My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:59 pm

JPH wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:31 pm
CULater wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:43 pm
It's official folks: the fix don't fix nuttin'
Pretty soon I'll need to get another oil change and send an oil sample into Oil Analyzers to document high fuel in oil once again.
That's what I'm doing too. It costs me a bit but I'm sending a sample for analysis before each oil change to document that the problem is ongoing. My state lemon law says I have to give them 4 attempts to fix it. So far they have not made any attempt to do anything.
Not sure if or how Lemon Law works for something like this. Would need a LL lawyer to pursue it, I think. I'm documenting it just in case there's a class action lawsuit coming along, so I can participate in the $5 award. My solution to this problem is to just drive it until I'm able to identify a replacement vehicle. Not able to deal with this now, and anyway some of the contenders are new models and I'll NEVER buy another car until there's been time to see what pops up on Carcomplaints and elsewhere. If I'd done that this time I NEVER would have bought this one, and I hope nobody I know does either. But I've been a Honda owner since 1986, so I figured "what could go wrong -- it's a Honda." Now I know.
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Michael Patrick
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Michael Patrick » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:13 am

Yeah, that's where I was - stuck between a car with an engine that would slowly destroy itself over time and a lemon law that didn't help in a situation like this. Thankfully I was able to bail without taking too big of a financial hit. Hopefully others will be able to figure a way out.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:45 am

Michael Patrick wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:13 am
Yeah, that's where I was - stuck between a car with an engine that would slowly destroy itself over time and a lemon law that didn't help in a situation like this. Thankfully I was able to bail without taking too big of a financial hit. Hopefully others will be able to figure a way out.
Why do you say the lemon law would not help? I have no experience with it, but in my state (Texas) the government can force the manufacturer to repair the defect or force them to buy back the vehicle. When I spoke with someone in that office by phone they made it sound like a straightforward process. What might I be missing?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Michael Patrick » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:09 am

JPH wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:45 am
Michael Patrick wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:13 am
Yeah, that's where I was - stuck between a car with an engine that would slowly destroy itself over time and a lemon law that didn't help in a situation like this. Thankfully I was able to bail without taking too big of a financial hit. Hopefully others will be able to figure a way out.
Why do you say the lemon law would not help? I have no experience with it, but in my state (Texas) the government can force the manufacturer to repair the defect or force them to buy back the vehicle. When I spoke with someone in that office by phone they made it sound like a straightforward process. What might I be missing?
The definition of a lemon in Wisconsin is:
*the manufacturer had made four attempts at fixing the problem, or
*the car has been out of service for 30 days or more.

Neither of those statements was true in my case. They made two attempts (replace the fuel injectors, and "the fix") and it was never really out of service.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by JPH » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:40 am

Michael Patrick wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:09 am
JPH wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:45 am
Michael Patrick wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:13 am
Yeah, that's where I was - stuck between a car with an engine that would slowly destroy itself over time and a lemon law that didn't help in a situation like this. Thankfully I was able to bail without taking too big of a financial hit. Hopefully others will be able to figure a way out.
Why do you say the lemon law would not help?
The definition of a lemon in Wisconsin is:
*the manufacturer had made four attempts at fixing the problem, or
*the car has been out of service for 30 days or more.

Neither of those statements was true in my case. They made two attempts (replace the fuel injectors, and "the fix") and it was never really out of service.
I have not read the actual law. The Lemon Law Handbook issued by the state says:
You pass the four-times test if you have taken the vehicle to a dealership for repairs:
• two times for the same problem or defect within the first 12 months or 12,000
miles, whichever comes first, and
• twice more during the 12 months or 12,000 miles following the first repair
attempt and
• the problem is still not repaired.
I have REQUESTED a fix each time I have taken it to the dealer for an oil change. They have made zero ATTEMPTS to fix the problem. They shouldn't be able to avoid responsibility simply by refusing to try. We shall see.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:11 pm

JPH wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:40 am
Michael Patrick wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:09 am
JPH wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:45 am
Michael Patrick wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:13 am
Yeah, that's where I was - stuck between a car with an engine that would slowly destroy itself over time and a lemon law that didn't help in a situation like this. Thankfully I was able to bail without taking too big of a financial hit. Hopefully others will be able to figure a way out.
Why do you say the lemon law would not help?
The definition of a lemon in Wisconsin is:
*the manufacturer had made four attempts at fixing the problem, or
*the car has been out of service for 30 days or more.

Neither of those statements was true in my case. They made two attempts (replace the fuel injectors, and "the fix") and it was never really out of service.
I have not read the actual law. The Lemon Law Handbook issued by the state says:
You pass the four-times test if you have taken the vehicle to a dealership for repairs:
• two times for the same problem or defect within the first 12 months or 12,000
miles, whichever comes first, and
• twice more during the 12 months or 12,000 miles following the first repair
attempt and
• the problem is still not repaired.
I have REQUESTED a fix each time I have taken it to the dealer for an oil change. They have made zero ATTEMPTS to fix the problem. They shouldn't be able to avoid responsibility simply by refusing to try. We shall see.
"I have REQUESTED a fix each time I have taken it to the dealer for an oil change"
Nothing has broken, your vehicle has been working and available for use each time you wanted to use it.
Your oil level increases but has not affected the use of your CRV.
The handbook indicates that the owner should check fluid levels and adjust at the stated intervals.

