Is the MBA degree market saturated?

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stimulacra
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Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by stimulacra »

Something I've noticed in the last year or so… there are a number of colleagues at work, about a half dozen, that have MBA degrees that have some prestige or cachet in the local market (Houston). They are doing pretty much the exact same thing that they did before they got the degree, in a couple of cases the employer footed the bill but in the rest of the cases it is all school loans.

I've thought about pursuing an advanced degree on and off at various points of my career but am genuinely wondering if an MBA is still worth it in 2019? In Houston the cost of an executive MBA program or a bi-weekly one is over $100k. For every person I know that has leveraged the opportunity to either become a better entrepreneur or jump up to the executive track, there is an equal amount that are still mid-career contributor or front line managers at my organization.

I'm curious to know if degree or credential inflation has peaked in the U.S. job market?
123
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by 123 »

I think in the area of business there's been a lot of saturation of degrees being available. Anyone in a city of significant size can get an MBA or Executive MBA from a part-time program at University of Phoenix or similar if they're (or their employer) is willing to pay for it. A lot of the same thing has happened in the public sector for local government and education. So there's escalation of ambiguous credentials.

An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.

I think advanced degrees in the hard sciences, including engineering and computer science still have value.

Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
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staythecourse
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by staythecourse »

123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
I have cousins who in total have 2 stanford mbas, 2 harvard mba, and 1 wharton mba (who is married to a wharton mba) and NONE of them are any more successful with their mba then they were without. I'm sure I will take a lot of flack for it, but an MBA is probably the easiest of all respected degrees. So no surprise you have a lot of them out there and thus saturating the market.

Good luck.
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pward
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by pward »

Well business skills are useful in most career fields. So it's natural that business graduate degrees would be popular, especially for people that are in the workforce, climbing the corporate ladder, and looking for that little extra nudge. That being said, as is the case with most degrees, professional experience matters much more than a degree. Throwing money at the problem will only do so much. If it can open the door for you to your first real opportunity to get start building that all important professional experience, then it could be worth it. But there may be cheaper ways to get that experience. An MBA won't take you anywhere you can't go without it. It just sometimes greases the doorway a bit. I don't think it's saturated, I just think that it's not necessary in most cases.
Last edited by pward on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

staythecourse wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:56 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
I have cousins who in total have 2 stanford mbas, 2 harvard mba, and 1 wharton mba (who is married to a wharton mba) and NONE of them are any more successful with their mba then they were without. I'm sure I will take a lot of flack for it, but an MBA is probably the easiest of all respected degrees. So no surprise you have a lot of them out there and thus saturating the market.

Good luck.
Partially disagree. The reason why you have alot of them out there - marketing, marketing and more marketing. Academic institutions are in the business of producing degrees and collecting huge amounts of revenue (ahem, tuition) in the process. It also helps that employers are paying for the degree. I can't think of other types of businesses which pay for degrees outside of the MBA, no one is paying for medical degrees, nursing degrees, teaching degrees (outside of some government sponsored programs). Hence, more MBA's. As to it being easy, I can think of countless other degrees which are far less demanding in terms of time, energy and money to obtain.
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lvrpl
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by lvrpl »

staythecourse wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:56 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
I have cousins who in total have 2 stanford mbas, 2 harvard mba, and 1 wharton mba (who is married to a wharton mba) and NONE of them are any more successful with their mba then they were without. I'm sure I will take a lot of flack for it, but an MBA is probably the easiest of all respected degrees. So no surprise you have a lot of them out there and thus saturating the market.

Good luck.
It's not that the degree is hard (in those programs, to be honest, the degree program is as hard as you want it to be). It's that getting accepted into a program like that is hard. If you think it's about the difficulty of the program itself, you don't understand the point of a top tier MBA.
Dmanse02
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Dmanse02 »

I think there are a lot of degrees being diluted by online/money scamming universities. Essentially you fulfill some time requiremnet, pay the price, and they hand out the degree. Being in healthcare, I see this trend with several new online NP and PA programs. I would be furious to see my previously hard earned degree being diluted by these new programs.
runner3081
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by runner3081 »

Dmanse02 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:19 pm I think there are a lot of degrees being diluted by online/money scamming universities. Essentially you fulfill some time requiremnet, pay the price, and they hand out the degree. Being in healthcare, I see this trend with several new online NP and PA programs. I would be furious to see my previously hard earned degree being diluted by these new programs.
Online doesn't equal scam in all cases.

