Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

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Valuethinker
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Valuethinker » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:19 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:56 pm
Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:38 am
Lots of headlines getting this far, but the next part is really, really difficult. WayMo (Google?) is supposed to be well ahead of anyone else, yet also as I understand it has become notably more cautious in its pronouncements.

The company that would take the risk, I think, is more likely Amazon. That line by Jeff Bezos "this company has many far more expensive mistakes yet to make" (paraphrase, when writing off the Kindle Fire phone). Uber felt like hypeware in a hyped company. Tesla is a massively hyped company and there were comments that the risk Musk was running describing its AV features was just huge - that the technology just cannot do that.
Based on recent actions with legal and financial liability repercussions (particularly involving the SEC), I think the corporate leadership of Google and Amazon have very different understandings of legal obligations and the potential to be found negligent for business and engineering decisions than the effectively singular leadership of Tesla does.

Working in the aerospace industry, and closely following the news on the investigation of the two recent 737 crashes, I'm astounded at the casual approach being taken in pushing self-driving features into cars.

It's been progressively ingrained into me that certification standards are not a hurdle to be avoided if possible or cleared with the minimum effort necessary, but in addition to their primary purpose of protecting the customer, also a form protection for manufacturer to ensure they have made a reasonable effort to make their product safe.

I think many in the automotive industry will be a lot more comfortable introducing increasingly capable self-driving features into widespread use when there is a certification standard for taking on some of the responsibilities currently regulated by driver licensing.
Agree re safety standards & aerospace. A friend works on a system for the ISS, and the safety consciousness is extreme. Perhaps the nuclear and chemical industries have similar levels of concern (or should do) in their plants.

You could argue the existing car guidance mechanism, the human being, is highly flawed. It's as if we drive jet fighters, but with piloting skills we picked up from fairground rides on barnstormers' biplanes in the 1920s.

What I believe is most dangerous is what Tesla seems to be introducing. That is: systems which are not fully autonomous, but which allow the driver to drift out of full alert mode.

That is the worst combination - trusting in automatic systems that, in fact, are not designed for the level of complexity they are facing. Shutting the pilot down, in some sense, without the compensating system intelligence.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by 4nursebee » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:31 am

madbrain wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:30 am
If OP didn't pull the trigger yet, he missed his chance.
The Tesla model 3 is no longer $35k.

https://electrek.co/2019/04/11/telsa-35000-model-3/
The above info is a lie, the 35K car is still available "for the time being" as stated in the article.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by DanMahowny » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:34 am

The $35k model was just another lie. I knew it.
Funding secured

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:42 am

4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:31 am

The above info is a lie, the 35K car is still available "for the time being" as stated in the article.
OK. You can't find a 35K Model 3 on Tesla's website anymore to order. It is $39,500 now in most basic form. It was only kind of rolled out a few weeks ago. The car essentially never existed except for a tiny amount of time. So if you are enough of a fanboy to know that it can allegedly be ordered if you call someone or visit an operational store (god knows what is going on with most of their "sales" locations) then you may be able to get one at some time in the future..."for the time being." This is a far cry from the 35k announcement 3 years ago. Indefensible like many of Tesla's practices but for some reason the faithful continue to defend. We all worship something I suppose.

I guess on the bright side is that the AP is now a bit cheaper but forced on you. This is, in effect, yet another price cut because demand is drying up rapidly as the brand gets destroyed. The irony is that when Musk announced the 35k Model 3 he said he had to close stores to be able to sell it. Now you apparently have to go to a store that still remains open to actually, possibly buy one. :annoyed

In the end, this was all just a BAIT & SWITCH.
Last edited by matjen on Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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ssquared87
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by ssquared87 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:48 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:27 pm
researcher wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:52 am
OKC wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:48 am
I took delivery of a Model 3 a couple weeks ago and my family and I are amazed.
Overall, the Model 3 is a terrific vehicle.

