I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

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jbird
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:58 am

I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by jbird » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm

I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
Last edited by jbird on Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mhalley
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by mhalley » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:35 pm

People don’t know tickers, esp non vanguard ones. This is fidelity total international index fund.
By their nature, stocks are volatile. Sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down. Sometimes they go down a LOT! International is added to a portfolio as they give additional diversification, ie, maybe it will go up when U.S. goes down. This is not guaranteed, sometimes they both go up or down.
The response to the fund going down should be to rebalance. 12% is nothing. In 2008 intl went down 44%.

Here are some facts about bears and corrections.
.What is a bear market?

The usual definition is that a bear market happens when stocks decline at least 20 percent from their peaks. A correction is when stocks fall 10 percent. Since a recent high of 2132.82 on July 20, the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index is now down 10.1 percent—barely a correction, and a long way from a bull market.

2. How often do corrections and bear markets happen?

From 1900 through 2013, there were 123 corrections (about one per year) and 32 bear markets (one every 3.5 years), according to Ned Davis Research.

3. How long do they last?

In the average correction, the market fully recovered its value within an average of 10 months, according to Azzad Asset Management. The average bear market lasts for 15 months, with stocks declining 32 percent. The most recent bear market lasted 17 months, from October 2007 to March 2009, and shaved 54 percent off of the Dow Jones Industrial Average.
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/24/8-thing ... rkets.html

People early in the accumulation phase should celebrate a bear, as you have little money in your portfolio and you are buying stocks on sale every month with your 401k. Us retired folks sigh, have a beer, and rebalance. :beer

onourway
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by onourway » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:14 pm

Why did you choose this fund in the first place? Assuming it was because you believed in the importance of some international diversity. Do you believe differently today? If so, would you still believe differently if your international fund were flat-ish for the year, and US stocks were down 12%? Be honest.

Stocks go up and stocks go down. Trying to jump from one asset class to another in response to what they have done will tend to leave you always lagging the market, buying high and selling low. It’s common investor behavior, which is why the common investor tends to do so poorly over the long run.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:38 pm

Don't blame Fidelity or the fund. International stocks are down this year, and the index has accurately captured this downward movement. If you would have invested in Vanguard's international index fund, you would have the same complaint. Last year, however, you would have been thrilled by the stellar performance of international stocks. Who knows what next year will bring? Will it be a good year like 2017, or a bad year like 2018?

megabad
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by megabad » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:28 pm

jbird wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm
I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
Pain? Regret? I am thrilled. An opportunity to buy low when I rebalance (actually mine was in taxable so I get to claim losses and reduce my taxes too). Who cares what it did this year if you are in it for the long haul?

Flyer24
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by Flyer24 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:27 pm

You are only in your 20’s. It isn’t about returns for you. You want the fund to drop so all new purchases are cheaper. You are in the share accumulation phase so be happy. A fund drop is the best thing for a young investor.

jbird
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:58 am

Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by jbird » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:34 pm

Flyer24 wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:27 pm
You are only in your 20’s. It isn’t about returns for you. You want the fund to drop so all new purchases are cheaper. You are in the share accumulation phase so be happy. A fund drop is the best thing for a young investor.
You’re right! Thanks for the reminder.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:42 pm

jbird wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm
I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
The way you overcome this frustration is to ensure your portfolio is diversified. Some years your international fund will be down but other investments will be up, other years the other investments will be down and international will be up.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:49 pm

things that go up also go down from time to time. did someone say investments were only supposed to go up and never down? Did you know that Warren Buffett has publicly stated his investments have lost 50% of their value three times since he started investing...and yet he has more today than he ever had before.

