My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:06 pm

TSB 18-114 description of problem:
Under certain circumstances, the vehicle may experience driveability concerns, which may result in DTC's P0300(Random Misfire Detected), P0301 (No. 1 Cylinder Misfire Detected), P0302 (No. 2 Cylinder Misfire Detected), P0303(No. 3 Cylinder Misfire Detected), P0304 (No. 4 Cylinder Misfire Detected), or P0172 (Fuel System Too Rich) to set.
DTC refers to the check engine light "diagnostic trouble code". I've not experienced any check engine light warnings, but it is informative that the one of the DTC codes apparently related to oil dilution is "fuel system too rich." Maybe I'm reaching here, but this fits with my suspicion that the engine computer on the 1.5T is programmed to spray excess fuel into the cylinders to mitigate LSPI and is overdoing it at least in some situations, such as cold engine startup; perhaps the software "fix" is intended to manage this somewhat more effectively. Speculate, speculate...
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

2017HatchCivic
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by 2017HatchCivic » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:58 am

susa wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:11 am
Just a small technical detail on this:

It was fairly simple to install a dual oil filter remote on this engine. Having 2 remote large oil filters increases the total capacity to 5 qt and makes the issue less threatening. Original capacity is 3.7 qt and most dealer service departments do not fill it to correct level.

This has no effect on the original warranty.
Just a few questions Susa


Did you install the dual remote bypass filter and full flow set up? If so was it on a CR-V or civic? Any pictures? Have you checked oil pressure before and after on these 1.5T.

Helo80
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Helo80 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:59 am

CULater wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:41 pm
Just received my letter from Honda to get the "fix." Will get both the software update and replacement of the A/C control unit. Guess I'll be finding out soon myself if it works. Not expecting it to but I might be surprised. Will go to the dealer tomorrow to set up an appointment.

This has been an interesting thread for sure... I hope that the fix, works.

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:53 pm

The joke continues. Please, please do not buy one of these things unless you are a masochist.

1) Received second oil analysis report on sample sent after 3000 miles of driving and 50% oil life left on maintenance minder. Fuel dilution once again is >5% at severe level. Now something new is added: a significant level of water contamination, rendering the oil viscosity test invalid. So I don't know if viscosity was within specs or not, which is the critical part. Could the water contamination indicate seal failure or something else that is related to insufficient lubrication from gas-diluted oil? I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but this thing blows water out the tailpipe like an outboard boat engine. I have pictures of the water trail it leaves after I've been driving and pull up to park. Never seen anything like it.

2) Just returned from Honda dealer trying to schedule the update fix for oil dilution (er, "driveability issue" as Honda calls it). Complete waste of my time. While the the letter states that I should take the vehicle into any authorized Honda dealer as soon as possible, this dealer was totally confused. I happen to be in Missouri (not on the list of states where letters are being mailed to owners), while the vehicle was purchased in Iowa (which is on the list). This Missouri dealer did not have access to the software update and had no knowledge that they would be receiving access to that or the A/C control unit replacement. I was told that they wouldn't even do the work unless one of the relevant check engine codes displayed. So, this is another total screw-up by Honda suggesting that even if you are eligible for the fix you can't get it unless you're physically located in an eligible state. Too bad for snowbirds or someone who has relocated; even if you get the letter that you are eligible for the fix you can forget about going to a Honda dealer in another state to get the work done.

The only thing worse than having this problem is having to deal with Honda and Honda dealers about it. Total failure of customer service. If you buy a Honda that's what you're getting. If I were you, I'd take a pass. A complete joke that I've been dealing with now for about a year.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

mortfree
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by mortfree » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:02 pm

Trade it in already, please.

Also as you are the worrying type could Honda come after you for libel with this thread?

I am not a lawyer.

CrestSupeHawk
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CrestSupeHawk » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:17 pm

I doubt that Honda will sue him for libel. The oil analysis tests are fact and conducted by independent labs. I have had the "fix" on our 2018 CRV and recently noticed a big trail of water from the mufflers after driving 2.5 miles to my Mom's house. I saw the water marks from road to where I parked on the driveway. The trail led right to the mufflers which were dripping a a lot of water. My dilution is no better after the fix. The dipstick wreaks of gasoline. These vehicles have issues that are likely going to rear their ugly heads after the warranty expires. Honda has been deceitful about what is really going on here.

