Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

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Random Musings
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Random Musings » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:08 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:05 pm
jpsfranks wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:53 pm
MindBogler wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:43 pm
ronno2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:40 pm
The homeless problem and urban cleanliness is not as bad as people mention, a lot of sincere people are working on solutions. I think it is better than a few years ago.
Seattle, Portland and San Francisco look like something out of a post apocalyptic film most nights. There are feces, vomit and needles everywhere. Tents and passed out people litter the streets. A shameful deterioration of once beautiful cities.
There is a homelessness problem to be sure, but this description is so over the top. It's amazing that a city as you miserable as you describe it has continued to be one of the fastest growing cities in the country for most of the last decade. Why do people keep moving to such a wretched place?
Probably because housing is cheap compared to San Francisco, there’s no state income taxes, and people want Amazon/Microsoft on their resume then they bail. It certainly isn’t for quality of life or cultural offerings.

I happen to agree with MindBogler. I never saw such an insidious and frightening homeless issue. When I lived in NYC i never felt uncomfortable walking around at night pretty much anywhere in Manhattan. There were a lot less homeless there, and the homeless in New York don’t bother you. The homeless in Seattle are aggressive and will pester everyone passing by for money. Like a typical New Yorker I would walk past them without acknowledging their existence they would still follow me and try to get me to give them something. This rarely if ever happened to me in NYC

When I lived in Seattle I was terrified. Property crime was astonishingly common and many of the homeless have mental issues. One of my biggest fears was that some schizophrenic would attack me for no apparent reason, or I’d get robbed by a drug addict looking for some cash. I never felt safe on the streets of Seattle day or night.
If you look at per capita property crimes in major cities, SF and Seattle are in the top three. I don't believe the social experiments the city governments have enacted are working too well; however, I probably just can't see the big picture. My best friends kids live there and their goal is to move away where property values are more affordable.

RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ

JTColton
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by JTColton » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am

Can confirm the homeless issue is horrible. The people who don’t see it I’m not sure where you are living or hanging out. There are homeless passed out in every public restroom in Pike’s Market, packs of stoned aggressive homeless that accost you for money (never for food though). If you want to have a croissant at le Panier or a bite to eat at Etta’s or standing in line for Moore Theatre they will just stand there staring at you until you give them something or get aggressive in return. At night they sleep in doorways and overhangs and tent cities. The tent cities are a blight on a once beautiful city. Picture a landfill, an open sewer and a trap house combined. Feces and needles everywhere but high $$ camping tents. This is in the city proper ie downtown, the outer neighborhoods are not as bad but still has some issues depending on where you are.

How can we forget The Jungle? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle_(Seattle)

I will not even touch the political situation in the city, do some reasesrch if you like.

I don’t think this decision is cut and dried. Based on the posts and numbers you would maybe break even for a worse life balance. If you can hack it though, it would probably boost your career significantly.

To make this actionable Id highly recommend you make a scouting trip there. Instead of staying in a hotel try and find an AirBnB in a neighborhood you may want to stay. Then attempt your commute, assess the local amenities, walk at night etc as they can change significantly from place to place.

DonIce
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by DonIce » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:43 am

JTColton wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am
Can confirm the homeless issue is horrible. The people who don’t see it I’m not sure where you are living or hanging out. There are homeless passed out in every public restroom in Pike’s Market, packs of stoned aggressive homeless that accost you for money (never for food though). If you want to have a croissant at le Panier or a bite to eat at Etta’s or standing in line for Moore Theatre they will just stand there staring at you until you give them something or get aggressive in return. At night they sleep in doorways and overhangs and tent cities. The tent cities are a blight on a once beautiful city. Picture a landfill, an open sewer and a trap house combined. Feces and needles everywhere but high $$ camping tents. This is in the city proper ie downtown, the outer neighborhoods are not as bad but still has some issues depending on where you are.
Here's an obligatory link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pAi70WWBlw

Mr. Digweed
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Mr. Digweed » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:02 am

Rellocate to Bainbridge Island and take the ferry across to Seattle. Thats a morning and evening commute worth considering instead the near gridlock on the freeways around.

dknightd
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by dknightd » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:07 am

do what makes you happy

quantAndHold
Posts: 2917
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by quantAndHold » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:17 am

JTColton wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am
Can confirm the homeless issue is horrible. The people who don’t see it I’m not sure where you are living or hanging out. There are homeless passed out in every public restroom in Pike’s Market, packs of stoned aggressive homeless that accost you for money (never for food though). If you want to have a croissant at le Panier or a bite to eat at Etta’s or standing in line for Moore Theatre they will just stand there staring at you until you give them something or get aggressive in return. At night they sleep in doorways and overhangs and tent cities. The tent cities are a blight on a once beautiful city. Picture a landfill, an open sewer and a trap house combined. Feces and needles everywhere but high $$ camping tents. This is in the city proper ie downtown, the outer neighborhoods are not as bad but still has some issues depending on where you are.

