"The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

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Taylor Larimore
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"The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:50 am

Bogleheads:

How does your state rank as a place to retire?

The best and worst U.S. states for retirement

Best wishes.
Taylor
Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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btenny
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by btenny » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 pm

Arizona is down to 14 on this list which is fine by me. That will stop some from moving there. But I am surprised at their numbers as they seem wrong on affordability and quality of life vs say Virginia and Utah. Plus I see no reason why Minnesota is so much higher than Florida and Arizona in QOL. Up there you have to hibernate for six months to not freeze.

[OT comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by livesoft » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:21 pm

I like to split my time between a couple of states: Bliss and Ignorance.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by HawkeyePierce » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:54 pm

If all goes according to plan (ha!) I'd hit early retirement in about 15 years. Tentatively my thinking is that I'll split my time between Texas and Colorado. Specifically, San Antonio. Not yet sure where in CO—possibly somewhere between Boulder and Fort Collins or maybe up in the mountains a little bit. I'd spend about a third of the year up in CO and the rest in Texas. Summers in the mountains, winters in the Hill Country. Best of both worlds.

Low COL in San Antonio and reasonable COL in Colorado. Both metros have excellent healthcare. The tax situation is quite manageable. Easy access to international airports (well, San Antonio not so much but it's a quick connecting flight from there to DFW or IAH).

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by S&L1940 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:58 pm

Send out the word, Florida is full up
We have enough for now

Truth be known (or my opinion), any state that offers a climate that gets people outside to walk or play (where tennis and golf can be played all year long) is a good place to be.
There is a lot to be said for longevity
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by rick51 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:15 pm

I once lamented to a Floridian friend that by the time I was ready to retire all the real estate in Florida would be gone. He said with a wry smile,not to worry, a third of the real estate in Florida is for sale every day.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the ... ation.html

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by celia » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:29 pm

South Dakota, the second-best state, has the second-highest total workforce consisting of people aged 65 or older.
This doesn't sound like it should be second-best, if you will have to continue working. Is that supposed to be what they do
in retirement?

rick51 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:15 pm
I once lamented to a Floridian friend that by the time I was ready to retire all the real estate in Florida would be gone. He said with a wry smile,not to worry, a third of the real estate in Florida is for sale every day.
That's likely because of the turn-over after death (or needing to move to a nursing home).

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by baconavocado » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:33 pm

This survey ranked states on affordability, quality of life, and health care. For anyone planning to move for retirement, I'd advise trying to find a place that agrees with your political views in addition to the metrics measured here. I once lived in a place that was mostly opposed to the way I think and it was constant source of stress.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by quantAndHold » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:33 pm

Nobody is average. My personal situation is different than the averages, and different than any individual making the same decision.

I live in California because it is low cost and high quality for me. It might not be for someone else, especially if they aren’t already here. I’ve been to all of the “top 10” states in this article, and I would only ever consider living in one of them. The rest either have quality of life issues that I don’t want to have to deal with, or they would be more expensive than where I already am.

I think the biggest error the article makes in its methodology is not considering quality of life issues. Weather, amenities, etc. I suppose a website called “Wallet Hub” could be forgiven for that, but it is a big miss.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by SpringMan » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:35 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:21 pm
I like to split my time between a couple of states: Bliss and Ignorance.
Just one state if you consider the adage that ignorance is bliss. :happy
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by HueyLD » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:38 pm

All I can say is that what's good for one may be trash for another.

Money is only one of many factors in choosing a retirement location.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Tycoon » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:58 pm

South Dakota? I don't think I've ever heard, or read, of anyone retiring to South Dakota. Maybe it's the hidden gem I've been searching for.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by JackoC » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:01 pm

btenny wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 pm
Arizona is down to 14 on this list which is fine by me. ... Plus I see no reason why Minnesota is so much higher than Florida and Arizona in QOL.

[OT comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy]
FL is number 1 in that particular study, not behind MN. Here's another ranking where SD is No 1, FL is No. 5, AZ No. 29.
https://clark.com/personal-finance-cred ... tire-2018/

I also don't think it's 'bad statistics' so much, which would imply there are 'good statistics' to get a single ranking everyone would agree on, which doesn't exist. The value I see in surveys like this is mainly to call people's attention to states they might not have thought about, like say SD, as opposed to ranking states everyone or most people already think of as retirement states, like FL or AZ.