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:24 pm

Thought I'd post while this is fresh in my mind. Just got off the phone with American Honda Customer Service at the number on the notification letter to call with questions about the "Product Update." I specifically asked if the Software Update and/or the A/C Controller replacement were offered by Honda as a "fix" for the oil dilution issue. Answer was NO. These updates are provided ONLY to address the DTC's listed in the TSB which are: random misfire, cylinder 1 misfire, cylinder 2 misfire, cylinder 3 misfire, cylinder 4 misfire, or fuel system too rich. I was specifically told that the PUD does not address the oil dilution issue, and that there is no official service bulletin or recall that does address this issue. He said that the oil dilution issue was a separate issue and not the issues being addressed in the TSB. Couldn't be any clearer, could it? If, as a byproduct of the PUD, it seems to help with oil dilution then good for you but don't expect it. So there you have it. Despite Honda's proclamations in the Consumer Reports article and elsewhere, they are not in fact offering a solution to CRV Owners for oil dilution. They lied.

I also asked if you can take your CRV to any Honda dealer in the country to get the update. I was told yes, that all dealers had been notified. I pointed that the dealer I just saw said they couldn't offer the PUD and they did not have access to the software update and did not have any A/C controller parts and knew nothing about it. Gee. Then I asked if they could direct me to any other dealers in my area who could offer the update. I got the phone number of the another Honda dealer and was told to call them. Gee.

I then asked if I should be driving the vehicle if there was fuel in the oil as documented by the high level on the dipstick and by two oil analysis reports that indicate severe fuel dilution. After being placed on hold for 10 minutes while they talked to the lawyer (I guess), they came back and said that unless a dealer has verified that there is a significant problem, Honda Corp can only document my concerns. Of course, I've been to 3 different dealers in 3 different parts of country who all blew me off and didn't even document the issue, saying that they couldn't offer anything unless it comes down to them from American Honda. So, now we have the new Honda Corporate Logo, which is arms crossed with fingers pointing in opposite directions. Dealers say talk to Honda Corp and Honda Corp says talk to the dealer. If it seems to you that Honda is not taking responsibility for this problem, you would be correct. Shameful.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

Wakefield1
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Wakefield1 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:55 pm

CULater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:53 pm


Fuel dilution once again is >5% at severe level. Now something new is added: a significant level of water contamination, rendering the oil viscosity test invalid. So I don't know if viscosity was within specs or not, which is the critical part. Could the water contamination indicate seal failure or something else that is related to insufficient lubrication from gas-diluted oil? I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but this thing blows water out the tailpipe like an outboard boat engine. I have pictures of the water trail it leaves after I've been driving and pull up to park. Never seen anything like it.

It is possible you have another (severe) problem with this engine,most likely independent of the fuel in oil dilution,of a leaking cooling system or head gasket.
Does the exhaust/water smell of antifreeze? Curious as to whether Honda uses water cooling of their turbo bearings (a leak there might not be so catastrophic as a blown head gasket)
Last edited by Wakefield1 on Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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monkey_business
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by monkey_business » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:01 pm

mortfree wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:02 pm
Trade it in already, please.
Agreed.

CULater,

Is there a reason why you still have this car? If the reason is financial, I think losing money by trading in your almost new CR-V is worth it to save yourself from all the stress and aggravation you seem to be experiencing.

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:14 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:01 pm
mortfree wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:02 pm
Trade it in already, please.
Agreed.

CULater,

Is there a reason why you still have this car? If the reason is financial, I think losing money by trading in your almost new CR-V is worth it to save yourself from all the stress and aggravation you seem to be experiencing.
As soon as I identify another vehicle that I want as a replacement, I'll take the hit and get rid of the CRV. Have my eye on the 2019 RAV4 just coming out. In the meantime, my mission is to inform people of my experience. If it weren't for the tragedy of this mutant engine, it would be a really good vehicle. People keep buying them because of the appeal, but they don't know or care about the engine problem, or they think they won't draw the short straw if they buy one. Don't do it...
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Ricola
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Ricola » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:24 pm

Admire your tenaciousness, but at some point, it is just a car and they make and crush thousands of them continually. Honda does not deserve your loyalty, consider trading it for RAV4 and turning this over to some Class Action lawyers. Your health will benefit and you might get a $1.99 back some day. :happy

smitcat
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by smitcat » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:33 pm

Ricola wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:24 pm
Admire your tenaciousness, but at some point, it is just a car and they make and crush thousands of them continually. Honda does not deserve your loyalty, consider trading it for RAV4 and turning this over to some Class Action lawyers. Your health will benefit and you might get a $1.99 back some day. :happy
I agree Ricola , life is too short.
Is that a Trojan boat and Zodiac RIB I see in your avatar?

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susa
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by susa » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:35 pm

2017HatchCivic wrote: Did you install the dual remote bypass filter and full flow set up?
Not BYPASS filters. Yes, installed dual remote full flow. The old filter location connects adapter with dual lines routed into firewall area. Sorry, no pictures. Youtube is full of them.

GW208
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by GW208 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:08 am

CULater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:53 pm
The joke continues. Please, please do not buy one of these things unless you are a masochist.