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teacher
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by teacher » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:24 am

Many CR-V owners were also alarmed to learn that Honda recalled 380,000 CR-Vs and Civics in China in February (2018) after similar troubles were reported there. And they were frustrated that Honda wasn’t taking similar steps in this country.
Why No Safety Recall in the U.S.?
Honda told NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) that while its action in China was technically called a “safety recall,” that was simply because of that country’s different regulatory structure.....Now, after owner complaints dating back to early 2017 and after repeated questions from Consumer Reports, Honda said in a statement that it is working on a fix. “Honda has been investigating the situation and developing a remedy, which we hope to make available through authorized Honda dealers by mid-November 2018,” company spokesman Chris Martin said. The repair will be covered by the warranty, Martin said, and will also be applied to 2019 model-year CR-Vs before the 2019s go on sale.....[Honda] failed to clarify how or if engines sold in China differ from those sold in the U.S. But Honda did say that it does not believe that the problem affects the safe operation of the vehicle or that it violates any U.S laws or regulations. And Honda told NHTSA that it would probably fix the problem through a “product update campaign” or a warranty extension.....Honda may want to avoid calling it a safety issue in part because of cost: In the U.S., problems covered by safety recalls must be fixed free of charge and companies must notify all known owners about the need for repairs, says CR’s Friedman, the former NHTSA administrator. NHTSA also gets a say in how many vehicles need to be covered and whether the company’s recall efforts are sufficient.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rep ... a7f316ffda

Honda said they would address a fix for all 2017 and 2018 Honda CR-Vs with 1.5-liter turbo engines in northern states: Maine, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin in December 2018. Those cars in Alaska, Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont will receive the fix two months later. No word when, if ever, owners in warm weather states will receive the fix. The Honda spokesman said, "Owners in any of the noncovered states who believe they’re experiencing the problem can take their vehicle to an authorized Honda dealership for diagnosis. Dealer technicians can work with Honda’s technical assistance hotline to help determine if there is a problem, and any necessary repairs can be addressed under the limited warranty."
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rep ... out-plans/

Read the rest of the articles The first one includes a detailed list for What Honda, and Owners, Should Do Now. We were thinking about replacing one of our three Hondas with the new Honda Insight hybrid. It may be a great car with no engine issues, but Honda's cavalier attitude about what is certainly a safety issue, has us rethinking purchasing another Honda, ever.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:37 am

Read the rest of the articles The first one includes a detailed list for What Honda, and Owners, Should Do Now. We were thinking about replacing one of our three Hondas with the new Honda Insight hybrid. It may be a great car with no engine issues, but Honda's cavalier attitude about what is certainly a safety issue, has us rethinking purchasing another Honda, ever.
One of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with this issue has been the failure of anyone to take responsibility and offer the semblance of effort to address owner concerns. This has gone on for a year. I've seen three different dealers in different parts of the country and every time they passed the buck to Honda corporate. They all purported to know nothing about the issue and could do nothing because they hadn't received marching orders from Honda. But when I contacted Honda and opened a customer complaint case with them, all I ever got was being told to contact my dealer to seek remediation - they could do nothing except make a note of my concerns. The way the buck has been passed with the poor owner in the middle has been a complete disgrace. They are not standing behind the brand and don't deserve your business, IMO.
On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by jpohio » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:52 am

From the Consumer Reports October 2018 article:
"Honda says the repair—which will be free to owners—will include new software for the engine and transmission control units, an oil change, and in come cases, a replacement air-conditioning control unit. The company says engines in 2019 CR-Vs will be repaired before they go on the market."

I have a 2018 CRV in Florida, received notification from Honda last December about the software upgrade and AC control unit replacement. The notification did not connect the software upgrade and AC unit replacement with the oil dilution problem. Had the work done in January (no charge), asked the local Honda service person about the oil dilution problem and was told it mainly applied to European models! Wow.

I have owned the CRV for just over a year, never have had any symptoms of the oil dilution problem so far. Curious that CR seems to tie the software upgrade and AC control until replacement to the oil dilution problem, indicates that northern states will get it first.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by core4portfolio » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:09 am

jpohio wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:52 am
From the Consumer Reports October 2018 article:
"Honda says the repair—which will be free to owners—will include new software for the engine and transmission control units, an oil change, and in come cases, a replacement air-conditioning control unit. The company says engines in 2019 CR-Vs will be repaired before they go on the market."

I have a 2018 CRV in Florida, received notification from Honda last December about the software upgrade and AC control unit replacement. The notification did not connect the software upgrade and AC unit replacement with the oil dilution problem. Had the work done in January (no charge), asked the local Honda service person about the oil dilution problem and was told it mainly applied to European models! Wow.

I have owned the CRV for just over a year, never have had any symptoms of the oil dilution problem so far. Curious that CR seems to tie the software upgrade and AC control until replacement to the oil dilution problem, indicates that northern states will get it first.
When you took the oil disptick and see the oil level / smell it then you might know if you have oil dilution or not.
If not then you are good.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:58 am

CULater wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:37 am
Read the rest of the articles The first one includes a detailed list for What Honda, and Owners, Should Do Now. We were thinking about replacing one of our three Hondas with the new Honda Insight hybrid. It may be a great car with no engine issues, but Honda's cavalier attitude about what is certainly a safety issue, has us rethinking purchasing another Honda, ever.
One of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with this issue has been the failure of anyone to take responsibility and offer the semblance of effort to address owner concerns. This has gone on for a year. I've seen three different dealers in different parts of the country and every time they passed the buck to Honda corporate. They all purported to know nothing about the issue and could do nothing because they hadn't received marching orders from Honda. But when I contacted Honda and opened a customer complaint case with them, all I ever got was being told to contact my dealer to seek remediation - they could do nothing except make a note of my concerns. The way the buck has been passed with the poor owner in the middle has been a complete disgrace. They are not standing behind the brand and don't deserve your business, IMO.
"They are not standing behind the brand and don't deserve your business, IMO."
Of course I think that Honda should step up and do the right thing here....

