Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
brandy
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:45 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by brandy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:14 am

-buzz- wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:13 pm
Admittedly, I miss some of my favorite carbs - pizza, chips, potatoes. Maybe when I get to maintenance I can reintroduce some of those in limited amounts.
I've been low carb high fat for some time. My biggest two areas for improvement are portion control and resistance to exercise due to other issues...
Upon reading your post, I had to reply. I'm making my shopping list for casseroles which include pizza toppings, lasagna, pork rinds, faux potato salad, and other goodies. I double the recipes, and after baked and cooled, portion and freeze almost all of it except the faux P salad--it doesn't last long enough to freeze :happy. The pork rinds (I prefer the bbq) are a good stand in for the chips, the others are--to MY taste buds--just tasty, and relatively easy to make. Find The Pizza Toppings recipe at http://genaw.com/lowcarb/pork_recipes.html, the lasagna at http://genaw.com/lowcarb/zucchini_mushroom_lasagna.html.
My Psalad recipe is my favorite potato salad recipe, except instead of using potatoes, I cut cauliflower into bite size chunks, boil, cool, and add whatever else, mayo, onion, mustard, vinegar, sugar, bacon, etc. Then it stays in the fridge until gone, usually within a few days. And then I make more! :mrgreen:
Lots of low carb recipes at that site-http://genaw.com/lowcarb/main_dish_recipes.html

Enjoy! :sharebeer
Edited to add that pizza hut (I think it is) is now selling cauliflower Pizza, and Dominoes may be offering low carb goodies, soon, too. There are cauliflower pizza and other recipes on the net, too.
Last edited by brandy on Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

3-20Characters
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:20 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by 3-20Characters » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:23 am

+1 on the starch solution.
-1 on discipline being the key (see below).

Lots of people lose weight but few manage to have kept it off many years later. Lots of studies on that. How long before you know that it works? 10 years is a good measure, I think.

Mono diets (eating primarily one food) and limiting diets (keto) work because they limit food choices. Probably not a good long term plan for most.

You need a sustainable plan. So if you try any “diet” or exercise plan, ask yourself, “is this sustainable for the rest of my life?” If not, proceed to next plan.

Exercise is health promoting, to be sure. But it’s a poor way to lose weight for most. Lots of studies on this but use your common sense to see the problem. Walk 5 miles, burn 500 calories. Dunkin’ Donuts blueberry muffin, 470 calories. Add coffee with milk and sugar at 150 calories and you’re in the red and it’s not lunch yet.

Restaurant food is loaded with fat and sodium. A chain restaurant meal could have 3x the recommended daily allowance of sodium. Fat is popular now due to keto. 1 gram of fat is more than twice the calories compared to 1g of “evil” carbs.

Some people will tell you that carbs will kill you yet every natural food choice of humans and their ape cousins is primarily composed of carbs. We eat fat sparingly except for small populations living in extreme or isolated conditions. Even then, who we label as meat eaters is rarely true if plants exist in their environment. The Hazda, a Tanzanian tribe of hunter gathers was observed to live mainly off the pickings the women would gather as the men’s hunting success rate was extremely low. So eat lots and lots of unprocessed carbs if you believe that evolution is a thing.

Protein (long chains of amino acids) is needed to build muscle and other tissue and is found in pletntitude in plants. See elephants, rhinos, etc—they only eat plants. What’s that you say? They are so much different from humans so it doesn’t apply. What about a gorilla? A chimp? Chimp = Pound for pound more than twice as strong as a human and DNA is 95-98+% same as humans. So if I were to mimic a diet, I’d start with the chimp diet.

Fiber is a key ingredient to human health, the function of the gut, and satiety. There is none (ZERO) fiber in meat and related foods, only in plants. You want a diet? Get an app, record every food you put in your mouth, and look at your total fiber intake. Average 50+ grams per day and you’ll be a boss! BTW, hazda eat 100-150 grams fiber per day, the average American, less than 20. Chew on that. :D

I have literally dozens of notes saved on fiber and the microbiome and the implications of that combination of factors amaze me. Here’s one snippet.
Study details how high fiber diets make for healthier lives
...For every 8 gram increase in fiber eaten a day, total deaths and incidences of heart disease, type 2 diabetes and bowel cancer fell by 5 to 27 percent, the study said. Protection against stroke and breast cancer also rose.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN1P42W5
If I were to recommend a way of eating, I would recommend that you apply a simple calorie density metric to your food and stick primarily to food that is 700 calories per pound or less.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/calorie-density

Discipline is not a diet plan. It has been said, being hungry is like sitting in a cold room with a coat next to you, and you refuse to put it on. Eventually, most will put the coat on. Instead, eat (1) low calorie density food, (2) eat to satiety.

Good luck.

cmdreset
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:31 am

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by cmdreset » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:08 pm

Many people have already pointed out the answer: Eat less calories than you expend. It is the only overall strategy that works. Relative carbs/fats, eating schedule, fitness trackers, etc. are all tactics.

And read this - it has some of the clearest advice I have seen anywhere
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/wiki/faq-index

Yiewsley
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:58 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Yiewsley » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:19 pm

I use the Lose It app to track what I eat. It gives you calorie guidelines based on what you weigh now and what you want to weigh. You can also track fat, carbs, sodium, etc. It also tracks exercise and connects to several fitness trackers.

Between keeping track of what I eat (no special diet but definitely making healthy choices) and exercising (I use my Apple watch to track), I've lost 45 pounds. No easy feat for a 58 year old woman.

If you go on a special diet, you'll eventually go off it. You need something realistic and sustainable.

shell921
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:13 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by shell921 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:39 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:23 am
+1 on the starch solution.
-1 on discipline being the key (see below).

Lots of people lose weight but few manage to have kept it off many years later. Lots of studies on that. How long before you know that it works? 10 years is a good measure, I think.

Mono diets (eating primarily one food) and limiting diets (keto) work because they limit food choices. Probably not a good long term plan for most.

You need a sustainable plan. So if you try any “diet” or exercise plan, ask yourself, “is this sustainable for the rest of my life?” If not, proceed to next plan.

Exercise is health promoting, to be sure. But it’s a poor way to lose weight for most. Lots of studies on this but use your common sense to see the problem. Walk 5 miles, burn 500 calories. Dunkin’ Donuts blueberry muffin, 470 calories. Add coffee with milk and sugar at 150 calories and you’re in the red and it’s not lunch yet.

Restaurant food is loaded with fat and sodium. A chain restaurant meal could have 3x the recommended daily allowance of sodium. Fat is popular now due to keto. 1 gram of fat is more than twice the calories compared to 1g of “evil” carbs.

Some people will tell you that carbs will kill you yet every natural food choice of humans and their ape cousins is primarily composed of carbs. We eat fat sparingly except for small populations living in extreme or isolated conditions. Even then, who we label as meat eaters is rarely true if plants exist in their environment. The Hazda, a Tanzanian tribe of hunter gathers was observed to live mainly off the pickings the women would gather as the men’s hunting success rate was extremely low. So eat lots and lots of unprocessed carbs if you believe that evolution is a thing.

Protein (long chains of amino acids) is needed to build muscle and other tissue and is found in pletntitude in plants. See elephants, rhinos, etc—they only eat plants. What’s that you say? They are so much different from humans so it doesn’t apply. What about a gorilla? A chimp? Chimp = Pound for pound more than twice as strong as a human and DNA is 95-98+% same as humans. So if I were to mimic a diet, I’d start with the chimp diet.

