My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

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afan
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by afan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm

I got a free retirement plan from Vanguard, not through PAS.
It looked at my current allocation of funds (all cap weighted index for stock, some intermediate term muni bond fund) and did not recommend any active funds. Did not recommend international bonds either.

As I said, I find the service fine for transactions and paperwork. I love the way the cap weighted index funds are constructed and managed. I love the prices. The net cost of VTI is negative, considering lending revenue.

The advice is uninformed and useless. I have stubbornly continued to try it, about once every other year, wondering whether there are some topics on which they can be helpful.
So far, nada.

The last time I asked for thoughts on Social Security claiming strategies. I entered the PIA and ages of myself and spouse, our plans on how long to work, etc. The CFP did not seem to have looked at the information and just said spouse should claim as soon as possible. No indication of a calculation. Ignored my questions about life expectancy, or anything else.

Great financial products. Useless for financial advice. I use them for financial products and have been a very happy customer for a very long time. The financial advice part is vaporware.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

Topic Author
MOH
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by MOH » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:13 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:01 pm
MOH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:53 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:07 pm
MOH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:38 pm
Mr.BB wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:15 pm
The question for the OP's advisor (if he says he will put him in lower ER index funds) is why didn't you do this for me before?
I know the answer because I actually asked why we weren't just in index funds a few years back. The answer was that they believed a mix of index and carefully researched actively managed funds would give more performance.

Yes, I can hear the collective groans from all the Bogleheads reading this thread. :happy And I get it, especially after reading "The Three Fund Portfolio" and learning from this forum for a bit.

Again, if I was starting from the beginning, there is no doubt I would use a three fund portfolio. But, that hasn't been the route I've gone down for the past 14 years. So in either case--whether I stay with my advisor or switch to Vanguard PAS--there are some actively managed funds that I will be keeping to avoid big cap gains. So given that, I'm just trying to determine the best route forward.

Thanks!
At least until something like thirteen seconds ago, Vanguard's advisors also recommended a mix of index and active funds. So if you were at VG you'd likely be in a similar situation to where you are now. Your adviser wasn't exactly taking an anti-VG approach by using a mix of index and active, and just like with VG there may be some tax considerations to changing that for you at this point.
The recommended portfolio/asset allocation from Vanguard, if I were to move my assets, does not recommend purchasing any active funds. Only holding a portion of my current active funds and adding in more index fund investments. When I started the conversation with Vanguard, I expressed an interest in low cost, index funds.

I'm surprised to hear that Vanguard PAS would recommend active funds to potential investors. Was that your experience?
I don't use PAS but it's well established on the forum that Vanguard has, in the very recent past, advocated various mixes of index and active funds. The index-only recommendations are extremely recent, so unless you're a new customer, you would have been in those active funds for years and be in the same capital gains situation as with many other advisers. Vanguard's recommendations have really varied all over the map over the years, but sometimes we have short memories around here.

Just one example:

https://advisors.vanguard.com/VGApp/iip ... ivePassive
I didn't know that, thank you. So does Vanguard now primarily only recommend an index-only portfolio?

tibbitts
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by tibbitts » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:41 pm

MOH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:13 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:01 pm
MOH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:53 pm
tibbitts wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:07 pm
MOH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:38 pm


I know the answer because I actually asked why we weren't just in index funds a few years back. The answer was that they believed a mix of index and carefully researched actively managed funds would give more performance.

Yes, I can hear the collective groans from all the Bogleheads reading this thread. :happy And I get it, especially after reading "The Three Fund Portfolio" and learning from this forum for a bit.

Again, if I was starting from the beginning, there is no doubt I would use a three fund portfolio. But, that hasn't been the route I've gone down for the past 14 years. So in either case--whether I stay with my advisor or switch to Vanguard PAS--there are some actively managed funds that I will be keeping to avoid big cap gains. So given that, I'm just trying to determine the best route forward.

Thanks!
At least until something like thirteen seconds ago, Vanguard's advisors also recommended a mix of index and active funds. So if you were at VG you'd likely be in a similar situation to where you are now. Your adviser wasn't exactly taking an anti-VG approach by using a mix of index and active, and just like with VG there may be some tax considerations to changing that for you at this point.
The recommended portfolio/asset allocation from Vanguard, if I were to move my assets, does not recommend purchasing any active funds. Only holding a portion of my current active funds and adding in more index fund investments. When I started the conversation with Vanguard, I expressed an interest in low cost, index funds.

