Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

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galawdawg
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by galawdawg » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:13 am

This morning Vanguard finally sent me an email notifying me of the end of VanguardAdvantage. I suppose the overwhelming number of Flagship clients that used the service meant that it took Vanguard a full two weeks to get all of the notification emails sent out. :annoyed

Higher ER on their index funds now than Fidelity, reduced benefits and less than stellar service. While I hate to abandon the ship that Jack built after decades as a customer, I am finding myself wondering why I haven't moved everything to Fidelity already.

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Transition from Advantage Checking to Brokerage Checking

Post by Bill Bernstein » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:32 pm

One more wrinkle to figure out is the transition from Advantage checking to plain-vanilla brokerage checking. Vanguard had originally announced that setting up the latter required shutting down the former, but one doesn't need an advanced degree in banking to realize that not all checks get cashed immediately, and that doing it this way would bounce all Advantage drafts written after the new brokerage checks were issued.

When I called to ask them about this today, my rep told me rather sheepishly that he had just seen an announcement that all checks written on the old Advantage accounts would be honored, after all, after the new checks got issued.

Good to hear, but color me a tad skeptical; I'm definitely not switching until my April 15 checks for taxes are safely cashed by the appropriate authorities . . . .

Bill

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:16 pm

^^^ That's a good point - for any account.

Never close an account with outstanding transactions. In this case, outstanding checks.
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Re: Transition from Advantage Checking to Brokerage Checking

Post by Artsdoctor » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:27 pm

Bill Bernstein wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:32 pm
One more wrinkle to figure out is the transition from Advantage checking to plain-vanilla brokerage checking. Vanguard had originally announced that setting up the latter required shutting down the former, but one doesn't need an advanced degree in banking to realize that not all checks get cashed immediately, and that doing it this way would bounce all Advantage drafts written after the new brokerage checks were issued.

When I called to ask them about this today, my rep told me rather sheepishly that he had just seen an announcement that all checks written on the old Advantage accounts would be honored, after all, after the new checks got issued.

Good to hear, but color me a tad skeptical; I'm definitely not switching until my April 15 checks for taxes are safely cashed by the appropriate authorities . . . .

Bill
I don't know if this transition will go smoothly or not. It will probably go fine, but I'm winding down the Advantage account as follows:

1. I've now activating my Fidelity brokerage account for checkwriting privileges and bill pay.
2. I've set up the Fidelity brokerage account for direct deposit from the Vanguard Advantage account (and all my Vanguard accounts) so that I can push fund from Vanguard to Fidelity; I've tested this out and the funds are available at Fidelity the very next day for withdrawal.
3. I'll continue to write checks on my Advantage account until the end of March but will stop after this. I'll continue to use the bill pay feature for payments through the end of May as I gradually switch over this feature to Fidelity. I have about 100 payees and I'm sure it'll take a lot of time to populate the bill pay list at Fidelity.
4. I'll let my autopays take money out of Vanguard for one cycle going forward but immediately after it's taken, I'll reconfigure the autopay feature to include the Fidelity account instead of the Vanguard account.

It took me a couple of weeks to get things set up properly at Fidelity and to activate the direct deposit from VG Advantage to Fidelity but now that it's done, it seems to be going smoothly.

One glitch in the Fidelity brokerage account bill pay. Instead of having both names on the bill pay check (if it's a joint account), Fidelity sends a payment with the name of the person who is linked to the account by tax ID number. If it's for your spouse, you'll want to put the name in the memo field. That was not the case with Vanguard.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by brndog2 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:45 pm

dkturner wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:51 am
TheGreyingDuke wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:47 pm
If I can summarize the options most often mentioned to replace the Advantage:

1) Go to Fidelity, establish either a brokerage account or a Cash Management Account, and move some/most/all of what lives in the Advantage account to Fidelity. You get an interest rate of about 80% of the Vanguard rate and access to ATM withdrawals ( without cost for CMA and >$250k brokerage). On an average balance of $5000, it will cost you about $50 a year as compared to the soon to be former Advantage.

If I move the bulk of my 2-year fund to Fidelity I can avoid needing to closely monitor things, the money will be there. But of course, if I do that, then the cost goes up, on $200k it would cost me about $1000 a year for the convenience.

2) Keep the account at Vanguard, make use of the checks for more than $250 dollars and establish an account at a local (or otherwise) entity and make modest deposits into it to cover the monthly nut. As has been reported, with an average balance of $5000 in the local checking that will cost you about $125 a year in interest. You would also conceivably gain some other advantages depending on the local bank/credit union. These might include medallion guarantee, a vast ATM network with no cost (I am thinking the credit union network Allpoint with 55,000 locations in the US, Canada, UK, and Australia).

This option also allows for cash deposits and since I already have a small account at the local CU, it avoids adding an institution to the list.

I am leaning to option #2, do a monthly transfer of funds from Vanguard to the credit union and keep an eye on the balance. I really don't want to buy an MMF from Fidelity with an expense of over .4%,
Thanks for the great analysis of Vanguard vs. Fidelity.

We opened both Fidelity CMA and brokerage accounts this week, but have not yet funded them. We are planning on funding the CMA with a physical check, then transfer most of the funds to a MM account in the brokerage account. We’re waiting for the checking feature to kick in. We will probably start out with a few hundred $ in the CMA and a few thousand $ in the brokerage account. We would like to try out the CMA billpay feature to see how it draws from the money market fund in the brokerage account in order to keep a small minimum balance in the CMA as bills are paid.

We will probably keep the bulk of our cash reserves at Vanguard because of the higher yield on the MM funds. We can periodically transfer funds, either from our bank account or Vanguard MM fund, to Fidelity as needed.
I have FZDXX in my Fidelity CMA and that account automatically backs up low interest fidc account. I also have moved Vanguard funds into the Fidelity brokerage. Bill pay ach pull has worked seamlessly. I am VERY happy with Fidelity so far.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Taildragger » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 am

My Vanguard representative and I had a spirited debate about the demise of the Vanguard Advantage account. He asked a good question:

What happens if Fidelity decides to cancel their CMA (Cash Management Account)?

