Tesla Model Y

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4nursebee
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Tesla Model Y

Post by 4nursebee » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:12 pm

Anyone else keeping abreast of things tonight? The new crossover is being revealed.

I drove by my local service and sales centers today, all looked well. Not as many cars as end of quarter last. Of note, a freshly washed model 3 with temp tags turned off a side street I had not known of Tesla having space at. I circled back and they had additional space including several legit loading bays. There were several cars and more employees. The service center had more crates of what looked to be parts out back, many batteries and other crates that said they had glass in them.

We are test driving (TURO 7 day rental) a model three in a month, very excited!
I look forward to seeing the model Y!
4nursebee

randomguy
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by randomguy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:17 pm

Just add 12 months and 15k to whatever they announce😄 there are a ton on 2020-2022 EVs announced. Will have to see what ships and pick what meets your needs.

Thesaints
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Thesaints » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm

Holding my breath. In fact, I'd rather hold my breath in perpetuity than buy a Tesla (roadster excluded, perhaps).

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:12 pm

I’m pretty happy with my Model X, but a smaller crossover with regular doors might be nice. My current car is only 3 years old, so I probably won’t do anything for a while.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

Millennial
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Millennial » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:50 pm

randomguy wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:17 pm
Just add 12 months and 15k to whatever they announce😄 there are a ton on 2020-2022 EVs announced. Will have to see what ships and pick what meets your needs.
The timing comment is fair, but they hit their price commitment with the Model 3. Why think they won't this time?

dustinst22
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by dustinst22 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:27 pm

Millennial wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:50 pm

The timing comment is fair, but they hit their price commitment with the Model 3. Why think they won't this time?
True. You just have to be willing to wait years for the promise when the tax credit has been reduced and so long as its in black.

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matjen
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 pm

1) There is no factory
2) There is no line (that I am aware of assuming other cars continue to be made)
3) There are no test mules that have ever been photographed
4) There is no money to build it
5) there won't be a Model Y (if ever) for 3 years.
6) Where is the roadster and semi?


The real question is what will be revealed? Will they continue this gofundme/ponzi scheme and ask for $$ up front years in advance. Who would be stupid enough to give them money given the history here?
Last edited by matjen on Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Thesaints » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:12 pm

matjen wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 pm
6) Where is the roadster and semi?
The Saudi sovereign wealth fund bought all of them !

randomguy
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by randomguy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:26 pm

Millennial wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:50 pm
randomguy wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:17 pm
Just add 12 months and 15k to whatever they announce😄 there are a ton on 2020-2022 EVs announced. Will have to see what ships and pick what meets your needs.
The timing comment is fair, but they hit their price commitment with the Model 3. Why think they won't this time?
How many 60k model S were sold? Seem to remember the X also picking up 10k😁 The comment is more though that when you hear 40k, realize that they car you want to buy is going to be 50k+. It is about managing expectations. But man 2k for paint is expensive even by German car standards.

Thesaints
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Thesaints » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:45 pm

BMW charges $500 for paint and you get an actual dashboard, not just an iPad and 4 screws.

gtd98765
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by gtd98765 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:33 pm

The iPad display took two days to get used to. Now I switch back between my ICE car and my Model 3 with no concerns about where to look for speed, etc.

FoolStreet
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:56 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:12 pm
Anyone else keeping abreast of things tonight? The new crossover is being revealed.

I drove by my local service and sales centers today, all looked well. Not as many cars as end of quarter last. Of note, a freshly washed model 3 with temp tags turned off a side street I had not known of Tesla having space at. I circled back and they had additional space including several legit loading bays. There were several cars and more employees. The service center had more crates of what looked to be parts out back, many batteries and other crates that said they had glass in them.

We are test driving (TURO 7 day rental) a model three in a month, very excited!
I look forward to seeing the model Y!
It’s either this or the new Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. I want the Y.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by EHEngineer » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:03 pm

Looks like a winner to me. 75% commonality with 3 means relatively easy startup as compared to X or 3. I really like the blacked out window trim and door handles.
Or, you can ... decline to let me, a stranger on the Internet, egg you on to an exercise in time-wasting, and you could say "I'm probably OK and I don't care about it that much." -Nisiprius

FoolStreet
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:07 pm

EHEngineer wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:03 pm
Looks like a winner to me. 75% commonality with 3 means relatively easy startup as compared to X or 3. I really like the blacked out window trim and door handles.
The 3 is amazing and the 3 AWD handles wonderfully in the snow. Passed a BMW X3 spun out, Audi wheels locking up and Subaru’s in an ice train. Really enjoy this car.