How can we forget The Jungle? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle_(Seattle)

I will not even touch the political situation in the city, do some reasesrch if you like.

I don’t think this decision is cut and dried. Based on the posts and numbers you would maybe break even for a worse life balance. If you can hack it though, it would probably boost your career significantly.

To make this actionable Id highly recommend you make a scouting trip there. Instead of staying in a hotel try and find an AirBnB in a neighborhood you may want to stay. Then attempt your commute, assess the local amenities, walk at night etc as they can change significantly from place to place.
I didn’t like living in Seattle, and one of the reasons was the “can’t do” attitude in city politics, but this is so over the top as to be silly. The idea that an Amazon employee is going to have to deal with The Jungle is ridiculous. Lots of people live quite happily in Amazonia.

EddyB
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by EddyB » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:08 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:22 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:07 pm
rv26 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:18 pm
As someone who made the same move 6 years ago, I will tell you the cost of living from Baltimore to Seattle is going to be dramatic. The housing situation in the Seattle and even in the east side communities is bad. The homeless situation in Seattle is much worse than in Baltimore.

I will say that if you're an outdoor person, Seattle is a great. Skiing is about an 1 and half hours away, hiking is about an hour away and the area is very biker and jogger friendly.

I actually moved from the Seattle area (I lived in Bellevue and worked at Amazon) to Chicago 2 years ago. I do miss the weather but the culture in Seattle is a little different than I was used to living on the East Coast.
When you say dramatic what exactly. Houses in a good school district in/near Baltimore are $500k+. My current mortgage is $2400. I realize it will be more but not by much.
Broadway2018,

Please mentioned the size of your house to get an equivalent comparison. And, for the maximum shock value.

KlangFool
And then ignore all the other non-immediate, non-monetary factors in the comparison ....

KyleAAA
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by KyleAAA » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:19 pm

$210k seems pretty low for FANG in Seattle. Have you run your offer past the folks on Blind? There might be a lot of room to negotiate on equity. You QOL could very well go down in Seattle with that TC. I wouldn’t assume you will be working 55 hours. WLB is famously good at most of those companies other than maybe Amazon.

You can probably forget buying a decent house in a decent neighborhood for less than $1mm, and most such properties you’ll find need significant remodeling. We ran into quite a few tear downs in the $700-800k range if that gives you any idea what to expect. Luckily, the market has cooled significantly in the last year.
Last edited by KyleAAA on Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KlangFool
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by KlangFool » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:01 pm

EddyB wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:08 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:22 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:07 pm
rv26 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:18 pm
As someone who made the same move 6 years ago, I will tell you the cost of living from Baltimore to Seattle is going to be dramatic. The housing situation in the Seattle and even in the east side communities is bad. The homeless situation in Seattle is much worse than in Baltimore.

I will say that if you're an outdoor person, Seattle is a great. Skiing is about an 1 and half hours away, hiking is about an hour away and the area is very biker and jogger friendly.

I actually moved from the Seattle area (I lived in Bellevue and worked at Amazon) to Chicago 2 years ago. I do miss the weather but the culture in Seattle is a little different than I was used to living on the East Coast.
When you say dramatic what exactly. Houses in a good school district in/near Baltimore are $500k+. My current mortgage is $2400. I realize it will be more but not by much.
Broadway2018,

Please mentioned the size of your house to get an equivalent comparison. And, for the maximum shock value.

KlangFool
And then ignore all the other non-immediate, non-monetary factors in the comparison ....
EddyB,

A) This is a personal finance forum. All other non-monetary factors are subjective. However, we could provide an objective measure of the time and money difference between the two jobs.

B) If someone has to spend most of his time working and commuting and most of his money feeding the house, I seriously doubt that the person has any good quality of life.

KlangFool

dayzero
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by dayzero » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:09 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:21 pm
DonIce wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:17 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:50 pm
Job Offer: Relocation package to Seattle, includes covering realtor fees. $150k + ~$60k stock a year = ~$210k total comp. Have to go to an office every day, but will be working at FANG company. This could really set me up for my career.

Thoughts? I am going to try negotiating for more, but not even sure where to start. I really like the idea of moving to Seattle, however, am worried since everyone says the cost of living is high.
I dunno what role you got offered a job for but $210k total comp is very good for a developer in Seattle at Amazon/Facebook/Google. It's not Silicon Valley and you won't get the same salaries here as you do there. I wouldn't try to negotiate based on what you see people making down there.