That leads to my question:

Is Fidelity making enough profit from CMA to be sustainable?

I am setting up Bill Pay through Wells Fargo, and will loose the higher-interest benefit of CMA in exchange of the convenience of having 5,800 banks all over the USA. Is it worth it? Guess we all place our bets, and take our chances.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:46 am

Taildragger wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 am
I am setting up Bill Pay through Wells Fargo, ... in exchange of the convenience of having 5,800 banks all over the USA. Is it worth it? Guess we all place our bets, and take our chances.
Gee whiz we only have 3100 bank locations available "all over the US". But I can walk to one in five minutes and the nearest Wells Fargo (Retail Bank) is over 100 miles away.

(Fidelity and Schwab offices are within a ten minute drive.)

Wells Fargo is definitely worth it.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by heartwood » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm

heartwood wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm

...

Fidelity Bill Pay: Ours is a joint account at Fidelity with each of us having a unique user name and PW for the same account. If I logon and send a bill pay check it only has my name on it; my wife's name doesn't show. I called Fidelity and after they checked with the outside bill pay vendor, United Missouri Bank, confirmed only one name gets printed. They suggested that if my wife logged on and sent a bill pay check it would use her name, but weren't positive. She's testing that now. They offered that we could always put her name in the note feature.

...
Update: We got the bill pay check today. Fidelity was wrong. My wife logged into our joint account using her ID and PW. She sent herself a bill pay check. It has only my name as the payer.

Not fatal, but annoying since it looks like it comes only from me. Reminder to self: always use the note feature. :oops:

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:03 pm

heartwood wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
heartwood wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm

...

Fidelity Bill Pay: Ours is a joint account at Fidelity with each of us having a unique user name and PW for the same account. If I logon and send a bill pay check it only has my name on it; my wife's name doesn't show. I called Fidelity and after they checked with the outside bill pay vendor, United Missouri Bank, confirmed only one name gets printed. They suggested that if my wife logged on and sent a bill pay check it would use her name, but weren't positive. She's testing that now. They offered that we could always put her name in the note feature.

...
Update: We got the bill pay check today. Fidelity was wrong. My wife logged into our joint account using her ID and PW. She sent herself a bill pay check. It has only my name as the payer.

Not fatal, but annoying since it looks like it comes only from me. Reminder to self: always use the note feature. :oops:
The name on the check is tied to the taxpayer identification number. It is annoying, but I don't think you can do anything about it. The other joint owner's name can be put in the Memo field if that needs to be done.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Taildragger » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:26 am

Two things:

1. BRANCH LOCATIONS
Here are location map images for the 100 Fidelity Investor Center locations and 5,600 Wells Fargo (WF) banks.

Twelve states do not have WFs. Thirteen states do not have Fidelities.

https://www.fidelity.com/branches/overview

https://www.wellsfargo.com/locator/#id

2. SERVICES (Notary and signature guarantees)
a. My local WF bank manager just notarized my wife and my Wills for FREE, a $30+ value. Would Fidelity do that for free?

b. Would Fidelity Investor Centers sign a Medallion Signature Guarantee document?
This would be required for rare but critically important financial transaction paper documents. A Signature guarantee is a binding warranty, issued by an agent of the authorized guarantor institution.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by 8foot7 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:44 am

Taildragger wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 am
My Vanguard representative and I had a spirited debate about the demise of the Vanguard Advantage account. He asked a good question:

What happens if Fidelity decides to cancel their CMA (Cash Management Account)?

That leads to my question:

Is Fidelity making enough profit from CMA to be sustainable?

I am setting up Bill Pay through Wells Fargo, and will loose the higher-interest benefit of CMA in exchange of the convenience of having 5,800 banks all over the USA. Is it worth it? Guess we all place our bets, and take our chances.
While the CMA (and before that it was called MySmartCash) accounts are only a few years old, Fidelity has permitted checkwriting of any amount (not just >$250) and debit cards on brokerage accounts since the early 1990s—I have had them—and bill pay for not much less time. I think the rule to turn them on was a $5,000 balance for a long time.

We are talking about capabilities Fidelity has supported for brokerage customers for close to 30 years now. So while the CMA itself may come and go the core “checking platform” account capabilities have outlasted the Vanguard solution and frankly have exceeded it for many years already in terms of availability to customers. I would highly doubt they are going to pull the plug on them after so long with so many entrenched users.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by 8foot7 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:52 am

Taildragger wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:26 am


2. SERVICES (Notary and signature guarantees)
a. My local WF bank manager just notarized my wife and my Wills for FREE, a $30+ value. Would Fidelity do that for ...
Not only would our Wells Fargo not notarize our wills, they wouldn’t notarize a car title transfer either. They said their policy was they wouldn’t notarize any legal document. I asked them what other documents need notarization than a legal document. She had no answer.

Perhaps this policy is different in different regions or perhaps this person was misinformed but no matter—our closest. Wells Fargo is unavailable to us for notarizarion.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:38 am

Taildragger wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:26 am
2. SERVICES (Notary and signature guarantees)
a. My local WF bank manager just notarized my wife and my Wills for FREE, a $30+ value. Would Fidelity do that for free?
Every bank I've ever done business with provides notary services for FREE. Free is the norm, not the exception.

Every bank I've ever done business with provides medallion services for FREE also.

My mother tried to get PNC to notarize a POA for USAA (USAA specific POA) and they refused. They also refused to fax it for her (they always fax free for her) if she got it notarized somewhere else. They then referred her to the UPS store in the same strip mall that charges $8 for notary, has no issue notarizing anything, and charges for faxing (she mailed it).