I told a friend I spent 35 bucks on gas the last 3 months. He said, I spent that last night! :-o

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matjen
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:29 pm

That car (which is what it is) is just a Model 3 with a body kit. It is so lame that Muskspent 95% of the reveal talking about other things lol. By the time it gets to markets there will be no tax credits and stiff competition. It is basically what BMW calls a grand turismo. A slight variation of the Model 3.

Why were there no detailed close ups and why was the lighting so horrid?
Last edited by matjen on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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btenny
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by btenny » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:31 pm

What is a Subaru ice train? I live in Tahoe and drive a Subaru and it works great in snow and ice... And I guarantee you that my Subaru will run circles around that low to the ground Model 3 Tesla.. And it will not high center on the snow and ice berm in the center of the US 50 or the ice berm in my driveway..........

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by dustinst22 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:38 pm

matjen wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:29 pm
That car (which is what it is) is just a Model 3 with a body kit. It is so lame that Muskspent 95% of the reveal talking about other things lol. By the time it gets to markets there will be no tax credits and stiff competition. It is basically what BMW calls a grand turismo. A slight variation of the Model 3.
Agree, it was totally underwhelming. Its just another model 3 variation, nothing more. Tesla has really lost its edge.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:41 pm

btenny wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:31 pm
What is a Subaru ice train? I live in Tahoe and drive a Subaru and it works great in snow and ice... And I guarantee you that my Subaru will run circles around that low to the ground Model 3 Tesla.. And it will not high center on the snow and ice berm in the center of the US 50 or the ice berm in my driveway..........
I don't doubt you, which is why I was surprised to see the pile up including the two Subarus, one with chains and the other without. It was rte 120, level 2 road conditions, south of you, on a decline. I presume one of the cars in the front of the line got spooked going too fast at the corner and locked up, leading to a 6 car pile-up, although it wasn't quite as bad as the image you get when you hear "pile up." The Rangers said keep it under 35. I'm guessing they didn't and/or didn't give them enough room behind the cars in front of them to maneuver. I just drove around the cars and kept going.

Anyway, to be fair, I don't want to say that my 3AWD was better than the Subarus (maybe a better driver - lol), but at least as good :-)

Seriously though, the regenerative braking is a real nice way to maintain control on descent.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:38 pm
matjen wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:29 pm
That car (which is what it is) is just a Model 3 with a body kit. It is so lame that Muskspent 95% of the reveal talking about other things lol. By the time it gets to markets there will be no tax credits and stiff competition. It is basically what BMW calls a grand turismo. A slight variation of the Model 3.
Agree, it was totally underwhelming. Its just another model 3 variation, nothing more. Tesla has really lost its edge.
Dustin, they are focusing on the sweet spot for the growing SUV market. It wasnt as aggro as a Jeep Liberty or the new Rav4 Adventure model. But its clear they are laser focused on execution. Many, many folks haven't seen or driven a 3 yet. This will blow new consumers away. Sounds like Tesla is growing up.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by randomguy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:00 am

matjen wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:29 pm
That car (which is what it is) is just a Model 3 with a body kit. It is so lame that Muskspent 95% of the reveal talking about other things lol. By the time it gets to markets there will be no tax credits and stiff competition. It is basically what BMW calls a grand turismo. A slight variation of the Model 3.

Why were there no detailed close ups and why was the lighting so horrid?
This car is pretty much what the market wants. There are some details about things like trunk space and the like but the compact lifted hatchback is what everyone wants. Look at RAV4, crv, X3, cx5, Q5, GLC, Forrester,.... They are pretty much the best seller for ever car maker.

Now is this a better car than the Q4 or eqc? Let's check back in 18 months when we have a lot more details.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:07 am

randomguy wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:00 am
matjen wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:29 pm
That car (which is what it is) is just a Model 3 with a body kit. It is so lame that Muskspent 95% of the reveal talking about other things lol. By the time it gets to markets there will be no tax credits and stiff competition. It is basically what BMW calls a grand turismo. A slight variation of the Model 3.

Why were there no detailed close ups and why was the lighting so horrid?
This car is pretty much what the market wants. There are some details about things like trunk space and the like but the compact lifted hatchback is what everyone wants. Look at RAV4, crv, X3, cx5, Q5, GLC, Forrester,.... They are pretty much the best seller for ever car maker.

