Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

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Boston Barry
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Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:55 pm

At the end of last year I bought a used (CPO) 2017 BMW X5 40e. 13,000 miles on it. Had one accident report in January 2018 to the front end, no residual visible damage. The price was just under $45,000. Two weeks later I was rear ended. Police were called, other driver admitted fault, police report made. All in all probably about $15,000 in damage done, other parties insurance paying for it, I never reported to my insurance.

I contacted the other insurance party about receiving money for diminished value. They refuse to pay anything for diminished value as they say there was already an accident on record. I counter argued that the previous accident was already accounted for in price— that was the previous owners accident, that the price I paid accounted for the prior accident and now there is a new incident on record which further diminishes the cars value. No dice. Do I have any recourse?

Thanks in advance!

walkerbait
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by walkerbait » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:04 pm

Geico? If so, good luck.

sport
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by sport » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:08 pm

Perhaps you should submit this to your insurance company and let them "go to bat" for you.

PluckyDucky
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by PluckyDucky » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:10 pm

Why would his insurance do that?

Op needs to sue. Insurance companies hate paying DV claims.

Op, contact an attorney in your state to help you.

123
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by 123 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:15 pm

I suppose after repairs for the most recent accident are completed you could get some appraisals of the current value of the vehicle (which acknowledge the accident history (2)) and, if the value is less than what you paid for the vehicle, you could sue (or use a small claims court) option for diminished value. Before suing you could go back to the insurance company involved again since they would be eventually likely be liable for any litigation settlement.

Prices in the used car market can be pretty variable. It's possible once a vehicle has "been in an accident" its marketability goes down quite a bit. Maybe a 2nd accident doesn't matter. Even though there is no residual visible damage from the first accident maybe we don't know if it was a $3,000 repair or a $20,000 repair. Maybe you overpaid for the vehicle initially.
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by S&L1940 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:19 pm

If diminished value is covered by your carrier(?), than I guess your best path would be to file the claim and let the insurers work it out. Otherwise you gotta sue. Good Luck
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone

Topic Author
Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:22 pm

Sentry Insurance is the company. 123, yes it is difficult to determine exactly the amount of diminished value, but a price was set two weeks before the latest accident ($45K) and now my position is that it is worth less than prior to the accident. Do any members have experience with this? What is the best way to determine new value, should I ask the dealer from whom I bought it how much trade in value to be? Other ideas? I feel I should go into this with some estimated new value.

miamivice
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:25 pm

It is s true statement that insurance companies rarely pay diminished value on a vehicle that has already been in an accident.

It is also true that your own insurance company never pays diminished value on a vehicle you own. Not sure why but that is true.

In order to win, you would need to provide a third party estimate of value before and after the second accident. Unfortunately, there are few appraisers in the business. One big factor in DV claims is whether there is permanent damage. If not, it is hard to claim dv.
Last edited by miamivice on Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PluckyDucky
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by PluckyDucky » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:28 pm

miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:25 pm
It is s true statement that insurance companies rarely pay diminished value on a vehicle that has already been in an accident.

It is also true that your own insurance company never pays diminished value on a vehicle you own. Not sure why but that is true.
DV is not typically included in collision/comprehensive coverage. I think some do offer it as an add on though.

stlutz
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by stlutz » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 pm

How much money are you looking for? Are you planning to sell the car in the near future?

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Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:45 pm

miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:25 pm
It is s true statement that insurance companies rarely pay diminished value on a vehicle that has already been in an accident.

It is also true that your own insurance company never pays diminished value on a vehicle you own. Not sure why but that is true.

In order to win, you would need to provide a third party estimate of value before and after the second accident. Unfortunately, there are few appraisers in the business. One big factor in DV claims is whether there is permanent damage. If not, it is hard to claim dv.
Thanks. I figure since the used value was determined just two weeks prior at 45K (by the sale), that would serve as a good pre-accident value. I guess I will call up dealer and ask to give me a turn in value, and try to plug info into a KBB- like online program for another crack at determining current value. What I didn’t like is the at-fault’s insurance claiming that there is no DV.

