What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

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Jags4186
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by Jags4186 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:03 am

Horsefly wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:50 pm
This seems like a good place to ask this question. If it seems more appropriate for a new thread, the mods should feel free to move it.

The Chase Ink Preferred is currently offering an 80K point sign-up bonus. I already have the Chase Sapphire Preferred card, so this sign-up bonus is very tempting.

Although I do have a business (and an EIN) I actually have no intention of using the card for any actual business expenses, mostly because I don't have any real business expenses (it's an investment partnership, with a single brokerage account). Fact is, I plan on spending the required $5K for the sign-up bonus and then will probably keep the card only long enough to get the points.

From everything I've read on-line, they warn you not to use a business card for personal expenses, but only because the protections afforded individuals are not provided for business cards. They don't seem to have any outright rule against personal charges.

Does anyone see any real problem with this?
I don’t know where the boogie man argument of “protections afforded individuals are not provided for business cards.” Please document for me what protections you are not getting.

The only T&C that is negative on the business card vs the personal cards is that the rental car CDW is only for rentals used for “business purposes”. I am unaware of whether or not they verify this or how they would verify this. I just wouldn’t use an Ink card for rental cars.

THY4373
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by THY4373 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:18 am

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:57 am
I finally found that transferring to Virgin Air is the best way to get Ana first class tickets to Japan for much lower mileage than United.
It is but you have to book round trip so you need to wait for the return to open up to book so some availability outbound will likely be lost as you wait for this (most Star Alliance carriers allow one way bookings). If you are flexible on dates, class of service and departure/return city you'll likely have no problem.

Horsefly
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by Horsefly » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:44 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:03 am
I don’t know where the boogie man argument of “protections afforded individuals are not provided for business cards.” Please document for me what protections you are not getting.

The only T&C that is negative on the business card vs the personal cards is that the rental car CDW is only for rentals used for “business purposes”. I am unaware of whether or not they verify this or how they would verify this. I just wouldn’t use an Ink card for rental cars.
I guess what I was talking about was references like the following.

https://www.morebusiness.com/business-c ... rd-issues/
Less Purchase Protection – When you use a personal credit card, most credit companies will offer purchase protection. However, business credit cards often do not have that same protection. This translates into more difficulties returning purchased goods, correcting billing errors, and even reversing fraudulent charges.
I think I've seen similar statements on sites like the points guy, doctor of credit, etc. (I don't have any links, just hazy memory of reading it).

If you can show me that it isn't true, I'm good with that. It wasn't meant as a "boogie man" to scare anyone. Just going with what I had understood.

I already knew about the CDW thing. That's also well documented on lots of credit sites, including some people who have been caught by the CC company when trying to make a claim.

Jags4186
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by Jags4186 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:50 am

Horsefly wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:44 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:03 am
I don’t know where the boogie man argument of “protections afforded individuals are not provided for business cards.” Please document for me what protections you are not getting.

The only T&C that is negative on the business card vs the personal cards is that the rental car CDW is only for rentals used for “business purposes”. I am unaware of whether or not they verify this or how they would verify this. I just wouldn’t use an Ink card for rental cars.
I guess what I was talking about was references like the following.

https://www.morebusiness.com/business-c ... rd-issues/
Less Purchase Protection – When you use a personal credit card, most credit companies will offer purchase protection. However, business credit cards often do not have that same protection. This translates into more difficulties returning purchased goods, correcting billing errors, and even reversing fraudulent charges.
I think I've seen similar statements on sites like the points guy, doctor of credit, etc. (I don't have any links, just hazy memory of reading it).

If you can show me that it isn't true, I'm good with that. It wasn't meant as a "boogie man" to scare anyone. Just going with what I had understood.

I already knew about the CDW thing. That's also well documented on lots of credit sites, including some people who have been caught by the CC company when trying to make a claim.
Maybe 30 years ago that was the case, but most if not all business cards offer the exact same protections personal cards offer. You should review your benefits guide before making purchases. I have yet to run across a business card worth getting that isn’t more or less equivalent to its consumer version.