Now is this a better car than the Q4 or eqc? Let's check back in 18 months when we have a lot more details.
I watched Leno’s test drive with the EQC. It looked sharp and I would love to consider it. From what I remember, the range was in the lower half of 200miles EPA(maybe 240ish) and no supercharger network for road trips.

I’m obviously a Tesla fan (not affiliated in any way whatsoever except that I own a 3AWD), so I don’t want to flame the other cars. They will sell well. I’m just excited about the whole package of the car and charger network. I agree, let’s see where we are in 18mo. But at the very least gotta give props to the team at Tesla because I don’t think we would have this market innovation without them pushing the status quo.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by 4nursebee » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:44 am

I just watched a 12 min rehash, eh, ok. Did not get my blood pumping, kind of like BH investing.
I like the 66 ft3 of cargo space, much more than the 15 in the 3, and approaching the 73 in my current ride.
Could work for us.
4nursebee

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by walkerbait » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:35 am

I was unimpressed by the reveal...I mean it’s a model 3 with 2 extra seats instead of a trunk.

But the more I think about it, it could be a future car of mine. I have really wanted an X or even S with rear facing seats, but the price is way more than I’m willing to pay. The Y provides most of the electric experience, with seats for 7, at a lower price point. Not bad!

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:10 am

FoolStreet wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 pm
Dustin, they are focusing on the sweet spot for the growing SUV market. It wasnt as aggro as a Jeep Liberty or the new Rav4 Adventure model. But its clear they are laser focused on execution. Many, many folks haven't seen or driven a 3 yet. This will blow new consumers away. Sounds like Tesla is growing up.
Are you as confident in this take as you are in the 80-90 executives leaving just being them hitting their "internal career goals" take of yours (while leaving millions in options on the table)? I mean seriously? Is there anything Tesla can do or not do that you view negatively? Have you not paid attention the last month? Closing things, lay offs, not closing things, contempt charges, key personnel leaving, etc. The VP of Engineering resigned to nothing right after Musk announced this charade and posted a pic of their prior reveals security passes in an obvious jab at this half-baked event. It is obviously a kickstarter campaign to get $2,500 from true believers. Their brand is being destroyed...dropped like 30 places in one year. I hope no one bites. Let them build the car and get it reviewed and then buy it like a normie. I know you don't get to brag about the order in cocktail parties but trust me, what people thought may have been cool 5 years ago now is viewed as a sucker's play.

Image

I do agree that the small/medium crossover is the sweet spot in today's market. It was the sweet spot a few years ago as well. The kind of fully formed Model 3 should have been that. This is just an announcement with a mock up. They are nowhere near getting this into the market. Just as they are nowhere near driving one on Mars. LOL :P

Meanwhile the stock is tanking after this reveal (while the rest of the market is green)...what does that tell you?
Last edited by matjen on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by DanMahowny » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:33 am

The Model Y will never happen. Never. Happen. Tesla is plunging toward bankruptcy; it's inevitable.

The only thing that can stop it is to sell itself to another automaker, but it's current valuation remains ridiculous.

My short position looks better than ever.

I wish that Tesla would have remained a niche automaker, and manufactured only the Model S. That would've been a successful business model for the long term. The Model 3 was a huge mistake. It cheapened the brand. The damage is done.
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Strummer » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:33 am
The Model Y will never happen. Never. Happen. Tesla is plunging toward bankruptcy; it's inevitable.

The only thing that can stop it is to sell itself to another automaker, but it's current valuation remains ridiculous.

My short position looks better than ever.

I wish that Tesla would have remained a niche automaker, and manufactured only the Model S. That would've been a successful business model for the long term. The Model 3 was a huge mistake. It cheapened the brand. The damage is done.
But Dan, you told everyone Tesla would be out of business by the end of 2018! Looks like you're not tired of being wrong in public, though.

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matjen
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:08 am

Strummer wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 am

But Dan, you told everyone Tesla would be out of business by the end of 2018! Looks like you're not tired of being wrong in public, though.
There is a person on this thread who I will not name who has a price target of $2,000 MINIMUM... :oops:
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am

I was interested in discussions of the car, but once again a Tesla thread will become an ad hominem attack on its CEO and shorts “talking their book.” Unfollowing.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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steve50
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by steve50 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:30 am

Reading all the followup comments, I did not know that Bogleheads were that much into shorting stocks :)

For next Tesla thread, should have in subject line, for Tesla car owners ONLY!!

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by NewPhoneWhoDis » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:31 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:33 am
The Model Y will never happen. Never. Happen. Tesla is plunging toward bankruptcy; it's inevitable.

