Switch from average day care to fancy one?

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knightrider
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Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by knightrider » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:05 pm

Our 2.8 year old kid will soon be transitioning to the next class at 3. He is currently in an "average" day care that is right next to our house. Nothing spectacular, nothing bad.. Lot of younger teachers and diversity. He is happy there and always seems glad to be there..

There is a fancier daycare around 15 minutes from our house. Same price, but teachers all have advanced degrees and have been there for a long time.. It is very structured and organized. One concern I have is that is part of a religious center.. Although they say religion is hardly brought into the classroom.. 50% of the kids are from this religion. I am concerned our kid might be seen as a "second-class" citizen...

alfaspider
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by alfaspider » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:08 pm

knightrider wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:05 pm
Our 2.8 year old kid will soon be transitioning to the next class at 3. He is currently in an "average" day care that is right next to our house. Nothing spectacular, nothing bad.. Lot of younger teachers and diversity. He is happy there and always seems glad to be there..

There is a fancier daycare around 15 minutes from our house. Same price, but teachers all have advanced degrees and have been there for a long time.. It is very structured and organized. One concern I have is that is part of a religious center.. Although they say religion is hardly brought into the classroom.. 50% of the kids are from this religion. I am concerned our kid might be seen as a "second-class" citizen...
I don't see why you'd move a kid from a place he is happy. He will get plenty of structure when he starts elementary school.

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cheese_breath
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by cheese_breath » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:16 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:08 pm
I don't see why you'd move a kid from a place he is happy. He will get plenty of structure when he starts elementary school.
+1 My gosh, he's not even three. Let him have a little fun before he has to deal with the real world. Is the other one more prestigious? He doesn't care, so who would you be doing this for?
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Artful Dodger
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by Artful Dodger » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:24 pm

knightrider wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:05 pm
Our 2.8 year old kid will soon be transitioning to the next class at 3. He is currently in an "average" day care that is right next to our house. Nothing spectacular, nothing bad.. Lot of younger teachers and diversity. He is happy there and always seems glad to be there..

There is a fancier daycare around 15 minutes from our house. Same price, but teachers all have advanced degrees and have been there for a long time.. It is very structured and organized. One concern I have is that is part of a religious center.. Although they say religion is hardly brought into the classroom.. 50% of the kids are from this religion. I am concerned our kid might be seen as a "second-class" citizen...
When our kids were little, and my wife still worked, our local school system did not have a full day kindergarten. The local Baptist church offered a full day kindergarten and had a good reputation. We were religiously unaffiliated at the time, and never felt any stigma. Our kids did participate in the Christmas holiday show.

lightheir
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by lightheir » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 pm

Happy and next to house >>> fancy schmanzy degree day care with a 30in round trip time

GT99
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by GT99 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:40 pm

We moved last year, and we had to move our then 4 year old from a top of the line Montessori school where she was very happy to a more standard, but still highly rated daycare. She's completely happy in the new school as well, but the difference is stark. Her new school is 25% cheaper, and is generally a lot more flexible, but if both schools were side by side and everything else were the same, we'd choose the old school, and it's not close. The new school does have some structure and she is learning stuff, but the old school she was learning so much that it was crazy AND enjoying doing so. I think people are interpreting structure the wrong way here. A well structured daycare has a clear plan for learning, but that doesn't mean it's not fun for the kids. It's activity based. They are just very intentional with the fun the kids have.

I'm not saying you should move your kid. But most kids are going to happy in most daycares that are average or better (my daughter has pretty bad social anxiety, but she's been completely happy in both), so while your kid's happiness is obviously a priority, the risk of them not being happy in the new place is low. But I would be very sure the new school really will be the upgrade you seem to think it is. I certainly didn't know our change would be a downgrade until well after the move. One thing I'd do is see if you can get copies of daily/weekly plans and compare them.
And really consider the impact of the distance. Is it convenient for commutes? Is traffic a factor? We theoretically could go back to our old daycare, but it's best case about 25 minutes in the opposite direction of my commute (vs 7 or 8 min for the new one), in a high traffic area. The stress is not worth it.

123
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by 123 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:43 pm

Sounds like a great situation for your child as well as you right now. It would be pointless and a waste of effort to change anything. Why fix what isn't broken? Perhaps the fancy day care is more prestigious but your kid doesn't care, you could learn a lot from him/her.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

smitcat
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by smitcat » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:44 pm

knightrider wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:05 pm
Our 2.8 year old kid will soon be transitioning to the next class at 3. He is currently in an "average" day care that is right next to our house. Nothing spectacular, nothing bad.. Lot of younger teachers and diversity. He is happy there and always seems glad to be there..

