Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

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Cycle
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Cycle » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:45 pm

Kitty Telltales wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:16 pm
Cycle wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:04 pm
Seems like a lot of money to be spending on a personal vehicle. I'd divert that money to retirement savings. Self driving fleets are coming very soon.
Just spent the weekend in Berlin and we used a car sharing service to get around, like "city bike". The cars, all Audis, are left around the city in all neighborhoods. You see the available cars on their app and reserve the nearest car. It was amazingly cheap to rent per minute and more convenient than taking the street car if you have a few people travelling together. The idea is that cars can be used by many and the service will reduce the need for so many individually owned cars just parked, clogging up the street, not being used.

Wish the service were more widely available.

There will be so many tech innovations in the near future that, in my opinion, any car bought now will soon be old school.
We have a kid coming soon, he will never have a driver's license. Sounds like Car2Go.

I think we're probably 4 years away in Minneapolis from the abandonment of personal vehicles. I hope to get a few hundred dollars for our honda at that time. The scaling of the fleets will happen faster than the conversion to smart phones.

investor997
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:03 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:12 am
investor997 wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:51 pm
The employees all give you a big round of applause as you drive out of the delivery room.
Really? Seems like that would be pretty embarrassing.
Nothing embarrassing about it. It's just their way of saying "Congratulations!".

investor997
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:10 pm

OP here again. Here's the Day #3 report... Maybe I should turn this into a running blog.

I experienced my first use of a public charging station yesterday. My office park has several Chargepoint Level 2 chargers available. I signed up for a Chargepoint account ahead of time and requested an RFID tag from them which came in the mail last week. The chargers near me cost $1.25/hr for the first four hours. Over 1h:36m, my car sucked down 9.12 kWh of juice for which I was billed $2.01. Range-wise I can't remember exactly how much was added but I believe it was something like 35 miles, so easy math tells me if I were driving a car that got 35mpg, it was like I just paid $2.01 for a gallon of gas. 91 octane premium fuel is currently about $4/gal here in Orange County. And there isn't a 35mpg car anywhere that can keep up with this thing in a straight line.

I also enabled Lane Departure Warning in the vehicle settings. I didn't RTFM and just assumed it'd beep at me if I did something as heinous as try to make a lane change without using the turn signals. Instead it vibrates the steering wheel. Kinda freaked me out at first, thinking something was going wrong. Thankfully that's not the case.

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Cycle
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Cycle » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:03 pm

Californians will be some of the first to abandon their personal cars. Waymo now has a permit to operate driverless cars there (no safety driver), including conditions of light rain and fog. This is the first company to be granted the permit in California, and Arizona is the other state where Waymo has similar permissions.

If i lived in the Waymo operational zone, I'd sell my car immediately. Currently that zone is in the vicinity of Palo Alto.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/180 ... fornia-dmv

Strummer
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Strummer » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:48 am

investor997 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:10 pm
I experienced my first use of a public charging station yesterday. My office park has several Chargepoint Level 2 chargers available. I signed up for a Chargepoint account ahead of time and requested an RFID tag from them which came in the mail last week. The chargers near me cost $1.25/hr for the first four hours. Over 1h:36m, my car sucked down 9.12 kWh of juice for which I was billed $2.01. Range-wise I can't remember exactly how much was added but I believe it was something like 35 miles, so easy math tells me if I were driving a car that got 35mpg, it was like I just paid $2.01 for a gallon of gas. 91 octane premium fuel is currently about $4/gal here in Orange County. And there isn't a 35mpg car anywhere that can keep up with this thing in a straight line.
Chargepoint also has an iPhone app that allows you to use your phone, a la Apple Pay, to activate a charger. Saves me from having to carry their RFID tag.

Enjoy the car! I agree that the long-range version has ample power and the Performance version is an unnecessary luxury, but I'm glad I sprung for autopilot. Traffic aware cruise control is a great tool in stop-and-go traffic, and I find long freeway trips are made much easier with autopilot.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:01 pm

Strummer wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:48 am
Chargepoint also has an iPhone app that allows you to use your phone, a la Apple Pay, to activate a charger. Saves me from having to carry their RFID tag.

Enjoy the car! I agree that the long-range version has ample power and the Performance version is an unnecessary luxury, but I'm glad I sprung for autopilot. Traffic aware cruise control is a great tool in stop-and-go traffic, and I find long freeway trips are made much easier with autopilot.
A friend of mine told me to get the RFID tag. He says he's had instances of trying to use the Chargepoint app in an underground garage where his cellphone couldn't get reception. It didn't cost anything to request one, so...