Seattle is a great place to be if you like the outdoors, I love it here. But keep in mind you'll have to shuffle past smelly tents, homeless people, and human feces, every day on your way to and from your 6 figure job.
I am coming in as a mid-level manager and was hoping for $250k. I am hopeful I can negotiate a little due to the cost of living being so high. Also, Baltimore has high crime, tons of homeless, and equally has issues.
Tech or non-tech? If you're on the tech track, I assume you are joining as either L5 SDM or L6 PM/TPM. If you are joining as L6 SDM you are being severely lowballed. If SDM, the path to L6 from L5 is pretty straightforward and then you should be more in the 300-350ish range in a few years. Getting to L7 and beyond is harder but L7 ~500k/yr, L8 ~1M/yr. After that is VP and above, god only knows how much those make. I would 100% make the move, Seattle is an amazing city and A is a great place to work with amazing growth potential.

BespokeBiker
Posts: 10
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by BespokeBiker » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 pm

re: Oblivious drivers toodling along in the Left lane on WA highways:

I had to laugh when I read this point (made by a poster above) bc it's really true in my experience. I live in the SF Bay Area and do road trips to Seattle to see various immediate & extended family pretty regularly -- just returned from one 3 wks ago.

Somewhere in OR (on I-5 North) you begin to see this species of driver. In WA they seem to become more noticeable. It's a very small percentage, mind you, but really stands out compared to what I've experienced here in CA or on highways in the East. To an outsider it comes off at very least as poor driving etiquette. In some instances where the drivers are clearly aware of cars stacked behind them, it feels like the passive-aggressive raise of a middle finger; in others, some alternative between cautious oblivion or strong pot. Dunno... Maybe it's a Nordic lineage thing -- self-appointed hall monitors stepping up to regulate highway speed.

EddyB
Posts: 707
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by EddyB » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:34 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:01 pm
EddyB wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:08 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:22 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:07 pm
rv26 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:18 pm
As someone who made the same move 6 years ago, I will tell you the cost of living from Baltimore to Seattle is going to be dramatic. The housing situation in the Seattle and even in the east side communities is bad. The homeless situation in Seattle is much worse than in Baltimore.

I will say that if you're an outdoor person, Seattle is a great. Skiing is about an 1 and half hours away, hiking is about an hour away and the area is very biker and jogger friendly.

I actually moved from the Seattle area (I lived in Bellevue and worked at Amazon) to Chicago 2 years ago. I do miss the weather but the culture in Seattle is a little different than I was used to living on the East Coast.
When you say dramatic what exactly. Houses in a good school district in/near Baltimore are $500k+. My current mortgage is $2400. I realize it will be more but not by much.
Broadway2018,

Please mentioned the size of your house to get an equivalent comparison. And, for the maximum shock value.

KlangFool
And then ignore all the other non-immediate, non-monetary factors in the comparison ....
EddyB,

A) This is a personal finance forum. All other non-monetary factors are subjective. However, we could provide an objective measure of the time and money difference between the two jobs.

B) If someone has to spend most of his time working and commuting and most of his money feeding the house, I seriously doubt that the person has any good quality of life.

KlangFool
Respectively, your "objective" comparisons seem to express a particular worldview that is personal and reflects extensive subjective considerations. You want to reduce (seemingly) salaried positions to hypothetical hourly wage comparisons, because comparing the gross amount (even adjusted for COLA) doesn't support your point. You want to compare living in a desirable neighborhood in the city proper to a random highway-accessed suburb, so you'll make them equal by just assuming that occupying the preferable location comes at the expense of time to enjoy it (based on what?). I get that it reflects your experience and worldview, but the claim to objectivity doesn't really hold up. Someone else has already commented more specifically on income growth prospects (on the assumption that it's an Amazon position, but I suspect they're different more generally), but that doesn't factor in?

StoopieHippo
Posts: 36
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by StoopieHippo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:57 pm

If you're looking to live in Downtown Seattle for a short commute, I live in Belltown (north end so away from Downtown) and my condo is currently worth $550k for about 630sqft. It's technically an open studio, but we have a sliding door to separate the bedroom from the living room. Between the two of us, we bring in about $270k/yr and my mortgage is $2.3k/mo (15yr mortgage) since we bought at $370k.

Queen Anne is nice, but if you're bussing to SLU, that can take a bit. If you're looking to drive, you're probably going to pay upwards of $250/mo for a parking spot downtown. Easier to bus.

quantAndHold
Posts: 2917
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by quantAndHold » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:05 pm

Yeah, that brings up a point. Live where you can walk, bike, or take transit to work. You get a free transit pass, and there’s bike parking in all the buildings. Driving, between bridge tolls and parking, gets expensive really quickly. The company subsidizes parking, but it’s not anywhere close to 100%, and the wait for a monthly parking space can be over a year.