Here is an example I can think of off the top of my head. AMEX Blue Business Plus does not offer Return Protection (i.e. if the company won’t take a product back within 90 days, AMEX will refund you up to $300). But no card has to offer return protection...it’s just over time cards have begun to offer more and more benefits.

TravelGeek
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:01 pm

It seems to me that the protections most people would care about are the zero liability protections in case of fraud etc. According to

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card ... -cards.php

these rules generally apply to small business cards (but not corporate cards). There are other protections afforded by the 2009 CARD act that only apply to personal cards as per

https://www.consumerreports.org/credit- ... otections/

I haven’t read the law itself, but what this article outlines doesn’t strike me as particularly important for people using credit cards for awards (they should never not pay the full balance anyway).

I think a lot of the warnings about small business cards even on sites like TPG are just unsubstantiated rehashes of vague statements on some random website (and I will gladly admit I have been guilty of that in the past). Example from TPG:

“4. Business cards tend to offer fewer protections and come with higher rates and fees.

Business credit cards are not monitored and regulated nearly as closely as personal credit cards. As a result, issuers typically provide fewer protections and charge higher interest rates than for comparable personal products. These companies can even change your APR or tack on additional fees and penalties without warning.”

No link no details on what protections actually are not available etc. The next paragraph then goes to to basically say “none of this should matter to you, dear reader, so here is another great referral link” (paraphrased)
Last edited by TravelGeek on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spirit Rider
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by Spirit Rider » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:04 pm

One thing to keep in mind with CDW, purchase protection, etc... The credit card issuers almost always contract with a third party company. That third party makes most of their profit by denying your claims. They are looking for any reason to deny those claims.

TravelGeek
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:10 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:04 pm
One thing to keep in mind with CDW, purchase protection, etc... The credit card issuers almost always contract with a third party company. That third party makes most of their profit by denying your claims. They are looking for any reason to deny those claims.
No personal experience, but if you file a claim for a $500 scratch with your small business card, they are probably less interested in spending a lot of time researching the purpose of your trip than if you totaled a $50k vehicle on the German Autobahn and have a small business card as the proprietor of a local coffee house in the US.

All my travel and car rental is personal and gets charged to my (personal) CSR.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:52 pm

THY4373 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:18 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:57 am
I finally found that transferring to Virgin Air is the best way to get Ana first class tickets to Japan for much lower mileage than United.
It is but you have to book round trip so you need to wait for the return to open up to book so some availability outbound will likely be lost as you wait for this (most Star Alliance carriers allow one way bookings). If you are flexible on dates, class of service and departure/return city you'll likely have no problem.
Thanks for the information. Yes, I’m flexible on the dates. I was hoping to fly from Japan to Hawaii for one leg, only 6 hours and I have the points to fly first class on Japan Airlines too.

I just don’t like all the Asian Airlines like Cathay and Singapore because they have waitlist. It’s hard for me to book hotels and such. On Cathay Pacific/ Flyertalk, someone is still waiting and they have less than 14 days Togo. However, they already have return flight.
Last edited by DrGoogle2017 on Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JBTX
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by JBTX » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:03 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:01 pm
It seems to me that the protections most people would care about are the zero liability protections in case of fraud etc. According to

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card ... -cards.php

these rules generally apply to small business cards (but not corporate cards). There are other protections afforded by the 2009 CARD act that only apply to personal cards as per

https://www.consumerreports.org/credit- ... otections/

I haven’t read the law itself, but what this article outlines doesn’t strike me as particularly important for people using credit cards for awards (they should never not pay the full balance anyway).

I think a lot of the warnings about small business cards even on sites like TPG are just unsubstantiated rehashes of vague statements on some random website (and I will gladly admit I have been guilty of that in the past). Example from TPG:

“4. Business cards tend to offer fewer protections and come with higher rates and fees.

Business credit cards are not monitored and regulated nearly as closely as personal credit cards. As a result, issuers typically provide fewer protections and charge higher interest rates than for comparable personal products. These companies can even change your APR or tack on additional fees and penalties without warning.”