Obviously weather is one big thing. We've toyed with eventually moving from NJ, which no one thinks is a low cost retirement state or has great weather. Although OTOH we live very close to NY, the City, and that's a unique place in the world, though not everyone's cup of tea. But AZ is very far away (and has an income tax), FL is miserably humid outdoors a lot of the year plus storm threat (especially where the heat is a little less oppressive), and demographics matter particularly as in places where most people lack deep roots, which tends to go with less safety. It's very safe where we live in our experience of decades, which is not something to easily give up for the unknown. I don't know if we'll ever move, but eg. SD being cold in the winter is not an absolute disqualification IMO*. Nor is DE ranking 11th (19th in the study I linked) too low given how close it is to NJ.

*also, significant difference between northern MN and southern SD; my daughter used to live in MN, it's close to unlivable for most outsiders in the colder places. It's more within reason, though still cold, at the southern end.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:12 pm

baconavocado wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:33 pm
This survey ranked states on affordability, quality of life, and health care. For anyone planning to move for retirement, I'd advise trying to find a place that agrees with your political views in addition to the metrics measured here. I once lived in a place that was mostly opposed to the way I think and it was constant source of stress.
^^^ I could not live in most of the highly ranked retirement states for this reason.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by heyyou » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:24 pm

The postings since the OP show some width of the spectrum of opinions about what suits retirees. The article shows what suits the authors of the article.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by elgob.bogle » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:26 pm

I wonder how much, if any, of South Dakota's ranking is due to RV enthusiasts that travel around the US camping, but use South Dakota as a base state for tax purposes. If one looks online, you can see a number of sites that offer to process South Dakota residency packages at low fees for RV & other users. I've thought of doing it, but I am already established in Florida.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by midareff » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:27 pm

S&L1940 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:58 pm
Send out the word, Florida is full up
We have enough for now

Truth be known (or my opinion), any state that offers a climate that gets people outside to walk or play (where tennis and golf can be played all year long) is a good place to be.
There is a lot to be said for longevity
and for no state income tax

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Youngblood » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:31 pm

celia wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:29 pm
South Dakota, the second-best state, has the second-highest total workforce consisting of people aged 65 or older.
This doesn't sound like it should be second-best, if you will have to continue working. Is that supposed to be what they do
in retirement?

rick51 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:15 pm
I once lamented to a Floridian friend that by the time I was ready to retire all the real estate in Florida would be gone. He said with a wry smile,not to worry, a third of the real estate in Florida is for sale every day.
That's likely because of the turn-over after death (or needing to move to a nursing home).
Yes, Florida is God's waiting room.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by KCRoyals » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:40 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:58 pm
South Dakota? I don't think I've ever heard, or read, of anyone retiring to South Dakota. Maybe it's the hidden gem I've been searching for.
Summers are pretty great. My in-laws live near the Missouri River and it is nice! Good temperatures and lots to do outside.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Top99% » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:53 pm

I am not surprised my state of Texas is rated mid-pack and certainly Austin where we live isn't cheap. But, at least with property tax centric states you can somewhat control your tax burden by spending less on housing and it motivated us to minimize our housing costs which is a good thing in other ways. My wife doesn't do humidity or temperatures with minus signs in front of them (even in C) so _that_ eliminated quite a few places. I need to be able to kayak, cycle, hike and photograph wildlife. My wife and I both need access to high end restaurants so Austin is working for us.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by A440 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:55 pm

Maybe NJ would have rated better if the NJ Legislature hadn't tabled the cannabis legislation. :mrgreen:
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by JackoC » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:03 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:33 pm
Nobody is average. My personal situation is different than the averages, and different than any individual making the same decision.

...
I think the biggest error the article makes in its methodology is not considering quality of life issues. Weather, amenities, etc. I suppose a website called “Wallet Hub” could be forgiven for that, but it is a big miss.
The first is obviously true. But on the second here's that particular study's methodology
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-wors ... ethodology
It is not excluding QOL, though affordability/QOL/healthcare is 40/30/30, and weather, which a lot of casual retirement discussions seem to give huge weight to, is only 2.6% of the total.

Also a fairer (IMO) criticism of the methodology from the POV of somebody decided to move to X state or not is that a number of the sub-items measure the well being of people already in that state. For example, under affordability it counts % of people over 65 who can't afford a doctor visit, and under healthcare % of people over 65 who are obese, poor mental health etc. That's not as directly relevant as for example income tax rate or number of top rated geriatrics hospitals under health care; things which would directly depend on where *I* live.