The only thing worse than having this problem is having to deal with Honda and Honda dealers about it. Total failure of customer service. If you buy a Honda that's what you're getting. If I were you, I'd take a pass. A complete joke that I've been dealing with now for about a year.
Oh snap!!
Honda reports that the CRV just recorded an all time monthly sales record. :)

https://hondanews.com/channels/corporat ... s-increase

Red Spot
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Red Spot » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 pm

CULater wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:06 pm
TSB 18-114 description of problem:
Under certain circumstances, the vehicle may experience driveability concerns, which may result in DTC's P0300(Random Misfire Detected), P0301 (No. 1 Cylinder Misfire Detected), P0302 (No. 2 Cylinder Misfire Detected), P0303(No. 3 Cylinder Misfire Detected), P0304 (No. 4 Cylinder Misfire Detected), or P0172 (Fuel System Too Rich) to set.
DTC refers to the check engine light "diagnostic trouble code". I've not experienced any check engine light warnings, but it is informative that the one of the DTC codes apparently related to oil dilution is "fuel system too rich." Maybe I'm reaching here, but this fits with my suspicion that the engine computer on the 1.5T is programmed to spray excess fuel into the cylinders to mitigate LSPI and is overdoing it at least in some situations, such as cold engine startup; perhaps the software "fix" is intended to manage this somewhat more effectively. Speculate, speculate...
CU Later
Have you had a compression test done on each cyclinder? Is it possible that you have unknowingly suffered LSPI and have damaged rings?

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CULater
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CULater » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Drove back to Iowa to get the "fix" today. Iowa is one of the 2nd tier states getting it now. Couldn't get it done in Missouri at a dealer there, even though Honda customer service told me any dealer should be able to do it if you have an authorized VIN so I decided to take it back to Iowa and get it over with. Took about and hour and a half at the dealer. Got both the software update and replacement of A/C controller unit. Oil was changed also. Drove it around a little and nothing seems different so far. I'll be watching it closely to see if it makes any difference with the oil dilution issue. This will close the case for me on this vehicle, one way or the other.
Last edited by CULater on Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

tsupersonic
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by tsupersonic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:14 pm

Yikes to this mess. I have a '17 Civic Hatchback also with the same 1.5T engine, and have had it for 2 years now. I haven't seen any news that this affects the Civic, but I'd be a prime suspect for it. I live in the north east, and my commute to work is <2 miles. Hope Honda fixes this issue - it's going to cost them big time.

samsdad
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by samsdad » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:23 pm

Well, we can’t say you didn’t try.

OldBallCoach
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by OldBallCoach » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:47 pm

OldBallCoach wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:43 am
I am getting the “fix” today. Even though the oil reeks of gas fresh oil is included but not a filter. Really Honda? I of course bought one and will leave the dealership and go car shopping, done. Honda used to care.
I am happy to report back that after 1500 miles all seems fine...no smell whatsoever and the driveability is good. One thing the Honda zone rep told me ( I happened to meet him at the dealership and they introduced me) is that the engine is a little cold blooded as are most small displacement turbo engines...this means they are gonna take a little longer to warm up and might run a little rich in the cold and this could cause some of the issue. They changed the AC switch and programed the computer so thats supposed to take care of it. My son is an engineer and he also suggested getting the oil tested so I will do that at 4000 miles when I get the oil changed and then if its all clean I will go back to the 7500 mile oil changes...we live in the country and drive a lot of highways miles and this is my DW winter car so we should know soon if it worked...is a 17 Touring edition with 31K on it, we get about 28-29 MPG with it and it seems great in the snow so I am hoping this works out. I asked the dealer what we would do if it didnt and he offered me high KBB for it on trade if I want to trade it...so the dealer must have some faith...I guess we will see...I will follow up in the next few weeks...DW is going to visit some folks and she HATES to fly commercial so it will get some miles soon. Cheers!

Random Poster
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Random Poster » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:50 pm

OldBallCoach wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:47 pm
I asked the dealer what we would do if it didnt and he offered me high KBB for it on trade if I want to trade it...so the dealer must have some faith...
Or Honda Corporate is doing some behind-the-scenes backstopping regarding late model trade-ins.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Michael Patrick » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:39 pm

I'm dumping my 2017 CRV EX for a 2019 CRV LX, which has the older 2.4l engine.

I was thinking about getting a 2016 EX, but after looking at the numbers it made more sense to buy the 2019. We can get used to not having the bells and whistles that come with the EX. Heck, we just drove from Madison to Wichita and back in a 2010 Pilot that lacks Apple Car Play and all that, and lived to tell about it.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by CrestSupeHawk » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:28 pm

Well my wife called the dealership in Appleton, Wi today to schedule an appointment to have the dealer look at the oil level; since it is about 1" over the high mark 2 months after the fix and at most 1,000 miles. Scott the manager told her don't even bother coming in unless you get a check engine light or the car begins to stall. He said Honda is refusing to change oil for those that have had the "fix" unless they can demonstrate one of those issues. He said he had another gentlemen in a few days ago for oil dilution similar to ours, sent pictures to Honda and they basically said not our problem - its operating as designed. I no longer have faith that Honda will do the right thing and am done with this brand. I'm hoping this engine throws a rod so they can fix it this POS right.