I'm surprised to hear that Vanguard PAS would recommend active funds to potential investors. Was that your experience?
I don't use PAS but it's well established on the forum that Vanguard has, in the very recent past, advocated various mixes of index and active funds. The index-only recommendations are extremely recent, so unless you're a new customer, you would have been in those active funds for years and be in the same capital gains situation as with many other advisers. Vanguard's recommendations have really varied all over the map over the years, but sometimes we have short memories around here.

Just one example:

https://advisors.vanguard.com/VGApp/iip ... ivePassive
I didn't know that, thank you. So does Vanguard now primarily only recommend an index-only portfolio?
It's hard to overstate the rapidity with which VG recommendations have changed in recent years, so "now" is a relative term, but judging by responses on the forum, it appears that way.

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JasonF
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by JasonF » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:35 pm

I have experience with Flagship and Flagship Select reps and can provide the following observations:

1. There's a reluctance to discuss/advise regarding more than the most basic of tax issues. The usual response is "consult with your tax advisor."
2. There's been an ongoing policy to not advise on assets held away from Vanguard. This pertains not only to traditional investment vehicles (e.g. mutual funds, individual stocks, etc...) but to other assets (real estate, business holdings, etc...). So if you have a complex set of circumstances it may not be a good fit. Or you may have to "bolt on" additional advisors to fill the gaps.
3. Similarly, estate planning will not get too into specifics.
4. I have no experience with their retirement planning offering, but as another poster noted, they were apparently not helpful when it came to fairly common issues (Roth conversions, Social Security claiming strategies, spending plans, etc...).

For the record, I have no experience with PAS, but imagine the level of service would be a rung or two below Flagship Select. Maybe the fair thing to do is consider PAS to be a robo advisor with call center support. Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to have a certain expectation level.

I think the sweet spot is to custody assets at a low cost provider (like Vanguard) and use an hourly advisor as needed. The up front cost may be higher than PAS to get your plan up and running but over time this arrangement should be much more cost effective than an ongoing AUM fee.

PQ12$
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by PQ12$ » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:20 pm

Hi - I recently moved all of our money from a 1% aum advisor who had me in .80% (average) expense funds so mine was an easy decision. I looked at PAS but they seem to always recommend some version of the 3-4 index fund so it didn't seem like I really needed them for much beyond helping with the tax implications of selling a bunch of higher cost funds with gains and moving into all index. Anyway thanks to this board I ended up doing it myself and it all worked out, but it was very time consuming and stressful for me to get it right.

Anyway - I'm new to this board and many here are absolutely "passionate" about reducing fees. I use that term to not incite their wrath. But you are paying low aum fees already and are in pretty low cost funds. If he is a good advisor and accountant who can help you not do something foolish in a downturn because you have a real relationship with him -- which you will not have, face to face etc. with your PAS, it might be worth staying right where you are. That might be the #1 reason to pay an advisor anything right now.

Topic Author
MOH
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by MOH » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:49 pm

JasonF wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:35 pm

I think the sweet spot is to custody assets at a low cost provider (like Vanguard) and use an hourly advisor as needed. The up front cost may be higher than PAS to get your plan up and running but over time this arrangement should be much more cost effective than an ongoing AUM fee.
This is an interesting option that I hadn't considered.

drzzzzz
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by drzzzzz » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:50 pm

MOH wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:45 pm
drzzzzz wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:06 pm
We have used Vanguard PAS and left them so I would really suggest that you talk with a Vanguard PAS advisor before leaving your current advisor whom you seem to be happy with. Also while we are not Flagship select we have reasonable assets with Vanguard and I find the advice I get from boglehead's is often much better and more accurate than what I get from a Vanguard flagship rep whom we have had for a long time. Our experience with Vanguard PAS is that they are not interested in offering tax advice if that is something that you are interested in and if you have a "complicated question" such as when to retire or do you have enough to retire, or how much to take out to live on, or should I do Roth conversions, etc, I am not sure they would be willing to make those recommendations either even if you are a Flagship select client or they might only offer to do so if you pay extra for it. As I recall they clearly say they do not provide tax related services or recommendations. I found their portfolio tax efficient (and similar to what you will find on here), but they had some foolish rules that they refused to budge on and we decided they were not in our best interest which led us to leave their services and just continuing to manage our finances in a boglehead manner (and save on their fees as well).
What were the foolish rules that they refused to budge on? Thanks.
The following were our issues starting with what was most important to us:

1. When we used them I asked about tax loss harvesting, but they only used average cost for shares rather than specific ID at that time (so I don't know how they can effectively tax loss harvest unless the entire position is at a loss). I don't know if they still use only average cost, but don't really think they want to do tax loss harvesting since it entails more work and watching the portfolio more closely.

2. We had some individual stocks with embedded gains from a prior advisor so we didn't want to sell and pay capital gains. They included these in the portfolio percentages to balance the account, but we separated those stocks out into a separate account since they really don't like to manage individual stocks (and I saw no need for them to do anything with the stocks since they really weren't going to be sold or traded).

3. They would only accept us as customers if we had a minimum percentage of international stock in the portfolio (we went with a smaller amount than they typically recommend, but likely higher than what I would have wanted - took their professional advice on this).

4. They included multiple bond funds including international bonds which might be great, but we weren't that interested in having international bondss (again took their professional advice on this).

5. It is not clear to me how balancing between accounts to maintain our agreed upon portfolio percentages was going to happen since they don't take personal tax situations into effect. Because of that I wanted input into any balancing to make sure it didn't adversely impact on us. They did talk about a new methodology that they had not yet implemented which I recall being something to minimize the taxable gain (but again it is not clear to me how to do that if not using specific ID - this is the issue that I spent countless hours on the phone with our flagship rep, our advisor, and our advisor's supervisor and offered numerous suggestions about how they could do this to keep me happy - didn't happen).

Topic Author
MOH
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by MOH » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:02 pm

PQ12$ wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:20 pm
Hi - I recently moved all of our money from a 1% aum advisor who had me in .80% (average) expense funds so mine was an easy decision. I looked at PAS but they seem to always recommend some version of the 3-4 index fund so it didn't seem like I really needed them for much beyond helping with the tax implications of selling a bunch of higher cost funds with gains and moving into all index. Anyway thanks to this board I ended up doing it myself and it all worked out, but it was very time consuming and stressful for me to get it right.

Anyway - I'm new to this board and many here are absolutely "passionate" about reducing fees. I use that term to not incite their wrath. But you are paying low aum fees already and are in pretty low cost funds. If he is a good advisor and accountant who can help you not do something foolish in a downturn because you have a real relationship with him -- which you will not have, face to face etc. with your PAS, it might be worth staying right where you are. That might be the #1 reason to pay an advisor anything right now.
Curious, when you looked at PAS and they were recommending a version of the 3-4 index fund portfolio, were they recommending you sell all of your current funds? Or keep a portion of them?

In the end, you did it yourself but it was time consuming and stressful to get right. That is exactly why I don't want to happen, hence considering PAS if I leave my advisor. I feel that I could create and manage a three fund portfolio, but trying to untangle the multi-fund portfolio that I currently have to get there is very daunting. Looking back, do you wish you had used an hourly fee advisor to help untangle and create the plan?

Nowizard
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by Nowizard » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:06 pm

I would be leery of the financial advice based on a thorough plan prepared about a decade ago, though we do have our assets, which we manage, primarily with Vanguard.

Tim

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unclescrooge
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by unclescrooge » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:58 pm

afan wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm
I got a free retirement plan from Vanguard, not through PAS.
It looked at my current allocation of funds (all cap weighted index for stock, some intermediate term muni bond fund) and did not recommend any active funds. Did not recommend international bonds either.

As I said, I find the service fine for transactions and paperwork. I love the way the cap weighted index funds are constructed and managed. I love the prices. The net cost of VTI is negative, considering lending revenue.

The advice is uninformed and useless. I have stubbornly continued to try it, about once every other year, wondering whether there are some topics on which they can be helpful.
So far, nada.

The last time I asked for thoughts on Social Security claiming strategies. I entered the PIA and ages of myself and spouse, our plans on how long to work, etc. The CFP did not seem to have looked at the information and just said spouse should claim as soon as possible. No indication of a calculation. Ignored my questions about life expectancy, or anything else.