...getting in and out of the Model 3 isn't easy for me (I'm 6'4", 240 lbs)
The Model 3 doesn't provide you the ability to easily get in/out of the car, which seems like a basic requirement for any vehicle.

Yet you are "amazed" at the car and think it is a "terrific" vehicle?
Sports cars are not easy entry nor exit. Not everything is built like an SUV.

Mind SUVs aren't great access for some sizes of people.
A model 3 isn’t a sports car

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4nursebee
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by 4nursebee » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:04 am

matjen wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:42 am
4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:31 am

The above info is a lie, the 35K car is still available "for the time being" as stated in the article.
OK. You can't find a 35K Model 3 on Tesla's website anymore to order. It is $39,500 now in most basic form. It was only kind of rolled out a few weeks ago. The car essentially never existed except for a tiny amount of time. So if you are enough of a fanboy to know that it can allegedly be ordered if you call someone or visit an operational store (god knows what is going on with most of their "sales" locations) then you may be able to get one at some time in the future..."for the time being." This is a far cry from the 35k announcement 3 years ago. Indefensible like many of Tesla's practices but for some reason the faithful continue to defend. We all worship something I suppose.

I guess on the bright side is that the AP is now a bit cheaper but forced on you. This is, in effect, yet another price cut because demand is drying up rapidly as the brand gets destroyed. The irony is that when Musk announced the 35k Model 3 he said he had to close stores to be able to sell it. Now you apparently have to go to a store that still remains open to actually, possibly buy one. :annoyed

In the end, this was all just a BAIT & SWITCH.
The 35K version can be purchased by visiting either a store or making a phone call. This sounds a lot like traditional auto sales model. I bet it can still be done with much less time invested than other auto dealerships.
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Valuethinker
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Valuethinker » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:16 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:48 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:27 pm
researcher wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:52 am
OKC wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:48 am
I took delivery of a Model 3 a couple weeks ago and my family and I are amazed.
Overall, the Model 3 is a terrific vehicle.

...getting in and out of the Model 3 isn't easy for me (I'm 6'4", 240 lbs)
The Model 3 doesn't provide you the ability to easily get in/out of the car, which seems like a basic requirement for any vehicle.

Yet you are "amazed" at the car and think it is a "terrific" vehicle?
Sports cars are not easy entry nor exit. Not everything is built like an SUV.

Mind SUVs aren't great access for some sizes of people.
A model 3 isn’t a sports car
But you said "any vehicle"?

People buy sports cars and I am amazed they can squeeze themselves in or out. I am thinking Lotus, Aston Martin etc. (The old body form of the Mercedes A Class was actually the easiest thing to get in and out of - essentially a minivan).

People drive sports cars for reasons that are not about the convenience of the body form (AFAIK there isn't any such convenience). A Tesla Model 3 will perform like a sports car?

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:30 am

4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:04 am

The 35K version can be purchased by visiting either a store or making a phone call. This sounds a lot like traditional auto sales model. I bet it can still be done with much less time invested than other auto dealerships.
Except for the parts where you can't test drive the car you want, you can't sit in the car you want, you can't see the car you want, you can drive away in the car you want that day, and then, of course, there is the wait and hoping it is delivered without scratches and major defects. There is nothing about this or much of Tesla that is any easier. Every other week they are changing pricing, options, service plans, etc. It's shadier than a used car lot.
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ssquared87
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by ssquared87 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:51 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:16 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:48 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:27 pm
researcher wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:52 am
OKC wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:48 am
I took delivery of a Model 3 a couple weeks ago and my family and I are amazed.
Overall, the Model 3 is a terrific vehicle.

...getting in and out of the Model 3 isn't easy for me (I'm 6'4", 240 lbs)
The Model 3 doesn't provide you the ability to easily get in/out of the car, which seems like a basic requirement for any vehicle.

Yet you are "amazed" at the car and think it is a "terrific" vehicle?
Sports cars are not easy entry nor exit. Not everything is built like an SUV.