TLC1957
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by TLC1957 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:35 pm

CrestSupeHawk wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:28 pm
Well my wife called the dealership in Appleton, Wi today to schedule an appointment to have the dealer look at the oil level; since it is about 1" over the high mark 2 months after the fix and at most 1,000 miles. Scott the manager told her don't even bother coming in unless you get a check engine light or the car begins to stall. He said Honda is refusing to change oil for those that have had the "fix" unless they can demonstrate one of those issues. He said he had another gentlemen in a few days ago for oil dilution similar to ours, sent pictures to Honda and they basically said not our problem - its operating as designed. I no longer have faith that Honda will do the right thing and am done with this brand. I'm hoping this engine throws a rod so they can fix it this POS right.
I had my 2017 Touring CRV fix done on Friday, changed the oil, software upgrade and AC modular. No questions asked about check engine light, gas smell when I called to make the appointment. So your dealer is not telling you the truth bring it to another dealer. By the way I have no problem with gas in the oil or gas smell, 20 K miles. Dealer told me I was the 6th CRV today with the fix.

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msi
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by msi » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:26 am

tsupersonic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:14 pm
Yikes to this mess. I have a '17 Civic Hatchback also with the same 1.5T engine, and have had it for 2 years now. I haven't seen any news that this affects the Civic, but I'd be a prime suspect for it. I live in the north east, and my commute to work is <2 miles. Hope Honda fixes this issue - it's going to cost them big time.
This does affect the Civic with the 1.5T engine, too. https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018 ... vels.shtml

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Michael Patrick
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Michael Patrick » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:57 pm

I unloaded my 2017 EX today. It's someone else's problem now.

The dealership gave me a solid amount on the trade-in. The salesperson told me that, since Honda's position is that the oil dilution I was experiencing was normal, they will price my trade-in as if there was no defect.

Came down to a choice between a 2016 EX or EX-L or a new 2019 LX. The way the numbers worked out, the difference in payment would have been around $50 between a used 2016 and the new 2019. I wasn't planning on buying new, but it just made more sense. After three years we wind up with a car that is three years newer (2019 vs. 2016) and with a lot fewer miles, and we're only out an additional $1,800. We can do without the bells and whistles that come with an EX or EX-L.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by BeachPerson » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:24 pm

Michael Patrick wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:57 pm
I unloaded my 2017 EX today. It's someone else's problem now.

The dealership gave me a solid amount on the trade-in. The salesperson told me that, since Honda's position is that the oil dilution I was experiencing was normal, they will price my trade-in as if there was no defect.

Came down to a choice between a 2016 EX or EX-L or a new 2019 LX. The way the numbers worked out, the difference in payment would have been around $50 between a used 2016 and the new 2019. I wasn't planning on buying new, but it just made more sense. After three years we wind up with a car that is three years newer (2019 vs. 2016) and with a lot fewer miles, and we're only out an additional $1,800. We can do without the bells and whistles that come with an EX or EX-L.
Did you stay with a CRV???

If so, are you sure the problem is fixed with the 2019?
David | | From Jack Brennan's "Straight Talk on Investing", page 23 "Living below your means is the ultimate financial strategy"

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Michael Patrick
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Michael Patrick » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:35 pm

BeachPerson wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:24 pm

Did you stay with a CRV???

If so, are you sure the problem is fixed with the 2019?
It is a CRV, but it has a different engine, not the 1.5l turbo that has the oil dilution problem.

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zaplunken
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by zaplunken » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:51 pm

Based upon how poorly Honda has handled this I am surprised anyone would buy another Honda especially someone that had the problem and had to dump the car for fear of what might be coming. I've bought used Hondas since 1987 and I am done with them, my 93 Accord will be the last one. Toyota will be my next choice.

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Michael Patrick
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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by Michael Patrick » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:27 pm

It was a strategic decision on my part. I'm guessing that dealerships for other manufacturers would hesitate to take a 2017 with the 1.5l engine in trade. Believe me, I didn't want to buy another Honda, but this seemed the best path to get out of the 2017 EX oil diluter.

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Re: My 2017 CRV is a victim of the dreaded oil gas-dilution issue

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:05 pm

Michael Patrick wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:27 pm
It was a strategic decision on my part. I'm guessing that dealerships for other manufacturers would hesitate to take a 2017 with the 1.5l engine in trade. Believe me, I didn't want to buy another Honda, but this seemed the best path to get out of the 2017 EX oil diluter.
I like the way you think!

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