How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Hi
Does anyone know where to get this info, for 2018?
VG posted a link to a PDF (on its website, under the Advice and Retirement / Taxes menu) showing the % of various bond funds’ income that was derived from US Govt obligations, but it was dated for Y2015. Prime MM (VMMXX) was on this list, with about 20% of its income in US Govt obligations back in Y2015. However, I can’t find a more recent version. I also don’t see where this info would be reported on a 1099-DIV.
Appreciate the help!
S
Does anyone know where to get this info, for 2018?
VG posted a link to a PDF (on its website, under the Advice and Retirement / Taxes menu) showing the % of various bond funds’ income that was derived from US Govt obligations, but it was dated for Y2015. Prime MM (VMMXX) was on this list, with about 20% of its income in US Govt obligations back in Y2015. However, I can’t find a more recent version. I also don’t see where this info would be reported on a 1099-DIV.
Appreciate the help!
S
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
The information for 2017 is available at https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/USGO_022018.pdf.
The information for 2018 is not yet available, but I have found the that prior year values are generally close enough for estimation purposes.
The information for 2018 is not yet available, but I have found the that prior year values are generally close enough for estimation purposes.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
I thought it was VMFXX that was more tax efficient
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
It is but that does not mean there is no federal obligations in Prime.
Btw, as a NJ resident I know to read the footnotes, neither fund is eligible for NJ taxpayers. One of the ways NJ has probably the most onerous tax laws in the USA by not extending tax deductions routinely available elsewhere.
Make sure you understand your state tax laws before assuming you can take the 20% deduction for prime. Many will not allow it if less than 50% which disallows the deduction for Prime.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
This info will not appear on the 1099-DIV for the simple reason that the IRS only permits specified information to be listed on the 1099-DIV and the percentage of income from US Govt obligations is not one of those pieces of information. Therefore, you will have to get and use the listing Vanguard will issue for the 2018 tax year about this. As other posters have mentioned, whether you can deduct this percentage for the VG Prime MM depends on your state's tax laws.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
If any of our members in NC happen to know if the deduction is allowable under state law , please chime in. We only recently moved some funds into VMMXX so this will be the first year it will be relevant to our tax situation.
(A cursory reading on the NC DOR site regarding income from U.S. gov't obligations did not seem to preclude its deduction from taxable income.)
(A cursory reading on the NC DOR site regarding income from U.S. gov't obligations did not seem to preclude its deduction from taxable income.)
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
A related question is: how do you get this deduction on your state tax return?
For example is this something TurboTax brings up in the questionnaire mode, or do you have to know what form to put in the information?
For example is this something TurboTax brings up in the questionnaire mode, or do you have to know what form to put in the information?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Specifically stated here: https://www.ncdor.gov/interest-income-us-obligationsBlues wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:50 am If any of our members in NC happen to know if the deduction is allowable under state law , please chime in. We only recently moved some funds into VMMXX so this will be the first year it will be relevant to our tax situation.
(A cursory reading on the NC DOR site regarding income from U.S. gov't obligations did not seem to preclude its deduction from taxable income.)
A taxpayer may take a deduction on the North Carolina income tax return for interest received from direct obligations of the United States to the extent this interest has already been included in federal taxable income or adjusted gross income, as appropriate. The State does not tax this income; therefore, this deduction will reduce North Carolina taxable income.
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
When you enter interest, you get a screen that allows you to specify the amount of interest that is from US obligations. You have to do the math (total interest x US percentage), and then type it in.GrowthSeeker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:59 am A related question is: how do you get this deduction on your state tax return?
For example is this something TurboTax brings up in the questionnaire mode, or do you have to know what form to put in the information?
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Thanks!RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:00 amWhen you enter interest, you get a screen that allows you to specify the amount of interest that is from US obligations. You have to do the math (total interest x US percentage), and then type it in.GrowthSeeker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:59 am A related question is: how do you get this deduction on your state tax return?
For example is this something TurboTax brings up in the questionnaire mode, or do you have to know what form to put in the information?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Yes, that's the section I reviewed earlier. Just felt it prudent to ensure that my interpretation was in line with the state's.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:59 amSpecifically stated here: https://www.ncdor.gov/interest-income-us-obligationsBlues wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:50 am If any of our members in NC happen to know if the deduction is allowable under state law , please chime in. We only recently moved some funds into VMMXX so this will be the first year it will be relevant to our tax situation.