Isabelle77
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:43 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Isabelle77 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:07 pm

BespokeBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 pm
re: Oblivious drivers toodling along in the Left lane on WA highways:

I had to laugh when I read this point (made by a poster above) bc it's really true in my experience. I live in the SF Bay Area and do road trips to Seattle to see various immediate & extended family pretty regularly -- just returned from one 3 wks ago.

Somewhere in OR (on I-5 North) you begin to see this species of driver. In WA they seem to become more noticeable. It's a very small percentage, mind you, but really stands out compared to what I've experienced here in CA or on highways in the East. To an outsider it comes off at very least as poor driving etiquette. In some instances where the drivers are clearly aware of cars stacked behind them, it feels like the passive-aggressive raise of a middle finger; in others, some alternative between cautious oblivion or strong pot. Dunno... Maybe it's a Nordic lineage thing -- self-appointed hall monitors stepping up to regulate highway speed.
Hmmm...perhaps we should discuss what us Washington drivers think about California drivers... :shock: It isn't passive-aggressive, it's just cultural and you know, it rains a lot :)

OP, it sounds like a great opportunity for your career, I would do it. A few thoughts, we live in SW Washington near Portland so perhaps not entirely relevant. People in the PNW are difficult to get to know but in the 11yrs we've lived here, we have made fabulous friends. Once you break the ice, they are great. The homeless problem is no joke and seriously effects everything in Seattle and Portland. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, every year we've lived here has gotten progressively worse and the politics around it are unthinkable for an east coast native. All of that said I would still take the chance for a few years for your career, consider living on the Eastside or Bainbridge though, the city isn't working well right now.

KlangFool
Posts: 12291
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by KlangFool » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:13 pm

EddyB wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:34 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:01 pm
EddyB wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:08 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:22 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:07 pm


When you say dramatic what exactly. Houses in a good school district in/near Baltimore are $500k+. My current mortgage is $2400. I realize it will be more but not by much.
Broadway2018,

Please mentioned the size of your house to get an equivalent comparison. And, for the maximum shock value.

KlangFool
And then ignore all the other non-immediate, non-monetary factors in the comparison ....
EddyB,

A) This is a personal finance forum. All other non-monetary factors are subjective. However, we could provide an objective measure of the time and money difference between the two jobs.

B) If someone has to spend most of his time working and commuting and most of his money feeding the house, I seriously doubt that the person has any good quality of life.

KlangFool
Respectively, your "objective" comparisons seem to express a particular worldview that is personal and reflects extensive subjective considerations. You want to reduce (seemingly) salaried positions to hypothetical hourly wage comparisons, because comparing the gross amount (even adjusted for COLA) doesn't support your point. You want to compare living in a desirable neighborhood in the city proper to a random highway-accessed suburb, so you'll make them equal by just assuming that occupying the preferable location comes at the expense of time to enjoy it (based on what?). I get that it reflects your experience and worldview, but the claim to objectivity doesn't really hold up. Someone else has already commented more specifically on income growth prospects (on the assumption that it's an Amazon position, but I suspect they're different more generally), but that doesn't factor in?
EddyB,

1) This is an open forum. If you believe that you have a better point of view, please present it and explain why it is better.

2) OP has a work from home job with a 135K salary in a house. The competing job offer has to offer something better in return. If it is not time or money, it has to be something else.

<<You want to compare living in a desirable neighborhood in the city proper to a random highway-accessed suburb,>>

3) OP had stated that he wants 30 minutes or less commute. It is his requirement. Not mine. So, if you want to present something else, please offer something else and explain how long that commute is.

4) OP has zero commutes now.

KlangFool

quantAndHold
Posts: 2917
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by quantAndHold » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:18 pm

Sometimes a new job is about future opportunity, not exact parity with the current job. This is one of those times.

In the same situation as OP, I took the job and moved. It was one of the best financial decisions of my life. We came out way ahead by moving.
Last edited by quantAndHold on Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KlangFool
Posts: 12291
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by KlangFool » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:20 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:18 pm
Sometimes a new job is about future opportunity, not exact parity with the current job. This is one of those times.

In the same situation as OP, I took the job and moved. It was one of the best financial decisions of my life. We came out way ahead by moving.
quantAndHold,

And, to help OP, you may want to explain why. Did you double or triple your income in 2 to 3 years by moving? Or, it is something else?

KlangFool

quantAndHold
Posts: 2917
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by quantAndHold » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:21 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:20 pm
quantAndHold wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:18 pm
Sometimes a new job is about future opportunity, not exact parity with the current job. This is one of those times.

In the same situation as OP, I took the job and moved. It was one of the best financial decisions of my life. We came out way ahead by moving.
quantAndHold,

And, to help OP, you may want to explain why. Did you double or triple your income in 2 to 3 years by moving? Or, it is something else?