No link no details on what protections actually are not available etc. The next paragraph then goes to to basically say “none of this should matter to you, dear reader, so here is another great referral link” (paraphrased)
According to this chase business cards have zero liability

https://www.creditcardinsider.com/credi ... -business/
Benefits
All of these cards come with useful benefits like:

Up to 70 employee cards, for free, which can have individual spending limits (this is a great way to earn more rewards)
Building business credit, since they report positive payment activity to the Dun & Bradstreet business credit bureau
Purchase protection and extended warranty protection, in case something you buy breaks
A rental collision damage waiver, to provide some insurance for car rentals
Cell phone protection insurance to cover your phone in certain situations
Fraud and zero liability protection, so you won’t have to pay for unauthorized purchases

DrGoogle2017
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:26 pm

I had very good experience with Amex when it was with Costco on purchase on anything. I managed to get $1300 charge off from Ford service because they claim to fix something and they never did. The business manager there bullied me, even though I would have settled for $400. Same with ordering bedding from LLbean or something like that, when I ordered they had the bedding but they didn’t send the complete set for months, when I called to complained, they let me in one of those wait loop for hours. I finally got fedup and call Amex, said my time was valuable, I didn’t have two hours to wait in a loop and they reimburse. I have the same luck with Costco card now. So when credit card companies deal with big name like Costco those cards are usually good for purchase protection.

mega317
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by mega317 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:50 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:04 pm
One thing to keep in mind with CDW, purchase protection, etc... The credit card issuers almost always contract with a third party company. That third party makes most of their profit by denying your claims. They are looking for any reason to deny those claims.
I agree with this but I actually had a remarkable experience. A washer and dryer I bought dropped by $100 each soon after I bought. They wanted a screen shot of the price but didn't like mine for some reason and denied. I called the company and the rep explained the problem, then put me on hold and went to the website herself to verify, and the price was even lower so I got two checks for more than I had originally claimed. No idea why they would do that.

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VictoriaF
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by VictoriaF » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:35 am

DrGrnTum wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:54 am
Victoria,
In the last week of September of 2017 I applied for one of the SouthWest cards. One week later I applied for the 2nd Chase SouthWest card. In doing so I was able to pick up the SouthWest Companion pass at the start of the next year. This was back when SW was allowing people to apply for the two cards.

When I applied I did not immediate get approval on the cards. To expedite the process I did call in to their reconsideration line. Here is that number: 1-888 245-0625.

Playing the CC game it is always YMMV, so good luck.
DrGrnTum,

Thank you for the data point. I fully recognize the YMMV -- or is it MMMV (My Mileage May Vary)?

I am planning to apply for the 2nd Chase card on Wednesday, the 17th, which will be 7 days after the first one was approved and well before the IHG bonus deadline.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

confusedinvestor
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by confusedinvestor » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:56 am

What is the best way to request waiver of Credit Card annual fees ?

eg Bank of America Premium Rewards CC annual fees of $100

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SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:19 am

confusedinvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:56 am
What is the best way to request waiver of Credit Card annual fees ?

eg Bank of America Premium Rewards CC annual fees of $100
Threaten to cancel when renewal comes up. Unless you're a really big user, I doubt you'll get a waiver these days, but you might get a lagniappe.

JBTX
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by JBTX » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:15 am

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:19 am
confusedinvestor wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:56 am
What is the best way to request waiver of Credit Card annual fees ?

eg Bank of America Premium Rewards CC annual fees of $100
Threaten to cancel when renewal comes up. Unless you're a really big user, I doubt you'll get a waiver these days, but you might get a lagniappe.
Some cards may give a waiver. Some don't. I ended up canceling BOA premium rewards card. You could possibly downgrade it to another card.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:55 pm

I don’t have any Chase Sapphire card yet. I’ve read that if you open a checking account with $75,000 deposit, I get 60,000 points bonus on top of the 60,000 points bonus of opening a Chase Sapphire card. Do I have to close the old checking account that I have there with a small balance before opening a new one, it’s a bit convoluted but I wonder if the requirement is that strict.

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