(A cursory reading on the NC DOR site regarding income from U.S. gov't obligations did not seem to preclude its deduction from taxable income.)
A taxpayer may take a deduction on the North Carolina income tax return for interest received from direct obligations of the United States to the extent this interest has already been included in federal taxable income or adjusted gross income, as appropriate. The State does not tax this income; therefore, this deduction will reduce North Carolina taxable income.
Thanks for taking a moment to confirm my reading of the regs.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Depending on your federal tax bracket, you might want to look at the Vanguard Treasury Money Market Fund (VUSXX). It’s 100% state tax free. $50k minimum initial investment.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
I've done a comparison in the recent past and the difference, (after anticipated state tax), is essentially a wash. Makes tying up $50K unnecessary.
I agree that it is worthwhile making that determination for one's own bracket and circumstances.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Right. I would also add the $50k is an initial minimum; $1 will keep the fund active afterwards. It is also a lower risk fund than Prime MM as it’s 100% US Gov obligation.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Why is neither fund eligible in New Jersey? GIT-5 on page 3 (emphasis mine)retiringwhen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:09 amIt is but that does not mean there is no federal obligations in Prime.
Btw, as a NJ resident I know to read the footnotes, neither fund is eligible for NJ taxpayers. One of the ways NJ has probably the most onerous tax laws in the USA by not extending tax deductions routinely available elsewhere.
Make sure you understand your state tax laws before assuming you can take the 20% deduction for prime. Many will not allow it if less than 50% which disallows the deduction for Prime.
Aren't VMMXX and VMFXX mutual funds? Vanguard does provide information regarding interest attributable to federal obligations.Mutual Funds
The distributions received by shareholders of regulated investment companies, commonly referred to as “mutual funds,” are subject to New Jersey Income Tax as distributions constituting dividends and/or capital gains, unless the fund is a “qualified investment fund” for New Jersey purposes (see Qualified Investment Funds), or the distributions are attributable to interest earned on federal obligations. (Interest on federal obligations is excludable whether or not such obligations are held by a “qualified investment fund.”) Taxable distributions should be included on Line 16 and/or Line 2, Schedule B, Form NJ-1040 or Lines 16 and/or 18, Column A, Form NJ‑1040NR. The tax-exempt portion of any distribution is reported on Line 15b, Form NJ‑1040. The nonresident return does not have a line for reporting the tax-exempt portion.
Or am I reading this wrong?
Last edited by nolesrule on Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
This is actually something I have been wanting to verify for a while. Has anyone allowed the VUSXX balance to stay below the $50k minimum for long periods of time without any warnings from Vanguard? Has anyone had any official confirmation from Vanguard that this acceptable?
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
I couldn't remember if that was the case. I've seen similar with other VG funds in the past but I've never been in the situation.Right. I would also add the $50k is an initial minimum; $1 will keep the fund active afterwards. It is also a lower risk fund than Prime MM as it’s 100% US Gov obligation.
Not too worried about VMMXX stability. I can only remember the one time when it broke or came close to breaking the dollar standard.
Might be worth transferring over to the Treasury MM fund at some point based upon being able to leave a minimal balance if ever necessary.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
I don't think you are reading it wrong. I have every intention of reporting the percentage of income from US obligations in my Federal Money Market as exempt on my NJ return per my interperation of NJ-GIT5-Exempt Obligations (https://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxati ... e/git5.pdf) . I do understand it does not meet the requirements for a New Jersey “qualified investment fund” which is minimum 80% federal obligations. But per the GIT-5 you can report the percentage that is US obligations as exempt.nolesrule wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:01 amWhy is neither fund eligible in New Jersey? GIT-5 on page 3 (emphasis mine)retiringwhen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:09 amIt is but that does not mean there is no federal obligations in Prime.
Btw, as a NJ resident I know to read the footnotes, neither fund is eligible for NJ taxpayers. One of the ways NJ has probably the most onerous tax laws in the USA by not extending tax deductions routinely available elsewhere.
Make sure you understand your state tax laws before assuming you can take the 20% deduction for prime. Many will not allow it if less than 50% which disallows the deduction for Prime.