With that said may I ask which auto/truck brand(s) has not had their own episodes like this or worse?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:16 pm

Let me urge you once again to check the following link at Consumer Reports for the growing number of reports regarding the CRV oil dilution issue. Read through some of the reports, many of which are very detailed recounts of owner experiences with this issue. Much more descriptive and graphic than anything I've posted on this thread. After reading a few and putting yourself in the shoes of some of these owners, I don't think you'll be shopping for one. And you'll be wondering just why in the heck Honda is ignoring this issue while claiming it is "normal."

https://www.consumerreports.org/stories ... naireId=69
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notinuse
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by notinuse » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:21 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:58 am
CULater wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:37 am
Read the rest of the articles The first one includes a detailed list for What Honda, and Owners, Should Do Now. We were thinking about replacing one of our three Hondas with the new Honda Insight hybrid. It may be a great car with no engine issues, but Honda's cavalier attitude about what is certainly a safety issue, has us rethinking purchasing another Honda, ever.
One of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with this issue has been the failure of anyone to take responsibility and offer the semblance of effort to address owner concerns. This has gone on for a year. I've seen three different dealers in different parts of the country and every time they passed the buck to Honda corporate. They all purported to know nothing about the issue and could do nothing because they hadn't received marching orders from Honda. But when I contacted Honda and opened a customer complaint case with them, all I ever got was being told to contact my dealer to seek remediation - they could do nothing except make a note of my concerns. The way the buck has been passed with the poor owner in the middle has been a complete disgrace. They are not standing behind the brand and don't deserve your business, IMO.
"They are not standing behind the brand and don't deserve your business, IMO."
Of course I think that Honda should step up and do the right thing here....

With that said may I ask which auto/truck brand(s) has not had their own episodes like this or worse?
Zero, to a very good approximation.

smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:56 pm

notinuse wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:21 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:58 am
CULater wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:37 am
Read the rest of the articles The first one includes a detailed list for What Honda, and Owners, Should Do Now. We were thinking about replacing one of our three Hondas with the new Honda Insight hybrid. It may be a great car with no engine issues, but Honda's cavalier attitude about what is certainly a safety issue, has us rethinking purchasing another Honda, ever.
One of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with this issue has been the failure of anyone to take responsibility and offer the semblance of effort to address owner concerns. This has gone on for a year. I've seen three different dealers in different parts of the country and every time they passed the buck to Honda corporate. They all purported to know nothing about the issue and could do nothing because they hadn't received marching orders from Honda. But when I contacted Honda and opened a customer complaint case with them, all I ever got was being told to contact my dealer to seek remediation - they could do nothing except make a note of my concerns. The way the buck has been passed with the poor owner in the middle has been a complete disgrace. They are not standing behind the brand and don't deserve your business, IMO.
"They are not standing behind the brand and don't deserve your business, IMO."
Of course I think that Honda should step up and do the right thing here....

With that said may I ask which auto/truck brand(s) has not had their own episodes like this or worse?
Zero, to a very good approximation.
Yes - agreed, only most all the rest are worse situations.

COKyle
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by COKyle » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm

Sorry for your experience. Guess I’m lucky. I have a 2017 CR-V EX-L AWD with the 1.5, purchased in Feb 2017 and have not had a single issue with the vehicle other than the center console not fully dimming correctly at night (fixed w/ a quick facory reset). We are a single car house so my wife and I share and drive it often all over Colorado. Has almost 30k on it. I’ll ask about this next time I’m at the dealer for regular oil change though.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by epoxyresin » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:47 pm

dknightd wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:53 pm
CULater wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:43 am

I'm not the authority, but my experience with Hondas is similar to yours in many respects. I traded a 2002 CRV with about 200K on the 2017 CRV and it was still in excellent running condition. I also planned on driving this one for 15 years.

Here's what I'm doing now. I check my oil level almost daily. I take photos of the oil level on the dipstick to document increasing fluid level above the full mark. I change my oil at least every 3000 miles and spend $35 a pop to send an oil sample into Oil Analyzers each time to monitor fuel dilution and engine wear indications. I hope to drive this nuisance for awhile longer while I shop for a replacement such as the 2019 RAV4. I will be getting rid of it well before the 5-year 60K engine and powertrain warranty expires. I wouldn't dream of keeping this thing beyond that period because it is just common sense that you can't drive an engine around with the oil full of gas and not experience premature engine damage.
Oil testing every oil change is probably a waste of money. Are they reporting engine abnormal engine wear? If you were a glutton for punishment you could try to blow the engine up. Then get a new engine. I doubt you could do it before their warentee expired if you let Honda keep maintaining it. A little gas in the oil does not mean the car will die soon. It could last for 15 more years.
That's what gets me about all of this. Like, realistically, how much is this shortening the lifetime of the car? I guess we won't know for 20 years, but I would bet a fair amount of money at even odds that the average lifetime of these cars aren't dramatically different from other similar vehicles without the problem.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:21 pm

That's what gets me about all of this. Like, realistically, how much is this shortening the lifetime of the car? I guess we won't know for 20 years, but I would bet a fair amount of money at even odds that the average lifetime of these cars aren't dramatically different from other similar vehicles without the problem.
It always pays to google - sometimes you can learn something that way. For example:
Reduced oil viscosity interferes with formation of a durable lubricating film, inviting wear. Combustion zone parts are especially prone to wear, including the piston, rings and liner. Reduced viscosity also negatively affects the oil’s ability to function as a hydraulic fluid, which is critical in engines with variable valve timing.
- Fuel can wash oil from the cylinder wall, causing higher rates of ring, piston and cylinder wear.
- Reduced effectiveness of detergency additives limits the oil’s ability to guard against deposits.
- Increased oil volatility results in higher oil consumption, requiring more frequent top-offs.
- Accelerated oxidation reduces the oil’s service life and requires more frequent oil changes.
http://oil-synthetic.com/2017/02/22/fue ... an-engine/

That's probably why my OilAnalyzer's report describes fuel dilution over 5% as "severe," which is what my reports have indicated. Based on the oil level on the dipstick above the full mark, I've estimated that fuel dilution has been 10% - 15%. In this case, it becomes important to monitor evidence of excessive engine wear with periodic engine oil analyses. I don't think it will take 20 years to reveal the obvious.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:41 pm