My online MBA was from a reputable school and was a pain in the you know what!
Sam1
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Sam1 »

pward wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:01 pm Well business skills are useful in most career fields. So it's natural that business graduate degrees would be popular, especially for people that are in the workforce, climbing the corporate ladder, and looking for that little extra nudge. That being said, as is the case with most degrees, professional experience matters much more than a degree. Throwing money at the problem will only do so much. If it can open the door for you to your first real opportunity to get start building that all important professional experience, then it could be worth it. But there may be cheaper ways to get that experience. An MBA won't take you anywhere you can't go without it. It just sometimes greases the doorway a bit. I don't think it's saturated, I just think that it's not necessary in most cases.
This. You can practice any sort of business related job without an MBA. Few can manage to become lawyers without graduating law school. You have to graduate from medical school to be a doctor.

In my opinion it’s a giant waste of money. But I’ve done well professionally without one so it’s my own personal bias.
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Lucky Lemon
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Lucky Lemon »

123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm
An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.
Or not. Most folks with an MBA only bring a “new” vocabulary to the table. No real skills. So far it hasn’t really mattered where the MBA is from
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BogleWogle
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by BogleWogle »

MBA’s are as much about networking as they are about education, more so with the elite institutions mentioned previously in this thread.

To the OP’s point, I know many MBA grads that went straight through after undergraduate school or little working experience and from an outside perspective, they’ve added little value to their careers.
Bacchus01
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Bacchus01 »

This is always a fun topic.

I think mine made me a better business person. It didn’t create any cache or network or anything. I simply learned a ton and applied even more.

I always encourage people to get their MBAs in their 20s, but you have to have work experience. It’s hard to go back in your 30s+ and get an MBA. Night school. Fine. eMBA weekend program. Fine.

Online MBA or Univ of Phoenix? Do not waste your time.
Stich
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Stich »

Bacchus01, as someone who is in their 20's and looking to do a professional MBA at a high-ranked public university, I appreciate those words. I am mostly interested in learning business skills. At this point in my life, it seems simple enough to go back to school (flexible job, DW working and pursuing Master's). I do worry about how employers would view professional/online/full-time down the road. I imagine if the programs continue to vary in quality, employers will be more apt to ask specifics about the degree.
Howie
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Howie »

As the number of providers of such degrees has increased over the years the comparative value of an MBA from a Top 30 program has only grown. Often times this can become a tiebreaker with respect to garnering an interview and an MBA from one of the elite schools carries much more weight than one from a lesser known school. An online MBA is virtually worthless in the eyes of legitimate HR personnel and executive recruiters.
ny_knicks
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by ny_knicks »

There’s two types of MBAs - go to an elite school and get a job in something you could not have without it (think IB / PE / Consulting). It’s quite obvious which schools people are doing this at. The key is these jobs are not obtainable for people without the degree. Many are seeing salaries go from $70k to $200k+ comp all in their first year after graduation with rapidly accelerating salaries in their first 5 years out. I know a lot of people in my MBA class that did this.

Or do a part-time / online degree to help advance in your current job or check the box for future promotions. These the reward is less clear at the time but there is likely still some incremental value. I just wouldn’t do it unless someone’s paying for it.

Comparing these two types or using blanket statements about the degree is silly. They are very different career paths / tools for very different situations.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Cycle »

Just read this book once every couple years.

https://personalmba.com

There I saved u 100k.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
Nowizard
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Nowizard »

As others have said, MBA's are like lawyers. Arguably, there are more than enough of each, and that means that there is a huge disparity in salary and opportunity depending on where you graduated. Having family who attended top programs and acquaintance knowledge of those obtaining MBA's at second tier or on-line programs, there is a vast difference in obtaining employment and career ladders. Even among top school graduates, there are certain companies that tend to prefer ones from, say, Wharton than HBS (Harvard).

Tim
staythecourse
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by staythecourse »

lvrpl wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:13 pm
staythecourse wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:56 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
I have cousins who in total have 2 stanford mbas, 2 harvard mba, and 1 wharton mba (who is married to a wharton mba) and NONE of them are any more successful with their mba then they were without. I'm sure I will take a lot of flack for it, but an MBA is probably the easiest of all respected degrees. So no surprise you have a lot of them out there and thus saturating the market.