Aren't VMMXX and VMFXX mutual funds? Vanguard does provide information regarding interest attributable to federal obligations.Mutual Funds
The distributions received by shareholders of regulated investment companies, commonly referred to as “mutual funds,” are subject to New Jersey Income Tax as distributions constituting dividends and/or capital gains, unless the fund is a “qualified investment fund” for New Jersey purposes (see Qualified Investment Funds), or the distributions are attributable to interest earned on federal obligations. (Interest on federal obligations is excludable whether or not such obligations are held by a “qualified investment fund.”) Taxable distributions should be included on Line 16 and/or Line 2, Schedule B, Form NJ-1040 or Lines 16 and/or 18, Column A, Form NJ‑1040NR. The tax-exempt portion of any distribution is reported on Line 15b, Form NJ‑1040. The nonresident return does not have a line for reporting the tax-exempt portion.
Or am I reading this wrong?
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
California, Connecticut, New York require 50% or more of a fund to be federal gov obligations to be state tax exempt, New Jersey requires 80% or more. VMFXX is 69% gov obligations, VUSXX is 100%, but in the past I've deducted the portion of the fund that was exempt.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
You need to read the link I provided above for NJ. NJ requires 80% or more to be a qualified investment fund. However it also states interest on federal obligation part of funds is excludable whether or not such obligations are held by a qualified investment fund.arf30 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:47 am California, Connecticut, New York require 50% or more of a fund to be federal gov obligations to be state tax exempt, New Jersey requires 80% or more. VMFXX is 69% gov obligations, VUSXX is 100%, but in the past I've deducted the portion of the fund that was exempt.
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Folks, this discussion is very interesting, I had an understanding (that appears to be incorrect based upon the GIT-5 reference) that it was all or nothing regarding exclusion and the Qualified Investment Fund designation. I am going to take the percentage allowed for VMFXX this year (And Prime too!) I probably have left a few dollars every year on that since I didn't realize it was possible to take less than 100%.mpnret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:01 pmYou need to read the link I provided above for NJ. NJ requires 80% or more to be a qualified investment fund. However it also states interest on federal obligation part of funds is excludable whether or not such obligations are held by a qualified investment fund.arf30 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:47 am California, Connecticut, New York require 50% or more of a fund to be federal gov obligations to be state tax exempt, New Jersey requires 80% or more. VMFXX is 69% gov obligations, VUSXX is 100%, but in the past I've deducted the portion of the fund that was exempt.
In the past, I had most if not all of my cash in VNJXX but moved to VUSXX and VMMX after the NJ fund was much less attractive for folks in the 22-24% Federal.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
It appears the New Jersey mutual fund language is based on this NJ Tax Court decision:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case ... s_sdt=4,31
I don't know the proper way to cite these things, but the last section states the following:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/3124
This is a NJ Tax Court case, so doesn't apply to other states that have set percentage requirements to be exempt.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case ... s_sdt=4,31
I don't know the proper way to cite these things, but the last section states the following:
Here is a link to 31 U.S.C.A. § 3124X. Holding
For the reasons set out above, it is held that the plain language of 31 U.S.C.A. § 3124 requires that distributions paid by mutual funds be immune from taxation by New Jersey to the extent the distributions are attributable to interest earned on Federal Obligations. The tax imposed under N.J.S.A. 54A:6-14.1, in concert with N.J.S.A. 54A:5-1e or f upon Shareholders of "non-qualified" investment funds is barred by the Federal statute because it sets out conditions for immunity which are inconsistent with the Supremacy Clause.
This holding does not apply to any entity other than a mutual fund which, like the Fund, is designed to function as an investment conduit under I.R.C. §§ 851-855. This holding has no effect on the taxation of dividends paid by traditional C corporations, as the Director feared. Those entities, having the power to accumulate or pay out their earnings, have E & P which may be viewed, under Director's theory, as fungible.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/3124
This is a NJ Tax Court case, so doesn't apply to other states that have set percentage requirements to be exempt.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
For those who are adept at finding out tax specifics in various states, can anyone tell me whether Oregon allows for the US Govt portion of VMMXX income to be deducted for the purpose of calculating state income tax? Thanks
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Looks like you're good to go:
Source: https://www.oregon.gov/DOR/forms/FormsP ... df#page=59Interest and dividends
on U.S. bonds and notes
[ORS 316.680(1)(a)]
[Subtraction code 315]
Did you include any interest or dividends from U.S.
bonds and notes in your federal income? If so, you
may subtract this income on your Oregon return.