Mind SUVs aren't great access for some sizes of people.
A model 3 isn’t a sports car
But you said "any vehicle"?

People buy sports cars and I am amazed they can squeeze themselves in or out. I am thinking Lotus, Aston Martin etc. (The old body form of the Mercedes A Class was actually the easiest thing to get in and out of - essentially a minivan).

People drive sports cars for reasons that are not about the convenience of the body form (AFAIK there isn't any such convenience). A Tesla Model 3 will perform like a sports car?
I didn’t say “any vehicle” that was another poster. I just said I wouldn’t classify the Tesla as a sports car. Being fast in a straight line doesn’t make it a sports car in my book. Understood the handling is pretty good for a car it’s size, but it’s no Porsche Cayman.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by 4nursebee » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:51 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:16 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:48 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:27 pm
researcher wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:52 am


The Model 3 doesn't provide you the ability to easily get in/out of the car, which seems like a basic requirement for any vehicle.

Yet you are "amazed" at the car and think it is a "terrific" vehicle?
Sports cars are not easy entry nor exit. Not everything is built like an SUV.

Mind SUVs aren't great access for some sizes of people.
A model 3 isn’t a sports car
But you said "any vehicle"?

People buy sports cars and I am amazed they can squeeze themselves in or out. I am thinking Lotus, Aston Martin etc. (The old body form of the Mercedes A Class was actually the easiest thing to get in and out of - essentially a minivan).

People drive sports cars for reasons that are not about the convenience of the body form (AFAIK there isn't any such convenience). A Tesla Model 3 will perform like a sports car?
I didn’t say “any vehicle” that was another poster. I just said I wouldn’t classify the Tesla as a sports car. Being fast in a straight line doesn’t make it a sports car in my book. Understood the handling is pretty good for a car it’s size, but it’s no Porsche Cayman.
Tesla 3 vs Porsche Cayman link follows, sounds like it is a lot like a Porsche Cayman: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... rrari-458/

It even gets compared to one of the fastest Ferraris ever
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ssquared87
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by ssquared87 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:32 am

4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:51 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:16 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:48 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:27 pm


Sports cars are not easy entry nor exit. Not everything is built like an SUV.

Mind SUVs aren't great access for some sizes of people.
A model 3 isn’t a sports car
But you said "any vehicle"?

People buy sports cars and I am amazed they can squeeze themselves in or out. I am thinking Lotus, Aston Martin etc. (The old body form of the Mercedes A Class was actually the easiest thing to get in and out of - essentially a minivan).

People drive sports cars for reasons that are not about the convenience of the body form (AFAIK there isn't any such convenience). A Tesla Model 3 will perform like a sports car?
I didn’t say “any vehicle” that was another poster. I just said I wouldn’t classify the Tesla as a sports car. Being fast in a straight line doesn’t make it a sports car in my book. Understood the handling is pretty good for a car it’s size, but it’s no Porsche Cayman.
Tesla 3 vs Porsche Cayman link follows, sounds like it is a lot like a Porsche Cayman: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... rrari-458/

It even gets compared to one of the fastest Ferraris ever
Willow springs is not that technical of a track. The turns are mostly sweepers and it has minimal elevation and camber changes. The average speed at Willow is quite high compared to most tracks. On a track like this torque and horsepower are more important than handling and balance although those items are important.

Also, the Tesla could only maintain max performance for 2-3 laps. After this performance degrades quite a bit, which also happens with ICE cars, but not to the same degree. Run the Tesla 3 with the Ferrari 458 (which is a 10 year old model by the way...has been succeeded by the more potent and more capable 488) for 10 laps then see which one comes out ahead.

On a more technical course with tighter turns I’m sure the Tesla would do well but it would lose its edge.

I like how the Model 3 drives, but I’ll take a cayman even if it’s significantly slower as it’s just more fun to drive.
Last edited by ssquared87 on Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by researcher » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:37 am

4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 am
Tesla 3 vs Porsche Cayman link follows, sounds like it is a lot like a Porsche Cayman: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... rrari-458/

It even gets compared to one of the fastest Ferraris ever
Here is C&D's track testing of a Model S at VIR that didn't go too well...