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Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:46 pm

stlutz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 pm
How much money are you looking for? Are you planning to sell the car in the near future?
Looking for as little as 1K. It’s been a royal pain in the neck dealing with this (car has been in shop for over a month, had to have frame cut and replaced [riveted]) and I do feel that the car is worth less than just before the accident.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:19 am

Boston Barry wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:46 pm
stlutz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 pm
How much money are you looking for? Are you planning to sell the car in the near future?
Looking for as little as 1K. It’s been a royal pain in the neck dealing with this (car has been in shop for over a month, had to have frame cut and replaced [riveted]) and I do feel that the car is worth less than just before the accident.
Yeah If the frame had to be repaired and not just external damage I would agree it's diminished. Just bumper I would think not. No one is going to pay very much for a car with known welded frame. But the car is worth more than the trade in value so you need something in between.

sawhorse
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by sawhorse » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:36 am

I didn't get diminished value either when my car was rear ended. There was roughly $7k in damage including frame damage. It had never been in an accident. The at fault party's insurance was Allstate. A year later, when I was the one that did the rear ending, I don't think my insurance gave DV either.

SimonJester
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by SimonJester » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:04 am

Boston Barry wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:45 pm
I guess I will call up dealer and ask to give me a turn in value, and try to plug info into a KBB- like online program for another crack at determining current value. What I didn’t like is the at-fault’s insurance claiming that there is no DV.
A dealer trade in price is not anywhere near an appraisal and I doubt you will get anywhere with the insurance company using it. I think it would take an actual appraisal with some sort of statement on the previous accident not affecting the decrease in value of this new appraisal.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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Nate79
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Nate79 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:25 am

You can take it to a BMW dealer after it is fixed and ask them for an estimate of diminished value. The value you paid for it is mostly irrelevant unless you paid exactly the market value. If you overpaid it doesnt mean you get more diminished value.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:54 pm

Boston Barry wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:45 pm
miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:25 pm
It is s true statement that insurance companies rarely pay diminished value on a vehicle that has already been in an accident.

It is also true that your own insurance company never pays diminished value on a vehicle you own. Not sure why but that is true.

In order to win, you would need to provide a third party estimate of value before and after the second accident. Unfortunately, there are few appraisers in the business. One big factor in DV claims is whether there is permanent damage. If not, it is hard to claim dv.
Thanks. I figure since the used value was determined just two weeks prior at 45K (by the sale), that would serve as a good pre-accident value. I guess I will call up dealer and ask to give me a turn in value, and try to plug info into a KBB- like online program for another crack at determining current value. What I didn’t like is the at-fault’s insurance claiming that there is no DV.
As others have said, the fact you bought it for $45k is not sufficient to convince a court that $45k was the fair market value for this car on the day you bought it.

The trade in value is not the fair market value for the car today. Trade in value is less, because the dealer will buy it at a discount and then resell it for fair market value.

What you need is an independent appraisial of the value of the car before and after the second accident (after the car has been repaired). There are few that will help with this.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:57 pm

PluckyDucky wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:28 pm
miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:25 pm
It is s true statement that insurance companies rarely pay diminished value on a vehicle that has already been in an accident.

It is also true that your own insurance company never pays diminished value on a vehicle you own. Not sure why but that is true.
DV is not typically included in collision/comprehensive coverage. I think some do offer it as an add on though.
I think what you are thinking is gap insurance.

Say you buy a brand new car for $50,000, and then drive for 6 months. You get into a wreck. The car is only worth $45,000 at this point, but you don't want to spend $5,000 out of pocket to buy another new car. Gap insurance will cover the difference so you can get a brand new car again.

This isn't what we're talking about here. Here, the vehicle owner keeps the car but pockets a bit extra because if he were to sell it, the vehicle is worth slightly less due to blemish on the record. Diminished value claims are never paid by your own insurance (either collision or uninsured) but only by the other parties insurance.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:02 pm

Boston Barry wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:46 pm
stlutz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 pm
How much money are you looking for? Are you planning to sell the car in the near future?
Looking for as little as 1K. It’s been a royal pain in the neck dealing with this (car has been in shop for over a month, had to have frame cut and replaced [riveted]) and I do feel that the car is worth less than just before the accident.
If the repairs did not restore the vehicle to new condition, you would have a much stronger case for diminished value. A frame that was previously seamless and is now riveted in two locations sounds like it was not restored to new condition.