I did find that Fifth Third was uncomfortable providing notarized signatures and witnesses when we did my late 80 year old inlaws POAs. They asked them both questions to verify they seemed lucid, which was fine with me.

You couldn't pay me to open accounts with Wells Fargo, they totally lost the public trust and have no right to earn it back IMO.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by jpsfranks » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:07 am

Taildragger wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:26 am
2. SERVICES (Notary and signature guarantees)
a. My local WF bank manager just notarized my wife and my Wills for FREE, a $30+ value. Would Fidelity do that for free?

b. Would Fidelity Investor Centers sign a Medallion Signature Guarantee document?
This would be required for rare but critically important financial transaction paper documents. A Signature guarantee is a binding warranty, issued by an agent of the authorized guarantor institution.
I have received signature guarantees at a Fidelity branch. Meanwhile my national mega corp bank refuses to give them at my nearby branch.

I have not tried and cannot speak to whether Fidelity would serve as a notary.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by mpnret » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:47 am

Doc wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:46 am
Taildragger wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 am
I am setting up Bill Pay through Wells Fargo, ... in exchange of the convenience of having 5,800 banks all over the USA. Is it worth it? Guess we all place our bets, and take our chances.
Gee whiz we only have 3100 bank locations available "all over the US". But I can walk to one in five minutes and the nearest Wells Fargo (Retail Bank) is over 100 miles away.

(Fidelity and Schwab offices are within a ten minute drive.)

Wells Fargo is definitely worth it.
Wells Fargo definitely works for me. Great bill pay service. I've been with them (under a previous name) even before the first bill pay service which was actually called pay by phone where you paid your bills by touch tone phone. I can't comment on their investment services. Never used them, never will. But you can't beat having a interest checking account with a crappy rate that gives you access to decent free bill pay, payments through Zelle, ATM's and local branches all over the place, free checks, lots of free in branch services like notary, medallion signature guarantee, certified checks, paper savings bond redemption, etc. Of course your cost is the low rate you get on the account. That's why I manage that account balance by moving money electronically between Vanguard and my Synchrony high yield savings account.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by prudent » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:54 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:38 am
My mother tried to get PNC to notarize a POA for USAA (USAA specific POA) and they refused. They also refused to fax it for her (they always fax free for her) if she got it notarized somewhere else. They then referred her to the UPS store in the same strip mall that charges $8 for notary, has no issue notarizing anything, and charges for faxing (she mailed it).
I suspect branches make up their own rules for these things. When administering an estate last year I needed a beneficiary to have a document signed/notarized and I suggested we meet at a PNC near the beneficiary because I had an account at PNC. They did it without quibble and while the notary wanted to see the beneficiary's ID, they didn't know if either of us were customers or not - they never checked and neither of us had ever set foot in that branch prior.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Jimmbo » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:36 pm

mpnret wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:47 am
That's why I manage that account balance by moving money electronically between Vanguard and my Synchrony high yield savings account.
What purpose does Synchrony serve in that set-up? Any reason you're not just keeping it all at Vanguard?

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by William4u » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:19 pm

I'm setting up my new Fidelity Brokerage account, and I have a choice of core sweep MM funds for my direct deposit: either Fidelity Government Money Market Fund (SPAXX) or Fidelity Treasury Fund (FZFXX).

It seems to me that FZFXX is the best choice for the core sweep fund, since it is 100% state tax free (SPAXX is only partially state tax free). They are within 1bp of each other: FZFXX is 2.04% and SPAXX is 2.05%.

Is this correct, or am I missing something? Is FZFXX the obvious choice as a core sweep?

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Jimmbo » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:45 pm

It seems like most of you are doing fairly complicated things, while my plan is more simple. Does this mean I haven't anticipated something? Would anyone please sanity check me?

1. All recurring bills formerly paid by Advantage billpay get auto-paid by credit card (Chase Sapphire).

2. I already have a Simple.com online banking account (lots of free ATMs, low fees, good attitudes). Credit card pulls from Simple, and my Vanguard settlement account pushes to Simple. So once a month I push from Vanguard, wait a day, then pull from credit card.

I think that's that. So what am I missing?

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by greybus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:41 pm

William4u wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:19 pm
I'm setting up my new Fidelity Brokerage account, and I have a choice of core sweep MM funds for my direct deposit: either Fidelity Government Money Market Fund (SPAXX) or Fidelity Treasury Fund (FZFXX).

It seems to me that FZFXX is the best choice for the core sweep fund, since it is 100% state tax free (SPAXX is only partially state tax free). They are within 1bp of each other: FZFXX is 2.04% and SPAXX is 2.05%.

Is this correct, or am I missing something? Is FZFXX the obvious choice as a core sweep?
You can check out the respective percentage of Income from US government securities from Fidelity's PDF here https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060 ... 18-gse.pdf. In case the link gets mangled, here's the general page: https://www.fidelity.com/tax-informatio ... nformation.

You can see that Fidelity Government Money Market Fund (all classes) has 56.16% from US Gov securities, while Fidelity Treasury Money Market Fund (all classes) only has 40.06% so it would appear that Fidelity Government Money Market would be a better choice when considering state tax free dividends. Also, California, Connecticut and New York require a fund to be over a certain % before you can exempt the dividend from tax, and Fidelity Treasury Money Market did not meet that criteria (marked with an asterisk) so technically it is not exempt in those states.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by xb7 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:56 am

Jimmbo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:45 pm
1. All recurring bills formerly paid by Advantage billpay get auto-paid by credit card (Chase Sapphire).
The mismatch with my situation is that a good number of our recurring bills don't allow the option of paying by credit card. I'm not talking here about "can pay that way if you're willing to pay a fee to do so", but rather --- just can't do it at all. For these, we use ACH "pull model". My daughter suggeted to me that she prefers bill pay (push model) because she's had the experience of the bill not being 'pulled' and then they nevertheless feel that she owes them a late fee. Hasn't happened to me, however, and it seems like almost every month, one or another of our bill amounts change. With the "pull" model, I don't have to try to keep up all the time with what's owed *this* month.