Day 4: I decided to drive my '04 Toyota 4Runner to work today. It was in need of some exercise. I cannot describe just how ancient and unrefined it feels compared to the Tesla. I'd initially not planned to sell it because I like having it around - it's reliable, it doesn't depreciate at all and it's nice to have a camping/offroading/adventure vehicle but at this point, I just don't see it getting used much anymore, especially since the Tesla can easily carry my mountain bike inside with the seats folded.

3funder
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by 3funder » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:10 pm

A car is a hunk of metal and/or fiberglass that loses value over time. Why would you want to spend $75,000 on one? When I was 12, my father was approximately your age and had a similar amount of money saved. He worked in high finance (not on Wall Street or at a brokerage firm) and had a very bright future ahead of him re: credentials and job performance. One day, I asked him why he didn't drive a Mercedes like some of my friends' parents. His response: "Cars aren't important to me, and I'd rather retire comfortably." Don't waste your hard-earned money on something that could be destroyed by a reckless driver approaching you from the opposite direction. There. I've convinced you. If I haven't, I'm a huge failure.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by monkey_business » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:56 pm

3funder wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:10 pm
A car is a hunk of metal and/or fiberglass that loses value over time. Why would you want to spend $75,000 on one? When I was 12, my father was approximately your age and had a similar amount of money saved. He worked in high finance (not on Wall Street or at a brokerage firm) and had a very bright future ahead of him re: credentials and job performance. One day, I asked him why he didn't drive a Mercedes like some of my friends' parents. His response: "Cars aren't important to me, and I'd rather retire comfortably." Don't waste your hard-earned money on something that could be destroyed by a reckless driver approaching you from the opposite direction. There. I've convinced you. If I haven't, I'm a huge failure.
Food is just sustenance. A house is just a place to shield yourself from the elements. A vacation is just a temporary geographical change.

Some people don't eat exclusively for the sake of not dying from starvation, but actually enjoy the tastes, smells, textures, etc. Some people don't live in a tent, because they want to enjoy their living space beyond not getting cold/wet/attacked by predators. You get the point.

Similarly, some people don't drive cars exclusively for transportation. They enjoy the feeling, seeing, hearing, etc of driving. They don't want to drive canned beans every day. They spend a considerable amount of time in their life sitting behind the wheel of a car, and, when they can afford it, want that time to be enjoyable for them.

What if you dream of a cool car your whole life, scrimp and save so you can retire and finally buy one, and then realize you're too old and unhealthy to enjoy that car? What if you die before your big plans altogether? Sure, don't just live for today and not save for the future, but similarly, don't just live for the future because it might never come.

Find the right balance that makes you happy. If cars don't make you happy, congratulations. I am sure there are things you enjoy that some others view as a waste as well. Or maybe you live like a monk so you can retire rich. All is well. No need to sour the hobbies of others :beer

3funder
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by 3funder » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:43 am

monkey_business wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:56 pm
3funder wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:10 pm
A car is a hunk of metal and/or fiberglass that loses value over time. Why would you want to spend $75,000 on one? When I was 12, my father was approximately your age and had a similar amount of money saved. He worked in high finance (not on Wall Street or at a brokerage firm) and had a very bright future ahead of him re: credentials and job performance. One day, I asked him why he didn't drive a Mercedes like some of my friends' parents. His response: "Cars aren't important to me, and I'd rather retire comfortably." Don't waste your hard-earned money on something that could be destroyed by a reckless driver approaching you from the opposite direction. There. I've convinced you. If I haven't, I'm a huge failure.
Food is just sustenance. A house is just a place to shield yourself from the elements. A vacation is just a temporary geographical change.

Some people don't eat exclusively for the sake of not dying from starvation, but actually enjoy the tastes, smells, textures, etc. Some people don't live in a tent, because they want to enjoy their living space beyond not getting cold/wet/attacked by predators. You get the point.

Similarly, some people don't drive cars exclusively for transportation. They enjoy the feeling, seeing, hearing, etc of driving. They don't want to drive canned beans every day. They spend a considerable amount of time in their life sitting behind the wheel of a car, and, when they can afford it, want that time to be enjoyable for them.

What if you dream of a cool car your whole life, scrimp and save so you can retire and finally buy one, and then realize you're too old and unhealthy to enjoy that car? What if you die before your big plans altogether? Sure, don't just live for today and not save for the future, but similarly, don't just live for the future because it might never come.