With that said, it is possible that this is a manufacturer approved repair method and restores the vehicle to original condition, in which case it might not devalue the car much.

Regardless, you would need a letter from an appraiser, experienced in appraising cars that have been in accidents, to make your case to the insurance company.

FRANKLINPROPERTY
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by FRANKLINPROPERTY » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:49 pm

miamivice is right, you need a DV appraisal from an independent. I hired St Lucie but there are literally a hundred auto appraisers out there as more people learn about diminished value. Just make sure to hire one that doesn't also work for insurance companies.

I tried a letter from my dealer to no avail. Also, you wrote that you are seeking $1K? With frame damage, your car has lost about 40% of it's pre-accident value. Sentry will be smiling if they get off paying only a grand, LOL. Best of luck.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Rupert » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:33 pm

PluckyDucky wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:28 pm
miamivice wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:25 pm
It is s true statement that insurance companies rarely pay diminished value on a vehicle that has already been in an accident.

It is also true that your own insurance company never pays diminished value on a vehicle you own. Not sure why but that is true.
DV is not typically included in collision/comprehensive coverage. I think some do offer it as an add on though.
So when your insurance company collects damages on your behalf from an at-fault party's insurance company, they do so via the process of subrogation. "Subrogation" is a legal concept whereby one party is permitted to step in the shoes of another party to whom they owe a legal or contractual obligation. As PluckyDucky said, DV is not included as a component of collision coverage in most states. (I think there may be some states where it is required or is offered as optional coverage). As a result, your own insurance company has no legal or contractual obligation to compensate you for DV. Because they have no legal or contractual obligation to pay DV to you, they cannot, through the process of subrogation, collect DV for you from the at-fault party's insurance company. In other words, they cannot "stand in your shoes" with respect to your claim for DV.

rooms222
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by rooms222 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:36 am

Assuming you live in Boston, there is a case pending about diminished value claims for third party insurers (not your own company) and whether they have to offer anything for DV. https://agencychecklists.com/2018/11/27 ... ase-26678/

Up until now, the Mass. Insurance Commissioner has said they do not. https://diminishedvalueofgeorgia.com/di ... hed-value/

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by sjt » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:15 pm

miamivice wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:57 pm


Say you buy a brand new car for $50,000, and then drive for 6 months. You get into a wreck. The car is only worth $45,000 at this point, but you don't want to spend $5,000 out of pocket to buy another new car. Gap insurance will cover the difference so you can get a brand new car again.
I don't think that's quite how gap insurance works. Lets say the brand new car you bought at $50,000 had a loan at 0% interest for 6 years, that leaves a monthly payment of $694. Well, after driving it for 6 months and getting in a wreck - the car is totalled - but only valued at $45,000, while the loan balance is $45,833 - your gap insurance picks up the $833 so you can pay off the loan.
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:31 pm

sjt wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:15 pm
miamivice wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:57 pm


Say you buy a brand new car for $50,000, and then drive for 6 months. You get into a wreck. The car is only worth $45,000 at this point, but you don't want to spend $5,000 out of pocket to buy another new car. Gap insurance will cover the difference so you can get a brand new car again.
I don't think that's quite how gap insurance works. Lets say the brand new car you bought at $50,000 had a loan at 0% interest for 6 years, that leaves a monthly payment of $694. Well, after driving it for 6 months and getting in a wreck - the car is totalled - but only valued at $45,000, while the loan balance is $45,833 - your gap insurance picks up the $833 so you can pay off the loan.
Yes, miamivice is incorrect and sjt is correct- the GAP insurance pays the deficit between insurance receipt of actual cash value and loan balance, not the difference between cash value and what you paid for the car.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by BogleMelon » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:34 pm

I have a similar experience with DM. The other company refused to pay anything as well. I threatened to go to the court but they didn't care. I thought about getting a report from an appraisal as a proof, but then found this business is very shady and still no guarantee to get anything back. I then sought a lawyer, but the amount was low, and no lawyer could accept the case ($2K~$4K). I thought that I can go by myself to the court, but the idea gave amount of anxiety higher than the value of money. I then decided to stop pursuing the money. May be in the future DM become a standard component in the insurance policies, just like "car rental" option.. Would make life easier..
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Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:50 pm