Great financial products. Useless for financial advice. I use them for financial products and have been a very happy customer for a very long time. The financial advice part is vaporware.
Each vanguard adviser has 1,100 clients. What sort of personalization do you expect?

They can only afford to offer the most generic one-size-fits-all advice.

It's the Walmart model. If you want customization you're not going to be happy.

pkcrafter
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by pkcrafter » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:00 pm

MOH, are you with a DFA advisor?

Would you mind listing the assets in your taxable account, including tickers. That will give us some insight into your advisor’s style.

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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BL
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by BL » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:32 am

I don't think you should switch until you are totally sure that is what you want to do. You alone must decide if the extra value you receive is worth the cost.

GmanJeff
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by GmanJeff » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:56 am

afan wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm

The last time I asked for thoughts on Social Security claiming strategies. I entered the PIA and ages of myself and spouse, our plans on how long to work, etc. The CFP did not seem to have looked at the information and just said spouse should claim as soon as possible. No indication of a calculation. Ignored my questions about life expectancy, or anything else.
When I inquired about SS claiming strategies, my advisor asked me for relevant information and then promptly prepared and sent me a helpful analysis and recommendation generated by the enterprise version of the Social Security Solutions tool (https://www.socialsecuritysolutions.com/), and was prepared to address any questions I had about the report.

From this, it would seem that PAS is able to help some clients more than others, although I don't know whether the variables involve the size of the account being managed, the inclinations and/or skills of the individual advisor, the clarity of the request from the client, or others.

dbr
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by dbr » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:02 am

GmanJeff wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:56 am
afan wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm

The last time I asked for thoughts on Social Security claiming strategies. I entered the PIA and ages of myself and spouse, our plans on how long to work, etc. The CFP did not seem to have looked at the information and just said spouse should claim as soon as possible. No indication of a calculation. Ignored my questions about life expectancy, or anything else.
When I inquired about SS claiming strategies, my advisor asked me for relevant information and then promptly prepared and sent me a helpful analysis and recommendation generated by the enterprise version of the Social Security Solutions tool (https://www.socialsecuritysolutions.com/), and was prepared to address any questions I had about the report.

From this, it would seem that PAS is able to help some clients more than others, although I don't know whether the variables involve the size of the account being managed, the inclinations and/or skills of the individual advisor, the clarity of the request from the client, or others.
A person should be able to know in advance what he is paying for. I had the impression VPAS did not advise on things such as SS claiming, but I also don't know where there is a reliable detailed description of exactly what the service is.

GmanJeff
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by GmanJeff » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:02 am

drzzzzz wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:50 pm

1. When we used them I asked about tax loss harvesting, but they only used average cost for shares rather than specific ID at that time (so I don't know how they can effectively tax loss harvest unless the entire position is at a loss). I don't know if they still use only average cost, but don't really think they want to do tax loss harvesting since it entails more work and watching the portfolio more closely.
My advisor identified tax loss harvesting opportunities for me last year and ensured related sales were made using the specific ID method, no problem at all.

I'd conclude from this that there is no corporate policy or practice inhibiting tax loss harvesting.

PQ12$
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by PQ12$ » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:40 am

[/quote]
Curious, when you looked at PAS and they were recommending a version of the 3-4 index fund portfolio, were they recommending you sell all of your current funds? Or keep a portion of them?

In the end, you did it yourself but it was time consuming and stressful to get right. That is exactly why I don't want to happen, hence considering PAS if I leave my advisor. I feel that I could create and manage a three fund portfolio, but trying to untangle the multi-fund portfolio that I currently have to get there is very daunting. Looking back, do you wish you had used an hourly fee advisor to help untangle and create the plan?
[/quote]

I would have used an hourly fee advisor to help but they are a mythic beast, kind of like unicorns. Lots of people bring them up here but I couldn't find one, and was told by an advisor friend that nobody any good can/will work that way and make a living. I am in Boston area and they are probably right.