Find the right balance that makes you happy. If cars don't make you happy, congratulations. I am sure there are things you enjoy that some others view as a waste as well. Or maybe you live like a monk so you can retire rich. All is well. No need to sour the hobbies of others :beer
Indeed, and thanks for the reality check. I think I push my car philosophy because cars can be destroyed by factors over which we have no control (the elements, reckless drivers, etc). My bass guitar and my bowling ball are less susceptible to that kind of stuff. That said, you're still right about everyone valuing what they enjoy. OP -- sorry if I came off as judgmental.

alfaspider
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:01 am

3funder wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:43 am
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:56 pm
3funder wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:10 pm
A car is a hunk of metal and/or fiberglass that loses value over time. Why would you want to spend $75,000 on one? When I was 12, my father was approximately your age and had a similar amount of money saved. He worked in high finance (not on Wall Street or at a brokerage firm) and had a very bright future ahead of him re: credentials and job performance. One day, I asked him why he didn't drive a Mercedes like some of my friends' parents. His response: "Cars aren't important to me, and I'd rather retire comfortably." Don't waste your hard-earned money on something that could be destroyed by a reckless driver approaching you from the opposite direction. There. I've convinced you. If I haven't, I'm a huge failure.
Food is just sustenance. A house is just a place to shield yourself from the elements. A vacation is just a temporary geographical change.

Some people don't eat exclusively for the sake of not dying from starvation, but actually enjoy the tastes, smells, textures, etc. Some people don't live in a tent, because they want to enjoy their living space beyond not getting cold/wet/attacked by predators. You get the point.

Similarly, some people don't drive cars exclusively for transportation. They enjoy the feeling, seeing, hearing, etc of driving. They don't want to drive canned beans every day. They spend a considerable amount of time in their life sitting behind the wheel of a car, and, when they can afford it, want that time to be enjoyable for them.

What if you dream of a cool car your whole life, scrimp and save so you can retire and finally buy one, and then realize you're too old and unhealthy to enjoy that car? What if you die before your big plans altogether? Sure, don't just live for today and not save for the future, but similarly, don't just live for the future because it might never come.

Find the right balance that makes you happy. If cars don't make you happy, congratulations. I am sure there are things you enjoy that some others view as a waste as well. Or maybe you live like a monk so you can retire rich. All is well. No need to sour the hobbies of others :beer
Indeed, and thanks for the reality check. I think I push my car philosophy because cars can be destroyed by factors over which we have no control (the elements, reckless drivers, etc). My bass guitar and my bowling ball are less susceptible to that kind of stuff. That said, you're still right about everyone valuing what they enjoy. OP -- sorry if I came off as judgmental.
Your losses on a fancy car are limited to your deductible- just about anybody with a high-dollar car will have full-coverage insurance. If you don't gain utility from a car beyond basic mobility, then indeed one shouldn't spend a cent more than necessary. But risk of loss is not a particularly compelling reason to avoid going beyond that.

investor997
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:05 am

3funder wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:43 am
Indeed, and thanks for the reality check. I think I push my car philosophy because cars can be destroyed by factors over which we have no control (the elements, reckless drivers, etc). My bass guitar and my bowling ball are less susceptible to that kind of stuff. That said, you're still right about everyone valuing what they enjoy. OP -- sorry if I came off as judgmental.
OP here. Just to refresh, the car my Tesla replaced was a 2010 Porsche 911 that I hardly ever drove because it couldn't easily carry a mountain bike, which I ride multiple times per week. With the rear seats folded, the Model 3 can carry a bike quite easily so that problem is solved. It may be an expensive car but I plan to drive the wheels off of it. If it gets wrecked, well that's why I have insurance. Elon's tent factory in Fremont is cranking out tons of them. He'll be happy to sell me another one. I do agree that being a "car guy" is a really expensive hobby but it is what it is. I did mention in my first post that I was seeking counsel from those among us who can sympathize. I know I'm not the only one.

Another "new EV owner update": There's a shopping center near me that has five or six free Level 2 chargers from a company called Volta. My gym is located there. I drove there last night to work out and thought I'd try my luck at one of the free chargers because why not? There was one charger left open but literally 10 seconds before I got there some guy in a Chevy Volt came from the other direction and sniped it. Ahhh!!!!! So this is what it's gonna be like. In the end I didn't really care... the car still had 220 miles of range left. I just wanted to try it out.

clutchied
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by clutchied » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:13 am

investor997 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:05 am
3funder wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:43 am
Indeed, and thanks for the reality check. I think I push my car philosophy because cars can be destroyed by factors over which we have no control (the elements, reckless drivers, etc). My bass guitar and my bowling ball are less susceptible to that kind of stuff. That said, you're still right about everyone valuing what they enjoy. OP -- sorry if I came off as judgmental.
OP here. Just to refresh, the car my Tesla replaced was a 2010 Porsche 911 that I hardly ever drove because it couldn't easily carry a mountain bike, which I ride multiple times per week. With the rear seats folded, the Model 3 can carry a bike quite easily so that problem is solved. It may be an expensive car but I plan to drive the wheels off of it. If it gets wrecked, well that's why I have insurance. Elon's tent factory in Fremont is cranking out tons of them. He'll be happy to sell me another one. I do agree that being a "car guy" is a really expensive hobby but it is what it is. I did mention in my first post that I was seeking counsel from those among us who can sympathize. I know I'm not the only one.