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a ... 6-feature/

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4nursebee
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by 4nursebee » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:59 am

researcher wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:37 am
4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 am
Tesla 3 vs Porsche Cayman link follows, sounds like it is a lot like a Porsche Cayman: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... rrari-458/

It even gets compared to one of the fastest Ferraris ever
Here is C&D's track testing of a Model S at VIR that didn't go too well...

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a ... 6-feature/
Ok, sure, not that well. But it is not a model 3.
Of course, none of the cars tested on these tracks is the 35K version.

I expect to own an electric car someday. I would not be willing to buy the 35K model 3.
I still thin it is an exciting car but I find great value in the FSD, AP, and other similar safety features.
TACC required.
Lane departure warning a great feature.
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Thesaints » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:03 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:31 am
madbrain wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:30 am
If OP didn't pull the trigger yet, he missed his chance.
The Tesla model 3 is no longer $35k.

https://electrek.co/2019/04/11/telsa-35000-model-3/
The above info is a lie, the 35K car is still available "for the time being" as stated in the article.
The lie is more in calling it “the 35k”. It is that much only after refunds and gas savings. Kind of calling a 45k BMW a 42k, if you don’t drive it that much.

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4nursebee
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by 4nursebee » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:36 am

This interview suggests to me that the 35K car ought not be the one that is purchased. AI, Musk, MIT, AP, FSD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:31 am

Thesaints wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:03 pm
4nursebee wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:31 am
madbrain wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:30 am
If OP didn't pull the trigger yet, he missed his chance.
The Tesla model 3 is no longer $35k.

https://electrek.co/2019/04/11/telsa-35000-model-3/
The above info is a lie, the 35K car is still available "for the time being" as stated in the article.
The lie is more in calling it “the 35k”. It is that much only after refunds and gas savings. Kind of calling a 45k BMW a 42k, if you don’t drive it that much.
Yes. If you go to their website to order the car, I think that whole part is nonsense. It makes generic assumptions like how much you will drive and how much you pay for electricity.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by sunny_socal » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:24 am

Tesla ends online orders of Model 3:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/busi ... del-3.html

Run away!

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by nbseer » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:58 am

Another issue with Tesla could be getting repairs. With questionable status of Tesla dealerships, where do you take your vehicle when something goes wrong. Hearing stories of it taking weeks, even months to get a problem fixed.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by sc9182 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:56 am

There are always issues with any companies long term viability, and/or their stock performance. That aside,

For every typical car sold, possibly there are nearly 40 other cars/vehicles sold. Indirectly coming to wrong statistical conclusion that - there are 40 detractors against 1. This type of “detractor” stat is akin to: say someone bought AMZN, but there are 100k (guess) other trades/buyers that buy some other stock/index. Don’t conclude wrongly that for every AMZN buyer there are 100k detractors. Market place is much much bigger than any single maker or stock to fully own/conquer.

Tesla mode 3 is a good car, and at $35k (on phone or stores) - in-addiction with Federal and/or State or Utility rebates, it’s priced much better than what the MSRP indicates.

Now, the projected gas savings may exceed or not depending on miles driven, and electricity vs gas cost. Now that gas is still about $3, everybody happy to take a swipe at projected savings shown. Get that.

Now - are those savings wrong, big NO - it depends on your local gas prices, utility/electric plans/rates etc. you may have to fine tune your current savings (and possibly future) based on your local pricing. If you ain’t have time to do that - and just do armchair bashing - It May be sour grapes. Is it all glory at/with Tesla, possibly no, but can you point out any other make/model with all positives and still affordable!? Please enlighten the community - we are all here for saving a buck or two.