CULater wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:21 pm
That's what gets me about all of this. Like, realistically, how much is this shortening the lifetime of the car? I guess we won't know for 20 years, but I would bet a fair amount of money at even odds that the average lifetime of these cars aren't dramatically different from other similar vehicles without the problem.
It always pays to google - sometimes you can learn something that way. For example:
Reduced oil viscosity interferes with formation of a durable lubricating film, inviting wear. Combustion zone parts are especially prone to wear, including the piston, rings and liner. Reduced viscosity also negatively affects the oil’s ability to function as a hydraulic fluid, which is critical in engines with variable valve timing.
- Fuel can wash oil from the cylinder wall, causing higher rates of ring, piston and cylinder wear.
- Reduced effectiveness of detergency additives limits the oil’s ability to guard against deposits.
- Increased oil volatility results in higher oil consumption, requiring more frequent top-offs.
- Accelerated oxidation reduces the oil’s service life and requires more frequent oil changes.
http://oil-synthetic.com/2017/02/22/fue ... an-engine/

That's probably why my OilAnalyzer's report describes fuel dilution over 5% as "severe," which is what my reports have indicated. Based on the oil level on the dipstick above the full mark, I've estimated that fuel dilution has been 10% - 15%. In this case, it becomes important to monitor evidence of excessive engine wear with periodic engine oil analyses. I don't think it will take 20 years to reveal the obvious.
What other contaminants do the oil analysis indicate? What are the heavy metals content?

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by markcoop » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:51 pm

I was thinking at looking at a 2019 Honda Civic? Anyone know if this problem affects 2019s?
Mark

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Winston19 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:21 am

markcoop wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:51 pm
I was thinking at looking at a 2019 Honda Civic? Anyone know if this problem affects 2019s?
I don't know if it does but the civic has the same engine as the CRV.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by teacher » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:40 am

According to Consumer Reports, Honda company spokesman said, the repair (of current models) will be covered by the warranty, and will also be applied to 2019 model-year CR-Vs before the 2019s go on sale. I think the Civic and CR-Vs have the same engine). Without understanding how the fix is achieved, I would prefer the engine is built right initially, rather than “fixed”. Don’t want a jury-rigged engine.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:08 am

Fewer complaints about oil dilution with the Civic engine, but they're there for the 2016, 2017, and 2018. Same engine, same problem. No word that Honda has applied the "fix" that doesn't work to U.S. vehicles. I wouldn't touch it unless Honda starts putting a re-designed engine into the vehicle.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Civ ... _gas.shtml
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smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:28 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:41 pm
CULater wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:21 pm
That's what gets me about all of this. Like, realistically, how much is this shortening the lifetime of the car? I guess we won't know for 20 years, but I would bet a fair amount of money at even odds that the average lifetime of these cars aren't dramatically different from other similar vehicles without the problem.
It always pays to google - sometimes you can learn something that way. For example:
Reduced oil viscosity interferes with formation of a durable lubricating film, inviting wear. Combustion zone parts are especially prone to wear, including the piston, rings and liner. Reduced viscosity also negatively affects the oil’s ability to function as a hydraulic fluid, which is critical in engines with variable valve timing.
- Fuel can wash oil from the cylinder wall, causing higher rates of ring, piston and cylinder wear.
- Reduced effectiveness of detergency additives limits the oil’s ability to guard against deposits.
- Increased oil volatility results in higher oil consumption, requiring more frequent top-offs.
- Accelerated oxidation reduces the oil’s service life and requires more frequent oil changes.
http://oil-synthetic.com/2017/02/22/fue ... an-engine/

That's probably why my OilAnalyzer's report describes fuel dilution over 5% as "severe," which is what my reports have indicated. Based on the oil level on the dipstick above the full mark, I've estimated that fuel dilution has been 10% - 15%. In this case, it becomes important to monitor evidence of excessive engine wear with periodic engine oil analyses. I don't think it will take 20 years to reveal the obvious.
What other contaminants do the oil analysis indicate? What are the heavy metals content?
What were the levels of iron, chrome, aluminum, and molybdenum ?

sambb
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by sambb » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:32 am

or one could just sell the car and start with a different model

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by zaplunken » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:00 pm

teacher wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:40 am
According to Consumer Reports, Honda company spokesman said, the repair (of current models) will be covered by the warranty, and will also be applied to 2019 model-year CR-Vs before the 2019s go on sale. I think the Civic and CR-Vs have the same engine). Without understanding how the fix is achieved, I would prefer the engine is built right initially, rather than “fixed”. Don’t want a jury-rigged engine.
Yeah and oh la de da, what about any damage already done? I've owned 4 Hondas since 1987 but I won't buy another after seeing how they behaved.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by OldBallCoach » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm

So I got an oil sample done and my son said our fuel dilution level was off the charts...something like 7%...the wear metals were also way out of whack...the dipstick looks about 1 quart over full and this is AFTER the fix and at a 4000 mile mark for an oil change. I talked with Honda America and they said as long as the car runs and performance is not an issue then there is nothing they will do about it. When I said the oil samples say the engine will not last another 25K or so at most they said well when that happens we will take care of it as long as you can prove your oil changes and its under the power train warranty period. The dealership has been good but their hands are tied, The dealer did offer me high KBB for trade in on another Honda but frankly DW told them to park the car where the sun yields no shadows. So..we went over to the local Toyota dealership and they also offered high KBB for the CRV and DW drove out in a new 4 Runner. The new RAV 4s are nice too but the supply is tight and its a new design and I know for fact that the 4 runner will go 300K easy. So..I have spent WAY TOO MUCH time on a Honda problem, I cut my loses and lost big bucks on the CRV...Honda will not fool me again...We did drive the new Passport but given how Honda is treating folks these days no thank you!