The only thing that can stop it is to sell itself to another automaker, but it's current valuation remains ridiculous.

My short position looks better than ever.

I wish that Tesla would have remained a niche automaker, and manufactured only the Model S. That would've been a successful business model for the long term. The Model 3 was a huge mistake. It cheapened the brand. The damage is done.
"Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you." - Emperor Palpatine

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TravelGeek » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:43 am

steve50 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:30 am
Reading all the followup comments, I did not know that Bogleheads were that much into shorting stocks :)

For next Tesla thread, should have in subject line, for Tesla car owners ONLY!!
I am not a Tesla car owner, but I am also not interested in many of the posts rehashing over and over again the same stuff. Best to ignore/not feed trolls, I think.

We currently have a 2018 LEAF for local/regional driving and a Forester for winter/long distance driving. I am looking forward to learning more about the Model Y as a possible replacement combining the two vehicles we have into one that meets all our requirements. I am also interested in learning how it will compare to other similar EVs coming out in the next few years. For the time being it appears the Supercharger network (and destination chargers) is a fairly significant advantage for painless road-tripping.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by ohai » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:52 am

Model Y though - it's just Tesla biding for more time. It is the same as Model 3, just with a lift kit. Yet, it is a new model, so Elon Musk is pretending that they still have something in the pipeline. In the mean time, Tesla still has the audacity to collect $2500 deposits on this car. I don't think Tesla will go out of business, but every day is a cash struggle for them.

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matjen
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:06 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am
I was interested in discussions of the car, but once again a Tesla thread will become an ad hominem attack on its CEO and shorts “talking their book.” Unfollowing.
Lulz. I don't think there is a single ad hominem attack on Elon Musk in this thread. Though there is a Model Y kind of, sort of. From what I am gathering via twitter responses to a Bloomberg reporter who covers Tesla, they literally used the same blue car for test drives. So there is ONE Model Y as of now which is little more than a mock up. I mean what is there to seriously talk about...?

EDIT: There was a second Model Y at the event but no one ever saw it move. No test drives in it, etc.
Last edited by matjen on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by dustinst22 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:09 am

ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:52 am
Model Y though - it's just Tesla biding for more time.
Exactly, it's just a ploy to get some cash infusion via deposits. Too many warning signs about this company. I wouldn't feel confident purchasing one. I was a sucker and had put down a deposit for a 3 back in 2017. Can't pull the same gimmick more than once.

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TimeRunner
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TimeRunner » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 am

By the time the standard Y model starts delivery in Fall 2020 (assuming no schedule slip, mmm), there will be many competing models. I wish Tesla all the best, but as a car shopper I'd wait and see what's available then.
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by themesrob » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:24 am

were I the type of person who bought cars new, this is first Tesla I think I would look at, based on the specs they advertised in terms of size/range/price. (Assuming I could get comfortable with that touch screen interface while driving.) Do I think we'll be seeing them shipped next year, based on the current state of the company and its production? Heck no

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by ohai » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:27 am

TimeRunner wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 am
By the time the standard Y model starts delivery in Fall 2020 (assuming no schedule slip, mmm), there will be many competing models. I wish Tesla all the best, but as a car shopper I'd wait and see what's available then.
1) Audi, Porsche, Volvo, Jaguar have announced cars that are better than Tesla, except maybe autopilot. Range and performance are similar, build quality of other cars is much better. Customer experience, especially post purchase, of other brands will be far superior, if today's Tesla experience is any indication.

2) Tesla's production line is still not as efficient as other brands. They can only produce cars at the current rate by burning cash in a way that would be intolerable to investors at any other company.

3) Tesla's new marketing direction is untested. Without physical stores, are as many customers going to put down deposits just based on internet ads and word of mouth?

But all is not lost, since Tesla still has this weird religious following and inexplicably strong brand appeal. 2y in Tesla time is a lot of time to address issues and improve. Hopefully, they can put some work in and stay ahead.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:40 am

I removed an off-topic rant criticizing the stability of Tesla as a company.

Please stay on-topic and state your concerns in a civil, factual, manner.
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by onourway » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:40 am

ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:27 am
TimeRunner wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 am
By the time the standard Y model starts delivery in Fall 2020 (assuming no schedule slip, mmm), there will be many competing models. I wish Tesla all the best, but as a car shopper I'd wait and see what's available then.
1) Audi, Porsche, Volvo, Jaguar have announced cars that are better than Tesla, except maybe autopilot. Range and performance are similar, build quality of other cars is much better. Customer experience, especially post purchase, of other brands will be far superior, if today's Tesla experience is any indication.