Thanks for everyone who replied. Update: I just filed in small claims court after insurance company refused payment. I obtained a certified expert appraisal of pre-and post accident value, and this person estimated diminished value of just under $4000. That is what I filed to recover in small claims court. Court date in May. Appraisal cost me $300 and filing and serving papers cost me about $80, I’m doing this more because of interest in how it will play out, with of course the belief that i am owed this money from the guy (or his insurance) that rear-ended my just purchased car at 35 mph. I will update again once court completed.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:00 pm

PluckyDucky wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:10 pm
Why would his insurance do that?

Op needs to sue. Insurance companies hate paying DV claims.

Op, contact an attorney in your state to help you.
Because he pays his insurance company to be his advocate. He could very well file a finished value claim against his own carrier under his UM protection, therefore it is in their interest to try and recover from the other carrier.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:17 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:00 pm
PluckyDucky wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:10 pm
Why would his insurance do that?

Op needs to sue. Insurance companies hate paying DV claims.

Op, contact an attorney in your state to help you.
Because he pays his insurance company to be his advocate. He could very well file a finished value claim against his own carrier under his UM protection, therefore it is in their interest to try and recover from the other carrier.
He cannot file diminished value against his own insurance, even uninsured / underinsured accidents. His own insurance will not pay him diminished value under any circumstances.

miamivice
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:18 pm

Boston Barry wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:50 pm
Thanks for everyone who replied. Update: I just filed in small claims court after insurance company refused payment. I obtained a certified expert appraisal of pre-and post accident value, and this person estimated diminished value of just under $4000. That is what I filed to recover in small claims court. Court date in May. Appraisal cost me $300 and filing and serving papers cost me about $80, I’m doing this more because of interest in how it will play out, with of course the belief that i am owed this money from the guy (or his insurance) that rear-ended my just purchased car at 35 mph. I will update again once court completed.
Two questions:

1. How will you prove you had a loss, when you only have a paper loss rather than a actual loss

2. Did you sign any paperwork releasing the other party from future claims?

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:16 pm

miamivice wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:17 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:00 pm
PluckyDucky wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:10 pm
Why would his insurance do that?

Op needs to sue. Insurance companies hate paying DV claims.

Op, contact an attorney in your state to help you.
Because he pays his insurance company to be his advocate. He could very well file a finished value claim against his own carrier under his UM protection, therefore it is in their interest to try and recover from the other carrier.
He cannot file diminished value against his own insurance, even uninsured / underinsured accidents. His own insurance will not pay him diminished value under any circumstances.
While it is a state by state basis for many things insurance, and that may be true in your state, I can tell you that’s simply not true everywhere. You absolutely can file diminished value against UM in New Jersey.

You can look up in your state here

https://www.expertappraisalgroup.com/di ... ew-jersey/

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Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:06 pm

miamivice wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:18 pm
Boston Barry wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:50 pm
Thanks for everyone who replied. Update: I just filed in small claims court after insurance company refused payment. I obtained a certified expert appraisal of pre-and post accident value, and this person estimated diminished value of just under $4000. That is what I filed to recover in small claims court. Court date in May. Appraisal cost me $300 and filing and serving papers cost me about $80, I’m doing this more because of interest in how it will play out, with of course the belief that i am owed this money from the guy (or his insurance) that rear-ended my just purchased car at 35 mph. I will update again once court completed.
Two questions:

1. How will you prove you had a loss, when you only have a paper loss rather than a actual loss

2. Did you sign any paperwork releasing the other party from future claims?
Regarding question (1) above, I will go before a magistrate / judge using the certified expert appraiser’s valuations pre and post accident. I may not be able to prove it

Regarding (2), no I did not sign any paperwork. His insurance company sent me a check and on the stub it claims that this satisfies all claims or something like that. But I did not cash it yet and responded to their email regarding refusal to pay diminished value that I would be asking to collect directlt from their client. I hope that works, but maybe I didn’t proceed correctly.

phxjcc
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by phxjcc » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:43 am

Farmers and their sub prime carrier had a class settlement against them: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-set ... ettlement/

Good luck.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by erictiger » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:32 am

Please keep us informed. I have similar issue with State Farm regarding this and was thinking to file small claim too. My 2018 Highlander was hit by a driver insured by State Farm. They paid $13000 to fix the car but denied my claim regarding diminishing value. They did not say they would not pay diminishing value claim but kept saying I didn’t document the value prior to the hit.