Good luck.
It's not that the degree is hard (in those programs, to be honest, the degree program is as hard as you want it to be). It's that getting accepted into a program like that is hard. If you think it's about the difficulty of the program itself, you don't understand the point of a top tier MBA.
Agreed. It is not the degree that matters, but knowing the person who got the degree got accepted into x school. In the end does that even matter? If you look at C-level folks have degrees from the big 3-4? Not many. Most are in those spots based on their drive, vision, and accomplishments while on the job.

As I have said all I know is the folks who are from my extended family and can't say in the end any of them did any better then they are with it vs. without it. Now that being said the are all brilliant and have done very well in life based on that so maybe that is your point.

Good luck.
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techthedj
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by techthedj »

Would also like to add that an MBA program at a top program is often used to pivot one's career. There aren't many paths to transition from engineer to management consultant, and this is arguably the best path.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by techthedj »

staythecourse wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:10 am If you look at C-level folks have degrees from the big 3-4? Not many.
IMO this assessment is only fair if you compare the proportion of C-level folks with MBAs from H/S/W vs the general population.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by stoptothink »

BogleWogle wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:02 am MBA’s are as much about networking as they are about education, more so with the elite institutions mentioned previously in this thread.

To the OP’s point, I know many MBA grads that went straight through after undergraduate school or little working experience and from an outside perspective, they’ve added little value to their careers.
Throw in my anecdote. My best friend has an MBA from Wharton, another friend is currently at Wharton, and I have several handfuls of colleagues with MBA's from some other highly regarded programs (Texas, UCLA, Yale, to name three of which I can literally see from my office right now). I don't think I've ever heard a single one of these people say the education had much value at all, in some cases the networking absolutely did. It jump-started my best friend's career, but IMO primarily because it was the catalyst to get him out of a field where he was never going to be really successful.

I'd personally never consider an MBA unless an employer suggested it or even was willing to help pay for it.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by StandingRock »

techthedj wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:16 pm Would also like to add that an MBA program at a top program is often used to pivot one's career. There aren't many paths to transition from engineer to management consultant, and this is arguably the best path.
Interesting. What I have noticed over the last few years in the IT field, is that some people have gone the MBA route to burnish their credentials for advancement into IT management. Imagine the sociology and philosophy or history majors that managed to get a web development job or something 10 years ago, played the corporate game to survive and then used a nontechnical degree path to maneuver into a position of authority over skilled and experienced professionals.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by fourkids »

I definitely think my top 10 B school MBA helped me progress and get my upper management job. The knowledge I learned there was invaluable. The people I met from different backgrounds were an eye opener. The networking is fantastic.
I absolutely wouldn't bother at all with a non top 10 MBA.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by sd323232 »

Do not get MBA if you have to pay for tuition yourself. MBA is not worth spending 100k+.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by patrick013 »

stimulacra wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:07 pm
I'm curious to know if degree or credential inflation has peaked in the U.S. job market?
I think every occupation is overpopulated. Every industry has over production capability. Medium or larger companies would benefit from a few MBA's in management. Not every degreed person gets to be director of Accounting or Finance for example. I personally wouldn't go past an MBA. Evolved conceptual tools are pragmatic with that degree. Business Phd's doing research aren't usually what MBA's would do.

The market for degreed people has plenty of applicants, for MBA's probably equally full of applicants.
Drove past a factory that was hiring for new orders in production and I heard 400 applicants showed up for those jobs. Go figure.

...
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staythecourse
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by staythecourse »

techthedj wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:25 pm
staythecourse wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:10 am If you look at C-level folks have degrees from the big 3-4? Not many.
IMO this assessment is only fair if you compare the proportion of C-level folks with MBAs from H/S/W vs the general population.
Good point.

Good luck.
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Coltrane75
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Coltrane75 »

I think there is credential inflation for most degrees and certificates in general. I've met someone who has an MS in Leadership; really? lol

I work in quality systems and many have a graduate degree along with a collection of professional certificates. I don't really see, at least in most big MegaCorps, a financial or professional upgrade kick-in as soon as you obtain the degree.

As others have said, MBA's from top schools, are a requirement for certain industries and companies within them. Otherwise, like any other degree, your mileage will vary.