Fiber is a key ingredient to human health, the function of the gut, and satiety. There is none (ZERO) fiber in meat and related foods, only in plants. You want a diet? Get an app, record every food you put in your mouth, and look at your total fiber intake. Average 50+ grams per day and you’ll be a boss! BTW, hazda eat 100-150 grams fiber per day, the average American, less than 20. Chew on that. :D

I have literally dozens of notes saved on fiber and the microbiome and the implications of that combination of factors amaze me. Here’s one snippet.
Study details how high fiber diets make for healthier lives
...For every 8 gram increase in fiber eaten a day, total deaths and incidences of heart disease, type 2 diabetes and bowel cancer fell by 5 to 27 percent, the study said. Protection against stroke and breast cancer also rose.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN1P42W5
If I were to recommend a way of eating, I would recommend that you apply a simple calorie density metric to your food and stick primarily to food that is 700 calories per pound or less.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/calorie-density

Discipline is not a diet plan. It has been said, being hungry is like sitting in a cold room with a coat next to you, and you refuse to put it on. Eventually, most will put the coat on. Instead, eat (1) low calorie density food, (2) eat to satiety.

Good luck.
Very good !

Dr F talks about nutrient density :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGgeGHU1Bs


shell921
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:13 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by shell921 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Healthy carbs are what keep people healthy!
healthy carbs :

potatoes
beans
corn
brown rice
lentils
quinoa
barley
lentils
whole grain pastas

The "bad," unhealthy carbohydrate foods list includes:
Sodas,
Candies,
All pastries,
Jams and jellies,
Fruit juices and drinks,
Refined grains, like white rice,
Bread and pasta with refined flour,
Most pudding, custards and other sweets,
Cakes, cookies and any sweet bakery products.

Carbohydrates are made by plants and stored in their leaves, stems, roots, and fruits. Plant foods contain both simple and complex carbohydrates in various amounts. Fruits are often more than 90 percent carbohydrate, but most of their carbohydrates are the sweet-tasting simple forms of carbohydrate, such as glucose and fructose. Green and yellow vegetables store most of their calories as complex carbohydrates, but since they contain very few total calories the amount of complex carbohydrate they provide in the diet is small. Whole grains (rice, corn) and the whole grain flours (wheat, rye) and whole grain pastas (wheat, soba) made from them, tubers (potatoes, yams), legumes (beans, peas), and winter squashes (acorn, hubbard) contain large quantities of complex carbohydrates and thus are known as starches. Rice, corn, and other grains, and potatoes typically store about 80 percent of their calories in the form of complex carbohydrates. Beans, peas, and lentils are approximately 70 percent complex carbohydrates.

Usually people think of carbs as fattening because they eat a great deal of fat with those carbs. The body burns the carbs and doesn't need the energy from the fat. The fat just goes into the fat cells with almost no special conversion. Right in...

healthy simple carb: grapes
unhealthy simple carb: white sugar
healthy complex carb: sweet potato, white potato
unhealthy complex carb: french fries

So it's possible to find both simple and complex carbs that are both healthy and unhealthy. It's more important to pay attention to whether food is processed (which bread is, by definition) and how calorie dense it is.

Search for "calorie density" and you'll find lots of info. The short version is that foods increase in calorie density as we go from veggies to fruits to starchy veggies (potatoes, winter squash) to grains to legumes to more processed foods like bread to nuts to oils. The lower on the calorie density scale we eat, the more weight we lose and the healthier we tend to be, assuming enough calories are consumed to get all the nutrients one needs (not something one normally needs to worry about unless there are issues like anorexia).

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timboktoo
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by timboktoo » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:00 pm

Your body knows what you need. Listen to it.

Your body will tell you when you need to eat. When you're not hungry anymore, then you should stop eating, even if you have more food on your plate. That said, take care not to put more on your plate than your intuition says you need, obviously :)

Your body will also tell you sometimes that you need to get up and exercise. So do that right then, when you feel the inclination. I do pushups at my desk at work and I walk up 8 flights of stairs in my building when I feel like I need to do something physical.

As for a workout routine, figure out what you like and just do that daily. I take walks. While walking, I listen to audio books and podcasts. I love walking. It's a great opportunity to be out in nature and think. And you can bring the kids. I also do pull-ups, sit-ups, plank, squats (without weights), bridge and some very simple exercises with a dumbbell every day. The workout takes maybe 10 minutes to do and I do it in the basement, while wearing whatever it is I'm already wearing, so that there's absolutely no excuse not to do it. By the end, I feel great. It's not going to make me beefy, but I'm interested in my health, not my looks.

I'm not very careful about what kinds of foods I put into my body. If I need to lose a lot, then I try to restrict myself in some way, by saying that I can only have 1 treat a day for example. But once I'm at the weight I want to be at, I don't restrict myself at all. I do always listen to those inner voices though. I eat until I am not hungry and I exercise when my body feels sluggish.

I think that with all of this stuff, what matters most is that you figure out what works for you. I have tried being restrictive on what kinds of foods or drinks I have. I've tried making myself go to the gym. But I find that I'm way too unhappy when I have those kinds of restrictions. I had to instead find things that made me happy and do those instead. All of the exercises I named make me feel happy. And eating this way also makes me feel happy, because it's not wasteful and doesn't make me feel like crap. Your body rewards you for behavior it likes with dopamine :) Figure out where that dopamine is and go for it!

Peace.

- Tim

sid hartha
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by sid hartha » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 pm

It's easy in theory. Apply a Boglehead philosophy. Subsist on the bare min but maximize nutritional value.

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MikeWillRetire
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by MikeWillRetire » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Trism wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:51 am
bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:29 am
Trism wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:49 am
delamer wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:30 pm
Trism wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:01 pm
300 calories for breakfast. Egg McMuffin.

560 calories for lunch. Big Mac.

900 calories for dinner. Chick-Fil-A sandwich and fries.

Coffee, diet sodas or water to drink.

I lost 40 pounds eating mainly fast food. There are better, more nutritious ways, of course, but it's really easy to keep track of your intake when the calories are printed right on the menu. And it doesn't take a lot of discipline to get all of your food from a drive-through window.
Did you look at the sodium content in addition to the calorie content?
No. I didn't look at sodium or fat. I didn't count carbs. I didn't avoid high-fructose corn syrup or eschew gluten, or even notice if the food had any nutritional value. I didn't check to see if Wendy's mayonnaise was higher in antioxidants than Burger King's. I didn't buy yoga pants. I didn't fill in the blank, I just lost 40 pounds using calorie info and math.
This worked to lose the weight. What did you do to maintain the weight loss?

This high sodium diet worked in the short run, but in the long run it won't work because you'll be dead of heart disease of some sort.

You have a "two body" problem. 1. How do you lose the weight? There are tons of tricks/gimmicks to do this. 2. How do you maintain your ideal weight over the long haul? This is far tougher. Someone might lose 500 pounds in a year. -10, +10, -10, +10.

If I drink coconut oil for breakfast and eat an avacado for lunch and then have 26 oz of steak for supper (meat only) that might just get you to lose all the weight. Then you return to "normal" eating. The weight slowly comes back. Or maybe quickly comes back.

Very complicated topic. If you can figure out #1 and #2 you can stay at or near your goal weight for the long haul.
This is a laughably simple topic if you will allow it to be.

Nine years later 34 of the 40 pounds are still gone. I cook at home a lot more and continue adding up the calories in what I eat, but now I'm now more likely to write down "grilled pork loin chop" than "McRib."

At the same time I lost all of that weight I also quit smoking cigarettes (2+ packs a day toward the end). I couldn't have done that without Chantix and Wellbutrin, both of which also introduced new and different risks and issues. I don't regret that either.

I lost weight eating garbage and quit smoking by taking drugs. Both very simple, and both very effective for someone who isn't particularly disciplined. No one will convince me that I am not better off.