2) Tesla's production line is still not as efficient as other brands. They can only produce cars at the current rate by burning cash in a way that would be intolerable to investors at any other company.

3) Tesla's new marketing direction is untested. Without physical stores, are as many customers going to put down deposits just based on internet ads and word of mouth?

But all is not lost, since Tesla still has this weird religious following and inexplicably strong brand appeal. 2y in Tesla time is a lot of time to address issues and improve. Hopefully, they can put some work in and stay ahead.
With no charging infrastructure to speak of, all of the competition is dead on arrival. This has been obvious for years, was obvious to Tesla from the beginning, yet no other manufacturer is addressing it in a serious manner. You cannot sell electric vehicles in mass quantities without a charging system that is similar in scope, speed, and accessibility as the Supercharger network. Tesla had to build not only a car company, but this charging network entirely from the ground up. It's no wonder they've had to spend massive amounts of cash to do so.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by btenny » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:41 am

Is the Tesla Super charger network and interface patented and proprietary to Tesla? Or can other car makers build cars that can be recharged at these stations?

I thought Musk said the patents for this stuff were open for all takers? So no advantage for the charger network, correct?

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by onourway » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:46 am

btenny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:41 am
Is the Tesla Super charger network and interface patented and proprietary to Tesla? Or can other car makers build cars that can be recharged at these stations?

I thought Musk said the patents for this stuff were open for all takers? So no advantage for the charger network, correct?
In theory he is open to it, if they are willing to pay for their fair share of the network development and usage. In practice this may be a way of Tesla appearing to be open while restricting access to a very valuable asset. In any case there has been no competitor that has shown any serious sign of taking them up on this offer (publicly at least).

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by ohai » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm

Somewhat disagree. Other electric cars, like Nissan Leaf, have been around for a while. Supercharger network is surely an advantage, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for majority of people who charge the car in their garage and drive 30 miles a day.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by onourway » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:28 pm

ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm
Somewhat disagree. Other electric cars, like Nissan Leaf, have been around for a while. Supercharger network is surely an advantage, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for majority of people who charge the car in their garage and drive 30 miles a day.
I know many people who own Leafs, as well as Tesla’s and other EV’s. Leafs tend to be second or 3rd vehicles driven around town. Bought because they are cheap. People who buy $40-$80k EV’s which is squarely where the new offerings from Audi, et al are focused on expect them to be capable as acting as their primary vehicle.

randomguy
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by randomguy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:41 pm

onourway wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:40 am

With no charging infrastructure to speak of, all of the competition is dead on arrival. This has been obvious for years, was obvious to Tesla from the beginning, yet no other manufacturer is addressing it in a serious manner. You cannot sell electric vehicles in mass quantities without a charging system that is similar in scope, speed, and accessibility as the Supercharger network. Tesla had to build not only a car company, but this charging network entirely from the ground up. It's no wonder they've had to spend massive amounts of cash to do so.
Building a network if you don't have cars to use it is a waste of money. They VW network that is coming online over the next 18 months is a pretty solid start. It is better than what Tesla's was when the S launched. If VW, Audi, MB, and the rest can sell 500k+/year of cars that use the network, I have no doubts it will grow fast enough.

Tesla had a huge lead when the S launched (call 8 years or so). When the y launches, that lead is all but gone. Tesla is going to have to compete on execution as well as innovation. I hope they can but it is a transition that a lot of companies struggle with. Of course things can change. If they get self driving tech 5 years before everyone else, that would be huge. Of course getting it 5 years late would be rough😀

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by btenny » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm

Does the VW network you mention use the same electrical interface and quick charging plan as Tesla?

Or are we going to have a Beta vs VHS battle for EV cars???? So you have to drive to the exact matching EV charger for your car???

Plus from what I read this VW/Porsche Electrify America stuff is still is all view cells and talk at this point. No firm hardware. Plus they are talking about the car to grid technology which is more glue to slow down installing a charger network. So what is really going on besides talk????

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by squirm » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:56 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am
I was interested in discussions of the car, but once again a Tesla thread will become an ad hominem attack on its CEO and shorts “talking their book.” Unfollowing.
I was enjoying the good discussion too, but then quickly fell to crap.