KlangFool
I didn’t care for either the company or the city, and we eventually left, but not before I had made a large pile of money. Part of the money came from raises and stock appreciation. Part from buying “overpriced” real estate, and selling it to someone else for more money four years later.

The other thing is, I don’t know Op’s background, but having this company on his resume will get a lot of attention from future employers. It’s a really, really good company to be from.

KyleAAA
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Contact:

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by KyleAAA » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:28 pm

People complaining about not feeling safe in Seattle must lead very sheltered lives. Crime absolutely isn’t a major issue. The most common property crime is that somebody might steal a package off your porch, annoying but you can easily avoid it and you’re never in any real danger. There are a lot of homeless but like everywhere, they are mostly harmless. Plus the city and local companies have really started pushing to address the affordable housing problem.

Commute is also not an issue. I commute between Seattle and the east side and it’s never more than 30 minutes unless there is an accident on I90 bridge. If your commute is primarily north-south you will have it worse, but that’s easily solved by not living in Everett. You don’t need to live in the city to have a 30 minute commute.

BespokeBiker
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by BespokeBiker » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:16 pm

@ Isabelle77
"Hmmm...perhaps we should discuss what us Washington drivers think about California drivers... :shock: "

Laugh -- ya got me :wink: . (No doubt, countless Bogleheads can share experiences of crazy/rude CA drivers.)

ssquared87
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by ssquared87 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:18 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:07 pm
BespokeBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 pm
re: Oblivious drivers toodling along in the Left lane on WA highways:

I had to laugh when I read this point (made by a poster above) bc it's really true in my experience. I live in the SF Bay Area and do road trips to Seattle to see various immediate & extended family pretty regularly -- just returned from one 3 wks ago.

Somewhere in OR (on I-5 North) you begin to see this species of driver. In WA they seem to become more noticeable. It's a very small percentage, mind you, but really stands out compared to what I've experienced here in CA or on highways in the East. To an outsider it comes off at very least as poor driving etiquette. In some instances where the drivers are clearly aware of cars stacked behind them, it feels like the passive-aggressive raise of a middle finger; in others, some alternative between cautious oblivion or strong pot. Dunno... Maybe it's a Nordic lineage thing -- self-appointed hall monitors stepping up to regulate highway speed.
Hmmm...perhaps we should discuss what us Washington drivers think about California drivers... :shock: It isn't passive-aggressive, it's just cultural and you know, it rains a lot :)
So you’re saying that the people living in a place where it rains constantly are too incompetent to figure out how to safely, competently, and politely drive in the rain?

I have lived in other places where it rains much less than Seattle and yet the drivers don’t seem to have a problem figuring out how to drive properly in rain
Last edited by ssquared87 on Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

letsgobobby
Posts: 12115
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:20 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:18 pm
Isabelle77 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:07 pm
BespokeBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 pm
re: Oblivious drivers toodling along in the Left lane on WA highways:

I had to laugh when I read this point (made by a poster above) bc it's really true in my experience. I live in the SF Bay Area and do road trips to Seattle to see various immediate & extended family pretty regularly -- just returned from one 3 wks ago.

Somewhere in OR (on I-5 North) you begin to see this species of driver. In WA they seem to become more noticeable. It's a very small percentage, mind you, but really stands out compared to what I've experienced here in CA or on highways in the East. To an outsider it comes off at very least as poor driving etiquette. In some instances where the drivers are clearly aware of cars stacked behind them, it feels like the passive-aggressive raise of a middle finger; in others, some alternative between cautious oblivion or strong pot. Dunno... Maybe it's a Nordic lineage thing -- self-appointed hall monitors stepping up to regulate highway speed.
Hmmm...perhaps we should discuss what us Washington drivers think about California drivers... :shock: It isn't passive-aggressive, it's just cultural and you know, it rains a lot :)
So you’re saying that the people living in a place where it rains constantly are too incompetent to figure out how to safely, competently, and politely drive in the rain?
ha, you should see it when it snows! You'd think no one in Western Washington had ever seen a snowflake before.

ssquared87
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by ssquared87 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:21 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:20 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:18 pm
Isabelle77 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:07 pm
BespokeBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 pm
re: Oblivious drivers toodling along in the Left lane on WA highways:

I had to laugh when I read this point (made by a poster above) bc it's really true in my experience. I live in the SF Bay Area and do road trips to Seattle to see various immediate & extended family pretty regularly -- just returned from one 3 wks ago.

