the Setup page, line 1, column G on how to do this. I found it was easier to enter my data without spurious, pre-loaded data throwing things off.
I agree it's a bear to set up, but the questions it answers are priceless. Good Luck.

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Admiral
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Admiral » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:02 pm

ByThePond wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:43 pm

Right now I am really struggling with RPM (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97352&p=4492991#p4492991). I may give up soon if I can't get it to work.

I'm using a combination of Flexible Retirement Planner and i-ORP. FRP is a Monte Carlo simulator and it allows you to set retirement expenses, so that plus i-ORP's features on conversions is fairly useful.
Did you use the macro to clear out the pre-filled fields? There are instructions on the Setup page, line 1, column G on how to do this. I found it was easier to enter my data without spurious, pre-loaded data throwing things off.
I agree it's a bear to set up, but the questions it answers are priceless. Good Luck.
I emailed the author and he was super helpful and immediately responsive. Have not taken the deep dive into all the sections (Inherited IRAs!) but now at least I'm understanding the input fields.

The section for INCOME where it says RETIREMENT INCOME is actually for CURRENT income (if you are still working and are trying to model the next, say, 40 years). That threw me off. He indicated he will change the nomenclature (or the instructions) for the next version.

Tdubs
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Tdubs » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:06 pm

Admiral wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:02 pm
ByThePond wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:43 pm

Right now I am really struggling with RPM (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97352&p=4492991#p4492991). I may give up soon if I can't get it to work.

I'm using a combination of Flexible Retirement Planner and i-ORP. FRP is a Monte Carlo simulator and it allows you to set retirement expenses, so that plus i-ORP's features on conversions is fairly useful.
Did you use the macro to clear out the pre-filled fields? There are instructions on the Setup page, line 1, column G on how to do this. I found it was easier to enter my data without spurious, pre-loaded data throwing things off.
I agree it's a bear to set up, but the questions it answers are priceless. Good Luck.
I emailed the author and he was super helpful and immediately responsive. Have not taken the deep dive into all the sections (Inherited IRAs!) but now at least I'm understanding the input fields.

The section for INCOME where it says RETIREMENT INCOME is actually for CURRENT income (if you are still working and are trying to model the next, say, 40 years). That threw me off. He indicated he will change the nomenclature (or the instructions) for the next version.
Good to know the author James Welch is still active, he was very helpful to me a year ago. Someone mentioned that he is getting on in years, I hope there is a way to keep the site available and free.

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Admiral
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by Admiral » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:20 pm

Tdubs wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:06 pm
Admiral wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:02 pm
ByThePond wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:43 pm

Right now I am really struggling with RPM (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97352&p=4492991#p4492991). I may give up soon if I can't get it to work.

I'm using a combination of Flexible Retirement Planner and i-ORP. FRP is a Monte Carlo simulator and it allows you to set retirement expenses, so that plus i-ORP's features on conversions is fairly useful.
Did you use the macro to clear out the pre-filled fields? There are instructions on the Setup page, line 1, column G on how to do this. I found it was easier to enter my data without spurious, pre-loaded data throwing things off.
I agree it's a bear to set up, but the questions it answers are priceless. Good Luck.
I emailed the author and he was super helpful and immediately responsive. Have not taken the deep dive into all the sections (Inherited IRAs!) but now at least I'm understanding the input fields.

The section for INCOME where it says RETIREMENT INCOME is actually for CURRENT income (if you are still working and are trying to model the next, say, 40 years). That threw me off. He indicated he will change the nomenclature (or the instructions) for the next version.
Good to know the author James Welch is still active, he was very helpful to me a year ago. Someone mentioned that he is getting on in years, I hope there is a way to keep the site available and free.
James Welch is the author of i-ORP. I was referring to author of RPM. However I have also corresponded with Mr. Welch.

ByThePond
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by ByThePond » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:12 am


The section for INCOME where it says RETIREMENT INCOME is actually for CURRENT income (if you are still working and are trying to model the next, say, 40 years). That threw me off. He indicated he will change the nomenclature (or the instructions) for the next version.
I worked out by trial and error that I could use the "other income" lines for current income, setting the appropriate ages. It wasn't intuitive.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: ORP says I should stop all pre-tax contribs

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:06 am

Wiggums wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:23 pm
Admiral wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:18 am
My spouse will have a pension at my age 58, so if she retires we will live on that plus pre-tax distributions. However she will probably work into her 60s, and her salary will cover our expenses. Her FRA is my age 65 so we will have that additional income, if we don't want to wait until we are both 70 (which we probably will).
Welcome to my world. My wife won’t stop working either. I had no problem retiring. :-)
The saving grace of this shared world is that, whatever dumb decisions I might make, we are insulated from their effects through continued spousal income. For example, planning to be resilient in the face of sequence of return risks is easier if your spouse is employed for 10 years after retirement was possible.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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