I was in the typical 17 fund taxable acct.the AUM advisor puts you in, had around $1.3 million. PAS, and everybody on this board advised me to do a "transfer in kind" asset/fund transfer from my former adviser to Vanguard, and then we liquidated all 17 holdings and went into Vanguard 3-4 funds. it took me 300 hours of research, reading the books you have read, etc. to get comfortable enough to do this and in the end was the simplest thing I have ever done. But to get me confident and secure in doing it, which is really what we are all after (and usually pay "our guy" for) took me a long time. The asset transfer went fine, and the only complication in selling $1.3 mil in assorted funds is the cap gains/income you throw off because of the sale. I had a large previous loss that negated all of that, and this board was helpful in making sure I got thru unscathed and with a very small tax bill.

Based on your posts thus far it is hard to give you advice because we don't really know how complicated your finances are. My "guy" was a triple threat -- a CPA, lawyer and registered investment advisor. That's a lot of potential advice I could ping him for and the 1 % aum fee was worth it for a long time. I'd send a quick email about something relating to my company stock, or should I buy a rental property, etc. and I I always could count on his expert counsel being there. But when I left work I realized my needs had become very simple and the weakest part of his game was the financial planning -- he was basically getting $20K to over-steer my portfolio (too many funds) and spend a total of 4-5 hours per year doing it. It was hard to fire him for alot of reasons, and it sounds like you have concerns about that moment too.

My sense is you are in a kind of catch 22. You have had the Bogle epiphany and realize simple, cheaper is better. You are convicted of that idea and won't be able to shake it. But you aren't sure how to make the move and have great trepidation doing it yourself.

My advice is this: First, commit to relaxing and do nothing for the next 3-6 months. Commit to reading, listening and inquiring. Put your whole problem on this board in the format they suggest and see what comes back -- There are so many brilliant finance minds you will get better/as good advice here than from any $ advisor. It'll be up to you, over time, to decide whose advice you will take. This thing you want to do sounds like rocket science but isn't when you have spent enough time studying the rockets. Spending this time is the only way you will get to "peace" in this area of your life, which is where you need to be. It can't be rushed, so take your time.

afan
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by afan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:42 pm

GmanJeff wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:56 am
afan wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm

The last time I asked for thoughts on Social Security claiming strategies. I entered the PIA and ages of myself and spouse, our plans on how long to work, etc. The CFP did not seem to have looked at the information and just said spouse should claim as soon as possible. No indication of a calculation. Ignored my questions about life expectancy, or anything else.
When I inquired about SS claiming strategies, my advisor asked me for relevant information and then promptly prepared and sent me a helpful analysis and recommendation generated by the enterprise version of the Social Security Solutions tool (https://www.socialsecuritysolutions.com/), and was prepared to address any questions I had about the report.

From this, it would seem that PAS is able to help some clients more than others, although I don't know whether the variables involve the size of the account being managed, the inclinations and/or skills of the individual advisor, the clarity of the request from the client, or others.
Very nice. Maybe I will try again.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

Topic Author
MOH
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by MOH » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:31 pm

PQ12$ wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:40 am
Curious, when you looked at PAS and they were recommending a version of the 3-4 index fund portfolio, were they recommending you sell all of your current funds? Or keep a portion of them?

In the end, you did it yourself but it was time consuming and stressful to get right. That is exactly why I don't want to happen, hence considering PAS if I leave my advisor. I feel that I could create and manage a three fund portfolio, but trying to untangle the multi-fund portfolio that I currently have to get there is very daunting. Looking back, do you wish you had used an hourly fee advisor to help untangle and create the plan?
[/quote]

I would have used an hourly fee advisor to help but they are a mythic beast, kind of like unicorns. Lots of people bring them up here but I couldn't find one, and was told by an advisor friend that nobody any good can/will work that way and make a living. I am in Boston area and they are probably right.

I was in the typical 17 fund taxable acct.the AUM advisor puts you in, had around $1.3 million. PAS, and everybody on this board advised me to do a "transfer in kind" asset/fund transfer from my former adviser to Vanguard, and then we liquidated all 17 holdings and went into Vanguard 3-4 funds. it took me 300 hours of research, reading the books you have read, etc. to get comfortable enough to do this and in the end was the simplest thing I have ever done. But to get me confident and secure in doing it, which is really what we are all after (and usually pay "our guy" for) took me a long time. The asset transfer went fine, and the only complication in selling $1.3 mil in assorted funds is the cap gains/income you throw off because of the sale. I had a large previous loss that negated all of that, and this board was helpful in making sure I got thru unscathed and with a very small tax bill.