I get a physical every year and last had routine lab work done on 12/28/18. There are no signs of imminent death because I ate a lot of onion rings in 2009.
Excellent!

theplayer11
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by theplayer11 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:44 pm

Trism wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:01 pm
300 calories for breakfast. Egg McMuffin.

560 calories for lunch. Big Mac.

900 calories for dinner. Chick-Fil-A sandwich and fries.

Coffee, diet sodas or water to drink.

I lost 40 pounds eating mainly fast food. There are better, more nutritious ways, of course, but it's really easy to keep track of your intake when the calories are printed right on the menu. And it doesn't take a lot of discipline to get all of your food from a drive-through window.
sorry, but that is a horrible diet

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VictoriaF
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by VictoriaF » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:06 am

Trism wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:11 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:09 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:51 am
This is a laughably simple topic if you will allow it to be.
No, it is not a simple topic. Weight and appetite are largely controlled by hormones. See for example, "9 Proven Ways to Fix The Hormones That Control Your Weight" https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/9- ... t-hormones .

Victoria
That article concludes with "Fortunately, diet and lifestyle changes can have powerful effects on these hormones."
The diet and lifestyle changes required for optimizing the 9 hormones reviewed in the article are not simple.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

tmcc
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by tmcc » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:29 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:06 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:11 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:09 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:51 am
This is a laughably simple topic if you will allow it to be.
No, it is not a simple topic. Weight and appetite are largely controlled by hormones. See for example, "9 Proven Ways to Fix The Hormones That Control Your Weight" https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/9- ... t-hormones .

Victoria
That article concludes with "Fortunately, diet and lifestyle changes can have powerful effects on these hormones."
The diet and lifestyle changes required for optimizing the 9 hormones reviewed in the article are not simple.

Victoria
No, it's actually pretty simple. Be more active and be conscious of caloric intake, boom done.

Want to be detailed? Start experimenting with dietary fat/carbohydrate sources and quantities.

You don't need to know how the watch works, just read the time

mrc
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by mrc » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:34 am

dm200 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:24 pm
drmirkin.com

nutritionfacts.org
Ewww.
Macs are for those who don’t want to know why their computer works | Linux is for those who do | DOS is for those who want to know why their computer doesn’t work | Windows is for those who don’t

GoldenFinch
Posts: 1910
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by GoldenFinch » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:42 am

theplayer11 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:44 pm
Trism wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:01 pm
300 calories for breakfast. Egg McMuffin.

560 calories for lunch. Big Mac.

900 calories for dinner. Chick-Fil-A sandwich and fries.

Coffee, diet sodas or water to drink.

I lost 40 pounds eating mainly fast food. There are better, more nutritious ways, of course, but it's really easy to keep track of your intake when the calories are printed right on the menu. And it doesn't take a lot of discipline to get all of your food from a drive-through window.
sorry, but that is a horrible diet
But it was temporary and Trism lost 40 pounds and kept 37 off and quit a two pack a day smoking habit. The diet wasn’t ideal (to say the least), but it accomplished a difficult goal that clearly many people struggle with, so hats off to Trism. (Many roads to Dublin!)

Regarding this thread (which I’ve enjoyed reading), there is a good reason why it’s easier to be disciplined with investing, but not with diet: we have to eat, but we don’t have to invest. We save and pay attention to money to the degree we choose to and are interested in doing so, but food is not only necessary daily physiologically it has all of these other components attached to it. Eating tastes good, feels good, is a social activity, has inviting aromas sparking hunger, etc. You can’t ignore it to the degree you can ignore finances. So it makes sense that one can be completely disciplined about finances and still struggle with diet for all sorts of physical and psychological reasons. Anyway, the posts in this thread offer some great advice and a lot of motivation for staying on track with or implementing good habits. I was just surprised there weren’t more posts about oatmeal which seems to be the most popular suggestion in all the other Boglehead threads about weight loss. :happy

craimund
Posts: 102
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Location: Virginia

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by craimund » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:48 am

shell921 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:48 pm
Healthy carbs are what keep people healthy!
healthy carbs :

potatoes
beans
corn
brown rice
lentils
quinoa
barley
lentils
whole grain pastas

The "bad," unhealthy carbohydrate foods list includes:
Sodas,
Candies,
All pastries,
Jams and jellies,
Fruit juices and drinks,
Refined grains, like white rice,
Bread and pasta with refined flour,
Most pudding, custards and other sweets,
Cakes, cookies and any sweet bakery products.

Carbohydrates are made by plants and stored in their leaves, stems, roots, and fruits. Plant foods contain both simple and complex carbohydrates in various amounts. Fruits are often more than 90 percent carbohydrate, but most of their carbohydrates are the sweet-tasting simple forms of carbohydrate, such as glucose and fructose. Green and yellow vegetables store most of their calories as complex carbohydrates, but since they contain very few total calories the amount of complex carbohydrate they provide in the diet is small. Whole grains (rice, corn) and the whole grain flours (wheat, rye) and whole grain pastas (wheat, soba) made from them, tubers (potatoes, yams), legumes (beans, peas), and winter squashes (acorn, hubbard) contain large quantities of complex carbohydrates and thus are known as starches. Rice, corn, and other grains, and potatoes typically store about 80 percent of their calories in the form of complex carbohydrates. Beans, peas, and lentils are approximately 70 percent complex carbohydrates.

Usually people think of carbs as fattening because they eat a great deal of fat with those carbs. The body burns the carbs and doesn't need the energy from the fat. The fat just goes into the fat cells with almost no special conversion. Right in...

healthy simple carb: grapes
unhealthy simple carb: white sugar
healthy complex carb: sweet potato, white potato
unhealthy complex carb: french fries

So it's possible to find both simple and complex carbs that are both healthy and unhealthy. It's more important to pay attention to whether food is processed (which bread is, by definition) and how calorie dense it is.

Search for "calorie density" and you'll find lots of info. The short version is that foods increase in calorie density as we go from veggies to fruits to starchy veggies (potatoes, winter squash) to grains to legumes to more processed foods like bread to nuts to oils. The lower on the calorie density scale we eat, the more weight we lose and the healthier we tend to be, assuming enough calories are consumed to get all the nutrients one needs (not something one normally needs to worry about unless there are issues like anorexia).
Dietary fat isn't converted more easily to body fat than carbohydrates. In fact, carbohydrates are more likely to cause wright gain by causing an increase in insulin. The only "good" carbohydrate is fiber which doesn't spike insulin levels. This is the basis of the various low carb diets which are more effective in reducing weight than low fat diets. Potatoes, corn, wheat and pasta (even whole grain pasta) have high levels of net carbs. Check the box. Better to eat high fiber, low net carb vegetables like the cruciferous vegetables (cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts), carrots and avoid potatoes, pasta, bread and corn.

https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine ... n-weight#1
"When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose"-Bob Dylan 1965. "When you think that you've lost everything, you find out you can always lose a little more"-Dylan 1997

3-20Characters
Posts: 617
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by 3-20Characters » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:38 am

craimund wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:48 am
shell921 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:48 pm
Healthy carbs are what keep people healthy!
healthy carbs :

potatoes
beans
corn
brown rice
lentils
quinoa
barley
lentils
whole grain pastas

The "bad," unhealthy carbohydrate foods list includes:
Sodas,
Candies,
All pastries,
Jams and jellies,
Fruit juices and drinks,
Refined grains, like white rice,
Bread and pasta with refined flour,
Most pudding, custards and other sweets,
Cakes, cookies and any sweet bakery products.