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:48 pm

OldBallCoach wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm
So I got an oil sample done and my son said our fuel dilution level was off the charts...something like 7%...the wear metals were also way out of whack...the dipstick looks about 1 quart over full and this is AFTER the fix and at a 4000 mile mark for an oil change. I talked with Honda America and they said as long as the car runs and performance is not an issue then there is nothing they will do about it. When I said the oil samples say the engine will not last another 25K or so at most they said well when that happens we will take care of it as long as you can prove your oil changes and its under the power train warranty period. The dealership has been good but their hands are tied, The dealer did offer me high KBB for trade in on another Honda but frankly DW told them to park the car where the sun yields no shadows. So..we went over to the local Toyota dealership and they also offered high KBB for the CRV and DW drove out in a new 4 Runner. The new RAV 4s are nice too but the supply is tight and its a new design and I know for fact that the 4 runner will go 300K easy. So..I have spent WAY TOO MUCH time on a Honda problem, I cut my loses and lost big bucks on the CRV...Honda will not fool me again...We did drive the new Passport but given how Honda is treating folks these days no thank you!
Smart move. Way better plan to cut your losses and stop the stress.

Agree this is a huge black eye for Honda. I don't think they actually understand what this is going to do to their reputation with traditionally smart consumers that buy new Honda products.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by munemaker » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:57 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:48 pm
I don't think they actually understand what this is going to do to their reputation with traditionally smart consumers that buy new Honda products.
Maybe yes, maybe no. I read CR-V sales are through the roof. Most people do not check their oil and are clueless. I would be buying one toward the end of this year, but will be going with a Mazda CX-5 or Highlander unless I see some convincing evidence Honda has fixed the problem, which I do not expect.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:35 pm

munemaker wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:57 pm
jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:48 pm
I don't think they actually understand what this is going to do to their reputation with traditionally smart consumers that buy new Honda products.
Maybe yes, maybe no. I read CR-V sales are through the roof. Most people do not check their oil and are clueless. I would be buying one toward the end of this year, but will be going with a Mazda CX-5 or Highlander unless I see some convincing evidence Honda has fixed the problem, which I do not expect.
Typically news and general knowledge of something like this is slow to get out into popular general knowledge. We are still early in the process, once these 2015-2018 Honda CRV turbocharged motors start smoking hard, burning oil, burning out crankshaft bearings, the scale of the problem will be more apparent. Likely that will take another 3-5 years or so.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:43 am

OldBallCoach wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm
So I got an oil sample done and my son said our fuel dilution level was off the charts...something like 7%...the wear metals were also way out of whack...the dipstick looks about 1 quart over full and this is AFTER the fix and at a 4000 mile mark for an oil change. I talked with Honda America and they said as long as the car runs and performance is not an issue then there is nothing they will do about it. When I said the oil samples say the engine will not last another 25K or so at most they said well when that happens we will take care of it as long as you can prove your oil changes and its under the power train warranty period. The dealership has been good but their hands are tied, The dealer did offer me high KBB for trade in on another Honda but frankly DW told them to park the car where the sun yields no shadows. So..we went over to the local Toyota dealership and they also offered high KBB for the CRV and DW drove out in a new 4 Runner. The new RAV 4s are nice too but the supply is tight and its a new design and I know for fact that the 4 runner will go 300K easy. So..I have spent WAY TOO MUCH time on a Honda problem, I cut my loses and lost big bucks on the CRV...Honda will not fool me again...We did drive the new Passport but given how Honda is treating folks these days no thank you!
You have lived my worst nightmare with this vehicle. Sorry for your experience, and I wish more people were aware the the serious flaw in this engine. My research has turned up very few new vehicles that don't have direct-injected engines or direct-injection plus turbo charging. This engine design has real problems with fuel dilution and with carbon buildup on the valves, and Honda's 1.5T engine is the worst of the bunch. Lot of people don't realize that all those wonderful gasoline additives in Top Tier fuel and premium grade fuel are wasted on direct-injected engines because the fuel is not washing over the valves and keeping them clean. Toyota makes a few engines that incorporate port injection to mitigate this problem, such as the 2.5L engine in the RAV4. It's difficult to figure this out when buying a new vehicle.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:06 am

CULater wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:43 am
OldBallCoach wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm
So I got an oil sample done and my son said our fuel dilution level was off the charts...something like 7%...the wear metals were also way out of whack...the dipstick looks about 1 quart over full and this is AFTER the fix and at a 4000 mile mark for an oil change. I talked with Honda America and they said as long as the car runs and performance is not an issue then there is nothing they will do about it. When I said the oil samples say the engine will not last another 25K or so at most they said well when that happens we will take care of it as long as you can prove your oil changes and its under the power train warranty period. The dealership has been good but their hands are tied, The dealer did offer me high KBB for trade in on another Honda but frankly DW told them to park the car where the sun yields no shadows. So..we went over to the local Toyota dealership and they also offered high KBB for the CRV and DW drove out in a new 4 Runner. The new RAV 4s are nice too but the supply is tight and its a new design and I know for fact that the 4 runner will go 300K easy. So..I have spent WAY TOO MUCH time on a Honda problem, I cut my loses and lost big bucks on the CRV...Honda will not fool me again...We did drive the new Passport but given how Honda is treating folks these days no thank you!
You have lived my worst nightmare with this vehicle. Sorry for your experience, and I wish more people were aware the the serious flaw in this engine. My research has turned up very few new vehicles that don't have direct-injected engines or direct-injection plus turbo charging. This engine design has real problems with fuel dilution and with carbon buildup on the valves, and Honda's 1.5T engine is the worst of the bunch. Lot of people don't realize that all those wonderful gasoline additives in Top Tier fuel and premium grade fuel are wasted on direct-injected engines because the fuel is not washing over the valves and keeping them clean. Toyota makes a few engines that incorporate port injection to mitigate this problem, such as the 2.5L engine in the RAV4. It's difficult to figure this out when buying a new vehicle.
Oldballcoach was happy on Jan. 7th of this year with his Honda but concerned about the future.
He planned to wait until the vehicle had 4,000 miles and see what happens with that service.
At 4,000 miles the Honda displayed extra fuel in the oil and he was not happy.
Honda's proposed resolution to the issue was not nearly sufficient in his opinion.
By Feb 18th the Honda is gone and he has a new vehicle that he is very happy with.