I think the most important factor in terms of one moving up is your professional networking skills. I somewhat disagree with others that have stated that working hard is the primary factor; especially in large organizations. Its doing what the people above you tell you to do, and getting along with them, that will move you up.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Bfwolf »

ny_knicks wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:37 am There’s two types of MBAs - go to an elite school and get a job in something you could not have without it (think IB / PE / Consulting). It’s quite obvious which schools people are doing this at. The key is these jobs are not obtainable for people without the degree. Many are seeing salaries go from $70k to $200k+ comp all in their first year after graduation with rapidly accelerating salaries in their first 5 years out. I know a lot of people in my MBA class that did this.

Or do a part-time / online degree to help advance in your current job or check the box for future promotions. These the reward is less clear at the time but there is likely still some incremental value. I just wouldn’t do it unless someone’s paying for it.

Comparing these two types or using blanket statements about the degree is silly. They are very different career paths / tools for very different situations.
+1

I was one of the first types. I went to a top tier school and more than doubled my salary following graduation in a job I could never in a million years have gotten before my MBA. Also, as someone who majored in the liberal arts and then had a job after undergrad that didn't teach hard business skills, I learned a ton in my MBA which helped my future career tremendously. The ROI on my MBA was huge.

I'm much more suspect of the MBAs people get part-time without the intention of changing jobs afterwards. The greatest value of the MBA is the one-time moment it gives you upon graduation to pivot your career into a different field. I guess if their employer is paying for it, it can be worth it.

A lot of people here are talking about the networking value of MBAs....I think that's being overblown. I'm sure some have gotten value from this, but I don't think it's a driver for most.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by stoptothink »

Coltrane75 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:37 pm I think there is credential inflation for most degrees and certificates in general. I've met someone who has an MS in Leadership; really? lol
Absolutely. This game is never more evident than in public education, where an advanced degree (no matter what it is) usually gets an automatic pay bump. My step-father, a public school English teacher, just started an MA program so he can get a bump and try to get into administration; he basically spent 6-months researching what would be the easiest and cheapest degree. Some of the options were downright hilarious. That's exactly the strategy that his school administrators and many of his peers told him to employ.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by willthrill81 »

Having taught in multiple MBA programs myself and being in on many conversations on both sides of the fence, I can tell you that there are only three types of MBA that still have significant added value for a large proportion of those get them: (1) an executive MBA from a solid program, (2) a 'general' MBA from one of the top B-schools, and (3) a specialized MBA.

Executive MBA programs at good B-schools really can improve students' knowledge and skills in the workplace, and networking is a huge benefit as well. Be prepared to cough up at least $70k for a good one.

A general MBA from a top B-school still tends to carry significant weight in many, perhaps even most, industries. Networking is a big feature here as well. The cost can be obscenely high though, easily $200k.

A specialized MBA that focuses on a relatively new, 'hot' area can provide students with both good skills and connections in a niche area, where the connections tend to count the most, and may be valuable to many companies interested in expanding into the new area, although this added value can degrade rather quickly if the industry quickly moves past that area or it becomes saturated with similar graduates.

A general MBA from a typical university is, in my experience, not usually very helpful from a career perspective, although you can find many instances where they were. Mine was useful to me simply because it showed me that I wanted to continue my education in a different direction, and that new direction completely overhauled my career for the better.

YMMV.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm I think in the area of business there's been a lot of saturation of degrees being available. Anyone in a city of significant size can get an MBA or Executive MBA from a part-time program at University of Phoenix or similar if they're (or their employer) is willing to pay for it. A lot of the same thing has happened in the public sector for local government and education. So there's escalation of ambiguous credentials.

An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.

I think advanced degrees in the hard sciences, including engineering and computer science still have value.

Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
The quality of these programs now maybe not the same as years ago. The people they accept into these programs are not the same caliber I thought of years ago . My kid knows someone closely at these programs.
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by willthrill81 »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:34 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm I think in the area of business there's been a lot of saturation of degrees being available. Anyone in a city of significant size can get an MBA or Executive MBA from a part-time program at University of Phoenix or similar if they're (or their employer) is willing to pay for it. A lot of the same thing has happened in the public sector for local government and education. So there's escalation of ambiguous credentials.

An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.

I think advanced degrees in the hard sciences, including engineering and computer science still have value.

Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
The quality of these programs now maybe not the same as years ago. The people they accept into these programs are not the same caliber I thought of years ago . My kid knows someone closely at these programs.
Yes, many MBA programs have lowered their standards in order to attract more students. And the quality of the incoming students has more to do with the quality of the outgoing students than anything else.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Bfwolf »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:34 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm I think in the area of business there's been a lot of saturation of degrees being available. Anyone in a city of significant size can get an MBA or Executive MBA from a part-time program at University of Phoenix or similar if they're (or their employer) is willing to pay for it. A lot of the same thing has happened in the public sector for local government and education. So there's escalation of ambiguous credentials.