You can always come up with a different method, see link I posted above of another recent study with somewhat different ranking, but in that one SD was No 1. From reading into these in more detail, I don't think it's a fluke SD does so well: low tax/cost, significant healthcare cluster southeast part of the state, good social statistics as the Upper Midwest tends to have and generally affects all these types of ratings. And which does have relevance cumulatively: lots of people in your state in bad situations is going to affect you, even if not as directly as your housing cost, say.

Whereas you like CA, and I don't dislike NJ where I live (I just sometimes look at income/prop taxes bills we could cut by more than some people's whole spending budgets if we moved to a low tax state). But there's no way either of those states would come out near the top as a place to retire on any reasonable methodology applying to the public in general. CA is 25th in OP study, 45th in the one I linked; NJ is 46th and 32nd respectively. Which shows that methodology can shuffle things significantly, but still, neither state is going to be near the top in any reasonably conducted general survey, and general survey's aren't calls for people to pick up and move from places they individually like.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by zymurgist » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:17 pm

Illinois did better than I thought. Retirement income being exempt from state income tax certainly helps. No personal property taxes may also help, but high real estate taxes in comparison to most other states likely cancel this out. Outside of metro Chicago, the cost of living apart from taxes is generally around the national average at worst. The financial condition of state government is probably the biggest strike against the state.

All that said, I've always thought it's a shame far southern Illinois (~250 to 300 miles south of I-80 for all the Chicagoans out there :D ) isn't more of a retirement destination. The Shawnee National Forest region is beautiful country that doesn't fit the cornfields stereotype of much of the state. Winters are notably milder and shorter than in Chicago and the northern part of the state, plus it's not far from areas of Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Missouri that are retirement destinations. On top of the previously mentioned exemption for retirement income, real estate taxes there tend to be significantly lower than other parts of the state. It just seems like the area should be doing better in drawing retirees. Again, the fiscal condition of state government, a regional economy that has struggled for a long time, and the distance from larger urban areas like St. Louis, Memphis, Nashville, and significantly farther away, Chicago, all likely don't help.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by grok87 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:29 pm

here's a link to the actual study.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-wors ... ire/18592/

I think this is useful because you can see the subrankings for affordability, quality of life and healthcare.

for example Minnesota is in the bottom quintile for affordability but is ranked #1 for quality of life and #1 for healthcare.
seems like a possibly attractive trade off to me...
i.e. maybe you get what you pay for...

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by bengal22 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm

These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by HueyLD » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:43 pm

baconavocado wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:33 pm
This survey ranked states on affordability, quality of life, and health care. For anyone planning to move for retirement, I'd advise trying to find a place that agrees with your political views in addition to the metrics measured here. I once lived in a place that was mostly opposed to the way I think and it was constant source of stress.
Even within the same metro, there will be neighborhoods where most residents tend to be politically like minded and it is possible to avoid them if your political view does not agree with theirs.

However, it is probably best to avoid political, religious and financial discussions.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by mariezzz » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:26 pm

If I die, never having been to FL, I will die happy. Nothing would entice me to move there. But I think it's great that other people like it ... they are less likely to want to move to the places I would choose to live in!

As always, the specifics matter. If you're in retirement and you've organized your portfolio such that you most withdrawals aren't going to subject you to taxable income, does a state's income taxes matter? For property taxes, you can always find higher and lower tax communities, and/or purchase a house with lower value, so lower property taxes.
Last edited by mariezzz on Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:28 pm

23. Maine. My happy place. Wouldn’t think of living anywhere else. Ocean, mountains, lakes, 4 seasons. No traffic - unless you decide to drive around Acadia NP in July.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by JustinR » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:32 pm

Doesn't Florida get freak hurricanes every few years? No thanks.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Starfish » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:39 pm

S&L1940 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:58 pm
Send out the word, Florida is full up
We have enough for now

Truth be known (or my opinion), any state that offers a climate that gets people outside to walk or play (where tennis and golf can be played all year long) is a good place to be.
There is a lot to be said for longevity

There is no state like that in south US except California but even then is rainy.
Heat is much worse than cold for outdoor activities.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by doss » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:44 pm

HawkeyePierce wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:54 pm
If all goes according to plan (ha!) I'd hit early retirement in about 15 years. Tentatively my thinking is that I'll split my time between Texas and Colorado. Specifically, San Antonio. Not yet sure where in CO—possibly somewhere between Boulder and Fort Collins or maybe up in the mountains a little bit. I'd spend about a third of the year up in CO and the rest in Texas. Summers in the mountains, winters in the Hill Country. Best of both worlds.