Carbohydrates are made by plants and stored in their leaves, stems, roots, and fruits. Plant foods contain both simple and complex carbohydrates in various amounts. Fruits are often more than 90 percent carbohydrate, but most of their carbohydrates are the sweet-tasting simple forms of carbohydrate, such as glucose and fructose. Green and yellow vegetables store most of their calories as complex carbohydrates, but since they contain very few total calories the amount of complex carbohydrate they provide in the diet is small. Whole grains (rice, corn) and the whole grain flours (wheat, rye) and whole grain pastas (wheat, soba) made from them, tubers (potatoes, yams), legumes (beans, peas), and winter squashes (acorn, hubbard) contain large quantities of complex carbohydrates and thus are known as starches. Rice, corn, and other grains, and potatoes typically store about 80 percent of their calories in the form of complex carbohydrates. Beans, peas, and lentils are approximately 70 percent complex carbohydrates.

Usually people think of carbs as fattening because they eat a great deal of fat with those carbs. The body burns the carbs and doesn't need the energy from the fat. The fat just goes into the fat cells with almost no special conversion. Right in...

healthy simple carb: grapes
unhealthy simple carb: white sugar
healthy complex carb: sweet potato, white potato
unhealthy complex carb: french fries

So it's possible to find both simple and complex carbs that are both healthy and unhealthy. It's more important to pay attention to whether food is processed (which bread is, by definition) and how calorie dense it is.

Search for "calorie density" and you'll find lots of info. The short version is that foods increase in calorie density as we go from veggies to fruits to starchy veggies (potatoes, winter squash) to grains to legumes to more processed foods like bread to nuts to oils. The lower on the calorie density scale we eat, the more weight we lose and the healthier we tend to be, assuming enough calories are consumed to get all the nutrients one needs (not something one normally needs to worry about unless there are issues like anorexia).
Dietary fat isn't converted more easily to body fat than carbohydrates. In fact, carbohydrates are more likely to cause wright gain by causing an increase in insulin. The only "good" carbohydrate is fiber which doesn't spike insulin levels. This is the basis of the various low carb diets which are more effective in reducing weight than low fat diets. Potatoes, corn, wheat and pasta (even whole grain pasta) have high levels of net carbs. Check the box. Better to eat high fiber, low net carb vegetables like the cruciferous vegetables (cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts), carrots and avoid potatoes, pasta, bread and corn.

https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine ... n-weight#1
Argh!
I’m sorry but this is terrible advice because the enemy of the good is the perfect. No one will argue that cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage and brussel sprouts are healthy, but it’s wrong and dangerous to tell people that potatoes are fattening because of the god-%$&* insulin hypothesis which is just plain BS. I’d post links that disprove it but the warrior army of Paleolithic diet fanatics have enough fake news blogs to “debunk” any study 100 times over.

People don’t get fat from eating potatoes. They get fat from eating french fries (oil-soaked strips) and baked potatoes loaded with butter or sour cream (i.e., fat!). I ordered a plain baked potato at a restaurant the other day and they somehow managed to get oil all over it. Oil is the most calorie dense food on the planet. Add some sour cream or butter to that and you have a time activated fat bomb in your body.
Penn Jillette Loses Over 100 Pounds on Potato Diet - Penn & Teller Magician Release New Book
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health ... tato-diet/

shell921
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:13 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by shell921 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:00 am

3-20Characters wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:38 am
craimund wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:48 am
shell921 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:48 pm
Healthy carbs are what keep people healthy!
healthy carbs :

potatoes
beans
corn
brown rice
lentils
quinoa
barley
lentils
whole grain pastas

The "bad," unhealthy carbohydrate foods list includes:
Sodas,
Candies,
All pastries,
Jams and jellies,
Fruit juices and drinks,
Refined grains, like white rice,
Bread and pasta with refined flour,
Most pudding, custards and other sweets,
Cakes, cookies and any sweet bakery products.

Carbohydrates are made by plants and stored in their leaves, stems, roots, and fruits. Plant foods contain both simple and complex carbohydrates in various amounts. Fruits are often more than 90 percent carbohydrate, but most of their carbohydrates are the sweet-tasting simple forms of carbohydrate, such as glucose and fructose. Green and yellow vegetables store most of their calories as complex carbohydrates, but since they contain very few total calories the amount of complex carbohydrate they provide in the diet is small. Whole grains (rice, corn) and the whole grain flours (wheat, rye) and whole grain pastas (wheat, soba) made from them, tubers (potatoes, yams), legumes (beans, peas), and winter squashes (acorn, hubbard) contain large quantities of complex carbohydrates and thus are known as starches. Rice, corn, and other grains, and potatoes typically store about 80 percent of their calories in the form of complex carbohydrates. Beans, peas, and lentils are approximately 70 percent complex carbohydrates.

Usually people think of carbs as fattening because they eat a great deal of fat with those carbs. The body burns the carbs and doesn't need the energy from the fat. The fat just goes into the fat cells with almost no special conversion. Right in...

healthy simple carb: grapes
unhealthy simple carb: white sugar
healthy complex carb: sweet potato, white potato
unhealthy complex carb: french fries

So it's possible to find both simple and complex carbs that are both healthy and unhealthy. It's more important to pay attention to whether food is processed (which bread is, by definition) and how calorie dense it is.

Search for "calorie density" and you'll find lots of info. The short version is that foods increase in calorie density as we go from veggies to fruits to starchy veggies (potatoes, winter squash) to grains to legumes to more processed foods like bread to nuts to oils. The lower on the calorie density scale we eat, the more weight we lose and the healthier we tend to be, assuming enough calories are consumed to get all the nutrients one needs (not something one normally needs to worry about unless there are issues like anorexia).
Dietary fat isn't converted more easily to body fat than carbohydrates. In fact, carbohydrates are more likely to cause wright gain by causing an increase in insulin. The only "good" carbohydrate is fiber which doesn't spike insulin levels. This is the basis of the various low carb diets which are more effective in reducing weight than low fat diets. Potatoes, corn, wheat and pasta (even whole grain pasta) have high levels of net carbs. Check the box. Better to eat high fiber, low net carb vegetables like the cruciferous vegetables (cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts), carrots and avoid potatoes, pasta, bread and corn.

https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine ... n-weight#1
Argh!
I’m sorry but this is terrible advice because the enemy of the good is the perfect. No one will argue that cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage and brussel sprouts are healthy, but it’s wrong and dangerous to tell people that potatoes are fattening because of the god-%$&* insulin hypothesis which is just plain BS. I’d post links that disprove it but the warrior army of Paleolithic diet fanatics have enough fake news blogs to “debunk” any study 100 times over.

People don’t get fat from eating potatoes. They get fat from eating french fries (oil-soaked strips) and baked potatoes loaded with butter or sour cream (i.e., fat!). I ordered a plain baked potato at a restaurant the other day and they somehow managed to get oil all over it. Oil is the most calorie dense food on the planet. Add some sour cream or butter to that and you have a time activated fat bomb in your body.
Penn Jillette Loses Over 100 Pounds on Potato Diet - Penn & Teller Magician Release New Book
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health ... tato-diet/
3-20Characters is correct- oil is the culprit not healthy carbs.