There is a fancier daycare around 15 minutes from our house. Same price, but teachers all have advanced degrees and have been there for a long time.. It is very structured and organized. One concern I have is that is part of a religious center.. Although they say religion is hardly brought into the classroom.. 50% of the kids are from this religion. I am concerned our kid might be seen as a "second-class" citizen...
Fancy is not a metric I would use to measure the value of the schools between each other. I am going to assume we are talking about childcare centers here and not just daycare. If they are both childcare centers with full curriculums that is one of the first things I would compare, there are many others such as their concepts and procedures on health related issues, food/menu and allergies, teacher ongoing training , past children services violations, how they organize classes by age and activities, security , music options, technology and smartboard usage, committed parent communications online/verbal/written, etc.

stoptothink
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by stoptothink » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:44 pm

Pulling your child out of an environment that they are comfortable and thriving in, plus adding another 30min of commuting per day? I wouldn't do it unless the "fancy" daycare was significantly cheaper, like 50% cheaper. What exactly do you think would be the benefit?

staythecourse
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by staythecourse » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:52 pm

If he is happy and the logistics work out (ease of pickup/ drop offs and limited off days) I would stick with what you got. What I have seen (a 1st grader and pk3) is that what they learn has more to do with learning from you at home. The more you talk and use different words the more then grasp speaking. Reading with them at home is where reading is reinforced. Same for math and practicing counting and concepts of addition/ subtraction.

Honestly, what I have learned from the educational system in America is not that impressive. I think the onus on teaching and reinforcing learning is more on the parents then in the past. If I didn't work AND socialization was not an issue I would just home school. As a point of reference, my 1st grader is doing division and fractions based on teaching her when she gets home and can say if we just left it up to the school she would just be doing 1-2 digit addition and subtraction.

Good luck.
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J295
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by J295 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:43 pm

Unclear to me why you think child might be considered “second class” in the other environment?

forgeblast
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by forgeblast » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:30 am

Depends....1. Does the first day care transition into more of a Kg(kindergarten) setting, if it does they will be fine. if it doesn't, then the second one will be better.

Daycare with that transition of sitting at desks, lining up, doing work, doing independent work is so helpful for KG.
A big bonus, if they can tie their own shoes. Honestly and seriously ask a KG teacher how many times a day they tie shoes. An easy way to practice is take a plastic grocery bag that has handles. These are the "Loops", and have them practice going over and under. It worked great with my little one.

SimonJester
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by SimonJester » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:59 am

Having a stable caring environment is way more important. My mother taught child care for 30+ years both owing her own business and working in centers. The individual taking care of your child day in and day out is the most important factor.

I see no reason to change to the other center if the current one is a safe and stable situation.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Jags4186
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am

Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D

smitcat
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by smitcat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am
Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D
"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.

veindoc
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by veindoc » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:16 am

I don’t think the religion will be an issue for your kids at that age. My non Jewish children participated in a Jewish day camp as well as activities in the Jewish community center. They were happy there and there were no indication that they were mistreated. To be quite honest I think the other kids just assumed they were Jewish. And in fact my oldest was shocked to learn that we were not Jewish. And greater than 50% of the kids in those programs were Jewish.

If there is a religious affiliation it will be infused in the curriculum, no doubt. Another one of my kids missed the age cutoff to go to kindergarten. I didn’t want to put him in pre-K again so I found a program that was geared towards those five year olds not yet in kindergarten but more advanced than pre-K. The school was in a Protestant church that was five minutes away from my house. My son came home talking about God in a few occasions and his graduation gift was an illustrated children’s bible from his teacher. The school was great and since we are a-religious we were not offended.

Bottom line, religion will get infused somewhere in the curriculum no doubt, but your kid will likely be treated well and accepted. If you like the school and you will not be offended if your kid gains familiarity with a religion not your own, then I would not hesitate. (If I thought it was the best school for my kid)

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leeks
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by leeks » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:21 am

"right next to our house"
Keep your routines simple, I would not give this up.
Can you imagine having to pass by the old one every day with your child possibly crying to go back there and explaining why instead he has to do a longer commute to a strange place?

Jags4186
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:24 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am
Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D
"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.
No I’m not.