Many companies are getting out of car making business for a reason: at an average price of about $26k of avg car, there ain’t lot of money left to be made! And what happens to your cherished car/make once major auto makers get out of car business!? And with rebates, and gas savings now that Tesla comes up with a good model 3 car, almost/about touching the avg car selling pice, some of the detractors quibble. Like I mention before there is statistically 40 (or more) detractors for every single car sold! Just want to let the sensible buyers know that some of the bashers may just be the part of ‘40 detractors pool against 1’ - it’s ok, that’s just par for the course.

While buyers do/can enjoy a great car, and greater and productive technology - now offered at a very sensible price point !
Last edited by sc9182 on Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

michaeljc70
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:18 pm

When I went online last week it said my car (which I didn't wind up purchasing) would be available in two weeks. If this is such a steal, the company so solid, etc., wouldn't there be more than a 2 week wait? I haven't driven the car (but have read plenty of reviews) and am not going to attack the merits of the car itself as I think it is impressive. I don't think buying a Tesla is a riskless or low risk endeavor though. If this is a "fun" car or a toy, it is different than a "Boglehead" car you expect to keep for 10 years.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:34 pm

sc9182 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:56 am
There are always issues with any companies long term viability, and/or their stock performance.
This is a ludicrous statement and completely wrong. Tesla has already shown that it can't effectively repair its current fleet and it is still in business. Moreover, even Musk has admitted they have been weeks from folding a couple times. Who repairs these and how they get repaired/serviced in a few years is a major risk. Resale value as well. This isn't even a long-term thing. This is a year or two thing.
sc9182 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:56 am
Tesla mode 3 is a good car, and at $35k (on phone or stores) - in-addiction with Federal and/or State or Utility rebates, it’s priced much better than what the MSRP indicates.

Now, the projected gas savings may exceed or not depending on miles driven, and electricity vs gas cost. Now that gas is still about $3, everybody happy to take a swipe at projected savings shown. Get that.

Now - are those savings wrong, big NO..
You magically left out greatly increased insurance costs. I am older and own three German cars. Adding a Model 3 to my insurance compared to adding a 3 series BMW costs near $400 more a year. I expect the delta would be much greater if I was younger/poor record and this was my only car.
sc9182 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:56 am
..and just do armchair bashing
Speaking of armchair...you would have to be an armchair buyer to get a "unicorn" 35k Model 3. You wouldn't be able to sit in one first, you wouldn't know when it would arrive since Tesla has already lied about that as they try and bait and switch and deliver costlier models first, you would not be able to touch or see the cloth interior or possibly lower grade plastics. I'm not aware of this car even being seen or reviewed in the flesh. Who would buy a car under those circumstances? Seats are kind of a big deal IMO.

I live in the third largest City in the US and called Tesla Friday to see if they at least had a car to sit in with the cloth interiors. They have never had one and don't know when/if they will.

Frankly the best case scenario is that they don't produce them at all and just sell already made models with some software limits on them or whatever. At least you would be able to know what the seats are like.
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by sc9182 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:31 pm

If you are wondering majority of what’s called big 3 for dozens of decades either went bankrupt, or went foreign, and they have been in this business for how many years - and still couldn’t sustain. You seem to know much about car business - let alone how fickle the car business has been over last dozen years or so. And many of those legacy car makers have announced to get out of ‘car’ making business altogether - talk about stability being implied!

If you wondering “sport/faster” cars happen to cost more with insurance cost(s) - that’s insurance 101. BTW, it’s lot cheaper than other sports cars due to top crash rating, and possibly factors-in who buys it - definitely not someone who strongly adhere to: “no replacement for displacement”

With Autopilot- level 2, at current level - definitely a stress reducer if you are working types, who commutes to work (AP recommended on highway/tollways). Once you come home from a long/stressful commute you don’t have to feel like vegetable in front of TV., now with Tesla AP, you get to do other productive things at/around home!

