Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

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KlangFool
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by KlangFool » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:49 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:29 pm
inbox788 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:18 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:23 pm
I hope you got out of that function. No employer is going to agree to that. I have seen CEO packages that don’t cover that. Good lord people, do you really think this is a negotiating position?
She may not get all that, but sure it's all about negotiation. You know the expression about not being paid what you're worth, but what you negotiate. Willingness to negotiate is a factor in the gender gap. Gender is a sensitive subject and open discussion may be limited by legal liabilities, but it's one of the elephants in the room, so if it's a factor, use it to your advantage to reach parity if not go past.

Has DW looked around or received any offers? Contacted any recruiters? You can be honest and tell them you're currently working (without getting into the specific situation) and may not be ready to move, but want to see what's your current worth and what's currently out there.
The thing about negotiation is that sometimes if you start by asking for too much, you get nothing
tibbitts,

The thing about negotiation is if you do not ask for what you want, you may never get it. Then, you will lose for sure.

There is always a choice in life.

A) Do you want to hope to be lucky? Aka, get what you want without asking for it.

B) Ask and fight for what you want?

KlangFool

z91
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by z91 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:00 am

I find it hilarious that people in this thread want so much out of this. I've been involved on a lot of huge contracts and have never stopped renewal simply because an account executive has left for greener pastures. That would be silly as switching is expensive and I need to do what's best for the company, not because I like talking to someone.

It was a mistake to "layoff" OP's wife, but none of it is in writing and maybe OP's wife is supposed to be on the list but X simply is pulling in a hard favor.

Seems like half the company is pretty apologetic over the whole thing. What more do people want? If OP's wife is worth so much to the company why not ask for a raise while we're at it.

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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:05 am

1 year commitment......or what? Is this just a promise to stay a year, giving her word and nothing else or is it staying a year or she has to pay back that 6 weeks of pay? The problem, if there's a string attached to the 6 weeks of pay is that they could write it where they could fire her 1 day short of a year and then demand the 6 weeks of pay be returned.
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cherijoh
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by cherijoh » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:09 am

imyeti2 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:10 am
So an update to this.

They came back with an offer of ~6 weeks of pay to have her join back, however with a 1 year commitment to stay. Constant calls from all levels of leadership to the point that she is physically tired of speaking to everyone.

Nothing can be done about the RSUs because of company policy.

Verbal promise that things will change and she will be able to enjoy a lot more freedom than before.

We did contact a recruiter who suggested to stay given that senior level positions are difficult to come by. There are many many junior level positions opening regularly but it takes time for senior positions to open and recruit.

I also approached an employment attorney (not disclosing to DW). That individual wanted to talk/negotiate with the employer directly. This is something we would not want because of future prospects given the industry is small and everyone knows everyone.

So in the end, DW is leaning toward staying with the offer that has been made and see how things pan out in the future.

Thank you all for your comment/suggestions/support.
What happened with the bonus that they hadn't previously mentioned? Presumably if she stays she get that too, correct? Hopefully they don't play a fast one and carve the 6 weeks of pay out of the bonus she was already owed. I also wonder on whose side is the 1-year commitment - theirs, your wifes, or both?

If she does end up staying, I would recommend that she stay in touch with the recruiter in case a senior position does open up AND that she increase her level of networking outside her current company. At senior levels, your connections make all the difference. Also this is a fall back in case their verbal promises of "more freedom" don't pan out. FYI - I have a friend who was in a similar consulting position in the same industry as your wife (very possibly in the same company) who is now working at a medical device company. Your wife may need to think outside the box and identify transferable skills.

If she isn't already using LinkedIn, I recommend that she at least leverage that to reconnect with past colleagues. That requires a minimum amount of effort - setting up a bare bones profile with employment and dates. LinkedIn will generate the lists of "people you may know". Adding in more details of her accomplishments and skills will allow recruiters to find her with job opportunities.

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samsoes
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by samsoes » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:12 am

imyeti2 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:10 am
So an update to this.

They came back with an offer of ~6 weeks of pay to have her join back, however with a 1 year commitment to stay. Constant calls from all levels of leadership to the point that she is physically tired of speaking to everyone.

Nothing can be done about the RSUs because of company policy.

Verbal promise that things will change and she will be able to enjoy a lot more freedom than before.

We did contact a recruiter who suggested to stay given that senior level positions are difficult to come by. There are many many junior level positions opening regularly but it takes time for senior positions to open and recruit.

I also approached an employment attorney (not disclosing to DW). That individual wanted to talk/negotiate with the employer directly. This is something we would not want because of future prospects given the industry is small and everyone knows everyone.

So in the end, DW is leaning toward staying with the offer that has been made and see how things pan out in the future.

Thank you all for your comment/suggestions/support.
That would be unacceptable to me.

She should take the severance and bail from that rat's nest and not look back.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by ResearchMed » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:16 am

samsoes wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:12 am
imyeti2 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:10 am
So an update to this.

They came back with an offer of ~6 weeks of pay to have her join back, however with a 1 year commitment to stay. Constant calls from all levels of leadership to the point that she is physically tired of speaking to everyone.