Common examples of U.S. government interest
include savings bond and Treasury bill interest.
You may also subtract U.S. government interest
(called state exempt-interest dividends) from regulated investment companies and pools of assets managed by a fiduciary. These include, but aren’t limited
to, banks, savings associations, or credit unions. To
qualify, the regulated investment company or pool
of assets must invest in U.S. government securities.
These securities must be tax-exempt for Oregon.
The subtraction is limited to your share of the amount
of interest actually earned from qualifying U.S. government securities.
You can’t subtract amounts when the U.S. government only guarantees the security. If you receive distributions from a retirement plan, you may not subtract pension income received from funds invested in
U.S. government securities.
From TaxSlayer:
Category: Oregon
What Are Oregon's Subtractions from Income?
Here is a list of Oregon's subtractions from income
* Oregon State Tax Refund
* Dividends From the U.S. Government
* Tribal Exempt Income Subtraction
* Special Oregon Medical Subtraction
* Federal Pension Income Subtraction
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
The special rule for qualified investment funds is that a prorated share of capital gains in such a fund are also exempt from NJ tax. In a money-market fund, that is not relevant, because you won't have any capital gains (nor losses unless the fund breaks the buck).mpnret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:01 pmYou need to read the link I provided above for NJ. NJ requires 80% or more to be a qualified investment fund. However it also states interest on federal obligation part of funds is excludable whether or not such obligations are held by a qualified investment fund.arf30 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:47 am California, Connecticut, New York require 50% or more of a fund to be federal gov obligations to be state tax exempt, New Jersey requires 80% or more. VMFXX is 69% gov obligations, VUSXX is 100%, but in the past I've deducted the portion of the fund that was exempt.
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
As in previous years, that U.S. Government Obligations Information document from Vanguard continues to indicate whether a fund meets the requirements for a New Jersey “qualified investment fund.”rkhusky wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:34 pm The 2018 numbers are here: https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/USGO_012019.pdf
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
I have just (almost) completed going through TurboTax for the first time for Federal and State (my state is Ohio). I say "almost" because I can't see anywhere in TurboTax to enter the US Government Obligations part of the dividends paid by several Vanguard Funds (VMMXX Prime MM, VMFXX Federal MM, VHCOX Capital Opportunity, and VPMCX Primecap Fund are the ones I have).RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:00 amWhen you enter interest, you get a screen that allows you to specify the amount of interest that is from US obligations. You have to do the math (total interest x US percentage), and then type it in.GrowthSeeker wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:59 am A related question is: how do you get this deduction on your state tax return?
For example is this something TurboTax brings up in the questionnaire mode, or do you have to know what form to put in the information?
For the 1099-INT portion, if there is tax exempt interest, the questionnaire asks if "My form has info in more than just box 1 (this is uncommon)"; and you can click there. Presumably, if they put tax exempt interest it will be in box 8. I think that box is for interest exempt from Federal taxes. There is also Box 3 for "Savings bonds and treasury interest".
Fine, but this does not apply to VMMXX, because VMMXX pays dividends and dividends are on the 1099-DIV. In the DIV section of Turbotax data entry, there is Box 11 for "Exempt-interest dividends", presumably muni bonds. But there is no 1099-DIV box that I can see for dividends paid that came from Treasury interest, and nowhere in TurboTax to enter this information.
Summary: Treasury interest is only reported on 1099-INT but these funds report on 1099-DIV where there is no reporting of Treasury related dividends.
It looks to me like this needs to go on Schedule A of the State return (in the case of Ohio, this looks like line 20 of Sch A for 2018; on my 2017 OH state return it was line 18 of Sch A).
Maybe this has to be input manually as an "override". I may have to call TT support.
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
After putting in dividends, TT presents a screen with a list of boxes, one of which says something to the effect that there are US obligations included. Next screen asks you to input those.