In Dec of 2012 I got tied up for 20 min on the phone with a registered nurse – this was a nurse that our health insurance provided
to call and check how my husband–who was pre-diabetic at that time– was doing.
very frustrating call. She kept trying to tell me starches are not good for
people who are trying to reverse diabetes. I told her we do not eat refined starch or carbs that are refined or simple carbs like cornflakes or donuts. I said we eat whole unprocessed starches like oatmeal, beans, brown rice, corn and potatoes with no butter fat or cheese on the potatoes. she was supposed to be helping people with diabetes and yet she had never heard of dr john mc dougall or the starch based diet. i said dr mc dougall is an internist who has written several books and been practicing medicine for over 30 years. he gets hundreds of diabetics off insulin & reverses heart disease with his starch based diet plan.
I said we both follow an unrefined, unprocessed, high carbohydrate, lower fat, very high fiber, and plant based diet & we both have much better health. I said our diet is based on fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, “intact” whole grains, starchy vegetables and legumes. It is not only very healthy; it is also very effective for weight loss/management, diabetes and heart disease. It is low in calorie density so if you eat this way you can fill up without overeating and not worry about being hungry. In addition, it is very high in nutrient density, so you will be optimizing your nutrient intake at the same time. I did not need to worry about weight like hubby did so I could/can eat more nuts, bread, pasta and avocados than
he could. I told her hubby lost 40 pounds, got his blood sugars controlled and had a 145 cholesterol and is off statin drugs and BP meds. She almost did not know what to say.

after i told her how good hubby was doing she said oh that's great or something and then she changed the subject
to what medications was he still on and did he have any symptoms of low blood sugar like weakness, fatigue and lightheadedness.

dr john mcdougall has hundreds of success stories of people reversing type 2 diabetes and they eat healthy carbs
and plenty of potatoes without butter or oil or cheese or sour cream.
Here are just 2:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... eksouzian/

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... deo/elena/

randomguy
Posts: 8133
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by randomguy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:07 am

shell921 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:00 am

3-20Characters is correct- oil is the culprit not healthy carbs.

In Dec of 2012 I got tied up for 20 min on the phone with a registered nurse – this was a nurse that our health insurance provided
to call and check how my husband–who was pre-diabetic at that time– was doing.
very frustrating call. She kept trying to tell me starches are not good for
people who are trying to reverse diabetes. I told her we do not eat refined starch or carbs that are refined or simple carbs like cornflakes or donuts. I said we eat whole unprocessed starches like oatmeal, beans, brown rice, corn and potatoes with no butter fat or cheese on the potatoes. she was supposed to be helping people with diabetes and yet she had never heard of dr john mc dougall or the starch based diet. i said dr mc dougall is an internist who has written several books and been practicing medicine for over 30 years. he gets hundreds of diabetics off insulin & reverses heart disease with his starch based diet plan.
I said we both follow an unrefined, unprocessed, high carbohydrate, lower fat, very high fiber, and plant based diet & we both have much better health. I said our diet is based on fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, “intact” whole grains, starchy vegetables and legumes. It is not only very healthy; it is also very effective for weight loss/management, diabetes and heart disease. It is low in calorie density so if you eat this way you can fill up without overeating and not worry about being hungry. In addition, it is very high in nutrient density, so you will be optimizing your nutrient intake at the same time. I did not need to worry about weight like hubby did so I could/can eat more nuts, bread, pasta and avocados than
he could. I told her hubby lost 40 pounds, got his blood sugars controlled and had a 145 cholesterol and is off statin drugs and BP meds. She almost did not know what to say.

after i told her how good hubby was doing she said oh that's great or something and then she changed the subject
to what medications was he still on and did he have any symptoms of low blood sugar like weakness, fatigue and lightheadedness.

dr john mcdougall has hundreds of success stories of people reversing type 2 diabetes and they eat healthy carbs
and plenty of potatoes without butter or oil or cheese or sour cream.
Here are just 2:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... eksouzian/

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... deo/elena/
An internist got just about the same amount of training in diet as I did in engineering:) If you look at the diets you will find that anything work and you will find various guru's that can point to 100s of people who have had success with their plan. People do low carb, low fat. Some eat 2 big meals a day and fast for 16 hours. Others eat 8 small meals and never go more than 2 hours without eating. And so on. There is no magic out there that works for everyone. You can look at the various meta diet studies and no diet are universally beter. Everything gets about the same results with slightly different tweaks on which health markers change.

Losing weight is all about calorie deficits. That is easy to say. How to get there is hard. There are often a couple hundred easy calories (soda, wine, that muffin in the morning, 300 calories of salad dressing, box of oreo cookies, pint of B&J,...) but for most people that isn't enough to get them down to where they want to be.

a) as people point out a 500 calorie muffin is a lot of exercise. At the same time when your eating 2k calories/day, getting to a 1k deficit by cutting your food to 1k is almost impossible to maintain. Exercising for an 60-90 mins isn't. Or exercising for 45 mins and cutting 500 calories.

b) Some people adapt well to eating in a 8 hour window. Others do better by never getting really hungry.

c) Same thing with low carb versus low fat. And you can do perfectly fine with a balanced diet.

And so on. You need to figure out what you can and can not do. The one thing that a lot of people do find to help is logging. Do that for a couple months you might learn your supposed 2k calorie diet is really closer to 3k

theplayer11
Posts: 843
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by theplayer11 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:17 am

I lost 40 lbs 5 years ago and have kept it off. My method was simple, eat healthy foods and healthy snacks between meals, never wait until hungry. I exercise some, but it was the diet change that made the big difference for me. Having a wife that cooks only healthy meals is a huge plus :D

stan1
Posts: 7334
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by stan1 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:09 pm

We've found we have to go back to the root cause to treat the symptom. That's grocery shopping, where we choose to eat out, and getting out of our seats to do something. Some strategies that have helped us:

1) We were both able to eat whatever we wanted without gaining a lot of weight until we were in our 50s/60s. Then we had to make some changes after weight started to accumulate and one heart attack. We were never "overweight" but lifestyle was creeping up on us. We realized we had to make a change.

2) When grocery shopping for more than one everyone needs to be on the same eating plan. Can't have sugary foods or drinks in the house or a tub of mac and cheese in the pantry. If cookies are a treat for the kids buy them occasionally. Instead of eating a mint or piece of chocolate after dinner I started brushing my teeth more regularly (of course should have done that all along).

3) Drink only plain water or black coffee/tea. Buy bottled water if you don't like the taste of your tap water. One alcoholic drink when with friends not alone at home. Nothing else. Do not keep alcohol in the house. This has the added benefit of saving a lot of money. Prepared drinks are expensive! Spouse consumes over a thousand dollars per year on diet sodas and flavored water (home and restaurant). Fortunately I don't like flavored drinks. If I did we'd probably have to have a locked cupboard in our kitchen.

4) When cooking for more than one everyone needs to be on the same eating plan. If the person doing the cooking is still serving a 2000 calorie dinner to each person the people eating it will gain weight. Don't make a 4 portion meal if two people are going to eat it in one sitting. If you put half of it in the refrigerator for leftovers but eat the leftovers as a late night snack don't make the extra portion.

5) +1 on fitness gamification using a step counter or fitness tracker. You can call me weak but closing my rings and keeping my streaks going helps me. Exercise is not something that comes natural to me. There are people who it does come naturally to and I think they have a hard time understanding that not everyone is wired that way.

6) Walk at lunch time at work to help get the steps in. If you have kids go to bed or get up 60 minutes later or earlier than you do now to make time for yourself. Try it without worrying about hours you spend sleeping. Listen to your body after a few weeks. Do not recommend walking while trying to text or read email on a phone (not safe even if the risk is just uneven sidewalks not cars). I had to change job duties at my employer to be able to do this more reliably.