We definitely do pay by credit card where that's an option.

Apart from that, your simple plan sounds great to me; our new model is about the same, except using Ally bank now rather than simple.com.
Simple is an interesting approach; I guess I understand and feel more comfortable with Ally insofar as they're an actual bank, but who knows --- maybe your approach there is better. For me, the additional complexity is arbitrating between having enough in Vanguard MM to cover automatic monthly transfers to Ally, enough in Ally checking to cover various monthly bills, and enough in Ally savings to cover a few credit card bills and as money available instantly transfer to checking at need. Just starting to do this, so I guess I'll figure out the right mix and associated process over the next several months. Something that's very simple is certainly my goal too.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by OnLevel » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:09 am

heartwood wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
heartwood wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm

...

Fidelity Bill Pay: Ours is a joint account at Fidelity with each of us having a unique user name and PW for the same account. If I logon and send a bill pay check it only has my name on it; my wife's name doesn't show. I called Fidelity and after they checked with the outside bill pay vendor, United Missouri Bank, confirmed only one name gets printed. They suggested that if my wife logged on and sent a bill pay check it would use her name, but weren't positive. She's testing that now. They offered that we could always put her name in the note feature.

...
Update: We got the bill pay check today. Fidelity was wrong. My wife logged into our joint account using her ID and PW. She sent herself a bill pay check. It has only my name as the payer.

Not fatal, but annoying since it looks like it comes only from me. Reminder to self: always use the note feature. :oops:
Does it matter that it looks like it comes from you instead of your wife? It's an honest question, I use billpay on my bank account to push payments to credit cards that are only in my wife's name, and I've never thought about how the payment looks to the payee.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Zephavest » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:26 am

Wells Fargo back in the news, fatal tailspin?
Principal Financial close to Wells Fargo retirement unit acquisition-sources
March 17, 2019

(Reuters) - Principal Financial Group Inc is in advanced talks to acquire Wells Fargo & Co's retirement plan services business, in a deal that could exceed $1 billion, people familiar with the matter said on Sunday.

Wells Fargo has been seeking to streamline its business as it grapples with the fallout of customer abuse scandals. The bank is prohibited from growing in size after the Federal Reserve slapped it with an unprecedented asset cap in February 2018, citing "widespread consumer abuses and compliance breakdowns."

It is the latest in a series of divestments pursued by Wells Fargo.

The disclosure three years ago that Wells Fargo created millions of fake customer accounts prompted regulatory probes into mortgage foreclosures, auto insurance sales and its wealth management businesses, resulting in billions of dollars in fines.
(shortened for brevity, see link for full article)
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/principa ... nance.html

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by essbeer » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:50 am

galawdawg wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:13 am
This morning Vanguard finally sent me an email notifying me of the end of VanguardAdvantage. I suppose the overwhelming number of Flagship clients that used the service meant that it took Vanguard a full two weeks to get all of the notification emails sent out. :annoyed
Other than one email (which went straight into my clutter folder) I haven't received any notice from Vanguard about the service closing. There are, unbelievably, no messages about it in my Vanguard message folder. If it hadn't been for reading Bogleheads I wouldn't even know this is happening. A lot of people are going to be blindsided.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by mpnret » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:32 am

Jimmbo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:36 pm
mpnret wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:47 am
Wells Fargo definitely works for me. Great bill pay service. I've been with them (under a previous name) even before the first bill pay service which was actually called pay by phone where you paid your bills by touch tone phone. I can't comment on their investment services. Never used them, never will. But you can't beat having a interest checking account with a crappy rate that gives you access to decent free bill pay, payments through Zelle, ATM's and local branches all over the place, free checks, lots of free in branch services like notary, medallion signature guarantee, certified checks, paper savings bond redemption, etc. Of course your cost is the low rate you get on the account. That's why I manage that account balance by moving money electronically between Vanguard and my Synchrony high yield savings account.
What purpose does Synchrony serve in that set-up? Any reason you're not just keeping it all at Vanguard?
The Synchrony ATM card gives me backup to my Wells Fargo ATM card on a diffferent ATM network. I may never need it but it is also good if I want to exceed the daily limit for a large cash withdrawal. Synchrony also has good high yield savings account and CD rates. I use the high yield savings and also ladder some CD's with the money I like to keep FDIC insured.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by dkturner » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:42 am

OnLevel wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:09 am
heartwood wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
heartwood wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm

...

Fidelity Bill Pay: Ours is a joint account at Fidelity with each of us having a unique user name and PW for the same account. If I logon and send a bill pay check it only has my name on it; my wife's name doesn't show. I called Fidelity and after they checked with the outside bill pay vendor, United Missouri Bank, confirmed only one name gets printed. They suggested that if my wife logged on and sent a bill pay check it would use her name, but weren't positive. She's testing that now. They offered that we could always put her name in the note feature.

...
Update: We got the bill pay check today. Fidelity was wrong. My wife logged into our joint account using her ID and PW. She sent herself a bill pay check. It has only my name as the payer.

Not fatal, but annoying since it looks like it comes only from me. Reminder to self: always use the note feature. :oops:
Does it matter that it looks like it comes from you instead of your wife? It's an honest question, I use billpay on my bank account to push payments to credit cards that are only in my wife's name, and I've never thought about how the payment looks to the payee.
This is probably only important when Fidelity issues a physical check, because it doesn’t have an eft arrangement with your payee. Most credit card bill payments are handled electronically using only the account number.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by drew » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:02 am

I was on hold with Fidelity for 15 minutes this weekend before disconnecting and decided to ask here instead. Can someone clarify which funds they will liquidate to cover the CMA? Is it just SPAXX/FZFXX or is it any money market fund?