My sister and I could read when we got to kindergarten. My parents taught us how to read. Everyone else was still learning ABCs. Many of my classmates attended the same daycare we went to.

But to be fair, I didn’t know how to count to 10 in French or say hello and goodbye in German.

Daycare is of course important for the socialization aspect but I don’t believe you need ultra expensive daycare to get that.

smitcat
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by smitcat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:45 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:24 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am
Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D
"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.
No I’m not.

My sister and I could read when we got to kindergarten. My parents taught us how to read. Everyone else was still learning ABCs. Many of my classmates attended the same daycare we went to.

But to be fair, I didn’t know how to count to 10 in French or say hello and goodbye in German.

Daycare is of course important for the socialization aspect but I don’t believe you need ultra expensive daycare to get that.

Once again , what are comparing?
- daycare = leave a child in a room with a TV movie on.
- childcare center = as I described above with a full curriculum, trained teachers, educational tools, toys and skills, ect
Although you use the term daycare I am specifically speaking about childcare centers.

Perhaps do some reading on the subject rather than utilizing a very small data set to make assumptions:
- It is very important to read to your kids but not many actually know how to do that or take the time.
- many child care centers curriculums can be exceedingly valuable , seek one out and see how detailed and effective they can be
- good teachers are required to maintain constant learning and keep up with the newer techniques and curriculum.
- children at any age learn a bunch from their peers as well as greatly enhances the ability to interact and excel in life
- a good childcare center can identify issues with very young children that would typically go unnoticed, most all of these learning, motive, behavior, or speech issues can be completely of mostly remediated if caught early on. Not gonna happen at home.

I could add many more significant bullet points on the value of childcare and how it works. If you choose to continue to think that reading to your kids at night is more valuable then a good childcare that is up to you.
But .. I do want other readers to know how to ask questions of their potential childcare center(s) to realize how to compare them and how extensive the benefits can be.

Jags4186
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:19 am

Just as you have described some daycares as “sitting kids in front of TVs” I have described home learning as “reading to your kids”. Parents who take an interest in educating their young children can and will do more than a daycare can do. If you want to send your kids to the ultra expensive daycare that’s fine and if you wish to encourage others to do so based on the information you have go for it. I believe the socialisation aspects of daycare are the most important parts you can get out of it. But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe they’re teaching quantum mechanics to 3 year olds. Based what I see my nephew doing at a private daycare that costs more than my college tuition was...this is a duck, this is a lion, this is a red square, this is a blue circle, this is the alphabet, this is how you say goodbye in Spanish, this is how you read a clock...nothing that can’t be taught at home by motivated parents.

Now I only have my personal anecdotal evidence. Both my sister and I attended day care, had a sitter, and receive copious amounts of attention from our parents. We both were ahead of our grades in kindergarten and both were given the opportunity to skip to 1st grade, which thankfully my parents chose to not do. We both did well in school but overtime things evened out with everyone else. We weren’t a grade ahead in 2nd or 3rd grade.

chevca
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by chevca » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:23 am

cheese_breath wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:16 pm
Is the other one more prestigious? He doesn't care, so who would you be doing this for?
Exactly my questions as well.

MI_bogle
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by MI_bogle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:28 am

knightrider wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:05 pm
Our 2.8 year old kid will soon be transitioning to the next class at 3. He is currently in an "average" day care that is right next to our house. Nothing spectacular, nothing bad.. Lot of younger teachers and diversity. He is happy there and always seems glad to be there..

There is a fancier daycare around 15 minutes from our house. Same price, but teachers all have advanced degrees and have been there for a long time.. It is very structured and organized. One concern I have is that is part of a religious center.. Although they say religion is hardly brought into the classroom.. 50% of the kids are from this religion. I am concerned our kid might be seen as a "second-class" citizen...
The kid is happy at current daycare

The current daycare is close to the house

The current daycare has zero concerns that you mention

The other daycare is farther from the house and you have a concern about him fitting in/religion

No brainer - keep in current daycare. Don't overthink it!

stoptothink
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by stoptothink » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am
Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D
"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.
It really depends. Before getting into private industry I was the health director overseeing the health component of all the licensed daycare centers in my county for 4yrs and spent another 5yrs in the same environment but a different state before that, and because of my experience I was part of the committee which developed the on-site employee daycare for my current employer; I've spent tens of thousands of hours in licensed daycare centers. In the huge majority of centers, where there is 8 children per adult (if they are following requirements, which is a major "if" when they are not being audited), most of the adults with very little actual training regarding early childhood education, there is little structured learning going on. Now we do in-home daycare 2.5 days a week (it's actually my MIL, in my home, watching my son and 2 other children), and my wife and I work from home the other 2.5 days per week, and it is night-and-day. My 3yr old is reading and doing basic math. My MIL can give them a ton of 1-on-1 attention, and when my wife and I are at home (even working) we have more interaction with our children than they would have at a normal daycare. My daughter spent 4yrs in conventional daycare, my son spent his first 2.5yrs in conventional daycare; the work of my MIL and my wife and I has resulted in dramatically more learning than daycare. Have you ever tried to "teach" 8 2-4yr olds?