Another "new EV owner update": There's a shopping center near me that has five or six free Level 2 chargers from a company called Volta. My gym is located there. I drove there last night to work out and thought I'd try my luck at one of the free chargers because why not? There was one charger left open but literally 10 seconds before I got there some guy in a Chevy Volt came from the other direction and sniped it. Ahhh!!!!! So this is what it's gonna be like. In the end I didn't really care... the car still had 220 miles of range left. I just wanted to try it out.
You've now seen some of the "issues" surrounding EV's. The volt obviously doesn't need the plug... they can always go on gas. You didn't need the plug but what if you did? Some EV's are reliant on electricity only whereas there are a lot of PHEV's running around that can use the plugs to recharge their batteries but they are never required.

There are issues around not parking in EV spots when you're not charging. Staying the spots after charging has completed...

Then there's the Supercharger issues as well.


I hope you love the Model 3! I have an EV as well and maybe someday I'll pick up a tesla :)

investor997
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:20 am

clutchied wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:13 am
Then there's the Supercharger issues as well.
The two nearest Superchargers to me are notorious for being overloaded. They often have people waiting to use them after 11:00pm on a weeknight. This is what happens when you offer "free gas"... even people who pay $100K+ on a car can't turn that deal down :)

clutchied
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by clutchied » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:23 am

investor997 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:20 am
clutchied wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:13 am
Then there's the Supercharger issues as well.
The two nearest Superchargers to me are notorious for being overloaded. They often have people waiting to use them after 11:00pm on a weeknight. This is what happens when you offer "free gas"... even people who pay $100K+ on a car can't turn that deal down :)
lol! totally true.

I always charge at home, but I'm in a low use community so I tend to plug in just to show people that there are EV's out there.

There's a twitter account that has EV charging fights... not good.

The US is below what 3% EV uptake? Can you imagine what it will be @ 10%? We need more infrastructure.

alfaspider
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:27 am

investor997 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:20 am
clutchied wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:13 am
Then there's the Supercharger issues as well.
The two nearest Superchargers to me are notorious for being overloaded. They often have people waiting to use them after 11:00pm on a weeknight. This is what happens when you offer "free gas"... even people who pay $100K+ on a car can't turn that deal down :)
If you have a charger at home (and I wouldn't buy an EV without one), it doesn't really make sense to use the supercharger stations unless you are on a road trip. The marginal electricity savings can't really be worth it.

investor997
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:49 am

alfaspider wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:27 am
If you have a charger at home (and I wouldn't buy an EV without one), it doesn't really make sense to use the supercharger stations unless you are on a road trip. The marginal electricity savings can't really be worth it.
I agree completely. I'm working with an electrician to get a 240V/30A circuit added in my garage as we speak.

Home charging is critical. It's possible some of the Supercharger congestion is from Model 3s purchased by apartment dwellers who have no other practical way to charge up their cars. That's the thing with the Model 3 - it's so captivating and seductive upon a test drive that it can cause people to make irrational decisions. It did in my case, albeit perhaps to a lesser degree.

wrongfunds
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by wrongfunds » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:54 pm

For few days, I tried to talk myself out of buying one but finally I gave up and decided that once in a lifetime I will be completely insane and forget being cautious. About 3 more weeks until a white on white performance would empty my bank account. I dread that moment. Where is that smiley showing the stack of $1000 bills being lighted on fire?

FoolStreet
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:57 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:54 pm
For few days, I tried to talk myself out of buying one but finally I gave up and decided that once in a lifetime I will be completely insane and forget being cautious. About 3 more weeks until a white on white performance would empty my bank account. I dread that moment. Where is that smiley showing the stack of $1000 bills being lighted on fire?
Me too!!!! [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]



Here is the spreadsheet of crowd-sourced interest rates:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... P0LCE/edit

bloom2708
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:00 pm

Cycle wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:45 pm
We have a kid coming soon, he will never have a driver's license. Sounds like Car2Go.

I think we're probably 4 years away in Minneapolis from the abandonment of personal vehicles. I hope to get a few hundred dollars for our honda at that time. The scaling of the fleets will happen faster than the conversion to smart phones.
4 years? No cars in Minneapolis? :shock:

Hopefully somewhat "tongue in cheek". :wink:

20 maybe. People like their cars waaay too much (at this point).
"We are not here to please, but to provoke thoughtfulness." --Unknown Boglehead

investor997
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:18 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:54 pm
For few days, I tried to talk myself out of buying one but finally I gave up and decided that once in a lifetime I will be completely insane and forget being cautious. About 3 more weeks until a white on white performance would empty my bank account. I dread that moment. Where is that smiley showing the stack of $1000 bills being lighted on fire?
You will LOVE the car!