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by HueyLD » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:28 am

drew wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:02 am
I was on hold with Fidelity for 15 minutes this weekend before disconnecting and decided to ask here instead. Can someone clarify which funds they will liquidate to cover the CMA? Is it just SPAXX/FZFXX or is it any money market fund?
Per https://www.fidelity.com/cash-managemen ... nt-account

“No, Cash Manager overdraft protection is funded by using available funds (available cash, available margin, and non-core Fidelity money market assets) from a hierarchy of Fidelity funding accounts (up to $99,999.99 per day per funding account) that you designate. It will not sell equity or bond positions or non-money market funds, and will not subject you to variations in market conditions.

Note: Available margin or non-core money market funds are used to cover overdrafts only if you select that as an option.
Fidelity funding accounts are tapped in the order you specified in your funding account hierarchy. If there are not enough funds in all of your Fidelity funding accounts to cover a debit request, no money will be transferred, and the debit will be referred to the Fidelity Margin Department for a payment decision. Debit card transactions are always rejected if there are not enough funds, because there is not enough time for the Margin Department to research other possible available funds.

Cash Manager only moves available cash once per day. Every night, Fidelity checks the cash balance in your Fidelity® Cash Management Account. If that balance is below your minimum target balance, Cash Manager moves enough available cash from your funding accounts (up to $99,999.99 per day per funding account) to your Fidelity® Cash Management Account to restore its cash balance to the minimum target balance. If there is not enough cash in the first funding account in your hierarchy, Cash Manager checks the second funding account in your hierarchy for available funds. This process continues until the Fidelity® Cash Management Account cash balance is restored, or there are no more accounts in your funding account hierarchy. Cash Manager will always attempt to move the minimum transfer amount or the difference between the actual cash balance and the minimum target balance, whichever is larger.”

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by heartwood » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:58 am

dkturner wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:42 am
OnLevel wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:09 am
heartwood wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
heartwood wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm

...

Fidelity Bill Pay: Ours is a joint account at Fidelity with each of us having a unique user name and PW for the same account. If I logon and send a bill pay check it only has my name on it; my wife's name doesn't show. I called Fidelity and after they checked with the outside bill pay vendor, United Missouri Bank, confirmed only one name gets printed. They suggested that if my wife logged on and sent a bill pay check it would use her name, but weren't positive. She's testing that now. They offered that we could always put her name in the note feature.

...
Update: We got the bill pay check today. Fidelity was wrong. My wife logged into our joint account using her ID and PW. She sent herself a bill pay check. It has only my name as the payer.

Not fatal, but annoying since it looks like it comes only from me. Reminder to self: always use the note feature. :oops:
Does it matter that it looks like it comes from you instead of your wife? It's an honest question, I use billpay on my bank account to push payments to credit cards that are only in my wife's name, and I've never thought about how the payment looks to the payee.
This is probably only important when Fidelity issues a physical check, because it doesn’t have an eft arrangement with your payee. Most credit card bill payments are handled electronically using only the account number.
As I said its not fatal just annoying. Its also apparently inconsistent within their shop. I'm told paper checks in your checkbook have the full account names on them. Its the bill pay checks that omit my wife's name. Vanguard bill pay checks show both names on the account so it looks like Fidelity's setup is an artifact of the outside bank (OMB) that provides Fidelity's bill pay service. I flagged it here in the interest of no surprises. So far most of my transition has worked well from the Fidelity side other than the 7 day hold on cash pulled from the Fidelity side.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Jimmbo » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:22 pm

xb7 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:56 am
For me, the additional complexity is arbitrating between having enough in Vanguard MM to cover automatic monthly transfers to Ally, enough in Ally checking to cover various monthly bills, and enough in Ally savings to cover a few credit card bills and as money available instantly transfer to checking at need. Just starting to do this, so I guess I'll figure out the right mix and associated process over the next several months. Something that's very simple is certainly my goal too.

Yeah, ok, thanks. That's the issue. Funding the intermediary bank account. I've had enough $$ in my Vanguard MM account that this was never an issue. And I'm definitely not going to leave a big pool of money in a checking acct.

So here's what I'm thinking. My credit card bill will include both knowable and unpredictable expenses, so there's no sane way to automate Vanguard's funding of my checking acct (Simple) to cover that. So I'm resigned to a monthly task of 1. manually checking credit card balance, 2. pushing funds Vanguard>>Simple and 3. pulling funds Credit Card<<Simple. Not a big deal, and trying to automate any of that would surely bring heartache.

The only dangling issue I can think of is that for years I've funded Simple in dribs/drabs for walking-around money (via ATM). I don't want to get pinched on that amid all the higher-level funding that's about to happen. So the one automatic process I'll order is to transfer maybe $300 monthly from Vanguard to Simple to protect this buffer.

BTW, see my next posting for an important reminder that's pertinent to this issue of funding the intermediary bank account.
Last edited by Jimmbo on Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Don't Forget You Can Wire Your Bank in Just One Day!

Post by Jimmbo » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:25 pm

One thing I want to make sure people realize going forward, as we try to keep our checking accounts dynamically funded:

Vanguard bank transfers take 2 or 3 days, but there's an option to send via Wire, which takes only 1 day. Good to know in a pinch!

You must opt for it every time, and both ways are free from Vanguard (at least if you're Flagship), though you need to check whether your bank charges a fee to receive a wire (mine doesn't).

Also: I'm assuming you can only Wire via manual actions, not automated.

Two more conditions:
1. Wires are only available for amounts above $1000.
2. Don't select "Transfer to/from bank", which offers only 2-3 day transfer. Instead, use "Sell Vanguard Funds", choose your settlement acct, then choose "wire".
Last edited by Jimmbo on Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by xb7 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Jimmbo wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:22 pm
So here's what I'm thinking. My credit card bill will include both knowable and unpredictable expenses, so there's no sane way to automate Vanguard's funding of my checking acct (Simple) to cover that. So I'm resigned to a monthly task of 1. manually checking credit card balance, 2. pushing funds Vanguard>>Simple and 3. pulling funds Credit Card<<Simple. Not a big deal, and trying to automate any of that would surely bring heartache.

