Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:38 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:26 pm
Now only if Vanguard would update the account statements to provide a year to date statement listing all transactions for the year. One could then print the year end final statement and have a full accounting for the year.

I know Mel had mentioned that he mentioned this to Vanguard.
I really do not want a whole years transactions on some piece of paper. I download to Quicken weekly and I can download a whole years transactions in many formats if I want some other method of saving them. If you insist on paper you can always print your downloaded data.
Whatever works for you. However, Vanguard erroneously labels their statements as "Year to Date" and that's factually incorrect. They used to show all transactions for the YTD which meant you could toss previous statements. Now, under the new system, you have to keep the entire year's worth of statements if you want a true YTD of all transactions.

Irony though, the Vanguard Annuity part of the new "not-really YTD statements" DO SHOW ALL transactions for the year
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Doc » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 pm
Now, under the new system, you have to keep the entire year's worth of statements if you want a true YTD of all transactions.
No you don't. You can get all the transactions downloaded in several formats and print it if you want. But those formats do not include the "year to date statement". I just downloaded an Excel compatible file for 2018. It's ugly and a PITA but it is available.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:36 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 pm
Now, under the new system, you have to keep the entire year's worth of statements if you want a true YTD of all transactions.
No you don't. You can get all the transactions downloaded in several formats and print it if you want. But those formats do not include the "year to date statement". I just downloaded an Excel compatible file for 2018. It's ugly and a PITA but it is available.
Why on earth should investors have to jump through hoops to download an ugly and PITA version when the previous YTD statements actually included the entire year's worth of transactions AND the annuity section of current statements still includes the entire year's transactions? Makes absolutely no sense to me. They actually took a step backwards from previous practice.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:24 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:36 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 pm
Now, under the new system, you have to keep the entire year's worth of statements if you want a true YTD of all transactions.
No you don't. You can get all the transactions downloaded in several formats and print it if you want. But those formats do not include the "year to date statement". I just downloaded an Excel compatible file for 2018. It's ugly and a PITA but it is available.
Why on earth should investors have to jump through hoops to download an ugly and PITA version when the previous YTD statements actually included the entire year's worth of transactions AND the annuity section of current statements still includes the entire year's transactions? Makes absolutely no sense to me. They actually took a step backwards from previous practice.
Agreed. It is 2019 and we should not even be discussing this. Especially considering Vanguard used to provide one complete year to date statement with mutual fund only accounts.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by retiringwhen » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:33 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:24 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:36 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 pm
Now, under the new system, you have to keep the entire year's worth of statements if you want a true YTD of all transactions.
No you don't. You can get all the transactions downloaded in several formats and print it if you want. But those formats do not include the "year to date statement". I just downloaded an Excel compatible file for 2018. It's ugly and a PITA but it is available.
Why on earth should investors have to jump through hoops to download an ugly and PITA version when the previous YTD statements actually included the entire year's worth of transactions AND the annuity section of current statements still includes the entire year's transactions? Makes absolutely no sense to me. They actually took a step backwards from previous practice.
Agreed. It is 2019 and we should not even be discussing this. Especially considering Vanguard used to provide one complete year to date statement with mutual fund only accounts.
You know what is strange, for a short period around October 2018, I had an option to create a PDF report for a transaction history going back to 2012. It is now gone... I know I didn't dream it, since I have the downloaded reports I created! I don't know what happened to the report generation option. Note, this was not a statement, but a "pretty" PDF-based transaction report that could be done for any dates with available data in their database.

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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:41 pm

retiringwhen wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:33 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:24 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:36 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 pm
Now, under the new system, you have to keep the entire year's worth of statements if you want a true YTD of all transactions.
No you don't. You can get all the transactions downloaded in several formats and print it if you want. But those formats do not include the "year to date statement". I just downloaded an Excel compatible file for 2018. It's ugly and a PITA but it is available.
Why on earth should investors have to jump through hoops to download an ugly and PITA version when the previous YTD statements actually included the entire year's worth of transactions AND the annuity section of current statements still includes the entire year's transactions? Makes absolutely no sense to me. They actually took a step backwards from previous practice.
Agreed. It is 2019 and we should not even be discussing this. Especially considering Vanguard used to provide one complete year to date statement with mutual fund only accounts.
You know what is strange, for a short period around October 2018, I had an option to create a PDF report for a transaction history going back to 2012. It is now gone... I know I didn't dream it, since I have the downloaded reports I created! I don't know what happened to the report generation option. Note, this was not a statement, but a "pretty" PDF-based transaction report that could be done for any dates with available data in their database.
Why can’t Vanguard store all statements online forever and never purge old ones?
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:27 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:41 pm
retiringwhen wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:33 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:24 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:36 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm

No you don't. You can get all the transactions downloaded in several formats and print it if you want. But those formats do not include the "year to date statement". I just downloaded an Excel compatible file for 2018. It's ugly and a PITA but it is available.
Why on earth should investors have to jump through hoops to download an ugly and PITA version when the previous YTD statements actually included the entire year's worth of transactions AND the annuity section of current statements still includes the entire year's transactions? Makes absolutely no sense to me. They actually took a step backwards from previous practice.
Agreed. It is 2019 and we should not even be discussing this. Especially considering Vanguard used to provide one complete year to date statement with mutual fund only accounts.
You know what is strange, for a short period around October 2018, I had an option to create a PDF report for a transaction history going back to 2012. It is now gone... I know I didn't dream it, since I have the downloaded reports I created! I don't know what happened to the report generation option. Note, this was not a statement, but a "pretty" PDF-based transaction report that could be done for any dates with available data in their database.
Why can’t Vanguard store all statements online forever and never purge old ones?
We really don't need ALL statement -- only one complete YTD statement for each year like we used to get.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Doc » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:06 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:27 pm
We really don't need ALL statement -- only one complete YTD statement for each year like we used to get.
In another recent thread relating to Vangaurd stopping purchases of of some leveraged assets viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269047&p=4318922#p4318922 there was a comment today:

"They’re doing this because they can’t keep up with the day traders who won’t leave.

Vanguard refuses to invest in system upgrades to keep on top of cost basis, so once day traders hit 10,000 buys and sells, their basis won’t display online anymore."

In going to an in house brokerage Vanguard began increasing it's customer base that unlike most Bogleheads, are frequent traders. Maybe the increase in number of trades makes the year to date statements impractical. :idea:
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by abuss368 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:45 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:27 pm
We really don't need ALL statement -- only one complete YTD statement for each year like we used to get.
Hi Mel -

That is what I was thinking. In my opinion it would be ideal for Vanguard to provide and retain one year to date statement. This statement would be available forever when signing into your account. Vanguard would not purge or remove this statement.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 pm

Doc wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:06 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:27 pm
We really don't need ALL statement -- only one complete YTD statement for each year like we used to get.
In another recent thread relating to Vangaurd stopping purchases of of some leveraged assets viewtopic.php?f=10&t=269047&p=4318922#p4318922 there was a comment today:

"They’re doing this because they can’t keep up with the day traders who won’t leave.

Vanguard refuses to invest in system upgrades to keep on top of cost basis, so once day traders hit 10,000 buys and sells, their basis won’t display online anymore."

In going to an in house brokerage Vanguard began increasing it's customer base that unlike most Bogleheads, are frequent traders. Maybe the increase in number of trades makes the year to date statements impractical. :idea:
That's one possible explanation, Doc. However, IMO, they should punish traders who exceed a certain number and not punish all of the rest of us by taking away a valuable resource we previously had (one real YTD statement for each year).
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Doc » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:48 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 pm
That's one possible explanation, Doc. However, IMO, they should punish traders who exceed a certain number and not punish all of the rest of us by taking away a valuable resource we previously had (one real YTD statement for each year).
Nice idea but I don't think a broker is "allowed" to make that kind of restriction. Can they say someone who's third letter in their name is "l" instead of "k" should get different get treatment?

Vanguard took their brokerage business in house instead of outsourcing to Pershing probably for economic reasons. They should live with that decision whether it is good of bad in any one area.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17 am

Doc wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:48 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 pm
That's one possible explanation, Doc. However, IMO, they should punish traders who exceed a certain number and not punish all of the rest of us by taking away a valuable resource we previously had (one real YTD statement for each year).
Nice idea but I don't think a broker is "allowed" to make that kind of restriction. Can they say someone who's third letter in their name is "l" instead of "k" should get different get treatment?