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flossy21
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by flossy21 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:12 pm

Last summer, another driver backed into my wife's 2017 BMW and did about $3,400 worth of damage. This was in a parking lot and it was a low speed accident. My wife's car had never been in a previous accident. The other driver admitted fault and her insurance company paid to fix my wife's car. The at fault driver's insurance company is State Farm. I filed a diminished value claim myself with State Farm and it was denied...twice.

I went to an online site (PM me if you want the name) and filled out their online form. They hooked me up with a legal firm in PA (also PM me if you want the name). The legal firm filed a DV claim against State Farm and negotiated with the adjuster. The legal firm was able to get a $2,500 DV settlement. The legal firm kept 30% of the settlement and cut us a check for 70%. We were required to sign a release form saying we would not pursue further damages against State Farm for the accident.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Unicorn1 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:40 pm

I recently went through a rather painful DV experience. I was rear-ended and the repair estimate was approx. $1,500; vehicle value at the time was approx. $50,000. The at-fault party's insurance company (SF) paid for the repair. I also filed a DV claim since the car now had a damage report on the CarFax. Long story short, the process was:

1) I filed a DV claim. For this, I pulled comps for cars like mine a) with no previous damage, and b) with previous minor damage on the CarFax. The difference in average values was $5,400 and therefore I filed a DV claim for this amount.

2) Insurance company offered me $1,000 to settle, which I refused.

3) I was then told that I would need to get a DV estimate from an independent car appraiser, which I did. DV estimate from appraiser was $5,000. Justification for DV was based on similar method that I used, pulling comps.

4) Insurance company then hired an appraiser. Their appraiser came up with a DV estimate of $1,500. Their justification was based on 17C formula.

5) Insurance company offered me $1,500 to settle, which I refused.

6) Because of the large difference between the 2 DV estimates, the case was then referred to an independent umpire whose DV estimate would be final. The umpire DV was $5,000.

7) The insurance company delayed for literally months, requiring me to jump through numerous administrative hoops.

8) Finally, I was paid $5,000 for DV.

If I had it to do again, I would have stopped at step 2, filing for DV and accepting their $1,000 offer. Steps 3-8 were not worth it to me. Even though I made an extra $4,000 from the deal, I spent at least 50 hours of my time on this matter, paid for 2 appraisals plus other fees totaling about $1,000, and the entire process took nearly a year from top to bottom which took a mental toll since I always had to be the one taking the initiative and moving things forward. Also, there was uncertainty throughout the entire process re: whether the insurance company would even pay DV and what DV estimate the umpire would come up with (which very well could have been $1,500 instead of $5,000).

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:40 pm

My experience was pretty simple. Car was hit, did about $5000 in damage. Diminished value sat with the DV department for a few months. They finally offered about $2000. I said, well, I don't want to sue the insured, but I think that number is a bit low. We just had a newborn and I'm pretty exhausted right now taking care of the newborn. How about $2,500.

To that, the adjuster said, "congratulations on the newborn! We definitely can do $2,500." And with that, we received the check with included a release of some type.

I was happy with the $2,500. We didn't have to pay for any appraisals or file litigation, and the negotiations were very simple and straight forward. The big thing for us is that we had no plans to sell the car. Today it has 150,000 miles on it and the diminished value due to the accident is probably close to $0, so we came out way ahead by collecting $2,500 back then.

Diminished value is probably the biggest legal insurance fraud out there. Folks are getting compensated for paper losses when their real loss is much less. It's akin to suing a company because their stock goes down on Tuesday, only to have the losses wiped out on Wednesday.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:14 pm

miamivice wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:18 pm
1. How will you prove you had a loss, when you only have a paper loss rather than a actual loss
It's not a paper loss. It's a real loss due to the reduction in value of the vehicle due to repairs.
Play Gloria!

miamivice
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:25 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:14 pm
miamivice wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:18 pm
1. How will you prove you had a loss, when you only have a paper loss rather than a actual loss
It's not a paper loss. It's a real loss due to the reduction in value of the vehicle due to repairs.
It is a paper loss at the moment. It only becomes a real loss if you sell.