When I got in my Model 3 this morning I got a notification that my car was enabling a 30-day free trial of Enhanced Autopilot. Hmm.. This should be fun. One of the settings for "Navigate on Autopilot (Beta)" controls how fast the car changes lanes. Choices are: Disabled, Mild, Average and MAD MAX. If nothing else, I love Tesla's sense of humor.

Eazyndn
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Eazyndn » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:09 am

investor997 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:49 am
alfaspider wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:27 am
If you have a charger at home (and I wouldn't buy an EV without one), it doesn't really make sense to use the supercharger stations unless you are on a road trip. The marginal electricity savings can't really be worth it.
I agree completely. I'm working with an electrician to get a 240V/30A circuit added in my garage as we speak.

Home charging is critical. It's possible some of the Supercharger congestion is from Model 3s purchased by apartment dwellers who have no other practical way to charge up their cars. That's the thing with the Model 3 - it's so captivating and seductive upon a test drive that it can cause people to make irrational decisions. It did in my case, albeit perhaps to a lesser degree.

I have had my Model 3 for over 3 months now, and I only use my 220V 10-30 dryer outlet in my laundry room next to my garage. I only had to buy an adapter that Tesla sells. You might want to check if you have one of these. Mine was never used since we have a gas dryer. Keep enjoying the car!!

investor997
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:34 am

Eazyndn wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:09 am
I have had my Model 3 for over 3 months now, and I only use my 220V 10-30 dryer outlet in my laundry room next to my garage. I only had to buy an adapter that Tesla sells. You might want to check if you have one of these. Mine was never used since we have a gas dryer. Keep enjoying the car!!
Believe me I wish it were that easy... There's no electric hookup for the clothes dryer here. Gas only.

After owning the car for a week I seem to be getting by using the Chargepoint L2 chargers located in my office park. I think I lucked out in this regard with having them available so close to the building I work in. I can just drop the car off there for three hours and get ~63 miles of range added for $3.75.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:28 am

investor997 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:34 am
Eazyndn wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:09 am
I have had my Model 3 for over 3 months now, and I only use my 220V 10-30 dryer outlet in my laundry room next to my garage. I only had to buy an adapter that Tesla sells. You might want to check if you have one of these. Mine was never used since we have a gas dryer. Keep enjoying the car!!
Believe me I wish it were that easy... There's no electric hookup for the clothes dryer here. Gas only.

After owning the car for a week I seem to be getting by using the Chargepoint L2 chargers located in my office park. I think I lucked out in this regard with having them available so close to the building I work in. I can just drop the car off there for three hours and get ~63 miles of range added for $3.75.
My Prius gets 45-55 mpg. Gas in CA at costco is between $3.50-$4. So your cost and convenience factor sounds spot on.

NewtoBogle
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by NewtoBogle » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:43 pm

Got my delive date for the end of the month. I'm so excited!

FoolStreet
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:50 pm

NewtoBogle wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:43 pm
Got my delive date for the end of the month. I'm so excited!
What colors and configuration?

NewtoBogle
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by NewtoBogle » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:52 pm

MR, White, Aero, EAP

FoolStreet
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:21 pm

NewtoBogle wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:52 pm
MR, White, Aero, EAP
That is FAST for mid range. How exciting!

I don’t think the public really gets the implications of the lower cost mid range yet.

Have you considered any plug adapters or floor mats? I am spending time on plugshare and supercharge.info

NewtoBogle
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by NewtoBogle » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:36 pm

I waited in line so think that helped as well as ordered MR within like an hour of the release of it.

I already have all weather mats (Tesla), HD screen protector (abstract ocean), Aero wheel kit (Tesla), garden hose hanger for UMC cable hanging (home depot), kenriko matte console wrap (https://amzn.to/2NbWsft). Think I have all accessories I need. I got 6 months free supercharging, wish it wasn't coming in winter tho as less likely to use it.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:44 pm

NewtoBogle wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:36 pm
I waited in line so think that helped as well as ordered MR within like an hour of the release of it.

I already have all weather mats (Tesla), HD screen protector (abstract ocean), Aero wheel kit (Tesla), garden hose hanger for UMC cable hanging (home depot), kenriko matte console wrap (https://amzn.to/2NbWsft). Think I have all accessories I need. I got 6 months free supercharging, wish it wasn't coming in winter tho as less likely to use it.
Don’t forget a USB for the dashcam.