Vanguard took their brokerage business in house instead of outsourcing to Pershing probably for economic reasons. They should live with that decision whether it is good of bad in any one area.
The previous statements from Vanguard DID include ALL transactions, so there's no obvious reason that they can't continue to do so.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Doc » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:29 am

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:48 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 pm
That's one possible explanation, Doc. However, IMO, they should punish traders who exceed a certain number and not punish all of the rest of us by taking away a valuable resource we previously had (one real YTD statement for each year).
Nice idea but I don't think a broker is "allowed" to make that kind of restriction. Can they say someone who's third letter in their name is "l" instead of "k" should get different get treatment?

Vanguard took their brokerage business in house instead of outsourcing to Pershing probably for economic reasons. They should live with that decision whether it is good of bad in any one area.
The previous statements from Vanguard DID include ALL transactions, so there's no obvious reason that they can't continue to do so.
Cost. If Vanguard is attracting more customers that trade more frequently than their buy and hold mutual fund base their costs go up. So your desire to increase costs is not very Bogleheadish. :D
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:36 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:29 am
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:48 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 pm
That's one possible explanation, Doc. However, IMO, they should punish traders who exceed a certain number and not punish all of the rest of us by taking away a valuable resource we previously had (one real YTD statement for each year).
Nice idea but I don't think a broker is "allowed" to make that kind of restriction. Can they say someone who's third letter in their name is "l" instead of "k" should get different get treatment?

Vanguard took their brokerage business in house instead of outsourcing to Pershing probably for economic reasons. They should live with that decision whether it is good of bad in any one area.
The previous statements from Vanguard DID include ALL transactions, so there's no obvious reason that they can't continue to do so.
Cost. If Vanguard is attracting more customers that trade more frequently than their buy and hold mutual fund base their costs go up. So your desire to increase costs is not very Bogleheadish. :D
Using your logic, to save costs, they should discontinue ALL paper statements.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by retiringwhen » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:29 am
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:48 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 pm
That's one possible explanation, Doc. However, IMO, they should punish traders who exceed a certain number and not punish all of the rest of us by taking away a valuable resource we previously had (one real YTD statement for each year).
Nice idea but I don't think a broker is "allowed" to make that kind of restriction. Can they say someone who's third letter in their name is "l" instead of "k" should get different get treatment?

Vanguard took their brokerage business in house instead of outsourcing to Pershing probably for economic reasons. They should live with that decision whether it is good of bad in any one area.
The previous statements from Vanguard DID include ALL transactions, so there's no obvious reason that they can't continue to do so.
Cost. If Vanguard is attracting more customers that trade more frequently than their buy and hold mutual fund base their costs go up. So your desire to increase costs is not very Bogleheadish. :D
There is a transaction history download page that works just fine with between 18 mos and 6 years of data depending upon which page you use. An annual YTD report is simply a reformatting of that data using exactly the same data as seen on the Balances over time page. This is not a major feature. I am sure that there are some interesting corner cases related to # of transactions as noted above as well possibly odd-ball transaction types, but they already have the data and can show it on a web-page and in some cases download as a .csv

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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Doc » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:20 pm

In responding to me
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17 am
The previous statements from Vanguard DID include ALL transactions, so there's no obvious reason that they can't continue to do so.
They can do it but it would increase costs.

Vanguard wants to get rid of paper altogether but there are people who are computer limited and Vanguard can't simply tell existing customers to take a hike because they can't or don't want to download the data themselves.
Vanguard wrote:When you sign up for e-delivery, you'll get an email notifying you that your important account documents are ready for instant access on our secure website. No more waiting for them to arrive in the mail!

And while you're helping us save money by reducing paper and postage, you may lower your own costs by eliminating some account service fees.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:07 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:20 pm
In responding to me
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17 am
The previous statements from Vanguard DID include ALL transactions, so there's no obvious reason that they can't continue to do so.
They can do it but it would increase costs.

Vanguard wants to get rid of paper altogether but there are people who are computer limited and Vanguard can't simply tell existing customers to take a hike because they can't or don't want to download the data themselves.
Vanguard wrote:When you sign up for e-delivery, you'll get an email notifying you that your important account documents are ready for instant access on our secure website. No more waiting for them to arrive in the mail!