Somewhere in OR (on I-5 North) you begin to see this species of driver. In WA they seem to become more noticeable. It's a very small percentage, mind you, but really stands out compared to what I've experienced here in CA or on highways in the East. To an outsider it comes off at very least as poor driving etiquette. In some instances where the drivers are clearly aware of cars stacked behind them, it feels like the passive-aggressive raise of a middle finger; in others, some alternative between cautious oblivion or strong pot. Dunno... Maybe it's a Nordic lineage thing -- self-appointed hall monitors stepping up to regulate highway speed.
Hmmm...perhaps we should discuss what us Washington drivers think about California drivers... :shock: It isn't passive-aggressive, it's just cultural and you know, it rains a lot :)
So you’re saying that the people living in a place where it rains constantly are too incompetent to figure out how to safely, competently, and politely drive in the rain?
ha, you should see it when it snows! You'd think no one in Western Washington had ever seen a snowflake before.
I was living in cap hill when the busses were sliding down the roads I was in complete astonishment.

Captain kangaroo
Posts: 90
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Captain kangaroo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:27 pm

As someone that lives in Baltimore, I'd take a pay cut, pay more taxes, take worse weather if it meant leaving Baltimore.

Isabelle77
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:43 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Isabelle77 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:33 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:21 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:20 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:18 pm
Isabelle77 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:07 pm
BespokeBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:21 pm
re: Oblivious drivers toodling along in the Left lane on WA highways:

I had to laugh when I read this point (made by a poster above) bc it's really true in my experience. I live in the SF Bay Area and do road trips to Seattle to see various immediate & extended family pretty regularly -- just returned from one 3 wks ago.

Somewhere in OR (on I-5 North) you begin to see this species of driver. In WA they seem to become more noticeable. It's a very small percentage, mind you, but really stands out compared to what I've experienced here in CA or on highways in the East. To an outsider it comes off at very least as poor driving etiquette. In some instances where the drivers are clearly aware of cars stacked behind them, it feels like the passive-aggressive raise of a middle finger; in others, some alternative between cautious oblivion or strong pot. Dunno... Maybe it's a Nordic lineage thing -- self-appointed hall monitors stepping up to regulate highway speed.
Hmmm...perhaps we should discuss what us Washington drivers think about California drivers... :shock: It isn't passive-aggressive, it's just cultural and you know, it rains a lot :)
So you’re saying that the people living in a place where it rains constantly are too incompetent to figure out how to safely, competently, and politely drive in the rain?
ha, you should see it when it snows! You'd think no one in Western Washington had ever seen a snowflake before.
I was living in cap hill when the busses were sliding down the roads I was in complete astonishment.
It’s absolutely unbelievable. Of course if local governments would spring for a few plows and SALT, life would be better. They just sit around and wait for the snow to melt. My kids had 11 snow days one year for a stubborn 4 or 5 inches.

upperleftcoast
Posts: 22
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by upperleftcoast » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:48 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:05 pm
upperleftcoast wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:53 pm
Seattle is great. Two main obstacles: COL and traffic. Both can be minimized.
Pick a good neighborhood with a reasonable commute. Public transit. Your company will pay.
Mild climate, easy living. The rain is overrated.
I make far less than you (single, no kids) and have a fantastic life in Seattle. Came from the East Coast too. You should be fine.
Loads of activities outside of work. And when you need a break the airport is right down the road.
What neighborhoods would you target to look in?
Sorry for late response.
Lifelong renter. Priced out. Works for me, though.
You'll be working in South Lake Union? Can live there, but it's tight. Not much greenery.
Queen Anne is great. I don't touch my car on weekdays. Can walk to all amenities. Could bus / bike / even run to SLU. Not much available housing inventory, however.
I've also lived in the Tangletown area of Greenlake. Super nice. Easy bus to downtown.
Magnolia is farther west, more conservative, less congested. Close to Puget Sound and lovely Discovery Park.
As mentioned, Bainbridge Is. Much quieter, ferry commute.
Less familiar with other neighborhoods, but there are many worth considering. Maple Leaf, Fremont, Ballard, Madison Park, others.

Lived here 30 years and manage to avoid the listed complaints.
Seattle has long since been "discovered". Expensive and crowded. Done right, very high quality of life.