7) When we eat out we go to ethnic restaurants that serve smaller single plate meals (meats and vegetables together with a lot of spices) rather than multi course meals with appetizers, main, and dessert. No alcohol unless with friends then one drink. We've found that less expensive takeout restaurants sometimes have larger portions than sit down restaurants so we sometimes choose to pay more for sit down service. To be honest we aren't real good about taking leftovers home and try to avoid that. We both were taught by parents to "clean our plates because there are children starving in Africa" and decades later we still have that psychological block. We've stopped fighting it.

harrington
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:09 am

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by harrington » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:53 pm

After a visit to the Dr. in 2017 and weighing close to 250 pounds and being told I was a heart attack waiting to happen I decided to change my lifestyle and I became a vegan and started walking every morning. In 8 months I lost 80 pounds and I have kept it off. I feel like a new person and will never go back to the way I was. I now walk between between 2-5 miles a day every morning. I don't believe in diets. Eat less food and eat clean. My hip and knees no longer ache and my blood pressure is normal and my glucose is normal. I was killing myself with food.

craimund
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:39 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by craimund » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:38 am
craimund wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:48 am
shell921 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:48 pm
Healthy carbs are what keep people healthy!
healthy carbs :

potatoes
beans
corn
brown rice
lentils
quinoa
barley
lentils
whole grain pastas

The "bad," unhealthy carbohydrate foods list includes:
Sodas,
Candies,
All pastries,
Jams and jellies,
Fruit juices and drinks,
Refined grains, like white rice,
Bread and pasta with refined flour,
Most pudding, custards and other sweets,
Cakes, cookies and any sweet bakery products.

Carbohydrates are made by plants and stored in their leaves, stems, roots, and fruits. Plant foods contain both simple and complex carbohydrates in various amounts. Fruits are often more than 90 percent carbohydrate, but most of their carbohydrates are the sweet-tasting simple forms of carbohydrate, such as glucose and fructose. Green and yellow vegetables store most of their calories as complex carbohydrates, but since they contain very few total calories the amount of complex carbohydrate they provide in the diet is small. Whole grains (rice, corn) and the whole grain flours (wheat, rye) and whole grain pastas (wheat, soba) made from them, tubers (potatoes, yams), legumes (beans, peas), and winter squashes (acorn, hubbard) contain large quantities of complex carbohydrates and thus are known as starches. Rice, corn, and other grains, and potatoes typically store about 80 percent of their calories in the form of complex carbohydrates. Beans, peas, and lentils are approximately 70 percent complex carbohydrates.

Usually people think of carbs as fattening because they eat a great deal of fat with those carbs. The body burns the carbs and doesn't need the energy from the fat. The fat just goes into the fat cells with almost no special conversion. Right in...

healthy simple carb: grapes
unhealthy simple carb: white sugar
healthy complex carb: sweet potato, white potato
unhealthy complex carb: french fries

So it's possible to find both simple and complex carbs that are both healthy and unhealthy. It's more important to pay attention to whether food is processed (which bread is, by definition) and how calorie dense it is.

Search for "calorie density" and you'll find lots of info. The short version is that foods increase in calorie density as we go from veggies to fruits to starchy veggies (potatoes, winter squash) to grains to legumes to more processed foods like bread to nuts to oils. The lower on the calorie density scale we eat, the more weight we lose and the healthier we tend to be, assuming enough calories are consumed to get all the nutrients one needs (not something one normally needs to worry about unless there are issues like anorexia).
Dietary fat isn't converted more easily to body fat than carbohydrates. In fact, carbohydrates are more likely to cause wright gain by causing an increase in insulin. The only "good" carbohydrate is fiber which doesn't spike insulin levels. This is the basis of the various low carb diets which are more effective in reducing weight than low fat diets. Potatoes, corn, wheat and pasta (even whole grain pasta) have high levels of net carbs. Check the box. Better to eat high fiber, low net carb vegetables like the cruciferous vegetables (cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts), carrots and avoid potatoes, pasta, bread and corn.

https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine ... n-weight#1
Argh!
I’m sorry but this is terrible advice because the enemy of the good is the perfect. No one will argue that cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage and brussel sprouts are healthy, but it’s wrong and dangerous to tell people that potatoes are fattening because of the god-%$&* insulin hypothesis which is just plain BS. I’d post links that disprove it but the warrior army of Paleolithic diet fanatics have enough fake news blogs to “debunk” any study 100 times over.

People don’t get fat from eating potatoes. They get fat from eating french fries (oil-soaked strips) and baked potatoes loaded with butter or sour cream (i.e., fat!). I ordered a plain baked potato at a restaurant the other day and they somehow managed to get oil all over it. Oil is the most calorie dense food on the planet. Add some sour cream or butter to that and you have a time activated fat bomb in your body.
Penn Jillette Loses Over 100 Pounds on Potato Diet - Penn & Teller Magician Release New Book
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health ... tato-diet/
I would rather eat cauliflower than a potato without butter or sour cream or fried in oil. I love broccoli. Not sure how is an unattainable "perfect" diet. Pretty sure most potatoes are consumed in the form of french fries, potato chips, baked potatoes with butter and/or sour cream or mashed potatoes with generous amounts of butter and lots of salt. All of which are unhealthy.

I'm sure people can lose weight eating only potatoes. People have lost weight eating only fast food.

Agreed that the worst thing for weight loss is a high carb and high fat diet. Low carb has worked well for me in terms of weight loss. There was a noticeable shift in my metabolism when I adhered to it and the weight almost melted off. I have also lost weight on a low fat diet. However, I was hungry much of the time. YMMV
"When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose"-Bob Dylan 1965. "When you think that you've lost everything, you find out you can always lose a little more"-Dylan 1997

User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 8446
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm

seligsoj wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Any bogleheads any diet wisdom? I've always been disciplined with saving money but can't seem to apply the same discipline to my diet. I have tried weight watchers, Jenny Craig, beach body, keto, my fitness pal...I lack discipline and get hungry. Just this week I decided to start eating the same thing for breakfast and lunch (all healthy, clean foods) and prepping these meals ahead of time. I love exercising but can't always squeeze it in at night (working full time and have 2 young kids). I'm not terribly overweight but would look and feel better if I lost 15 pounds
Examine your goals. Is your goal really to look and feel better? Your goal is not minimizing mortality. Perhaps losing 15 pounds would make you feel worse. We probably naturally maintain the weight that in some sense optimizes our feelings overall.

Based on a recent study, a BMI in the range 22.5 to 25 minimizes mortality. If 15 pounds puts you below 25 then it's more than you need to minimize mortality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806201/

Examining my own goals, I want to lose 9 pounds, but this does nothing for my mortality. I am at my setpoint so maybe that is where I feel best. My opinion that I would look better at a lower weight is probably just some kind of common psychological self-image thing.

livesoft
Posts: 67835
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by livesoft » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:54 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm
Based on a recent study, a BMI in the range 22.5 to 25 minimizes mortality. If 15 pounds puts you below 25 then it's more than you need to minimize mortality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806201/
I read the article and some of its references and I did not come away with the conclusion you stated.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

shell921
Posts: 320
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by shell921 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:32 pm

Most people think of carbs as bread and donuts. Those are UNHEALTHY carbs! On the Dr John Mc Dougall forum recently they were discussing AD & other dementias and cognitive impairments. They were saying that cognitive impairment is exceptionally rare even among elderly people in traditional plant-based, high starch cultures around the globe (rural Asia, Central-Africa, South-America, etc). People in Okinawa were famous for their fully functional old people. Who are not overweight or obese like so many Americans are! Their traditional diet was 85% carbs - mostly sweet potatoes and brown rice- but without butter, oil, sour cream or cheese-!!!!

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 18893
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by VictoriaF » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:53 pm

tmcc wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:29 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:06 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:11 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:09 am
Trism wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:51 am
This is a laughably simple topic if you will allow it to be.
No, it is not a simple topic. Weight and appetite are largely controlled by hormones. See for example, "9 Proven Ways to Fix The Hormones That Control Your Weight" https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/9- ... t-hormones .

Victoria
That article concludes with "Fortunately, diet and lifestyle changes can have powerful effects on these hormones."
The diet and lifestyle changes required for optimizing the 9 hormones reviewed in the article are not simple.