And while you're helping us save money by reducing paper and postage, you may lower your own costs by eliminating some account service fees.
You're obviously missing the point here, Doc. Even the online December 2018 version that claims to be YTD (I downloaded it to see) doesn't include all transactions for that year -- it's the same as the paper version. It would be nice if it did. You're apparently aware of that fact, since you talked about how hard and sloppy it was to try to get the information for yourself.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Doc » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:45 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:07 pm
You're obviously missing the point here, Doc. Even the online December 2018 version that claims to be YTD (I downloaded it to see) doesn't include all transactions for that year -- it's the same as the paper version. It would be nice if it did. You're apparently aware of that fact, since you talked about how hard and sloppy it was to try to get the information for yourself.
I am not missing the point. What Vanguard is calling the YTD statement has Year to Date data for "Realized gains and losses" and "Income summary" but only December data for "Account overview" and "completed transactions". You want to have all the transactions for the year listed on the so called YTD statement. Maybe once upon a time when Vanguard's mutual fund holding were in a different account from the brokerage account you did get an actual YTD transaction list for the mutual fund part. As far as I can determine Vanguard brokerage account YTD statement never had transactions for the entire year.

You seem to be trying to make the point that Vanguard Brokerage at one time used to have actual YTD transaction on their December statement. As far as I can tell that is not correct for the brokerage account. Once upon a time It may have been true for the Vanguard Mutual fund only accounts. But these are two different companies even though related with different rules from regulars and different IT networks.

I wish that TBM was still paying upwards of 6% a year but my wishing it is not going to make that happen either.
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Mel Lindauer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:57 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:45 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:07 pm
You're obviously missing the point here, Doc. Even the online December 2018 version that claims to be YTD (I downloaded it to see) doesn't include all transactions for that year -- it's the same as the paper version. It would be nice if it did. You're apparently aware of that fact, since you talked about how hard and sloppy it was to try to get the information for yourself.
I am not missing the point. What Vanguard is calling the YTD statement has Year to Date data for "Realized gains and losses" and "Income summary" but only December data for "Account overview" and "completed transactions". You want to have all the transactions for the year listed on the so called YTD statement. Maybe once upon a time when Vanguard's mutual fund holding were in a different account from the brokerage account you did get an actual YTD transaction list for the mutual fund part. As far as I can determine Vanguard brokerage account YTD statement never had transactions for the entire year.

You seem to be trying to make the point that Vanguard Brokerage at one time used to have actual YTD transaction on their December statement. As far as I can tell that is not correct for the brokerage account. Once upon a time It may have been true for the Vanguard Mutual fund only accounts. But these are two different companies even though related with different rules from regulars and different IT networks.

I wish that TBM was still paying upwards of 6% a year but my wishing it is not going to make that happen either.
Crazy, but the current YTD statements DO INCLUDE all of the year's transactions for their annuities, so there's no reason they can't do the same for the mutual funds as before, since they're being selective about what they do and don't report. I'm OK with not listing all the trades on the trading platform side (they're not doing it now, so that's obviously OK).
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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:01 pm

To me here's the issue.

Vanguard decided they want to move everyone from their old mutual fund system to their brokerage system. However, in doing so, they neglected to remember that the customer's always right. The brokerage system lacks features that the mutual fund system had. Never was this divulged by Vanguard. My Vanguard rep said everyone would be moving, so it made sense to just get it done, and I did. One by one I found the features that were missing, and I have not been pleased with that.

As far as conversions go, I'd give Vanguard at best a 6 out of 10.

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Re: Vanguard Brokerage Accounts

Post by Eagle33 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:30 pm

Seems that Vanguard is inconsistent or at best trying to decide what to include in our statements as time progresses.

Both of my tIRA and rIRA (mutual fund style accounts) have quarterly statements (Q1, Q2, Q3) that show all transactions for the quarter. The yearly statement at end of year shows all transactions for year.

Spouse has tIRA and rIRA brokerage accounts.
Spouse's rIRA (opened 2017) has monthly statements (months 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11) that show that month's transactions. The quarterly and annual statements only show transactions for that month.
Spouse's tIRA (created from rollover in 2018) has 3 quarterly statements and an annual statement that only show transactions for that quarter (annual = Q4). However, the tIRA had no actual transactions in Oct. or Nov. Maybe brokerage account have no monthly statement provided in moths with no transactions?
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