An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.

I think advanced degrees in the hard sciences, including engineering and computer science still have value.

Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
The quality of these programs now maybe not the same as years ago. The people they accept into these programs are not the same caliber I thought of years ago . My kid knows someone closely at these programs.
Yes, many MBA programs have lowered their standards in order to attract more students. And the quality of the incoming students has more to do with the quality of the outgoing students than anything else.
Do you guys have evidence to back up this claim that top MBA programs are lowering their standards?
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by willthrill81 »

Bfwolf wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:34 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm I think in the area of business there's been a lot of saturation of degrees being available. Anyone in a city of significant size can get an MBA or Executive MBA from a part-time program at University of Phoenix or similar if they're (or their employer) is willing to pay for it. A lot of the same thing has happened in the public sector for local government and education. So there's escalation of ambiguous credentials.

An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.

I think advanced degrees in the hard sciences, including engineering and computer science still have value.

Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
The quality of these programs now maybe not the same as years ago. The people they accept into these programs are not the same caliber I thought of years ago . My kid knows someone closely at these programs.
Yes, many MBA programs have lowered their standards in order to attract more students. And the quality of the incoming students has more to do with the quality of the outgoing students than anything else.
Do you guys have evidence to back up this claim that top MBA programs are lowering their standards?
First-hand experience. I'm a business professor.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

Bfwolf wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:34 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm I think in the area of business there's been a lot of saturation of degrees being available. Anyone in a city of significant size can get an MBA or Executive MBA from a part-time program at University of Phoenix or similar if they're (or their employer) is willing to pay for it. A lot of the same thing has happened in the public sector for local government and education. So there's escalation of ambiguous credentials.

An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.

I think advanced degrees in the hard sciences, including engineering and computer science still have value.

Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
The quality of these programs now maybe not the same as years ago. The people they accept into these programs are not the same caliber I thought of years ago . My kid knows someone closely at these programs.
Yes, many MBA programs have lowered their standards in order to attract more students. And the quality of the incoming students has more to do with the quality of the outgoing students than anything else.
Do you guys have evidence to back up this claim that top MBA programs are lowering their standards?
Lower admission standards. Same with law schools. Friends from my kids highschool have gotten into law school like UCLA and such, these kids never was academic chops in high school, let alone college, while they ended up with these schools. Years ago, one of my friends graduated summa cum laude from UCLA engineering school and he got accepted to UCLA law schools. Not any more. That’s what I mean by the same caliber, the market for these professions must be saturated.
Bfwolf
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:19 am

Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by Bfwolf »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:21 pm
Bfwolf wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:34 pm
123 wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm I think in the area of business there's been a lot of saturation of degrees being available. Anyone in a city of significant size can get an MBA or Executive MBA from a part-time program at University of Phoenix or similar if they're (or their employer) is willing to pay for it. A lot of the same thing has happened in the public sector for local government and education. So there's escalation of ambiguous credentials.

An MBA from a real school, with a full-time residential program, like a Stanford or UCLA, is worth far more.

I think advanced degrees in the hard sciences, including engineering and computer science still have value.

Some fields still have credentials that matter, like the CPA or CFA.
The quality of these programs now maybe not the same as years ago. The people they accept into these programs are not the same caliber I thought of years ago . My kid knows someone closely at these programs.
Yes, many MBA programs have lowered their standards in order to attract more students. And the quality of the incoming students has more to do with the quality of the outgoing students than anything else.
Do you guys have evidence to back up this claim that top MBA programs are lowering their standards?
First-hand experience. I'm a business professor.
The average GMAT for Stanford is 732. The average GPA is 3.74. The average GMAT at UCLA is 719 and middle 80% GPA range is 3.2 to 3.8. It's been almost 20 years since I got my MBA, but those statistics sound very similar to the stats when I applied.
IMO
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by IMO »

OP, personally I think the MBA market seems saturated. Seems everyone has an MBA behind their name.

Seems like even "better schools" have come up with their on-line version. I think that's because "education" in itself has become such a big industry.

From a quick search online, you find things like:

"The Ivy League has gone Cyber League, and several top business schools offer distance or online MBA degrees these days. ... In 2011, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill launched its first online MBA, called MBA@UNC at the Kenan-Flagler business school."

https://online.wharton.upenn.edu/
http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/degrees/fully-employed-mba

Does it matter nowadays on the particular's? Probably in some situations.