Victoria
No, it's actually pretty simple. Be more active and be conscious of caloric intake, boom done.

Want to be detailed? Start experimenting with dietary fat/carbohydrate sources and quantities.

You don't need to know how the watch works, just read the time
Watch operation is not an appropriate analogy, because a watch is an external system and your body is an internal system you control. Instead, consider an analogy with personal finance.

In personal finance, the high-level principles are:
- spend less than you make
- invest your savings prudently

In practice, there are many nuances in how you make money, how you spend money, and how you invest money--that make all the difference.

In personal weight, the high-level principle is:
- expend more energy than the energy you put in.

In practice, the types of energy you put in, the ways your body processes the energy you put in, the effects of various hormones, the timing of food consumption, the effect of sleep, the nature of the physical activity, and other factors make great difference.

A discussion can start with high-level principles, but the meaning is in the details of practical approaches.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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HomerJ
Posts: 13217
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by HomerJ » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:31 pm

craimund wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm
I would rather eat cauliflower than a potato without butter or sour cream or fried in oil. I love broccoli. Not sure how is an unattainable "perfect" diet.
Like others have said, everyone is different.

If I tried to switch to cauliflower and broccoli, I'd fail on that diet after 3 hours. Maybe 1 hour.

It's great that you like the taste of certain foods. Not everyone does. No one wants to told to "give up everything you like and switch to eating only these foods". Sure, I absolutely believe you guys are right, the research is right, and plant-based and no processed food is the healthiest.

Oh well.

I eat the same crap I've always eaten. Just less of it. Two slices of pizza instead of four. One hamburger instead of two.

Still drink a ton of Diet Coke, and beers while watching football.

That works for me. Lost a lot of weight and I'm keeping it off.

A plant-based diet is not going to work for me. But it may work for others. So it's good that you bring it up on this thread.
Last edited by HomerJ on Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The J stands for Jay

H-Town
Posts: 1963
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by H-Town » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:36 pm

seligsoj wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Any bogleheads any diet wisdom? I've always been disciplined with saving money but can't seem to apply the same discipline to my diet. I have tried weight watchers, Jenny Craig, beach body, keto, my fitness pal...I lack discipline and get hungry. Just this week I decided to start eating the same thing for breakfast and lunch (all healthy, clean foods) and prepping these meals ahead of time. I love exercising but can't always squeeze it in at night (working full time and have 2 young kids). I'm not terribly overweight but would look and feel better if I lost 15 pounds
You're on the right track. Taking care of your health is the most profitable investment you can make.

I recommend the book "The Power of Habit".

For me to stay healthy and athletic, it's just a matter of habits. I take the thinking part out of the equation.

randomguy
Posts: 8133
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by randomguy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:05 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:54 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm
Based on a recent study, a BMI in the range 22.5 to 25 minimizes mortality. If 15 pounds puts you below 25 then it's more than you need to minimize mortality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806201/
I read the article and some of its references and I did not come away with the conclusion you stated.
Population studies should pretty much always be ignored when looking for personal action items. In this specific case remember BMI is an incredibly crude tool. It is easy to calculate so everyone uses it and over whole populations things sort of work out but when looking at individuals, you get absurd results where things like losing 10lbs of muscle or calcium depleting your bones make you healthier. It definitely isn't a number that you should be trying to optimize for.

For an individual things like direct body fat (you can have a BMI of 24 and be can have the BF of 32% that makes you obese if you are small framed woman and have no muscle. Or you can have a BMI of like 28 with like 15% BF if you hit the gym and have built 25lbs of muscle over the years) work a lot better. Waist circumference also is a much better correlating stat if you want something even easier to measure. And obviously all the various bio markers and the like are much better. If your BMI is 24 and your cholesterol is high, you have a problem. If your out of breath after a flight of stairs, it doesn't matter what your BMI is, you have a health issue.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Momus » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:08 pm

Just eat less. Drop the calories and the weight will be gone. There is no magic pill.

Drop the eating frequency from 3 to 2 to 1. I eat once a day whatever I want and maintain 175 lb. 0 hunger once you get used to intermittent fasting. Human body is amazing.

There are people who do 7-14 days fast to drop weight quick. Sounds extreme but it's really easy to do.
Example: https://youtu.be/jO226GUgwLY

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Yellowhouse » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:13 pm

I'm extremely delighted to report a loss of 25 pounds in 38 days on the Keto diet. It is legit and I feel good!! I'm eating under 40g of carbs per day and that's the main nutritional factor i keep up with...it keeps things simple.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by tadamsmar » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:36 am

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:54 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm
Based on a recent study, a BMI in the range 22.5 to 25 minimizes mortality. If 15 pounds puts you below 25 then it's more than you need to minimize mortality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806201/
I read the article and some of its references and I did not come away with the conclusion you stated.
Maybe this will help, not sure what you’re objection is. Weight loss can change life length in either direction, but usually makes no difference. People want to think their desire to lose weight is more than a choice anomaly:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psycho ... life%3famp

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by livesoft » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:43 am

As a geriatrician I worry when one of my patients starts to lose weight and I make every effort to try to reverse that trend while looking for an illness that is not otherwise manifest.
That's the takeaway from the Psychology Today opinion piece.
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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by tadamsmar » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:20 am

livesoft wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:43 am
As a geriatrician I worry when one of my patients starts to lose weight and I make every effort to try to reverse that trend while looking for an illness that is not otherwise manifest.
That's the takeaway from the Psychology Today opinion piece.
Bogleheads should add the following to their IPS: “If thou art beyond three score years and thou commences to lose weight then thou shalt consider commencing thy Social Security.”
Last edited by tadamsmar on Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by 3-20Characters » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:34 am

livesoft wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:43 am
As a geriatrician I worry when one of my patients starts to lose weight and I make every effort to try to reverse that trend while looking for an illness that is not otherwise manifest.
That's the takeaway from the Psychology Today opinion piece.
In the elderly, sudden weigh loss can be a sign of illness. Additionaly, it’s thoguht protective for the elderly to carry a few extra pounds due to likely illness and hospitalization which could bring about further weigh loss and weaken the patient. This does not nullify the BMI suggestions and in a country reaching previously unheard of obesity levels, perhaps it should not be our primary concern?
Obesity in America: CDC releases gif of epidemic over time
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _time.html
42% of Americans May Be Obese by 2030
https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/2012050 ... -by-2030#1

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by wiserabbit » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:28 am

“Form follows function”

Try to chase functional goals instead. I never cared what my weight is. What I did care of was my ability to do 50 push-ups/10 pull-ups/run 10km at any point of my adult life.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Casper » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:32 am

For people who track calories, how do you handle foods where there's no reliable way to know how many calories there are? Occasionally I get motivated to track my calories, but then I immediately hit a food where I can't tell, and I get frustrated. Example: For lunch I want to have a serving of an egg casserole my wife made. It's a mix of eggs, broccoli, peppers, and cheese. How do I know the calories in that? Am I supposed to look at each ingredient and how much is in the whole casserole, then calculate my pro rata share?

Tracking calories always makes me want to eat more packaged food, because at least you can know exactly how many calories there are. But I know that's not a good thing either.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by delamer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:45 am

Casper wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:32 am
For people who track calories, how do you handle foods where there's no reliable way to know how many calories there are? Occasionally I get motivated to track my calories, but then I immediately hit a food where I can't tell, and I get frustrated. Example: For lunch I want to have a serving of an egg casserole my wife made. It's a mix of eggs, broccoli, peppers, and cheese. How do I know the calories in that? Am I supposed to look at each ingredient and how much is in the whole casserole, then calculate my pro rata share?