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burt
Posts: 706
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by burt » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:33 pm

DonIce wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:43 am
JTColton wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am
Can confirm the homeless issue is horrible. The people who don’t see it I’m not sure where you are living or hanging out. There are homeless passed out in every public restroom in Pike’s Market, packs of stoned aggressive homeless that accost you for money (never for food though). If you want to have a croissant at le Panier or a bite to eat at Etta’s or standing in line for Moore Theatre they will just stand there staring at you until you give them something or get aggressive in return. At night they sleep in doorways and overhangs and tent cities. The tent cities are a blight on a once beautiful city. Picture a landfill, an open sewer and a trap house combined. Feces and needles everywhere but high $$ camping tents. This is in the city proper ie downtown, the outer neighborhoods are not as bad but still has some issues depending on where you are.
Here's an obligatory link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pAi70WWBlw
Wow, that's quite the documentary. Not the Seattle I remember from 20 years ago.
When living in Houston, I told my wife I could retire here if I had enough money to make the problems go away.

burt

Traveler
Posts: 721
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Traveler » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:20 pm

Many people posted about all of the outdoor activities available in the area. I grew up in Portland where they have similar outdoor activities, likely closer to the city than in Seattle and a bit better weather. However, unless you like traipsing through mud, those outdoor activities are usually limited to 2-3 months a year (exception is skiing which is almost year round). Don't underestimate the weather. While the PNW doesn't get heavy rain and thunderstorms very often, it has more than its share of drizzly, cloudy, dark dreary days. They can go weeks without seeing the sun and then it might poke out for five minutes one afternoon but if you were in a meeting or blinked, you missed it that month. August and September are usually pretty good but otherwise it's a lot of gray.

ronno2018
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:31 am

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by ronno2018 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:20 pm

MindBogler wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:43 pm
ronno2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:40 pm
The homeless problem and urban cleanliness is not as bad as people mention, a lot of sincere people are working on solutions. I think it is better than a few years ago.
Seattle, Portland and San Francisco look like something out of a post apocalyptic film most nights. There are feces, vomit and needles everywhere. Tents and passed out people litter the streets. A shameful deterioration of once beautiful cities.
Dude, where do you live? Sorry but those are just talking points from certain news networks that like to bash cities. Yes there are problems, but tons of awesome people and great neighborhoods. Don't be fearful.

I would never say the rural areas are full of meth labs and opioid addicts living off the teat of the welfare state. But i could!

ronno2018
Posts: 63
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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by ronno2018 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:25 pm

burt wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:33 pm
DonIce wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:43 am
JTColton wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am
Can confirm the homeless issue is horrible. The people who don’t see it I’m not sure where you are living or hanging out. There are homeless passed out in every public restroom in Pike’s Market, packs of stoned aggressive homeless that accost you for money (never for food though). If you want to have a croissant at le Panier or a bite to eat at Etta’s or standing in line for Moore Theatre they will just stand there staring at you until you give them something or get aggressive in return. At night they sleep in doorways and overhangs and tent cities. The tent cities are a blight on a once beautiful city. Picture a landfill, an open sewer and a trap house combined. Feces and needles everywhere but high $$ camping tents. This is in the city proper ie downtown, the outer neighborhoods are not as bad but still has some issues depending on where you are.
Here's an obligatory link:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pAi70WWBlw
Wow, that's quite the documentary. Not the Seattle I remember from 20 years ago.
When living in Houston, I told my wife I could retire here if I had enough money to make the problems go away.

burt
That is a known biased opinion piece not a documentary -- https://www.kuow.org/stories/homelessne ... out-it-all .

Yes there are problems in west coast cities and we need to address them. Good people are working on it. I am no fan of the mayor currently. Let see what she does.

Isabelle77
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:43 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Isabelle77 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:30 pm

ronno2018 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:25 pm
burt wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:33 pm
DonIce wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:43 am
JTColton wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am
Can confirm the homeless issue is horrible. The people who don’t see it I’m not sure where you are living or hanging out. There are homeless passed out in every public restroom in Pike’s Market, packs of stoned aggressive homeless that accost you for money (never for food though). If you want to have a croissant at le Panier or a bite to eat at Etta’s or standing in line for Moore Theatre they will just stand there staring at you until you give them something or get aggressive in return. At night they sleep in doorways and overhangs and tent cities. The tent cities are a blight on a once beautiful city. Picture a landfill, an open sewer and a trap house combined. Feces and needles everywhere but high $$ camping tents. This is in the city proper ie downtown, the outer neighborhoods are not as bad but still has some issues depending on where you are.
Here's an obligatory link:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pAi70WWBlw
Wow, that's quite the documentary. Not the Seattle I remember from 20 years ago.
When living in Houston, I told my wife I could retire here if I had enough money to make the problems go away.

burt
That is a known biased opinion piece not a documentary -- https://www.kuow.org/stories/homelessne ... out-it-all .

Yes there are problems in west coast cities and we need to address them. Good people are working on it. I am no fan of the mayor currently. Let see what she does.
Took my young teen daughter to see a concert about a year ago in Seattle. The mostly naked couple having relations on the sidewalk at 6am when we went to catch the train home was the least of the things we saw that trip. These “good people” need to do more.