I think it also may just matter in someone's personal career situation. I'm sure there are lots of people that got an MBA that provided them additional skills (no matter where they got it) that may have helped them PERSONALLY advance their career. Be that in government or private sector jobs.

On this site, there's seems like there is this pervasive thought that if you don't graduate from the top undergraduate schools or graduate schools (or go to the top private elementary/high school) that you won't be a successful and productive member of society.
ny_knicks
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by ny_knicks »

Bfwolf wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:58 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:21 pm
Bfwolf wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:34 pm

The quality of these programs now maybe not the same as years ago. The people they accept into these programs are not the same caliber I thought of years ago . My kid knows someone closely at these programs.
Yes, many MBA programs have lowered their standards in order to attract more students. And the quality of the incoming students has more to do with the quality of the outgoing students than anything else.
Do you guys have evidence to back up this claim that top MBA programs are lowering their standards?
First-hand experience. I'm a business professor.
The average GMAT for Stanford is 732. The average GPA is 3.74. The average GMAT at UCLA is 719 and middle 80% GPA range is 3.2 to 3.8. It's been almost 20 years since I got my MBA, but those statistics sound very similar to the stats when I applied.
It’s actually the opposite trend - GMAT / GPA have all gone up year over year at top schools. These schools also now require significant work experience which is a big piece of the equation to getting accepted. Acceptance rates have all gone down across the board not up.

So unless talented people today aren’t what they used to be I think these schools are still bringing in very high quality people.

Now a school ranked in the 40s not so much - these schools struggle to attract talent because the payoff is not as clear. But they can’t be compared to the truly elite business schools.

Look st the employment reports for top 15 schools. 95%+ employment 3 months out of school (with 85%+ by graduation). Salaries are $125,000-$150,000 on average with signing bonuses in the $25,000 range. For someone whose 27 years old making $70,000 that’s quite a good upside for 2 years of school.

There are studies that show lifetime earnings for someone at elite b-schools to those who just did undergrad. I forget exact figures but it’s something like an additional $1.5M more over their lifetime. Note I said elite b-schools not the university of Phoenix.

As with anything your mileage may vary but I think for a large number of people attending an elite business school comes with a big financial reward and is a lot of fun for 2 years of their life.
westie
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Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by westie »

you can pick up a MBA in a year if you're in an accelerated program. It certainly doesn't carry the status it once held.
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willthrill81
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Location: USA

Re: Is the MBA degree market saturated?

Post by willthrill81 »

ny_knicks wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:53 am
Bfwolf wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:58 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:21 pm
Bfwolf wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:49 pm

Yes, many MBA programs have lowered their standards in order to attract more students. And the quality of the incoming students has more to do with the quality of the outgoing students than anything else.
Do you guys have evidence to back up this claim that top MBA programs are lowering their standards?
First-hand experience. I'm a business professor.
The average GMAT for Stanford is 732. The average GPA is 3.74. The average GMAT at UCLA is 719 and middle 80% GPA range is 3.2 to 3.8. It's been almost 20 years since I got my MBA, but those statistics sound very similar to the stats when I applied.
It’s actually the opposite trend - GMAT / GPA have all gone up year over year at top schools. These schools also now require significant work experience which is a big piece of the equation to getting accepted. Acceptance rates have all gone down across the board not up.

So unless talented people today aren’t what they used to be I think these schools are still bringing in very high quality people.

Now a school ranked in the 40s not so much - these schools struggle to attract talent because the payoff is not as clear. But they can’t be compared to the truly elite business schools.

Look st the employment reports for top 15 schools. 95%+ employment 3 months out of school (with 85%+ by graduation). Salaries are $125,000-$150,000 on average with signing bonuses in the $25,000 range. For someone whose 27 years old making $70,000 that’s quite a good upside for 2 years of school.

There are studies that show lifetime earnings for someone at elite b-schools to those who just did undergrad. I forget exact figures but it’s something like an additional $1.5M more over their lifetime. Note I said elite b-schools not the university of Phoenix.

As with anything your mileage may vary but I think for a large number of people attending an elite business school comes with a big financial reward and is a lot of fun for 2 years of their life.
Right. The top schools are still very selective, but the lower ranked schools are significantly less so than they once were.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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