Of course there are outlier facilities out there, but that's the reality. 8 kids per adult, the staff isn't well-trained (how skilled of staff are you expecting when most are making close to minimum wage?); a pair of responsible parents spending less than an hour per day interacting directly with their children is going to promote more learning.
Last edited by stoptothink on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

smitcat
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by smitcat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 am

stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am
Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D
"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.
It really depends. Before getting into private industry I was the health director overseeing the health component of all the licensed daycare centers in my county for 4yrs and spent another 5yrs in the same environment but a different state before that; I've spent tens of thousands of hours in licensed daycare centers. In the huge majority of centers, where there is 8 children per adult (if they are following requirements, which is a major "if" when they are not being audited), most of the adults with very little actual training regarding early childhood education, there is little structured learning going on. Now we do in-home daycare 2.5 days a week (it's actually my MIL, in my home, watching my son and 2 other children), and my wife and I work from home the other 2.5 days per week, and it is night-and-day. My 3yr old is reading and doing basic math. My MIL can give them a ton of 1-on-1 attention, and when my wife and I are at home (even working) we have more interaction with our children than they would have at a normal daycare. Have you ever tried to "teach" 8 2-4yr olds?
We have seen 1,000 of kids make great improvements with childcare, we have seen 100's of kids get a huge advantage with early intervention on many issues that would never happen in the home. We have seen the change that occurs and typically quickly when a child that was not at a center is introduced to all of the tools and advantages of his class and peers as part of a learning environment.
Child care centers have teachers with "actual training", childcare centers have a known and followed curriculum.

stoptothink
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by stoptothink » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 am
stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am
Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D
"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.
It really depends. Before getting into private industry I was the health director overseeing the health component of all the licensed daycare centers in my county for 4yrs and spent another 5yrs in the same environment but a different state before that; I've spent tens of thousands of hours in licensed daycare centers. In the huge majority of centers, where there is 8 children per adult (if they are following requirements, which is a major "if" when they are not being audited), most of the adults with very little actual training regarding early childhood education, there is little structured learning going on. Now we do in-home daycare 2.5 days a week (it's actually my MIL, in my home, watching my son and 2 other children), and my wife and I work from home the other 2.5 days per week, and it is night-and-day. My 3yr old is reading and doing basic math. My MIL can give them a ton of 1-on-1 attention, and when my wife and I are at home (even working) we have more interaction with our children than they would have at a normal daycare. Have you ever tried to "teach" 8 2-4yr olds?
We have seen 1,000 of kids make great improvements with childcare, we have seen 100's of kids get a huge advantage with early intervention on many issues that would never happen in the home. We have seen the change that occurs and typically quickly when a child that was not at a center is introduced to all of the tools and advantages of his class and peers as part of a learning environment.
Child care centers have teachers with "actual training", childcare centers have a known and followed curriculum.
You are playing with semantics. I was in the industry and used the terms interchangeably. Do you know the requirements for teachers and aids in a Head Start center or their curriculum? I do, intimately, because I have overseen 100+ of them and successfully gotten them through their federal audits (I directed health component). How much time have you spent actually seeing what goes on in such a facility? My own children's experience with "conventional daycare" is in early Head Start and Head Start centers.

I'm not down-playing the the service they provide, it's just the reality. The effect is even more dramatic than it is once children get into public school; you want thriving children, daycare/childcare/school is great, but what you do at home can have the greatest impact.
Last edited by stoptothink on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

smitcat
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by smitcat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:26 am

stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 am
stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 am
Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare.

My nephew attends a very fancy Montessori school in Manhattan with eye popping tuition.