Low COL in San Antonio and reasonable COL in Colorado. Both metros have excellent healthcare. The tax situation is quite manageable. Easy access to international airports (well, San Antonio not so much but it's a quick connecting flight from there to DFW or IAH).
What part of hill country? I’m in Fredericksburg. Love it , but getting expensive!

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Ged » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:49 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:33 pm
Nobody is average. My personal situation is different than the averages, and different than any individual making the same decision.
Agreed. I live in NJ which is supposed to be one of the worst. Well for me it's the best because I can afford it and I'm close to friends and family here.

This is not a useful guide to retirement. People's circumstances vary too much.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by neilpilot » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:57 pm

mariezzz wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:26 pm
If I die, never having been to FL, I will die happy. Nothing would entice me to move there. But I think it's great that other people like it ... they are less likely to want to move to the places I would choose to live in!

As always, the specifics matter. If you're in retirement and you've organized your portfolio such that you most withdrawals aren't going to subject you to taxable income, does a state's income taxes matter? For property taxes, you can always find higher and lower tax communities, and/or purchase a house with lower value, so lower property taxes.
That's a pretty simplistic view, that seems to assume the majority of retirement income is sourced from investments. While that may be true for some, I assume many BHs are like us, and a significant amount of their total annual income is taxable. Our pensions are taxable, and there's no way we can escape the 85% taxable portion of our SS. So even if you can manage to move all tIRA investments into a Roth, maybe state income taxes still matter in those states that don't exempt pension & SS income.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm

bengal22 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm
These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
For good reason in this case. The methods used to derive the rankings are obviously very flawed.

For instance, while it's already been shown that $1 million lasts longer in Mississippi than in any other state, this study ranks MS 43rd because life expectancies there are low. So moving there will be hazardous to a retiree's health because you will 'catch obesity', the primary cause of MS's low life expectancy, but you won't two states over in Florida? And then they rank South Dakota as #2, despite the extremely harsh winters (I lived in ND for five years, so I have a really good idea of what they're like)?

It's just clickbait.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by btenny » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm

Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:25 pm

btenny wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm
Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
And yet South Dakota, one state to the west, is #2 overall? I completely agree. It's junk. But thankfully, I have a hard time believing that any sane person would actually rely on such a 'study' to determine whether they want to spend their golden years.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by tennisplyr » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm

Hard to argue with Florida (especially Sarasota) at #1......I'm good :happy
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by MN-Investor » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:30 pm

btenny wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm
Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
My boss used to comment that, for the majority of the year, the natural state of water in Minnesota is ice. :)
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by tooluser » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:32 pm

Family: As far as I can tell, most people retire to near where the rest of their family is. Most is not all, but it's a major consideration not included in the referenced article, nor any study I have ever seen.

Taxes: What I'd like to see is an unbiased (ha!) study that estimates the value received for taxes paid. Some places are really good for families, some for businesses, some for retirees, and (I suspect) some for nobody. Most places seem to get you one way or another, but there are differences. Excellent website: https://www.taxadmin.org/2017-state-tax-revenue

Healthcare: Every state has good healthcare available near the major metropolitan areas. Some have good healthcare elsewhere too.

Climate: To each his own. I'm always amazed how much this factor centers in so many peoples' lives. Weather is variable everywhere, and barring some specific health issue, a preference for any particular type is just that.

Walkability often factors into many of these articles as well. That tilts people towards the center of major metropolitan areas, which is correlated with access to health care. That's double-dipping. It also ignores the quality-of-life downsides to living in a major metropolitan area such as smog, crime, traffic, and noise.