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Halfvolley
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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Halfvolley » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 pm

I ordered a MR, Metallic Silver, Black, Aero, AP on October 28. I'm crossing my fingers for a delivery date before year end. In fact, I'm so worried about missing the federal tax credit cutoff that I've been hounding my Owner Advisor to find me an unmatched LR RWD that I can switch to for a quicker delivery.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by randomguy » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:01 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:00 pm
Cycle wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:45 pm
We have a kid coming soon, he will never have a driver's license. Sounds like Car2Go.

I think we're probably 4 years away in Minneapolis from the abandonment of personal vehicles. I hope to get a few hundred dollars for our honda at that time. The scaling of the fleets will happen faster than the conversion to smart phones.
4 years? No cars in Minneapolis? :shock:

Hopefully somewhat "tongue in cheek". :wink:

20 maybe. People like their cars waaay too much (at this point).

Skip no cars. I bet in 4 years Minneapolis (and every other city in the US) still has 95%+ of their cars. I mean even if you could buy a self driving car today (and you can't) it would take a long time for it to deploy. Ramping production up fast isn't easy. And realistically we are probably still a decade off from the true self driving car where you can just put in any destination sit down and end up there. Yes we are 99% of the way there. The last 1% though is hard. Some small regions will get things sooner (waymo will have their fleet running in well defined areas really soon now) but there is a big gap between that and replacing half the taxi's and ubers in NYC.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by randomguy » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:03 pm

Halfvolley wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 pm
I ordered a MR, Metallic Silver, Black, Aero, AP on October 28. I'm crossing my fingers for a delivery date before year end. In fact, I'm so worried about missing the federal tax credit cutoff that I've been hounding my Owner Advisor to find me an unmatched LR RWD that I can switch to for a quicker delivery.
Curious to see what the depreciation on teslas (and other EVs) is like with the credits going away. So far the tax credit hasn't helped buyers (sure the car is cheap but when they go to sell it the depreciation accounts for it) but that might change when the new car price goes up 7500 bucks.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Halfvolley » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:14 pm

randomguy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:03 pm
Halfvolley wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 pm
I ordered a MR, Metallic Silver, Black, Aero, AP on October 28. I'm crossing my fingers for a delivery date before year end. In fact, I'm so worried about missing the federal tax credit cutoff that I've been hounding my Owner Advisor to find me an unmatched LR RWD that I can switch to for a quicker delivery.
Curious to see what the depreciation on teslas (and other EVs) is like with the credits going away. So far the tax credit hasn't helped buyers (sure the car is cheap but when they go to sell it the depreciation accounts for it) but that might change when the new car price goes up 7500 bucks.
The Leaf market tanked in Georgia when the 5k state tax credit went away. I leased a 2015 Leaf SV for ~7k over two years with a residual of ~13k. At the end of the two years, they were so desperate not to take it back they sold it me for 7k (including tax/tag/title).

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:16 pm

Halfvolley wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 pm
I ordered a MR, Metallic Silver, Black, Aero, AP on October 28. I'm crossing my fingers for a delivery date before year end. In fact, I'm so worried about missing the federal tax credit cutoff that I've been hounding my Owner Advisor to find me an unmatched LR RWD that I can switch to for a quicker delivery.
Do you have a Tesla store nearby?

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Halfvolley » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:24 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:16 pm
Halfvolley wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 pm
I ordered a MR, Metallic Silver, Black, Aero, AP on October 28. I'm crossing my fingers for a delivery date before year end. In fact, I'm so worried about missing the federal tax credit cutoff that I've been hounding my Owner Advisor to find me an unmatched LR RWD that I can switch to for a quicker delivery.
Do you have a Tesla store nearby?
Yes, I've been working with an Owner Advisor at my local store.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by FoolStreet » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:27 pm

investor997 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:10 pm
OP here again. Here's the Day #3 report... Maybe I should turn this into a running blog.

I experienced my first use of a public charging station yesterday. My office park has several Chargepoint Level 2 chargers available. I signed up for a Chargepoint account ahead of time and requested an RFID tag from them which came in the mail last week. The chargers near me cost $1.25/hr for the first four hours. Over 1h:36m, my car sucked down 9.12 kWh of juice for which I was billed $2.01. Range-wise I can't remember exactly how much was added but I believe it was something like 35 miles, so easy math tells me if I were driving a car that got 35mpg, it was like I just paid $2.01 for a gallon of gas. 91 octane premium fuel is currently about $4/gal here in Orange County. And there isn't a 35mpg car anywhere that can keep up with this thing in a straight line.