IMHO - not really near a worst nightmare - total time concerned about the Honda less than a month. He is done and likely will not spend any additional time or efforts into this past problem.

Bravo Zulu to Oldballcoach

Honda's resolution was not nearly sufficient in his opinion.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by OldBallCoach » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 pm

smitcat wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:06 am
CULater wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:43 am
OldBallCoach wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm
So I got an oil sample done and my son said our fuel dilution level was off the charts...something like 7%...the wear metals were also way out of whack...the dipstick looks about 1 quart over full and this is AFTER the fix and at a 4000 mile mark for an oil change. I talked with Honda America and they said as long as the car runs and performance is not an issue then there is nothing they will do about it. When I said the oil samples say the engine will not last another 25K or so at most they said well when that happens we will take care of it as long as you can prove your oil changes and its under the power train warranty period. The dealership has been good but their hands are tied, The dealer did offer me high KBB for trade in on another Honda but frankly DW told them to park the car where the sun yields no shadows. So..we went over to the local Toyota dealership and they also offered high KBB for the CRV and DW drove out in a new 4 Runner. The new RAV 4s are nice too but the supply is tight and its a new design and I know for fact that the 4 runner will go 300K easy. So..I have spent WAY TOO MUCH time on a Honda problem, I cut my loses and lost big bucks on the CRV...Honda will not fool me again...We did drive the new Passport but given how Honda is treating folks these days no thank you!
You have lived my worst nightmare with this vehicle. Sorry for your experience, and I wish more people were aware the the serious flaw in this engine. My research has turned up very few new vehicles that don't have direct-injected engines or direct-injection plus turbo charging. This engine design has real problems with fuel dilution and with carbon buildup on the valves, and Honda's 1.5T engine is the worst of the bunch. Lot of people don't realize that all those wonderful gasoline additives in Top Tier fuel and premium grade fuel are wasted on direct-injected engines because the fuel is not washing over the valves and keeping them clean. Toyota makes a few engines that incorporate port injection to mitigate this problem, such as the 2.5L engine in the RAV4. It's difficult to figure this out when buying a new vehicle.
Oldballcoach was happy on Jan. 7th of this year with his Honda but concerned about the future.
He planned to wait until the vehicle had 4,000 miles and see what happens with that service.
At 4,000 miles the Honda displayed extra fuel in the oil and he was not happy.
Honda's proposed resolution to the issue was not nearly sufficient in his opinion.
By Feb 18th the Honda is gone and he has a new vehicle that he is very happy with.

IMHO - not really near a worst nightmare - total time concerned about the Honda less than a month. He is done and likely will not spend any additional time or efforts into this past problem.

Bravo Zulu to Oldballcoach

Honda's resolution was not nearly sufficient in his opinion.
I have spent over 2 hours dealing with Honda...to me any problem that two normal sane people cant solve over a tasty cold beverage in five minutes is something serious. This Honda deal is troubling to me in that Honda I thought was right up there with Toyota in quality and caring about their brand. I was wrong..so...now the problem is solved and they will wash that car and sell it to the next customer..in a few years we will read about this train wreck someplace...Too bad, the CRV is a nice little car...on to the next world peace issue..

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dspencer » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:30 pm

OldBallCoach wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 pm

I have spent over 2 hours dealing with Honda...to me any problem that two normal sane people cant solve over a tasty cold beverage in five minutes is something serious. This Honda deal is troubling to me in that Honda I thought was right up there with Toyota in quality and caring about their brand. I was wrong..so...now the problem is solved and they will wash that car and sell it to the next customer..in a few years we will read about this train wreck someplace...Too bad, the CRV is a nice little car...on to the next world peace issue..
Not to speak for others, but I think his comment was just commending you for taking control of the situation and resolving it yourself by getting rid of the vehicle instead of putting yourself through ongoing frustration.

I still have my CR-V. My thought process as to why:

1. I don't currently have any "driveability" issues, just a fear of problems down the road.
2. Despite the problem and comments in this thread, the market demand appears strong for CR-Vs both used and new.
3. It seems clear that for now the only real "solution" is to sell the vehicle. Honda is not going to fix it no matter what I do.
4. If the problem starts to cause severe and widespread problems, #1 and #2 may change, but that might force Honda to change #3 also.

So basically I'm counting on either the issue blowing up and Honda being forced to take more action; or nothing much changes and I'm able to sell the car whenever I feel like it. Nonetheless, I am considering selling much earlier than I otherwise would have because if the problem doesn't manifest for 5-10 years it will be easier for Honda to say it's just normal wear and tear. I also don't want to be out of warranty and on the leading edge of problems manifesting while Honda still denies anything is wrong.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:44 pm

COKyle wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm
Sorry for your experience. Guess I’m lucky. I have a 2017 CR-V EX-L AWD with the 1.5, purchased in Feb 2017 and have not had a single issue with the vehicle other than the center console not fully dimming correctly at night (fixed w/ a quick facory reset). We are a single car house so my wife and I share and drive it often all over Colorado. Has almost 30k on it. I’ll ask about this next time I’m at the dealer for regular oil change though.
Have you pulled the oil dip stick to read the oil level?

If yes, then okey dokey. Your car then appears to not have a problem. If no, then you have no idea whether you've got the issue or not. I'd think at a minimum, I'd know what the powertrain warranty time/mileage is and be ready to buy a Honda extended warranty while you can. I know Subaru ones can only be purchased while the bumper to bumper warranty miles/time is in effect.
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:13 pm

dspencer wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:30 pm
OldBallCoach wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 pm

I have spent over 2 hours dealing with Honda...to me any problem that two normal sane people cant solve over a tasty cold beverage in five minutes is something serious. This Honda deal is troubling to me in that Honda I thought was right up there with Toyota in quality and caring about their brand. I was wrong..so...now the problem is solved and they will wash that car and sell it to the next customer..in a few years we will read about this train wreck someplace...Too bad, the CRV is a nice little car...on to the next world peace issue..
Not to speak for others, but I think his comment was just commending you for taking control of the situation and resolving it yourself by getting rid of the vehicle instead of putting yourself through ongoing frustration.