Every study is flawed. You have to do your own.
The discovery of America, and that of a passage to the East Indies by the Cape of Good Hope, are the two greatest and most important events recorded in the history of mankind. -- Adam Smith, 1776

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:46 pm

tooluser wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:32 pm
Every study is flawed. You have to do your own.
No study is perfect, to be sure. But the flaws in this study are egregious.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by bearcub » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:57 pm

Theirs a saying here in NJ. The last private sector retiree to leave the state, don"t forget to turn out the lights. Number 2 ranked state for folks fleeing it. To expensive, unless you are getting a state pension. I do like parts of my state, however I will be leaving soon myself.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by juliewongferra » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:01 pm

btenny wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm
Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
Grok,

I agree with you that the survey is junk, but enough with the Minnesota hate! Your trash is someone else's treasure. Others may not like another state's heat/humidity, frequent tornados, politics, lack of access to beaches, lack of public transportation, too much traffic, lack of nature, lack of....you get the idea.

cheers,
jwf
If you aren't familiar with Mr. Bogle and his investment philosophy, then you don't know Jack!

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Cosmo » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:05 pm

S&L1940 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:58 pm
Send out the word, Florida is full up
We have enough for now

Truth be known (or my opinion), any state that offers a climate that gets people outside to walk or play (where tennis and golf can be played all year long) is a good place to be.
There is a lot to be said for longevity
Having lived in SE Texas for over 25 years and having a good "taste" of Florida weather down here, I really struggle with this. Miserable heat and humidity for a good 7-8 months out of the year. Who wants to play golf in those sauna conditions? The combination of heat and humidity puts stress on people, especially the elderly. I really don't get it. How is this good for longevity?

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by juliewongferra » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:06 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:46 pm
tooluser wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:32 pm
Every study is flawed. You have to do your own.
No study is perfect, to be sure. But the flaws in this study are egregious.
I agree that this is a pretty useless study. Plus, even if it *was* useful, things change so much that it's not useful for any non-early retirees younger 40, maybe 50. Lots of changes (climate, taxes, laws, industry) will affect a state's desirability. (Of course, this gives them an excuse to churn out a "new, updated for year 20XX!!" clickbait study in a few years.)

cheers,
jwf
If you aren't familiar with Mr. Bogle and his investment philosophy, then you don't know Jack!

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Trader Joe » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:10 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:50 am
Bogleheads:

How does your state rank as a place to retire?

The best and worst U.S. states for retirement

Best wishes.
Taylor
Thank you very much for posting this Taylor. This will definitely help me on my next move.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by S&L1940 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:12 pm

celia wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:29 pm
rick51 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:15 pm
I once lamented to a Floridian friend that by the time I was ready to retire all the real estate in Florida would be gone. He said with a wry smile,not to worry, a third of the real estate in Florida is for sale every day.
That's likely because of the turn-over after death (or needing to move to a nursing home).
In my neck of the woods the builders are once again filling up all the open spaces, farms and nurseries are selling out. The average turnover for many communities, those moving or, whatever, is around 10%. And, yeah, independent living facilities are also a next step destination that are filling up.
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by juliewongferra » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:13 pm

btenny wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm
Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......

Sorry, grok, I misdirected my previous post that was supposed to address btenny.

But my point stands that btenny unnecessarily bashed MN. And the fact that btenny rejects the study based on the *results* is absurd, because you are just seeking confirmation bias.

The right way to question a study is not based on *results* you don't like, but on whether the survey *process* is reasonable, as willthrill81 does.

cheers,
jwf
If you aren't familiar with Mr. Bogle and his investment philosophy, then you don't know Jack!

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by munemaker » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:26 pm

My home state of PA is number 9. There are some nice financial benefits for retirement. The state does not tax retirement income such as IRA/401k withdrawals, Roth conversions, Pensions and Social Security. Local government only taxes earned income. Here in western PA, we have a really good health care network through UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center).

Still, I would not recommend that anyone move here. Our schools are strongly dependent on property taxes which hurts us retired people. Our gasoline tax is the highest in the entire country. The state government is very large, burdensome and backward. The state has the additional burden of subsidizing Philadelphia. The weather is mostly terrible too.
Last edited by munemaker on Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by munemaker » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:27 pm

tennisplyr wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm
Hard to argue with Florida (especially Sarasota) at #1......I'm good :happy
The Florida summers are very humid. I can't imagine playing pickleball in July and August. Do people really do that?

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Spirit Rider » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:39 pm

This study like all other attempts to apply an arbitrary and subjective model to a fixed set of metrics is of little real value.

This is true of things like Consumer Reports product evaluations, Morningstar mutual fund ratings, and Saving for College 529 plan ratings.

The overall scores/ratings are pretty much meaningless. The real value is drilling down to the compilation of the raw data and substituting your own prioritizations.

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