The actual loss you suffer due to diminished value depends on how long you keep the car. If you keep your car for 250,000 miles, you may not realize a real loss due to diminished value.

PluckyDucky
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by PluckyDucky » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:28 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:00 pm
PluckyDucky wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:10 pm
Why would his insurance do that?

Op needs to sue. Insurance companies hate paying DV claims.

Op, contact an attorney in your state to help you.
Because he pays his insurance company to be his advocate. He could very well file a finished value claim against his own carrier under his UM protection, therefore it is in their interest to try and recover from the other carrier.
Insurance companies are not advocates for their insureds. First party insurance will pay according to the contract and subrogate. They do not "advocate" on the insured's behalf.

If you want an advocate, get an attorney.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:31 pm

miamivice wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:25 pm
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:14 pm
miamivice wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:18 pm
1. How will you prove you had a loss, when you only have a paper loss rather than a actual loss
It's not a paper loss. It's a real loss due to the reduction in value of the vehicle due to repairs.
It is a paper loss at the moment. It only becomes a real loss if you sell.
Completely wrong. Just like if you dent my car, it's not a paper loss until I get fixed. It's a real loss. When you go to sell the car in a few years and get less for it that you should, there's no way to go back and get paid then. The only way to do it is based on the value at the time of the incident.
Play Gloria!

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by miamivice » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:05 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:31 pm
miamivice wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:25 pm
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:14 pm
miamivice wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:18 pm
1. How will you prove you had a loss, when you only have a paper loss rather than a actual loss
It's not a paper loss. It's a real loss due to the reduction in value of the vehicle due to repairs.
It is a paper loss at the moment. It only becomes a real loss if you sell.
Completely wrong. Just like if you dent my car, it's not a paper loss until I get fixed. It's a real loss. When you go to sell the car in a few years and get less for it that you should, there's no way to go back and get paid then. The only way to do it is based on the value at the time of the incident.
I guess you can have whatever opinion you want, but from an accounting standpoint your opinion is not correct. From an accounting standpoint, it is a paper loss because the loss is only on paper, it becomes a real loss when the vehicle is sold. For many, they may not actually suffer a loss at all if they keep the car for long enough.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:26 pm

miamivice wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:05 pm
I guess you can have whatever opinion you want, but from an accounting standpoint your opinion is not correct. From an accounting standpoint, it is a paper loss because the loss is only on paper, it becomes a real loss when the vehicle is sold. For many, they may not actually suffer a loss at all if they keep the car for long enough.
Ok, here. I buy a new 30k car and drive it off the lot. You run a light and wreck it. Total loss. Is it just a paper loss? If I only buy a 10k used car to replace it, does that mean you don't have to pay the rest of that "paper" loss? What if I decide to only use Uber from now on? You owe nothing?

You damage something, you owe full restititution. You can't do that by merely repairing the car because of the value lost due to resale price AT THE TIME can't be made whole in any way except by paying that difference.
Play Gloria!

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Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:32 pm

Update from OP: the at-fault car owner’s insurance company must have gotten an earful from their client after I filed a small claims suit. A couple of days ago I received an email from the insurance company: “Hello, we acknowledge your small claims suit in which you are claiming a loss of value to your 2017 BMW as a result of the accident. Your complaint mentions you have an evaluation by a certified appraiser reflecting a loss in value of $4,000. Can you please forward this report to me and I would be happy to consider this new information?”

Should I respond? Share the certified appraiser’s report? Do nothing and wait to see if they make an offer to settle? Go to small claims court (date is two weeks away)? Any advice greatly appreciated!!

BB

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Mimmz » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:49 pm

I included my pre/post appraisal report in full as an exhibit when I filed in small claims court. I assumed it would need to be provided for review if I wanted it accepted into evidence, and I felt it was strong evidence as to why what I was asking for was compensatory and not punitive. I also had references to case law supporting the right to claim diminished value in my state.