Based on your posts thus far it is hard to give you advice because we don't really know how complicated your finances are. My "guy" was a triple threat -- a CPA, lawyer and registered investment advisor. That's a lot of potential advice I could ping him for and the 1 % aum fee was worth it for a long time. I'd send a quick email about something relating to my company stock, or should I buy a rental property, etc. and I I always could count on his expert counsel being there. But when I left work I realized my needs had become very simple and the weakest part of his game was the financial planning -- he was basically getting $20K to over-steer my portfolio (too many funds) and spend a total of 4-5 hours per year doing it. It was hard to fire him for alot of reasons, and it sounds like you have concerns about that moment too.

My sense is you are in a kind of catch 22. You have had the Bogle epiphany and realize simple, cheaper is better. You are convicted of that idea and won't be able to shake it. But you aren't sure how to make the move and have great trepidation doing it yourself.

My advice is this: First, commit to relaxing and do nothing for the next 3-6 months. Commit to reading, listening and inquiring. Put your whole problem on this board in the format they suggest and see what comes back -- There are so many brilliant finance minds you will get better/as good advice here than from any $ advisor. It'll be up to you, over time, to decide whose advice you will take. This thing you want to do sounds like rocket science but isn't when you have spent enough time studying the rockets. Spending this time is the only way you will get to "peace" in this area of your life, which is where you need to be. It can't be rushed, so take your time.
[/quote]

The situation you were in is similar to mine in many ways. And the catch 22 you mention sums it all up exactly. The idea of hiring a hourly fee financial planner to help me untangle my funds ad reallocate my portfolio is interesting. When I search for hourly fee financial planners in NYC, names do come up.

Has anyone on the forum had any experience with any hourly fee financial planners in NYC or could recommend one? It might be worth it to have an initial consultation.

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JasonF
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by JasonF » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:34 pm

XYPN and Garrett Planning Network have scores of hourly-based CFP's on their platform.

afan
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by afan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:41 pm

Your advisor need not be in the city or state where you live. You answer their questions, provide the numbers and they generate advice. No need to meet face to face. In fact, the standard social requirements would make the information transfer slower for an in person meeting. Paying by the hour, you want efficiency.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

drzzzzz
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Re: My advisor VS Vanguard's PAS

Post by drzzzzz » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:02 pm

GmanJeff wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:02 am
drzzzzz wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:50 pm

1. When we used them I asked about tax loss harvesting, but they only used average cost for shares rather than specific ID at that time (so I don't know how they can effectively tax loss harvest unless the entire position is at a loss). I don't know if they still use only average cost, but don't really think they want to do tax loss harvesting since it entails more work and watching the portfolio more closely.
My advisor identified tax loss harvesting opportunities for me last year and ensured related sales were made using the specific ID method, no problem at all.

I'd conclude from this that there is no corporate policy or practice inhibiting tax loss harvesting.
I am glad that worked out for you, but per the most recent Vanguard PAS brochure terms from March 29, 2019 they seem to use something called MinTax which is still not specific identification. From their brochure -
This paragraph regarding MinTax cost basis method applies to those clients who have enrolled in the ongoing advised service. Our initial financial plan will use average cost as its cost basis method to estimate gains and losses potentially realized due to implementation. Once you’ve accepted the terms of the financial plan and are enrolled in the ongoing advised service, we’ll use the MinTax cost basis method in performing the necessary transactions within your taxable accounts to construct your Portfolio and on an ongoing basis for all securities held in your taxable accounts in the Portfolio unless you affirmatively opt out of such method. If you affirmatively opt out of MinTax, we will continue to use average cost as the cost basis method in calculating estimated gains and losses. The MinTax cost basis method is generally designed to minimize tax impact and lower an individual’s tax burden by identifying selective units or quantities, also referred to as lots, of securities to sell in any sale transaction (including rebalancing) based on specific ordering rules. In many cases, the MinTax cost basis method will minimize the tax impact to you of a transaction but may not do so in every case.

And their website explaining MinTax states the following:
MinTax - Shares are sold with the intention of minimizing tax. Priority is given to short term losses over long term losses and long term gains over short term gains.

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