The only dangling issue I can think of is that for years I've funded Simple in dribs/drabs for walking-around money (via ATM). I don't want to get pinched on that amid all the higher-level funding that's about to happen. So the one automatic process I'll order is to transfer maybe $300 monthly from Vanguard to Simple to protect this buffer.
I'm thinking along similar lines. I don't want to keep too much in checking --- Ally savings currently pays 2.2% interest, pretty close to my Vanguard MM, whereas Ally checking pays 0.1% at the levels that I'm inclined to fun it. So my plan is to automatically shift a certain amount per month from Vanguard MM to Ally checking, and another amount to Ally savings (this latter based on a rough monthly average of annual credit card bills, and of course something I can adjust as I go along).

In savings I can have up to 6 outbound transactions per month, including ACH. So I plan to pay major credit card bills --- my most significant varying expenses --- out of savings, and then the more consistent, predictable bills out of checking. So in checking I'll have a certain "flow through" amount plus a reasonable safety buffer. And I reckon I'll split up my remaining cash between Vanguard MM and Ally Savings --- I always want enough in the former to cover the automatic monthly transfers, and I always want enough in the latter to cover varying credit card bills plus as an option to shift money from savings to checking at need (this transfer is said by Ally to be "instant").

I'm hoping that this will be "mostly automatic", with just occasional need to check on balances and shift monies. Plus I'll put alerts on all three accounts to let me know whenever they drop below a certain level.

One nuances is that Ally checking has the option of "automatic overdraft" coverage. I called and this means that not only will they pull money from savings to cover a check with insufficient funds in checking, but also will do so if I try to get money from an ATM and checking funds are insufficient for that.
So I'm mixed about using this; at first glance it seemed like an obvious thing to do, but if someone had my debit card and code and I didn't catch it right away or couldn't respond or something --- then they could tap into not only checking, but funds in savings as well.

Ally also has an app (unfortunately not rated well at all on Google Play) for control of debit card; what I read is that one option is to set it up so that they will compare the location of an ATM that's being used to the location of my phone, and not allow a withdrawal if the phone isn't close by. Kind of spiffy, assuming that my phone wasn't stolen as well.
Still --- I think I'll pass on the overdraft coverage thing.

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Re: Don't Forget You Can Wire Your Bank in Just One Day!

Post by xb7 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:00 pm

Jimmbo wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:25 pm
One thing I want to make sure people realize going forward, as we try to keep our checking accounts dynamically funded:

Vanguard bank transfers take 2 or 3 days, but there's an option to send via Wire, which takes only 1 day. Good to know in a pinch!

You must opt for it every time, and both ways are free from Vanguard (at least if you're Flagship), though you need to check whether your bank charges a fee to receive a wire (mine doesn't).

Also: I'm assuming you can only Wire via manual actions, not automated.
A timely point as I was wondering about this. I know how to move money on a one-time basis from Vanguard using the existing VanguardAdvantage process, and I know how to set up monthly automatic transfers that will continue to work after "Advantage" goes away. But I'm not sure how to go about doing a one-time wire transfer after VanguardAdvantage is gone. Maybe I just overlooked something last time I was logged on and poking around, but if anyone happens to know the specific menu sequence in Vanguard to do this, I would appreciate it, if only to be certain it can still be done after July 31st! TIA.

To be clear, I think it will be useful if not necessary to have BOTH automatic AND one-time money-moving solutions, because I expect that on occasion I'll want to move some money from Vanguard to my bank without wanting to change the automatic transfers in order to do so.

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Re: Don't Forget You Can Wire Your Bank in Just One Day!

Post by dkturner » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:06 pm

Jimmbo wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:25 pm
One thing I want to make sure people realize going forward, as we try to keep our checking accounts dynamically funded:

Vanguard bank transfers take 2 or 3 days, but there's an option to send via Wire, which takes only 1 day. Good to know in a pinch!

You must opt for it every time, and both ways are free from Vanguard (at least if you're Flagship), though you need to check whether your bank charges a fee to receive a wire (mine doesn't).

Also: I'm assuming you can only Wire via manual actions, not automated.

Two more conditions:
1. Wires are only available for amounts above $1000.
2. Don't select "Transfer to/from bank", which offers only 2-3 day transfer. Instead, use "Sell Vanguard Funds", choose your settlement acct, then choose "wire".
I have found that if I do an ACH transfer by “pushing” money from my Vanguard MM fund (before Noon) on a business day I have the money in my Chase checking account the next business day, and these funds are available for withdrawal from the Chase account that same day. In my mind that’s almost as good as a wire.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Jimmbo » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:23 pm

xb7 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:53 pm
So I'm mixed about using this; at first glance it seemed like an obvious thing to do, but if someone had my debit card and code and I didn't catch it right away or couldn't respond or something --- then they could tap into not only checking, but funds in savings as well.
I'd urge you to shift from "mixed" to "abhorred". My bedrock financial security move is to never create an easy siphon to my motherlode of cash. That's why I never used the Vanguard Aadvantage debit card for online transactions, or to fund my PayPal account. I permit no open usage cases for any account with significant balance.

Our forefathers, who tended to erect firewalls between their checking and savings accounts, were prescient. Savings go in a vault, literally and figuratively. Convenience is not always the imperative :happy

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:38 pm

dkturner wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:06 pm
I have found that if I do an ACH transfer by “pushing” money from my Vanguard MM fund (before Noon) on a business day I have the money in my Chase checking account the next business day, and these funds are available for withdrawal from the Chase account that same day. In my mind that’s almost as good as a wire.
I confirmed that last week with another bank. Although I'm not actually sure exactly what "noon" is.