I still have my CR-V. My thought process as to why:

1. I don't currently have any "driveability" issues, just a fear of problems down the road.
2. Despite the problem and comments in this thread, the market demand appears strong for CR-Vs both used and new.
3. It seems clear that for now the only real "solution" is to sell the vehicle. Honda is not going to fix it no matter what I do.
4. If the problem starts to cause severe and widespread problems, #1 and #2 may change, but that might force Honda to change #3 also.

So basically I'm counting on either the issue blowing up and Honda being forced to take more action; or nothing much changes and I'm able to sell the car whenever I feel like it. Nonetheless, I am considering selling much earlier than I otherwise would have because if the problem doesn't manifest for 5-10 years it will be easier for Honda to say it's just normal wear and tear. I also don't want to be out of warranty and on the leading edge of problems manifesting while Honda still denies anything is wrong.

"Not to speak for others, but I think his comment was just commending you for taking control of the situation and resolving it yourself by getting rid of the vehicle instead of putting yourself through ongoing frustration."
Yes - exactly...tank you
Bravo Zulu is well done - my hat is off to oldballcoach.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:27 pm

Not to speak for others, but I can't imagine having read this thread and dismissing the issue as just a simple, easily resolvable problem. Clearly, people who have owned this vehicle and been victimized by Honda are not waving it off. There is a real cost to someone who owns one of these things and is aware of the problem. The significant financial cost of trading off a new vehicle to replace it because of a major unremedied and unacknowledged defect isn't trivial to most people. Who wins and who loses in that transaction?
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by OldBallCoach » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:45 am

CULater wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:27 pm
Not to speak for others, but I can't imagine having read this thread and dismissing the issue as just a simple, easily resolvable problem. Clearly, people who have owned this vehicle and been victimized by Honda are not waving it off. There is a real cost to someone who owns one of these things and is aware of the problem. The significant financial cost of trading off a new vehicle to replace it because of a major unremedied and unacknowledged defect isn't trivial to most people. Who wins and who loses in that transaction?
I am not disagreeing with you in any way...this Honda cover up cost me about 10 grand hit on a car that was perfectly serviceable for my wife to drive until the issues came...Honda tried to fix it several times and they failed..Honda then changed tunes and said as long as the car runs it is fine...well we all know that is BS and what I did not everyone has the ability to do financially. I lost in this transaction no doubt. I will not buy another Honda period nor will any of my family. I do feel bad for families that Honda is not taking care of what for most people is a very significant purchase. I hope I did not offend anyone with my solution that was NOT my intent.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dsmclone » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:49 am

From my experience with Honda will first try to resolve the issue through an update and if that doesn't work, they will extend the warranty. My sister a 2012? Honda Accord V6 and there is a known issue with it fouling plugs all the time. She has over 100k miles and Honda just replaced her engine for free and she ended up actually saving money on the timing belt replacement that she would have had to pay full price for if it the engine wouldn't have been pulled.

I remember back in the early 2000's they had an issue with Honda/Acura transmissions and they ended up extending the warranty.

The truth is that Honda isn't just going to start replacing all the engines in CRV's. They sell something like 400k of these a year in the U.S. and I'm just going to take a wild guess that less than 5% will actually end up having engine issues because of this problem. All companies have had issues like this crop up in the past and unless the government forces them to do something (VW diesel) they seem to handle it similar. If car companies replaced all engines/transmissions every time there was an issue, no one would be able to afford a car.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by OldBallCoach » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:57 am

Do you think the known issue has lowered the value of your sisters car? Honda would do the same thing for the 3rd owner of the car at 100K? You do make a fair point I will admit.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dsmclone » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 am

OldBallCoach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:57 am
Do you think the known issue has lowered the value of your sisters car? Honda would do the same thing for the 3rd owner of the car at 100K? You do make a fair point I will admit.
She is at least the second owner.

As far as the car value:

The 4cyl (which had no issues) has a trade in value of $7,305. The exact same model/option with the 6cyl has a trade in of $7,836

From her perspective, this has actually worked out pretty well. She is now driving a Honda Accord that has had no other big issues and it's engine is new.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by OldBallCoach » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:37 am

dsmclone wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 am
OldBallCoach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:57 am
Do you think the known issue has lowered the value of your sisters car? Honda would do the same thing for the 3rd owner of the car at 100K? You do make a fair point I will admit.
She is at least the second owner.

As far as the car value:

The 4cyl (which had no issues) has a trade in value of $7,305. The exact same model/option with the 6cyl has a trade in of $7,836

From her perspective, this has actually worked out pretty well. She is now driving a Honda Accord that has had no other big issues and it's engine is new.
That is encouraging to hear. Good for your sister that Honda should now give her lots of miles of service I hope! Just curious did she have to fight Honda much to get them to do the engine replacement? I had a Honda Accord as my staff car and I thought it was a really nice car.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dsmclone » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:59 am

OldBallCoach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:37 am
dsmclone wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 am
OldBallCoach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:57 am
Do you think the known issue has lowered the value of your sisters car? Honda would do the same thing for the 3rd owner of the car at 100K? You do make a fair point I will admit.
She is at least the second owner.