Nothing can be done about the RSUs because of company policy.

Verbal promise that things will change and she will be able to enjoy a lot more freedom than before.

We did contact a recruiter who suggested to stay given that senior level positions are difficult to come by. There are many many junior level positions opening regularly but it takes time for senior positions to open and recruit.

I also approached an employment attorney (not disclosing to DW). That individual wanted to talk/negotiate with the employer directly. This is something we would not want because of future prospects given the industry is small and everyone knows everyone.

So in the end, DW is leaning toward staying with the offer that has been made and see how things pan out in the future.

Thank you all for your comment/suggestions/support.
That would be unacceptable to me.

She should take the severance and bail from that rat's nest and not look back.
That's easier said than done, especially given OP's private conversation with a headhunter... that senior positions aren't all that frequent.

First question is: WHO is the responsible party for that 1 year commitment... exactly whom does it bind?

Assuming it's binding on both, then DW could consider looking, and if necessary do her best to delay any new job until the year is up. Recruiting firm might be pleased that she is fulfilling obligation. Plus nothing is likely to happen immediately.

And yes, then get out as soon as convenient/have another good position.
Something is definitely "off", even if she wasn't "the intended", and who knows if that is really true for everyone in the company?

And yes also: what about the initial "offer"?

RM
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themesrob
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by themesrob » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:21 am

8foot7 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:18 am
Is that her making a one year commitment to stay or them making a one year commitment to her in writing?

To me, this is not enough, and if she is truly as valuable as you say, she shouldn't have much of a problem finding another role.

This smacks of them wanting to milk her for several months to make sure the things she touches and manages are directly transitioned over to other folks before they give her the heave-ho.
This, unfortunately. It is a definite red flag that they would seek to lock her in for a year (as opposed to their making a commitment to her) under these circumstances. My guess would be that it would be a de facto year of garden leave -- which, mind you, is better than four months of severance in some ways, but would hinder her ability to bring her book of business to a new shop.

Did they ever send the severance package in writing?

HomeStretch
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by HomeStretch » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:40 am

I think DW’s approach is fine if that’s how she wants to handle it.

Regarding the 1 year commitment... as the company has damaged her trust in them, it’s reasonable to request a written employment agreement. Terms should include: specifying her current title, reporting structure and compensation; the 1-year commitment works both ways and what happens in the event that she is terminated “without cause” - usually it involves payment of severance & pro-rata bonus, accrued vacation, accelerated vesting of r/s, etc. Although unenforceable in some states, watch out for the company adding in a non-compete clause if she terminates without cause (which I would not agree to). The agreement should specify that DW can resign “with cause” in the event the company tries to renege on the termination benefits and force her to quit via compensation reduction, significant duties downgrade, moving her job location more than xx miles from current location, significant increase in travel, changing who she reports to, etc.

I would have the employment attorney review the agreement before signing, but not have attorney negotiate directly with the company.

Titles and office locations are “cheap”, so if DW wants a title upgrade or different office, she should ask now.

Hard to tell if this was a mistake that the company is trying to rectify in good faith or if the 1 year just buys them time to figure out how to reallocate her responsibilities. That they perceive her as “non-billable” is an issue as that usually equates in their eyes to “non-revenue generating”, which you said is not true. She needs to change that perception from the CEO, down and across the organization. As suggested by another poster, she should brush up her resume and LinkedIn profile, and renew her network of contacts.

Best of luck to DW!

P.S. It’s great that you have DW’s back. But tell her soon you spoke to an employment attorney behind her back. Let her deal with the attorney going forward.

benaaye
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by benaaye » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:16 pm

Interesting --Is it common for people to actually go back to a company after being laid off? Does the company usually pay you back for the months unemployed or do you need another offer to better negotiate? Congrats OP!

simas
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Re: Need Help - DW Laid Off and Company wants her back now

Post by simas » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:37 pm

benaaye wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:16 pm
Interesting --Is it common for people to actually go back to a company after being laid off? Does the company usually pay you back for the months unemployed or do you need another offer to better negotiate? Congrats OP!
I have friends that went back to the company after layoffs. Company management changed in IT , new team came in, they went around and started downsizing all titles (and pay ranges with it). Choice was accept or leave under layoff . two different friends picked leave (good severance etc). Few months later after checking job market they decided to come back into different team/position.

Company does not pay you back for months unemployed - that is pretty funny :). company has a slot, you want in - y/n. if you want in and they want you => go ahead. if you come back with some fantasy (I have many others =>ok, then you are saying 'N' to this one, go enjoy your many offers)..

Yes, what people suggest here is pretty crazy in terms of fantasies about power of their negotiating positions..

as for why person went back - familiar with culture, company, decent pay, much smaller responsibilities (everything reset, different team/unit now, no approval to do any 'former' work ,etc). company continues your tenure (so vacations , sabbaticals, vesting of various programs), all taken care of for re-hire employees. Re-hires are normal, welcomed, and celebrated within culture

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