I also enabled Lane Departure Warning in the vehicle settings. I didn't RTFM and just assumed it'd beep at me if I did something as heinous as try to make a lane change without using the turn signals. Instead it vibrates the steering wheel. Kinda freaked me out at first, thinking something was going wrong. Thankfully that's not the case.

Wait. You didn’t use Premium electrons???

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:52 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:27 pm
investor997 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:10 pm
OP here again. Here's the Day #3 report... Maybe I should turn this into a running blog.

I experienced my first use of a public charging station yesterday. My office park has several Chargepoint Level 2 chargers available. I signed up for a Chargepoint account ahead of time and requested an RFID tag from them which came in the mail last week. The chargers near me cost $1.25/hr for the first four hours. Over 1h:36m, my car sucked down 9.12 kWh of juice for which I was billed $2.01. Range-wise I can't remember exactly how much was added but I believe it was something like 35 miles, so easy math tells me if I were driving a car that got 35mpg, it was like I just paid $2.01 for a gallon of gas. 91 octane premium fuel is currently about $4/gal here in Orange County. And there isn't a 35mpg car anywhere that can keep up with this thing in a straight line.

I also enabled Lane Departure Warning in the vehicle settings. I didn't RTFM and just assumed it'd beep at me if I did something as heinous as try to make a lane change without using the turn signals. Instead it vibrates the steering wheel. Kinda freaked me out at first, thinking something was going wrong. Thankfully that's not the case.

Wait. You didn’t use Premium electrons???
This is California. ALL electricity is premium here.... or at least it's sold at a premium!

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:00 pm

investor997 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:01 pm
Strummer wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:48 am
Chargepoint also has an iPhone app that allows you to use your phone, a la Apple Pay, to activate a charger. Saves me from having to carry their RFID tag.

Enjoy the car! I agree that the long-range version has ample power and the Performance version is an unnecessary luxury, but I'm glad I sprung for autopilot. Traffic aware cruise control is a great tool in stop-and-go traffic, and I find long freeway trips are made much easier with autopilot.
A friend of mine told me to get the RFID tag. He says he's had instances of trying to use the Chargepoint app in an underground garage where his cellphone couldn't get reception. It didn't cost anything to request one, so...

Day 4: I decided to drive my '04 Toyota 4Runner to work today. It was in need of some exercise. I cannot describe just how ancient and unrefined it feels compared to the Tesla. I'd initially not planned to sell it because I like having it around - it's reliable, it doesn't depreciate at all and it's nice to have a camping/offroading/adventure vehicle but at this point, I just don't see it getting used much anymore, especially since the Tesla can easily carry my mountain bike inside with the seats folded.
If you have an iPhone, the Apple Pay integration doesn't use the cellular network and just is another RFID card as far as ChargePoint is concerned.

When I bought my Model S, I kept my 4Runner for the first year. I drove it occasionally to make sure it wouldn't remain stagnant and took it on a ski trip as "the beater car" (only 8 years old). With all that, I still only put 1,200 miles on it that year. Sold it and rented/borrowed a vehicle only twice since (three years) - both times simply because I needed to tow a trailer. I've thought about adding a hitch to my S. One of my friends added one to his 3 and easily pulls his jetski with his 3.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by 6miths » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:23 am

I went to the Tesla store last week to say goodbye to my Model 3. Our new government pulled the 12k subsidy and psychologically I just can't swallow paying that much more. I could have received the rebate if I had taken delivery of the premium model in June but didn't need all of the features so waited and then they cancelled it. Now have to wait 3-4 years for the next election. :(
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by NewtoBogle » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:28 am

6miths wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:23 am
I went to the Tesla store last week to say goodbye to my Model 3. Our new government pulled the 12k subsidy and psychologically I just can't swallow paying that much more. I could have received the rebate if I had taken delivery of the premium model in June but didn't need all of the features so waited and then they cancelled it. Now have to wait 3-4 years for the next election. :(
Sorry, I understand. Smart financial move. I would have done the same if the federal rebate had been pulled, I had waited in line and was hoping for standard battery. I jumped on the MR release so I could get the $7500 before it was cut in half (I'm lucky to have a state rebate too). There's some talk in US about the federal incentive being changed because as it is now it will incentivize people to buy non US built EVs as Chevy and Tesla will be more phasing out their eligibility. We'll see.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:44 am

NewtoBogle wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:52 pm
MR, White, Aero, EAP
Wow!!! I never thought Tesla would be able to deliver medium range that quickly! I mean I have yet even to see even a single YouTube video on MR Model 3 implying that not even a single specimen exists today.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by NewtoBogle » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:47 am


Wow!!! I never thought Tesla would be able to deliver medium range that quickly! I mean I have yet even to see even a single YouTube video on MR Model 3 implying that not even a single specimen exists today.
There have been a handful of deliveries if you are following along closely. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-3167961 Has pix showing delivered car and screen showing it's a MR.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Valuethinker » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:57 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:00 pm
Cycle wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:45 pm
We have a kid coming soon, he will never have a driver's license. Sounds like Car2Go.