Diversification means always having to say you're sorry. There will always be some part of your portfolio that doesn't make you happy. That's the thing you've got to keep buying until it turns around and something else makes you unhappy.

last year total international did better than U.S. (27.5% vs 21.1%, see link below). Did you wish you didn't have U.S. last year and instead only had 100% international? No. Now that could be becuase U.S. wasn't down, it just didn't do as well as international, but still.

https://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fu ... 2%3A%5B%5D%

If you bounce around and change allocation everytime something isn't doing well, you'll never get the returns you should get.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

averagedude
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by averagedude » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:07 pm

onourway wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:14 pm
Why did you choose this fund in the first place? Assuming it was because you believed in the importance of some international diversity. Do you believe differently today? If so, would you still believe differently if your international fund were flat-ish for the year, and US stocks were down 12%? Be honest.

Stocks go up and stocks go down. Trying to jump from one asset class to another in response to what they have done will tend to leave you always lagging the market, buying high and selling low. It’s common investor behavior, which is why the common investor tends to do so poorly over the long run.
+1. Great answer that sums it up.

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whodidntante
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by whodidntante » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:45 pm

You're supposed to say^H^H^Hthink that you don't care it went down, and that you are excited to buy more.

Dottie57
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:53 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:38 pm
Don't blame Fidelity or the fund. International stocks are down this year, and the index has accurately captured this downward movement. If you would have invested in Vanguard's international index fund, you would have the same complaint. Last year, however, you would have been thrilled by the stellar performance of international stocks. Who knows what next year will bring? Will it be a good year like 2017, or a bad year like 2018?
I have the same fund. It has done as expected. I don’t like that it s down, but it may be up next year. Volatility..

finagle
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by finagle » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:40 pm

$10.70 today.

I keep lowering my buy-in price. $11.50... To $11 now. More heavy buying at $10.50 next?

I dca into ftihx every 2 weeks ($200 only).

Whenever it has looked "low" this year, I drop in a bonus $500/1000/2000.

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nedsaid
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by nedsaid » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:12 pm

jbird wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm
I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
Why did you invest in the fund in the first place?

You are a good candidate for an Investment Policy Statement. The Wiki has an excellent article on this and there is a good worksheet at the Morningstar website. Two things are clear, your viewpoint is too short term and you don't have a plan. Get cracking.
A fool and his money are good for business.

tibbitts
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by tibbitts » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:26 pm

jbird wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm
I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
Obviously we regret every day that we hold a fund and it loses money. We just don't have any better alternatives.

H-Town
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by H-Town » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:32 pm

jbird wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm
I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
Investing is hard. Don't do it.

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billyo44
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by billyo44 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:47 pm

I love these posts concerning how awful International Indexes are doing...remembering pre-2017 performance and negative comments associated with it made me glad I was tilting my stock allocation to Int at that time. Having TLH'd some 2018 losses in Int...waiting for the wash sale window to close to buy more at lower prices...and hold long-term...cheers. For what its worth...from Vanguard's 'Economic and Market Outlook for 2019'..."Expected returns for the U.S. stock market are lower than those for international markets, underscoring the benefits of global equity strategies in this environment".

:sharebeer
Independence = Financial assets working for you versus you working for them.

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CyclingDuo
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by CyclingDuo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:03 am

jbird wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm
I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
Yes, we have all experienced a decline in our international index funds this year be it Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, or pick a name of the company due to slowing growth. Think longer term as your index funds for US and International are designed to provide you with global diversification. Part of the investing journey includes downs as well as ups.
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

hap_ca
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Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by hap_ca » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:36 am

Some of us have been feeling the pain of international investment for 10+ years :D

retire2022
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Location: NYC

Re: I’m getting frustrated FTIHX

Post by retire2022 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:30 pm

jbird wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:27 pm
I invested in FTIHX last year and it has done terrible. It’s almost down 12% since I purchased it. Is anyone else experiencing this pain? I’m in for the long haul because it’s in my ROTH IRA, but I’m regretting even investing anything in the fund! :annoyed
Jbird, eventually you will learn to invest in out of favor funds, find funds you like which has good track record stay in the fund no matter how bad it gets, like others, invest more when it goes down, the shares get discounted, Dollar Cost average. Your investing horizon should be 5-10 years, eventually they will recover.

Also here is a good article on what to do when the market goes south from Christine Benz of Morningstar:

https://www.morningstar.com/articles/84 ... l-kit.html

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