Tracking calories always makes me want to eat more packaged food, because at least you can know exactly how many calories there are. But I know that's not a good thing either.
It can be a pain, especially for a one-time choice like at a restaurant.

But for your example, with something you eat regularly, what you describe us exactly how I’ve done it.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by mokaThought » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am

seligsoj wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Any bogleheads any diet wisdom? I've always been disciplined with saving money but can't seem to apply the same discipline to my diet. I have tried weight watchers, Jenny Craig, beach body, keto, my fitness pal...I lack discipline and get hungry. Just this week I decided to start eating the same thing for breakfast and lunch (all healthy, clean foods) and prepping these meals ahead of time. I love exercising but can't always squeeze it in at night (working full time and have 2 young kids). I'm not terribly overweight but would look and feel better if I lost 15 pounds
Try Huel. It's the index fund of food. :wink:
October: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August, and February. —Mark Twain

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by 3-20Characters » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:54 am

Casper wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:32 am
For people who track calories, how do you handle foods where there's no reliable way to know how many calories there are? Occasionally I get motivated to track my calories, but then I immediately hit a food where I can't tell, and I get frustrated. Example: For lunch I want to have a serving of an egg casserole my wife made. It's a mix of eggs, broccoli, peppers, and cheese. How do I know the calories in that? Am I supposed to look at each ingredient and how much is in the whole casserole, then calculate my pro rata share?

Tracking calories always makes me want to eat more packaged food, because at least you can know exactly how many calories there are. But I know that's not a good thing either.
See calorie density comments above. Tracking calories with exact precision is a losing strategy but it’s handy to know basic numbers. If it’s something you eat regularly, make the extra effort to find out as it will have a greater impact. There are databases out there that most apps pull from and they include many packaged and restaurant foods. When I want to look up any specs (rarely) I use this.

https://cronometer.com

There’s an app for it but I just use the website.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by randomguy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:08 pm

delamer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:45 am
Casper wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:32 am
For people who track calories, how do you handle foods where there's no reliable way to know how many calories there are? Occasionally I get motivated to track my calories, but then I immediately hit a food where I can't tell, and I get frustrated. Example: For lunch I want to have a serving of an egg casserole my wife made. It's a mix of eggs, broccoli, peppers, and cheese. How do I know the calories in that? Am I supposed to look at each ingredient and how much is in the whole casserole, then calculate my pro rata share?

Tracking calories always makes me want to eat more packaged food, because at least you can know exactly how many calories there are. But I know that's not a good thing either.
It can be a pain, especially for a one-time choice like at a restaurant.

But for your example, with something you eat regularly, what you describe us exactly how I’ve done it.
You can just wing it. I am not anal enough to wiegh things at restaurants but I have a pretty good feel for what a half cup of rice or 6 ounce of chicken is like these days. Make some guesses about the sauce and put in a number. If it is really 330 instead of 300 doesn't matter. I am betting with a casserole the issue is more eating 2+ portions instead of one:).

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by HomerJ » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:14 pm

Casper wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:32 am
For people who track calories, how do you handle foods where there's no reliable way to know how many calories there are? Occasionally I get motivated to track my calories, but then I immediately hit a food where I can't tell, and I get frustrated. Example: For lunch I want to have a serving of an egg casserole my wife made. It's a mix of eggs, broccoli, peppers, and cheese. How do I know the calories in that? Am I supposed to look at each ingredient and how much is in the whole casserole, then calculate my pro rata share?

Tracking calories always makes me want to eat more packaged food, because at least you can know exactly how many calories there are. But I know that's not a good thing either.
It is a pain, but you have to add it all up.

For instance, my wife makes Manwich for me last week. I add up the calories from the hamburger and the Manwich mix, and then divide by 6 (since I get six Sloppy Joe sandwiches out of it). Six days of lunches, and I know the calories.

I also like single serving bags of chips or pretzels. Easy to track, and keeps me eating too much.
The J stands for Jay

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Pizza_and_Beer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:18 pm

Cycle wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:58 pm
Exercise? just sell you car and bike to work
Don't want to exercise today? Well you'll be fired for not showing up, so looks like it's another obligatory exercise day.
Exactly what I did.

Obligatory 60 minutes of daily exercise 5 days a week just with the simple act of going to work and then going home.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by miles monroe » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:25 pm

Pizza_and_Beer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:18 pm
Cycle wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:58 pm
Exercise? just sell you car and bike to work
Don't want to exercise today? Well you'll be fired for not showing up, so looks like it's another obligatory exercise day.
Exactly what I did.

Obligatory 60 minutes of daily exercise 5 days a week just with the simple act of going to work and then going home.
lol, actually good diet advice from the dude who calls himself "pizza and beer". :)

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by Pizza_and_Beer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:31 pm

miles monroe wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:25 pm
Pizza_and_Beer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:18 pm
Cycle wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:58 pm
Exercise? just sell you car and bike to work
Don't want to exercise today? Well you'll be fired for not showing up, so looks like it's another obligatory exercise day.
Exactly what I did.

Obligatory 60 minutes of daily exercise 5 days a week just with the simple act of going to work and then going home.
lol, actually good diet advice from the dude who calls himself "pizza and beer". :)
Yep...I can't contribute much as far as diet advice goes. I LOVE pizza and beer. :sharebeer

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by p14175 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:35 pm

Teamwork! Having a weight loss buddy (my DH in this case) was the key to me losing over 100 pounds. We used a combo of Paleo, Keto, and intermittent fasting. We do a lot of cooking at home. I can't wait to get back to after the chemo is done.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by victw » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:01 pm

seligsoj wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Any bogleheads any diet wisdom? I've always been disciplined with saving money but can't seem to apply the same discipline to my diet. I have tried weight watchers, Jenny Craig, beach body, keto, my fitness pal...I lack discipline and get hungry. Just this week I decided to start eating the same thing for breakfast and lunch (all healthy, clean foods) and prepping these meals ahead of time. I love exercising but can't always squeeze it in at night (working full time and have 2 young kids). I'm not terribly overweight but would look and feel better if I lost 15 pounds
Well - I'll bite. I haven't waded through the 100+ responses. But it's really just a budgeting problem. Your budget is the number of calories you burn a day. You are exceeding your budget.

The easiest way to get your budget in check might be to eat more volume. Make 1/2 of your plate veggies.
Calorie Density has been mentioned. Here's my favorite explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg

Let us know how it works out.
Vic

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by fortfun » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:05 pm

seligsoj wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Any bogleheads any diet wisdom? I've always been disciplined with saving money but can't seem to apply the same discipline to my diet. I have tried weight watchers, Jenny Craig, beach body, keto, my fitness pal...I lack discipline and get hungry. Just this week I decided to start eating the same thing for breakfast and lunch (all healthy, clean foods) and prepping these meals ahead of time. I love exercising but can't always squeeze it in at night (working full time and have 2 young kids). I'm not terribly overweight but would look and feel better if I lost 15 pounds
Not sure if anyone has mention this but muscle is very important. Just as you investments make money while you sleep, muscle will burn calories while you sleep. If sticking to a low calorie diet is hard for you, consider spending some time lifting weights, etc. and that will help burn the extra calories that you consume. Staying away from sugar and crappy carbs will probably have the biggest payoff, as far as diet is concerned.

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Re: Disciplined with finances, but not so with diet

Post by livesoft » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:13 pm

I like this 20 min explanation from a physicist about calories and the carbon atoms in the things we eat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIlsN32WaE
In a nutshell, the only way to get rid of carbon atoms found in our weight is to breath it out as carbon dioxide. Of course, if we don't let those carbon atoms get added to our weight in the first place, then that helps.

Not in the video, but the microbes in your gut can get some of your food calories, reproduce (make more microbes) and you can poop them out.
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