Trader Joe
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:38 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Trader Joe » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:35 pm

Take the job. A fiance is just that, not a spouse.

ronno2018
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:31 am

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by ronno2018 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:39 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:30 pm
ronno2018 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:25 pm
burt wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:33 pm
DonIce wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:43 am
JTColton wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am
Can confirm the homeless issue is horrible. The people who don’t see it I’m not sure where you are living or hanging out. There are homeless passed out in every public restroom in Pike’s Market, packs of stoned aggressive homeless that accost you for money (never for food though). If you want to have a croissant at le Panier or a bite to eat at Etta’s or standing in line for Moore Theatre they will just stand there staring at you until you give them something or get aggressive in return. At night they sleep in doorways and overhangs and tent cities. The tent cities are a blight on a once beautiful city. Picture a landfill, an open sewer and a trap house combined. Feces and needles everywhere but high $$ camping tents. This is in the city proper ie downtown, the outer neighborhoods are not as bad but still has some issues depending on where you are.
Here's an obligatory link:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pAi70WWBlw
Wow, that's quite the documentary. Not the Seattle I remember from 20 years ago.
When living in Houston, I told my wife I could retire here if I had enough money to make the problems go away.

burt
That is a known biased opinion piece not a documentary -- https://www.kuow.org/stories/homelessne ... out-it-all .

Yes there are problems in west coast cities and we need to address them. Good people are working on it. I am no fan of the mayor currently. Let see what she does.
Took my young teen daughter to see a concert about a year ago in Seattle. The mostly naked couple having relations on the sidewalk at 6am when we went to catch the train home was the least of the things we saw that trip. These “good people” need to do more.
That sounds horrible, sorry that happened. Did you call 911? Areas around the train stations are the worst.

Isabelle77
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:43 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by Isabelle77 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:51 pm

ronno2018 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:39 pm
Isabelle77 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:30 pm
ronno2018 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:25 pm
burt wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:33 pm
DonIce wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:43 am


Here's an obligatory link:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pAi70WWBlw
Wow, that's quite the documentary. Not the Seattle I remember from 20 years ago.
When living in Houston, I told my wife I could retire here if I had enough money to make the problems go away.

burt
That is a known biased opinion piece not a documentary -- https://www.kuow.org/stories/homelessne ... out-it-all .

Yes there are problems in west coast cities and we need to address them. Good people are working on it. I am no fan of the mayor currently. Let see what she does.
Took my young teen daughter to see a concert about a year ago in Seattle. The mostly naked couple having relations on the sidewalk at 6am when we went to catch the train home was the least of the things we saw that trip. These “good people” need to do more.
That sounds horrible, sorry that happened. Did you call 911? Areas around the train stations are the worst.
Listen, we could go back and forth on this all day. I live in the Portland area, and you and I both know that 911 would do nothing. It's serious problem, I love the PNW, I advised the OP to take the job, but to pretend that there isn't a serious issue that is ruining the city is just false.

DonIce
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by DonIce » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:07 pm

ronno2018 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:25 pm
That is a known biased opinion piece not a documentary -- https://www.kuow.org/stories/homelessne ... out-it-all .

Yes there are problems in west coast cities and we need to address them. Good people are working on it. I am no fan of the mayor currently. Let see what she does.
All documentaries are opinion pieces. None present nothing but dry facts, they all present a mix of facts and opinions. The question is does it present a reasonably accurate representation of reality. Based on living in Seattle, I would say yes, very much so. I walk past insane people raving and yelling on corners on the street every day, just as shown in the documentary. I find needles and human feces in parks, exactly as shown in the documentary. The streets in certain areas reek of urine, exactly as shown in the documentary. Small businesses shut down and move elsewhere when they can't handle the crime and filth that is on their doorstep (which also drives away customers), exactly as shown in the documentary. My car windows have been smashed multiple times when I've accidentally left anything at all visible, even just dirty clothes or a water bottle or a parking pass (I now carefully look in from all directions whenever I leave my car to make sure I didn't accidentally leave any visible items). There goes ~$500 every time to repair the glass so that a homeless person can try to sell my dirty gym pants for $1 or something to help fund their next dose. Amazon packages have been stolen from my front door, multiple times (I now have them shipped to work instead). I see people shooting up and then passing out in public in broad daylight in Ballard. I've called the police a few times and just had them tell me "sorry, we can't do anything about that" (I don't bother calling anymore). And the city is completely unwilling to do anything about it, exactly as stated in the documentary.

As for what the mayor does, it seems very clear from the link you posted that she doesn't think she can do anything and is not planning to do anything meaningful. "Good people working on it" is how we got to where we are today. We need some "not so good" people to work on it. Ones that are willing to enforce the law, or even make new law as necessary to clean up the city, even if it means someone might be offended or inconvenienced.

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Re: Relocating to Seattle from Baltimore Area

Post by oldcomputerguy » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:49 am

This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted). See: Locked Topics
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