Seems as smart/dumb as any other 2/3 year old and still craps his pants. :D
"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.
It really depends. Before getting into private industry I was the health director overseeing the health component of all the licensed daycare centers in my county for 4yrs and spent another 5yrs in the same environment but a different state before that; I've spent tens of thousands of hours in licensed daycare centers. In the huge majority of centers, where there is 8 children per adult (if they are following requirements, which is a major "if" when they are not being audited), most of the adults with very little actual training regarding early childhood education, there is little structured learning going on. Now we do in-home daycare 2.5 days a week (it's actually my MIL, in my home, watching my son and 2 other children), and my wife and I work from home the other 2.5 days per week, and it is night-and-day. My 3yr old is reading and doing basic math. My MIL can give them a ton of 1-on-1 attention, and when my wife and I are at home (even working) we have more interaction with our children than they would have at a normal daycare. Have you ever tried to "teach" 8 2-4yr olds?
We have seen 1,000 of kids make great improvements with childcare, we have seen 100's of kids get a huge advantage with early intervention on many issues that would never happen in the home. We have seen the change that occurs and typically quickly when a child that was not at a center is introduced to all of the tools and advantages of his class and peers as part of a learning environment.
Child care centers have teachers with "actual training", childcare centers have a known and followed curriculum.
You are playing with semantics. I was in the industry and used the terms interchangeably. Do you know the requirements for teachers and aids in a Head Start center or their curriculum (I do, because I have overseen 100+ Head Start centers). How much time have you spent actually seeing what goes on in such a facility? My own children's experience with "conventional daycare" is in early Head Start and Head Start centers (facilities that I oversaw).

I'm not down-playing the the service they provide, it's just the reality.
"How much time have you spent actually seeing what goes on in such a facility?"
Much more than you have.
If you were at HeadStart you know they vary by state and they generally underperform most childcare centers by a good margin.

stoptothink
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by stoptothink » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:30 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:26 am
stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 am
stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:15 am


"Your kids learn more from you reading to them at night than they will at daycare."
I am certain you know that is inaccurate.
It really depends. Before getting into private industry I was the health director overseeing the health component of all the licensed daycare centers in my county for 4yrs and spent another 5yrs in the same environment but a different state before that; I've spent tens of thousands of hours in licensed daycare centers. In the huge majority of centers, where there is 8 children per adult (if they are following requirements, which is a major "if" when they are not being audited), most of the adults with very little actual training regarding early childhood education, there is little structured learning going on. Now we do in-home daycare 2.5 days a week (it's actually my MIL, in my home, watching my son and 2 other children), and my wife and I work from home the other 2.5 days per week, and it is night-and-day. My 3yr old is reading and doing basic math. My MIL can give them a ton of 1-on-1 attention, and when my wife and I are at home (even working) we have more interaction with our children than they would have at a normal daycare. Have you ever tried to "teach" 8 2-4yr olds?
We have seen 1,000 of kids make great improvements with childcare, we have seen 100's of kids get a huge advantage with early intervention on many issues that would never happen in the home. We have seen the change that occurs and typically quickly when a child that was not at a center is introduced to all of the tools and advantages of his class and peers as part of a learning environment.
Child care centers have teachers with "actual training", childcare centers have a known and followed curriculum.
You are playing with semantics. I was in the industry and used the terms interchangeably. Do you know the requirements for teachers and aids in a Head Start center or their curriculum (I do, because I have overseen 100+ Head Start centers). How much time have you spent actually seeing what goes on in such a facility? My own children's experience with "conventional daycare" is in early Head Start and Head Start centers (facilities that I oversaw).

I'm not down-playing the the service they provide, it's just the reality.
"How much time have you spent actually seeing what goes on in such a facility?"
Much more than you have.
If you were at HeadStart you know they vary by state and they generally underperform most childcare centers by a good margin.
So you oversaw "child care" facilities for more than 9yrs as a career? If so, cool; our experiences do not match. The reality of Head Start centers "underperforming" childcare centers (in your opinion, unless you have some objective data I've never seen) is that almost all of the children come from impoverished homes. Just reality; the single most influential factor in the performance of educational facilities is the socioeconomics of the households sending children to schools.

getthatmarshmallow
Posts: 419
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:09 am

I moved my kid to the fancier daycare at age 2, which was the earliest they'd accept kids. Her previous daycare was fine. She was safe, cared for, and loved. They read to her and played with her and she was happy. The new place is the local university's lab school, which costs about the same and is NAEYC accredited, with award-winning teachers and tons of early education majors to help with individualized attention. She blossomed this year. She's now nearly three and ahead on all her milestones, and her older brother is similarly advanced having been through the same program.