As far as the car value:

The 4cyl (which had no issues) has a trade in value of $7,305. The exact same model/option with the 6cyl has a trade in of $7,836

From her perspective, this has actually worked out pretty well. She is now driving a Honda Accord that has had no other big issues and it's engine is new.
That is encouraging to hear. Good for your sister that Honda should now give her lots of miles of service I hope! Just curious did she have to fight Honda much to get them to do the engine replacement? I had a Honda Accord as my staff car and I thought it was a really nice car.
She was using a non honda mechanic and after the first time she had the spark plug replaced that mechanic looked into it and saw that Honda issued that extended warranty. He told her to take it to Honda and her local Honda dealer fixed it without question. The one issue I will say is that they said "While we have the engine out, it would be a good time to change that timing belt". The price they offered to change the belt was ridiculous so I told her to call them back and they agreed to a lower price.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:41 am

I am a bit confused. Isn't timing belt part of an engine? If we replace an engine, do we keep the old timing belt, pulleys, water pump..., to cut cost? Perhaps keep using the old oil filter too. :)

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by dsmclone » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:21 pm

wasp09 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:41 am
I am a bit confused. Isn't timing belt part of an engine? If we replace an engine, do we keep the old timing belt, pulleys, water pump..., to cut cost? Perhaps keep using the old oil filter too. :)
I think I worded that wrong. Rebuilt the engine.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by OldBallCoach » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:44 am

So Honda fixed the existing engine and did not drop in a new crate motor...and then asks for the upgrade...LOL...on my CRV when they did the recall they changed the oil for free but I had to pay for the oil filter and 16 bucks for them to change the oil filter...I was pissed and they dropped it but yes they did try...

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:33 am

Not as bad as dropping in a new motor for warranty work and charging for an oil change at the same time. :)

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Fahrer » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:54 pm

Well after reading about the issues with the Honda CRV both here and on the internet I decided to add my story too. We purchased a new 2017 Honda CRV with the same 1.5 liter turbo engine. After owning it for a little over 6 months I noticed that the oil on the dipstick was already very dark while only having only 3000 miles on it. I didn't think much more about it at that time but had some concern. I have been changing our vehicles's oil over 50 years so have a good idea what the oil should look like with not many miles. When I noticed at that time how dark the oil was I changed the oil and noticed how extra thin it was when draining. I didn't notice gas smell at that time but smelled gas around the car when colder weather came. A couple of months later a friend sent me an email about the issue of gas in the oil so immediately I went and checked the dipstick to find the oil was quite dark again and this time had a strong smell of gas. I then pursued to do more research and found in China there were already enormous issues with the CRV and gas in the oil and already some cases here in the US (and I think Canada) were being mentioned. Seeing the enormity of the problem and the dealers weren't able to solve the problem we decided to trade it in. I didn't want another vehicle with direct injection or a small engine turbo. We went to the Toyota dealership and purchased a new 2018 Camry Hybrid and couldn't be more satisfied. We now have had the Hybrid almost a year and has only 3500 miles on it but the oil looks still new with absolutely no gas smell. I have a hunch that direct injection is part of the problem but also that the displacement of the engine is so small that in winter the demands on the car's heating system causes the engine to run cooler and doesn't reach and hold the normal operating temperature. Interestingly the Camry Hybrid's engine has both port and direct injection which I think is much better and will also help keep the valve stems freer from carbon. When I traded in the CRV at the Toyota deanship I mentioned how dissatisfied I was with the small turbo and how quick the oil got dark and the salesman mentioned that they trade quite a few CRVs in. Maybe I was foolish not to go back to the Honda deanship but just didn't want to deal with the issue knowing no true remedy was found for the issue.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by beastykato » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:25 am

dsmclone wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 am
OldBallCoach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:57 am
Do you think the known issue has lowered the value of your sisters car? Honda would do the same thing for the 3rd owner of the car at 100K? You do make a fair point I will admit.
She is at least the second owner.

As far as the car value:

The 4cyl (which had no issues) has a trade in value of $7,305. The exact same model/option with the 6cyl has a trade in of $7,836

From her perspective, this has actually worked out pretty well. She is now driving a Honda Accord that has had no other big issues and it's engine is new.
I just wanted to point out that the 4-cyl engine also had issues. They simply weren't publicly made available during the lawsuit. The issue wasn't just plugs and VCM issues, but also faulty piston rings being used on many engines allowing excessive oil consumption.

I also own that V6 and have the VCM muzzler installed now to hopefully rectify the issue.

If you go back and read the full court documents there were two people that initially filed that lawsuit, a 4-cyl owner and a V6 owner, the 4-cyl owner was paid off and Honda's legal team was then able to limit their liability to a very specific subset of V6 engines with the VCM and specific trouble codes.

I'm a life long Honda owner too and I'm also done with them. At this point, I honestly hope they continue down this path and self-destruct, although I know that's pretty unlikely. I'll definitely do my part of having people avoid their vehicles because their reputation really isn't deserved.

smitcat
Posts: 4362
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:22 am

beastykato wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:25 am
dsmclone wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 am
OldBallCoach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:57 am
Do you think the known issue has lowered the value of your sisters car? Honda would do the same thing for the 3rd owner of the car at 100K? You do make a fair point I will admit.
She is at least the second owner.

As far as the car value:

The 4cyl (which had no issues) has a trade in value of $7,305. The exact same model/option with the 6cyl has a trade in of $7,836

From her perspective, this has actually worked out pretty well. She is now driving a Honda Accord that has had no other big issues and it's engine is new.
I just wanted to point out that the 4-cyl engine also had issues. They simply weren't publicly made available during the lawsuit. The issue wasn't just plugs and VCM issues, but also faulty piston rings being used on many engines allowing excessive oil consumption.

I also own that V6 and have the VCM muzzler installed now to hopefully rectify the issue.

If you go back and read the full court documents there were two people that initially filed that lawsuit, a 4-cyl owner and a V6 owner, the 4-cyl owner was paid off and Honda's legal team was then able to limit their liability to a very specific subset of V6 engines with the VCM and specific trouble codes.

I'm a life long Honda owner too and I'm also done with them. At this point, I honestly hope they continue down this path and self-destruct, although I know that's pretty unlikely. I'll definitely do my part of having people avoid their vehicles because their reputation really isn't deserved.
Which 4 cyl Honda engine produced in what years has a problem?

wasp09
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:08 pm

Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by wasp09 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:10 pm

New TSB posted in crvownersclub:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1axlDuG ... PcsFz/view

Honda says engine is running normally but somehow no good for spark plugs and camshafts.

Perhaps owners should start checking spark plugs and listening to engine for whirling sound.

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