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by squirm » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:55 pm

Not sure how the autopilot is a stress reliever. What does it do when some knob is riding your butt in the carpool lane? That happens to us all the time and it doesn't matter how fast you go.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by fareastwarriors » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:06 pm

squirm wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:55 pm
Not sure how the autopilot is a stress reliever. What does it do when some knob is riding your butt in the carpool lane? That happens to us all the time and it doesn't matter how fast you go.
Those people will eventually go around you.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:12 pm

People can go back and forth, but when Ford and whoever else said it is essentially getting out of the car (sedan) business, I don't think anyone was worried about finding parts for their cars. When some of the big US automakers declared bankruptcy, no one was really worried about not getting parts for their cars or having a place to get them fixed.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:15 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:12 pm
People can go back and forth, but when Ford and whoever else said it is essentially getting out of the car (sedan) business, I don't think anyone was worried about finding parts for their cars. When some of the big US automakers declared bankruptcy, no one was really worried about not getting parts for their cars or having a place to get them fixed.
Could it be because they had an installed base of tens of millions and thousands upon thousands of places where cars could be fixed and because there are zillions of available parts. Yes, it could be.

Having said that I wouldn't have suggested buying a GM in 2008. I also didn't hear GM owners crowing about how their car was changing their life, the best thing ever, or saving the world so the conversation never really came up. :beer
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

michaeljc70
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:20 pm

matjen wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:15 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:12 pm
People can go back and forth, but when Ford and whoever else said it is essentially getting out of the car (sedan) business, I don't think anyone was worried about finding parts for their cars. When some of the big US automakers declared bankruptcy, no one was really worried about not getting parts for their cars or having a place to get them fixed.
Could it be because they had an installed base of tens of millions and thousands upon thousands of places where cars could be fixed and because there are zillions of available parts. Yes, it could be.

Having said that I wouldn't have suggested buying a GM in 2008. I also didn't hear GM owners crowing about how their car was changing their life, the best thing ever, or saving the world so the conversation never really came up. :beer
Yes it could be, since that was the point. :D Posts above seem to be inferring otherwise like they are just like Tesla now.

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:35 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:20 pm

Yes it could be, since that was the point. :D Posts above seem to be inferring otherwise like they are just like Tesla now.
My apologies! I am so used to "opposite world" logic on this topic that I just defaulted to that is what you meant. :D

Never forget, Tesla's are an appreciating asset! :annoyed

“Buying a car today is an investment into the future. I think the most profound thing is that if you buy a Tesla today, I believe you are buying an appreciating asset – not a depreciating asset.” Elon Musk
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by jbranx » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:16 pm

{This discussion has become quite heated in some spots and has also moved off topic to discuss alternative power. To keep the thread open, please stay on topic and refrain from angry comments. Moderator Jbranx}

209south
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by 209south » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:14 pm

I bought a $55k Model 3 in November so I can't comment directly on the $35k version. My understanding is that the lower-priced version is still available; but not online, probably because Tesla realized (too late) that it makes no sense to make a $35k version when they have plenty of demand for the pricier, longer-ranged, faster, higher-margin models. I think Musk felt this was a promise he had to keep - fine, but keep it in 2020 or 2021 when battery costs are 20% lower and you can do it profitably.

I bought my car online, never having visited a Tesla store. The experience was seamless, the car was delivered to me and paperwork took literally three minutes. The car replaced an Audi S4 and is far superior - quicker, smoother, equally-tight turning, etc. I consider it a 'sports sedan' like equivalent Audis, BMWs, etc. and it is gradually taking global share. Game over, those driving ICEs are driving 'flip-phones' while Tesla drivers are driving iphones lol.

wrongfunds
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by wrongfunds » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:16 pm

OP bought his car and is having fun with it.

The usual short sellers are still going very strong as expected. One of them alluded that he is actual an i3 driver although I am having hard time believing that nugget as it came out of nowhere. I had to parse that allusion few times to make sure I was reading him right.

What is shocking is that this topic is still going long after OP made his decision But I never ever question those decisions. Those are way above my pay grade.