Also it's likely to be your settlement MM fund only.

I'm in the process of setting up a similar type cash transfer using our margin account at Schwab. I belive "noon" for Schwab is close of business. Since Schwab now uses Schwab Bank for it's settlement fund I'll put some T-Bills in that account which are paying very well these days and I will have to sell some to fund the transfer. Since it is a margin account account the money will still transfer the net business day and I will incur a small amount of margin expense until the next business day. This works at Schwab because they have very low spreads on Treasuries even with very small amounts often only one for T-Bills. Except for the "noon" issue you could do something similar at Vangaurd and Fidelity by using a non settlement MM as long as you have a margin account.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:11 pm

I also question what "noon" is exactly, but I can definitely attest to the fact that if you're pushing money from Vanguard to Fidelity you're going to have it about as fast as if you were transferring money from one Vanguard account to another. Once you push it to Fidelity, it's available (there's no hold as there would be if it's pulled from Vanguard by Fidelity). I know that we're splitting hairs here, but if do have your Fidelity account tied into the bank choices at Vanguard, you're going to be able to use those Vanguard funds at Fidelity very quickly.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:45 pm

Artsdoctor wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:11 pm
Once you push it to Fidelity, it's available (there's no hold as there would be if it's pulled from Vanguard by Fidelity).
That is probably correct but if you initiate that pull at Fidelity from your linked bank the funds are available to use as soon as the screen refreshes. Same as pulling from your bank to Vanguard.

"Available" means to buy something. You probably can't sell what you buy or move the money back out for up to seven business days.
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by beyou » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:55 pm

The length of this thread highlights the reason I don't shop around for the best rate on checking and savings.
What a pain to change your transaction account for bill paying.

I have 3 such accts, online-only bank, national branch bank and etrade with cash management features (ATM/debit, checking, bill pay).
While each has it's pros and cons and different primary/original purposes, I keep all 3 open and have not changed "banks" for many years.
If any suddenly make changes that require great effort on my part, I can live with the other 2. I hope not to open another bank account for many years. Not worth the effort, keep most assets in Vanguard and have all 3 of above setup on Vanguard. Easy to move $ around, one stop shopping may be tantalizing but 2 of my 3 banks make it really easy to move $ around, so no need.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:23 pm

Doc wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:45 pm
Artsdoctor wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:11 pm
Once you push it to Fidelity, it's available (there's no hold as there would be if it's pulled from Vanguard by Fidelity).
That is probably correct but if you initiate that pull at Fidelity from your linked bank the funds are available to use as soon as the screen refreshes. Same as pulling from your bank to Vanguard.

"Available" means to buy something. You probably can't sell what you buy or move the money back out for up to seven business days.
I think you noted this upthread, but if you push your funds from Vanguard to Fidelity, those funds will arrive the next day and be available to withdraw then. There will not be a hold on those funds.

If I initiate the transfer from the Fidelity side (pull the money from Vanguard), it'll take about 2-3 days for the funds to arrive and then will only be available to withdraw after 5-7 days (however, you can trade with those funds whenever they arrive).

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by hotpancakes » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 pm

Artsdoctor wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:23 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:45 pm
Artsdoctor wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:11 pm
Once you push it to Fidelity, it's available (there's no hold as there would be if it's pulled from Vanguard by Fidelity).
That is probably correct but if you initiate that pull at Fidelity from your linked bank the funds are available to use as soon as the screen refreshes. Same as pulling from your bank to Vanguard.

"Available" means to buy something. You probably can't sell what you buy or move the money back out for up to seven business days.
I think you noted this upthread, but if you push your funds from Vanguard to Fidelity, those funds will arrive the next day and be available to withdraw then. There will not be a hold on those funds.

If I initiate the transfer from the Fidelity side (pull the money from Vanguard), it'll take about 2-3 days for the funds to arrive and then will only be available to withdraw after 5-7 days (however, you can trade with those funds whenever they arrive).
Is it even possible to pull from Vanguard? Last time I called, they were confused about the black voodoo magic that is the ACH pull. They told me I could only push to a linked bank account.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by indexfundfan » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:21 pm

hotpancakes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 pm
Is it even possible to pull from Vanguard? Last time I called, they were confused about the black voodoo magic that is the ACH pull. They told me I could only push to a linked bank account.
In general, you can't pull, unless you have the Vanguard Advantage account. But this is going away, and hence all the posts in this thread.
My signature has been deleted.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Artsdoctor » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:32 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:21 pm
hotpancakes wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 pm
Is it even possible to pull from Vanguard? Last time I called, they were confused about the black voodoo magic that is the ACH pull. They told me I could only push to a linked bank account.
In general, you can't pull, unless you have the Vanguard Advantage account. But this is going away, and hence all the posts in this thread.
That's right. You can definitely pull from Vanguard via the Advantage Account. However, I don't think you can do it from any other account so that will go away in July.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by dkturner » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:57 am

While we’re on the subject of pushing and pulling, is it possible to push money from a bank account to a Fidelity brokerage money market fund using your bank’s BillPay function? Has anyone tried this maneuver?

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Doc » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:16 am

dkturner wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:57 am
While we’re on the subject of pushing and pulling, is it possible to push money from a bank account to a Fidelity brokerage money market fund using your bank’s BillPay function? Has anyone tried this maneuver?
Fidelity Investments wrote:Direct Deposit: BEST OPTION FOR RECURRING DEPOSITS

Works best or recurring deposits from your paycheck, pension or Social Security checks. Just proved the information below to your employer, government agency or another third party.
One would think that your bank was "another third party".

I was able to set up the external transfer using the ABA Number and Account Number provided by Fidelity but I've never used it because a pull initiated at Fidelity gives me immediate access to the money as discussed earlier.