Causation is hard to prove. She has well-off, educated parents whose idea of fun is science experiments and music lessons, a house full of books, and plenty of time with me during academic summers. She'd probably be just fine at the old place. Still, money well spent.

smitcat
Posts: 4286
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by smitcat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:14 am

stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:30 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:26 am
stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:14 am
stoptothink wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:06 am


It really depends. Before getting into private industry I was the health director overseeing the health component of all the licensed daycare centers in my county for 4yrs and spent another 5yrs in the same environment but a different state before that; I've spent tens of thousands of hours in licensed daycare centers. In the huge majority of centers, where there is 8 children per adult (if they are following requirements, which is a major "if" when they are not being audited), most of the adults with very little actual training regarding early childhood education, there is little structured learning going on. Now we do in-home daycare 2.5 days a week (it's actually my MIL, in my home, watching my son and 2 other children), and my wife and I work from home the other 2.5 days per week, and it is night-and-day. My 3yr old is reading and doing basic math. My MIL can give them a ton of 1-on-1 attention, and when my wife and I are at home (even working) we have more interaction with our children than they would have at a normal daycare. Have you ever tried to "teach" 8 2-4yr olds?
We have seen 1,000 of kids make great improvements with childcare, we have seen 100's of kids get a huge advantage with early intervention on many issues that would never happen in the home. We have seen the change that occurs and typically quickly when a child that was not at a center is introduced to all of the tools and advantages of his class and peers as part of a learning environment.
Child care centers have teachers with "actual training", childcare centers have a known and followed curriculum.
You are playing with semantics. I was in the industry and used the terms interchangeably. Do you know the requirements for teachers and aids in a Head Start center or their curriculum (I do, because I have overseen 100+ Head Start centers). How much time have you spent actually seeing what goes on in such a facility? My own children's experience with "conventional daycare" is in early Head Start and Head Start centers (facilities that I oversaw).

I'm not down-playing the the service they provide, it's just the reality.
"How much time have you spent actually seeing what goes on in such a facility?"
Much more than you have.
If you were at HeadStart you know they vary by state and they generally underperform most childcare centers by a good margin.
So you oversaw "child care" facilities for more than 9yrs as a career? If so, cool; our experiences do not match.
"So you oversaw "child care" facilities for more than 9yrs as a career? If so, cool; our experiences do not match."
No - we oversaw more than one center for more that 15 years.
we engage a healthcare nurse dietitian, SLP , OT etc when needed or when appropriate.

Headstart is the pits here where we are, their standards are very low and the operation is not competitive.
It is run like a typical state program with little expectation and no one is fully accountable.
I am NOT saying that Headstart is that way in every location as I have no knowledge outside this area.

forgeblast
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by forgeblast » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:22 am

Head Start is a Federal program that promotes the school readiness of children from birth to age five from low-income families by enhancing their cognitive, social, and emotional development.

We have a head start program in our school. Licensed early education teacher, who also has to make home visits etc. We have seen a lot of progress with this children vs low income children who did not utilize the program.

tweeter
Posts: 37
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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by tweeter » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:27 am

knightrider wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:05 pm
Our 2.8 year old kid will soon be transitioning to the next class at 3. He is currently in an "average" day care that is right next to our house. Nothing spectacular, nothing bad.. Lot of younger teachers and diversity. He is happy there and always seems glad to be there..

There is a fancier daycare around 15 minutes from our house. Same price, but teachers all have advanced degrees and have been there for a long time.. It is very structured and organized. One concern I have is that is part of a religious center.. Although they say religion is hardly brought into the classroom.. 50% of the kids are from this religion. I am concerned our kid might be seen as a "second-class" citizen...
What exactly is your concern? It sounds like you and your child are happy with the current daycare. Your current daycare is "average" because it is less fancy and the teachers don't have degrees? Your child at 3 years old does not need rigid structure and supervision by teachers with advanced degrees.
Your child will be learning at this age through social interactions and play. You just need a nurturing environment for that to occur. The disruption of moving him to another supposedly "better" place may have more of a negative impact than you can measure.

Source: I have one kid in daycare and one kid in kindergarten.

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Re: Switch from average day care to fancy one?

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:45 am

Religion is a highly contentious topic, much more so than politics. I removed an off-topic post and reply criticizing the value of religious education - the discussion was getting derailed. As a reminder, see: Politics and Religion
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Please stay on-topic and state your concerns in a civil, factual manner.
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