FoolStreet
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:40 pm

squirm wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:55 pm
Not sure how the autopilot is a stress reliever. What does it do when some knob is riding your butt in the carpool lane? That happens to us all the time and it doesn't matter how fast you go.
You shouldn’t be in the carpool lane then! :-)

NoA will move you out of the passing lane so that you don’t block it.

FoolStreet
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:44 pm

209south wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:14 pm
I bought a $55k Model 3 in November so I can't comment directly on the $35k version. My understanding is that the lower-priced version is still available; but not online, probably because Tesla realized (too late) that it makes no sense to make a $35k version when they have plenty of demand for the pricier, longer-ranged, faster, higher-margin models. I think Musk felt this was a promise he had to keep - fine, but keep it in 2020 or 2021 when battery costs are 20% lower and you can do it profitably.

I bought my car online, never having visited a Tesla store. The experience was seamless, the car was delivered to me and paperwork took literally three minutes. The car replaced an Audi S4 and is far superior - quicker, smoother, equally-tight turning, etc. I consider it a 'sports sedan' like equivalent Audis, BMWs, etc. and it is gradually taking global share. Game over, those driving ICEs are driving 'flip-phones' while Tesla drivers are driving iphones lol.
From what I gather, everyone who wanted to place an order for a 35k version had their chance. Most bought the 37k one. If you haven’t bought a 35k one by now, let’s move on.

Personally, i love how may car got a 5% power upgrade via an over the air software update! Value add just like that. The car keeps getting better. My car will get updates from an improved neural network and additional driving features. Love it!

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:41 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:44 pm
From what I gather, everyone who wanted to place an order for a 35k version had their chance. Most bought the 37k one. If you haven’t bought a 35k one by now, let’s move on.
OK, let's just move on from a massive bait & switch and pretend like a handful of weeks is enough time for people to purchase a car and a reasonable time for car model to exist. A handful of weeks when Tesla never showed the car, never had the car reviewed, and, wait for it...apparently has never produced the car either. Why? I can only assume it is cheaper for them to just software limit already designed and made cars than to actually have to design a cloth interior with less features. This indicates how cash strapped they are. This 35K car couldn't be made profitably and was only "offered" in order to avoid lawsuits. Car & Driver has an interesting article. Shady, shady, shady.


The "$35,000" Tesla Model 3 Is No More, and It Seems That It Never Was
Tesla already raised the price on the Standard Range car, which is now available only by special order, and all signs point to the company never having delivered a single car with a cloth interior.
This calls into question whether Tesla actually built or delivered any of the originally announced Standard Range Model 3 vehicles to customers. We're not sure if these stripped-out vehicles with cloth interiors ever existed in the first place, as Tesla says the special-order Standard Range cars will now be Standard Range Plus cars with a software-limited battery that provides a bit less range. The range will be limited by 10 percent, suggesting it will have a range of 226 miles, and it will also have software blocking features such as heated seats, navigation, and online music streaming.
and...
We reported a few weeks ago about Model 3 buyers who were complaining about delayed deliveries of their vehicles after Tesla initially promised that the Standard Range cars would ship within 2 to 4 weeks. Tesla now says that the first Standard Range cars will deliver to customers this weekend, but it's unclear if this shipment will include any of the cloth-interior cars, as we found many examples of customers who ordered these base cars getting calls from Tesla attempting to persuade them into opting for the Standard Range Plus model.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2712 ... ard-range/
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NewPhoneWhoDis
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by NewPhoneWhoDis » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:23 am

i wonder if matjen has an alarm (house? phone? maybe both?) that goes off every time there's a tesla post in this thread or on this board. it's pretty close to an obsession at this point.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:36 am

FoolStreet wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:40 pm

You shouldn’t be in the carpool lane then! :-)

NoA will move you out of the passing lane so that you don’t block it.
What's a carpool lane?

Must be one of those things they have in California like overpriced $3 a gallon gas that we don't have out our way.
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prudent
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by prudent » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:47 am

Topic is locked (topic exhausted and OP has made a decision).

Locked