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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by squirm » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:59 pm

ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm
Somewhat disagree. Other electric cars, like Nissan Leaf, have been around for a while. Supercharger network is surely an advantage, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for majority of people who charge the car in their garage and drive 30 miles a day.
It would be for me. Without the network, your EV car is useless for long range. How many people would buy a gas car if they couldn't drive it beyond 200 miles?

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm

squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:56 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am
I was interested in discussions of the car, but once again a Tesla thread will become an ad hominem attack on its CEO and shorts “talking their book.” Unfollowing.
I was enjoying the good discussion too, but then quickly fell to crap.
Maybe it’s safe to come back without the thread getting hijacked by shorts. I’m interested because:
If Y is a suitable replacement for my X, which was always a bit too large for my needs. I want AWD, long range, loaded car, but Performance is not a must-have. I’ve had enough Insane acceleration in my X.
My wife, after agreeing to a hybrid Porsche Cayenne, decided that the slow charging, sucky range, on the hybrid weren’t worth it. I wish she didn’t opt for a Cayenne Turbo instead, but maybe she will eventually swap for a Y AWD Performance in a couple of years. If Porsche ever gets its act together and sells a true EV crossover, we will probably both be buyers.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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matjen
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:17 pm

squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:56 pm

I was enjoying the good discussion too, but then quickly fell to crap.
I don't know what "good" discussion you are talking about. There was no detail whatsover about the actual car so I did a bit of digging and could not find much more in the real world. I don't count Tesla PR renders.

So first, here is Fred Lambert's take at Electrek. A noted fanboy and his take is similar to mine it seems. https://electrek.co/2019/03/15/tesla-model-y-cash-grab/

The shocking thing is that you have a car that is just a lifted Model 3 (I have no problem with that and it makes sense financially but they certainly could have made it more distinct but alas no money for that) but the few differences were purposely hidden at the launch. I mean how insane is that? The whole purpose of the Model Y is the hatch and the rear seats size, ingress, and egress. Yet Tesla hides it. What is one to conclude?
When it comes to the actual Model Y launch, the only thing I was disappointed about is that Tesla didn’t show the hatch opening.

I think the Model Y’s hatch is the vehicle’s most important feature compared to Model 3 and yet, they decide not to show it?

Same goes with the third-row backseat, which was folded down during the test rides.


But now let’s talk about this weird pre-ordering process that replaces Tesla’s usual reservation process.

After Tesla made several puzzling moves lately, like significantly cutting employee compensation and virtually offering short-term discounts on vehicles and features, we have been suspecting that Tesla is under a significant cash crunch this quarter.

I think this might be further evidence of that.
Here is a video taken by one of the attendees. You can watch the whole thing to get a "flavor" of what these things are like (Fyre Festival anyone?) but if you start at 5 minutes you see how small the rear seat is for 3 smaller guys and the Tesla rep literally says it is a lifted Model 3. Moreover they all comment on how tiny the back is around 6:15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL06MxVDH4M

Bottom line: this was a an amazingly rushed fake "reveal" that didn't reveal any of the real differences between a Model 3 and Model Y.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

FoolStreet
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Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:34 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm
squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:56 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am
I was interested in discussions of the car, but once again a Tesla thread will become an ad hominem attack on its CEO and shorts “talking their book.” Unfollowing.
I was enjoying the good discussion too, but then quickly fell to crap.
Maybe it’s safe to come back without the thread getting hijacked by shorts. I’m interested because:
If Y is a suitable replacement for my X, which was always a bit too large for my needs. I want AWD, long range, loaded car, but Performance is not a must-have. I’ve had enough Insane acceleration in my X.
My wife, after agreeing to a hybrid Porsche Cayenne, decided that the slow charging, sucky range, on the hybrid weren’t worth it. I wish she didn’t opt for a Cayenne Turbo instead, but maybe she will eventually swap for a Y AWD Performance in a couple of years. If Porsche ever gets its act together and sells a true EV crossover, we will probably both be buyers.
I’d love your opinion on the x v y. We kind of need a new car now. I put down a deposit on the y (haven’t told the missus :-o ), but really can’t imagine waiting another year. The current price delta between the x and y is about 30k. Hard to justify since we are really not in the kiddie bus phase. As you know, the x lineup is trimmed and there is no short or mid range any longer.

I would consider stretching for the x if (assuming jobs are stable etc), they upgraded the chemistry in the 1865s to really bump up the range. But even if they dropped range to make it comparably affordable, it wouldn’t be the road trip car.

We may end up with a 2yr lease on a 2019 rav4 Hybrid. We’ll see.

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