We settled out of court for the valuation differential, and I agreed to eat the costs of the appraisal and filing. I did also sign an agreement relinquishing any future claims at that point. YMMV

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Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:54 pm

Mimmz wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:49 pm
I included my pre/post appraisal report in full as an exhibit when I filed in small claims court. I assumed it would need to be provided for review if I wanted it accepted into evidence, and I felt it was strong evidence as to why what I was asking for was compensatory and not punitive. I also had references to case law supporting the right to claim diminished value in my state.

We settled out of court for the valuation differential, and I agreed to eat the costs of the appraisal and filing. I did also sign an agreement relinquishing any future claims at that point. YMMV
I didn’t realize I could / ?should file evidence ahead of the day of trial. I guess what I am nervous about is that I will be giving the defendant an advantage by showing the appraisal ahead of time. But if by seeing the certified appraisal, a settlement could be offered, it could be worthwhile. Any lawyers with an opinion?

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8foot7
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:20 am

I see no issue in providing them with the appraisal you’re using as a basis for the demand. You will have to eventually and ifnyt can advance settlement talks, that’s all to the good

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Boston Barry
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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Boston Barry » Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 pm

OP here. Update: had small claims court date late last week, the defendant (driver of other car) failed to show and I won judgment for my appraiser’s diminished value estimate plus court costs and cost of appraisal.

I emailed a copy of the judgment to his insurance company. So far no response. If they do not pay out the judgment, I imagine it may be very hard to collect. I do not know whether the defendant has a job or any money at all in a bank account. I would have to send him a notice through the court to provide bank account information or job information, then money may be garnished. If he refuses to provide this information then he could be held in contempt of court and could be arrested.

But I read online somewhere that the insurance company is obligated to pay this judgement. Anyone know if that is correct?

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by 8foot7 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:37 am

Boston Barry wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 pm
OP here. Update: had small claims court date late last week, the defendant (driver of other car) failed to show and I won judgment for my appraiser’s diminished value estimate plus court costs and cost of appraisal.

I emailed a copy of the judgment to his insurance company. So far no response. If they do not pay out the judgment, I imagine it may be very hard to collect. I do not know whether the defendant has a job or any money at all in a bank account. I would have to send him a notice through the court to provide bank account information or job information, then money may be garnished. If he refuses to provide this information then he could be held in contempt of court and could be arrested.

But I read online somewhere that the insurance company is obligated to pay this judgement. Anyone know if that is correct?
I don't know that they are obligated and I suspect it would be depend on the state and the policy. But the defendant is an idiot if he doesn't force his insurance to pay; that's what it's for, unless he's already exhausted it or wasn't paying the premium or whatever else might be a suitable defense. I would not hesitate to garnish wages and/or levy bank accounts. Defendant always has the option of paying you cash, and he had the option to show up to defend himself or cause his insurer to do the same. Them's the breaks.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by PluckyDucky » Wed May 15, 2019 12:48 pm

Boston Barry wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 pm
OP here. Update: had small claims court date late last week, the defendant (driver of other car) failed to show and I won judgment for my appraiser’s diminished value estimate plus court costs and cost of appraisal.

I emailed a copy of the judgment to his insurance company. So far no response. If they do not pay out the judgment, I imagine it may be very hard to collect. I do not know whether the defendant has a job or any money at all in a bank account. I would have to send him a notice through the court to provide bank account information or job information, then money may be garnished. If he refuses to provide this information then he could be held in contempt of court and could be arrested.

But I read online somewhere that the insurance company is obligated to pay this judgement. Anyone know if that is correct?
Don't know what state you're in, but you could try garnishing the insurance company. Whether you can do this probably depends on your state. I can do it in mine.
Last edited by PluckyDucky on Wed May 15, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help! At Fault’s Insurance Company Refusing to Pay Diminished Value

Post by Lee_WSP » Wed May 15, 2019 4:17 pm

Boston Barry wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 pm
But I read online somewhere that the insurance company is obligated to pay this judgement. Anyone know if that is correct?
That is a state & fact/circumstances specific issue and you would need to talk with an expert (ie an attorney) who deals with that particular issue. But I'm very surprised they failed to indemnify the other party. Maybe they didn't even know the suit was happening. Who knows.

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