I think we're probably 4 years away in Minneapolis from the abandonment of personal vehicles. I hope to get a few hundred dollars for our honda at that time. The scaling of the fleets will happen faster than the conversion to smart phones.
4 years? No cars in Minneapolis? :shock:

Hopefully somewhat "tongue in cheek". :wink:

20 maybe. People like their cars waaay too much (at this point).
They may in Minneapolis.

But do they in New York City? Los Angeles? Silicon Valley?

There are a bunch of places on this planet where the congestion costs of driving have risen to a point where driving is just a pain, I think? Where car ownership is just another fixed cost -- and in any case we lease our cars already "usership not ownership".

Granted if you are in Djakarta or Bangkok that simply means you put tvs, fridges & sanitary facilities in your car - you're going to be spending a lot of time in them. So it appears, so far, there's not an absolute limit to what people will bear in terms of time congestion costs.

But autonomous vehicles offer the possibility of say 20% higher throughput for a given roadspace. It might be more than that, because accidents, even minor ones, are caused mostly by human error and lead to traffic snarls.

So we have Tokyo. Ile de France (gr Paris). Greater London. Los Angeles. The Ruhr Valley. Atlanta etc. etc.

Where there's a need there will be adoption. And I think those places will go for this technology, because they need to move more cars.

They will then find that in lowering the time cost of travel (you can do something else whilst the car drives) that you increase the demand even *further*. At which point, things will start to get really serious -- for example employers might be forced to move to a 4 day week (in principle that would reduce commuter traffic by 20%).

I don't have a good feel of how far we are away from that. It seems like a genuinely hard problem - truly autonomous driving. The intervening stages are actually *more* dangerous because they encourage driver inattention.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Valuethinker » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:01 am

clutchied wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:23 am


The US is below what 3% EV uptake? Can you imagine what it will be @ 10%? We need more infrastructure.
It depends when people charge their cars. At 4 am, the grid is roughly say 40% as busy as it is at 430 pm on a summer's day. If we sit all day in the company parking lot, with a solar panel shade above our car, that in principle doesn't use the distribution network.

There are some big numbers out there for the necessary investment, but it may not play out that way.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by Valuethinker » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:08 am

3funder wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:10 pm
A car is a hunk of metal and/or fiberglass that loses value over time. Why would you want to spend $75,000 on one? When I was 12, my father was approximately your age and had a similar amount of money saved. He worked in high finance (not on Wall Street or at a brokerage firm) and had a very bright future ahead of him re: credentials and job performance. One day, I asked him why he didn't drive a Mercedes like some of my friends' parents. His response: "Cars aren't important to me, and I'd rather retire comfortably." Don't waste your hard-earned money on something that could be destroyed by a reckless driver approaching you from the opposite direction. There. I've convinced you. If I haven't, I'm a huge failure.
I would tend to agree with you.

But in London the average family home is probably over £750k - let's say $1.1m - 2x and 3x that is hardly uncommon. And in that world, people drive cars that cost $75k - BMWs, Mercedes, Land Rover etc. And it's not like driving in London is ever a pleasure - imagine New York City with twisty narrow streets.

So say 7-8% of the value of the average home. Not uncommon (I wouldn't say "average" -- my guess is, new, that's around £20-25k or about 4% of value).

People care about what metal they drive. Given that the average standard of equipment, comfort and safety of *all* cars is so far ahead of where they were 30 years ago, I would say that's about aspiration. Remember that the average American suburban home has a fitted kitchen, a dryer, air conditioning - they all look pretty much the same - we have few Lords living in castles these days, and few of us have live in servants. It's hard to compete on your house, and you can't take the house with you to work or to social events.

Primates compete socially for status. That's true of all species of primates. We just happen to be a nearly hairless primate. We haven't lost the urge to socially compete.

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Re: Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3

Post by clutchied » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:50 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:01 am
clutchied wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:23 am


The US is below what 3% EV uptake? Can you imagine what it will be @ 10%? We need more infrastructure.
It depends when people charge their cars. At 4 am, the grid is roughly say 40% as busy as it is at 430 pm on a summer's day. If we sit all day in the company parking lot, with a solar panel shade above our car, that in principle doesn't use the distribution network.

There are some big numbers out there for the necessary investment, but it may not play out that way.
I agree with you in principle but I think the reality of it will look different.

I would like to direct you to the pictures and fights popping up at superchargers in California because they are too busy.

I think it's probably going to involve more than people think to get the infrastructure in place.

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