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
I see exactly how to do it under Interest but not under Dividends. The boxes I see are analogous to the boxes on either a 1099-INT or a 1099-DIV (and the 1099-DIV has no entry for US Treasury or US government, only the 1099-INT has that).RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:58 pm After putting in dividends, TT presents a screen with a list of boxes, one of which says something to the effect that there are US obligations included. Next screen asks you to input those.
Besides, even if I enter a number in a 1099 box which is different than the 1099 that Vanguard sent me, isn't that a problem?
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
You don't enter any other boxes. Fill it out exactly as it exists, THEN GO TO THE NEXT SCREEN, check the proper box, then go to the next screen.GrowthSeeker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:45 pmI see exactly how to do it under Interest but not under Dividends. The boxes I see are analogous to the boxes on either a 1099-INT or a 1099-DIV (and the 1099-DIV has no entry for US Treasury or US government, only the 1099-INT has that).RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:58 pm After putting in dividends, TT presents a screen with a list of boxes, one of which says something to the effect that there are US obligations included. Next screen asks you to input those.
Besides, even if I enter a number in a 1099 box which is different than the 1099 that Vanguard sent me, isn't that a problem?
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Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
Ah! Found it. Thanks. It was actually two screens later. The next screen was the one asking about the brokerage's Tax ID number; then the one after that had half a dozen "uncommon" situations with checkboxes. That's where it was.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:48 pmYou don't enter any other boxes. Fill it out exactly as it exists, THEN GO TO THE NEXT SCREEN, check the proper box, then go to the next screen.GrowthSeeker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:45 pmI see exactly how to do it under Interest but not under Dividends. The boxes I see are analogous to the boxes on either a 1099-INT or a 1099-DIV (and the 1099-DIV has no entry for US Treasury or US government, only the 1099-INT has that).RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:58 pm After putting in dividends, TT presents a screen with a list of boxes, one of which says something to the effect that there are US obligations included. Next screen asks you to input those.
Besides, even if I enter a number in a 1099 box which is different than the 1099 that Vanguard sent me, isn't that a problem?
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.
Re: How much of VG Prime MM (VMMXX) Dividend is exempt from state tax?
I'm having exactly the same problem with HR-BLOCK software that Growthseeker had with Turbotax, until he found the right place to input the data).......but my problem is: there really IS NO PLACE to adjust the dividend numbers I'm using HR-BLOCK (PREMIUM, online, via "united way", which supposedly is full-featured even though free if below a certain income limit).
I've always used Turbotax, and never had any problem inputting the adjustments for "gov't. obligations"
for each item on my 1099-DIV.
But now I'm trying HR-BLOCK for the first time, and after searching for hours, I find nothing
For each of my separate income sources on each 1099-DIV screen, there are roughly 15 boxes to fill in, beginning
with "Payers Name", followed by the standard "1a Total ordinary dividends " and ending with
" box 12 Specified private activity bond interest dividends".
And none of the above boxes are relevant to this problem.
Below all of those boxes, there is NO BOX to check like Turbotax has ("I need to adjust.....").
The only boxes to check are the following four:
>>State tax was withheld in Box 15
>>I’m holding this account as a nominee — all or part of this income belongs to someone else.
>>All or part of the dividends were paid on restricted stock received from an employer.
>>The FATCA filing requirement box is checked on this 1099-DIV.
So does anyone know what is going on???? This is frustrating....
I've always used Turbotax, and never had any problem inputting the adjustments for "gov't. obligations"
for each item on my 1099-DIV.
But now I'm trying HR-BLOCK for the first time, and after searching for hours, I find nothing
For each of my separate income sources on each 1099-DIV screen, there are roughly 15 boxes to fill in, beginning
with "Payers Name", followed by the standard "1a Total ordinary dividends " and ending with
" box 12 Specified private activity bond interest dividends".
And none of the above boxes are relevant to this problem.
Below all of those boxes, there is NO BOX to check like Turbotax has ("I need to adjust.....").
The only boxes to check are the following four:
>>State tax was withheld in Box 15
>>I’m holding this account as a nominee — all or part of this income belongs to someone else.
>>All or part of the dividends were paid on restricted stock received from an employer.
>>The FATCA filing requirement box is checked on this 1099-DIV.
So does anyone know what is going on???? This is frustrating....