Note that this is not a "Bill Pay" function which is a check type transaction but rather a direct deposit which is an ACH transfer. (I think.)
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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by mscoin » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:16 pm

I was told that there will be checkwriting on the new iteration (Brokerage account), and I was sent a form to fill out. Representative says I can have checkwriting (with new checks) but not a debit card or bill pay. Anyone else told this?

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Jimmbo » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:29 pm

I'm routing all bills to credit card. So my big issue is paying credit card bill. Here's the workflow:

1. Check (Chase) credit card balance.

2. Transfer funds from Vanguard MM to checking acct to cover balance.

3. Pull an ACH from my credit card web site from my checking acct.

I'd love to do these all at once, but am worried about timing. Credit card people say "withdrawal from your pay-from account will generally occur within two business days of this payment date, but the exact timing is dependent on your bank's processing schedule). And Vanguard's transfer should take about the same.

Do I dare do both transfers on the same day, or do I need to make this a multi-day process every month? (I asked the bank for their advice, and they slobbered "Aaaaaaaaydunno!")

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Rager1 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:35 pm

Here's a copy of what we sent to our Flagship representative this morning:
******************************************************************************************
Good Morning XXXX,

We are requesting that you submit this feedback to the Vanguard decision makers who decided to eliminate the Vanguard Advantage Account. Patti and I became investors at Vanguard in February, 1993 when we found that Vanguard offered us a “better deal” than we had previously. Over the past 26 years, we’ve influenced many other investors to move their investments to Vanguard.

When we discovered Vanguard’s Advantage Account, we gladly dropped our bank and signed up for this wonderful service in November, 2004. We loved the fact that we could have everything consolidated at one place, operate our finances at the lowest possible cost, and handle everything at Vanguard. Using the Advantage account, we were able to handle all of our income and expenses, most of it on automatic, and all we had to do was to make sure we had enough money in the Advantage account to cover our expenses when they were due. Again, we told many others about the Advantage account and many of them also opened the Advantage account based on our suggestion and feedback about the features of the account.

We were stunned when we heard the news that Vanguard was discontinuing the Advantage account at the end of July, 2019. You’ll recall that Patti and I called you during our road trip to Las Vegas last month to verify that was true. We read that the decision was made because the Advantage account wasn’t meeting the needs of its customers and you confirmed this to us when we spoke with you. We returned home from that trip two weeks ago on March 4, 2019. Since that time, we’ve worked every day to set up new arrangements to meet our cash needs in the future.

I spent the entire day on Monday, March 5 visiting four local banks, one credit union, and a Fidelity Customer Service center to find the most cost effective replacement for the Advantage account. Fidelity’s Cash Management Account provided that replacement for us. However, finding the replacement was the easy part, the hard part is changing all of the details involved in managing our household’s cash management needs. Redirecting direct deposits from the Advantage account to our new account, setting up a new bill pay service, contacting all of the utilities that ACH our Advantage account to give them new instructions, etc.

Yesterday, for example, we spent 45 minutes outside of our local Social Security Administration Office, waiting to get inside. Once inside, we spent an additional 1 ½ hours waiting in another line to get a number. Then, we waited another hour to get served. All we were trying to do was to change our direct deposit from Vanguard Advantage to our new account. It took us the entire day to handle this simple request.

I could go on, but I think you get the message that Vanguard’s decision to eliminate the Advantage account has put many of its long-time customers and advocates in a frustrating and time-consuming mess. We’re deeply disappointed in this decision by Vanguard.

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Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:26 pm

Jimmbo wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:29 pm
I'm routing all bills to credit card. So my big issue is paying credit card bill. Here's the workflow:

1. Check (Chase) credit card balance.

2. Transfer funds from Vanguard MM to checking acct to cover balance.

3. Pull an ACH from my credit card web site from my checking acct.

I'd love to do these all at once, but am worried about timing. Credit card people say "withdrawal from your pay-from account will generally occur within two business days of this payment date, but the exact timing is dependent on your bank's processing schedule). And Vanguard's transfer should take about the same.

Do I dare do both transfers on the same day, or do I need to make this a multi-day process every month? (I asked the bank for their advice, and they slobbered "Aaaaaaaaydunno!")
Why not do this:

You know your Chase credit card due date, right?
1. Set up an auto payment from your checking account to pay your full balance on CC due date. You only need to set it up once.
2. Since your CC statement most likely gives you a 25 day grace period to pay, just transfer the needed funds from Vanguard to your checking account, allowing yourself 3-5 business days to get your funds into your checking account PRIOR to your CC due date.
3.You CC will be paid on due date, BUT make sure you review your CC statement to ensure your transactions are correct. If some major fraud is going on, you have time to get an incident report in, and also to pay what legit charges are present.
4. Use your saved time wisely!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

Jimmbo
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Vanguard is Discontinuing their VanguardAdvantage Accounts

Post by Jimmbo » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:38 pm

Vanguard’s decision to eliminate the Advantage account has put many of its long-time customers and advocates in a frustrating and time-consuming mess.
The problem is that Vanguard's in a far better position to determine this than you are.

Truth is that 2% of customers eligible for Advantage have used it at all. That's nothing more than rounding error. And only some fraction of them are particularly active users, and some fraction of them are as annoyed as you are.

I understand (and Vanguard surely does, too) that these moves can severely inconvenience a few customers. But they wouldn't have made this move if tons of Flagship customers were enthusiastically using the service.

Frankly, it sucked anyway. 10 years behind the times in terms of features and interface, no fee-free ATMs (degrading the high-roller perq aspect), and PNC's service was horrible. Advantage was a crappy service used by a negligible number of users, relying on a stodgy third party bank partner and hacky/lazy third party tech developers. And it wasn't in Vanguard's DNA to create their own in-house version (it had never been more than a quick, outsourced fix for a perceived service gap amid Vanguard's meteoric growth in the 00s).
Last edited by Jimmbo on Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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